ROM 5 - Mew2King vs Unknown522

[Hamek]

Not defending or justifying Unknown's actions at all here but why is everyone apparently forgetting that verbal assault / harassment / etc. are also against the law? I know someone who won a harassment lawsuit for a lot less than someone yelling in his ear, continually smack-talking said person after repeated requests to stop, and planning to provoke said person into violence again.

I don't know either of these guys, not trying to take sides at all, but there've been a bunch of posts that basically amounted to, "Yeah Inui's a **** but Unknown BROKE THE LAW," and... well, technically Inui could also be argued to have done so.

Real talk though this is like a Judge Judy ep

That argument would hold water had unknown not explicitly stated he couldn't hear what Inui was saying, how can it be assault if he doesn't know what he's saying (of course, I haven't heard what he said, I'm going off of unknown's post, I'm also unsure of the letter of the law, but I don't think having a debate on that would be all that fruitful). Also since I'm unsure of what Inui actually said, if he was just cheering (which iirc is what he said he was doing, and Unknown didn't say that Inui wasn't), that wouldn't really be verbal assault. I also don't see how it could be harassment for yelling too loudly at a loud event.

I've also seen many more post saying something along the posts of "who cares, it's inui" (You don't seem to be saying that but I didn't say that Inui was being a ****), and my post was mainly directed at those people.

 

[Gea]

Real talk though this is like a Judge Judy ep

 

[Alphicans]

^ahahaha

Just to add on, I think banning unknown only encourages Inui's behaviour. I am sure from his perspective he's a "successful troll."

 

[MasterShake]

Dang so if Unknowns banned.

Then Inui should def be banned too.

Cause like...it appears he was instigating mad hard at this and past events. Seems like if he wasn't there doing that ****, these altercations would NOT have happened.

2 part problem, Inui's behavior is also not acceptable.

 

[t3h Icy]

I guess he's still salty you 3 stocked his Sheik with Pichu in tournament or whatever and it invalidates him as a person.

looooooooool!

 

[Tarv]

...There's something different about unknown in that picture. Just can't quite put my finger on it.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

+1 internet to you

 

[FerrishTheFish]

I once choked a guy in middle school who harassed me with insults for months. I got punished for choking by the school with 2-week suspension (prob should have been expelled, tbh), he got punished for harassment by me with choking. Point is, both of us accepted our respective punishments, learned our respective lessons, and nothing like that happened between us again.

By all means, ban Unknown. His actions are ban-worthy, and a ban might teach him a lesson about self-conduct and that violence is not ok (aside from literally defending oneself from a physical aggressor, of course). Possibly already has taught him a lesson, judging from his posts, but future tournaments will tell us for sure.

Inui seems to have not learned his lesson. I think it should be noted that Inui intended to provoke a physical response--i.e., intentionally tried to disrupt an event--and apparently plans to do it again. His actions were technically just barely within the rules (to my understanding), but his intent to disrupt should be taken more seriously. It may not be black-and-white how to handle it, but I think the answer is simple here: leave it up to the TO. Let the TO evaluate the risk vs. reward of allowing Inui to attend (and it certainly sounds like there is mucho risk and none-o reward).

If you truly believe Unknown will try to disrupt your tournament and you feel you lack the ability to prevent that, ban him. If you truly believe Inui will try to disrupt your tournament and you feel you lack the ability to prevent that, ban him. Leave it up to the TO. It's their event, they get to decide who attends, they get to decide who they have to puppy-guard and who they have to take responsibility for, and nobody else gets to complain about it.

 

[Gea]

...There's something different about unknown in that picture. Just can't quite put my finger on it.

Looks fine to me.

 

[SillyGoose]

wtf at people equating instigation with assault and saying either both should be banned or neither

Unknown is a phenomenal player, and he could have made a serious splash at Apex, but he brought this upon himself and he deserves it

Inui, despite apparently being a cocky ******, should not be punished for that

 

[tarheeljks]

wtf at people equating instigation with assault and saying either both should be banned or neither

Unknown is a phenomenal player, and he could have made a serious splash at Apex, but he brought this upon himself and he deserves it

Inui, despite apparently being a cocky phagot, should not be punished for that

-- you don't have to equate them to believe that both should be banned (or neither i guess)
-- i've never agreed with the whole sticks and stones bit that underlies the idea physical confrontation crosses a line that verbal assault merely toes


edit: this is even more true in a scenario where the person being accosted verbally can't simply remove himself from the situation. no one should interpret any of this as a defense of unknown lashing out. point is that i strongly disagree w/the idea that inui isn't deserving of punishment (and that more generally you are within your rights to be verbally abusive). at the very least he directly interfered with a player during a match after being requested not to do so numerous times. that is worthy of punishment

edit2: also you're not punishing inui for unknown being unable to maintain his composure. you're punishing him for behaving inappropriately in a way that was detrimental to the tournament and disrespectful to unknown. if unknown had tuned him out he should still be punished and i'd bet that more people would be in favor of it it had the events transpired that way. as is inui can play the victim card, which is unfortunate when he was the catalyst of these actions.

 

[CanISmash]

The best metaphor to describe this situation in my opinion is children holding their hands in front of your face, waving, yet taunting "I'm not touching you" so it must be okay? wrong.

What we have here is an undisciplined child, and a frustrated schoolmate.

 

[Yung Mei]

Basically, ^^^

youre damn right inui is a ****ing child

 

[Linguini]

Yo who got bodied????

Edit: This is a good enough forum for me to say that no one is ready for my falco, that ***** broken as fuhhh

 

[BigWenz]

Just as an fyi,
Assault = threatening to inflict bodily harm
Battery = The actual action that inflicts bodily harm. (I.e the act of choking Inui out like the little ***** he is) or (Screaming so loudly in someones ear that it causes them physical pain.)

Anyone who thinks Inui did nothing wrong is a huge ****ing hypocrite. Unknown shouldn't have choked him out but Inui had no business screaming in right in his ear, causing him physical pain. If your gonna ban unknown for choking inui out, then you have to ban Inui for screaming so loudly and close to his ear, both would be considered acts of battery as both actions inflict bodily harm.

 

[Lovage]

like i posted on inui's facebook, this is just another situation where 2 ppl did absolutely nothing wrong to each other and it's all a big misunderstanding


buncha vultures up in here!! unknown keeps it REAL

 

[Hylian]

Yes. Regarding assault; I could get him charged with it for causing me damage

People sorry I should rephrase that. Cuz what I meant to say was that he could've been charges before choking him. Like of I didn't choke him it could've stood like that. Obv I wouldn't but it's true

Also lol @ the brawl scene

Did he physically damage your ears? Did you have to go to the doctor? If you really think you could have charged him with anything successfully you don't know much about law. Your reaction was childish and trying to justify yourself in silly ways doesn't help.

I've been in the exact situation you were in several times. One of them was even recorded:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik2G9i2OHzY

When he screamed, the entire venue got quiet because he screamed so loudly. He was less than a foot away from me, and it physically made me jump every time he did. I very much doubt(especially since I was watching the stream) that inui was anywhere near that loud. I didn't hold a grudge against MH for that, I actually laughed about it and just joked about it and gave him a hard time and we are still friends. Feeling the need to physically harm someone because they are heckling you over a game is absurd. I'm glad you realize this and say you shouldn't have done this, but you really shouldn't make posts like the ones above.

I also hate heckling. At whobo a certain player was heckling someone during their tournament match by saying his name loudly right beside him and trying to distract him. I felt like this wasn't just **** talking and it wasn't right since he was trying to distract him so I asked them to stop. They didn't so I got the TO and the TO made them stop. Something like that should have happened in this situation and I recommend you pausing the game and asking the TO to come over if you feel like someone is trying to make you lose by distracting you. You don't have to take my advice but just putting it out there.


Trash talk happens all the time in the FGC. I don't particularly like it, and I especially hate when people try to distract the players but it happens and people in general should expect things like this to happen. If anyone at a tournament feels harassed for any reason they should talk to the TO about it. It's a shame situations like this happen, but they do and as a community we should just put it behind us and use it as a learning experience. I won't say if the players involved deserve punishment or not because that's not my decision and really none of my business.

 

[Lovage]

btw, i wanna say that for the record, this particular smashboards hazing session is like 1/50th as entertaining as pb&j vs. the world was back in 2010. now THAT was some michaeljacksoneatingpopcorn.gif hilarious roasting.

 

[Dark Hart]

Callouts aren't what they used to be

 

[unknown522]

I see you hylian

@ lovage: it isnt as big. Maybe if I had punched him, things would be more entertaining for the boards. Lol

 

[-RedShadow]

btw, i wanna say that for the record, this particular smashboards hazing session is like 1/50th as entertaining as pb&j vs. the world was back in 2010. now THAT was some michaeljacksoneatingpopcorn.gif hilarious roasting.

I remember reading through some threads about that awhile back. Gold.

 

[Battlecow]

unknown for best fox 2012

if ryan could choke battle cow then my life would be complete

Real talk, I could take him

srsly tho please don't hurt me

 

[Diversity]

This is Smash Bros, a game in which a ****ing electric rat can fight a princess that transforms into a ninja. It's supposed to be fun and nonsensical. This isn't supposed to be so ****ing serious that you have this amount of trash talking and threatening going on. Get a grip everyone.

Why is this thread still open? It's embarrassing and it's a mess.

 

[Bones0]

1. Where was the TO during all of this? I think I remember reading someone say that the TO came over and asked Inui to stop. If he didn't stop, he should have been ejected from the venue immediately.

2. This is just another reason eSports need to grow up and do away with heckling or shouting for the sole intention of disturbing or demoralizing competitors. It is interfering with the integrity of the competition, and nothing good comes from it. You can get just as much hype with cheering. The insults and disruptions by yelling super loud are unnecessary.

3. This:

Was Inui physically hurt at all?

It seems like, in this case, what unknown did was a reaction of severe aggravation, which is understandable* given what Inui was doing, and unknown only did this to emphasize his frustration and annoyance towards Inui. Whether or not unknown intended to actually hurt Inui is very important.

Meanwhile, what Inui did simply had malicious intends all-around, but he was able to exercise this in a way that allowed him to avoid being punished. People don't realize how much of a problem this is until they go and moderate a forum, haha

Ultimately, my point is the severe differences of intend vs action. I think, generally, we need to consider ones intent much more heavily in our decisions. Unknown already made his intent pretty clear, this is more referring to Inui and how what he did way also not acceptable behavior.

If Inui was legitimately concerned of his safety, Unknown's ban would be completely understandable. However, Inui seems more amused by the situation and seems almost pleased with himself, implying his aggravation was very intentional. I believe both players deserve their chance to play at Apex 2013, but TOs should make it a point to keep these two separated by all means. I know Unknown is intelligent, he won't approach or mess with Inui on a whim. It's inui who will likely be the cause of further issues between these two.

Give them another chance with a thin ice policy, whoever initiates further discrepancies will receive punishment while the other will receive equal or greater punishment if they choose reciprocate the actions.

For what I mention above, consider this quote:


(*note that understandable =/= justified)

 

[CableCho57]

tl;dr

T.O.'s need to man up and take charge of situations like this one and the rom fiasco

 

[Shimesaba]

^This is exactly why more tournaments should be run by Juggleguy.

Also how is that Hylian v.s. MikeHaze match for real? At a certain point it becomes morally questionable to -not- put the guy in a chokehold.

 

[Strong Badam]

I'm an English person who competes continentally, but the xenophobia is always appreciated.

how the **** was I being xenophobic when I didn't even know where you were from? you're only giving people more reason to dislike you further.

 

[Kink-Link5]

how the **** was I being xenophobic when I didn't even know where you were from?

I think it was just regarding the "I don't know/haven't heard of you so why should I care about your ramblings" thing, could be easily taken as "My ignorance of others stands as grounds to talk down to them."

Xenophobic isn't quite the word for it, but there isn't any word really close enough to fit that description.

 

[The Star King]

btw, i wanna say that for the record, this particular smashboards hazing session is like 1/50th as entertaining as pb&j vs. the world was back in 2010. now THAT was some michaeljacksoneatingpopcorn.gif hilarious roasting.

Yo what about the DJ Nintendo thread?

 

[The___cheese]

Ths is actually my first time hearing about this Inui creature, since I mostly ignore non-CA smash.

Anyone acting like this thing that calls itself Inui hasn't done anything wrong here is crazy.

People always act like they would never resort to violence no matter what happens, but rarely seem to understand the scenarios where nothing else works.

The fact that Inui is doing this on purpose should show people the nature of said creature.
You really shouldn't be allowing such a being at your events.

 

[michael_li]

what happened?? ryan ford get banned shieeee. inui get punched out???!! better have knocked that loser out. when pple ask u in particular nicely to shut da **** up after multiple times when you shout in their ear point blank and you dont stop. well ****** theres a problem and if it aint solved within the next 5 seconds. you gonna get hurt or jumped inui beefed on a personal lvl, it aint high school or elementary anymore ya fking clown.

rmber they r playing with money on the line. this is actually gambling, so theres a certain degree of maturity and profesionalism involved or else youll get dealt in some way :/

also TO is partially to blame too
u cant stand fr that **** if ur a TO. shouldve removed the person harassing ryan ford

it goes without sayin..

its all fun and games till somebody gets hurt

 

[SillyGoose]

btw, i wanna say that for the record, this particular smashboards hazing session is like 1/50th as entertaining as pb&j vs. the world was back in 2010. now THAT was some michaeljacksoneatingpopcorn.gif hilarious roasting.

link anyone?

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

This thread is a trainwreck.

You guys are now blaming the TOs.

When a TO decides to run a tournament, they do it to grow and foster the community, with little to no financial incentive, but all the risks. They commit to a serious and extremely time-intensive project, for the simple joy of seeing their friends have fun.

A TO is not a

Bouncer
Babysitter
or Nanny

TOs cannot control every little interaction between participants, and it is up to the players to treat each other with respect. There are player responsibilities too, and though this community is (very) fond of throwing everything on the shoulder of the TOs (which we have too few of as it is) and none on the "star"/"known" players, "acting like a decent human being" is among them. Its every players duty to make the TOs job as painless as possible, and the particular players in question are notorious for doing anything but that. Now that we've seen multiple controversies, at different events, with different TOs, all surrounding the same few guys, maybe its high time we looked at the people involved, and not the guy trying to run a smash brothers tournament for his friends.

The two individuals in question are long-standing members in the community, and have gone to dozens, possibly hundreds of tournaments. One is 22, the other is 24. Two grown *** men. We've been told they will learn from this and next time will be better. Learn from what exactly? Learn to not chokeslam people? Learn to not heckle and instigate a reaction? And to do it in front of a live camera, an active mic, and hundreds if not thousands of concurrent viewers? Where in their adult or smash life has that ever been acceptable?

No, there is no disconnect. Its not a lesson learned. It ought to have been plainly obvious, and frankly I think it was and they did it anyway. I'm confident they'd do it again. Hell, they said as much. And then we have stuff like this:

I hope he's willing to bet his life on it

Promising and threatening another calamity.

Naw

naw

**** that.

This house cannot hold, and this family must grow. With or without them.

------------
------------

[footnote: I ****ing love Ryan. I think hes one of the most helpful, knowledgable, and hard-working members in this community. I talked to him at length at RoM 5, and I truly enjoy his company. We ate together.

Also at RoM, I was in a friendly rotation with Inui and a few others. It was great fun. We shared a few jokes, had some good matches, and all in all, enjoyed the game of Super Smash Brothers Melee with one another (thats what this is all about, right?). I don't hold a personal grudge against him in the least.

But every time I let personal connections cloud my judgment, I think about what it'd be like in the TO's shoes. To deal with all this bull**** from guys who know better when you already have enough stress as it is. I think about what it'd be like if they had done this at my tournament and the answer becomes clear. And I say that with the heaviest of hearts]

 

[unknown522]

I feel ya blur

Still though. If he's willing to run his mouth and not get in **** for it. I should be able to as well.

 

[michael_li]

ha straight up g
confused though why didnt the TO help you?? i dont get it yo!

ehh this is like bullying
rmber columbine or virginia tech ? those guys got bullied and one day they snapped cuz the TO didnt stop thd harassment lolol

 

[-ACE-]

inui was still able to continue talking **** while unknown had his hand(s) on him. Doesn't sound like unknown was trying to hurt him that badly.

unknown just pay a scrub to do it next time no one wants that fox banned.

 

[Bob Money]

Even though im loud and cheer for my people, i understand the difference between being a decent human being and gutter trash. Inui screaming or tauntung in unknowns ear when hes us right next to him is disgusting gutter trash.

Even though I am quite animate about melee, i understand the difference between being a professional and attempting to block things out even if the TO hasn't done it (in which case i would not play the match until the TO has done it even if I got DQ'ed. This is all within reasonable bounds.) I would not grab another human being /guttertrash by the throat unless they threatened my life or my family/friends because that would make me guttertrash

stay classy guys.

#noel brown

edit fixed that thing hylian, what MH did is gutter though.

 

[Hylian]

That wasn't inui who screamed in my ear. I wasn't at this event.

 

[Froggy]

Just as an fyi,
Assault = threatening to inflict bodily harm
Battery = The actual action that inflicts bodily harm. (I.e the act of choking Inui out like the little ***** he is) or (Screaming so loudly in someones ear that it causes them physical pain.)

Anyone who thinks Inui did nothing wrong is a huge ****ing hypocrite. Unknown shouldn't have choked him out but Inui had no business screaming in right in his ear, causing him physical pain. If your gonna ban unknown for choking inui out, then you have to ban Inui for screaming so loudly and close to his ear, both would be considered acts of battery as both actions inflict bodily harm.

Nah, the two actions are not equal.

Unknown522 should be banned, I think they should consider banning him from Smashboards to be honest, we don't need some hoodlum attacking people in real life and then acting like a **** about it online.

Inui shouldn't be banned from Apex, just tell him not to do it again.

 

[KrazyKnux]

Nah, the two actions are not equal.

Unknown522 should be banned, I think they should consider banning him from Smashboards to be honest, we don't need some hoodlum attacking people in real life and then acting like a **** about it online.

Inui shouldn't be banned from Apex, just tell him not to do it again.

lol but unknown's actions have nothing to do with smashboards. Why would they ban him here? XD