Re-discussing a ledge grab limit

[Superspright]

It only takes her like 3-4 frames to get to the ledge after the hitbox comes out. I am going to say this doesn't work...

 

[Mew2King]

ignore smashboards double posted

 

[Mew2King]

]can i pls put laser and bair limits on my competition too? i think it's so boring and overpowered and would make my life easier to do that. pleeeease x.x

just auto lose them if they shoot too many lasers my game and watch can't powershield them enough or do anything

while we're at it some people only like battlefield so let's cater to only them and ban all the other stages!!

guys guys there's only 1 thing to do we have to ban sheik and jigglypuff or make me lose by an arbitrary number for no reason like brawlers do

or you can ban me from tourneys your choice

how dare i play the way i feel confortable even tho most all my chars play like this

 

[Theftz22]

You're such a drama queen m2k. At least input something real into the discussion other than venting. Hax raises real concerns, any thoughts on that?

 

[Mew2King]

real concerns about my skill gap from you all at the ledge? cuz that's all it is tbh. All this does is nerf my playing style. I hope there becomes a ledge grab limit (cliffhangers) just so i can laugh about how bad and much of a crybaby everyone is. You can't plank puff btw, and puff's planking LEAGUES better than sheiks is. It's not even close actually. Puff has to be shinespiked 3 times to die. Sheik once. You can't gimp puff. When puff gets the stock lead it's really easy for her. But only I will abuse this.

 

[VA]

i like m2k using this tactic. what is with people banning **** they can't deal with? it's not overpowered. enjoy the challenge of overcoming a powerful and well used strategy. that's what this game is about...

i can say this freely without ever having played against it ofc.

 

[michael_li]

U play gay

 

[Cactuar]

I don't really care about how much time you spend on the ledge. I know that it's because you're scared to fight people on stage, especially when the other players in the top5 are all far superior to you there. You use the tools you have, and your play on the ledge is the only tool that is better than any other top player. Top level Falco by default has nullified your advantages in combo game and crouch cancel play, and you've been dropping off the map in neutral game development.

When I see you sit on the ledge, hoping the opponent will come to you, it just makes me sad. While you might get a ton of gimps out of it vs lower level opponents and a few here and there vs better players, you're really just gimping yourself in the long run.

 

[VA]

^ wow burn.

 

[michael_li]

OhhhhhhhhhhhggggggggHHHGGHGGHHHGHHHHHHH

SHOTS FIYAAA"d

 

[gravy]

Once again, I did not intend to start a flame war, nor single out M2k. Lets try to keep it civilized, this is just a discussion, and we are all friends.

 

[Hax]

YO **** M2K

 

[michael_li]

I aint yo friend **** you !!!!!! Riot riot RIOT!!!

WANNA PLANK *****?? Ill unplug ur controller see if u can plank

 

[VA]

re peach bomber: a great trick to stall matches on courses like Fourside, as many characters can't get to you and you can use this to cheaply win timed matches that you're winning. Your opponent probably won't like it much though.

(M2k, 2001, p. whatever)

 

[standardtoaster]

loooool it all started way back then

 

[Ripple]

dash pivot ledge grab guys.

is the answer to someone ledge stalling guys

 

[t3chn0g0at]

ITT: a bunch of people that can't beat M2K.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

You're kidding right? I can auto snap the ledge with Marth way over 100 times in under 8 minutes in brawl dude. You're telling me Sheik can't grab the ledge 100+ times in 8 minutes in melee? I'm either seriously amazing at melee and my horrible play speed is godlike or you're BAD. Or blatant sarcasm that I missed.

im just never re grabbing the ledge with falco so i wouldnt know but 100 times in 8min seems like a **** ton dude
and im not going anywhere near that ledge any way
U CAN HAVE YOUR LEDGE

 

[BTmoney]

real concerns about my skill gap from you all at the ledge?

Lol!

I know that it's because you're scared to fight people on stage, especially when the other players in the top5 are all far superior to you there.

I believe that is blatantly untrue. I wonder how much you mean that actually.

 

[RockinRudy]

Another "I get owned by this technique thread".​

You QQ about this because another person is using a advance technique that's in the game. ​

Were not robots and we don't use the edge JUST for recovering and grabbing on. Some say "It's the way the game was meant to be played" ***** please. Get your head in the game.​

We use the game physics and possibilities to it's full potential.​

No. It's not cheating or "Cheap" or "Gay". Cheating is a serious bug or glitch like the IC freeze glitch and it gets abused or Legit SRS cheat codes. *Swaps out melee disk while opponents not looking loads up Cheat codez actionreplayzzzzz* *put melee back in* "KAY LETS PLAY HOPE YOU DIDN'T SEE WUT I DID LUL I'M SO PRO!111!!1111111oneoneoneoneoneone!!!11111one!!!111". This was NOT intentional by the programmers.​

Your playing with a smart opponent.​

Nothing should be changed.​

Learn to counter it or improve your game so it won't happen.​

​

 

[Theftz22]

real concerns about my skill gap from you all at the ledge? cuz that's all it is tbh. All this does is nerf my playing style. I hope there becomes a ledge grab limit (cliffhangers) just so i can laugh about how bad and much of a crybaby everyone is. You can't plank puff btw, and puff's planking LEAGUES better than sheiks is. It's not even close actually. Puff has to be shinespiked 3 times to die. Sheik once. You can't gimp puff. When puff gets the stock lead it's really easy for her. But only I will abuse this.

I don't understand. If "all it is" is a skill gap between you and your opponents at the ledge, then you believe that all of your opponents character's have viable responses to planking? If so, what are they for characters like C. Falcon, etc? Also, your statements about Puff's planking contradict your first point. Is puff's planking broken? And if so, why are you against a ledge grab limit?

 

[BTmoney]

Another "I get owned by this technique thread".​

You QQ about this because another person is using a advance technique that's in the game. ​

Were not robots and we don't use the edge JUST for recovering and grabbing on. Some say "It's the way the game was meant to be played" ***** please. Get your head in the game.​

We use the game physics and possibilities to it's full potential.​

No. It's not cheating or "Cheap" or "Gay". Cheating is a serious bug or glitch like the IC freeze glitch and it gets abused or Legit SRS cheat codes. *Swaps out melee disk while opponents not looking loads up Cheat codez actionreplayzzzzz* *put melee back in* "KAY LETS PLAY HOPE YOU DIDN'T SEE WUT I DID LUL I'M SO PRO!111!!1111111oneoneoneoneoneone!!!11111one!!!111". This was NOT intentional by the programmers.​

Your playing with a smart opponent.​

Nothing should be changed.​

Learn to counter it or improve your game so it won't happen.​

​

What do you mean another?
All your posts suck along with their formatting.
This isn't random ******** and moaning.
We are discussing if the tactic can be countered at all.
As of right now we think some characters can't deal with it and we are brainstorming what, if anything, should be done about it.
You can be the best player in the world and if you ever lose the lead you can get planked to death. Being so drastically better than your opponent so you never lose the lead or "improving your game so it doesn't happen" is not an answer.

 

[RockinRudy]

What do you mean another?
All your posts suck along with their formatting.
This isn't random *****ing and moaning.
We are discussing if the tactic can be countered at all.
As of right now we think some characters can't deal with it and we are brainstorming what, if anything, should be done about it.
You can be the best player in the world and if you ever lose the lead you can get planked to death. Being so drastically better than your opponent so you never lose the lead or "improving your game so it doesn't happen" is not an answer.

That's cool bro I'm glad you hate it ​

AS you can see everyone is against it. ​

Either Adapt to the Meta-game or ​

Go play Hello Kitties adventure island of rejected smashers. ​

Improving your game as in. Read your opponent better and don't **** up. ​

Better?​

 

[Zankoku]

Keep discussion civil, please. This isn't a place for people to belittle those who happen to be against the tactic.

 

[TreK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu_RmSJxtUE
Us brawler already did that and that felt ridiculous. That's not a path you want to follow.

And if this is just a way to be more popular towards the FGC guys, here's two things I hope will act as food for thought :
1) The noisy trolls hate us for existing. The respectful, educated ones hate us only when we do dumb things like splitting the money of an EVO event or banning competitively fine stuff.
2) They'll hate us one way or another, deal with it already. We don't want them to love us, we want them to acknowledge us and have them understand how we function and what we stand for. And if to do so we have to go out of our way and fit in a mold we dislike, then we're kinda losing sight of what's important.

 

[KrazyKnux]

dash pivot ledge grab guys.

Yes! This was the first thing that popped in my mind. Plus it looks incredibly gangster to pull off, and it's easy to do with falcon.

 

[pokemongeof]

Man this is really a hot topic!

 

[KrazyKnux]

The infamous ghost poster strikes again

 

[Mew2King]

Honestly you guys really just locked my last thread LOL

seriously you guys are *******, I will not change how I play. Learn to beat it. I hate losing to falco at all these tournaments in a row or being camped out by other players but that does not mean I can restrict or ban their tactics. It's part of the game and I won't change it to cater to what you guys want. It's not happening.

You can learn to counter my strategy then I will make counters to those counters and that is what competitive gaming is.

When sheik is edge hogged she becomes ****ed. Either an SD or a stomp to knee to edge guard. Puff's planking is debatable in terms of ease of use as well as risk/reward ratio, but sheik's is not. This is where I am very strong at and this is also where my character is very strong at so I will take advantage of that.

 

[RockinRudy]

Honestly you guys really just locked my last thread LOL

seriously you guys are ****ies, I will not change how I play. Learn to beat it. I hate losing to falco at all these tournaments in a row or being camped out by other players but that does not mean I can restrict or ban their tactics. It's part of the game and I won't change it to cater to what you guys want. It's not happening.

You can learn to counter my strategy then I will make counters to those counters and that is what competitive gaming is.

It's cool bro there's another *pats back*​

 

[Mew2King]

falco should not be able to SHL and then grab me when I am at the ledge it is very lame and covers all my options and I can't do anything. ban falco or laser limit pls

 

[BTmoney]

Lol rudy, what?

 

[Bad Cupboard]

i think we shoud ban fox upthrow upair i mean its guaranteed and realy broken and i no u can sdi it but idk how 2 do that
ban pls

 

[Strong Badam]

Keep discussion civil, please. This isn't a place for people to belittle those who happen to be against the tactic.

actually, I think it is. you aren't doing anyone or the community a favor by preventing people from deriding scrubbiness (which is the only reaction such scrubbiness deserves). unless posts were edited, nothing was said that was particularly out of line. except tachi pointing out how awful rockinrudy's formatting is. but I find that pretty hilarious.

as obnoxious as jason's argumentation can be, he brings up valid points. there are tactics that are far more toxic and lacking in interaction than the ledge-stalling of one player. the main reason players are complaining about this is that it isn't entertaining. I dunno if you've noticed this but the goal of a tournament player is not, never has been, and never will be to entertain you. it is to win. if ledgestalling helps a player secure victory, there's no problem here. if we were all making a competitive game, I think we'd all agree that something should be done about it. but we're not, and we never will be. we are making a ruleset that is to be the least intrusive as possible and allow the players the ability to compete. it's an unfortunate reality that this game's skillset also happens to include the ability to maneuver around the ledge. m2k is very good at it, and that is part of why he wins, just like how Hbox is great at spacing bairs or how PP has very effective laser control. to watch him perform it well, win, and go "hey, that's not cool. we should prevent that" is to undermine the very concept of competition, and it's also an insult to the game of SSBM.

EDIT: to whoever was wondering, lightshield edgehog doesn't really work against sheik. her up-b is unique in that she doesn't suffer hitlag while her opponent does, granting her additional frame advantage much like a projectile would

 

[Zankoku]

Given that the Wobbles infinite being banned was somehow an accepted rule in several regions up until recently I think it's only fair to give due discussion to things that have actually been brought up by a significant number of people.

 

[Mew2King]

imma laugh so hard if i make melee have a LGL. I already made brawl have both a LGL, a scrooging rule, and certain stages banned, as well as my character for a period of time. Let's see what I can do to this game/community. How scrubbish will this one be i wonder

 

[Zhea]

First off while this tactic is frustrating, I don't think it should be banned.

Second lets say a player follows this strategy. They play Shiek. They get the first kill by the 7 minute mark and then proceed to ledge camp for the next 7 minutes. The opponent (for the sake of argument let's use captain falcon) decides to stay at a safe distance. In order to stay perfectly safe at all times, the Shiek player has to execute perfect invul refreshes and fair planking for 7 Minutes. If the player screws up there is a very good chance they will lose their stock for it and can no longer afford to camp until they get the lead again. Is this exciting to watch? No it's not. It's also not the only thing unexciting to watch in melee. There is quite a few never have to approach perfect camping strats that have floated around and none of them have ever been main stream or have won an international (at least in recent memory).

Third, come on people we have been through this song and dance before. We went through during the rise of high level puffs. We just had it with falco/peach. This is part of the reason melee is so amazing. We are over 10 years into the development of this game and we still find tons of new **** every year. This to shall pass.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

the only smash game i hear of that restricts people of their playstyle is brawl
do you really want melee to turn into brawl
also m2k ****s up the waveland onto stage and the infintite shiek ****
so you should be happy hes down there
if this is at a major just start "STOOP KIDS AFRAID TO LEAVE HIS STOOP" and he will SD

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

M2K I don't know why you're freaking out, Hax is the only one in this thread who supports a LGL while everyone else seems to think its a bad idea.

Though the highlight of this thread is Cactus ****ting on you mercilessly LOL

 

[EpixAura]

Honestly, I think this discussion should first play out under the assumption that there may, in fact, be a LGL at some point in the future. In other words, we should try and actually come up with a reasonable number for the LGL, so that IF a tournament wants to run a LGL, they will have the information to do so without running into problems.

As for my opinion on a LGL, I support it. The point of any game is to be fun. Planking is not fun for the viewers or for the players, and completely changes the nature of the game when implemented. It's position as 'overpowered' is questionable, but that's not the full scope of the problem. For Sheik, the risk is high, but the reward is higher. For Puff, it's just typical low-risk high-reward. Plus, it's not like a LGL will completely invalidate these characters.

Of course, I've had very little experience using it or playing against it, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, and a whole bar of delicious melt-in-your-mouth-good Dove chocolate.

Dove chocolate. *Insert slogan here.*