• The Metagame documentary is a finalist in three awards this year. You can vote for it on the Esports Awards.

  • Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

  • Hey, you there! Yes, I'm talking to you, Guest!

    Following Sora's announcement as the final fighter coming to Smash Bros. Ultimate, we've got an update on the future of the Newcomer Speculation forum. Please check it out!

    The Future of Ultimate Newcomer Speculation

Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

Strider_Bond00J

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
2,863
Location
la-lio~n~
Switch FC
SW-2525-8699-9095
:ultisabelle:: "They want me in Smash?!"
Isabelle's decent if you ask me. Sweet and wholesome in her own universe, and that character is still intact here in Smash. She does lose quite a few points for originality, with her being a semi-clone of Villager just without the RNG turnips and different properties of Lloyd. One thing which I like is her fishing rod, which was always something I always felt that an Animal Crossing character would have in Smash Bros, and Isabelle is devastating with it in the right hands.
I'd say overall she's about a 60% satisfaction for me. Pleasant character to have since she's a mascot for Animal Crossing, but her being a semi-clone with few differences from Villager does make me view her a little lower. Also no voice samples? That's kind of jarring, even though Villager has a perfectly good reason for no voice.

:ultken:: "Come on, let's turn up the heat!"
Ken's a welcome addition after Ryu and makes perfect sense, given that as Sakurai said, he's kinda the original Echo Fighter in all fighting games. He's got some abilities to differentiate him from Ryu and also some nice special moves like his kicking command normals - Oosoto Mawashi Geri and Nata Otoshi Geri - and of course you can kinda simulate the iconic EVO Moment 37 with parries. His Final Smashes are great, SHINRYUUKEN!! He's a strong addition to Smash's line-up if you ask me. Satisfaction: 80%.

:ultincineroar:
Incineroar is an interesting character for me. I long supported Decidueye as my personal choice for a Gen VII Pokémon what with the spectral archer theme Decidueye had going for it. Incineroar being a cartoonish heel wrestler was also quite divisive since the beginning, but I suppose with the rumours of the Box Leak and the Grinch Leak, I think I had time to maybe re-evaluate Incineroar, even once making a moveset for it for fun. Incineroar paired nicely with Ken's reveal, but there's also a slight sad touch that in the Japanese version, this was the last role for Unshō Ishizuka. R.I.P you legend.

I wasn't too keen on Incineroar from the leaks, but actually seeing the big guy in action and how much personality he exudes he fits Smash quite nicely. Boisterous and arrogant like a heel is and has some nice concepts going for the moveset like throwing them into a wrestler's ring and performing a powerful lariat into their neck. Incineroar really shines in personality, and they've got plenty of it. But as the last reveal that kinda sent alarm bells ringing. "...Wait, is Isaac going to be DLC...?" The following massacre soured me on Incineroar but now several years, later I've moved on from that. So Incineroar I'd say in the end is a decent 70% satisfaction.

:ultpiranha:
I'm just tempted to leave this as 0%. This was probably the most baffling and insulting character reveal, especially after the Assist Trophy massacre. All our favourites that we hoped as a DLC fighter, all uprooted by a POTTED PLANT??? Starting the DLC with Piranha Plant was a bad move for sure. Of course there were funny moments like the Piranha Plant Bohemian Rhapsody video and some interesting concepts, but Piranha Plant is likely to never live down how much vitriol it had directed towards it from fans who wanted characters from the Grinch Leak instead. (Especially Isaac)
Come launch, it's passable but forgettable. Sometimes I play it as a joke or just fooling around, but it's still ridiculous. Overall I'd say my satisfaction on Piranha Plant remains incredibly low - 10%. It's very good thing the rest of the DLC was salvaged by a certain stolen invitation.
 

Sari

Smash Master
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
4,347
Location
New Jersey
NNID
Villager49
Switch FC
SW-2215-0173-2152
:ultisabelle:
Satisfaction: 100%
My first Animal Crossing entry was New Leaf and I loved the heck out of it. I played it just about everyday and so by the end of Smash 4 speculation, Isabelle was one of my most wanted characters for the next game.

The next few years following Smash 4's release were great in regards to Isabelle. She was getting more and more prominent Nintendo appearances that it really felt like she belonged on the roster. A lot of my most wanted were already big by the time I wanted them in Smash, so to witness Isabelle's slow growth to becoming a Nintendo regular from very early on was a very satisfying experience.

Her reveal was the most excited I had been for a character at the time. All of the past reveals in both Ultimate and SSB4 were great, but none of the characters were ones that I personally wanted. Isabelle changed that as I had a giant smile on my face as she got the invite and her tagline showed up.

I'm fine with Isabelle being a semi-clone if Villager. Granted I'd maybe change some of her aerials to make her more unique, but I think she does the zoning job well especially with her down-B.

Overall, Isabelle is great to have and she is easily my favorite newcomer in the game after Terry.


:ultken:
Satisfaction: 90%
Now THIS right here is how you do an echo. Makes absolute sense for an echo? Check. A great and recognizable character? Check. Lots of differences between their main counterpart? Check all the way. Granted it was hard to get too excited for Ken since he was the most obvious choice after Inkling, but he really does feel like one of the most solid and refined picks on the roster.

It still irks me how we never got anymore echoes after Ken. Would've loved to see them utilized more. If Ken was meant to act as a last bow to them however, then he definitely did the job.

-----

"Dang Ultimate's pre-FP1 roster sure was great! Who else do we have to rate?"
Looks at next two characters
"Oh yeah... ****"

-----

:ultincineroar:
Satisfaction: 1%
There's a reason why it took until Sora for people to stop saying that Smash speculation periods end on bad notes.

Even before Incineroar, I thought Pokemon had more than enough reps. If you count the Pokemon Trainer characters as 3 individual ones, there were a whopping 9 Pokemon reps before Incineroar. So it goes without saying that yet another Pokemon wasn't exactly at the top of my want list. This is also factoring in how I thought Sun/Moon were just good entries in the Pokemon series and not much more.

I did consider the possibility of us getting a Gen VII rep a lot though, and when it came down to it I was hoping for Decidueye instead. Ignoring personal bias since I prefer the Rowlet line, I feel there's just so much more you can do with an arrow shooting ghost owl than with a bipedal wrestler with fire attacks (we really could use ghost character in Smash).

Needless to say, I was not happy that our final character for the base game would be yet another Pokemon promo pick as well as a Pokemon that I just didn't like in general. Regardless of how you feel about Incineroar, it felt really lame as the final base game character which is why I think the Belmonts would've been a better for the end (plus they'd line up closer to Halloween which would've been neat).

I love grappling characters in fighting games such as T. Hawk, Hugo, and (to an extent) Alex from Street Fighter. But Incineroar just doesn't do it for me. His power doesn't compensate at all for his super slow speed and awful recovery (yes I'm aware grapplers are usually low tier but I just don't find Incineroar fun to use). It also really irks me how Pokemon has hundreds of moves to use and yet Incineroar's side-B is a Smash original (the only instance for any Pokemon's special moves in Smash). And although counters are common in Smash, I think they're well done in cases like Greninja and Shulk. But for Incineroar's down-B Revenge move, it just feels slapped on and I would've preferred a different type of grabbing move instead.

I tried to be lenient to Incineroar while doing this rating (I was originally going to give it a 10%), but the more I think of it the more I just don't like this character at all. The only reasons I didn't give a 0% is because I hate the next character even more and I think Smash needs more grappler characters. But even then, I feel like there are characters who could do the archetype a lot better (Zangief or Mike Haggar when?).

Oh and since there isn't really any other good time for me to say it, let me just say it now: thank god we did not get a Gen 8 rep.


:ultpiranha:
Satisfaction: 0%
There's been times where I didn't like a character in Smash, but over time I grew to like their inclusion...

...Plant is not one of those characters.

Comparing Plant to past surprise/joke picks just isn't right, because all of the other ones have a lot more things to justify them being characters:
  • :jigglypuff64: and :pichumelee: were some of the most popular Pokemon at the time of their inclusions and were just clones (with Jigglypuff being based on Kirby in 64).
  • :gawmelee:, :rob:, and :4duckhunt: are odd picks but help rep Nintendo's earlier successes and can be seen as unique retro characters.
  • :4wiifit: reps one of the most popular games on the Wii.

So what does Plant represent? A random enemy from a series that already has a ton of reps. And it's not even one of the more popular Mario enemies like a Goomba or Koopa. Sakurai actually said that Plant's entire purpose was to act as a "surprise fighter" pick whose inclusion is more that just for the initial shock and to add more characters other than typical "hero/heroines." And funnily enough, Plant fails at both of those things.

Plant's moveset does nothing for me. Like TCT said, a lot of Plant's moves feel unpolished and awkward. Granted I think Sakurai did the best he could for a character like Plant, but again it's... a potted plant so there isn't really a lot you can work with. If the goal was to add a Mario enemy I feel like they would've been better off with someone like a Koopa. Heck even Petey Piranha as a full character probably would've been way cooler than what we got (I actually used them a lot in Double Dash so I'd be down for Petey over regular Plant any day).

Also I swear on my life I'm not just saying this to trash on Plant some more, but I legit keep forgetting that it is even a character. The only times I remember it exists are when I have to look back on the full roster like I'm doing now.

This was only good for the initial laugh and for people to say "lol look how mad people are at this character XD." But look past all of that and you're left with easily the most lame inclusion in all of Smash.
 

Laniv

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
1,399
Dang, I missed the Daisy and K. Rool days. Ah well

Going Isabelle-istic on the Competition:ultisabelle:

Satisfaction: 80%

Speaking as the owner of the Tom Nook support thread on here, I'm only slightly disappointed that ol' Nook didn't make it this time. I can't blame Isabelle for her inclusion. My only gripe with her is that playing her, she feels like a less fun Villager.


Are John Cena jokes still funny? :ultincineroar:

Satisfaction: 87%

I will admit, I was not terribly excited for another Pokémon. Since my most wanted Gen VII rep, Mimikyu, was out of the running, and I knew that we weren't getting any of the Ultra Beasts, I had resigned myself to getting a Pokémon I wasn't to thrilled about. My first thought upon seeing Incineroar's eyes in the shadows was "Ah, I guess the Grinch leak was fake after all."

And then I saw Incineroar's gameplay.

Hot dang, they made this cat fun. It wasn't enough that they made it hit like a truck, but they gave it built-in taunts when it lands certain attacks. And that's not even getting into its voice, which I maintain is the best voice direction of any newcomer.

This is the ideal of a "shill pick". Not only did I like Incineroar in Smash, I got a new appreciation for it in it's home series.


Audrey III :ultpiranha:

Satisfaction: 30%

What can I say that hasn't already been said? We were all shocked upon seeing it, we all laughed, and then the Plant Gang all but vanished once more DLC characters were added.

I'll end off with this: if it was Petey Piranha, I'd be much more enthusiastic, and if we had to have a Mario enemy, I would have gone for Hammer Brothers or Lakitu, as a Bowser Jr. echo.
 
Last edited:

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
60,461
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
The character a lot of people screamed at for having to wait an extra week for

70% I'm not an Animal Crossing fan but I can't deny that Isabelle's addition made me smile, she's got some cute animations, the jokes around her were great and she also caters to more than the hardcore fans of 20 years. Plus, that fishing rod special is ****ing hilarious. Her trailer's poor pacing knocks this down a bit though

Hey Ryu "HELLO KEN" Can I borrow your phone? I need to make a call "SURE YOU CAN"

90% Ken was very much known about for a while but damn, he didn't disappoint at all, we get a fantastic trailer and Ken is easily the best echo by far, being more of a Melee clone if anything. Having the Shippu Jinrai was an absolute treat and the only issue is that Ken's extra inputs **** with me so a little knocking off here.

How fitting, a heel wrestler who served to piss people off who believed the Grinch leak

100% Incineroar's trailer was shared with Ken so already we have one of the best trailers Ultimate offered us but the fat cat themselves? Good god, Incineroar is so ****ing fun to play as, there's not a single move in that entire moveset which doesn't feel good to land, there's also the immense joy about slowly approaching and Revenging projectiles while my friends get very nervous is so goddamn satisfying.

The character I saw a ridiculous pop off for

80% I missed the livestream so I couldn't watch it with friends but goddamn, the reveal was so memorable as it was like 10 seconds of silence from me before going mad with laughter, Plant is easily the best joke character Smash has ever had with some fun moves to use and I still regularly see Plant when playing with friends, especially as I can easily manipulate a friend into targetting the Plant main by saying "Shall we get the weed killer?" Very fun character to see, just not one I enjoy playing as. And hey, it was free, so that's even better
 

TCT~Phantom

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
3,374
NNID
TCT~Phantom
So, yeah, that announcement. Needless to say, I expected the boards to close soon, but I expected a few more days of wiggle room.

So, WoL, Spirits, and Online satisfaction has been cancelled. FP1 will all be on one day as well. Me and Sari Sari debated on what we should do, but this seemed like the most acceptable path.

Now, I know some people might be wondering about whether there will be a new RTC for the new smash speculation. Personally, I am against it with the shifts we have made. RTC is about trying to use whatever circumstantial evidences we have to make a case for a newcomer or concept. If we are flying blind, what’s the point? Why speculate on something we likely won’t get or even have any info on for years to come? I just don’t think with the changes RTC has made we can make a thread like this until we get a new game.

Today, we will be doing Fighters Pass one in general. Joker, Hero, Banjo, Terry, and Byleth, as well as FP1 as a whole. How has time affected these six?
 

Sari

Smash Master
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
4,347
Location
New Jersey
NNID
Villager49
Switch FC
SW-2215-0173-2152
Satisfaction Score Calcs

:ultsimon: Simon Belmont
Satisfaction: 81.05%
Previous satisfaction score: 84.59%

:ultrichter: Richter Belmont
Satisfaction:
73.16%
Previous satisfaction score: 74.61%

Not much to say for the Belmont bros as both of their scores stayed relatively the same since their August 2018 reveal. Despite having their movesets modeled after each other, Richter has always taken a bigger hit in satisfaction scores for being seen as a glorified alt rather than a more unique echo. But with a score of 73.16%, Richter is the most liked echo right now (most likely to change once I do Ken's scores).

It's interesting to note that Richter's only gameplay difference from Simon is his down-B which emits a different type of flame that can only matters for a few rare instances like with Olimar's Pikmin. Heck, even Dark Samus has more gameplay diffferences than this! Despite that however, Richter did not suffer a major score drop like with Daisy and Dark Samus.

:ultchrom: Chrom
Satisfaction: 64.25%

Previous satisfaction score was 63.66%. Things have basically stayed the same for Chrom with his main complaints being that he is an echo and yet another Fire Emblem character.

Amusingly enough, Chrom is the only echo so far whose score actually increased since their initial satisfaction rating. Granted it's not by a significant amount, but it's still something worth bragging about especially to the next character.


:ultdarksamus:Dark Samus
Satisfaction: 58.37%

Dark Samus' previous score after her reveal was 71.20%. Like with Daisy, it seems that time has not done her any favors as she dropped by nearly 15%. Based on the drop-off since last time (and Ken's smoking hot scores so far), it seems Daisy and Dark Samus are the least liked echoes introduced in Ultimate.


:ultkrool: King K. Rool
Satisfaction: 91.58%

Previous satisfaction score was 94.82% (the highest satisfaction score in Ultimate's history).

K. Rool is still king as his score has stayed the same for the most part and currently has the highest score of all of the rerated characters. Will someone be able to top the croc?
 
Last edited:

DrifloonEmpire

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2019
Messages
1,387
:ultjoker: Joker

Satisfaction: 20% -
Never cared about Persona and probably never will. This character probably has the least connection to Nintendo out of the entire roster and felt more like a prestige pick rather than a truly in the spirit pick. Furthermore, his inclusion sparked a lot of aggression/proselytization from the fanbases of characters that had never even touched a Nintendo system, 2B being a notable one. His impact on the metagame really didn't help either. And from what I've heard from people, he isn't even accurate to Persona gameplay? Really what was the point. I do like how Sakurai at least really liked the game and had fun with his inclusion, but the choice felt more like a flex for SEGA than anything. There were also several other SEGA reps I'd have rather seen, and if we needed to go Atlus I'd choose Shin Megami Tensei instead. I will at least give him points for being super unexpected.



:ulthero::ulthero2: Hero :ulthero3::ulthero4:

Satisfaction: 70% -
Never been the biggest JRPG guy so the connection to Dragon Quest isn't really there, but I warmed up to him over time. What didn't help in his case was that we knew he was coming for months so a lot of people didn't really feel any shock and awe at his reveal. Still, Akira Toriyama's art style is a refreshing change of pace aesthetics-wise for a JRPG rep, and I love how they got four different heroes in via alts. I also like some of the goofy magic he can use, and I'd say he's a shill pick done right. His main alt was there to market 11S, but he was a highly-requested pick in Japan with great historical significance and fantastic Nintendo representation. Very satisfied!



:ultbanjokazooie: Banjo and Kazooie

Satisfaction: 100% -
A fantastic choice all around! It felt so good to see these former Nintedno superstars finally return home! The concept for Spiral Mountain as a stage was super novel and the remixes were FANTASTIC. My friends and I listen to them all the time, and their inclusion has become so important to us that every September we order the honorary "Banjo-Kazooie Pizza"! I also love their moveset! While it's relatively simple, the way it is implemented feels like a lot of older Smash characters, simple and clean (as opposed to the meters and big gimmicks a lot of Smash 4 DLC/Ultimate-era third parties have). This really drives home their status as former Nintendo characters, and I couldn't be happier that they're here! Plus they opened the door for Western characters! What's not to love?!



:ult_terry: Terry Bogard

Satisfaction: 95% -
I'm no SNK fan but man, I feel ashamed for writing SNK off during FP1 speculation! Terry was all around fantastically done! His moveset has some neat ideas, his stage has excellent cameos, and they knocked it out of the park with his music selection! Even his spirit board was great, I loved both the creative battles and even the awesome moving train effect in the background! The whole challenger pack was full of passion, and was a big loveletter to SNK as a whole. Terry was an excellent historical choice, and Sakurai clearly had a lot of fun designing him and his content! What's not to love?



:ultbyleth:Byleth :ultbylethf:

Satisfaction: 0% -
By far the worst inclusion in Ultimate in my opinion. Still a step up from Corrin since their game was actually positively received, but not by much. I couldn't find anything positive about their inclusion. Fire Emblem really didn't need another rep, it was the start of the JRPG fatigue that hit Ultimate's DLC season like a truck, Byleth's fans (especially on Twitter) were some of the most insufferable people imaginable, and it really set a bad precedent going forward. Fire Emblem doesn't need a new rep every time it gets a new game, and 70-75% of Fire Emblem's content in Smash comes from the three modern games, and this pack gave it the second highest quantity of music in the entire game (second only to Mario). Who knows what'll happen by the time Smash 6 rolls around? I almost guarentee you that Fire Emblem 18's protagonist is gonna be a Smash 6 base game newcomer. Furthermore, Byleth's moveset as a mess. While I appriciate not going down the Marth clone route, other characters like Dragonborn could've done the Weapon Master archtype so much better. Let's not forget that awful trailer, which was both predictable and honestly infuriating with the "too many swordsman?" joke they added in localization to mock a legitimate criticism of the game. Coming from a smug, obnoxious b**** like Sothis made matterts that much worse. I also have to say that I'm sick of the growing trend with male/female alt fighters where fans make the male a loser and the female a badass powerhouse who's absolved of all criticism just because she's hot. It happens with Inkling, Wii Fit, Corrin, and so many others, it only adds to the feel-bad vibe of Byleth's inclusion that would put CatDog to shame. People claim that there should be more male/female alt characters where the female's the default, but these people need to realize the difference between "on paper" and "in practice". I will at least say that I like the stage's use of an actual named Fire Emblem location and the continued trend of stage cameos (even if the models look ugly, honestly Three Houses had a slightly ugly art style), and Byleth's inclusion means that Edelgard got ***********. But this is not a character that grew on me at all, and in my eyes the whole ordeal will always be a stain on Smash's history.




Fighter's Pass 1 at Large

Satisfaction: 70% -
It was very up and down for me. Joker's inclusion was very alienating and I can't say I was a fan. But while Hero was predictable, he was also a fantastic historical choice that grew on people and really earned his place on the roster. Banjo-Kazooie was by far the height of the pass for me and a lot of people, and the perfect way to close out E3! A fan favorite finally returning home! Even people in Japan got excited and his reception was overwhelmingly positive! Terry, while more of a low-key pick, also grew on people quickly, especially given his significance to the history of both traditional fighting games and Smash itself. It's always nice to see Sakurai smile and have fun with what he's created, and Terry's inclusion really meant a lot to him! It really had that passion that's been somewhat missing since Smash 4 started. Finally, Byleth, the one that really tanked the score of the pass for me. Another Fire Emblem rep, more shilling, more obnoxious FE fans that won't listen to logic, and a real dud after four third-party characters who overall made a positive impression. Thankfully we knew about the second pass by then so that softened the blow. But it was a terrible way to end it off. Still, the positives of the pass outweigh the negatives, and it deserves a fair score for what it contributed to the game!
 
Last edited:

MasterOfKnees

Space Pirate
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
8,577
Location
Denmark
NNID
KneeMaster
Switch FC
SW-6310-1174-0352
A hair late to the previous batch, but oh well.

Isabelle: 25% - She's well animated and has a lot of personality, but I rarely ever find much reason to play her over Villager, who's moveset just flows a whole lot better imo.

Ken: 75% - Definitely the coolest echo in many ways, although that's largely because he kinda blurs the lines of what's an echo and what isn't. It's nice to have the OG clone character, and it's the best Ken has ever looked in 3D. I'm no good at the shotos, but if I have to play one of them, I always choose Ken.

Incineroar: 30% - His moveset is okay, Revenge shenganigans can be pretty satisfying to land, but it's not enough to make up for what already feels like an outdated addition to the roster. At least Lucario and Greninja were so overwhelmingly popular that they became the definitive icons of their generations, as well as having a lasting impact on the series beyond that. Incineroar wasn't that. There were other Gen 7 Pokémon that'd have made for cooler concepts imo, like Decidueye or Tapu Koko, but it is what it is.

Piranha Plant: 20% - Piranha Plant's peak was during his reveal, it's difficult to find characters that no one predicts these days, but they somehow did it, and with a Mario character too. The novelty of his inclusion quickly wore off though, and what he turned out to be is a sluggish character that's very one-dimensional and neither fun to play as or against. He's the one surprise character we've gotten who feels to me as if he didn't offer much beyond his initial reveal.

Joker: 40% - Another one who's just okay, but he gets a little cut in his rating for being a huge pain to play against, especially as someone who plays a few characters with horrible disadvantage states. Arsene is a silly mechanic too, if Joker returns in the future I expect that part of him to get a bit of an overhaul.

Hero: 70% - What a funky character, he's so much fun to bust out in casual matches. I'd probably hate playing him if I tried to actually get good with him, but as a character to just mess around with it doesn't get much better than his spell menu. Kudos to the team for actually managing to make him balanced as well, this concept could easily have gone one way or the other.

Banjo & Kazooie: 90% - Top notch reveal, even though I hadn't played Banjo-Kazooie yet at the time seeing them back put a big smile even on my face. I only find them mild fun to play as, but I love the amount of personality you get from them, and the music they brought along is fantastic. They can be a bit frustrating to play against, but that's mostly because of how awful the online is, offline I don't find it too bad. Their inclusion also led to me trying out the original game, which is always a good sign.

Terry: 100% - This guy. It's rare that Smash introduces me to something I have nearly no clue about these days, but SNK was the one and only during Ultimate. Between Sakurai's amazing presentation (by far his best one) and Terry being so much fun to play as, I ended up checking out Fatal Fury and KoF, and I've since fallen in love. I just recently wrapped up playthroughs of every mainline KoF game (well, almost, KoF '95's bosses are a pain), and KoF XV is currently my most anticipated game now that Metroid Dread is out. I touched on it, but Terry is just such a fun character, he fits Smash so much better than the shotos imo, and like in his own series his moveset is simple yet satisfying. I love his cool and carefree personality too, Terry has become one of my favorite video game characters in almost no time. That's not to mention that he brought along 50 music tracks, almost all of which are bangers, and even his stage is fun, which is high praise coming from someone who never plays on stages with hazards. What a great inclusion, he took me back to the pre-Brawl days where new characters announcements would push me to play games and series I hadn't previously touched and find something I love.

Byleth: 0% - Byleth was already the most boring part of Three Houses, and he's not a whole lot more fun in Smash with how slow and unsatisfying he is to play. Some people are probably gonna give him this rating for being yet another FE character, but for me it's more that he was the wrong one, as I really wanted Edelgard instead, so there's little positive for me to get from his inclusion.

Fighters Pass 1: 70% - Three great inclusions sandwiched between two characters I don't care much for. With how difficult it is to impress me at this stage, as I've long since gotten what I dreamt of, I'll consider it a success.
 
Last edited:

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
14,756
Location
Scotland
get ready for some world class pure scottish negativity

the guy reyn was always finding a bunch of
0% first of all, was i really the only one who saw him, rolled their eyes and went "of course"? everything about joker irritated me. he struck me as them trying to hard to make a cool character. then i actually saw some of persona and now i think hes a complete dullard who thinks hes cool. the more i see of persona the more im off put, between the inkling/barbra gordon rip off sexually harassing her friends in strikers before the game reminding everyone their minors to the fact that joker is a complete blank slate even by silent protag standards. he has an interesting mechanic but thats not much, especially when other characters have done it better.

goku and the gang
0% there was time i would have give him more. at first i thought his moveset was cool and his stage was pretty nice. then i tried DQ8 and after giving it a fair chance i concluded it to be very boring. and that tainted him for me. DQ was so boring he actually made the smash appearance boring as a result. basically the reverse of what happened with kirby and AC.

britains best contribution to gaming
100% ah the impossible dream realized. id written them off as never going to be seen again so imagine my hype when they came back. the amazing thing was, they played almost exactly how i pictured them, that doesnt usually happen. there were one or two things as i had a couple different ideas for moves. but it was all so awesome, the moveset, the stage, the music of the music, it was enough to make me buy the whole pass. which was not a idea in hindsight.

humphry
0% theres nothing to him, its like watching a pile of dust fight. terry still feels like a character sakurai put in for himself and himself alone. and fair enough i doubt anyone else wouldnt be doing the same. but terry is still so boring. not even mashing together ryu and cloud's gimmicks could make him interesting. something about him feels like a waste, could have been the coming with 50 songs and only 10 of them being half decent.

in detention
0% i played 3 houses and i rather enjoyed it. i kinda like byleth even though he was pretty much a non character. but i still think he should not have been added. getting into fire emblem didnt help me get over the absurd amount character it gets, it just added to my irritation. cause now i know they keep going for all the really dull characters. doesnt matter how flashy your moves are or how interesting your back story is, if youve got no personality youre still boring. if i was picking a roster i would gut the FE crowd and the two from the games ive actually played would not still be here. that says something, not sure what. maybe i would have been a bit more tolerant if it was one of the better characters. all i can say in his favour is at least it wasnt eadlegard. which is a very low bar.

over all pass: 20% only one character i liked out of five. thats all there is to it
 

BowserKing

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
1,000
Location
winnipeg
Joker: 85%. I was not expecting Joker to appear at all. But he is very fun to play as, and I know a lot more of Persona 5 as a result. Overall, he is a fun inclusion.
Hero: 70%. I’ll be honest, I was against the idea of Erdrick in smash, but thanks to him being an alt for Hero, I honestly felt better. Hero (mainly Eight) is fun to play as, and his moves and gimmick make him deadly. Overall, he is a fun fighter in smash.
Banjo and Kazooie: 100%. I was quite excited to seem them on a Nintendo device, let alone Smash. They are very fun to play as, and they are my main in the first fighter’s pass. Overall, their worth having in smash.
Terry: 85%. Terry is quite fun to play as, and of the third Party fighting game characters, Terry is my main. His moves are quite deadly. Overall, he is very fun in smash.
Byleth: 100%. No this is not a joke. I was dreading the idea of an all third party fighter’s pass, so seeing Byleth make it in is an honest relive. Byleth is very fun to play as, and the weapons are very powerful. Overall, Byleth is a very fun character in Smash and does not deserve the hate.
Overall: 90%. Yes this pass is worth purchasing and that is all I can say
 

Ridrool64

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
1,383
Location
New Jersey
Literally perfect: 100%. Terry is the epitome of something I never knew I wanted, never knew I needed, until it happened... if it wasn't for that SNK leak he would've been this "who the ****" into "oh **** he's boss" true combo that I won't experience again since my gaming tastes have grown so wide it's almost impossible for me to think of a genre I don't have at least enough familiarity with. But here we are. 50 songs, the best playing moveset, great but not broken, and an awesome stage that serves as a love letter to all of SNK!('s fighting games. Sorry, Metal Slug fans.) There may have been characters more personal to me but Terry I think is the best DLC newcomer and second best newcomer altogether, only Ridley beating him. His only "flaw" is that Triple Wolf as his final smash is shoehorned to have a cutscene attack, it really should've just been Triple Geyser (or at least, if it had to be, involve the other two members of his team from King of Fighters), but I consider that just a nitpick in hindsight. You are OK, Terry. You are OK.

CatDog: 95%. Although they were among the newcomers I like the most in terms of raw identity, I don't factor in solely identity for these scores but everything else. Banjo and Kazooie's everything else... still holds up after scrutiny. I might not be the biggest fan of their moveset (no fire, ice or clockwork eggs is sad but understandable, but no Pack Whack nair/d smash is a travesty) but I think it does a great job representing the duo regardless. Their stage is kinda weird to play on but still really fun. It's honestly just the fact that they managed to happen in the first place. I think that in terms of raw identity Microsoft won for me on both passes (which will spoil who I think the best newcomer of Volume 2 is...)

I'm holding out for a: 80%. I have a friend who likes Dragon Quest a lot so in hindsight the Hero has only gotten better for me. At the time I preferred Slime since I doubted Hero (at that time, the Erdrick Arusu, but I probably would have thought the same of the Luminary Eleven) would be much more than Robin 2 thematically. Boy Sakurai knows how to shut me the **** up. Sorry about the music but it had stuff I liked to begin with because of Fortune Street so I don't mind the MIDI sounding music (even if it sounds worse than in Fortune Street somehow...)

Teacher's pet: 60%. Unlike for many Byleth is not the bottom of the barrel in this period of speculation in my eyes. Although I didn't beat it until this year due to schedule problems, Byleth was a newcomer that I loved and appreciated through Three Houses which helped me get over A. 8 Fire Emblem characters and B. the 8th Fire Emblem blue-ish haired (well, 5th due to Roy/Robin/Corrin) sword lord with a "but wait, I promise it isn't actually a sword lord" gimmick. Byleth as a whole felt like trying to prove they were more than JUST a sword lord was their downfall: no Divine Pulse (which surely could've been implemented in a way that wasn't counter like or just a counter), no Brawling, no Faith magic... all of these things are much more distinct. It's still good to see the weapon triangle implemented, but I do think that Edelgard was a better choice mechanically. However for keeping things route-neutral and relative to the test build Sakurai got, Byleth was the best choice.

No show Akechi: 40%. I have a love-hate relationship with Ren. On one hand I don't think I'll ever fully get over that era from 2018 to 2019 where I just felt... deflated because of him. On the other hand I've since played his games (game? how do I define this) and they rock. It would be disingenuous of me to give a 0% like I originally intended because that would mean I thought he was a net negative, his addition made the game worse. No, the closest thing is Min Min gameplay wise but in terms of identity and moveset... Joker is just so powerful man... I dunno, I get conflicted. I love the content he comes with besides the stage itself, which is too gimmicky and wild for my tastes but the music is so good... even if I don't think he came with enough (where's Blooming Villain? The ACTUAL final boss theme? Will Power? Keeper of Lust not being there was a good call though, that song is kinda mid). At least his Final Smash is easily the best of the pass if not the best of the DLC, despite being a cutscene one...
 

White Frost

Not that icy
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
32,943
Location
Some Cave
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Joker: 85% An off the wall and unexpected pick. But still pretty cool. Though the lack of SMT entirely does kind of suck, it's understandable from Atlus' point of view.
Hero: 92% I predicted(later on) that Erdrick would not be the core alt. I was right. Luminary felt the most likely to me due to being easier to recognize nowadays(especially with all the mass promotion). Albeit, it was mainly the promotional factor. Eight I also saw coming as an alt just like Erdrick. Solo is the only one caught off guard of. That said, very fun character. I'd have preferred Slime, but this isn't bad at all.
Banjo & Kazooie: 50% Not that they're bad or anything, and I expected them or Steve anyway. I just don't really care about the series. So they didn't really satisfy me at all. But totally deserving~
Terry Bogard: 100% Not that I can really work well with him, but he's the most awesome choice for me. I love Fatal Fury and it's a great series~
Byleth: 80% A very fun weapon triangle-based character, and it's neat how both Alts are acknowledged as important. They are pretty cool. Too bad only one Alt got an amiibo.
Overall: 81.4% Well, it's the actual average. Overall, a damn good pass.

(BTW, something to point out is that Plant isn't a Joke Character. That's an actual character archtype, a character who specifically is very weak or has a massively bad ability in-game. Only Pichu and Jigglypuff ever applied to this, as they both had intentionally bad mechanics. Pichu hurts itself, and Jigglypuff isn't just light and easy to launch, but more importantly, flings itself into a Star KO if its shield breaks. Jigglypuff just happened to be a lot better than Sakurai intended, which is why he made Pichu intentionally bad. Plant in this case is a surprise character simply cause it's unexpected. That's really all there is to a Surprise Character archtype. Other reasons can exist, of course. And the concept behind how silly Plant is can be called a joke in itself, but it wasn't really attempting to be akin to that. It's not "for laughs" either. An iconic mook and an unexpected character is pretty much what it was going for as a concept, and it actually did that exactly. Yeah, Koopa and Gooma are more iconic, true, but that doesn't mean Plant is lacking in iconicness, heh).
 

DanganZilla5

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
1,720
Joker - 80%

He was a great way to start off the DLC with (Not counting Plant who by all means was meant for base game). He was a complete shock, and a game changer. Now for his pack in general, I enjoy it. Mementos is one of the most stylish stages on the roster and the songs slap hard. The only thing is I don't play Joker a lot. While I like the Arsene system and some of his attacks, I just don't jive with his playstyle that much. Plus I barely played Persona 5 so I don't have much attachment to Persona in general. Joker was an inclusion that I appreciate for being a big deal and a shock, but he's just kind of there for me. Still a really cool character though, and I love his victory screens.

_______________________

THWACK - 90%

Let me start off with a story that seems to be common with me and characters in Smash: When Hero was revealed, I was like "ok." Because not only was he fairly obvious from the Brave leak but back then I didn't care about DQ or JRPGs in general so he was whatever. But then I played him and holy ** he's one of the most fun DLC characters. I love his RNG ****** and all the fancy magic he has. Legit, the night that he came out, my best friend and I played him for several hours, just messing around with his magic and having RPG matches where we took turns casting spells.

I enjoyed him so much that I tried out the DQ11 demo and I enjoyed it a surprising amount. So I ended up buying the game and putting 30+ hours into the game. I still haven't beaten it, I just sort of lost interest but I do want to go back and finish it someday. But the point is, I appreciate Hero because he made me try out DQ11, the game that got me into JRPGs, a genre that I struggled for so long to get into.

Other than that, I enjoy the stage. As for the music, it does suck that they are the Midis but I still like the songs a lot. The two DQ11 songs I like, Adventure is great, and War Cry is a banger. So yeah, Hero is one of those inclusions that I really warmed up to over time and I'm glad DQ got the representation it deserved.

__________________________

Banjo - 90%

The only character in the first pass that I had a decent history with and who was highly speculated outside of Hero who got helped out by leakers and leaks. I am so glad Banjo made it in. He was the first third party western character which is an important milestone for Smash. I was hyping him up for E3 and when I saw his silhouette I freaked out. Even to this day it still feels like a fever dream seeing him on the roster. I love how they incorporated Banjo-Kazooie's personalities, I always am tempted to give an audible "guh-huh" alongside Banjo when he does it on the victory screen.

The music is really good. No Gruntilda theme is weird but the rest of the songs are great choices. The country feel to them is so unique among the OST and there are a lot of bangers. The stage is.....fine. I like it and the spinning doesn't bother me like with a lot of people but at the same time I think it's one of my least used stages in the DLC catalogue. But overall Banjo was a fantastic choice and I'm so happy for all his fans!

_________________________________

The man who asks if you are ok right as he blasts you into orbit - 100%

I don't use Terry much and I barely knew anything about SNK before his reveal but I'm giving him a 100 just based on the stage and music. KOF Stadium is one of my top favorite stages. It's super satisfying to send your opponents into the wall and the sound and visual effects for it are top notch. I also just love the stadium aesthetics. We don't have a lot of stadium stages aside from a few like Coliseum and the ARMS stage and even then the KOF stadium stage just has more personality to it with the fireworks and the background cameos.

And the music. Holy **** 50 songs?? I still can't wrap my mind around how generous SNK is. I love their music now, they gave us so many bangers, it's insane. They even gave us some Metal Slug tracks which is just hype. Legit, half of the songs are in my favorites playlist. Now as for Terry himself, what a chad. He will ask you if you are ok as he gut punches you right through a wall. Great memes, and I do like his "Go" gimmick. What can I say, this is just a likeable inclusion with a ton of history behind it.

___________________________

Oh dear god, I was not looking forward to doing this.

Byleth - 10%

I made my peace with Byleth after we got so many wonderful characters in FP2 but...I'm still going to rip this a new *******. I don't care about Fire Emblem and Nintendo's insistence on shilling the series to the point where we have almost as many FE characters as Mario characters, is utterly ridiculous and has turned me off from playing any FE game (Aside from Warriors which I got a while ago). NGL Byleth ruined my day when he was revealed, mostly because we didn't know that ARMS and Xenoblade 2 were going to get their characters at the time, and other first party characters like Isaac are still left in the dust. As a game that is advertised to be a celebration of gaming, CP5 should have been given to another series like Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven, etc.

Now I do have a couple positives to say about Byleth. I do like their moveset a lot. In fact they are one of my most used DLC characters. Yes it's not the most well thought out moveset but I do like tanky characters so they are up my alley. And Apex of the World is an amazing song.

Overall, at least Three Houses turned out to be beloved, but that doesn't excuse the fact that this was another blatant shill pick. Oh yeah and the stage isn't that fun either.

________________________

Overall pass satisfaction - 75%

Overall I do consider this a good pass. Joker was a pleasant surprise that pushed the envelope of what was thought to be possible (You could say that Cloud did this first but it was Joker that really reinforced the idea that anyone was possible). Hero is a super fun character with legacy backing him. Banjo is the fan favorite of the pass and broke the barrier for western third party characters. Terry is another character with a lot of legacy, from him being the mascot of SNK, to their history in general, to Sakurai's design model being influenced by his experience with SNK games. His challenger pack is also top tier, one of my favorites. And then there is Byleth.

I will say that none of these characters were close to being one of my most wanted, but as it stands, this is a solid lineup. There was only one big flop but even then I found some things to like about all of these characters. I did not regret my purchase of this pass.
 

TCT~Phantom

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
3,374
NNID
TCT~Phantom
Joker :ultjoker:100% Satisfaction

If I could go higher I would. Joker honestly is my favorite character added this game, and probably my favorite smash character period.

For starters, Joker has without a doubt the best Smash reveal in my opinion. The way the lights cut out, and it cut to the calling card logo for the Phantom Thieves. You knew it was something Persona, but you did not know what. Then, you hear that Joker was invited, and before you can process what is going on, you see the invitation. This does everything I want a newcomer trailer to do. It leaves you in suspense, while still having plenty of loving nods to its series or its character. I cant tell you how hype it was driving to the Gamestop near my college watching this trailer in the car.

Persona 5 is in that elite tier of games for me. There are a few games that hold a truly special place in my heart. Smash, TWEWY, TF2, the original Spyro Trilogy, Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix+, and of course Persona 5. I could go on about how every single design decision feels so well made, and how in Royal it got even better. I genuinely believe Persona 5 Royal is a perfect game. The UI is the best in any game I have ever seen. The characters and writing is great. I love how the confidants have their own gameplay effects this time compared to 3 and 4. I love the soundtrack, the jazz touch is such an inspired choice that works even better than Persona 3's rap and Persona 4's pop. Tokyo feels so alive in Persona 5. Legit, I struggle to come up with issues about it, its so so good.

Joker is one of the most fluid and fun newcomers we have ever seen in a Smash game. While bringing Persona to Smash would be hard, Joker I feel is great at representing Persona 5 in particular. He has the same sleek movement and mobility that Persona 5 carries. He has this sharp design that flows so well. They do a great job of representing Joker himself in Smash in terms of how he fights. Arsene at launch was a bit much, but now that he has been toned down I think he is one of the more acceptable comeback mechanics though. I legit think Joker is one of the best designed newcomers we ever got. His kit flows so naturally together and he has such a high skill cap.

Heck, Joker's challenger pack is one of the best in the game. Mementos is an amazing stage. Visually, its beautiful, and does a great job showing off Persona 5's artstyle. Gameplay wise, its great too. For casual games, it is super fun and wacky with hazards on, while being fun and playable with hazards off too. The music selection is great, especially with Persona 3 and 4 music to boot. It changing color based on what is playing also is such an inspired touch to show love towards those games as well. I do lament the lack of Life Will Change since it was in Joker's trailer, but I love what they did with Joker and his content. I also loved the spirit battles, and thought they were super creative ways to show off the Persona 5 cast.

Finally, Joker's reveal came at a perfect time for me. Late 2018-Early 2019 was one of the roughest times of my life. Many things in my life both at college and at home fell apart, and I entered one of the worst depressive spirals in my life. April was the worst of it, where it felt like nothing would work out for me. As a result, I really started to play a lot more smash, in an attempt to just push myself further. I needed something to hone myself in to distract myself from my depression. After the summer of 2019, my skill level in smash grew a lot. I had not improved this rapidly in a game since I was pushing myself in TF2 super hard over 5 years before that. Joker came out at the perfect time where I could lab him and push myself even further beyond. He is my favorite character in the game, I love his moveset and almost everything in his inclusion. If my greatest nitpick is no Life Will Change despite it being in his trailer at the game awards, you know I am basically running on fumes for things to complain about.

Hero :ulthero::ulthero2::ulthero3::ulthero4: 90% Satisfaction


Hero was one of the characters that I was absolutely not stunned by. I dont remember my ratings at the time, but I was very confident that Dragon Quest would be the next Square content we got, Geno fans be damned. When we saw Eleven, I was a little annoyed he was the default since it felt like it was shilling the switch re release, but getting Erdrick, 4, and 8 was a great touch. I love how each of their designs pops out and they all feel distinct enough as alts. Hero also is a super fun character, I love that he has his MP meter and how it forces you to play differently to gain MP. Yggdrasil is a fun stage to boot, although I lament the lack of any remixes.

My biggest gripe with Hero is that command menu and language barrier. Design wise, the command menu is super cool but it also is hard to react to if you are fighting a Hero at the same time. That reaction becomes infinitely harder if there is a language barrier. It truly is one of the objectively worst design choices that would be dealt with

Banjo :ultbanjokazooie: 100% Satisfaction

Wow what a surprise, the Crash stan likes Banjo. I am a 3D platformer fan, and Banjo is among the creme de la creme. Banjo Kazooie is one of the best games on the N64, I love it to death. I have great memories of Tooie too, especially its multiplayer. I remember Banjo being a meme tier request for a while after the Microsoft buyout of Rare. Was he likely? For a long time no. But for a long time, he was one of the most popular fan requests. Heck, for a time being, he was outright the biggest request in the West after Ridley and K Rool managed to get in.

Then Phil Spencer made one tweet during the Ballot, and the game changed. Now, Banjo was no longer this lamented, lost opportunity. There was a real chance to push for Banjo and make our voices heard. He was a real possibility. As I ran RTC, it was amazing to see Banjo develop from the low single digit chance score he was consistently at in Smash 4 to a fluctuating character that people had strong debates on. There really was only one other character that from my experience had their scores vary so much, but we will talk about him later. With Ultimate being the fan service game, it seemed like Banjo was going to have his best shot yet. Come E3 2019, he was one of their closing surprises, with them even paying homage to fellow Rare character and fan favorite K Rool's Trailer. While I do not think it hit the same twice, its clear they knew Banjo was a huge fan favorite.

God, I know some people grumbled about Banjo's execution, but I loved it. He is without a doubt the best animated character in the game. The amount of love for Banjo Kazooie you can see in every animation, from his Down Throw to his ledge hang and teeter to the talan trot as his walk. God, every single animation Banjo and Kazooie have feels so well done. They feel like a Brawl newcomer with the amount of love Ultimate's newcomers get to boot. There really are not that many frills with Banjo, he is simple and sweet. While Spiral Mountain ain't my favorite DLC stage, it is beautiful and I love the music selection. Will I bemoan how Klungo's theme made it in over either Grunty battle theme? Yeah. But I love the remixes we got. I love Gobi's Desert, Treasure Trove Cove, and especially Grant Kirkhope's brilliant new Spiral Mountain.

Terry :ult_terry: 95% Satisfaction

This is how you do a curveball pick right. I am not an SNK fan, but Terry really does show that they have a great legacy. For starters, Terry objectively has a top three Challenger Pack. Yeah, turns out that having 50 songs, a beautiful and fun stage, and a solid character is great to see. I remember Terry was a sleeper hit, and that our delay for his satisfaction rating lead him to be a strong fan favorite in execution. I gotta say, I see why. Terry was done so well, he is the best animated Fighting Game Character, as well as the one I feel translated the best to smash to boot.

The only reason he did not get a perfect score is that I can't play him to save my life. Auto Turn around and command imputs fry my brain. If I was being completely objective, Terry has a top 3 challenger pack in terms of content and is in my opinion the best designed of the fighting game characters. Except that GO! is kinda snowbally.

Also KOF Stadium is one of my go to Omega and Battlefield forms, it is so pretty I need to say that again.

Byleth :ultbyleth::ultbylethf: 45% Satisfaction

Byleth to me was one of the weirdest characters to think about throughout smash speculation. When they were revealed, I had a lukewarm leaning negative reaction. Then I had a backlash to the backlash to the Byleth backlash, where it made me more dug in about my dislike for the character. Nowadays, I am kind of in the middle of sorts.

For starters, my issue with Byleth is not that Byleth is a Fire Emblem pick. I love Fire Emblem Three Houses, it was my game of the year for 2019. I also am in the minority where I think Fire Emblem is actually in a pretty solid spot in terms of representation. Yes, we have two echos and one semi clone, but I do love how Marth Ike and Robin rep Fire Emblem. I even like Corrin, despite my dislike of Fates, due to their circumstances. They wanted to push a Nintendo game during Smash 4's DLC cycle, and there were slim pickings. Even if I would have probably done Elma instead due to my dislike of Fates, I understand Corrin and I do think the manakete transformation aspect is a really cool way to show off a recurring FE trait. So long as the FE pick had a strong moveset, I would probably be fine with their inclusion.

Then we have Byleth. Byleth feels like four decent movesets stitched together like a chimera, to their detriment. I like how the whipsword works. I like the ideas of a lance axe or even bow based moveset. But none of these get enough time to truly shine through, leading to Byelth feeling like just another swordsman at the end of the day. If Byelth focused on the whipsword or we got one of the three lords instead, I feel like we could have gotten a pick that I would have enjoyed more. Instead, we get a moveset that feels like it just is fighting against itself at points to me. While Corrin's moveset blended swordplay and transformations very well, Byelths tries and fails to highlight the weapons triangle. Also they have outright the worst looking final smash in the game. It is so ugly seeing a sothis png with Byleth's 3D model.

Byelth likely would have gotten a 50%, but they have objectively the worst Challenger Pack in all of Smash Ultimate. First off, how dare you not have God Shattering Star, shame on you. Ok but in all seriousness, Garreg Mach sucks. I do not need every Challenger Pack to offer me a competitive stage. Something cool like KOF Stadium or Mementos will suffice. But god I hate Garreg Mach. The students look so bad in the background. Compare them to the Persona, Fatal Fury, or even the Xenoblade 2 cameos and you can see how bad they look. The stage also is super boring as well, with it just being a travelling stage to 4 locations in Garreg Mach. If we traveled throughout the stage more like Delphino, I might have liked it more. I know some people talk about motion sickness for Northern Cave, but the transitions here made me the most sick to my stomach.

Fighters Pass 1 90% Satisfaction
 

Depressed Gengar

Hana Is Best Girl
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
4,883
Location
The Johto Region
3DS FC
2922-0445-5244
Ugh. This pass.

Joker:
I think I actually gave my thoughts here when the first satisfaction ratings for him were going on, but whatever. Even if Joker didn't quite have the historical presence pretty much every third party that wasn't Bayonetta that came before him did, he's still coming coming from a fairly noteworthy franchise, so he isn't a bad third party pick or anything, I'll give him that. But his actual implementation... not great, mostly because of how Arsene his handled. It's not accurate to how Personas work, and it's just another gimmick that's just not good.

Joker satisfaction: 35%

Hero:
Man, this actually the one I should feel happy about. Even though I haven't gotten to complete it, I've grown to quite like Dragon Quest 11. Of course Dragon Quest was an actual huge franchise when it comes to gaming, and not just "popular", so they're respectable picks on that front.

Unfortunately though, there's issues here. The much more minor one being how poor their music selection was. Yeah, it's not something that's the fault of Hero, but it still makes the overall DQ content feel much more barren. It's almost definitely licensing issues, but it still dampers things a little bit. But then there's their moveset, or more specifically, the menu. Man this thing is such a momentum killer when trying to actually use it in a fight and not for goofy shenanigans. Otherwise they're fine, but still. Again, it's a shame, I could've ended up loving them retroactively, but that's not how it is.

Hero satisfaction: 50%

Banjo:
I'm not even bothering to go deep with this one.

Banjo: 0%

Terry:
Yeaaaaaaah, I'm pretty much just repeating what I said about Ken minus the echo part again. KOF is pretty noteworthy of a series, though still not on the same size of many before it, but still, more noteworthy than other third party series we've gotten before. But yet again, as I said with Ken, lots of copying and pasting KOF's mechanics just does not work with SSB's simplicity at all.

Terry satisfaction: 30%

Byleth:
Speaking of repeating things from previous characters, I get to bring up the amount of FE characters again. Yay. Even as an FE fan I am tired of FE characters. I'm also tired of blatant marketing picks. If a hypothetical FE character who's also a blatant marketing pick were exciting enough I could tolerate them, but Byleth, even if they're unique, ain't exciting. And I could at least forgive Corrin in hindsight since, considering For's DLC's were on a handheld system and, more importantly, a dying system, and the fact that all the bigger stuff was being saved for a much better moment, a marketing pick was a lot more forgiving. They're not the lowest point of Ultimate, or even the lowest point of this pass, but still, this is such a low point.

Byleth satisfaction: 0%

Fighter Pass 1:
... Yeah, not great. Hero was OK though I guess.

Fighter Pass 1 satisfaction: 10%
 

Sari

Smash Master
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
4,347
Location
New Jersey
NNID
Villager49
Switch FC
SW-2215-0173-2152
:ultjoker:
Satisfaction: 70%
His TGA announcement was easily one of the top 3 most shocking Smash reveals ever imo (along with Snake and Sonic). He's in a similar spot to Kazuya for me where I think their inclusion is cool and don't have anything else to really say about them. Just a nice, solid pick for Smash representing a popular series. Mementos is easily my favorite new stage in Ultimate, while the Beneath the Mask track is my favorite new remix in Ultimate.


:ulthero3:
Satisfaction: 90%
I'll admit I sort of did jump onto the Erdrick bandwagon once the first rumors started, but it wasn't without reason. I enjoyed playing DQ VII prior to the leak and found a lot of enjoyment in DQ VIII. The reveal was great and I was super hyped to see Eight make it in as one of the alts. Now granted the down-B move is a bit annoying since it's random, but when it's the RNG jank that makes Hero so fun to use.


:ultbanjokazooie:
Satisfaction: 75%
I've never been able to play Banjo by the time he released so I wasn't too hyped for him. Still though, seeing one of the most requested picks for Smash was hard to not be excited for. They're a fun and goofy cartoon duo that they fit into Smash just perfectly.

I'm really glad we're going to be getting Banjo on NSO online. Once I play it I think I'll be able to enjoy Banjo in Smash before, but as it stands I think him and Kazooie are great additions.


:ult_terry:
Satisfaction: 1.000.000% 100%
This should come as a surprise to absolutely no one (if you are surprised then click here). I've gushed about SNK/Terry long enough in this thread so I'll try to keep this as brief as possible.

Terry was one of my most wanted characters even before the SNK leak. I never thought he would actually get in, so when I heard about the SNK leak I legit couldn't think of anything else that week other than my pipe dream actually coming true.

While I was happy for Isabelle getting in, there are a fair amount of things I'd change with her moveset. But Terry is absolutely perfect and is so much fun to play as. The tons of SNK love we got in the form of the KoF stage and the 50 songs were a well welcomed bonus.

My favorite newcomer in Ultimate without question. And as far as their general inclusion goes, probably my all-time favorite Smash character after Wario.


:ultbyleth:
Satisfaction: 60%
Here's a character that has not aged well for me.

Full disclaimer: I absolutely loved Three Houses and was really hoping it'd get a character in Smash. Granted I would've preferred Edelgard or Dimitri, but I was pretty glad to see Byleth get confirmed (I think I gave him a 90% satisfaction the first time around). But then as time went on, I started to not like Byleth more and more. I didn't know what it was that made me not like him, but after a few months I quickly realized why.

Byleth has one of the most awkward movesets in the whole game from a design perspective. He feels like 4 characters clumped together in an effort to make him not another swordfighter. I get that Smash has to cut away from the source sometimes, but Byleth using the trademark weapons of the House Leaders feels so... weird. Yes I know he can technically use them in-game, but they're pretty much always canonically shown being used by the House Leaders so it's like if Luke Skywalker used Darth Maul's lightsaber. I really feel like they would've been better off focusing on just one of the House Leaders or have Byleth's moveset revolve around gambits/Divine Pulse.

Byleth's final smash is also the lamest in the entire game since it's just a png of Sothis followed by a whip sword attack. The battalion/gambit system was right there and yet they messed this up.

This is not to say that I don't like Byleth, in fact I think they're still an alright character and I much prefer their inclusion over Corrin's. But I feel like having either one of the House Lords be playable or giving Byleth a more character-driven moveset would've been the better route to go for.

-----

Fighter Pass 1
Satisfaction: 85%
The average score of the above characters would technically be 79%, however I'm gonna bring it up to 85% because of the other things like Joker's stage and Terry's general inclusion which I would rate above a 100% if I could.

Overall this was a great pass. Even Byleth who was my least favorite character in the pass was still a welcomed addition due to the Three Houses content. I'm probably going to be in the minority when I say that I much preferred FP1 over FP2.
 

Phoenix Douchebag

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 19, 2020
Messages
1,044
Location
ZE BATH
Jesus i have to put thoughts into all of these, get ready because it's a long one.

But first up, How About Another Joke, Sakurai?

Joker is the worst DLC reveal to me, slightly better than PP Yes, but Joker's announcement actually made me not be excited for Smash Ultimate DLC.

Now i must admit Persona looks neat, and it has a lot of fans.................im not one of them.

Joker to me signifies a real problem with Smash Ultimate and probably future entries, and that is the death of Smash as a Nintendo-centric franchise, instead relying only on the trendiest video game characters around (yes i know Persona debuted in the 90s, but we didn't get an old Persona rep, we got the rep from the hottest Persona game at the time, and Atlus didn't shame away from overexposing it) tossing aside years of Nintendo history for random video game characters to boost the game's audience, tried to be broad as possible, killing the core appeal of a franchise.

A lot of franchises do this, Dead or Alive tried to distance itself from the fanservice and it lost the few people that played it, Assasin's Creed after 2 decided to try every single thing that is trendy in the gaming industry and it has become the punchline of the gaming community as a result of it, Fortnite has become really hated, and whenever a crossover is added into Fortnite, it always feels off. That's what Joker signifies to me, add the latest and hottest General Gaming characters into a Nintendo game crossover, and not even port the game the character is known for on the Switch.

Even if i'm not against guest characters, i do think some guests are better choices than others because they fit a certain theme. The TMNT in Injustice felt right because the TMNT were also Comic Book Characters like many of the DC characters in that roster and they have crossed over with Batman, there was a correlation. Kratos in MK fits right in as MK and GoW are both gorefests and really violent, but what does Negan have to do with Tekken other than Harada being a fanboy of the Walking Dead? Not all guests are fitting choices, and i do believe Joker is the most out of place choice in FP1.

Simply because Persona is a franchise that not only has barely relation to Nintendo, it has barely any presence of it and it refuses to release their MAIN entries on to Switch. "B-B-B-B-BUT PERSONA Q IS ON 3DEEEESS" Yeah, that's not a main entry, nice try. Next thing you know people are gonna use a 5-second cameo on a Nintendo game to excuse that character into Smash, gross.

I prefer my guest characters in Smash to be closely tied to Nintendo. Mega Man, Simon Belmont, Pac-Man, Banjo-Kazooie. At least if they are not tied to Nintendo, they must have some major presence on Nintendo systems. Ryu doesn't scream Nintendo, but Street Fighter 2 on SNES was a big seller and you can play all main Street Fighter except 4 and 5 on the Switch, almost all of the Neo Geo Fatal Fury and KoF games are on the Switch, so Terry and his company have Nintendo presence.

Even when it comes to PS originating franchises, Kingdom Hearts now has its games on the Swtich (we will talk about certain issues on Sora's day) Crash Bandicoot has basically all his major recent releases on Switch, and Final Fantasy 7, the game that is known for beign THE GAME where Square said **** off to Nintendo and went to the PS1, is now on the Switch, yes its not the Remake, but at least it WAS the game that people know Cloud for. People know Joker for Persona 5, not for some random 3DS game that is only brought up as an argument to defend Joker's inlcusion, unless you're telling me people played a random 3DS game and went "oh wow, this truly captures the Persona 5 experience, now i see why everyone loves Joker and Persona 5". No Atlus, im not gonna buy a random warriors spin-off when i never even played the game of origin said Spin-off is based on. Im not gonna buy a PS4 System JUST to play a character's game of origin, i need money to eat, this is an expensive hobby.

When FF7, the game that symbolizes **** You Nintendo is in a Nintendo system after Cloud got in Smash and your trendy game isn't despite having your character be in Smash, as well you know you did something wrong.

I don't care if this pisses off people, i don't think Joker should have been in Smash. What's next, people are gonna campaign for Character to be in Nick All Star Brawl whose show was never broadcasted on Nickelodeon? Give me a break. (OH BUT THEY WERE BROADCASTER IN INTERNATIONAL VERSIONS OF NICK GAH-HYUK)

(and before you ask, no, if i was in charge of Smash's roster Cloud and Snake probably wouldn't be in Smash either, although even Snake had a remake of his own game on the Gamecube, and as i mentioned earlier Cloud's home game and the entire PS1 FF trilogy is on Switch, that is miles more than Joker has ever done)

Now, if Hell Freezes over and Persona 5 comes to Switch, you can quote me and i will eat my words and will give Joker and Persona 5 a second chance, but for now:

0% Satisfaction.

Now, onto a more positive reveal.

Prostitutes are seemingly upset.

Now this....................THIS is what i look into a Guest character in Smash. A character that not only has presence on Nintendo systems, a character is closely tied to Nintendo, but a character that HELPED Nintendo get a bigger audience. Dragon Quest is so big in Japan, it only releases on Saturdays because otherwise everyone will skip work and school. A character that has interacted with Nintendo's crew even before Smash thanks to Fortune Street, a franchise that helped popularize a genre in Japan, and an icon of gaming in general. THIS is what Smash guests should be.

Sometimes i always wonder why DQ never catched up in the west, even though DQ in my opinion despite using Akira Toriyama's character designs, has always felt less ehm........."weeby" than Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts and yet those franchise always were more popular.

I will admit, when Hero was beign speculated (well, Arusu in this case) i had no interest, he seemed very basic to me. As someone who preferred Geno back in the day, i coulnd't care less, i found him boring but i respected the choice, Dragon Quest is iconic, no question about it, and it's a franchise that even if is mostly seen as uninteresting in the west, deserves more recognition.

So when the reveal rolled around, i was okay, i liked the inclusion, and being announced alongside the other character below helped. Then i downloaded, and since i liked playing him for a bit, i decided to play Luminary's game of origin, DQ XI S, since it was coming to the Switch, since i do enjoy RPGs even if most of their characters are not my main choices for Smash (i prefer platformer characters as i feel those translate the best into Smash) and ohh boy..........


Dragon Quest XI S is one of the best games i have ever played. As an introduction to the series is an amazing game, a classic RPG that came STRAIGHT outta the SNES era like Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG and Final Fantasy VI, brought into the modern age with beautiful graphics that bring the Toriyama artstyle to life. Great music thanks to the orchestral remaster of the Switch port, a simplistic yet fun Turn Based Combat system that reflects the days old, and a story that that relies on how it's not the destination, but the journey and the friends you met along the way all with their unique powers and personalities. Serena, Veronica, Erik, Sylvando, Jade, Rab, the one character that im not gonna spoil (who is my favorite of all) all of them were great. and that Post Game, dear god that post game was great. If only Kingdom Hearts got this amount of care into its Switch Ports instead of being....................ugh.............Cloud versions.

I'm now a Dragon Quest fan, and i hope to play more games in the future.

See Joker, this is what happens when you bring your games into a Nintendo system, you make new fans. This is why im so happy that Dragon Quest is in Smash now, and they made the most of it, that's how you cross over.

The only bad 2 things are well. One, the fact that we got the Midi songs suck. As those songs sound great in orchestral form, not in Joel's Convert to Midi files.

The other beign, i don't like to play as Hero very much. I find his moveset to be boring and yet overly complicated at the same time. As most of his moves are basic sword strikes and all the cool spells that make him his own are used only for his specials, especially his down special, which i find hard to use. Also despite beign seen as a very anti-competitive character, i prefer to play as Hero in 1v1s over Free-For-All as trying to use his command spell while having to worry about stage hazards, 3 opponents at once and Items going into my way...........yeah, no thanks. I really think his Smash Attacks should have been Magic moves as Well, with the gimmick being that once you ran out of magic they become basic sword strikes.

Still, i think it was a good inlcusion, and defintely made me see Ultimate's DLC as still salvageable after PP and Joker.

65% Satisfaction.

But now, into the main treat.

Banjo after receiving his mail in June 11, colorized.

While no Smash reveal will ever top Simon to me, there is one that clearly is the highlight of Smash DLC to me, that one beign Banjo.

The fact that he is even ****ing here in the first place, it's astounding. Banjo-Kazooie literally left Nintendo in 2002, and yet their comeback makes it feel like they never left. But why are they so important and beloved? Sure, their games are beloved, but they are agruably the nichest character on the Fighter Passes aside from Byleth.

The reason is simple that Banjo Kazooie, to me at least, are Nintendo's equivalent to Oswald the Lucky Rabbit from Disney. A character created to fit a certain universe, closely associated with a certain brand and group of people, one day taken away due to copyright, and after years of beign separated, they finally come togheter. When Epic Mickey released, Oswald coming back was a big deal, after DECADES of being an Universal property, he comes back to the world of Disney to finally join his brother from another speices. (Too bad Disney put Oswald on the Vault, you think he would have joined Kingdom Hearts by now since he is a favorite of Nomura)

Banjo is no different. Created by many of the same developers that made DKC, his design is one who feels right at home with the rest of Nintendo's cast like Mario, Link, Donkey Kong, and Kirby. His cartoony appereance and quirky personality is a perfect blend of Mario's cheerful attitude and DK's laid back persona, accompanied by his fellow loyal friend, Kazooie.

Not only were Banjo & Kazooie prominent in a lot of 90s era Nintendo material in advertisements and commercials and featured alongside the likes of Diddy Kong, they were LEGALLY Nintendo characters:


So its no small feat to bring these two back after years of being essentially left to dust. I played Banjo Kazooie and Tooie as a kid, and while i never beat them, those games were good, they may have not controlled as well as Mario 64 but the writing was hilarious, i love British Self-Deprecating Humor and that game had it in spades, and i did play as Banjo a lot in DKR. Plus Banjo & Kazooie translate well into Smash, and they fit right home in a roster filled with Nintendo characters.

But obviously getting them was a hassle. Sure Sora had Disney to deal with, but for years Nintendo and Microsoft were outright RIVALS on the gaming market, at least Nintendo has collaborated with Disney since their Hanafuda days. Obviously nowadays Microsoft is more platform agnostic, as seen with MC coming to Nintendo platforms, so things were looking up, but could Sakurai really go out of his way to add a pair characters that were of western origin, and haven't been in a new game since 2008?

Well if they weren't i wouldn't be rating them that's for sure. While i was dissapointed that Rare Replay is not coming to Switch (that whole "Lol buy and Xbox" comment really ticked me off) at least we are getting BK on N64 Online, so hopefully Tooie follows suit.

As for Banjo & Kazooie in Smash, they are great. Since Smash 4 we have been increasingly getting overly complex characters that are unwiedly to play as and Ults DLC only made things worse, but Banjo is an exception to this trend, being closer to Ultimate's base newcomers and Melee-Brawl era characters. They feel fun and great, and the Breegull Bash is a great Move to wack your opponents (and Kazooie) with.

Though the specials kinda suck. Rear Egg eggsplodes too soon, Breegull Blasting isn't as intuitive as Mega Man's buster, Wonder Wing didn't need the 5 Wing Limit handicap, and Steve's Up Special should have been Banjo's, as Flying was one of the best parts of Banjo Kazooie. Shock Jump Spring feels to similar to Sonic's Spring, Mega Man's Rush Coil and Pac-Man's Pac-Jump.

But Banjo in Smash man, this was great to see, hopefully this means Banjo could come back soon...............right?

Satisfaction: 85%

Mobile Mammal


Terry is an unique case for me. Since i live in Chile, Latinamerica, i am much more familiar with SNK than the average American gamer. You guys merely adopted the weebness, WE were Born in it, MOLDED by it. Here in LATAM KoF is only next to SF and MK.

I admit i know more SNK for their Metal Slug games, but i still knew about Fatal Fury and KoF even if i never played a single one in my life until his reveal. So i had an okay reaction to Terry, i knew who he was and while i had other choices i preferred, there could have been far worse choices as well.

Terry's such a cool character, and he does have an air of carisma and stands out from the typical "Karateka in a GI Shoto" that so many main FG of the Nineties relied on. His moveset is also great, and THANK ****ING GOD that he doesn't have the same gimmick as Ryu and Ken, meaning that i don't have to worry about pressing down tilt too hard. Yes, he still is pressure sensitive with his special moves, but that is far less of a hassle to me. I do like his desesperation move Gimmick, and i love doing a Power Geyser to my opponent, but i don't think Terry should be able to Spam Them after reaching 100%, when characters like Banjo have to worry about only having 5 Side Specials per stock, it doesn't seem fair and balanced to me.

But to be honest i kinda would have preferred Kyo as the SNK rep. Terry's great but KoF is basically SNK's most iconic series nowadays and has been since 98, so i think Kyo feels like a more appropriate choice since he is the main star of SNK's biggest franchise, while Terry is just in those games for fanservice sake and legacy reasons. Then again this only could be my opinion only because out of the SNK games i bought on the Eshop i preferred KoF 97, 98 and 2002 over the one FF i bought, Garou Mark of the Wolves which i absolutely suck at (the graphics are pretty tho)

Also most KoF fans that i met are abosulte scumbag elitist, i will never complain about Melee fans beign elitist again, Jesus. Still a good choice tho.

70% Satisfaction.

Perhaps i treated you too harshly


This is the moment i would got angry and get upset at Sakurai for adding a character from an oversaturated franchise that quite frankly is overexposed and overhyped and is given preferential treatment.

Yes, i believe Fire Emblem is oversaturated. It has 8 characters, it has 3 stages, more than WarioLAND, 3 Assist Trophies while DK has 1 and Yoshi has none, and FAR TOO MANY REMIXES.

Yet, i can't be mad. I know for a fact that Sakurai was wise enough to announce more DLC before Byleth was revealed, although the reveal itself of By was pretty ****ty, and the attempt at "Lol too many swordfighters" joke felt dumb. POINTING OUT YOUR PROBLEMS DOESN'T MAKE THEM GO AWAY.

But i don't hate Byleth themselves. They are simple in design and thankfully the movest is decent enough and not overly complicated (i don't like Robin's magic resources), and while i do agree that Smash would benefit a lot by adding more cartoony characters like Rayman or characters who wield other weapons than a Sword like Bandanna Dee's Spear, Nothing about Byleth themselves is what i disliked. It's the circumstances. After 4 guest characters, after 7 Fire Emblem characters, the next character you decide to add is this one? It's not as stupid as PP as By actually is a character and not a ****ty punchline, but you can see the problem.

But there's one thing i do appreciate about By..........................it's a Nintendo character. Yes, that is the reason i don't hate them. You have to understand the context. I play Smash for Nintendo, it's a Nintendo game on a Nintendo console where you play as Nintendo characters on Nintendo stages while Nintendo music plays using Nintendo items played by Nintendo fans. I love gaming in general, but i feel crossovers should have a theme and motif, and when you expand that theme too much, it becomes a mess. Look at Fortnite, where they add all random crossovers: Rick and Morty, Superman, Avengers, John Wick, Star Wars, what do these franchises have in common?, it's a mess, and nowadays being added to Fortnite feels like a sellout move.


THAT is what i don't want Smash to become, a sellout series, which feels more and more like it when every single character feels like a company wanting that peice of the Smash pie. Even if i enjoy Banjo, Hero and Terry, i don't think adding them in the same game plus the other guests in this DLC was a good idea, and this is not counting all the other guests in the base roster, there are more Guest Character in Ultimate than Nintendo characters in Smash 64, which is the whole roster btw, more and more im really starting to get tired of guests in Smash, they no longer feel like a special moment, they feel like the norm, and it's not special anymore, it's boring and kinda tiresome. Imagine if other fighting games had the same amount of guest character ration as Smash brothers, i can garantee you it would not look pretty (and keep in Mind Smash still shows SOME restraint in their choices) This is also why none of the DLC characters will reach 100%, im getting real tired of 3rd parties at this point and while im not gonna hate them just because they are not Nintendo characters, i do reduce a 10% score to each and every one of them based on them beign guests alone (Simon is an exception because my bond with Simon is too strong, and Banjo because he is basically a Nintendo character to me)

So Byleth for as OVERsaturated the Fire Emblem franchise is, makes me glad to see at least ONE Nintendo character. It helps that Byleth's home game released BEFORE they were announced unlike Corrin and the Localization Disaster (well, Disaster in general) known as Fire Emblem Dates, that game made me NOT wanna try Fire Emblem for the rest of my life, but Three Houses is far better recieved so maybe it's time to give Fire Emblem a second chance, i'm willing to turn over a new leaf. And at least i'm happy that Byleth wasn't the Only Nintendo DLC character, and i would later get one (well, two) Nintendo character that i actually liked, even if i wish there was a Nintendo character that wasn't a "shill" pick for lack of a better word. If i were to replace some DLC fighters i would replace Kazuya, Sephiroth and Joker before Byleth, so congrats Byleth, you are not the worst.

Still, too apathetic to bother to buy them, maybe someday.

20% Satisfaction.


As for my Fighter Pass satisfaction rating is.................



None.

Not because i hate the Fighter Pass, but by virtue of having Joker (who i refuse to buy) and Byleth (who i don't really care about) i didn't bought the Pass and instead bought Banjo, Terry and Hero on their own. I prefer rating characters individually anyway.


But if i had to compare it to FP2, i do think that it is Slightly better than Fighter Pass 2, although FP2 had a better Nintendo/3rd Party balance.. If you think i was harsh on Joker you wouldn't like what i have to say to Kazuya and Sephi.
 
Last edited:

DrifloonEmpire

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2019
Messages
1,387
I don't care if this pisses off people, i don't think Joker should have been in Smash. What's next, people are gonna campaign for Character to be in Nick All Star Brawl whose show was never broadcasted on Nickelodeon? Give me a break. (OH BUT THEY WERE BROADCASTER IN INTERNATIONAL VERSIONS OF NICK GAH-HYUK)
There really are people who want Steven Universe and Luz Owl House in the game, a minority but it exists, and it's f****** stupid....
 

Sid-cada

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
1,645
Ack, though I had more time...

Isabelle - 50%

I knew that any Animal Crossing character would probably end up similar to Villager beforehand, mostly getting scraps, and what do you know, I was right. I understand her popularity, but as a character I'm not a fan. I would be a bit nicer if she was more unique, but as I was never a fan of Animal Crossing I was not going to like her inclusion alone.

Ken - 45%

I don't think fighting game inputs work well in Smash's "simple is better" style, but at least as an echo he's not resource intensive. I understand his inclusion, but overall I don't care mutch about echos in the first place.

Incineroar - 50%

Incinerroar is okay for the seemingly mandatory Pokémon character. I kinda made my peace about having that sort of thing, though prior I was rooting for Decidueye. He works, and I somewhat enjoy his inclusion, but overall? I still think I would have preferred the bird.

Piranha Plant - 40%

On some level, it has a fun and unique move set. On the other, it's easily the most replaceable and forgettable character on the roster. While I know it's a tradition to add "surprise" characters, at least they have the honor of adding new series into the mix, which Plant does not have. I think it's probably for the best he stays here.

Joker - 40%

Having never played a Persona game, or Sony system, and not even aware of P5 existence beforehand, Joker's not for me. His move set didn't exactly win me over, either, not finding it that interesting. His inclusion was not a good start for me, and kind of colored my perception of the pass going forward.

Hero - 65%

Hero was okay for me. I definitely wanted a Dragon Quest character in, though I would have gone with the Blue Slime instead. His move set treads that line between gimmicky without being overly complex, so I'm perfectly fine with him in.

Banjo & Kazooie - 80%

The closest I got to a character I wanted out of the DLC. I want to rate them higher, but I just don't have that connection to make me over the moon about them, considering I never got to play their games. I wish I did. Still, seeing someone that was basically seen as a never-ever after their departure who really should have stuck around strikes a cord for me, and I'm happy they made it in.

Terry - 35%

I can't do a Quarter Circle Forward. And you're telling me that your main draw is that "I have a more complex move set that Ryu?" I'm sorry, but I'm inherently not going to like your inclusion. I specifically go to Smash to avoid that stuff. 50 music and a stage isn't something I'm going to shill money for, either. Like I said with Ken, simple is better, and Terry stomps all over that.

Byleth - 50%

I recognize that Byleth was a poorly timed character that probably should have been saved for the second pass after it it was more clear that Three Houses was a success. I'm over the hate now and recognize who they are, but I think Byleth ended up trying too hard to make themselves unique and ended up with a somewhat half-baked move set that fails to seperate from others.

Fighters Pass 1 - 54%

After looking at the average of my score for pass 1, I think this is roughly appropriate. While I have some good things to say about it, overall it was a fairly mixed bag. The fact that I didn't buy any one of them speaks volumes, I think.
 

SneakyLink

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
9,102
Location
Land of Oz
NNID
bne9635
Switch FC
SW-6259-3694-6593
We never saw it coming!
Joker: 20%

I missed the reveal live because I thought there would be nothing. Regardless, the thing about Joker I enjoy most is the stage aesthetic. It looks so beautiful and vibrant. Everything else isn't my personal style, though the music is nice at times.

Still waiting for Brave to be revealed...wait.
Hero: 70%

The biggest gripe I have with Hero is the music, which is understandable due to issues with the late Koichi Sugiyama. His moveset is fun to mess around with and the stage is beautiful.

So Smash is what Stop n Swop II was meant to allude too...
Banjo & Kazooie: 100%

This is one of the few characters I legitimately got hyped over. I love everything about the duo's inclusion, from the moveset that has a ton of references, to the music, (almost) to the stage. It feels like a love letter to the fans.

OKAY!
Terry: 80%

Terry Bogard wins the pass of music quantity alone. The songs are great too and the stage is great for fun matches. His moveset is no slouch either, with each and every hit being satisfying to land.

From Teacher to Master
Byleth: 40%

I concede that I don't enjoy the Fire Emblem series. However I will say Byleth is my personal favorite play style of the cast we got from the series. The stage and music feel a bit hollow to me... except for the Gatekeeper cameo.

Pass 1 Satisfaction: 70%

Banjo & Kazooie are my personal favorites of the pass with Hero and Terry close behind. Byleth's moveset is really fun to use, while Joker falls flat to me. Overall I was satisfied with this pass.
 

Ramen Tenghostku

Meiniac
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
14,857
Location
Somewhere
Switch FC
SW-6056-3633-7710
Pass 1 ratings

:ultjoker:Looking cool, Joker!
Satisfaction: 90%
Joker may have been the best character to start dlc off with. Really made us have to expect the unexpected. As a character himself, Joker's soooo fun to use. Extremely flashy and fits this game surprisingly well. Also, the single best Final Smash in the game, no debate.

:ulthero: I NEED A HERO! I'M HOLDING OUT FIR A HERO TIL THE END OF THE NIGHT!
Satisfaction: 70%
Out of all the characters in this pass, I'd say Hero made the most sense. Dragon Quest is essentially the og JRPG series, so I respect it's inclusion here with Hero. Gameplay-wise however, Hero's a really interesting situation. I found em a little too reliant on chance and stuff to really consider using em seriously. That being said, they're bonkers fun to mess around with, and works as a pretty entertaining "for lulz" character.


:ultbanjokazooie: The Rare occasion
Satisfaction: 50%
Happy for their fans, but they're a little too vanilla for my tastes. Not bad per say, just... average. At least happy the general Smash fandom got a huge never ever want, and that their inclusion didn't end up jeopardizing the one Microsoft character I was extremely adamant on. For me personally these two are just there for me.

:ult_terry: R U OKAY?
Satisfaction: 90%
I thought Terry would've been a fine and dandy inclusion beforehand, but man, I love him so much. Something about his moveset, his personality, all of it clicks. He also brings the best fighter pack overall, with one of the best stages in the game, oodles of awesome tracks, and of course, a darn fine character on his own.

:ultbyleth:Let the lesson begin!
Satisfaction: 95%
I was one of the very very few people who wanted Byleth, and I gotta say, I'm pretty satisfied. I mostly wanted em for their moveset potential and they delivered for the most part. Just an overall blast to use. My only real complaint is that I probably would've preferred they go all in on the sword of the creator rather than all the relics in one frankenstein moveset, but that's a bit of a nitpick. Overall, my favorite fighter in pass 1.


Overall Satisfaction: 79%
Fot the first wave of DLC, I'd say this was a pretty solid lineup here. A mix of characters that made sense here in smash, and characters that brought something new to the table. I prefer pass 2 overall, but this was no slouch either
 
Last edited:

2006ToyotaTacoma

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
269
Location
Aboard the Ark of Yamato
You wanna know how I got these scars?
I know Joker was quite the out-of-left-field pick to many, but I was totally neutral towards him. I was surprised as well but the hype was mellowed considering I wasn't there to see it live, and the YouTube thumbnail kinda gave it away. Couple that with a complete lack of history with either the Persona or Shin Megami Tensei series, and you have a character I was bewildered by yet also completely apathetic towards.

Moveset's alright. It's fun and flashy but after playing my first Persona game earlier this year, it doesn't really feel like he comes from Persona in terms of how his moveset functions. I wish we had more Personas to choose from, like Pixie or Jack Frost. That said, his Final Smash is easily one of the best in the game.

Stage is definitely one of the best of the DLC, hands down. Beautiful, filled with little details and design choices that I just love, and the fact that the stage's aesthetic changes with the music
is insane. Overall they nailed it with the stage.

Persona music is banging, there's no denying that, and the new remixes that we did get are some definite bangers. That said there are some glaring absences, especially Life Will Change and Blooming Villain.

My absolute biggest complaint with Joker and the Persona pack as a whole is that it's WAY too centric on Persona 5. There's a whole damn series there to represent! I really wish we had more content from other Persona games, and maybe even some content from the mainline SMT games, but it is what it is.

Overall, he was a pretty surprising pick with a neat moveset, incredible stage, and some good music
and is brought down by the lack of representation of other Persona games.


:ultjoker:Satisfaction Level: 75%

Quite Disgruntled Gardening Tools
I had little prior knowledge of Dragon Quest before Hero's inclusion, with my only knowledge of the series being the slimes. That said, I was initially disappointed at the Hero and I am guilty as charged when I say this, I thought he was just another anime swordsman. However, as time went on, I grew to appreciate Dragon Quest's legacy and prominence, especially in Japan, and the Sakurai Presents definitely won me over with his moveset. Speaking of which...

The moveset is easily the most fun and chaotic of the entire DLC and probably in all of Ultimate. You ever play an 8 player FFA with all Hero's?
.
.
It's Whack (Badum tsk)

Hero's moveset is easily the highlight of his pack, with the random elements giving the character so much more depth and possibilities. Definitely a main to casual parties.

Yggdrasil's Altar is a pretty good stage. Has some mellow cameos compared to the rest of the packs, is absolutely breathtaking, and even has some random elements of it's own! Other than that it's a pretty alright stage.
Here's where it really gets negative here, and Imma be real with y'all: Hero's music is absolute garbage. It's easily the worst of the 1st Fighter's Pass and probably the worst of all the DLC's, given they're all subpar Midi's. And Sugiyama's no better either (well, WAS no better). Easily brings the rest of the pack down.

Overall a mild reveal, a banger of a moveset, a good stage and some pretty garbage music imo.


:ulthero::ulthero2::ulthero3::ulthero4:Satisfaction Level: 60%

Gyuh-Huh!
Banjo was one of my most wanted characters going into Ultimate, and was absolutely beyond hyped that they managed to get in. I grew up playing Banjo on the N64 at my dentist's office (I didn't have a N64 at home) and loved it to death. I wasn't really into speculation until Ultimate but I was happy to see he had a large fanbase, and our prayers had finally been answered! Easily the best reveal of the 1st pass.

Moveset wise Banjo's great. Yeah he's a little vanilla and definitely annoying to fight against, but to me it's balanced out by the amount of love put into his moveset and animations. It really feels like Banjo got ripped straight from his home game and put into Smash. Not my favorite moveset of the 1st pass but still absolutely adorable.

I know a lot of people don't like Spiral Mountain because of it's motion sickness inducing animation, but I'm unaffected. Once you get past it it's one of the most beautiful stages, chocked with references to the original game and the cameos all have their own character and style to them. Absolutely one of my favorite stages in the game.

Music's incredible and probably my favorite lineup in the pass, and Grant Kirkhope returning to compose Spiral Mountain was borderline emotional. I don't need to say anything else it really is the highlight of this pass imo.


Overall Banjo basically hits every mark for me.

:ultbanjokazooie:
Satisfaction Level: 100%


[He wasn't Okay]
Terry would have been an absolutely out of left field pick, probably even more so than Joker, had he not been basically spoiled by Nintendo himself. That said, I was definitely interested to see how another FG character could work. Hype wise, I was pretty mellow yet still interested in him overall.

Moveset though Terry definitely hits the mark, being probably tied with Hero for being the most fun moveset of the 2nd pass. You could tell Sakurai had fun designing Terry, and the amount of personality that shines through his taunts and moves is insane. Not to mention how satisfying it is to land a good combo or a Buster Wolf.

King of Fighters Stadium is absolutely one of the most fun stages in the game. It gets absolutely chaotic even with just four players and the sheer impact that smashing a fighter through the walls has is absolutely incredible to feel. Not to mention all the KOF, FF and other characters making an appearance in the background.

There's no denying Terry's music list is by far the best in terms of value: +50 songs from across SNK's catalog is f****** bonkers! Not to mention this includes some absolute bangers like Psycho Soldier, the Metal Slug theme and Soy Sauce for Geese. Definitely one of the best music lineups in the pass.

Overall Terry's a character I would never have expected to match Banjo, but his fun moveset and absolute smorgasbord of content help him get there!

:ult_terry:
Satisfaction Level: 100%


When those dislikes hit 50% you're gonna see some serious sh**
I'll be blunt with you all and put it clearly: Byleth's reveal trailer was without question the worst reveal trailer I have ever seen for Smash. Spoils the character immediately, tone-deaf, drawn out, cringe-worthy dialogue and easily the worst splash screens I've ever seen (THE F******* "Joins the Battle" SPLASH SCREENS WERE BETTER). It's quite literally The Room of Smash trailers, being so bad it's kinda funny.

The moveset is just off for me, and is easily the worst of the 1st Fighter's Pass. It just feels like some frankenstein monster of all the Relic weapons and idk it just feels off. That said, it still is pretty fun and landing an Up-B combo is pretty satisfying. Still can't get over how the Final Smash is kinda just a PNG lol.


Garreg Mach Monastery is easily the worst of the stages of FP1 imo. It doesn't really feel special like the other ones and kinda just feels bland imo. It's 3 walkoffs with some destructable segments in two sections. Not really impressive compared to the rest of the pack.

The music is probably the only positive aspect of this pass, with 3H music consisting of some absolute bangers. That said, they're still on the bottom half of the list, and the lack of God Shattering Star is beyond baffling.

Overall Byleth is a character that had a horrid reveal, half-baked moveset, hollow stage and some good tunes. By and far the worst pick of the 1st pass.

:ultbyleth::ultbylethf:
Satisfaction Level: 30%

Overall Satisfaction Level: 73%


A definite solid lineup of fighters in the 1st pass, with Banjo and Terry being without question the standouts of this pass. Definitely happy with how this pass turned out.
 

Ridrool64

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
1,383
Location
New Jersey
Oh yeah I didn't do the whole pass.

Pass Satisfaction Rating: 80%. Overall I prefer Volume 2 but Volume 1 still slapped even if it wasn't all sunshine and roses. The picks were good, the diversity was good... I can't complain much but it's also not really something I'm gonna care about in the future.
 

Strider_Bond00J

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
2,863
Location
la-lio~n~
Switch FC
SW-2525-8699-9095
:ultjoker:: "Looking cool, Joker!"
This was pretty crazy. I did pick up the game on launch day, but also had a tennis lesson to attend later that day so I couldn't see Game Awards 2018 live at all. But after coming back and seeing messages that JOKER was coming to Smash Bros as the first fighter of DLC?!?
Insert Guzzlord screaming

HOLY CRAP. What a complete turnaround from what everyone was thinking the DLC would be. Everyone thought it'd just be filled with meaningless characters like a Goomba Tower or some other obscure 1st party character, but JOKER?! What a spectacle that was. Joker's reveal really redeemed the idea of the Fighters Pass, especially starting with a heavy-hitter from Persona 5. I honestly thought that if we were to get a Persona character it would have been Yu Narukami since he showed up in Persona Q on the 3DS and also had Persona 4 Arena backing him too. Joker was always that "Man, it would be amazing if he were in the game, but it's not going to happen" character for me. But the first character of the Fighter Pass being Joker instantly sold me.
100% satisfied with Joker. He's great in motion and summoning Arsène is a pretty cool gimmick he has with the Rebellion Gauge. Mementos as the stage is great too - I thought it'd just be a generic train station or railway but it's based off P5's stellar UI and art direction, and the special touches for P3 and P4 too. I still main him to this day, and he's probably my number 1 most played character for Smash Ultimate. His songlist is pretty great too, but my only gripes would be that maybe we could've gotten a few extra songs like Life Will Change, Heartful Cry, Best Friends (Persona 4 Arena).

:ulthero::ulthero3::ulthero4::ulthero2:: "The Heroes draw near!"
I've a soft spot for Dragon Quest (But no real respect for Koichi Sugiyama because of him being a controversial composer) since DQIX on the DS and always felt the series would be a nice addition to Smash Bros to contrast alongside Cloud and Final Fantasy. Since the rumours mainly focused on Erdrick and the Brave leak, I thought by himself, Erdrick wouldn't really be anything too special, but I'd be okay with him even if he's not my most wanted nor on my initial radar. Come E3 2019, I was taken by surprise. It's THE LUMINARY of Dragon Quest XI! That was a bit of a curveball but makes sense, but even more amazing was the fact that we got Solo and Eight THEN Erdrick as alternates. That was pretty hype.

The Heroes are always dumb fun if you ask me. Simple in terms of attacks like Link, but pretty powerful attacks and MP system. Command Selection's pretty interesting, but RNG can sometimes be a fickle thing. (Thwack is hilarious and under right circumstances Kamikazee can be great like Android 16's self-destruct. "I have no other options... GYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BOOOOOOOOOMMMM!!!) Yggdrasil's Altar is fine, but once again Sugiyama and his control meant that we're stuck with generic MIDIs. I have nothing nice to say for Sugiyama despite his passing, but it will hopefully mark a new era for Dragon Quest to have a new musical composer that won't be a complete monster.
Overall I'd say an 76% for Hero in general, with deductions being Sugiyama's influence.

:ultbanjokazooie:: Forgive me for bringing up the legendary meme vid of 2020.
BANJO AND KAZOOIEEEEEEE Insert flailing Kermit gif
For all the tension that was caused for fans when Hero was first shown off, the final reveal of E3 2019 being Banjo & Kazooie was amazing. They finally brought Banjo back to Nintendo after so many years and it's great to see him in action. Charming and goofy as always and quite authentic to the home games, he's close to what I hoped Banjo would be like in Smash Bros. Spiral Mountain as a stage is a nice choice and filled with nice little background cameos, but the gimmick of it being rotating from time to time, while interesting is pretty divisive and can be jarring. If there were a few things I'm not too happy with, I'd probably say it'd be a mix of simplicity and how he loses a major tool if he abuses the Goldwings too much, since you can ultimately only use the move 5 times before being completely useless afterwards. An option to recover them over time would be preferrable or as a reward for performing a KO, but that's something the balance team decides, not me. The lack of Gruntilda's Lair or the Final Battle themes are a bit weird to me, but the music Banjo-Kazooie came with are great throwbacks from memory lane.
Satisfaction rating overall I'd say is 92%

:ult_terry:: "Are you okay?" Punches you in the face "BUSTAH WOLF!!!"
Terry is one of those characters I didn't really have on my radar either until the leaks, but seeing him in action he's just so damn fun. You can really tell he's a love-letter from Sakurai to SNK and how much of a fan he is of SNK and what it's done for fighting games, even Smash itself. So Terry is an amazing legacy character and it really shows. His fighting style is faithful to the Fatal Fury games and he brings with him a huge amount of content and what I'd dare say is one of the best stages in Smash history, the King of Fighters Stadium. And 50 SONGS from across SNK's archives. Satisfaction: 100%. He's up there alongside Joker as one of my favourite DLC newcomers in general. I don't have much connection with the diamond in the rough that is Garou: Mark of the Wolves but an alternate costume based on it would've been nice.

:ultbyleth::ultbylethf::
Byleth... is in a very weird place for me. I loved Three Houses and it's easily one of my favourite games of 2019 (Come on Strider, you're right at the Golden Deer's final Boss doorstep, get back to playing it! ...Oh wait, assignment commitments) and Byleth was definitely one of the characters I wanted for Ultimate. But not as Fighter Pass 1's finale. With how successful the DLC was, to end the pass with Byleth... wasn't exactly the best card to play. I would've preferred Byleth coming as part of Fighter Pass 2 instead. Not exactly helping matters is the issue that Smashers have developed a hate-boner (probably one of the few times I use that phrase unironically) for anything remotely resembling a sword, which isn't exactly helped by Sothis' "Too many swordsmen?" joke. I do like how Byleth subverts the issue by bringing more weapons into the mix, Failnaught, Areadbhar and Aymr (though gauntlets would've been a nice touch to add a more brawler aspect to the mix), but sadly the damage is done. Though I definitely prefer Byleth over Corrin, that's for sure. If I were to choose only one of them to keep, it'd just be Byleth. Garreg Mach is a fitting stage, though a little undercooked. Also no Shambhala or God-Shattering Star? (AKA the best final boss theme) Byleth overall is about a 60% satisfaction. I like them and wanted them, but not as the final fighter for FP1, which has ultimately now tainted people on the very existence of Fire Emblem as if it even existing is the greatest evil inflicted on their lives. It was a very good thing we got the announcement of Fighter Pass 2, but from this point we started to see the ugly war of JRPG SwordBro vs Scrimbo McBlimbo.

Overall satisfaction of Fighter Pass 1? 80%
I overall liked this pass, with the only downsides being Byleth's very bungled inclusion and Sugiyama's MIDIs damaging the Dragon Quest rep. Joker was an amazing saving throw after the Piranha Plant reveal and really set up high expectations. Banjo-Kazooie helping bury the hatchet of a rivalry between Nintendo and Microsoft and Terry is just so goddamn fun to play and has the best stage ever if you ask me. (MAKE IT TOURNEY LEGAL COMPETITIVE COWARDS)

EDIT: Mind if I throw in a bonus? No need to count this, but just something I casually remembered.
NOW ENTERING [a] :nessecho:
Nothing was ever the goddamn same and it's amazing. SANS as a Mii Costume. Probably the most amazing Mii Costume, complete with the now iconic Megalovania. 100% satisfaction here.
 
Last edited:

DaUsername

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 6, 2013
Messages
670
Location
In that corner over there
NNID
DaUsername
Switch FC
SW-1418-0536-1998
:ultisabelle:: 25%
You know, it probably would have been better if she was an Echo Fighter, because what we ended up with is a character who plays like a bad version of Villager. I can't really hate her inclusion entirely because AC is actually a big franchise (especially now with ACNH becoming one of the best selling games of all time), but her moveset in Smash feels poorly thought out.)

:ultken:: 65%
He's definitely the best Echo Fighter (by the nature of being so different that it's hard to consider him an Echo). I just don't have that much fun playing as him, or any of the Fighting Game characters for that matter.

:ultincineroar:: 40%
I still think Decidueye would have been better, but he's okay I guess. He's kinda fun to play as, but I still think he was an unnecessary inclusion.

:ultpiranha:: 1%
"Hey, what if, instead of adding a character that people want, I add someone that absolutely nobody wants? And this time, instead of it being a unique character from an unrepped franchise, it's a generic Mario enemy? Wouldn't that be funny?"
It was not funny.
 

SKX31

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
3,373
Location
Sweden
Okay, so I'll re-enter this by reposting my character retrospectives in the DLC thread. They'll be in spoilers because they evolve into becoming really long:

:ultjoker: . You'll never see it coming. Sakurai's favored PS4 game.

ARSENE!

Ah yes, arguably the biggest "winner" of the DLC characters. Not only did Joker's and P5's popularity surge as a result of the inclusion, but Joker also had a surprising amount of staying power. The fact that well known players / streamers like MKLeo and Zackray picked the character up helped a lot, since it put the character in the spotlight even more and caused him to be associated with Ultimate much the same way as :foxmelee: is coupled to Melee's image. MKLeo needs no introduction, Zackray's one of the most-viewed Smashers on YouTube and Japan's most well known Smasher period. I'm mentioning those two in particular since their influence have probably reached the casual side of things.

The Specials stand out and give Joker something of a distance game. Gun doesn't hurt much but can discombobulate and harass - especially aerial opponents. Eiha's another really useful projectile, especially if it hits and annoys opponents with the DoT. Rebel's Guard is a unique counter that gives incentive towards picking right moments. Ditto with Tetrakarn / Makarakarn, even if those are some huge counters and extremely safe it requires Arsene. While Up B is more standard tether / winged recovery, it nevertheless has a couple applications akin to the Grappling Hook in 5R.

The character himself is intentionally built around the ebb and flow of P5's combat: starting the battle with nickle-and-diming the opposition, but with enough time and damage Arsene makes his appearance. Then **** gets real. As a general rule of thumb, if Joker gets to Arsene two times a stock or even more the match's generally going favorably for the Joker player since he's surviving a while.

To add: Joker's stand out moves include U-Air and F-Air as combo moves - especially if intentionally misplaced, then they can lead into kill confirms or even loops, N-Air, F-Tilt and D-Tilt as his main spacing moves, and B-Air / U-Smash as trademark KO moves - especially with Arsene.

Casually this character is not that easy to pick up compared to more straightforward ones IMHO. Sure, the Smashes and specials are relatively straightforward, but then a couple of aerials are difficult to properly land and the tilts don't offer that much in terms of raw damage. A lot of his power comes from combos and more complicated setups into Smashes, like drag down U-Air into F-Smash / D-Smash. Arsene does paper over the cracks and give some obviously strong attacks, but he's not going to be always around. (Really late edit: Misremembered things a bit, although both F-Air and U-Air can play a part in complicated kill confirms.)

His weaknesses prevent him from being outright overwhelming: Not only does he deal little damage without Arsene, but both his Up Bs are susceptible to being gimped / attacked at certain points. Arsene does come with some caveats - Eigaon is laggier than Eiha and his time out in the sun can be reduced a lot if Joker's taking a lot of damage during Arsene.

As for the first Challenger Pack (Stage, music):

Mementos is a fine stage - its effects can be a bit janky, but the walls and trains do add some spice and carnage to the stage. I just find one thing odd with it, and it's that the P3 / P4 victory themes are exclusive to those colors. Consistency I suppose? That said, I wouldn't mind if the themes were used more often.

The Spirits are good too - it's a good call to focus on the Phantom Thieves. The only missing ones are stuff like monsters and most bosses (excl. Igor) - but then again Sakurai might have been wary about including guys like Kamoshida in a family-friendly game, so it's understandable.

(Unusual character interactions sidenote: Sure, Joker can run circles around :ultincineroar:, but Incin doesn't give a **** about Rebel's Guard thanks to Alolan Whip, and Gun / Eiha can be counter-acted with Revenge. The cat's a surprisingly difficult opponent for Joker damnit I don't have a good Morgana joke.)

Satisfactiion: 75 %

Addendum: I'm personally happy he got in because he represents a game I liked when it came out and his gameplay flows very well - in particular I like the idea of how Arsene's supposed to flow. My gripes are small in the grand scheme of thing, but still worth noting: Tetrakarn / Makarakarn is really safe to just throw out even as it's an Arsene move, whenever Joker respawns Arsene meter will be refilled by 20 % regardless of where it was previously (it honestly should be completely reset) and his more complicated U-Air setup can be looped for a ton of damage which I'm not entirely a fan of. Still though, overall he's a great addition.

:ulthero: The first Smash character to be banned at a Nintendo event (really, even if briefly). The HOES MAD of FP1. The character that arguably best highlighted the issue of "niché" and "mainstream" - it's oftentimes region-dependent.

Trust the RNG.

Hero's another character that benefited a lot from getting into Smash - sure, DQ's mainstream in Japan, but not really elsewhere. That's not just relevant to the initial reactions (where many compared Erdrick to Goku) but also the lead up and the aftermath. Hero - or rather Erdrick - was not brought up much if at all in western forums until the brave leak occured. And the boost DQ got from the Smash appearance helped DQ XI S - XI stood at 4 million at the end of 2018 and 6 million by September 2020.

Still though, Hero's release was extremely mixed: more casual-leaning fans debated a lot over whether DQ "deserved" to get in, while competitive minded people were mired in the RNG controversy. Especially since competitively-minded forums had not agreed upon how much randomness was percieved to be acceptable - a controversy that was only fueled by twitter instant kill clips. This lead to Hero being banned in South Australia's scene (a ban which I don't think has been reversed unless I'm mistaken). The language barrier / lack of Command Selection icons issue didn't help, not to a community that frequently sees Japanese Smashers travel to American / European tournaments. The controversy did mostly die down once results started to roll in and Hero didn't take tournaments left and right. Outside of the now-banned Salem, Hero didn't have a flagbearer...

Until a Japanese Hero player - Akakikusu - showed up at Japanese tournaments, rose quickly up the ranks to become one of the most prominent players there and reinvigorated faith in the anime swordsman. While not dominant, Hero nevertheless has been cemented as an effective character in the right circumstances.

The moveset lends credence to this - while Hero's sword swings are slow they're meaty and refill his MP bar even if he hits shield. This is true for both his ground and aerial attacks, giving him a lot of options to play defensive and pressure. Three of his specials have three different forms - letting the Hero player choose between using a quicker version of the spell or sacrifice more MP to increase its strength. In particular, Zapple (Half-charged stage of Zap) has been noted to be an extremely effective way to space and keep opponents off the Hero. The Frizz family are standard but hardhitting fireballs. The Woosh family can be used to quickly escape pressure or even gimp in the right circumstances.

Command Selection is its own beast, with the RNG being semi-compensated by the fact that most CS spells can be grouped into specific categories. The buffs are considered priority amongst Serious Business Heroes - although that doesn't stop the players from using other spells. The only ones routinely avoided are Kaclang / Metal Slash, Kamikaze and Hocus Pocus most of the time (AFAIK). I say most times - people have selected Hocus Pocus hoping for the Giant Mushroom effect. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Hero's weaknesses are worth noting: He doesn't have many reliable anti-air attacks outside of Up Tilt, he's kinda susceptible vs. aggressive rushdown due to his reliance on the magic and slow attacks, and while his individual swings are strong he can't combo endlessly: meaning a Hero player oftentimes has to be careful to avoid those scenarios and instead focus on tacking on damage bit by bit (unless he gets Acceleratle).

Casually this guy can run hot and cold: the sword swings are easy to use, but the magic spells drain a lot of MP quickly if tossed carelessly. Since Hero wants some MP remaining for recovery, poor planning or Magic Bursts that miss can come to haunt the Hero player rather quickly. His susceptibility to rushdown also applies should a Hero focus on the Menu only to get attacked suddenly whether by an opponent, an AT or an item. Still, Hero's array of spells make him the most entertaining character in the right situations. Kamikaze, Hocus Pocus and Magic Burst are the highlights since they're hardcommital yet devastating. The crits add to this, since they come without any warning whatsoever.

FFAs are thus extremely wild if a Hero player's involved, and they only get exponentially wilder if more players choose Hero. 10 / 10 would recommend this every time myself.

(Weird character interaction time: Since Oomph not only buffs Hero's damage output but also makes him take 1.2X more damage himself, characters with high raw damage output or whom outranges Hero can take advantage of that. :ultsimon: is a good example since that helps make any battle between the two even more volatile than it already is.)

Satisfaction: 90 %

Addendum: Grew on Hero quickly, and grew to really like how chaotic he can turn out to be. The Language Barrier remains not fixed when it honestly should've been. Other than that though, I'm pretty happy with how he turned out - the risk / reward with MP usage is pretty well made.

All right. :ultbanjokazooie: . The sole speculation favorites to actually make it through by FP1. Rareware's most famous original characters.

Homecoming.

Their inclusion may not have anything to do really with recent games - unlike fellow E3 2019 reveal Hero - but hey, they were arguably one of the biggest beneficiaries of the relationship-building Nintendo and Microsoft have done. It helps that they're Rareware's most well known original characters and tightly connected to the N64 days, meaning that there's a lot of nostalgia associated with the duo. And hey, they have an unique position: Sakurai's recommendations during their presentation helped to get the Xbox trending in Japan briefly.

Their competitive results have not been amazing though. Initially the reception was mildly positive: Tweek picked them for a major tournament as a test run and performed admirably, securing 5th in a stacked bracket. Despite him dropping the duo opinions about B-K remained mildly positive helped by a decently significant playerbase. However, 2020 saw a decline in their competitive fortunes - the vurnerabilities they have plus a lot of their prominent playerbase dropping them did them no favors, nor did a perception about their playstyle. That said, they did gain their current flagbearer - Brood, a wily Brawl veteran whose known for consistency and occassional deep runs - during this time as well, and their playerbase remains dedicated.

Sure, their results have not been as great as some B-K fans might have hoped. But considering that Brood did manage to take 2nd at a national Japanese tournament - Umebura SP 4 - using :ultpiranha: and has achieved consistent results with B-K it's far from over for them.

Their moveset does hew very close to the expansive moveset in the N64 duology, and it shows primarily in their Specials. Both Egg Lay / Breegull Blaster are good at discombobulating approaches and in the latter case can set up for more technical combos / chases. Rear Egg is arguably similar in some regards, although they're also useful as a mindgame / recovery aid. Wonderwing might be seen as the duo's "gimmick move" partly because of its resource management aspect - but it's also a helpful recovery move, meaning that it's good to prioritize using them for recovery in many situations (the only exception here might be command grabs like :ultwario: ). Their Up B helps mend the duo's lack of double jump height nicely.

The normals complement this to a large degree, although they also give B-K much needed CQC options. In fact, while a lot of focus has been on the eggs themselves the CQC options have quite a bit of utility. Yes, they're not great at comboing / KOing on stage, but the steady damage afforded by the normals are still worth noting. Moves like F-Tilt and D-Tilt are good if the B-K player needs to space. B-Air and N-Air are good multi-purpose moves that work as both combo tools, for harassing and edgeguarding. F-Smash and U-Smash are highly commital but potent if they hit, thus they are the primary ways to secure stocks on stage. They're very versatile and adaptable in this regard.

(In fact, a pet peeve I have is that there's IMHO been too much focus around the eggs in Serious Business play. See this post by@ DougEfresh, which I highly recommend.)

While they're standard in many ways, their stats are surprisingly all over the place. Banjo's initial dash is one of the slowest but Kazooie's run ranks up there as the 11th fastest - making the duo the only character who start out slow but take off. They might not have amazing aerial drift, but have good ability to maneuver around the air thanks to multiple jumps and mixups.

Their weaknesses are worth noting: Their damage output and KO potential is not amazing, and they themselves are heavy with a wide hurtbox - meaning that they're susceptible to combos. As such they'll have to ensure they don't get out-damage'd, especially vs. characters / people who can lay on a lot in one go. Their grab game is barely adequate, with down throw being the only viable option (and even then it's not as consistent as K Rool's) They don't have a solid OoS game either, meaning that a B-K player has to be careful not to get trapped in shield.

Casually they're a stable character - while people may be tempted to spam Wonderwings to their hearts content the duo's versatility allows a casual B-K player to work around a lot of different situations that may present themselves. They're not going to get flashy kills most of the time, but they're also very good at staying in the FFA fray for quite a while. Their recovery helps here, especially since people are less likely to aggressively contest recoveries in FFAs.

As for the Challenger Pack itself: Spiral Mountain's an okay stage - although the fact that it's rotating can be a bit disorientating at times. The cameos are nice though, especially Grunty and Tooty running around. In fact..:


You could say that Tooty's Missingnomore. :roll:

Grant Kirkhope did really well with the remixes he got to do, with the only question mark being no Grunty track. The Spirits themselves are also a nice package, nothing to complain about there. The Jiggy spirit did take some time actually beating though.

Weird character interaction sidenote: You ever wanted to play the Mr. Patch boss fight as Mr. Patch? No? Well, too bad, because anytime a :ultbanjokazooie: plays vs. a :ultjigglypuff: it risks turning into this boss fight in practice. The B-K player will want to avoid Rest confirms and aerial shenaningas at all costs, while Jigglypuff cares about diagonals so much that a Puff player will want to avoid getting hit by what B-K brings. This matchup might be kinda even if slightly B-K favored, but it risks devolving into... not a fun time for either.

(**** I forgot Hero's stage and music - stage is perfectly fine and an interesting take on "FD" esque stages, while I'm gonna blame the relative lack of music and the fact they're MIDIs on Sugiyama it's not bad - but still mediocre, which is a major shame. The Spirits are fine choices too, my only complaint is that Luminary's party members should've been individual Spirits instead of awkwardly grouped together.)

Satisfaction: 75 %

Addendum: I'm still very happy they got in, my only issue is that they're a bit undertuned. They're kinda in a similar scenario as the :ultpit: s where their moveset is versatile, but have still some inconsistencies holding them back (I'm still a bit miffed that U-Tilt lacks a scoop hitbox, for instance). Still though, they're mostly fine characters and well implemented.

:ult_terry: . The SNK leak. Sakurai's inspiration. "Hat Ken."

GO.

Terry's inclusion made him one of the biggest "winners" of FP1, arguably even more so than Joker. While Terry and FF / KoF are very much well known in some regions (Japan, LatAm, China) he's mainly within those regions' respective FGCs. In other regions he's much more niché or even obscure - to the point where on these very forums Sari Sari was one of the very few people to have Terry or SNK in general even on the radar, and did entire writeups on him and the other SNK characters.

Afterwards, well, he became surprisingly popular to play as. Several factors contribute to this:

Terry's competitive fortunes have been strong right out of the gate, although the playerbase is not huge nor is he considered super-overwhelming. Riddles - already a solid Ken / Ryu player when Terry was unveiled - took a strong interest in Mr. Bogard and instantly switched to him. After the switch he showed off how Terry's surprisingly mobile and that he's capable of some silly kills, and that combined with prominent results helped to solidify him as Terry's most well known player. Other players include Tsu, who uses him alongside :ultlucario: and have upset several prominent players.

Terry's moveset is heavily leaned towards the punish game - arguably even more so than Ryu / Ken. Like the Shotos though, all but Power Wave can be inputed using specific commands - which is difficult to do but its reward is generally increased damage, knockback and intangibility.

Power Wave is his sole projectile, a low-profiling poke that can stifle reckless approaches. Burning Knuckle is a commital but dangerous punch with strong knockback, allowing it to kill surprisingly early. Rising Tackle is a short but highly damaging Up B with a likewise dangerous ability to trap people. Terry's the first character to have a back special - Crack Shoot a high profiling spinning heel kick that works both as a damage racker, crossing up shields and a recovery mixup. Power Dunk is famously the go-to move for damage racking, and can also work as another mixup.

All right, it's time to talk about this:




The Special Cancels. While a trademark for Ryu and Ken, Terry's inclusion highlighted this even more since multiple normals (Jab, all of his tilts, N-Air) can cancel into Special Moves. The most common use is... well, yeah, although there's a surprising number of different special confirms. The punish game Terry possesses is further augmented by him having a strong normal combo game. U-Tilt, N-Air and U-Air are especially good for combos / juggles. Terry is also the first character to incorporate a dodge attack - a modified U-Tilt that comes out slightly faster, has higher knockback and launches upward with the primary trade off being less shieldstun. Dodge Attack -> U-Air -> Rising Tackle is a real chain at certain %s.

And this is an intentional segue right into the GO meter. Yup those two. Power Geyser and Buster Wolf are super-commital, but Power Geyser covers entire ****ing platforms and can kill as early as 50 % with low blast ceilings, while Buster Wolf's status as a hitgrab means it can completely counter stuff like :ultbanjokazooie: 's Wonderwing, :ultincineroar: 's Revenge and :ultjoker: 's Rebel's Guard (but not Tetrakarn). The Supers can also be confirmed into: Up Tilt -> Power Geyser and F-Tilt -> Buster Wolf, making it extra imperative for the opponents to KO Terry before Terry can get the damage gravy train rolling. He's surprisingly heavy too - that combined with the recovery mixups makes it possible for him to tank a ton of damage in some situations.

The catch is that the Supers can be difficult for newcomers to execute properly and that they're liable to being misinputed / thrown in the wrong direction. This also goes for the input versions of Specials, meaning that Terry has a decently steep skill curve for players interested in trying him out. The difficulty of execution is arguably not as bad as Ryu / Ken, but can still cause tech flubs and various unintentional hiccups. The autoturnaround makes his B-Air in particular difficult to pull off in 1v1s.

Other weaknesses he has are also worth noting: His movement stats are slow whether on the ground or the air, which combined with just one projectile makes approaches kinda difficult. He's also very vurnerable in disadvantage - he's especially prone to being juggled, even as he has several moves with intangibility on them. While he has his recovery mixups they're also very exploitable and susceptible to off stage edgeguards / two frames. His ground game is amazing, although heavily centered on baiting and then punishing opponents: he doesn't have many good CQC pokes outside of D-Tilt.

Casually Terry's heavily situation-dependent. His lacking speed either on the ground or air doesn't allow him to play the item game vs. faster characters, but his attacks - especially his specials - have a lot of "splash" damage. This allows a Terry player to plow through multiple opponents at the same time, and can create situations where everyone else is yeeted away by a Burning Knuckle or Power Dunk. If he doesn't get killed early by an item, AT or whatever he can survive for a lot longer and unleash a bunch of Supers.

While I don't talk about the Final Smash often (every DLC FS is a cutscene) Terry's Special Cancels allows him to cancel almost every single move of his into his Final Smash, allowing him to cause even more casual AoE carnage assuming FS is turned on. Sure the FS cutscene only affects one, but everyone else caught in the "Overheat!" explosions will be launched away.

His Challenger Pack is honestly a near-10/10. The stage is amazing for casual fun, with the walls preventing the normal walk-off shenaningas and also encouraging people to just go ham. The music tracks are likewise amazing - the fact that SNK approved the entire list caught Sakurai off guard. The Spirits are pulled from all over SNK's properties, with the only notable missing characters being Mai and the Metal Slug cast.

All in all, those all factor into Terry being an enjoyable but not overbearing character whose playerbase have notably pushed him.

Edit: (Weird character interaction sidenote: I'd say that Terry's weirdest matchup are vs. other combo-centric characters like :ultsheik: and :ultmetaknight: . Not just since one touch often = tons of damage or trades all over the place, but also since both Terry and Sheik / Meta Knight can shut down each others' recoveries. It often results in some weird shenaningas whether on or off stage.)

Satisfaction: 95 %

Addendum: Probably my favorite of FP1 and that's mainly because the Challenger Pack is huge and that Terry is relatively simple but fun. My only issue is that he can confirm into Power Geyser / Buster Wolf a bit easily, but that's far from a dealbreaker. Introduced me to SNK's work, and I'm happy that happened.

:ultbyleth: . Not-Dante. Distance Demon. The teacher who's sadly fated to indirectly cause fights whether in-universe or out of their universe.

Reach for my hand.

Byleth's initial reaction is positively infamous. Due to a myriad of reasons that have been gone over loads of times both here and in other places. Not only were the Western fanbase in particular deeply divided over the number of FE characters that got in during Smash 4's lifetime or how they overall took from much of the same design space. Sakurai's evident desire to have the FE characters fight tactically / strategically has had its ups and downs, and Byleth continues that roller coaster. The reveal trailer had its own share of jank, which didn't help.

Another aspect that remains contentious is the moveset, with several members here having proposed the Divine Pulse and related attacks as well as attacks that hew closer to what Byleth actually does. The reason why they went the weaponmaster route might never be explained in full, but potential explanations is giving Byleth's most prominent students - Dmitri, Claude and Edelgard - some prominence alongside Byleth, to save precious development time, and / or whatever else really. I think we'll simply have to see if Byleth returns with the next installments.

Their competitive status is in a weird place, and has been ever since they were released. They're very infrequent in competitive spaces - the "Most historically significant players" only list two players. And their only really well-known player is, yes, MKLeo. Who picked them up instantly after they released and proceeded to gel really nicely with how they play. There have been some hiccups for him along the way - most notably during The Bad Year when people were stuck playing online, and Byleth's reputation was at its nadir. Still though, MKLeo entered 2021 and returning offline events with a goal, and boy howdy did he continue to wreck face. His recent tournament wins have caused quite a lot of re-evaluation of the character as of late - even as other players are slowly getting used to his Byleth and opinions seem rather mixed even if much more positive than the nadir.

Byleth's moveset lean heavily towards strategic use, and nowhere is this more evident than their Specials. Failnaught takes a while to charge, but shoots a fast arrow at half charge or a beam of light at full charge. It can be charge-cancelled too (although not when commiting to full charge), making it a good way to bait approaches. Areadbhar covers a lot of space and can kill rather early if one hits with the blade - but lags quite a bit and anyone else can punish it if shielded, encouraging careful use. It's also good at covering the ledge, whether Byleth's about to recover or edgeguarding. The Sword of the Creator is an atypical tether grab, not least since if it hits the opponent is launched horizontally pre-50 % and in an untechable spike post-50% - leading to followups like Up-B -> Side-B, It's also a great Out of Shield option and cancels all knockback if used in the air, lending a lot of defensive utility. Aymr is a really heavy axe swing, taking seemingly forever to charge but has super armor on the ground and hits like a truck. Since it's really risky but rewarding it's mostly used for hard reads.

The normals also follow this philosophy, with some stand out moves to help Byleth keep control and play the strategic game. F-Tilt and U-Tilt cover a lot of space and can knock people back quite far. D-Tilt and N-Air are good combo starter that can lead into a variety of attacks. F-Air and B-Air deal a lot of damage when tippered and send people likewise far away. U-Air is one of the best juggling moves in the game period, excellent at keeping people up there. The Smash attacks are heavily commital but if they hit properly they can KO surprisingly early - D-Smash is of particular note since it deals a ton of shield damage, as does the other axe move D-Air.

The weaponmaster is not without weaknesses though. Their movement stats are some of the slowest in the game, making any approach commital and making most combos pretty damn precise. Since their moveset is so focused around powerful attacks used strategically, counters and reflectors are extremely dangeous to Byleth. In addition, most of their attacks come with a caveat attached, whether endlag, start-up or narrow hitbox: which combine to leave Byleth very vurnerable in case those attacks miss or in some cases shielded. In short, Byleth's a very momentum-based character with little in-between, sometimes they can come to pressure and blow up people to kingdom come, other times they can feel like they're being overrun.

Casually Byleth is going to come down to a number of different factors. Not just whether the Byleth player has the momentum, but also whether or not they can establish enough stage control to profit off it. Their AoE is very impressive to help just clear away groups of opponents, and their abundance of defensive options do help them stay in the fray. Their weight is not the greatest though (tied with :ultluigi: and :ultshulk: ) - which might be more of an issue casually not only since counters and reflectors are more commonly used but also since casual FFAs often have really powerful items.

When it comes to Byleth's Challenger Pack, not 100 % a fan. The stage is a good idea, Garreg Mach is central to 3H and including a bunch of neat cameos is a good idea in principle. I'm not as convinced that the execution's all there though - compared to other stages with background cameos not many of the 3H cameos are doing interesting stuff. The only exception I can think of is the Pegasus Knight. Sure, you can't expect all cameos to do interesting stuff, but the Phantom Thieves, Aegis' companions and Heihachi react to what's going on. Also, walk-off at certain points of the stage. I have a personal distate for 'em (except KOF Stadium, which took pains to solve the primary issue I have).

The music is actually really good if you ask me - I've come to appriciate the main theme in particular. The key omission now that I've listened to it is God-Shattering Star though. The Spirits are also well-represented from 3H, although I think they could've added some additional cameos.

All in all, Byleth's legacy in Smash will remain contentious - but make no mistake. Those who underestimate Byleth on the battlefield might get a rude awakening, because (s)he brought all the weapons to bear. And I can respect that decision to come to Smash prepared.

(Weird character interaction sidenote: Byleth has very votalite matchups vs. characters with strong grab games. :ultdk: stands out in particular: not least since Byleth has a character-specific OHKO combo on DK but also since if DK gets the upper hand he can lay on the damage on them - and KO early - in turn. But also :ultmewtwo:, :ultluigi: and :ultsnake: are notable examples. In those cases Byleth really wants to avoid getting grabbed at all costs.)

Satisfaction: 55 %

Addendum: I've warmed up to the character a bit in the 18 months since release... but I'm still not really in favor of Byleth here. Part of the issue is that Byleth doesn't lean far from the "Standard FE moveset" even if Sakurai and co. took steps to deviate some from that formula some. Another reason is that they can run hot-and-cold due to that strategic focus. Still though, I don't hate the idea entirely either - but I really feel like Sakurai and co. don't need to add more FE characters for at least a while.
 
Last edited:

WeirdChillFever

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
6,089
Location
Somewhere Out There
Society™:
Honestly, I don‘t have a lot so say about the guy. He’s kinda there. Had a nice reveal, probably had a nice game and has a nice playstyle. Meters aren’t all that though, and his personality is to be an absolute Mad Lad, Aww Snap He Actually Did It, Can’t Believe The Craziness Of This Man and I’m just not a fan of him overall. The fact he doesn’t really represent Megami Tensei to the point people were already clamoring for Nahobino also makes his inclusion a lot more vacuuous than could be. He’s Guy From Persona 5 from the hit series Persona 5 which is shallow waters.

50%

Holding Out:
Look, forget everything you know about balance, about what makes a good moveset work and game design. Hero doesn’t work, has a Tide Pod set stitched together with randomness, sword strikes and the horse paste boomers are eating. But it works for casual play. Thwack is fun and fun is something I didn’t consider when speculating, but this does put a smile on my face and for that Hero is worth it, even if I do not give a rat’s roasted nuts about Dragon Quest and wowie it’s so important and all that bull. Hero is just the kind of plain chaotic fun that few on the roster possess. I do think there’s a difference between thinking something is fun to have and to be satisfied with it.

70%

The Scrimblo AND the Bimblo:
First off, some assertions about my feelings towards Banjo and Kazooie that seem to run counter to most people’s reactions:
I like his playstyle and I have not played the games. To me they are far from necessary for the roster and they aren’t ”pass-savers” to me.
There will never be a moment in Smash speculation that every popular frontrunner is in, as we‘ve witnessed the rise of Dante, Crash, Master Chief right after the old revisionism guard had gotten their phantomic triforce three. Banjo completed squat. He was nice by himself, add a fan favorite that’s always nice, but he just felt like one of many, one link in an ever-chugging train and thus Banjo didn’t give me that kind of satisfaction.

Aside from that, they do have this sort of universal appeal with their cartooniness and I appreciate that and I like how they play, not just on that Hero-ish theory level but in practice as well. Bonus!

70%

Drunk Estate Agent:
Terry’s there to be the third weirdly controlling fighting character and he’s Very American Cool doing it. Gee whilliker.

20%

Pants-****tering Star:
I‘m spiteful enough to think a bazillionth Fire Emblem character is funny, so that’s a bonus. I also absolutely do not mind a more low-key playstyle without meters, blocks or weapon switches and I absolutely adore Three Houses. The comments you might see about Persona 5 being such a GOTY forever life-changing amaze-balls? Applies to Three Houses to me. I’ve played it eleven times, written multiple fan fictions about it and it’s very comforting to me.

I’m glad Three Houses is in Smash. I’m not too excited about Byleth being the vessel (heeho) for that though. Three Houses is not about Byleth to me. Byleth is also kind of weird as a silent protagonist and home to some of the dumber parts of the characterization of characters.
Still, his presence is familiar to me so he’s not all bad.

60%

Overall Pass Rating: 70%
I’m not a person that judges a pass compared to what could’ve been or it’s worst elements. I only really like playing as one of them and I don’t even care for that character personally and I only played the game of one of the characters, but honestly my expectation wasn‘t much different. We’re a lot of characters in and I‘ve played the series before, I didn’t judge the chance of my perfect character or new main appearing in a five-pack pass to be very high. I still got a few cool characters out of it so I‘m pleasantly surprised, but far from blown out of the water with pass 1.
 

Sari

Smash Master
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
4,347
Location
New Jersey
NNID
Villager49
Switch FC
SW-2215-0173-2152
Calcs

:ultisabelle: Isabelle
Satisfaction: 61.26%

Isabelle's original satisfaction score was 72.15% back in September 2018. She's seen a stark decline since then, as people thought that she should've either been more unique or more similar to Villager and called an echo.

:ultken: Ken
Satisfaction: 67.50%

Ken's original satisfaction score was 72.48% back in November 2018. His score saw a slight decrease which, although not too significant enough, is enough to drop him below Richter's recent score and make leave Ken in 2nd place in regards to the most liked echoes. It's worth noting that despite all of his echo differences, Ken still lost to Richter back in 2018 as Richter's original satisfaction score was 74.61%.

In general we haven't had any echo rank higher than 75% throughout all of Ultimate. So while echoes are welcomed additions, they aren't exactly crowd pleasers either.

:ultincineroar: Incineroar
Satisfaction: 59.11%

Incineroar's first satisfaction score was 51.12% back in November 2018. It seems time has benefitted Incineroar a bit as he was very split in 2018 due to being the final base game character. Despite the increase however, his score still isn't the best as it seems like Pokemon fatigue is indeed a thing.

:ultpiranha: Piranha Plant
Satisfaction: 45.32%

To my surprise, Plant actually went down since their first satisfaction score in November 2018 which was 56.60%. Keep in mind that we first rated Plant right after their reveal, so it's easy to assume that some people were not happy about Plant getting in over recently killed characters like Isaac, Shadow, and Rex. I thought that time would do Plant some wonders but it seems people are still not happy about their inclusion, as Plant saw three 0's while the other characters here only got one 0 each.

Also I'm super happy deeply saddened to report that with a satisfaction score of 45.32%, Piranha Plant is now the lowest rated character/concept throughout all of Ultimate (beating Daisy's recent 46.56%). Aside from potentially Byleth, I don't think any character going forward is going to rank lower than this so we may just have our worst newcomer of Ultimate right here.

Everyone Is here: 90.28%
Inkling: 79.71%
Daisy: 46.56%
Ridley: 87.78%
Simon: 81.05%
Richter 73.16%
Chrom: 64.25%
Dark Samus: 58.37%
K. Rool: 91.58%
 
Last edited:

Golden Icarus

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
1,066
Location
USA
I'm gonna move backwards for the sake of getting my anger out of the way.

Byleth:ultbyleth:: 2%

I understand that this is the least original opinion ever, but that’s kinda my point. If a vast number of people not only dislike a character, but actively hate them, then there’s clearly something wrong. Not just with the haters, but with the character as well.

And there are a lot of issues with Byleth that are pretty easy to identify. Three Houses was out for less than a year before their announcement, Fire Emblem had been considered an overrepped series three characters ago, and the Fighters Pass characters preceding Byleth were all third parties representing their own series. Also doesn't help that this was the third JRPG protag in a Fighters Pass with only five characters. This was an extremely tone deaf character to end FP1 with. There's a reason that this single character was able to bring so much toxicity to the Smash fanbase.

I also find it frustrating when people equate Byleth hate to Fire Emblem hate, or sword fighter hate. I love Fire Emblem. Awakening is among my top 20 games of all time and Marth and Roy were two of my favorite characters in Melee. I’m glad we have FE in Smash, but too much of anything can be annoying, especially when said thing is a relatively niche series with fairly repetitive characters. Like, Mario and Pokemon are two of the biggest media franchises in the world, so that's one thing. But FE sits below Zelda, Metroid, Animal Crossing, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Splatoon, and so many others. Yeah sales aren't everything, but come on. "But every FE game has a new cast! Without Byleth, we wouldn't have a Three Houses rep!" Okay and? Golden Sun has 3 games and 0 reps. Custom Robo has 5 games and 0 reps. God forbid one Fire Emblem game gets passed up.

And even after finally finishing Three Houses, I'm not any less annoyed by Byleth's inclusion. I don't like that we only ever get the main protagonists. Once they added Marth, I wish the Smash team was way more creative with their choices. I would've greatly preferred Azura over Corrin, or Edelgard over Byleth. That way we could've at least had some personality with the FE cast. But no, we just had to add the blue haired, sword-wielding, silent protagonist, instead of the far more dynamic character who could have offered a more original and less try hard moveset.

So moveset-wise, Byleth is fine. Definitely not fun enough or original enough to counteract all the negativity, but passable. The stage is one of the least inspired locations in Smash and the music is...good, but doesn't compare to the completely original stuff we got through Terry, Joker, etc.

So yeah, this is the only DLC character that I actively dislike. In fact, I love every other character addition so much, that they only helped highlight my disdain for Byleth.
Terry:ult_terry:: 100%

Love this guy. Like so many others, I only ever had a passing interest in KoF before Terry's addition, only for his inclusion to be one of the coolest history lessons ever. These are the kinds of character I will always appreciate Smash for - the ones I barely knew existed, but end up introducing me to something great. Seeing Sakurai go all out for a series I barely knew anything about was so fun. It made me want to bust out a bunch of my older brother's SNK games to see what I've been missing out on. And now, KoF '98 comes out regularly when I'm hanging out with friends. These games are so fun and flashy and I never would have bothered playing them if it weren't for Sakurai.

And Terry is such a fun character in Smash. I like Ryu and Ken in concept, but their playstyle never quite worked for me. Terry has many of the same quirks as the shotos, but offers a playstyle that is much more to my liking. The GO! mechanic might be overpowered and ridiculous, but I don't care, as landing BuSTaH WOLF!! is insanely satisfying every time. I am so grateful for Terrence Bogard.
Banjo-Kazooie:ultbanjokazooie:: 90%

I find this one hard to complain about. As much as I love platformers, I never liked the Banjo games. The music annoys me, the controls feel kinda awkward and I don't find the games all that funny. However, this was a fantastic choice for Smash. Anytime a huge fan request is added, I'm happy. That's just a general rule for me. If Sakurai decides to go out of his way to add something that fans have been clamoring for, then you bet your ass I'm gonna applaud that decision. This was such an important inclusion for so many Smash fans and I could not be happier for them.

On top of just being popular, there's just a magic to Banjo finally being in Smash. Banjo and Kazooie are Nintendo all-stars. Whether or not they are owned by Nintendo, they were defining characters on the N64. Since being purchased by Microsoft, it seemed impossible for them to ever reunite with their fellow Nintendo icons. So finally getting them in Smash, solidifying a relationship between two rival companies and reuniting BK with their Rare brethren...it's beautiful.

They don't do much for me gameplay-wise, and like I said, I'm not a huge fan of the Banjo games in general. But they still get a very high score from me for how special their inclusion is.
Hero:ulthero3::ulthero4::ulthero2::ulthero:: 95%

One of the biggest franchises in all of Japan, and undoubtedly the next most important Square Enix series after FF. This was a no-brainer for Smash.

Of course, the only very questionable thing about their inclusion is the spell menu. I still don't know exactly how I feel about it. On one hand, I was really excited to just play as a DQ hero and was hoping that their playstyle would be in line with Link, or Cloud. No gimmicks, just a straight forward playstyle with a few unique spells and weapons to set them apart. So the spell menu is very much the opposite of what I was hoping for.

...However, I kinda like it. Silly random fun is a big part of Smash and having a character who really embraces that is kinda cool. Hero is one of my most played characters because he offers an experience that you can't get with any other character. I don't mind over-the-top gimmicks in Smash, and while Hero might cross the line for some people, I personally enjoy what they have to offer.

Oh yeah, Hero's alts are also fantastic. The DQ11 hero has easily my least favorite design, which is a bit of a bummer as he's the face that shows up on the select screen, but that's a pretty silly nitpick.

Joker:ultjoker:: 100%


Such a cool way to start off the Fighters Pass. Honestly, it was pretty ballsy to announce Joker at the Game Awards, as it's a Western event and Persona is such a niche series, but the reveal was so perfectly done. I knew so many people who had never played Persona, but were hyped for Joker because of how cool the reveal made him look. It also helps that he was the very first DLC character, which made it hard to be salty as the game had just released and there were still at least four more characters to come. You might as well get hype!

And get hype I did. Never played Persona before Joker's announcement, but like I so often do, I decided to try out Persona 5 after Joker's reveal. Would you look at that now I've played every mainline Persona game, as well as PQ, PQ2, P4A, and Strikers. Persona is now by far my favorite JRPG franchise and Persona 3, 4, 5 are all among my favorite games of all time. And of course, this never would have happened if it weren't for Sakurai adding this relatively obscure series to Smash.

I'm glad that there was a good four month gap between Joker's announcement and release date, as it gave me the chance to play through all of Persona 5 within that time frame. It made me really appreciate all of the love Sakurai put into this character. I know that some people take issue with Joker's gameplay not really reflecting Persona 5, but I don't really agree. Joker's fast-paced, upbeat, stylish gameplay is exactly what I associate with P5. The rebel's gauge is a bit of a strange implementation of Arsene, but it works.

Overall FP1 Satisfaction: 80%

Slam dunk after slam dunk, with only one very questionable character addition. The pass had a lot of fairly predictable additions, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it did lack some of the 'oomph' that was present in FP2. Overall, it was a great start to Ultimate's DLC, and acted as a great appetizer for things to come...
 

YoshiandToad

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
6,507
Location
Still up Peach's dress.
Oops, I missed the last gang due to being away for the weekend...I'll just throw my quick thoughts on them here for the sake of my own sense of completion:

:ultisabelle:: 80%
Deserved is a subjective term for sure(we all have opinions on what that means to us), but I feel Isabelle blew up in a big way since her appearance in New Leaf and thus is warranted. 20% gets knocked off because her reveal was easily the least interesting, she's not as iinteresting as she could have been and honestly I find Villager the better AC character to play in Smash.

:ultken:: 70%
Very good final Echo pick, makes an insane amount of sense as he pretty much solidifed the whole fighting game clone thing in the first place, he's unique enough that he and Ryu feel vastly different making him and Chrom easily the best echos of the lot. I can't play him worth a damn, but Ken is a good choice.

:ultincineroar:: 50%
I had no real horse in the Pokemon race this time round. I stopped at X + Y although I remember saying I'd pick up Litten if I ever did get around to getting Sun and Moon...I just never did. He's alright. A grappler which is neat. Wish he had a few more fire moves mixed in with his wrestling set. Enjoy his personality more than the moveset tbh. Not bad, but rather indifferent.

:ultpiranha:: 0%
Ah sod it. Look, I was very amused by Plant at the time and he is to this day the only DLC that elicited a straight up laugh from me. It's moveset feels unfinished and clunky however and the joke wore off before Joker even arrived. I still play him occasionally, but I wish we'd gotten a Mario character people wanted like Captain Toad, Toad, Waluigi, Toad, Paper Mario, Paper Toad, a unique Daisy, Toad, Toadette or Doctor Baby Metal Toad stack instead of Plant and an uninspired echo version of Daisy. Hell, I'd have taken Toad.

Disclaimer; I have not bought a single one of these guys so my experience with them is largely from playing around a friends house who did buy the extra fighters.

:ultjoker:: 0%
I don't like Joker. I'm not sure when it started but I have never enjoyed the character of Joker.
Whether it's due to being swarmed constantly by Persona cosplayers at comic-cons for a few years there, because he gets shoehorned into everything (seriously, his crossovers are numerous) or because I just don't gel with Persona as a whole, Joker appearing after Plant as another 'BET YA DIDN'T SEE THIS COMING' newcomer made me second guess buying the Fighters Pass. I've played as him on my friends console and whilst I do actually quite like Mementos as a stage, Joker's inclusion does nothing for me. It didn't even do anything for my Persona loving friend...who honestly may also be part to blame for my general dislike of Joker.

:ulthero:: 55%
I understand why Dragon Quest is important, I understand it changed the JRPG landscape and I understand it's a cultural juggernaut in Japan. I however am not a fan of traditional JRPGs, and thus have little experience or interest with the series as a result. Still, I do like that Sakurai included multiple heroes including the more popular in the West :ulthero2:, which is enough to bolster it an additional 5% from a total indifference. One of the least interesting stages though.

:ultbanjokazooie:: 82%
The lone platformer character amongst a sea of JRPG protagonists, fighters and...I guess Steve. I was around the right age to be hugely into Banjo-Kazooie, but strangely the games never quite hooked me as much as other platformers. Banjo is the one DLC fighter I've played the most however, and amongst the ocean of gimmicks he feels like a more back to basics character...even though he does have a gimmick in Wonderwing. What can I say? I like the Scrimblo.

:ult_terry:: 60%
I'm pleased to say I was one of the people who knew who Terry was long before SNK speculation even began. I kind of like Terry, but he didn't illicit the same excitement for me that Ryu or even Ken did when they were revealed, as KoF isn't a game I'm massively in to. Not bad though.

:ultbyleth:: 80%
You know what though? I like strategy RPGs.
Three Houses was my personal game of the year and I just finished it a week before Byleth's reveal. Has an interesting kit and is my second favourite FE character to play as after Chrom...but...they are still more Fire Emblem, and I remember feeling mixed on their reveal. I hated the idea of a third party only DLC run, but for the character to break it to be the latest poster boy(or girl) for Fire Emblem still made me groan at their reveal...and I was a fan of Three Houses!

First Fighters Pass overall: 55% satisfaction
I'm glad I didn't buy it honestly. Whilst I quite like Byleth and Banjo, I don't think the pass is personally worth it for me. Of the cast I'd probably only play Banjo on a regular basis.
 
Last edited:

Noipoi

Howdy!
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
38,879
Location
Sinnoh (and Hisui)
:ultjoker:: 60%

Not a huge Persona fan, but this was a great way to start dlc. His moveset doesn’t mesh with me, but the stage and music is cool.

:ulthero:: 80%

The granddaddy of JRPGS, in smash at last! The heroes are really cool. I love how they play, even though I can barely wrap my head around all the spells.


:ultbanjokazooie:: 200%

Now we’re talkin! Love this pick! To finally have Banjo and Kazooie back with their Nintendo friends…it’s a thing of beauty! And unpopular opinion, but I like their moveset! Great music, pretty stage (except for the whole motion sickness thing) and by god do they look great in smash! They looks just like HD versions of their designs in the original game, which I also love btw. I will never forget the elation I felt when I watched that jiggy bounce across the floor.

:ult_terry:
: 70%

Terry’s a cool dude with a fun moveset, a fun stage, and a **** ton of music. Good ****.

:ultbyleth:
: 0%

Love Three Houses. Hate this. Any other character from the game would’ve been cool, but they picked the boring bland protagonist. The moveset’s okay, but I don’t think the stage and music is anything special. And in hindsight, out of every character in both fighters passes, this is the only one that sucks ass. In my opinion, obviously. It’s a shame, and a really lame way to end the first fighters pass, but it’s okay. Because more fighters were on the way…
 

3DSNinja

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Messages
1,366
Well, are you gonna be surprised.

First up, Joker.
30%.


Lemme explain this first. I love the Persona franchise. Hell, Persona 3 is straight up my favorite game of all time. BUT.. . Joker in Smash is just so, so awfully presented that I can't say with confidence that it's a good pick.
His moveset is generic, his Persona is basically a reskin of Cloud's Sm4sh limit which is not how that should work, and overall it feels like a lack of creativity or want of what it wants to be. And it'd be fine if he was fun to play for me but . .he isn't. He . . .really isn't. Oh yeah, his alts also are just.. really uncreative and bad save the Akechi alt. He's just . .bland as hell and a very very poor representation of the Persona franchise. The music selection is fine, but also. . I hate how the Persona 3 Mementos is? It's supposed to be green, damn it! The P4 one looks like the TV world, but the blue mementos just doesn't fit! At all! It's nitpicky, but god it bothers me to no end because it just looks wrong. So. . yeah. The stage itself is fine, albeit kinda distracting and I don't play on it much Let's hope the next character is better-

.. oh boy

Hero.
50%
Hero's. . meh. Just aggresively mediocre. The content besides the character is honestly . .ugh. The music is legitimately the worst third party selection besides Sm4sh Cloud, the mii costumes aren't very good either, the spirits are meehh. . the stage. . .Okay the stage is the best part of the pack. Definently a huge stepup over Mementos, and now. .the character himself.
The alts are way better then Joker's, at least! But god. This character is a mess. I hate random crits so much. Legitimately such a stupid idea and they make playing against him frustrating, and in general he's just a frustrating as hell character to fight. His down-b's very poorly designed, and is hoonestly just too much of a mess. He's definently more faithful to his franchise then Joker, so I think he's better, but god, still a mess. I really hope things get better-

Okay, thank you very mcuh.

Banjo-Kazooie
90%
Honestly the thing this pass/DLC needed since. .three misses in a row. Ouch. Banjo's just . .really good. His moveset's simple and works for that reason. His side-b can be frustrated, but he sidesteps Hero's issue by making it limited use per stock, as opposed to MP being. .weird as hell. Hismusic selection is great, and the stage is too! As well, he's got the best Mii Costume set of this pass (and possibly both) by far, with a ton of creative costumes including SANS UNDERTALE which has a really good remix of Megalovania. Overall, Banjo's a return to form, and the thing we needed. It can't get any bet-
Oh.
OH YES IT CAN.

Terry Bogard, aka the best DLC character in Smash History.
100%
Okay so. I'm a big fighting game fan nowadays. So Terry's already pandering to me that way . .but god, he's just. .perfect. His moveset's decent and fits with his character, and I love the input system.He's got a learning curve, and is much more unique then the other Shotos, and I like that. His Go mechanic is balanced out by having to learn inputs for the two supers, and overall those moves aren't too OP and it's a good risk-reward mechanic. He's just very well designed, and feels fair and like he belongs in the game without being DLC OP - another problem with Joker is that he's. .kinda busted, unfairly so. The character itself is amazing. .BUT THE BONUS CONTENT.
I. love Terry's content. Banjo beats him in Miis, but the music. The MUSIC. SNK has amazing music, but here we get 50 songs from their entire game library, and it's GREAT. And the stage is my favorite DLC stage. Getting a traditional fighting game stage where you have to do a certain amount of knockback to break the walls and you can do combos using the walls? It's easily a really fun stage, and it's understandably banned in competetive, but god it's so much fun to play for 1v1s and free for alls. And man, I could keep going, but I don't really think this needs more gushing. The point is.
Terry's amazing. Good thing to, because-

Goddamnit. You were doing so well too-
Byleth
10%
I'll be honest. This announcement was. .fine to me on paper. Sure, more Fire Emblem sucked, but hey, Three Houses was good, and Corrin at least played well. .They couldn't f*** this up, right?
RIGHT?
. . They f***ed it up. Good god, they f***ed it u. Byleth is honestly one of the most incoherently designed characters I've seen in a fighting game. I'd go so far as to say that Pirahna Plant is better designed and made. Honestly. The character's weapon idea doesn't make any sense with Three Houses since. .you know. . those three weapons belong to the house leaders, not Byleth . .? And that'd be one thing - Smash isn't helden to canon, as frustrating as that is. . but the moves are designed in a way that makes the moveset feel like they took a whip sword moveset, a lance moveset, a bow moveset, and an axe moveset, and crammed them together into one character without thinking about how those moves would feel on one character and making them actually fit together and work as a coherent character. It's honestly amazing how bad it is.
And the rest. .The stage is bad. It's just. . .really really bad. The worst DLC stage, including FP2. And the music selection is. .fine. .and the spirits are. .fine. .and the mii costumes are. .fine. . but god, the fact that the character is legitimately up there with Little Mac in terms of screwing up a character design and playstyle really kills the whole pack for me. And the stage being bad on top of that only adds salt into the wound. On top of that. . it's the last character of the pass. Which makes it being this awful even WORSE by comparison, because we expect it to be. . something of higher quality! Not this! Hell, it would've been better if they just focused on the Sword of the Creator - think Ivy Valentine from Soulcalibur. Hell, maybe even work in the Divine Pulse (I think that's what it's called), and it would've been just fine. But. . .ugh.

So, overall rating? Based off averaging, Fighter's Pass One gets a 56% satisfaction score. And honestly, I'm . .very mixed overall. My issue with this pass is that . . it begins and ends on downer notes, and one of those is Joker, who feels like a half-assed Persona rep, and the other is Byleth, who's one of the worst designed characters in Smash history.Terry and Banjo are amazing ,mind you, and Hero's fine, but.. .the bookends of the pass being so messy really kill it for me personally. Let's hope Fighter's Pass Two is better, because there's serious room for improvement. Ah, well. Regardless, that's my take on this pass.
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
60,461
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
A river in a dryyyy LAAAAAAAAND

I don't have interest in P5 but holy **** Joker was fun to see, I remember it like the day was yesterday, I was playing the game because it unlocked at 1am digitally and I was doing some Classic mode runs while checking twitter for announcements at TGA, hoping for that rumoured Prime Trilogy port. Then I saw "Joker announced for Smash Ultimate" and reacted with a flat 'what'. In contrary to a lot of people I fully embraced the whole 'greatest crossover in gaming' aspect so I was optimistic all things considered. Then the character came out, I don't entirely vibe with his kit but the stage looked a lot better than expected and the music, me and my friends would just deliberately sing Rivers in the Desert as offkey as possible. 80%

Calls himself a composer. Decomposes anyway.

100% Jesus christ I have so much fun with this character. I could try talking about the stage being so similar to every other stage like it and how the music sucks, especially DQXI's battle theme which is white noise after playing DQXI, but good god, the amount of fun I've had with any given character is legitimately unrivaled, Command Menu in FFAs is too ****ing good, even when I lose badly I have a smile on my face because I deliberately do bad plays like Hocus Pocus whenever I can as I care more about goofing off. I can go on for hours about how I love landing Whack or Thwack solely for fear factor regardless if it works or not or becoming a giant or blowing myself up

No Click Clock Wood 0/10

0% Maybe it's my experience with lunatic stans, me not liking the original game at all and not even getting the one song I actually liked included here but I just cannot think of any positives about this addition. I find the moveset rather dull and that it doesn't feel right to use and I find the stage that looks so similar to so many others super disorienting to play on, at least it was only a single dud meaning the price wouldn't change if I bought the DLC seperately.

The most deserving character Smash has seen in a long time

Since like, March 2019 I believed Terry was fit for Smash after realizing how much Sakurai took from KoF when making Smash despite spending like 5 minutes on a KoF game in my entire life. However, that infamous leak alongside the amazing CG trailer being sprites made me so happy and I was so upset that we had to wait until November to see what Terry could do. That fateful November however, I was at work and missed the live presentation, however, Terry has the objectively best Challenger Pack we got by sheer content, not only did we get a very fun character I still use constantly but we had a fantastic stage which not only looking different from every other grassy area but had the absolute best gimmick a stage could have. And then there's the music, 50 ****ing songs, ludicrous. Terry's kit flows very well meaning you can just have a blast with him, likely based on KoF apparantly being more freeform when it comes to combo structure. And then the GO moves, I always, always get a kick out of these and it pisses my friends off so much, I'm genuinely upset at the idea of Terry not returning because he's perhaps the best addition we've gotten since Cloud, arguably more if you look at the overall content. 100%, my only issues are so goddamn nitpicky that I can't really consider it fair

Heh, I just got 3H back from a friend, good timing

I was gonna watch the final FP1 trailer with friends but I got so sick I ended up vomiting blood, making me choose not to visit my friends for that. So I watched on my own and I had the most devious smile when I heard those oh so familiar notes. It wasn't Edelgard like I predicted for a 3H rep and preffered but I thought "Might as well check this out" and then Sakurai blew me the **** back by doing exactly what I said he wouldn't do, repping all 3 houses in their moveset. The movedet ended up looking surprisingly fun and hey, me and a friend who hates FE adore the moveset, I also like how we actually have a location from the games, Arena Ferox did that too but this one features a buttload of characters, including a few of my favourites! My only issues are that I think Edelgard would have had a more focused and fun moveset and 2 songs are missing, Shambala, which was used in the trailer and God Shattering Star. Oh, and the Claude alt could have been a bit darker.

The full monty

80% Outside of Banjo, I feel every character brings something good to the table, be it the stage, music or how fun they are to play as and I have to say, I'd be lying if I said I felt ripped off at all, money well spent!
 

Laniv

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
1,399
Lemmy makes a better clown anyways :ultjoker:

Satisfaction: 0%

I will be blunt: I do not like Joker. I do not like his inclusion in Smash Bros. I do not like Persona 5. I do not like his weirdo fans on Twitter. I don't like Joker, like, at all.

Putting aside all my personal feelings on the character, he really doesn't feel like he fits, if that makes sense. Like, the rest of the pass is characters that you can look at and go, "Yeah, that makes sense." But Joker? Joker just feels like the ultimate shill pick, and not the fun kind like Incineroar is. All in all, Joker was a very poor start to the pass.


King of RPGs, King of RNG :ulthero::ulthero3::ulthero4: :ulthero2:

Satisfaction: 100%

But what a turnaround! From the moment the tagline showed up I started cheering. I've loved Dragon Quest for a long time, so Hero was very exciting for me. And the moveset! They're probably the most fun I've had with any swordfighter, and they are currently my most played DLC character (at least up until Sora drops). I'm not saying they redeemed the pass, but they came pretty close

Also Erdrick should've been the default and I will shout it from the heavens forever


Everyone's Favorite Rarepair :ultbanjokazooie:

Satisfaction: 100%

Do I need to say it? Sure, their moveset might be "underwhelming", and sure their stage is disorienting, but who cares? They're fun! They feel like they've been around since Melee, and I mean that in the best possible way. Very happy to see them, and very happy to play as them.


Yes, I am, thank you for asking :ult_terry:

Satisfaction: 90%

You know how some people will see a character in Smash Bros. and get into their series as a result? That's what happened with me and Terry. I do not regret this in the slightest. Hot dang this character is fun. His stage is fun, his Super Special Moves are fun, the music tracks that come with him are fun. My only downside is that there's no Metal Slug Mii costume, but you win some, you lose some.



Do people still give their teachers apples? :ultbyleth::ultbylethf:

Satisfaction: 10%

My main issue is not that it's yet another Fire Emblem character. That's just a fact of life that we'll get one. Dread it, run from it, etc, etc. My main issue is that it's the most boring possible character from the game. We could've gotten Edelgard, we could've gotten Claude, we could've gotten the blue guy whose name escapes me at the moment. But nooooo, let's go for the main character because we have to have the main lord of the newest game. Whatever.


The whole shebang

Satisfaction: 80%

It's like a weird sandwich. The beginning and end are subpar, but everything in between is really great.
 

Sari

Smash Master
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
4,347
Location
New Jersey
NNID
Villager49
Switch FC
SW-2215-0173-2152
Just a heads up but the FP1 day will end tomorrow morning. Make sure to get your satisfaction scores in by then.

Cutie Gwen Cutie Gwen I'm doing calcs so what was your % score for Byleth? Is it the 80% or was that meant just for FP1?
 

zeonie888

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
96
:ultjoker:: I haven't played any persona games but I was aware of the series. I didn't see the live event but seeing that envelop with the smash seal gave me a pleasant feeling and think "Ooo! This pass is looking good!" Quite the character to start off with! 75%

:ulthero:: I have heard about dragon quest but I haven't played any of their games at the time with their trailer I was wondering how their spells would be used. RNG was far from my mind but I'm all for a little luck. 70%

:ultbanjokazooie:: I love their series and played both N64 games. Seeing that jiggy bounce away in their trailer gave me goosebumps. I'm not good with them but I'm happy with their inclusion to smash. 90%

:ult_terry:: Huh, I won't have expected Terry to join but he's a good pick in my opinion. He's got a lot of style and I'm okay with that. 75%

:ultbyleth:: I was alright with their inclusion but what was on my mind at the time was "Uh-oh... Not a lot of folks are gonna like this..." Having use of multiple weapons is neat but I had my expectations low so it didn't bother me that much. 60%

Overall: I think this pack is good and was gonna be just fine with this until the next pack was announced and I was curious about who would be in that one. 74%
 

Final Smash Gamer

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 23, 2012
Messages
2,903
Location
France
NNID
FinalSmashGamer
3DS FC
1848-2225-1295
Switch FC
SW-1567-9471-9502
:ultjoker:: 0%

His addition still puzzles me.

He originates from a game Atlus still refuse to port on Switch for some reason (knowing that it was also released on PlayStation 3, a system the Switch is supposed to be as powerful if not more), and released at a time the Ballot ended long ago.

He could be seen as a representative of the global Megami Tensei franchise, and thus hyping up the future release of Shin Megami Tensei V, but if it is the case, why not having put an actual SMT character like Demi-Fiend?

Also not fun to play as, and not fun to fight against.


:ulthero4:: 75%

Knowing that Dragon Quest is the father of the J-RPG genre, it makes enough sense to put them in Smash.

My only gripes are low-quality selection of music tracks, and Command Selection not being foreigner-friendly.


:ultbanjokazooie:: 80%

I didn't have the opportunity to play their games, and regret so as a huge fan of Rare's productions on the DK and Star Fox franchises, but their inclusion in Smash still brought a large smile on my face.

It was such an historical moment for one of Nintendo's competitors to play ball and allowing one of their characters to be in Smash.


:ult_terry:: 80%

Despite knowing who SNK and Terry are, his initial announcement made me disconcerting. Until I learned how many appearances he made across SNK's productions and beyond.

And he's such a blast to play as, notably every time he opens his mouth.


:ultbyleth:: 0%

No comment.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom