• The Metagame documentary is a finalist in three awards this year. You can vote for it on the Esports Awards.

  • Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

  • Hey, you there! Yes, I'm talking to you, Guest!

    Following Sora's announcement as the final fighter coming to Smash Bros. Ultimate, we've got an update on the future of the Newcomer Speculation forum. Please check it out!

    The Future of Ultimate Newcomer Speculation

Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

Phoenix Douchebag

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 19, 2020
Messages
1,044
Location
ZE BATH
It's funny, i ended up beign one of the people that that had the nicer things to say to Byleth.

:ultjoker:: 0%

His addition is still puzzling.

He originates from a game Atlus still refuse to port on Switch for some reason (knowing that it was also released on PlayStation 3, a system the Switch is supposed to be as powerful if not more),
It's wierder once you see how Western Games that are agruably more demanding like Doom Eternal and Crash 4 make it in the Switch. There's really no argument as to why this game couldn't be ported outside of Sony holding Atlus at gunpoint (since Sony is losing a lot of fans, plus Sony in general is losing the Japanese Market period, you think that since most of the Japanese audience is going to the Switch nowadays) but hey, that means i get to keep my money.
 

Sari

Smash Master
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
4,347
Location
New Jersey
NNID
Villager49
Switch FC
SW-2215-0173-2152
Day over.

It's now time to start the characters from FP2, so give satisfaction scores for Min Min, Steve, and Sephiroth. Afterwards we will be doing scores for the final FP2 characters as well as a final score for FP2.

Megadoomer Megadoomer
 

Ramen Tenghostku

Meiniac
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
14,857
Location
Somewhere
Switch FC
SW-6056-3633-7710
Pass 2 Ratings: Part 1

:ultminmin 爱拉面
Satisfaction: 100%
Y'all already know how much I love this character. The fact that she was chosen out of 15 possible ARMS characters still boggles my mind. She transitioned here in Smash pretty great. Glad ARMS as a franchise is getting represented here, as I love it's world and characters, and it has so much potential in the future. Currently my reigning main here in Ultimate.

:ultsteve: CUZ BABY TONIIIIIIIIIIGHT
Satisfaction 100%
My single most wanted third party. Minecraft was a huge part of my childhood and seeing it make the big leagues here is honestly insane. Moveset is a pretty great representation of Minecraft as a whole. Can't quite use em as much as I wish I could, but I'm extremely happy he's here

:ultsephiroth: BELLS, FROGS, BIG CHERRIES, PETER PAN, HAM AND CHEESE, SEPHIROTH
Satisfaction 70%
I'll admit that I would've preferred a different Square franchise other than FF once again, let alone FF VII specifically yet again, but I understand Sephiroth's inclusion here. Pretty fun moveset, and he came with more than needed extra FF content.
 

SKX31

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
3,373
Location
Sweden
:ultminmin . Yabuki's favored daughter and one of the most popular ARMS characters overall. The guessing game. Broke the Spirit assertion.

"謝謝!" ("Thank you!")

She was initially met with quite a lot of praise and interest (partly since the guessing game was finally over and done with, but also since her trailer came as a bit of a fresh air) although the reception to the gameplay seemed lukewarm amongst more casual fans. Her positive reception has since petered out a bit due to how her gameplay's been recieved - especially in Japan - but her inclusion gave ARMS some much needed momentum. Especially in the West where Nintendo had gone AWOL on promoting that game at all before the guessing game and Min Min's reveal.

Her competitive successes followed soon after her release: while the reaction from pros was initially mixed quite a few saw immense potential with her. It wasn't long before Protobanham - a Japanese top level talent known for his aggressive Lucina - picked her up alongside his Lucina and became Min Min's standard bearer quickly. Protobanham even won the Japanese supermajor Kagaribi 4 with mainly Min Min, making her the first FP2 character to take home a supermajor. Stateside, she has two prominent players: Dabuz and Pink Fresh*. The former added her to his character arsenal alongside his Olimar and Rosalina. While Dabuz is shaking off some rust he's gotten some promising results with her as well. Pink Fresh has gotten really close to upsetting several prominent players - MKLeo included - with Min Min and he's well known for developing another certain character: :4bayonetta:. Currently Min Min's seen as a "top tier gate keeper" generally and has quite a lot of notable players behind her.

Yeah, I've gotta get to this: Why she is hated in Japan. Her competitive results and really polarized matchup spread are two reasons, especially since Japan's competitive scene does not play for money generally (old gambling laws and their lingering effects) and thus has a lot more character specialists. Arguably the biggest reason is online though: Not only has Japanese streamers like MKR Channel clickbaited their way into showing off stuff like the Scholar's Mate (B-Throw at ledge -> Dragon Laser, which could OHKO back when she released), she quickly became pretty infamous for edgeguarding the ledge with zero commitment. I'm pretty damn sure it's why Sakurai and co. nerfed the time she can hold charged Smashes and Dragon Laser's knockback. Her online successes extend to the more Serious Business side where her players have seen extremely strong results in the Japanese ladder Smashmate.

It's legit to the point where Protobanham is worried about her getting additional nerfs, as he admitted when Larry Lurr interviewed him.

Her moveset is extremely potent, and her Specials plus her unique mechanics fuel this. She has Mega Man's jab-while-walking / jumping trait and different ARMS attached to the A / B buttons respectively, allowing her to approach, retreat or react to opponents with impunity. ARMS Change, her Down B, is active on Frame 1 - allowing her to swap between RamRam, Dragon and Megawatt freely to help complement her always-Dragon left ARM. RamRam's arc excels at catching jumps, discombobulating reckless approaches and edgeguarding really safely, Dragon not only gets powered up by successful grabs, but its Laser is excellent at pushing opponents further back should she need it. Megawatt is slow and relatively short-ranged but lingers for seemingly ever and is the strongest ARM by none, making it very good at KOing. ARMS Jump - her grounded Up B - is a good if commital way to follow others aerial approaches or retreat, while ARMS Hook is a tether recovery that can kill surprisingly early.

Her remaining normals consist of kicks, and they complement her ARMS really well. She has legit one of the best anti-air capabilities in the game, not just thanks to her ARMS but also since her U-Tilt is really quick, her Up-Smash is a contender for the best Up Smash in the game period. Besides what Cutie Gwen Cutie Gwen said, that Up Smash is as fast as Fox's - and pre-nerf it was faster than Fox's. Wat. Dash Attack and D-Tilt are good at clearing the way or even starting combos situationally. She also has a strong sets of grabs and throws - not just since her reach is impressive, but also since B-Throw in particular sends at a particularily favorable angle for her.

Min Min's weaknesses do keep her from being overwhelming. She has a really, really bad disadvantage state - her only defensive options once she's hit is to situationally N-Air / D-Air or airdodge. Her Up B also has pretty good vertical reach - but not a whole lot of horizontal reach. She's as such extremely vurnerable to getting comboed / juggled / carried horizontally towards the blast zone. Due to her more unique traits she is much more at risk of move staling than most characters, and she can have trouble with characters that have multiple fast projectiles or who can safely clank through her ARMS. Since her ARMS are relatively committal - even if she can throw out two - she has to play carefully vs. characters who can close in quickly on her. While she can cover most cardinal directions extremely well, she has a massive blindspot diagonally below here.

Casually she's in a pretty weird place. FFAs pose more of an issue to her since there she has to worry about not just more opponents potentially ganging up on her, but also items, ATs and whatnot blowing her up. While her ARMS allow her to claim the corner the character's atypical control scheme can also cause some major hiccups to newcomers just looking to try her out. Still, she can work within a FFA environment if she's played carefully.

Min Min's Challenger Pack is pretty solid. I'm kinda wondering why they didn't go with Min Min's home stag- Oh wait, maybe it was the percieved need to market ARMS again that made Spring Stadium the choice. We'll have to see. Anyhow, it can be a fun casual stage with the springs and what not, my only real issue are the pillars that can prevent kills or even cause janky ones. The music likewise is really good, no complaints there. The only missing Spirit is Dr. Coyle if you ask me - otherwise they did a really great job showcasing ARMS' colorful cast of characters.

All in all, she's a very solid if polarizing character - but then again, any ARMS character would be polarizing just by the nature of ARMS itself. She's definetely happy to be here (especially after being vaporized by Galeem and turned into paper) and that is what counts in the end.



(Weird character interaction sidenote: Min Min has some weird interactions vs. characters that excel in the air - kinda mirroring ARMS' own gameplay where the aerial battles tend to be surprisingly extensive. :ultpit: / :ultdarkpit: are really noticeable cases of this, but :ultyoshi: and :ultgnw: can also partake in extended aerial battles with her and result in some really volatile outcomes.)

(Yeah, she can be annoying to fight against - but a small tip I can give to help make things a bit easier is to try and be unpredictable in your approaches as possible, and she in particular punishes burnt double jumps like no tomorrow. Save your double jumps, they're gonna be needed.)

Satisfaction: 65 %

Addendum: Perfectly okay with an ARMS rep honestly, and even if Min Min released in an overtuned state I personally haven't had too much trouble with her as a concept (or playing vs. her). My main gripe is honestly that her Up Smash shouldn't be a clear favorite for "Best Up Smash in the game" when they've already given her a lot of positives to begin with, but thankfully the recent patch did alliviate my main concerns there. Just need some more finetuning if you ask me.


Okay, so :ultsteve: . 5 years of negotiating. Endless arguments between B-K and Steve fans. Vergeben's whole shebang about Minecraft content.

Punching stage gives me wood - and other materials. (And he's celebrating his Smash anniversary today!)

Steve and his group need no real introduction - I mean, it's Minecraft. Just as their road to Smash was incredibly thorny and difficult - what with all the negotiations, needing to redesign all the stages etc., their pre-reveal opinions were harshly divided and the road to their reveal was marked with a lot of questions. But yet, their October 2020 reveal caught a lot of people off guard: Not least since it came right as Steve was seemingly stuck in limbo. Well, Sonic punched Mario to the Minecraft verse (somehow) and the rest is as they say history.

Steve players has amassed quite a few notable results, even if Smashers were very divided on how effective he is for months on end. His most prominent players are probably Jake and Yonni: both of them have begun to place pretty damn well in bigger tournaments, with those two frequently challenging the bigger names and inching their way closer to more impressive placements. Yonni was just one game away from top 8 placement at a supermajor. Alongside more regional-level Steve mains, Jake and Yonni have helped cement Steve as a very effective character in most peoples' minds and gotten others more optimistic on Steve's abilities as of late.

Since Steve has his unique resource mechanic as well as weapon upgrades the Specials are vital to his gameplay. Neutral B does three different things depending on context: Mine, Craft and Create Block (I can't wait until Minecraft: Create Block edition comes out :4pacman: ) . Mine is relatively straightforward: sure, Steve starts every Smash match with 36 units of dirt, 18 units of wood, 3 units of iron and 2/3 redstone , the latter two of which are replenished should Steve lose a life without sufficient said material in stock. But he's gotta get more stuff somewhere. Oh and several moves do cost resources, so resource management is one of - if not the most important - thing Steve has to worry about. Resources are also gathered at stage-dependent rates, even as Battlefield and Omega stages have standardized rates. Luckily for Steve Gold and Diamond are "once you get them you have them until you craft them" resources. Craft is turning those resources into weaponry, and all his weapons get upgraded to the strongest material in Steve's hand. The damage per material is here:

  • No weapon: 0.8x damage
  • Wood or gold: 1.0x damage
  • Stone: 1.1x damage
  • Iron: 1.2x damage
  • Diamond: 1.35x damage
One major reason why Diamond's so coveted. A 35 % damage increase is no joke. Gotta use the strongest tools while they last. There's another reason why it's so coveted: Steve's Durability system. Like Robin, Steve's sword, axe, pickaxe and shovel will lose durability points on each use. And when that reaches 0, the tool in question breaks apart. Thing is, Iron and Diamond have the highest durability. So yeah, get the strongest tools you can get (most of the time). Gold is a good emergency option since it improves Steve's frame data, but has low durability and relatively weak attack power.

So what are we gonna do with all of that dirt? Create Blocks! Steve can just decide to temporarily terraform the stage by placing blocks of materials in the air. No more than 8 blocks per Steve can be on screen at the same time, and they only last for a short while (especially if touched or attacked) - but the Blocks are very useful for multiple purposes. Such as barrier-creating, combo-extending or sending the rudest message to the opponent. The blocks do use up the lowest-cost material on Steve's hand - which can be a bit of a problem if Steve lacks enough Dirt or Wood, since he'd rather use Iron or other materials for, you know, other moves.

His other Specials (yeesh, I'm only just now done with Neutral B?) have quite a lot of utility. Minecart has befuddled countless opponents - for just a piece of iron and maybe a little redstone Steve sends out a Minecart that he can ride on as a burst option, or leave it and let opponents taste the wonkiest command grab in the game. It's in fact so good as a burst option regardless of skill level that opponents better be ready to see at least 5 minecarts tossed at them each stock. It also is a great recovery option, though it requires gold to gain good distance. Elytra is the return of Brawl's Glide mechanic (only with not much if any ability to gain vertical height unless carefully managed) - it has excellent horizontal recovery potential and as a bonus its hitbox makes it a good escape option. TNT is the "Luxury Weapon" Steve has - while it costs quite a lot to use (this uses up 50 "points" of resources, with each resource giving incrementally bigger points (dirt = 2, wood/stone = 5, iron = 10) ) it's immensely powerful, covers ledge scenarios extremely well and Steve can exploit both these aspects further by Down Smashing or even mining the TNT for those rare resources. No, Down Smashing the TNT does not hurt Steve if the Steve buffers shield right after the Down Smash.

Steve's normal attacks gain a lot of power from the mining and crafting, due to the above damage multipliers and durability. He has Mega Man's and Min Min's "Jab while Running / Jumping" mechanic, which gives his Jab its own flair. It's excellent at just pestering opponents - even though it can't lock unlike most other jabs. Up Tilt / Up Air are excellent anti-airs and combo starters / extenders: notably Up Air is as fast as :metaknight: 's infamous Up Air (with Gold it's even faster!). Down Tilt is a solid defensive option that also does a great job edgeguarding. His Smash attacks are usually very committal, but very powerful in their own ways - F-Smash for example has deceptively long range. F-Air is a solid spike, while B-Air is a slow but powerful - the Diamond variant makes it one of the strongest B-Airs in the game. D-Air and D-Throw summons an anvil: in the former case it's one of the most versatile stall-then-falls since Steve can decide to ride it or not (oh and mine it too), while D-Throw is a good combo starter.

Steve's weaknesses are however worth noting. Due to the above Steve's subject to an inevitable ebb-and-flow: periods when he's very strong and just ready to go with the Diamond weapons, alongside periods when he's without good weapons and need to play extensive keepaway. He really doesn't want to play with a 20 % penalty to his damage. As such Steve players have to be very careful around pressure - his reach is not the greatest. His movement stats are extremely underwhelming compared to the rest of the cast. It not only limits his advantage state some but also - combined with his lack of a traditional projectile - makes him have to get creative vs. most zoners. Getting KOed means that Steve's tools will revert to wood : he can save Gold and Diamond for the next stock, but getting KOed still isn't a good thing for him since he has to use his respawn invinciibility to craft. Careless use of his resources can render specific moves like D-Air ineffective until he can get iron back.

Casually Steve is a very volatile character, and really likes larger stages more than most. Not just since larger stages allow him more space to do stuff, but also since Steve does not like people ganging up on him when he has weak weaponry or few dirt / wood blocks. Still, he does have some moves that can clear the way for him (D-Tilt, D-Smash / U-Smash), but it's much easier for him when he has a lot of reserves. This ebb and flow relates to item play too - he doesn't have the movement stats to contest say Sonic on foot, but can deny a lot of stage control and effectively ensure he gets to an item first.

As for Steve's Challenger Pack, it's good overall. Minecraft World brings with it neat background cameos and interesting differences in its biome variants. The music is good, although only 7 tracks - I have to presume mainly licensing issues (although pace issues can be a factor too). The Spirits are likewise a good representation of Minecraft, no real complaints there.

All in all, Steve is a character who hews very close to Minecraft, and whose impact cannot be overstated. He and the other members of the Minecraft gang (Alex, Zombie, Enderman) join the game by giving no ****s, and he's a very effective character overall. I'm happy he's here.

(Weird character interaction sidenote: Prominent Steve mains like Yonni hate the Hero matchup since Hero gains more out of his buffs than Steve does via crafting. So Yonni has resorted to some advanced camping: )


Satisfaction: 75 %

Addendum: I'm pretty happy that they managed to somehow incorporate Steve into the game and give him his unique traits. It helps that I love janky **** and Steve has a lot of them (Anvil Grab, Down Smash on top off TNT and buffering shield, etc.) although his learning curve is really steep and there are a lot that can trip people up.

:ultsephiroth: . So popular that he will never be a memory. Latin chroruses follow him whereever he goes. Brought in the rest of the FF7 content.

Dis pear.

Sephiroth was never a speculation favorite - while he was part of the Seven Squares list most people focused on characters like Geno, 2B alongside quite a lot of other characters. Instead, his reveal in TGA 2020 came as a major shock - it's evident in not only Maximillian's reaction, but also the general reaction towards the villain. In fact, I do consider it the best trailer if only because Sakurai just decided to recreate Advent Children. Sakurai proceeded to offer the "Sephiroth Challenge": a way to get him playable easrly provided you beat his boss fight. Hey, it was a nice bonus.

Competitively speaking: initially he was believed to be a contender for top tier, although his weaknesses and him not overwhelming tournaments so far has caused a revision down to "top of high tier" territory currently. The most prominent Sephiroth main is probably Ned, a :ultpokemontrainer: player who really liked how Sephiroth plays and chose to add him alongside his PT. Notably he got 2nd in the first post-Bad Year US major using mainly Sephiroth. Other notable mains include Niko in the US and Masashi in Japan, who use Sephiroth together with their :ultcloud: and have achieved strong regional results with the duo.





(What goes on inside their - and other player who main Cloud / Sephiroth - heads when debating who to use. :4pacman: )


Sephiroth's moveset solidify him as a hybrid between the glass cannon / turtle archetypes, and his Specials highlight this. Flare is a slow but highly damaging fireball that can be charged up its Megaflare and Gigaflare counterparts. Its slow start up prevents it from being spammed, although it covers ledge options extremely well and its ability to be charge cancelled until Gigaflare allows it to work as a mindgame. Shadow Flare is highly commital - it does little shield damage nor is it safe close - but highly effective at mindgames and pressuring opponents. Not least since Sephiroth can turn around just before firing. If the move lands the orbs will likely force the opponent into either A) Shield, which leaves them vurnerable to Sephiroth's shield breaks, B) Go on the offensive and risk trading or C) Try to time an airdodge to avoid the orbs, which gives Sephiroth an opportunity to strike after. Blade Slash is a charged Fire Fox in a sense: it can be used as a movement option or charged into the highly damaging but really commital Octaslash. It doesn't cover that much distance, but can be really difficult to challenge. Scintilla is a counter that only hits in front, will always activate and has a damage cap of 25 %... but Scintilla is a GROSS counter. Second strongest multiplier alongside :ultkrool: 's Gut Check and :ultbrawler: 's Counter Throw, freezes the opponent right before the counter comes out and can stifle recoveries (with a hitbox) like no tomorrow.

For his normals he uses the Masamune, and it has different sweetspots. To writ:
  • For slashing attacks, the sweetspot is located approximately at the middle of the Masamune's blade, while a sourspot covers the inner blade and handle, and a mediumspot at the tip. The sweetspot for slashing attacks is signified by a glowing area in the middle of the swing.
  • For stabbing attacks, the sweetspot is located at the tip of the Masamune's blade, while the mediumspot is at the blade.
His sword attacks are generally on the slow side, but the range and often high damage makes them still a threat that others have to deal with. F-Tilt and F-Air are excellent pokes even if they require precise timing, U-Tilt is a scoop that has little horizontal reach but amazing vertical reach: It hits the top Battlefield platform from ground level and can tipper there. Oh it's the third strongest U-Tilt in the game when tippered too, surpassing :ultsnake: 's but below :ultmegaman: 's in terms of power. U-Air is a really bloody big swing that can juggle pretty damn well even if it's commital. B-Air KOes extremely early, especially in his Winged form. D-Air - the Aerith killer - is extremely good at edge guarding / two-framing due to how long Masamune is and can be used as a follow up to a footstool. The Smash attacks are generally hugely committal, but if sweetspoted can prove extremely dangerous or lethal. D-Smash is of particular note since it can shieldbreak if spaced properly.

Those are further complemented by his other moves and throws: Dash Attack and D-Tilt are useful "get off me!" tools that in the former case can kill, N-Air is another such move that can combo, and he possesses a very strong grab game. D-Throw has quite a few follow ups, B-Throw can be followed up with a B-Air for a mindgame or even sometimes kill confirm, and the oher throws have solid utility.

Then we have the Wing. The comeback / snowball factor. While it is somewhat unreliable due to the situation-dependent % it activates, it is nevertheless an extremely dangerous upgrade. His base stats go through the ****ing roof - a 1.3X damage increase coupled with major boosts to ground and air speed means that he'll be able to approach or retreat with much more impunity. He gains quite a lot of super armor frames on his Smash Attacks, making him very dangerous to try and out-read as well. Probably most importantly he gains access to a second double jump - boosting his recovery and making his mix up game more dangerous on top. The activation % can be roughly summarized as:

If Sephiroth has 3 stocks while his opponent has 1, Winged Form activates at ~90% damage.
If he has 1 stock while his opponent has 3, Winged Form activates at ~39% damage.
If he has an equal amount of stocks as his opponent, Winged Form activates at ~65% damage.
And time to get into how the Wing works. Because it is surprisingly wonky and I only learned about this yesterday when looking him up. Specifically, and I'mma lift this section from SSBWiki:

For deactivation, Winged Form follows a system of points. A set amounts of points is granted to Sephiroth upon activation depending on the stock difference (50, 65, 90, 100, 110, from two stocks ahead to two stocks behind).

The main source of point detractions are: A) If Sephiroth takes a stock, he will lose 50 points. These points won't be detracted if the opponent self-destructs.
B) An amount of points equivalent to 0.3 (0.15 in doubles) * base damage will be detracted when Sephiroth attacks. The damage calculation will ignore any multiplier, such as the 1v1 multiplier, Winged Form's own multipliers or stale-move negation.

Also, the maximum amount of points is updated dynamically based on the score difference. Should Sephiroth's accumulated lost points exceed the new maximum, Winged Form will be deactivated immediately.

In short, it doesn't deactivate instantly because it follows a points system, and even though him taking a stock means he loses 50 points, chances are pretty decent he'll have leftover points since an even situation will have him start Winged Form with 90 points (and the other main source of point detraction, damage, might not have accumulated enough).

His weaknesses are worth noting though. The extremely light weight on par with :ultkirby: and :ultmewtwo: alongside his fast falling speed makes him very susceptible to being comboed and KOed really early. His sword swings have notable ending lag and can be notoriously difficult to sweetspot (U-Air is the best example of this), making his damage racking or even KO potential rather inconsistent. He can also have significant problems hitting small characters like :ultkirby: and :ultdiddy: . If Sephiroth's already had Winged Form during a certain stock, he can't regain it unless he's KOed. In addition, while Winged Form is extremely powerful it's snowball / comeback potential is limited by the point deduction. His Specials have their own weaknesses (such as Scintilla's previously mentioned inability to cover behind Sephiroth), discouraging reckless use.

Casually I kinda suspect he does well when people are clumped up and he can either toss projectiles or attack with his impressive AoE. The light weight does mean that he's going to be killed early by items / ATs / whatever, but in return Winged Form can help him at least clean house. While the Final Smash has weak launch power for FS standards (come on, Sephiroth, you blow up entire Solar Systems and still can't blow up the people caught in them :roll: ) its compensated by its variety of RNG effects.

As far as the Challenger Pack goes, it's pretty damn good. Northern Cave is one really good looking stage (even if it can be blinding at points) and shows the craftmanship Sakurai and his team is capable of. It's also a good stage whether competitively or casually, so that's a plus. The music tracks are a solid collection of music ripped from the original sources and remixes - although I'm a bit surprised no FF7R nor other FF tracks made it through. Licensing issues, I suppose. I have no complaints about the Spirits aside from a relatively minor nitpick: Cloud not getting his AC render.

All in all, Sephiroth's a character whose strengths and weaknesses are clearly defined and feels like a villain through and through. His design is a really elegant one, and the character fits his personality. Honestly, I'm happy over the fact that he got included.

(Weird character interaction sidenote: You wanna know how the canon matchup goes? :ultcloud: vs. :ultsephiroth: ? Most players involved consider that one even, although volatile as all hell. It all depends on a couple things. If the Sephiroth manages to wall the Cloud out and play the projectile game the Sephiroth can make the Cloud dance his dance. Sephiroth has no issues killing Cloud. Kinda fitting to the whole "puppet" spiel. However, if the Cloud player manages to outmanuever the Sephiroth and get in he can deal a lot of damage in a hurry - and Sephiroth's light, Cloud has no issues killing him either. Which kinda fits the original FF7's and AC's ending. For example, this match between Ned and Kola's Cloud.)

Satisfaction: 90 %

Addendum: While not my absolute favorite FF addition (that'd go to Terra) I nevertheless really like that they went with one of the most prominent video game villains out there. He plays like it too, which helps to bridge the gap between canon and Smash. That said, there are some aspects that can trip people up too (such as his varying sweetspots) and his very light weight + tall body means that playing Sephiroth is like walking a tight rope between snowballing and being on the backfoot.
 

DanganZilla5

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
1,720
"OOOOOooooOOOOOoooo" - 100%

Yeah I dig Min Min a lot. Like with Dragon Quest I didn't give a dam about ARMS at the time of its announcement but as I researched the characters and saw MIn MIn's presentation, I broke down and bought ARMS. I'm glad I did because it's very charming and fun. It helped get me into fighting games more and has a very cool cast of characters. Min Min was one of the characters that I was most interested in due to her colorful design and cool as heck dragon arm which they utilized very well. I dig Min Min's moveset, as brain dead as it can be. Yes it's a pain in the behind to be on the wrong side of her arms, but man I just love edge guarding with her. Her smash attack's reach is stupidly good and absurd to the point of hilariosity and I can't help but love it. As for the stage, it's not one of my favorites but I dig stadium stages and I enjoy the jump pad gimmick. And I'm very happy with the music selection. ARMS's soundtrack slaps and pretty much all of the major songs are here so that's nice.

So yeah, this is another choice that aged like a Xenoverse blade, very well.

____________________________________

Steve - 90%

Originally Steve got a 100 from me because I love Minecraft. It's a game that holds so much nostalgia value for me. It's the game that really allowed me to pour my creativity into. Plus a Minecraft stage was probably my most wanted stage so I was hyped all around.

Steve is one of the most faithful characters on the roster. They blew my expectations out of the water with how much detail they put into him. The fact that he can actually mine and craft, the minecarts which leads to funny situations and the TNT which is as fun to use as I'd imagine it to be. Granted, he does feel kind of awkward to control and I don't jive with his moveset as much as I'd like to, but I still find him fun to play as and you can pull off some crazy shenanigans with him. I also like the alts, Zombie and Enderman were pleasant surprises that gave me a good laugh and also were more enemies to add to the roster.

For the stage, I'm relieved that they added the ability to destroy certain parts of it, which is exactly what I was hoping for. Six different biomes is neat, and the fact that you can select one in particular with certain inputs is much appreciated.

I got a lot of positives to say about Steve, so why the 10% drop? Well it's because since then we found out that there is no C418 music. That was a huge bummer for me. I love Minecraft partially because of the music which is a big part of its identity. Without it, Minecraft just doesn't feel the same. Now to give credit where it's due, they did a great job remixing the songs. I really enjoy all of them, especially Halland, which manages to give off some of that Minecraft atmosphere and charm. But no Sweden, or Wet Hands, or any of the songs that I grew up with equals a lower score.

_______________________________

My opinion on Sephy hasn't changed so I'll quote my last rating.

Satisfaction rating for the most badass one winged angel

95%

This presentation blew me away. It knocked my socks off then blew me away along with my socks.
  • Seph's moveset is just straight up awesome. Powerful and has some some unique moves, yet not overly gimmicky. I especially like his standard and side special. I will definitely use those a lot in 4+ player battles. I just can't get over how his final smash OBLITERATES THE ENTIRE PLANET. That is sick.
  • 9 SONGS! That is way more than I was expecting. I was expecting maybe 5 songs at most. Not only that, but they chose all the best songs, and gave some of them remixes. I got to hear all of them earlier and they are phenomenal. The remixes are great, especially Bombing Mission. Also, we are now over 1,000 songs which is fan-f*****-tastic. What an accomplishment.
  • The stage looks really cool and the part where Sakurai was explaining the final battle of FF7 was unexpected, but a welcomed surprise.
  • His victory screen......what can I say? It's the best one in the game. Hands down. Joker's is really good, but this one is on a whole nother level of awesome.
  • I'm very happy with the Mii costumes and spirit board. We finally got the cast represented! I remember a couple weeks ago before Seph was revealed I was looking at Midgar and was like "I almost forgot FF was in this game at all." But now I won't feel that way ever again. FF was the one third party series that desperately needed more content and I'm very grateful for what we just received.
  • The Seph challenge was a very, very pleasant surprise. I was cool with him releasing next week, but then Sakurai dropped the bomb that we could beat him to unlock him early and I got super hyped. This was the first thing I did when I downloaded the update. I managed to beat him on my second try by gimping him (on Very Hard btw). I really hope they do this for future characters as it's the best thing when you see the release date then you find out you can play the character NOW if you prove yourself (or just cheese the game). As for Seph's classic route, I think it's cool. I don't care about a potential boss rush mode so I'm fine with it just being a thing for Seph's classic mode.
Now as for why I cut 5 points? Two things. First, I do wish there was something like a Mii costume or spirits to represent characters that are specific to other FF games aside from 7, for the sake of variety. And Geno. I did give up hope for him when I saw Sephiroth, but man the fact that his costume just got ported over with no major improvements or a song is just a slap in the face. As a Geno supporter, it did kind of hurt and I feel so bad for Geno fans right now. This just makes me think he might never happen which sucks. This just shows that Nintendo and Square don't give a **** about Geno.

But overall, this was an incredible presentation and soon after I write this, I'm going straight back into Smash to play Seph and listen to FF music into the late night.
Not much I can add. Sephiroth's inclusion still holds up fabulously and I still think his trailer is in the top three. He is one of my most used DLC characters and they did him justice by making him feel like a boss.
 
Last edited:

MasterOfKnees

Space Pirate
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
8,577
Location
Denmark
NNID
KneeMaster
Switch FC
SW-6310-1174-0352
Min Min: 50% - I'm pretty happy that they chose her to be the ARMS rep, and she's obviously very unique. I've never quite got the hang of playing her myself, and she is a bit of a pain to play against, but ultimately my feelings on her are pretty similar to Inkling, she's very much a middle of the road addition for me.

Steve: 0% - I've been talking about this a lot in these ratings, but as important as it is for a character to be fun to play as, it's equally important to someone like me, who's main is already set in stone, that a character is fun to play against. Steve is bar none my least favorite character to play against out of anyone, it's not even that he's a strong character or anything, his moveset just encourages the player to suck the life out of the game. It's to a point where I genuinely feel like the game would be a bit better without Steve in it, and he's the only character I'd say that about. Again, it's not about winning or losing, Little Mac is the character I have the easiest time beating, but he also sucks to play against because the best way to go about it is to play lame. Steve is much like him where even if you win you never feel like it was a good match. On top of that I don't enjoy playing him myself in the slightest, I generally prefer simpler characters with no weird gimmicks attached, and Steve is as far away from that as any character on the roster. I appreciate how big of an addition he was, even as someone who doesn't enjoy Minecraft and thinks Steve is kinda ugly the day of his reveal was a lot of fun, but I just can't get over his moveset, even if the developers obviously put a ton of effort and care into it.

Also, this doesn't affect his rating, but surely they could have done a better job with the background of his stage, they're not fooling anyone with that low quality image.

Sephiroth: 70% - Another character who I'm not super into, but I do think he made for a good addition overall. I like to see more villains get added, the impact of some of his moves feel really good, he brought along great songs, and is pretty much everything you'd expect Sephiroth to be. I probably enjoyed the spectacle around the time of his reveal and addition more than the character himself, but there is a lot to appreciate about him.
 
Last edited:

BowserKing

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
1,000
Location
winnipeg
Min-Min: 100%. I was somewhat expecting her due to her popularity. She is very fun to play as, and her long range Attacks are very useful. I’m also pleased that we get more then 1 new playable Nintendo franchise in smash. Overall, Min-Min is worthit in Smash.
Steve: 100%. To make it simple, Steve was my third most wanted in smash, after Fawful and Lugia, so seeing Steve get in is a very exciting moment. Steve is not only very fun to play as, but also has tons a moves and moments that fits well in Smash and represent Minecraft well. As a big fan of Minecraft, I approve of Steve getting in and the alts are fun as well. Also the soundtracks are fun. Overall, Steve is worth it in Smash.
Sephiroth: 85%. Sephiroth’s inclusion is quite a surprise and we got a third party villain in the game adds a bonus. Sephiroth is very OP in smash and fun to play as in addition. I also get to fight all the bosses in classic mode and we get actual Final Fantasy spirits, as we’ll as some fun soundtrack as well. Overall, Sephiroth is worth it in Smash.
 

WeirdChillFever

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
6,089
Location
Somewhere Out There
The Dragon Warrior: 50%
I get/like/appreciate that they chose an ARMS character and I get/like/appreciate that they went out of their way to pick a popular character out of the bunch. That’s basically the extent of my thoughts on Min Min.

Blocked, blocked, blocked, you’re all blocked. none of you are free of sin: 65%
I love Steve on a theoretical level. Minecraft is huge and works surprisingly well with playable content, the moveset shows all the ridiculous things you can do with 30-something inputs and a dream you believe in and there’s the whole “number one sales games” thing. On a less theoretical level, I hate how he plays.

One Winged Angel: 90%
Screw the theoretical speculation of DLC. Sepiroth shows Smash Bros. isn’t exclusively an IP fighter, but that it’s a character fighter. With all the talks of new worlds, it appeared that Fighter‘s Pass 2 would collect some profitable IPs and shove some gameplay in a character after beating it up for its lunch money, in order to create some truly unplayable fighters. Well, not anymore. Aside from the idea that Cloud brought the wet fartiest of content, Sepiroth represented diddly-squat other than the fact that he’s the most famous villain in gaming and he was here to do it too. I like that. I like that he’s not a vessel for a bigger sales figure. He’s Sepiroth through and through and that‘s what makes him unique, popular and iconic. This wasn’t Sepiroth from Final Fantasy VII. This was Sepiroth from being ****ing Sepiroth.

And the DLC needed that since it hadn’t had an actual character-first philosophy since Banjo.
 

waddledeeonredyoshi

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
1,466
Location
Drenthe, NL
:ultminmin
Our first character who'd legally not be allowed to acknowledge the independence of Taiwan
Satisfaction: 50%
So when they first announced an Arms fighter I was interested. Not for the fighter itself but the implications the inclusion would bring. Not only were we dealing with another first-party, no matter who it was gonna be, some pre-established fan rule would break, the one most had an eye on was the debate about if Spirited characters from the base game would be able to get upgraded, with Min Min being one herself. I was one of many who was both predicting and rooting for her. She was possibly the most popular of the cast, a fan and developer favourite and being able to kick would give her more options compared to other Arms fighters. She'd be one of the five who would break the Spirit precedent and was the most interesting out of those. Right after the original reveal Nintendo made Arms temporarily FTP and I dipped in. I did not buy the original game and probably wasn't intending to do so regardless of the inclusion so this would've been my only shot at playing around with the Arms cast. I messed around with Min Min for a bit, as well as a few others but Min Min didn't end up being my favourite. I actually found Kid Cobra to be the most fun. Slick design, fun movement, interesting stage, good arms, he was the one who clicked for me. In a vacuum I would want him to be the Arms rep, yet he would also make me lose hope in some of my most wanted characters. Anyways, lo and behold, the character was Min Min. Sweet! Now I didn't have to worry about BWD and Rayman being supposedly deconfirmed. Spirited characters were on the table again and I was briefly optimisctic for my characters...

Then Pythra happened and no more upgrades came after that and in hindsight, I would've just preferred Kid Cobra if it turned out like this.

This isn't me trying to dunk on Min Min. She plays fine (atleast from what I expected from an Arms fighter), has a great trailer and the rest of her pack is pretty fullfilling and represents her game well. But as I said, I was more excited about what Min Min could've meant for the pass than the character herself and when things didn't pan out in the end I just look at her more sourly. That's kinda my fault yeah, nothing was ever guaranteed, but Min Min made me believe this pass would've turned out a lot differently than what we got. I don't think anyone could've looked at Min Min's inclusion and thought "Yeah this means we're getting Steve, Sephiroth and Sora next."


:ultsephiroth:
Sepiryeth
Satisfaction: 90%
Caught me completely by suprise in a good way. I may not have played FFVII yet but I know how big of a deal Sephiroth is. His moveset feels as powerfull as it should be and his reveal was actually top-tier. He's my favourite DLC character next to Terry. I'd also appreciate him fixing the FFVII representation but thinking about it, some of that content should've just been in the base game so I'll dock points for that.
 

Phoenix Douchebag

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 19, 2020
Messages
1,044
Location
ZE BATH
Oh god it begins.

Well, let's get to the first 3 because i want to write too much and doing all 5 in a row for FP1 was too much.

Arms's Chun-Li

Well, at least FP2 starts with a much better character, even if its not someone i care or want. I played the Arms demo and it didn't convince me and never cared enough to bought it, but i still appreciate a new Nintendo character after 4 third parties in a row, even if it suffers from the same "shill" issue as the other 2/3 on this DLC.

Of course, Min-Min wasn't revealed right away for us, instead we were told an ARMS rep was comming, but it never told us who. I personally hoped for Spring Man if ONLY because that would KILL the "Assist can't be DLC" fanrule which technically is still not broken. Granted, Min-Min broke the spirit rule, but seeing how the only other character we got out of that Spirit ordeal was the Aegis, these 3 might as well be an exception to the norm so it's probably for the best that they didn't chose Springs, as that would hyped up the Waluigi Bros only for disappointment.

I can't give much of an opinion on Min-Min due my lack of interest. I didn't bought any of the FP2 characters (yet) and while as a choice in paper is good, i can't say this is a good seller. If i rated this character back in 2020, i would have overrated her because i thought it would mean more First Parties or even a First Party-centric Pass, and you can see how optimistic i was with that when it came to Bandanna Dee's ratings back in the day. Yeah, Hindsight is 2020 on this one, or 2021 in this case?

Weeeeeell it doesn't matter anymore, at least is good to see a Nintendo character beyond the token FE and a stupid joke.

50% Satisfaction.


MOVE IT BLOCKHEAD!

Steve is unique, no question about it. Like every single person under the sun, i know about Minecraft. I love its aesthetic, i love the ambient soundtrack that expresses this quiet and beautiful world (we really got cheated out in the music department for Steve's music pack, don't give me the "iT'S ToO PeACefUlL" horse**** when the likes of Calling to the Night and the Roost are in Ultimate, sometimes a quiet and ambient songs is far more fitting and enjoyable than a song that goes super hard, look at Stickerbrush Symphony from DKC2, which plays at some of the hardest levels in that game, or Roxas's battle in KH2)

and yet, i never cared enough to play it. Mostly because it's a very online dependent experience, you can play it alone but you WILL feel alone. Plus since its a game about crafting and creating and stuff, i don't think i can do most of that since my creativity levels are lower than that of modern Comic Book Writers working for Marvel and DC.

I'm happy Steve came at the right time. After MC came to Wii U, 3DS and Switch, there felt like level of unionship between Microsoft and Nintendo, and that relationship would help us get not just Banjo, but Steve as well. I remember when the idea of Steve in Smash will get you laughed at, i remember when the idea of Minecraft on Nintendo would be preposterous as well.

But i most distinctly remember, more than anything: the Great War of Banjo vs Steve. Anyone who was on Smashboards of 2019 will remember the bloodbath, the trauma, the Creepers in the tre-okay not really it was a bunch of nerds arguing who was gonna be in a party platform fighting game as paid content.

It was obnoxious, it was tiresome, and just not fun in general. I came to this site to talk about the stuff i like to see and want, and while i do NOT shy away to express my dislike for certain things or characters (see the Angel below) this felt like pointless back and forth. After Banjo came in Smash, Steve felt like an uncertain choice, and only came into full force once FP2 was fully announced. I prefer characters that are obvious reveals over "SUPER MEGA UNEXPECTED" Choices, as characters like Steve feel like they were chosen based on merit, while the latter choices felt like Shock Value alone, and once its over, you are left with a character you really don't play that often (out of the wacky super unexpected choices, the only one i actually play as is R.O.B, and only a few times) so Steve beign super obvious didn't matter to me, if anything it made it more comforting. This felt like an inevitability, and out of all the characters to feel like that, i'm okay with him beign one.

In the words of the almighty MC let's player Pewdiepie:
The guy who mentioned Moldybutt's name said:
Yellow is evil, so don't drink Piss.
Well okay that is not really relevant. Anyway, i do have to admit im rating Steve as a character choice and not via moveset, i don't have interest in playing him or his game, and i DO have to admit he only proves my point further that Smash is trying WAY TOO HARD to reinvent moveset, seriously Steve looks like a nightmare to play as. I'll stick to oonga boonga characters like Simon and DK, thank you. At least it's not ****ing Master Chief, thank god.

50% Satisfaction.

But hey, it's good to know the great war of Banjo vs Steve ended up with a real happy ending, it's always great to see when fanbases can finally get along. Maybe Geno gets confirmed and that Means both Geno and DQ fans are happy right?


......................right?...Sigh, alright, let's get this over with.


Kefka is still better.

.........this is the worst of the 3 characters by far. No joke, there's only one character that i consider worse than him. First the positives:
-The trailer was great, even if it felt like ****ing Advent Children's (i thought people hated that movie) horn.
-We finally have One Winged Angel and its AC version, no matter what i say below, these 2 songs are great.

.....that was it............yeah really those are the only 2 positive things.

Well my first problem is this, and i'm gonna quote ProJared, The Kirby Air Raid of Youtubers:

Projared said:
Okay, i get it, everyone Goddamn loves FF7. This isn't a complain or hating on the game, 7 is still pretty good. and for many, this was their first real FF game and because of that its their favorite and hold it close to their hearts............

AND I HATE THAT SQUARE KNOWS THAT
now imagine this as someone who hasn't played FF7, this is ****ing obnoxious. It's like Persona 5's overexposure has done nothing but make me shy away from just like YoshiandToad YoshiandToad said. But now imagine Persona 5 doing that for 20 ****ING YEARS (and counting because the Remake STILL isn't finished) Jesus Christ.

I like Final Fantasy, well, Final Fantasy in its early games. While i do have some interest in 9 and 10 and X-2 (10-2 looks stupid when written this way), i can't say that i have any interest in any further game onwards. FF6 means a lot to me, FF4 is great from what i played despite me not beating it yet, and FF1 was a pretty decent introduction to this series, and i look forward to 5. Back when Cloud was announced for Smash 4, i respected the choice because even if i didn't care or played 7, i knew how iconic he and the game were. In the same way Simon should be THE Castlevania character for Smash, there really wasn't any other choice outside of Cloud, even if FF7 Should have been on Nintendo by that point (thankfully they ported it to the Switch, although it is a very barebones port, still more than what Joker can say)

Hopefully after Cloud other characters like Terra can join right?..................nope, more FF7 schlock sucking. I find it lame especially because when it comes to Thematic Franchises like Final Fantasy, Fire Emblem, Pokémon, Xenoblade, etc, you are better off getting a representative from different games in the franchise instead of sticking to one game. Imagine instead of Aegis in FP2, we got Fiora to coincide with the Xeno 1 remake (Xeno 1 is undeniably the most iconic game in the franchise so far, if only because First Installment Wins) even as someone who played and loved that game and the character, i can tell you that would be LAME. AS. HELL. It's already bad enough that FE's 3 reps are just Awakening and we have so many Kanto reps while other regions like Unova got left in the dust.

I don't care if that sounds like tokenism, those other games should have given a chance. The feel of FF6 and 4 and 10 is VERY different from 7, and i feel like at least something more should have been done with these games for Smash instead of pretending only FF7 exists. This reminds of how Wario in Smash is basically WarioWARE and Wario Land is left in the dust, and even as someone who LIKES Warioware, that is INFURIATING (though for me, Mona is the true star of WarioWare). I feel like if Mega Man in Smash was mostly content from the Battle Network games, it's just frustrating to see a franchise you like and care in Smash have content from games you mostly don't really give a flying **** about, which is exactly what is going on with me and FF in Smash.


But i know the reason Sephiroth was chosen, because FF literally had almost no content in Smash. It was ****ing pathetic, in Smash 4 Cloud literally only came with his trophies and stage which had....................2 not-remixed songs. Then Ultimate comes and they do it AGAIN. This is only made worse as to how other 3rd parties got content in Smash. Bayo and SF which were DLC in Smash 4 got Assists in Ultimate, FF got nothing. Castlevania was introduced and got 34 SONGS, while FF had no new songs, no new music not even ripped OST, NOTHING. To put things into perspective, Cloud's sprit didn't even had his FF7 artwork as an alternate Fighter Spirit, that's how pathetic it was.

It's honestly no wonder that back in those days everyone screamed "UH OH, STINGY! regarding Square Enix content in Smash, can you blame them? They have mostly redeemed themselves by putting DQ and KH content via DLC as well and the content that comes with Sora and Hero is FAR more than what Cloud had in Smash 4 as DLC and that is an improvement. But in the context of FF in Smash, i'm not conviced.

One thing Smash newcomers have avoided so far is that none of the content made me feel "This SHOULD have been in the base game". Yeah, Min-Min and Aegis could be argued as such, but i understand that they had bad timing. But not with Sephiroth, the content he brought such as the Spirits and Music SHOULD have been in the base game, no ifs and buts.

It would have been one thing if Cloud came with those spirits and music in Ultimate's base game, and Sephiroth expanded it via adding more content, maybe even some content from other FF games since the base game covered FF7, but they didn't. Even with the content Seph brought it feels like the bare minimum that should have been at launch. This would be like if Ryu returned for Ultimate, only brought back his stage, his 2 songs from 4, had no Assist Trophy, and had no spirits outside of the obligatory Fighter Spirit and instead locked all of the new SF content for Smash behind Ken as DLC.

That would be ****, and that is exactly how i feel with Seph. I also really liked the idea of Boss Rush as Mode in this game like in Brawl, but the fact that they LITERALLY locked the mode behind Sephiroth's classic mode route isn't doing it any favors. This is disgusting to me. I don't even care about his moveset at this point, i just hate Sephiroth's inclusion based on principle and concept alone.

A character that i don't care about, from a game that i don't wanna play for how overhyped has become, coming with the BARE minimum that should have been in the base game, from a franchise that could have been so much more in Smash and has far more interesting choices. What a ****ing disaster of a character to end the year on, but it was 2020, so it was pretty fitting.


0% Satisfaction.
 
Last edited:

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
14,756
Location
Scotland
the good, the bad and the craft

i should go to that noodle place in town. thats not i joke i just really want those noodles.
100% arms was just a fun game and im glad it got more in smash. i was so hyped when we were told we were getting a character and honestly the way i see it there was only one bad choice on the roster. and it was good going with the most popular choice, though thats not why he went for her. though it was oddly refreshing to see someone else bias in smash for a change. still find it odd that sakurai's top pics were my two favourite characters from arms. overall just great to have

why hello charlie brown you block head
0% eh theres not much to say really. i was half expecting a minecraft character in the game when the rumours of smash on switch began so even though i find him underwhelming i was able to tolerate him more. and his moveset is decent enough, though building blocks seems pointless and id have preferred the crafting mechanic to have gone to someone from ACNH. and true he looks rubbish and the fact he stands up right while getting launched is disorientating theres nothing inherently wrong with his inclusion. hes just boring. get ten percent for having some decent music.
oh hang on hes got that scottish outfit thats offensive. he gets nothing

nothing safer about him
95% yeah that was an awesome reveal. i hope that in hindsight you all realise that of course he was the next FF character. SE love pushing the cloud sepiroth dynamic. admittedly i said he was just as likely as several other FF characters but yeah it was always gonna be him. oh drat that means tifa's next in line. anyway while im not one for villains, like ridley and k.rool his moveset is pretty cool and the pack of stuff he came with is fantastic. plus its very funny putting him in places like the super happy tree. when he was on great bay and saria's song started i nearly died laughing. so much for giving smash despair
 
Last edited:

TCT~Phantom

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
3,374
NNID
TCT~Phantom
Min Min :ultminmin65% Satisfaction

Look, ARMS at the end of the day is not my cup of tea, which held Min Min back similar to Inkling. The difference is that with Min Min, I am gonna be a little petty. Min Min is my least favorite character to fight in Smash. I would not say she is the best character in the game, heck I would not even put her in the top 15 characters in this game competitively. But I do think she is one of the most polarizing and annoying characters to face, mainly because of her ARMS gimmick. Her stage also is one I just do not care for, despite having a solid soundtrack to it. Obviously, ARMS deserved a rep, but I just do not exactly love the execution of it all.

That being said, I am glad Min Min was the rep. She was my favorite ARMS rep by a country mile She was far far more interesting than say Spring Man, despite what some people might say. I am glad they went with the most popular ARMS character and gave her a super weird and fun moveset, even if it can be grating to fight against.

Steve :ultsteve: 100% Satisfaction

I was never a big Steve supporter. I never played Minecraft, even if I know that it is great. I was worried we would get a smashified sort of Steve or a moveset that would show off Minecraft poorly. I just did not think they could translate Minecraft to smash.

I have never been more happy to be wrong. Steve was done so well gameplay wise in Smash. It really is cool how you have to gather resources for his entire moveset. I love how you have to be creative about block placement to deny approaches and gather more resources. I love how his frame data is held back by his mobility, forcing you to be even more creative. I just love the way Steve turned out, and I would love to play him more. I also love playing 4 player matches with my friends as this character. Due to one friend making a casual joke, we have this house rule of "let me get diamond" for steve and it just is funny to watch all this chaos occur as Steve just mines. I love his alts and his stage's layouts are a ton of fun. The music selection we got is great, though I wish we did get some of the extra relaxing songs from Minecraft too. Overall, great pick, super happy to have been proven wrong.

Also fun fact, one of my friends the day before was talking me me about the reveal, and he said "I just hope its not a stupid character like Steve." Cue the next day I was dying laughing. He now plays Steve as well btw.

Sephiroth :ultsephiroth:100% Satisfaction


Now this one I am glad I was on the money about. I spent all of Smash Ultimate saying this was a dark horse pick yall were sleeping on, and I was right. I just wanna highlight that I was able to call this one.

For starters, Sephiroth is the perfect curveball pick. Final Fantasy is a legendary franchise, and that is in no small part due to how FF7 is one of the biggest and most important RPGs of all time, if not outright the biggest traditional JRPG. FF7 on the PS1 has sold more than entire franchises in Smash, it was one of the marquis titles of the PS1 era. While you could have in theory gone with say Terra, Cecil, or even ****ing Tidus, if I am being brutally honest, Sephiroth was always the second Final Fantasy rep that made by far the most sense. There is a reason that FF7 still gets tossed around as one of the greatest video games of all time, in spite of there being a solid backlash to its hype in the late 2000s/early 2010s. It made so many decisions that helped make it one of the most streamlined Final Fantasy experiences. It came out at such a perfect time that it helped shape JRPGs for years to come. I would argue that part of the reason the PS1/PS2 had such a flood of RPGs is because everyone wanted to be the next Final Fantasy 7. Heck, a common criticism for the N64, Saturn, and even systems in the 6th generation like the Gamecube was there were not that many marquis JRPGs coming out there. Final Fantasy 7 is just one of those games that truly changed the game. Since its release, very few JRPGs have had the luxury of breaking through the cultural zeitgeist in a way similar to Final Fantasy 7. Persona 5 and Kingdom Hearts are the main two that come to mind. The fact that one game cast such a shadow over the JRPG industry for decades now speaks to how much FF7 arguably deserved a second rep.

I also think it can be said that part of the reason it did so well was just because it was so good. I love me some FF6 (Chrono Trigger is better though don't at me), FF9, FF4, FF10, FF15, and Tactics. Final Fantasy 7 is in my opinion the easiest final fantasy to show off to someone new. It just does so much right. The worldbuilding in FF7 is great, as it helps you get drawn into the planet's crisis. The cast is perfectly trimmed. One issue I have with FF6, FF4, and to a lesser extent FF9 is that the cast just has plenty of members that do not get the time to really develop or show their own strengths. In FF7, the core cast all gets plenty of time to develop, where even the optional party members get more development and time to show off than some characters in 4 or 6 did. There is a reason that the party of FF7 is so iconic: their designs are memorable and you get plenty of time to get to know each of them. The score is great and the presentation for its time was great as well. The game stuck with people for years to come. Heck, it stuck with me for a long time when my experience playing it first was a ****king demo disc back in 02. I didnt play it for the first time until 2010 or so, after playing FF6, FF10, and FF4, it it is still my favorite Final Fantasy, even if Tactics might give it a run for its money. If so many people are saying that the game is pretty good, you might want to check it out before you roll your eyes and complain it gets too much exposure. In my opinion, it deserves all the hype and legacy it has.

Now that the Final Fantasy 7 rant is done, lets bring it full circle to Sephiroth. There is a reason that Sephiroth to this day is one of the most iconic villains in all of gaming. Sephiroth gets to steal the show and show off in some of the game's most iconic moments. Burning Nibelheim, Aerith's death, the battle at the planet's core, Supernova, Sephiroth always makes his presence known. With his sleek and just cool design, intimidating presence, and how untouchable he felt for the entire game, Sephiroth just stuck with players. There is a reason that he was shoehorned into the climax of Advent Children, he got to show up as a superboss in KH1 and 2, and got even more focus in the remake so far: they know fans love him. With that much legacy behind him as well as being a super popular character, Sephiroth makes sense as the second Final Fantasy pick far more than anyone else?

Why did the Smash community miss him? It could be for a few reasons. Maybe they missed him because of arbitrary rules of franchises not getting a second unique newcomer. Maybe they missed him because not everyone grew up with a PS1/PS2 and saw how much of a looming shadow FF7 was. Or maybe it was because people were so confident that a certain puppet would be the next smash character from Square despite his fanbase being in stasis until his mii costume showed up. Who knows.

What we do know is that Sephiroth has one of the truly best reveal trailers that any Smash character has ever gotten. Galeem seems to have won, the fighters present at the cliff-side seem on death's door. Then suddenly, a slash. Galeem's ball of light spits and turns black. As the God of Light crumbles, One Wing Angel Advent Plays, and you know that Smash was not exactly saved, but now under new management. Sephiroth's trailer had so many fun nods to Final Fantasy 7 and Advent Children it was a treat to watch. It was clear from that alone that Sakurai and the team had a blast constructing this trailer with so many iconic callbacks.

Gameplay wise, Sephiroth is a blast. He is this awesome glass cannon with plenty of cannon and glass. I love how methodical he feels, throwing out Shadow Flares, forward tilts, forward airs, and so on. It just feels like we get to play as a different kind of villain if that makes sense. If Bowser and Ganon feel like these big bruiser force of nature type villains, Sephiroth also feels like a methodical villain as well as a force of nature. You can't just hit buttons and expect to win, but you have as much if not more firepower as a result. You need to be in your opponent's head, reading their options, preying on their weaknesses in order to bring them despair. And I love it.

Sephiroth also has one of the best challenge packs we got. I know some people will whine that Final Fantasy 7 had no content in base and that it "felt bad" to get most of it with Sephiroth, but licensing FF music in general can be a massive pain. It makes sense that it took them a while to actually untangle some of the licensing issues with the FF7 soundtrack. And when we got more, hoo boy we got more. I expected maybe OWA, Advent OWA, and maybe the main theme of FF7. Instead we get an awesome pack full of some of the best remixes Smash has ever gotten. The FF7 remix in smash is beautiful, Aerith's theme is great, and I love love love Cosmo Canyon. Northern Cave also is an amazing stage which honestly should be tourney legal imo, but thats a whole other can of worms. It is beautiful and a perfect location to have a climactic battle, with a jaw dropping backdrop. It is in that elite S tier of stages alongside Mementos, King of Fighters Stadium, and Hollow Bastion for me.

Sephiroth was done so well, I love me some more PS1 love, and getting FF7 to have the legendary status it deserves in Smash was a highlight to the awful year that was 2020.
 

Depressed Gengar

Hana Is Best Girl
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
4,883
Location
The Johto Region
3DS FC
2922-0445-5244
Oh hey, Fighter Pass 2. Still not a great pass but still significantly better than the last one.

Min Min:
The third character I have to talk about who has the whole "translates their fighting game mechanics into SSB" complaint, except this time it's a Nintendo character. I'll admit that having a Nintendo character that actually had a bit of time to shine before SSB and not just be a blatant marketing pick for DLC is so refreshing after Corrin and Byleth, even if Min Min is still relatively "relevant"/ recent.

Min Min satisfaction: 40%

Steve:
And just like how Min Min was basically me repeating what I said about the other two fighting game characters added to this game, Steve is basically a repeat of Hero. Minecraft was one of the last huge franchises to add to SSB, and Steve literally managed to crash Twitter, making him the last character since Hero to actually get a huge positive reaction at the time of his inclusion, and not just get the usual "Woo new character" hype that dies off nearly instantly. Hell, I even really like Minecraft too, so I should be personally satisfied.

But he's also too faithful to how Minecraft works, and that just doesn't translate well into SSB. Granted, it could've been far worse, but it's still awkward at best. And again, music issues, just like Hero. No Sweden or Wet Hands, none of that, and boy does that sting.

Steve satisfaction: 50%

Sephiroth:
But then here comes Sephiroth, one of gaming's most iconic and important villains, right after Steve. And honestly, the fact that there's two big deal characters back to back already made Pass 2 a decent step up from Pass 1. He's not one I personally care for, nor have I tried him out too much, but he's one I have to respect at least. And hey, his inclusion helped patch up the FF music problem, so that's nice.

Sephiroth satisfaction: 60%
 

DaUsername

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 6, 2013
Messages
670
Location
In that corner over there
NNID
DaUsername
Switch FC
SW-1418-0536-1998
:ultjoker:: 40%
It's been almost 3 years since his reveal and P5 is still a PlayStation exclusive. Thanks Atlus, very cool! I mean his stage is great and so is the music, but it probably would have been better if we got a different SEGA character.

:ulthero3:: 65%
I will admit he definitely deserved to get in, and he is kinda fun to play as. The stage and music are pretty lacking, though.

:ultbanjokazooie:: 99%
This is the best DLC character. BK is right up there with K. Rool as one of my favorite characaters to play as. The only reason this isn't a perfect 100% is because the music selection is kinda lacking. Seriously, where's the final boss theme?

:ult_terry:: 75%
On one hand, my brain is too small to actually play as this character. On the other hand, holy crap that music selection.

:ultike:: 0%
But before I get to this rating, this post is sponsored by Raid: Shadow Legends! It's one of the biggest most shilled role-playing games of 2020 an-okay but seriously, I could go on and on about how Byleth is a terrible inclusion, but I think past me did a pretty decent job.
Byleth Satisfaction: 0% (You all knew this was coming.)
Seriously, Sakurai? Of all of all the potential Nintendo characters to add you pick another Fire Emblem character.
Why do you keep doing this?
What's wrong with Zelda? Or Kirby? Or Xenoblade?
Or all the series that have no characters, like ARMS or Golden Sun or Wars or Rhythm Heaven (among others)?
Why does it always have to be Fire Emblem? Why does it get a guaranteed new character with every game it releases while most new games are lucky just to be represented with a stage, music, costume, or Spirits?

And the worst part of this? The DLC characters were apparently picked over a year ago. Can you guess which game wasn't released yet over a year ago?
That's right! Fire Emblem: Three Houses! Sakurai did the same exact thing he did with Corrin and no one seems to care.
But I care.
This is still how I feel. Though we actually did end up getting Arms and Xenoblade characters, but, uh, I'll get more into that later.
All Byleth's inclusion in Smash accomplished was making me refuse to ever purchase any game in the FE series. I don't care how good you say 3H is, I'm not falling for your tricks.

FP1: 55.8%
This is the average of the above 5 scores. Yay for math!
This pass is mostly carried by Banjo, and the other third parties were decent, but if I knew about Byleth ahead of time, I would not have bought it.
 

Laniv

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
1,399
Noodles are the Flow, Noodles are the Groove (or, "2/10, not Dr. Coyle or Lola Pop") :ultminmin

Satisfaction: 70%

From the minute they announced an ARMS character was coming to Smash Bros., I had a feeling it was gonna be Min Min. I was hoping it would be Lola Pop or Dr. Coyle, or even Helix, but hey. Min Min's okay. Her moveset is... something, all right, but it's about what I expected.


It's The Hard Block Life, For Us :ultsteve:

Satisfaction: 90%

I burst out laughing when Steve broke through those blocks. I am so glad they just ported him directly from Minecraft and didn't try to "clean him up" like plenty of other renders did. He's fun. I like him, even if I've never actually played Minecraft.


I don't even like pears :ultsephiroth:

Satisfaction: 55%

Hmmm. Hm. On the one hand, I can see why they added him. Sephiroth is the most popular FF villain, and is one of gaming's most iconic villains. It makes sense.

But, I gotta say, he was not my first FF pick, or my second, or even my seventh. If we have to have another Final Fantasy character, I wish it was someone from a game that wasn't VII. We coulda gotten Black Mage, or Terra Branford, or a Moogle riding a Chocobo. I wish they could acknowledge other Final Fantasy games.

...At least his trailer was great.
 

White Frost

Not that icy
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
32,943
Location
Some Cave
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Min Min

Satisfaction: 5%. ARMS is cool. But she has zero interest to me. I didn't really get enough into the game to really care about much of anyone. So the only ones of interest to me were Spring Man, Ribbon Girl(the two mascots), Max Brass(previous champion), and Dr. Coyle(only real villain). That said, she's still cool, but she isn't for me.

Steve

Satisfaction: 100%. Like Banjo & Kazooie, I predicted him being in. I only didn't get the Herobrine alt right, but Alex was an obvious alt to me(and she's also getting an amiibo!). While I can't really play well as the character, that's okay! It's still the biggest addition to me, due to being another gaming icon. One I consider on par with Mario, Sonic, and Pac-Man, which is part of why I wanted to see 'em.

Sephiroth

Satisfaction: 100%. Not entirely cause of Sephiroth, but also cause I got an Aerith Mii. That was the big thing I wanted. It sucks Geno didn't get more than polish, though, but it's not like he's one of my core wanted. That said, he did give me an idea for one of my previous name changes; One-Winged Bagel

(No, I don't have cheesy joke lines, sorry)
 

SneakyLink

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
9,102
Location
Land of Oz
NNID
bne9635
Switch FC
SW-6259-3694-6593
Let's stretch this one out!
Min Min: 80%

Of all the ARMS characters, Min Min quickly became my most wanted and I'm happy she got in. The moveset is accurate (although a bit too simple) and the music is great. The stage, while I understand why they chose Spring Man's, is not Min Min's from ARMS, which knocks some points off.

A creeper blew Mario up. Hope he can recover his items.
Steve: 100%

Like Banjo & Kazooie, Steve was one of my most wanted characters, so to see him get in and be unchanged (them "Smashfying" Steve, so to speak, was actually something I hoped would not happen) was beautiful. Everything about the character is perfect and the stage and music are nice.

If I had to say a negative, it's that none of the original Minecraft music got used.


Sephiroth: 10%

On one hand, Sephiroth brought a fun stage, amazing music and a cool reveal trailer. The moveset is not my favorite but it gives Sephiroth a cool "Final Boss" vibe that I feel other villains lack. Those factors should have put Sephiroth much higher (roughly around 70%), but Sephiroth falls under a unique category that makes him lose a bunch of points regardless of the content brought: the poor timing of his reveal.

Approximately 15 hours before the reveal I lost my grandmother. My mind was not on Smash and to hear there was a Smash reveal at TGA meant a distraction from what had happened so I tuned in. The trailer, although cool, reminded me too much of the events from earlier, thus making it the only reveal I get sad about, since it reminds me of what I lost. (The line about giving Smash despair doesn't help either)

Sorry Sephiroth, had you been revealed later or earlier you might have gotten a higher score, but giving me despair when I was already sad is a cold move. Thus you get my lowest satisfaction score of the DLC.

(Ok sad story over, don't worry the next three are much happier reveals to me)
 

Noipoi

Howdy!
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
38,879
Location
Sinnoh (and Hisui)
:ultminmin: 60%

Not huge on her, but ARMS is a decently fun game and she’s got a really interesting moveset. Unfortunately it’s a moveset that doesn’t really click with me, but it’s still cool.

:ultsteve:: 100%
Minecraft is awesome and this is hilarious, so I’m happy. Seeing Minecraft so faithfully recreates in smash is awfully nostalgic. And the moveset is super wacky, in a fun way. Also, Enderman costume. Based.

:ultsephiroth:
: 70%

Sephiroth is just pure badass, and the moveset reflects that. Even though he’s light as a feather…I don’t have much to say here, he’s just cool. Also, we’re in agreement that his trailer is the best one right? Okay.
 

DrifloonEmpire

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2019
Messages
1,387
:ultminmin Min Min

Satisfaction: 40% -
Never really cared much for ARMS, and I was so disengaged from it during the Switch reveal presentation that I honestly mistook it for random shovelware. Nonetheless I feel bad for thinking that back then. Still, even after playing ARMS with a friend and being disengaged by its' lack of content, Min Min was an okay choice. It was good to see it get vindication after the disastrous previous character seemed like a red carpet exception. Still, for the most part Min Min's inclusion felt like a (mostly failed) attempt to revitalize ARMS when it fizzled out quickly despite strong launch sales. It feels like they were trying to recreate Splatoon's success and missed the mark. Nonetheless, I do like how Sakurai got creative and made a Tekken-esque gimmick for her to translate ARMS' gameplay. And Spring Stadium is a nice, energetic, and colorful stage. Though I do think her spirit board was rather lacking. Most of it is made up of recycled base game spirits when, being a complete first party, they could've done the full 15-character roster. I also hate how Spring Man was treated during this. While he was caught between a rock and a hard place (as his promotion would've upset fans for being an assist that got promoted in the same game as his assist's introduction, which would've tipped off Waluigi and Isaac fans), he didn't deserve the treatment he got, both from fans (I couldn't give two ****s about Chrom, but we really didn't need another character to end up like him) and from the official devs as well (did we REALLY need that feel-bad background detail?). Even the trailer kicks him around a bit. He's the mascot and a nice guy, he really deserves more respect, "everyone's the protagonist" be damned! So yeah, indifferent to Min Min. Inoffensive and was interesting to see, but the long, grueling speculation period for an obvious choice, along with the anti-Springman feel-bad and somewhat lacking content just leave me feeling rather annoyed and overwhelmed. But that wasn't really Min Min's fault, just the circumstances surrounding her.


:ultsteve:
Steve

Satisfaction: 100% -
Definitely my favorite pick of the pass! Not only did he have the star power, but I had recently began playing Minecraft around the time he was revealed and realized just how cool the game was! Steve by far is the moth faithful character in the pass as well. All of his movements and moves replicate Minecraft excellently and his crafting gimmick is one of the coolest I've seen in Smash. And considering how much work Sakurai did to make the gimmick work, that extra effort really shows! Alongside that, the stage looks breathtaking and the musical remixes were great! While it was a shame I honestly didn't mind the lack of central Minecraft music. The Spirits and Miis were good as well, really no complaints about Steve! A very faithful, unique, and fun character from a franchise I grew to like! And definitely the refresher the DLC season needed!



:ultsephiroth:Sephiroth

Satisfaction: 70% -
I was initially very annoyed with his reveal. Expecting another paltry-content Square rep, he was the secondf FF7 rep (when SNES Final Fantasy really needed it instead) along with being yet another JRPG character in a very JRPG-heavy DLC season. Though part of that opinion definitely changed when the Sakurai presents came along. I have to say, I'm very happy with the content that came with him, his spirits and music are good, and his Mii costumes really round things out nicely! It's good to see Final Fantasy get the content that it deserves after Cloud got shafted. I'venever tried playing as him myself, and while the JRPG fatigue hit hard, at least he was a truly historic and famous rep for the genre, one of THE big villains of gaming, so even if I preferred other characters I can definitely see why he's here.
 

Sari

Smash Master
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
4,347
Location
New Jersey
NNID
Villager49
Switch FC
SW-2215-0173-2152
Calcs

Big reminder to everyone that you need at least two full sentences for your scores to count! This has been a rule in this thread for as long as I can remember, and as a result a lot of ratings from the other day were not counted. Keep in mind that they need to be full sentences, so ones like "nuff said" don't count.


:ultjoker: Joker
Satisfaction: 53.46%

Time has not been kind to Joker at all, as his previous satisfaction in April 2019 was 79.75%, meaning he dropped by more than 25%. This is the biggest drop from a character's initial satisfaction score to their post-FP2 satisfaction score.

Something very important to note is the sample size of the people submitting responses. At first I assumed that the low score was because of not that many people showing up compared to last time, but it has been brought to my attention that more people have done Joker satisfaction scores today than the one in 2019. The first rating had roughly 20 people participate while this time we had over 25. So what the heck happened here?

Probably the most obvious reason the score isn't as high as it used to is because this was more of a general rating, as opposed to being right after his moveset and stage was shown back in April 2019. That may explain why his score isn't as high as before, but cutting it so close to the 50% threshold may mean that Joker isn't that liked around here.

One common complaint brought up is that Persona 5 is still not on Switch. None of the other characters in this pass really suffer from a lack of Nintendo familiarity, as all of their main games can be played on Nintendo systems for the most part. Other complaints included Joker's moveset not living up to its potential, his reveal mainly just being for shock, and a general disdain for the Persona fanbase.


:ulthero3: Hero
Satisfaction: 75.31%

Previous satisfaction score was 68.57%. Keep in mind that we did the first rating after their E3 reveal and NOT after the Sakurai showcase (Banjo hype was real so can you really blame us for jumping the gun?).

While the increase in score probably isn't too significant, I think that people warmed up to Hero after learning more about how influential the DQ series is.

I expected Hero's RNG elements to drag down his score, but it was not very effective despite being brought up a few times. Ironically enough, it seems there were more instances of people LIKING Hero more due to his RNG/general jankiness. I feel like this serves as a nice reminder that at the end of the day, Smash is a fun game not meant to be taken too seriously.


:ultbanjokazooie: Banjo
Satisfaction: 81.72%

Previous satisfaction score was 83.09% back in June 2019. Not much to say here other than Banjo is still a popular character.


:ult_terry: Terry
Satisfaction:
85.63%

Previous satisfaction score was 84.39% back in November 2019. No significant change since then.

I think it really shows how great of an inclusion Terry was when he went from someone almost never brought up in Smash speculation to achieving a higher satisfaction score than one of the biggest requests since the Smash 64 days. A true underdog story.

Terry now officially holds the honor of being the most well received FP1 character (in this thread at least). Notice how I said this now and not at the end.... because the score of the final character shouldn't come as that much of a shock...


:ultbyleth: Byleth
Satisfaction: 40.88%

Previous satisfaction score was 58.34% in January 2020. It seems past wounds of having the final FP1 character trailer consist of an unceremonious Byleth reveal and Sothis shouting at the camera have not gone away, as Byleth dropped by nearly 20%.

I don't think I need to explain why Byleth's score is so low, as you've already heard of the arguments against them on the day of their reveal and the approximately 5,000 times Byleth has trended on Twitter. I guess I'll just add that Byleth probably has not aged well especially considering how much high praise the later characters got.

Also with a score of 40.88%, Byleth is officially the most disliked newcomer for Ultimate, beating Piranha Plant's recent 45.32%. This includes both the post-FP2 scores we're doing now as well as every satisfaction score we've ever done. None of the characters going forward had as much general animosity towards them as Byleth did, so expect Byleth to hold this title for the rest of this thread's history.



Poor Byleth can never catch a break.


Fighters Pass 1
Satisfaction: 70.87%

Seems FP1 was generally enjoyed for the most part. Will FP2 be more well-received? Only time will tell (or in this case, the next couple of days or so).

even the one thats an offensive serotype?
?????

I'm assuming this means the Scottish kilt one? I... don't think I've heard someone call that offensive until now.
 
Last edited:

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
60,461
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
**** those normals holy ****

I used to think ARMS could make for a fun character back when the base game had yet to come out, especially after seeing a mod with Ganondorf in Smash 4 work exactly how I'd envision ARMs, so when they announced it I thought "ARMS? Neat, who is it?" Only to be met by "lmao see you in 3 months, now talk about ARMS for 3 months" which was bull****. Then her showcase was there and I thought "This might be fun" but nope, not only is she infuriating to fight against, she's so boring to play as, I feel myself losing braincells playing this character and the stage is pretty dull too, maybe the music would help, that is, if it wasn't all the same. I get leitmotif and all but even No More Heroes goes out of it's way to get different sounding tracks. 0%

I can't even joke about this holy ****

I'm not a fan of Minecraft, I've only played 20 minutes of it in my life and have no plans on changing that. But goddamn this was ****ing sick, I couldn't see this live but Steve's gameplay is exactly what I imagined which is so vindicating lmao. Then there's the stage, the blocky look is super charming to me and goddamn, nobody told me Minecraft had music this good. Finally, how he plays competitively, I am ****ing amazed at the crazy bull**** Steve can do. 100%

ESTUANS INTERIUS IRA VEHEMENTI

I don't think I can go in detail as there's so much to like. This fixes the biggest issue people had with Ultimate, it's the best trailer bar none, incredibly fun to play and so well animated to the point he's easily got the most personality of the cast. 100%, nothing I can say in detail can express just how happy this makes me
I'm assuming this means the Scottish kilt one? I... don't think I've heard someone call that offensive until now.
It's deemed cultural appropriation for someone who isn't Scottish to wear a kilt, other than that, the only thing is about the tartan plaid used as they can indicate heritage, profession and military, etc, but there's also kilts that exist solely for fashion so if Steve's alt uses a fashion kilt it's not offensive
 

Strider_Bond00J

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
2,863
Location
la-lio~n~
Switch FC
SW-2525-8699-9095
This page really does embody YMMV, doesn't it? Eh, my reality is mine, so be it. In the end, these don't really matter in the grand scheme of things since it's just a small corner of the internet.

:ultminmin Funny reminder that they brought back Captain Falcon's VA just to have him slurp noodles for Min Min's trailer.
An ARMS character I felt was something that was well-deserving of an entry into Smash Bros since the beginning, as well as ARMS being generally successful for a new IP. Not Splatoon levels of hype and success, but pretty solid for a new IP launched in the Switch's first year. It was disappointing that Spring Man was thrown out the window as an Assist Trophy since he is the face of ARMS along with Ribbon Girl, but as the director eventually said according to Sakurai, you could make the argument that everyone in ARMS can be the main character.

Min Min is a pretty fine addition since she's all around popular, but not as popular as Twintelle. She certainly has good concepts and ideas in theory what with looooooong noodle arms and being able to swap ARMS. The problem is actually fighting against her since she's so good at controlling neutral it's hard to even get close and fight her. The Ram-Ram in particular is quite infamous for ledge traps. I don't play her too much, but sometimes she can be fun to boot up against CPUs. Spring Stadium's a fun stage and all the main ARMS songs are here too. Boiyoing~
Overall I'd say my rating for Min Min would be 62%. Not super hype and can be incredibly frustrating at times, but an ARMS character is welcome if you ask me.

:ultsteve:
Steve has to have been the character I had a roller-coaster ride with. Back since the game's announcement and all the initial speculation, the fact that Steve was now being considered garnered annoyance or hatred from me since I never liked Minecraft (initially) and held it in the same boat I view bleghnite. Not helping matters were the wars between Banjo Kazooie vs Steve, and the horrifying Grotesque Steve meme that was being shoved around by people. shudders

Come Banjo-Kazooie's addition, I think my seething hatred for Minecraft started to wane since I felt that it wasn't worth the time or energy to do so. Part of me then started to see Minecraft in a slightly better light what with how I began to develop a bit of better appreciation for it, even considering "Maybe a Mii Costume for Steve could be nice to see..." This may sound unbelievable, but honestly I have to thank hololive for actually making me have a proper change of heart on Minecraft entirely. Seeing all the girls have fun on the Minecraft server and the shenanigans that entailed and still continue to this day won me over and think "You know, maybe Minecraft isn't so bad after all." So in the end I eventually picked up Minecraft on Switch and had fun exploring. Should return to it again one day...

Come the announcement of the second fighter I was not sure what to expect, though when I saw a tweet from game insider ZhugeEX making hints that suspiciously sounded like something about Minecraft, I was prepared for the worst. But upon actually seeing Steve I had the stupidest and silliest grin on my face. I was proven wrong in the most wonderful way possible. STEVE IS IN SMASH BROS. The amazing remix playing in his trailer was also a great way to win me over. But another pleasant surprise was seeing Alex, a Zombie but even more so the Enderman, which for some reason got me even more excited. And apparently enough of a shock to crash Twitter itself. Sakurai you mad man.

To conclude, Steve is a wonderful but extremely difficult inclusion in Smash. They are so unlike any other character and naturally have a very unusual fighting system, what with being able to place blocks, mine the stage and having a weapon durability system like Robin. I often play Steve or Enderman for the hilarity of it and still enjoy them, but they're pretty tough to get a mastery of since you have to keep track of a lot of things. Ultimately, if you asked the 2018/19 me about Steve? That would be a 0% satisfaction. But the present me? A full 90% satisfaction. I couldn't have been happier to have been proven wrong.

:ultsephiroth: The savior of TGA2020, but not for Smash Bros.
I was traveling in the car with family at the time so I couldn't exactly follow what was happening live at TGA2020 outside of social media until I got home, but upon refreshing the Tweets, I saw "SEPHIROTH!?!?" Wait what!? The next fighter is SEPHIROTH!?!? AND IT WAS NOT A JOKE. SEPHIROTH IS IN SMASH. I did not see that happening at all since everyone was well aware of how little Final Fantasy got in the vanilla version of the game, but SEPHIROTH!?! HOLY CRAP THIS IS AMAZING. This was just an amazing reveal and what a spectacular way to actually show that there's more than Cloud, 2 songs and Midgar.

Sephiroth is all around amazing and probably alongside Joker or Terry as my favourite DLC newcomer. His playstyle is powerful and imposing, and his regular attacks have some sort of haunting elegance in their animations, if I may say. Winged Form is a little anti-climactic, but Sephiroth translates to Smash extremely well. We also got Supernova as his Final Smash which is spectacular - of course not the terrifying 2-minute version but the fact it even replicates the status effects it inflicts on you shows how faithful to the source material Sephiroth is. The Barrett, Tifa and Aerith Mii costumes are great too, and we finally get more songs from FFVII too, and the series now actually feels completely represented in Smash now. 1000% satisfaction if you ask me.
Northern Cave is a simple but cinematic stage,
 

Final Smash Gamer

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 23, 2012
Messages
2,903
Location
France
NNID
FinalSmashGamer
3DS FC
1848-2225-1295
Switch FC
SW-1567-9471-9502
:ultminmin: 50%

I don't have strong feelings towards her, nor the game she comes from for that matter.

I just would have preferred Twintelle, but :ultminmin happened to be the most popular ARMS fighter, so eh.


:ultsteve:: 55%

The fact he comes from the best-selling video game of all time is enough of a reason to include him in Smash.

I'm one of the rare individuals who haven't played it, but it didn't prevent me to be in shock when he mined those two rock blocks.

Gameplay-wise though, he's not my cup of tea.


:ultsephiroth:: 100%

Arguably the hypest third-party addition in Smash history.

Th complete opposite of :ultjoker:'s in short.
 

zeonie888

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
96
:ultminmin: I was aware of Arms and was interested to see who it would be. With all of the struggles and Captain Falcon eating the ramen was quite funny to me. I thought it was neat that she was the chosen and watching those arms of her have a far distance suits her since that could also be done in game she's from. 65%

:ultsteve:: I was surprised to see him get in. Minecraft is a big game though and with his moveset with gather materials from the stage itself and in some stages the things were different too. I'm happy for those who wanted Steve in the game. 75%

:ultsephiroth:: Okay this guy caught me off guard when I watched the trailer and when I heard the first three notes I recognized who it was. I didn't think that Final Fantasy would get another ref and I was wrong with that thought. Although there are few other villains from the series I am alright Serph here to fight Cloud yet again. 70%
 

Blankiturayman

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
459
Well, it looks like I missed out on the FP1 ratings sadly, but it is what it is.

Ramen: 80%
While I hadn't really played ARMS before the initial announcement, I tried the game through the trial afterwards and enjoyed it so I'm pretty alright with it. Out of the characters, Min Min was my choice to go to (yeah, I know, not an unpopular opinion) so I'm happy it was her who made it. I think in other circumstances it would've been someone else, so it's nice. Her moveset is fine, it could be a bit better since her moves at the end of the day mostly are throwing out ARMS, or hitting with a neutral air or something, but even now I'm still pretty happy with her.

Blockman: 30%
I don't think this choice was misplaced, it's entirely understandable, given the game's caliber and all. But I just don't play as Steve much even now. I didn't find the playstyle too fun, and I didn't have much of an attachment to Minecraft to bother either, which would mean I don't use the stage much either. He's pretty much "just there" for me as it is. Well I guess I don't mind him as much as I did when he was first announced.

One Wing: 85%
Cool reveal, cool character, cool stage, he's pretty good all-around. I like how he feels to use, a heavy-hitting long sword, that really strong Flare move even if it can be unpractical to use the full one a lot of the time, overall I'm pretty satisfied with him. Would I have preferred someone else from FF? Yeah, since Cloud is here already, but I don't mind by now. From FP2 so far, Sephiroth ended one of the characters I played most, though I have a feeling I'll play the newest character more.
 

Sari

Smash Master
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
4,347
Location
New Jersey
NNID
Villager49
Switch FC
SW-2215-0173-2152
:ultminmin
Satisfaction: 70%
I could never really get into Min Min's moveset but I greatly appreciate her inclusion for repping a new Nintendo series that needed more content in base game. The two limb mechanic is something that I quickly realized wasn't for me, but it's still a cool thing to have. Granted I was sort of hoping for Ribbon Girl since I liked her more, or Spring Man so the AT's can't be promoted within the same game argument would finally be dead. But Min Min gets the job done.

:ultsteve:
Satisfaction: 20%
Unlike with Incineroar and Plant, I've warmed up to Steve a bit. But that isn't by a lot as he's still my least favorite of all of Ultimate's DLC characters (barring Plant of course).

For starters I never really got into Minecraft. Honestly I'm not sure why I didn't since it's similar to Legos which were a giant part of my childhood, but it just never really clicked with me. Steve seemed like such a weird character even by past Smash precedent that I never really gave him much thought. And then he got revealed and it felt like I was in a really bizarre dream. It goes without saying that I wasn't exactly thrilled for Steve getting in.

I don't find Steve's moveset fun at all. This to me is a perfect example of a character being way more complicated than they should've been. I feel like a good character in Smash should strike a balance between being faithful to their game and not being too faithful to the point where they're overly complicated. Inkling is a great example of a character achieving this balance, as the ink gimmick is faithful to Splatoon while not being too crazy. Heck, even Kazuya with his roughly 30 input moves I think has a great moveset since the inputs don't really interfere with his overall gameplay plan.

Having basically every single move in Steve's arsenal rely on mining and weapon durability just isn't fun to me. It's not hard to learn, but it makes playing as Steve feel like a chore since you'll use a few moves and then immediately have to go back to mining or using the crafting table. I would've preferred if they went the Inkling route and just had some of Steve's moves revolve around the mining gimmick and that's it. I also feel like Robin was a character that did the breakable weapon thing better, as you were punished for overusing certain moves in quick succession rather than just using any move at any time. Weapon durability is something that I generally hate so it seems like Steve and I were never going to mix well (from all this talk of breaking weapons, I just realized how thankful I am that BotW Link doesn't have breakable weapons in Smash).

I'm also not too big a fan of the music we got. It's ok, but none of the tracks really stuck out to me and the fact that we only got 7 hurts a lot especially compared to other characters like Terry and Kazuya.

I do at least appreciate Steve's inclusion since Minecraft is so big and you can't deny that Sakurai didn't put in any effort with his really in-depth moveset. So yeah the initial hate I had for Steve has gone away, but in the end he's still Steve to me.

:ultsephiroth:
Satisfaction: 90%
Sephiroth was a character that I never really gave much attention to prior to his reveal. I was hoping that other Square characters would get into Smash instead (mainly Neku) and I didn't really see FF7 getting another character.

But wow did he blow me away, from his amazing reveal trailer down to his fun moveset. He really does feel like the definitive boss character fighter with how strong and satisfying his moves are to land. The additional FF music is a great bonus with One Winged Angel being one of the biggest missed music opportunities back in Smash 4.

Easily the best character of this pass.
 

slrigeigdew

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
291
Location
Colorado
:ultminmin: 50% ARMS absolutely deserves a slot in the roster and I'm glad ARMS fans didn't have to wait all the way for Smash 6 at a chance to get representation. Her stage and character reveal trailer was also pretty good even if we knew we'd be getting an ARMS fighter beforehand. Unfortunately, that's all the nice things I have to say about her. The staggered reveal of the series of the fighter before the actual fighter made speculation unfun since a certain segment of the community was insistent we'd be getting multiple fighters in one slot despite that making no sense whatsoever. The wait was also excruciating because unlike Joker I had no desire to play this character even if it was someone I personally liked (i.e. Twintelle or Lola Pop). The worst part is that while her inclusion was more welcomed than Byleth I found the former way less fun to play than the latter.

On a side note, I didn't vote on Byleth but I would have rated them slightly higher than Min Min. Whereas Byleth was a victim of bad timing, Min Min was a victim of bad circumstances. She was too late for base roster and by the time she was released as DLC both the world and smash community was on fire. With no IRL smash tournaments and no directs or E3 in sight, my interest in Smash at the time was at an all time low. If Byleth killed the Smash hype then Min Min put the nail in the coffin. (Don't get me wrong tho, both of them absolutely deserved to be in the game I just prefer playing as one over the other)
:ultsteve::ultalex:: 70% Being the only character(s) to break the bird app even after the final Smash character reveal is a testament to Minecraft's legacy and popularity. I was already surprised they didn't have a bow and arrow anywhere in their moveset but even more surprising was how such a simple looking character was hiding a complex moveset. I'm glad they went above and beyond with this character because the amount of sick **** you could pull off at the highest level perfectly captures the feeling of playing Minecraft. Too bad I don't play Minecraft much these days but it's nice for the Minecraft fans to express their creativity in Smash. His animations may be lacking but the attention to details from his games more than makes up for it. I wish there was an extra song or two but other than that he's a rock solid pick (pun completely intended)

I figured if we ever got Steve we'd also get Alex but Zombie and Enderman were nice surprise so he gets bonus points for that. Also the fact that they actually put down a bed in their sleeping animation will never not be hilarious to me. That's like some looney tunes type **** and I love it!
:ultsephiroth:: 100% Unironically the best character in Smash. Perfect reveal trailer, perfect moveset, perfect FF7 representation, just a perfect character all around. Heck even his Sakurai presents was really charming with the reveal of his Boss rush-like Classic mode and temporary Sephiroth challenge. After MinMin people were already tempering their expectations for the rest of FP2 but Sephiroth dared them to dream big (for better or for worse depending on how you feel about the next three/four fighters). If Steve revitalized the hype train then Sephiroth kicked it into overdrive. It's very telling that the only criticism Sephiroth gets is in relation to other characters on the roster ("WAH Another anime swordman! WAH Another FF7 character! WAH Not the Square character I wanted!)

Honestly I wished he had english voice acting and that he came after Sora so we could recreate the secret boss in KH. But neither of those are the character's fault so I won't hold it against him.
 

Golden Icarus

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
1,066
Location
USA
Min Min:ultminmin: 90%

I totally understand the criticisms, but I will always defend my girl. I didn't have all that high expectations, but I actually enjoyed ARMS. Great music, silly characters, and I always appreciate simple fighting games. When I play MK, Tekken, GG, etc. with friends, it always comes down to who knows the most about the game. But with ARMS, it takes like two minutes to figure out how it works, so all my friends would be on a pretty even playing field, which made it a really fun game at hangouts! I'm always down to see Nintendo take a chance on a new IP, so I was in full support of ARMS being in Smash. The game was pretty damn successful and an ARMS character clearly had a lot to offer from a gameplay standpoint. When it got passed up for base game, I was still holding out hope for DLC.

Now, I certainly understand the complaints regarding her moveset, but...I think it's really fun. I love when characters have weird gameplay mechanics that go against the established "rules" of Smash. We have over 80 characters, you might as well have a few weirdos. Not only is Min Min weird as hell, but she represents ARMS kinda perfectly. Dropping special moves entirely in favor of letting the player control both ARMS was a bold decision that I really like. She definitely isn't my favorite character in Ultimate, but much like Hero, I find myself using her quite a lot because she offers a gameplay experience that you can't get from anyone else. She might be a pain to play against for some, which is just one of the risks when a character is so unconventional, as many would say the same things about Ice Climbers, Olimar, Rosalina, etc. You kind of have to play Min Min's game when fighting her, which for me is kinda fun, but I understand why she gets so much hate in the competitive scene. But overall, I'm really grateful for her inclusion in Smash.
Steve:ultsteve:: 100%

In terms of gameplay, this is a pretty similar situation to Min Min. Steve's playstyle goes against the usual conventions of Smash, but represents his franchise's core gameplay really well. Again, a lot of people may not like this kind of moveset, but I find Steve to be an absolute blast. One of the main reasons I was hoping for Minecraft in Smash was to see just how the hell Sakurai would go about implementing it. Needless to say, I was pretty damn impressed. The fact that Sakurai was able to incorporate mining and crafting, while still making him work in the confines of Smash is absolutely insane to me...I will admit that he might just be the character I struggle playing against the most, but I still find my matches with him to be wildly entertaining. I could do without minecart though seriously did this dude really need a move that acts as a recovery/burst option/kill move/command grab. Carts aren't even that important in Minecraft. Donkey Kong could have used that move a lot more damn it.

Also, having Minecraft in Smash is just so cool. I didn't necessarily grow up with it and I can't say that I've played it all that much. However, one of the best parts of Smash, or rather the best part of Smash, is seeing all of these different gaming universes collide. Being able to play as Sora and fight Pikachu at Shadow Moses Island is just...wild. And Minecraft brings so much to the table in the crossover department. It represents a completely unique genre, has an artstyle completely unlike anything else in Ultimate, is one of very few Western franchises in Smash, is technically our first indie character and...it's literally the best selling game of all time and represents a generation of kids who grew up with Minecraft. Steve is like Mario or Pikachu to a lot of young gamers, so having him in Smash means the world to a lot of people. It is no surprise that this was the character to break the internet. Minecraft is a special game and having it alongside the greatest all-stars in gaming just makes sense.
Sephiroth:ultsephiroth:: 100%

Here's a change of pace. Yes, I appreciate characters who represent brand new franchises and bring playstyles unlike anything else in Smash. It's the best way to keep the roster fresh and makes every character feel worthwhile...Sephiroth doesn't really do either of those things...and yet, he is easily my absolute favorite character in Ultimate.

I don't really know where to begin. I guess I'll start by saying Seph is already my most played character in the entire game. It's actually not even close. He just does everything for me. I like characters who make me feel powerful. Sephiroth is fast, has incredible range, great kill moves and versatile specials. His side special has to be one of my favorite moves in Smash. I love the way it makes the opponent dance. His glaring weakness is that he's incredibly light and incredibly tall, which is perfectly fine as I still feel absolutely unstoppable when I play him. He's fun for me because it's easy to kill with him and he's fun for the opponent as he's easy to kill. Matches are fast and explosive.

Yeah I like to see brand new franchises as much as the next guy, but hey, FF is loaded with great character options and is the most successful third party series in Ultimate, so seeing it get another character makes sense. Yeah they could have gone with someone from FFVI, or FFXV, or someone like Black Mage or a Moogle...but those guys aren't ****ing Sephiroth. Yeah sorry but FFVII just so happens to hold one of the most beloved gaming protagonists and possibly the most beloved gaming antagonist. WeirdChillFever WeirdChillFever said it really well. Smash is more than just an IP fighter, but also a character fighter. This isn't just Sephiroth from FFVII, but rather, this is Sephiroth from being mother****ing Sephiroth.

And my god they captured Sephiroth’s character so well. There’s a certain energy that only villains can bring to Smash and they really demonstrated that with Sephiroth. Dude is intimidating as hell. He has the best win screen and victory theme in the entire game and OH YEAH he brought us the FFVII soundtrack that we didn’t get with Cloud! Seriously, those are some banger remixes, and having One Winged Angel in Smash makes me so so happy.
----------
I wanna take a moment to say that this was a fantastic start to Fighters Pass 2. Like, I really feel that these three characters accomplish so much. We got a new Nintendo IP, the best selling game of all time, and possibly the greatest villain of all time. They all have unique artstyles and all come from a completely different genre. We got some female representation, we got another villain, we got some old stuff, some new stuff, third parties, first parties, Western characters, Eastern characters. We got two gimmicks unlike anything else in Smash, along with a character who is much more conventional. Also, all three characters were surprising, yet clearly justified in their inclusion.

Looking through the satisfaction ratings, most people seem to be very pleased with at least one of these three characters. Obviously, it's impossible to please everyone, but these three were really strong picks that seemed to satisfy a great portion of people...and this was only the first half of the Fighters Pass!
 
Last edited:

YoshiandToad

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
6,507
Location
Still up Peach's dress.
:ultminmin: 45%
Min Min is largely fine. I don't particularly like or dislike her inclusion but I am deducting 5% from a 50% average due to both the ARMS guessing game and the way she did Springman dirty in the trailer. I don't particularly like Springman but I am not a fan of crapping on the fans of any character who doesn't make it, which Min Min's trailer absolutely does when he has it IN HIS HAND before she sucker punches him and takes it. Reminded me of Chrom's treatment in Sm4sh.

She's okay to play but err... she's also the last of the DLC cast my friend bought so from here on it's all just trailer reactions.

:ultsteve:: 83%
Back before Smash Ultimate's Everyone Is Here trailer dropped I did an animated moveset for Captain Toad that involved using levers to create blocks and platforms that would shoot him upwards...now I'm not saying Sakurai saw this video(coincidentally Piranha Plant also featured in it heavily making me accidentally get two characters sort of right in that moveset, but neither the one I set out for) but I felt quite justified when Steve arrived and had a very similar gimmick as I had a fair few people commented that this would be a bad set up for Smash. Based on the sheer concept of Steve I absolutely adore him and Alex. One day I may get around to picking up his DLC despite never playing Minecraft before which puts Steve easily in my top 3 DLC characters just behind Banjo and Byleth.

:ultsephiroth:: 65%
Not a JRPG guy, but even I know how big a deal Sephiroth is. Can't say he's particularly a must have for me, but him being an antagonist character adds a little spice to his inclusion...but moveset wise I wasn't enthralled by what I saw. Neat he's here and a great trailer though.
 

Ridrool64

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
1,383
Location
New Jersey
Noodles are the best, no doubt, can't deny: 0%. Min Min breaks the unspoken rule of Smash additions, they cannot make the game WORSE with their addition, and IMO Min Min failed that with flying colors. I cannot stand using her, I cannot stand fighting her. There is an actual character that sucks ass both on the giving and receiving end. I didn't care for ARMS playing it and none of the content she came with sticks out to me at all. Probably the objective worst addition in my eyes, even if the score doesn't really reflect what I think of the identity of the character. Back then her only positive was that Spirits were on the table for speculation again, but now that's not relevant and her only good factor is gone. I didn't know just how bad ARMS in Smash would really be back then, I guess...

Vote Allay or Copper Golem. Just not Glare: 95%. Now this is what I call a pick me up after the back to back Byleth to Min Min combo. The stage is great, the character is fun, and I love Minecraft. Yeah I'm a third party lover. But still Steve came at a great time. Glad that we started with the worst foot in this case.

Xbox, eating cheese, hear a bear, SMP: 75%. Sephiroth is also a great addition even if I think he came with stuff we already should have. The Sephiroth Challenge made him stand out, his implications for speculation go much deeper than Min Min's, and moreover he's just a really cool boss character. Him having the boss rush was a nice touch too.
 

2006ToyotaTacoma

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
269
Location
Aboard the Ark of Yamato
Min Min
ohohohohohoho

I'll just put it straight: Min Min is by and far my least liked DLC character imo. Hell I couldn't even give her rating a decent title!

The way they revealed her was just infuriating. We get an announcement for Smash in March and they tell us that a character from ARMS is coming. Eh, not that I really care but who is it? NOPE, WE GOTTA WAIT 3 MONTHS FOR IT. Not only that, but the paired announcement of a demo for ARMS basically meant that, in my opinion, the first FP2 character was Nintendo's attempt to revive their dead IP (and did it even work???). The first fighter for FP2 borderline killed my interest for a bit but I was hoping that maybe it'd be a character I liked, like Dr. Coyle, or Helix, or maybe even the MAX BRASS, the modern Captain Falcon! But no, it had to be one of the most vanilla characters you could pick, and also they did Spring Man f****** dirty Jesus Christ. Consider my interest in Smash dead for the next couple of months after that.

But okay, maybe the moveset could save Min Min for me. Maybe, just maybe, she'd be fun enough to break even.
.
.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Min Min, without question, is the most infuriating character to fight. Forget Banjo, or the Links, or even online Ness, Min Min takes the absolute cake. And even then she's not even fun to play as! It's just going to one end of the stage and just not engaging your opponent. No hype whatsoever, and it's pretty clear as to why the Japanese fanbase apparently despises her.

I don't even need to go over everything else. The stage, while fun, and the music, while good, don't make up for Min Min's god awful reveal and playstyle.

ARM's should've stayed base game or in the grave imo.


:ultminminSatisfaction Score: 0%, in the negatives if possible.

MINING AWAY
Alright rant's over. Time to gush about Steve.

I wasn't super into the idea of Steve in Smash Bros, despite my childhood being molded by his game. It wasn't out of dislike of his design or a certain 4chan meme, but the concept just really didn't pass my mind. That said, when he was introduced, I was BEYOND ecstatic. Felt like a trip down memory lane personally. Also while it didn't technically crash Twitter it was absolutely fun watching the whole thing go down.

Moveset wise, it's an absolute miracle that Steve actually works. The amount of effort put into this character, such as idk RECODING EVERY SINGLE STAGE, was a herculean task and one I praise Sakurai and his team for. Despite being so complex, the character is so much fun to play as and is so reflective of Minecraft's playstyle as a whole. And even for a placeholder skin he has such personality that it's hard for me to dislike him.

The Minecraft world stage is easily one of my favorite stages. Tons of references, you can break the blocks, YOU CAN CHANGE THE BIOMES! There was a ton of love put into this stage and it really shows. It may not be my favorite stage but it's definitely top 3.

While I do love the music, it hurts to not see anything from base Minecraft or C418. I know it was possibly legal troubles that led to this but it still leaves a stain on this pack imo; C418 was one of the key pillars that defined Minecraft for not just me, but for a lot of people who played it back in the early 2010's, and to me the pack simply doesn't feel complete without it.

Minecraft Steve's pack basically hits all the marks bar C418, and is easily one of my favorite characters in all of Smash.


:ultsteve:Satisfaction Score: 90%

Good to see you, Cloud
Let's be real here: NO ONE SAW SEPHIROTH COMING. Come the Game Awards everyone thought it would be someone like Crash or the funny Fortnite guy. Queue that iconic track and Galeem getting a Binging-with-Babish worthy cross section, and behold hands down the most left-field pick of the DLC imo. Not only that, but that trailer was easily one of the most epic in Smash Ultimate's lifecycle, probably even the most epic one EVER! Sephiroth came in with brilliant despair, and he follows up with it well...

His moveset, while arguably being one of the most vanilla ones of FP2 (and that's saying something), is absolutely fun. His moves are strong and satisfying to land, and hitting a shield-broken opponent with Gigaflare is just incredible. Not to mention his Final Smash, which may just be my favorite period, especially with how it differs from the normal formula with random effects.

While his stage is pretty simple and standard in layout, Northern Cave is absolutely gorgeous, especially with how it presents the end to FFVII in such great detail and with such flying colors. Definite favorite of mine.

And the music... HOLY CRAP THE MUSIC! WE FINALLY GOT MORE THAN 2 TRACKS FOR FINAL FANTASY! And they're all solid bangers! GOD IS REAL AND HE BRINGS DESPAIR, YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

The fact that the big bad of FFVII manages to correct the game's lackluster content is ironically hilarious, and Sephiroth basically hits the head on everything.

:ultsephiroth:
Satisfaction Score: 100%
 

DrifloonEmpire

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2019
Messages
1,387
Whereas Byleth was a victim of bad timing,
Trust me, there were many issues for Byleth, it wasn't purely a timing thing.


Nintendo's attempt to revive their dead IP (and did it even work???)
I would say that it didn't work at all, ARMS discussion as a franchise basically died down after her reveal, and people cared way more about who the ARMS Smash fighter would be than ARMS itself. I don't think I ever saw it on the Switch's best sellers page during that time weither, so there really weren't very many new adopters of the IP. It was probably partially an attempt to mimic Splatoon's success that didn't quite work out.
 
Last edited:

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
14,756
Location
Scotland
The way they revealed her was just infuriating. We get an announcement for Smash in March and they tell us that a character from ARMS is coming. Eh, not that I really care but who is it? NOPE, WE GOTTA WAIT 3 MONTHS FOR IT. Not only that, but the paired announcement of a demo for ARMS basically meant that, in my opinion, the first FP2 character was Nintendo's attempt to revive their dead IP (and did it even work???).
arms was the 19th best selling switch game at the time. and the game was 3 years old at the time. to call it a dead franchise it just unfair
 

DrifloonEmpire

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2019
Messages
1,387
arms was the 19th best selling switch game at the time. and the game was 3 years old at the time. to call it a dead franchise it just unfair
Most of those sales came from it being a launch title, and one that burned out VERY quickly. It sold well, yes, but it didn't have the STAYING power.
 
Last edited:

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
14,756
Location
Scotland
Most of those sales came from it being a launch title, and one that burned out VERY quickly. It sold well, yes, but it didn't have the STAYING power.
It wasn’t a launch title and people were speculating about it for ages

let’s not derail the thread if you wish to reply switch threads
 

Sid-cada

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
1,645
Nissin Noodles - 75%

Min Min's a bit of a monkey's paw for me. I wanted an ARMS character, but I wanted it to be Spring Man and Min Min's actually towards the bottom on the list of ARMS characters I care about. Still, I can be at least somewhat happy with her getting in (even if she is an annoying one to fight.)

Lego Minifig - 55%

I've warmed up to Steve over time. Before, I was very concerned with a terraforming character in Smash, fearing they would be way too annoying to fight against. While not as bad as I thought, I do view him as complicated for the sake of being complicated. Still, Minecraft is simply something I felt okay with representing.

Sans Undertale, but for Boomers - 20%

Probably my least favorite character included in this game. I didn't care for RPGs in general, let alone Final Fantasy, and I would have preferred that if there was a Final Fantasy character they would have at least gone with a SNES character like the Black Mage, or at least one from a different game. Instead, we got another character to represent what might as well be the only Final Fantasy game. I don't care for him.

If there's one more thing I can say about him, it's that he made everyone forget #FREEMELEE. That started trending only about a week before him, and after he got revealed it's like it never even existed. I may not care that much about Melee's competitive scene, but something about this just doesn't sit right with me.
 

DrifloonEmpire

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2019
Messages
1,387
It wasn’t a launch title and people were speculating about it for ages

let’s not derail the thread if you wish to reply switch threads
Well, not quite, but it came out during a time where the Switch had very few games.
But yeah, let's put this to bed here. Either way I reinforce what I said in my rating.
 
Top Bottom