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Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

zeonie888

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
96
:ultsimon:: Despite the leak I was quite surprised to see Simon and in his classic design. A classic rep for this great game. 75%

:ultrichter:: A very nice surprise! Despite me not playing any Castlevania games I have heard about him. Being a more modern rep of the genre for a series that missed out on four smash games. 75%

:ultchrom:: So he did get his time after getting a beatdown from Captain Falcon. I still find it funny that you can use Robin's final smash and has Chrom beat him himself up. 60%

:ultdarksamus:: A nice surprise getting promoted from Assist Trophy to Echo Fighter. I felt Metriod needed some more love and with Ridley being in was great first step and now this was a nice bonus. 60%

:ultkrool:: I was watching his reveal with my brother and we were both ecstatic to see this villainous croc make his return. He's my second most wanted character behind Ridley. I was a little worried before his reveal since I had played Donkey Kong Country 1 and 2. I also played the both of the Return games and not seeing the croc there I thought the croc was gone. Boy was I glad to seem him! And playing him is still great! He's goofy, crazy and heavy! I love this guy! 100%
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
60,461
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Heh. Day 666 and we do the Belmonts. What a horrible day for a rating.

Simon

95% I love CastleVania and it's very poetic we got Simon right after I started getting into the series, the trailer was excellent, we got one of my favourite looking stages, a ludicrous amount of songs that I can't really complain about (Except Lament of Innocence and Iron Blue Intentions, don't like the remixes as I think these songs work best slow) and had we not have gotten Simon in the base game, we wouldn't have had the best part of World of Light or the Dracula boss so I love this! However...

Richter

I went googoo gaga monkey brain when I saw that white stitching on blue cloth, I prefer Richter over Simon because of his 90's anime anime design and being playable in my preferred style of CastleVania, which is really funny as I had beaten Portrait of Ruin a few days before we got the Belmonts, in which Richter is both a boss fight and a playable character. I ****in cheered when Sakurai did the Hydro Storm joke in the trailer and I find myself regularly quoting his back and forth with Dracula from OG SotN when playing Smash. Also, boy hot. 100%

Dark Samus

This is a fun one to look back to, I was initially disappointed as Dark Samus could have been so much more to me, but then I realized there was no other way she was getting in and that she had wildly different animations with very unnatural movements which I ****ing adore. That being said I'm knocking off points because why the **** is there no Dark Samus theme? 70%

Chrom

I was shocked they actually went back a generation for a Fire Emblem, meaning Chrom's the first FE character since Marth to not have been lucky and you know what, we got a lot of fun, Chrom not only has a different attack all together alongside a different final smash, but he also made me retroactively soften on Roy as no Roy means no Chrom. Chrom's also legit fun to go unga with and lose all my braincells by mashing **** and helping me get all achievements in the game. 100%

K.Rool

Not gonna lie, I was legit disappointed when we saw the gameplay section, the CG was perfect but the moves looked... Dull. The predictable options but not anything I liked. Then they showed him off at the prerelease demo and that he's the ****ing Juggernaut function and holy **** I love that dumb ****. Really made me turn around on his gameplay to the point I'm convinced they added it late in development. 60%


Also, I think we shouldn't have to rush this if the intention is to catch up when Sora releases on the 18/19th depending on timezone. In fact, if we rate Sora a few days after he's out, we'd have all tried him out at that point so we can have more proper opinions
 

Phoenix Douchebag

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 19, 2020
Messages
1,044
Location
ZE BATH
This, this my time.

Simon Belmont: The Face and the greatest hero of Castlevania.

Let me tell you a story. When i was a kid, i watched the AVGN a lot, it was one of my favorite things to see on the Web, and one day he reviewed the Castlevania series, among them he praised a little SNES game called Super Castlevania 4. I remember playing it before and while i liked it, i was a kid with the attention span of a goldfish, so that memory was erased. I decided to replay it after James's video on the game, and..................i fell in love.

Sometimes people talk about why i chose Simon, and why he is my favorite CV character when there are others like Alucard. Super Castlevania 4 is why, he is the hero of that game, that game is my favorite Castlevania game, my favorite SNES game and one of my favorite games of all time.

I see Simon Belmont as this epic hero who takes a no-nonsense approach, no witty one-liners, no getting beat up by random pedestrians on a Pub (AHEM NETFLIXVANIA SUCKS ASS AHEM) with a barbarian old-school asethetic, instead of the weird designs he would get later. I find his story ironic yet epic at the same time, as he basically didn't knew how he would compare to his ancestors, yet nowadays he is seen as the face of the Belmont family. Also i do have to mention that while SCIV is the reason i am so fond of Simon, Sharp X68000 is best Simon, no ifs and buts.



Anyway, as you can tell, i was already big into Castlevania by that time. Games that i played include CV1, CV3 (2 i would play much later, you can thank its reception for that) SCIV, Rondo of Blood, it's inferior SNES port, Circle of the Moon, Harmony of Dissonance, Aria of Sorrow, The Gameboy Games (the 1st one sucked so much i couldn't even bother finishing it, but the sequel was actually pretty good) and of course the overexposed SotN, which despite not me considering it the pinnacle of CV, it does live up to the hype.

As you can see, i consider myself a CV fan. I loved the music, i loved learning about the lore, i played basically every major 2D release (the only ones i unfortunately could not pick up are the DS games, a shame since i would love to play Dawn of Sorrow seeing how much i loved its predecessor) and even played some fangames. That "Castlevania Fighter" was far better than Judgement ever could be, it even included Castlevania 4 Simon with all his powers! too bad it got discontinued.

To put into perspective how much i loved Super Castlevania 4, i own 3 copies of this game. I have never even bothered to buy the Switch Ports of MK8, Tropical Freeze and Pikmin 3 despite me loving these games, yet i had no issue getting this game again TWICE. Then again, SCIV came bundled with the SNES Classic and CV Collection, so that's why i own 3 copies.

So you can guess that by 2013, after Mega Man was revealed (probably my favorite Gaming Character, period) i was in the Simon Train without stopping. Not only was Simon my favorite CV character, but i fully believed he was the only choice for Castlevania, he appeared in more CV games than any other, he was chosen in to be CV's ambassador in mutliple Konami Crossovers (it wasn't Alucard who went toe to toe with Optimus Prime, let me tell ya) and he was even technically relevant due to his appearance in Lords of Shadow: Mirror of Fate, so he checked all boxes.

However he had an uphill battle for him. Back in 2013/14 Smash was a veeery different envioroment compared to today. First Parties were the true stars, and guest characters were rare, and outside of Pac-Man, most of them were seen as unlikely or even impossible. Characters like Sora, Cloud, Kazuya, Steve were not even a blip on the radar, guests could only be in if they were very close to Nintendo or prominent on Nintendo consoles. Nowadays im actually starting to miss this era as i am not a fan of the "Smash is about gaming history" phase, but as someone who wanted Simon this definitely made it harder for him. Probably the biggest blow to him was Snake, as back then the 1 character per company fan-rule was seen as gospel. If you thought that people would consider Sephiroth, think again.

While Simon was not even talked about back in the day, i was a huge Simon Belmont supporter. I made multiple drawings on my textbooks sketching up Simon and how he would look like in Smash. His moves, his profile in the character page, his trophy (R.I.P Trophies) and so on. I even sketched up a Trailer for him that him saving Luigi. The fact that no one cared about him outside of Arcadenik Arcadenik and a few others, made me only MORE passionate, my Asperger fascination kicked in. I knew Simon wasn't gonna make it into Smash 4, so when stuff like ESRB happened, i wasn't crying for him (I was more worried for Mewtwo)

But one gleam of light came into the darkness. As the LoS series came to a close and CV was seen as a dead franchise due to what happened with Konami after the Kojima incident, one hope came into the scene. In April 1st (yes really) Iwata revealed the Smash Ballot. Of course, i was gonna vote for Simon (and also other characters via other devices) and after Ryu's reveal, now the 1-rep per company was gone, and therefore Snake was no longer a threat. Simon may have not come to Smash 4 but i knew things could only get better for him.

After the disappointing Smash 4 finale and Bayo destroying the Competitive scene, Smash Ultimate was teased. I knew it was gonna be a new game (SUCK IT Portmongers) but i didn't knew who was gonna be in it outside of Inkling. During this time, Vergeben, the infamous SCVI (Soul Calibur 6, not Super Castlevania 6) leaker came into the scene and said Simon and Ridley were playable. You can guess that while i was a skeptic, i wanted it to be true, so much.

A few arguments, an E3 reveal for Ridley and an overrated cartoon later.

Simon was now a big deal. Back in 2017 and early 2018 Simon was barely noticed, but now he was the centerpiece. Smash Ultimate's development started in 2015, right after the Ballot ended and only a few years after Mirror of Fate, Simon's latest appearance. Snake came back so Konami was back on the table, Bomberman was confirmed as an AT and while that sucked it meant Simon had no competition from his own owner company, and Vergeben gained more credibility thanks to Ridley's reveal plus other stuff he leaked.

Some people may argue that leaks and rumors killed the Simon hype of being this super unexpected hype character, but i disagree. I loved Smash speculation. Yes it could get stupid, pretentious, weird, grasping at straws and desperate at times, making it feel like a war was happening, but it was fun. My fondest teenage memories came from the Pic of the Day from Smash 4, and as someone who is too shy to talk to real people most of the time, having a platform to discuss one of my favorite things in gaming was great. Now my most wanted dream character was seen as not only possible, but LIKELY, that had me giddy, and you can bet your high horse i was enjoying every single moment. I even became the owner of the Simon for Smash Ultimate thread, which you can see here. I was THAT passionate about Simon.

So, i think it's pretty likely you know what happened next, right before the August Direct came in, another leak happened................it was Bloody Tears (and Monster Dance)

This was it, Simon was coming in. I remember looking at the trailer that very same morning. I saw the rain, and i saw his boot, i recognized that Boot, of THAT design of Simon, this was it.

and then, it happened.




After 5 years of dreaming, the dream became a reality. and it was great. He was EXACTLY how i pictured him. His Cross as Side Special, his Holy Water as his Down Special, his Super Castlevania 4 Whip moves as his repertoire of Smashes and Aerials, Grand Cross as his final Smash, and most important of all, that old-school macho look. Bleach Blonde hair, brown and beige armor, square jaw, gruff voice and muscular look. Yeah he look like Conan, and i love it (even if i.............never had watched or read Conan in my life) and to this day i prefer it to the werid, akward and honestly off-looking Chronicles look. Ayami Kojima is a talented artist, her Alucard redesign is amazing, and i like her depictions of Trevor and Richter, but i never liked her take on Simon. The bishonen face, the weird leather clothing, and most of all the color usage of Red and Black (usually reserved for Anti-Heroes or villains or those with Darkness alignment, and since Simon was always this Holy Warrior Hero, the color scheme was always why i disliked Chronicles's new look for Simon, especially when the original version of Chronicles for the Sharp X68000 i mentioned earlier, was my ideal look for Simon)

Sometimes i feel the only reason people remember Chronicles is because of that weird redesign, because otherwise people always talk about SCIV and CV1/2 when it comes to Simon's tales, so for me the choice was clear, especially because after the mid-2000s, Konami once again was using the Barbarian Look for Simon after realizing the Kojima look wasn't as popular as expected (the earliest instance of this was with that NECA figurine). Thankfully, i predicted with Sakurai's fondness of CV1 and with Pac-Man's old look, Sakurai was gonna chose wisely, and i was right. The only thing that was off was Richter's moves, but then a again a Belmont echo never crossed my mind.

After so much speculating, discussion and fanboying, i was vindicated. Simon was in, and while everyone was hyped for K.Rool, Dark Samus, Chrom and Richter, Simon was finally a personal dream and story coming to a close.

Yeah, there were some problems, like Simon was reviled on launch due to his projectile game, which is no longer the case as it is understood Simon is a scrub-killer, even if being demonized for beign a Simon main (well, Richter main mostly) sucked, and the fact that his own theme song wasn't remixed (while Richter's was) also sucked, but Simon in Smash was a dream for me. I could play as much Simon as i wanted. and i will always be thankful for Sakurai and his Development team for that. To this day, Simon is the most played character in Smash that i have ever used, and no one comes close.

Thank You. If you wanna read more, you can read this, from my original (now deleted account) Tord the Red Leader.

So yeah.

SATISFACTION 100%


I just wanna say to TCT~Phantom TCT~Phantom if he can hold this day for a few more hours than intented. I spent way too much to time talking about Simon that i have no more energy for the rest, and i have Online Classes in just a few more minutes, so if its not too much to ask, plase wait a little longer until i get my K.Rool essay done.
 
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Strider_Bond00J

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
2,863
Location
la-lio~n~
Switch FC
SW-2525-8699-9095
:ultsimon: "What a horrible night to have a curse... ...and be Luigi" - Simon Belmont is great. It's easy to forget about him, but there's no doubt that Simon Belmont was a very popular and iconic character who was well-deserving a place in Smash Bros alongside fellow Konami bro Snake. There was very little doubt about him joining the fight. He's got the classic retro feel to him, and his moveset is pretty faithful for Castlevania, albeit as time goes on he's quite spam-friendly. But when you consider the things he's been fighting for so long and frustrating Medusa heads, best to spam when they keep flying at you.
Satisfaction: 85%

:ultrichter: "Begone! You don't belong in this world, monster!" What an amazing surprise. Not just Simon, but RICHTER BELMONT - 2 Castlevania characters, and one of the most popular and iconic Belmonts at that for his famous exchange with Dracula in Symphony of the Night. A truly pleasant surprise and a very welcome addition; where Simon is the He-Man/Conan the Barbarian of the Belmonts, Richter is like the Joseph Joestar with Luck and Pluck by his side. Perhaps changing his Final Smash to Hydro Storm or having different properties on his specials would have been nice, but Richter is a very welcome addition. Satisfaction: 90%

:ultchrom: He finally gets his chance! Chrom is another pleasant surprise, especially when he was humiliated so much in the Smash 4 saga. Being an Echo for Roy is quite fitting since I always imagined Chrom as being sort of the middle road between Marth and Ike, so he's a welcome addition if you ask me. (not you Corrin, very few people still like your style) Seeing Chrom finally get a chance in the spotlight in Smash again is great after so much humiliation from Smash 4 and he was still one of the most requested characters, so him being an Echo is fine. Satisfaction: 80%

:ultdarksamus:: HELL YES. This was an amazing glow up, and Dark Samus has the amazing honour of boosting Metroid not just to three but FOUR characters now. Of course it's a little disappointing that some of Dark Samus' Assist Trophy attacks weren't implemented into the transition as an Echo to make her a bit more interesting and she's lacking her iconic laugh and leitmotif, but Dark Samus is a great addition. Satisfaction: 100%

:ultkrool: HOLY CRAP KING K. ROOL. I may have departed from and had mixed feelings to King K. Rool and the Kremling Krew after the whole debacle that was the end of Smash 4, but seeing King K. Rool in action was amazing. He actually came back after so long and pretty much had all the aspects of his previous games as everyone thought - the Crown Toss, the Blunderbuss and the helicopter pack. Not to mention the amazing remixes for both Gangplank Galleon and Crocodile Cacophony. It really was his finest hour, and truly a legendary way to cap off that amazing direct. Satisfaction: 90%
 

BowserKing

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
1,000
Location
winnipeg
Simon and Richter: 90%.
Their trailer is quite fun, and they are quite fun to play as. Also their music is amoung the best, especially Bloody Tears/Monster Dance, that soundtrack is my jam. It also shows that Konami is not going away this time. They are fun either way.
Chrome and Dark Samus: 90%. I’m surprised that Chrom is a Roy Echo, and I find him quite fun to play as. I’m glad he gets his chance to smash. Dark Samus is also very fun and more villains are a great choice. Dark Samus is worth having in smash.
King K.Rool: 100%.
The Kremlin King has returned after 10 years and he is worth playing in smash. His moveset is quite fun, as with his recovery. His trailer is epic and humorous and overall, King K.Rool is one of my newcomer mains in Ultimate
 

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
Premium
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
19,041
NNID
RieSonomura
Switch FC
SW-4976-7649-4666
Hey fitting as how it’s day 666 cuz Castlevania is a game about hunting demonic creatures

anyway

Chrom: 100%. Wanted him to get his chance since the Robin & Lucina trailer in 4. And now he did. He’s an Echo, but he’s still in so

Dark Samus: 69% nice. The fact she (they?) hovers is cool, but her moves could have referenced Phazon more. Also SHE DIDN’T COME WITH HER THEME SONG.

Simon and Richter: 90%. Konami’s back in full swing after bringing Snake back. CV also has the second largest track selection, tied with Tekken and eclipsed only by the SNK track collection. I only wish Richter had a different final smash than Simon, maybe Hydro Storm. Trailer was one of the best too

King K. Rool: 95%. Not much of a fan of the character myself, but super happy for his fans. The remix slaps too 👌
 

MasterCheef

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 7, 2021
Messages
284
King K.Rool: 100%.
The Kremlin King has returned after 10 years and he is worth playing in smash. His moveset is quite fun, as with his recovery. His trailer is epic and humorous and overall, King K.Rool is one of my newcomer mains in Ultimate
.
same.
 

Depressed Gengar

Hana Is Best Girl
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
4,883
Location
The Johto Region
3DS FC
2922-0445-5244
Oh boy, it's the day of the funniest number. In October. Unfortunately not on a Friday the 13th though, so no maximum spookiness or whatever. Shame.

Simon:
Not one I wanted or anything, but he was fun to mess with on the occasion. That, and he was from a third party franchise with genuine prestige, being literally one of the grandfathers of gaming, so him being picked was respectable anyways. Really not much to say here, honestly.

Simon satisfaction: 65%

Richter and Dark Samus:
Grouping these two together because they both suffer from the Daisy issue from my last post: they have nothing to truly separate them from their source character. Lucina and Chrom lack tippers, Ken might as well not even be called an echo and just be called a standard clone, but these two have basically nothing. No point in just making them more than actual alts to spend even less time on them.

It's especially lame that Dark Samus ended up being an echo, because Dark Samus as an echo just leaves out all the cool stuff Dark Samus can do. Obviously that wasn't an option, but Dark Samus just isn't Dark Samus when they're only "Samus but no rolling up in a ball for dodges". It just doesn't do Dark Samus justice.

Richter and Dark Samus satisfaction: 0%

Chrom:
Oh boy, this one's... interesting. On one hand, Chrom's an echo with enough going for him that he actually has a justification being more than an alt. He's actually got substantial yet still minor differences from his base. On the other hand (hoo boy, this topic, this will totally go well), he's another Fire Emblem character, and he just further added to the issue of how samey a good chunk of the FE characters are on top of that. I wish FE had a smaller but more diverse lineup. I really do.

Chrom satisfaction: 5%

King K. Rool:
Man. I didn't actually watch that Direct live, but my lord I wish I did. My number one most wanted, and one who was just overdue at this point, finally got in. Finally, both Ridley and K. Rool were in. They should've been base game newcomers for Smash For, but whatever, they're here now. And lord is K. Rool one of the most fun characters to play in SSB history. They even gave him one of the best trailers. Admittedly, said trailer got a teeny tiny little bit tainted because of it basically being reused again when it just didn't work the second time, but eh. The only thing I have an issue I have with K. Rool is the fact that his Krownerang doesn't for sure return to him like other boomerangs, but that's a small as hell nitpick.

K. Rool getting in was the best thing to happen to Ultimate, with Ridley being the only thing that comes close.

King K. Rool satisfaction: 100%
 

Golden Icarus

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
1,066
Location
USA
Ah yes, the August 8th direct. The day Smash Ultimate went from a 10/10 to an 11/10.

Belmonts:ultsimon::ultrichter:: 95%

Loved this reveal. Bummer that the Verge leaks spoiled the surprise a bit, as it would have been much more exciting if it caught me off guard. At least the bonus reveal of Richter was a bit of a shock. But despite the lack of surprise, the Belmonts were still superb additions. I love my retro characters, so it's really cool that they pulled most of their moveset from the classic games, from the iconic whip attacks, to the Belmont strut. I do wish that Richter was a bit more unique, but I get what they were going for by having them borrow influence from each other. Still, making Richter's holy water move forward, or maybe changing one of his projectiles to the knife would have been cool. All of these minor gripes hardly take away from how great these additions were. Castlevania is rad as hell. Also, it's one of the most well repped third party franchises in Smash with a really great stage, a Dracula boss fight, the Alucard assist, and some of the best music in the game. Great stuff.

Chrom:ultchrom:: 60%

This was...good, just not all that exciting. I'm a huge Awakening fan, it's easily my favorite FE game, so it's satisfying to have all three of the main characters in Smash. However, I was already feeling Fire Emblem fatigue after Corrin's reveal, so this didn't really excite me. Plus, this addition has only aged worse over time, given that this still wouldn't be the last we'd see of FE in Ultimate. With all of the different echo possibilities, Chrom definitely wasn't at the top of my list.

But he is fun! Marth has always had a great moveset, so while having four variations of it might be excessive, I don't mind all that much. Chrom has just enough differences from his counterparts to justify picking him, and I honestly might enjoy him a bit more than Roy. Gameplay-wise, this is one of the best echoes in Ultimate.


Dark Samus:ultdarksamus:: 80%

Probably second to Ken as my favorite echo in the game. I was already so grateful that we got Ridley, so getting Dark Samus on top of that made me so damn happy. And this has to be one of the coolest echoes in Ultimate. Dark Samus's animations are so incredibly distinct and give off an entirely different vibe from Samus. I certainly wish that there were more gameplay differences, as again, just one or two key differences can go a long way. Right now, she's still kind of an alt costune. But whatever, I'm glad she's here.

King K. Rool:ultkrool:: 100%

No complaints here! A character that was added solely for the fans. K. Rool has been one of the biggest Smash requests for the past three games, and I'm always down to see more fan favorites added. On top of that - they nailed it. The reveal was perfect and the theme song remix is so good my god it's way better than I could have asked form and his moveset is pretty much exactly what I hoped it would be. He's not a character I play often, but rather, one that I'm just so happy to see.
 
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YoshiandToad

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
6,507
Location
Still up Peach's dress.
:ultsimon::ultrichter:: 70%
I like Simon enough, but wasn't a huge Castlevania fan to the point I didn't even recognise Richter. Now his exchange with Dracula is burnt into my soul. Good third party picks, no complaints, trailer was one of the best.

:ultchrom:: 100%
I can't believe it, but between Sm4sh and Ultimate I'd given Awakening a second chance, and Chrom ended up easily being my favourite character from the series, replacing Robin whom I'd previously cheered for getting over Chrom. This was a nice little treat, and although it's hip to hate on Fire Emblem content I can't deny he was the newcomer I had the most fun with. Not brilliantly designed, but very fun.

:ultdarksamus:: 60%
I will never touch Dark Samus due to not getting on with Samus' moveset and a general disinterest in Metroid, but can't deny it was nice to see those starved Metroid fans get a second character in a manner of a few weeks after years of nothing.

:ultkrool:: 80%
I didn't really have much of a stake in K. Rool as a character, but he ended up being the most fun unique newcomer for me on the base game. Much like Ridley I'm at least glad he's here after everyone requested him for years.
 

DrifloonEmpire

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2019
Messages
1,387
The Belmonts

Satisfaction: 90% -
While I have little experience with the games themselves, Castlevania's a great third party with a lot of Nintendo history, so they were perfect for the spot! Richter was also an awesome surprise, and really made good use of the differences an echo could provide! I actually do have a unique bit of history with Castlevania as a whole, through music and other stuff, actually. About 10 years ago I used to be a part of the Super Mario World ROMhacking community, and alongside developing a hack myself (which I sadly never finished) I played a TON of hacks! One of which, a series of hacks actually, being the Luigi's Adventure hacks, a Luigi-centric series made by Japanese hacker Anikiti. From playing them I could tell he was a HUGE Castlevania fan. He used Castlevania music in many of his levels and even had Castlevania-inspired world castles, a personal favorite being the Tower of Dolls. These hacks introduced me to a TON of great Castlevania music, most of which would make it into Smash, which honestly felt incredible. And the icing on the cake (even if I didn't exactly like what happened to him) was Luigi himself being used in the Belmonts' trailer, exploring Dracula's castle! Honestly, it felt like a cosmic nod to this unique bit of history I had with the franchise, and that alone made me more than happy to see the Belmonts in Smash!


Chrom

Satisfaction: 30% -
Was feeling Fire Emblem fatigue, still am. Still, I wasn't as critical on him as I would be with Corrin or Byleth, he already had a ton of assets done so I understood that he was a quick and easy fan request to fill. Still, the fact they went all out on Fire Emblem (again) when all Daisy got was a single idle pose (then again she could've been made earlier when echoes were still being experimented on, who knows) does leave a sour taste in my mouth. Awakening also didn't need three reps, so if it weren't for Everyone is Here, I wouldn't added him instead of Lucina (or made her a Marth alt).



Dark Samus

Satisfaction: 70% -
Not my first choice of an assist to promote but definitely a welcome one! Metroid definitely needed the love, especially to make up for 4 games of Samus riding Solo. Dark Samus is a great echo that makes enough moveset changes to justify the echo slot, and a fun way to change up Samus' gameplay. Not much else to say here, great choice!



King K. Rool

Satidfaction: 100% -
The man of the hour! One of my most wanted prior to Ultimate's release, everything about him and his reveal was perfect! His moveset has a lot of inspiration and character from all three original DKC games, and the epic Gangplank Galleon remix was icing on the cake! During high school I went through a DKC phase and really developed a liking for K Rool as a villain during that time, so seeing him appear in a game for the first time since Mario Super Sluggers in 2008 felt fantastic. After he was revealed I remember making tons of great jokes and dialogue for him with some friends, we all had a great time with it. And he was the second in a parade of big fan requests being answered, he really carried the momentum that Ridley had started, and I can't thank Sakurai enough for his inclusion! Especially since he's way more popular in the west than east.

My only gripe (even if it's absolutely impossible) is the lack of his glorious voice from the TV show! XD
 
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Sari

Smash Master
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
4,347
Location
New Jersey
NNID
Villager49
Switch FC
SW-2215-0173-2152
:ultsimon::ultrichter:
Satisfaction: 85% (for both)
Castlevania in Smash is something that just made so much sense. In fact, it made SO much sense that the Smash website accidentally leaked it beforehand because of the incorrect music title the night before the reveal. None of that really mattered though because these two characters brought an amazing series into the foray as well as some fun gameplay to boot. Both characters are a blast to use and are definitely deserving of having a place in Smash.

My only real gripe for both of them is that they are too similar to each other, though I guess they sort of get a pass (at least when it comes to them getting the same score) since they both borrow moves from each other. Still though, the less similar two characters are, the better.

:ultchrom:
Satisfaction: 95%
I did not care much for Chrom when he was first revealed: I didn't play much of Awakening at the time and when it came to additional FE characters, I was mainly hoping for Celica as a Robin echo (yeah it didn't make much sense but let me dream). But wow did I quickly grow to love this character. Gameplay-wise, he's just so fun to use as he's basically Roy but without any of the downsides (though without the strong hilt attack upsides either).

He's also one of the best examples of what I think an echo should be like: be similar to their main counterpart but have enough differences so they aren't just a glorified costume. Having a neutral sword instead of being stronger when closer to the hilt is such a small change from Roy, and yet it changes Chrom completely. Having an up-B similar to Ike's is also a very welcomed addition since it changes his recovery game a lot.

Easily my favorite echo in the game and one of my favorite characters for Ultimate in general.


:ultdarksamus:
Satisfaction: 50%
I've never been much into the Metroid series, nor am I really a fan of Samus' moveset. So this resulted in a solid "oh nice!" moment when she was revealed and nothing more for the rest of Ultimate.

I'm alright with characters appearing as echos if there is no other feasible way for them to get in, but at the same time I would really prefer if they still have a feasible amount of differences from their main counterpart. Sadly, Dark Samus isn't that much better than Daisy when it comes to differences. This hurts a lot since from what I understand, Dark Samus has even more unique moveset potential than Daisy did.

:ultkrool:
Satisfaction: 90%
I've always loved the DK games but I was never much of a K. Rool fan. Dixie Kong has always been my go-to character when it came to wanting another rep from the game, so seeing K. Rool get revealed was exciting since he was such a big request but afterwards I didn't feel much about him.

But then I actually tried him out and wow he is just so fun to use. His kit is so stupid and wacky that it fits him perfectly. Even though I never cared about him too much over the years, I think it's safe to say that he definitely lived up to the hype.
 

Phoenix Douchebag

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Well it's time for rest.

BLUE SIMON.

Richter is a peculiar case. While i do enjoy Rondo of Blood, i never see it as a superior game to SCIV. The game's mechanics are still based on the NES trilogy, meaning that all the frustrations that those game suffer are present in Rondo of Blood as well, and no amount of pretty graphics and fancy music really changes it. SCIV was great because i could enjoy the best of Castlevania without the worst aspects of it, meanwhile Rondo still feels a little archaic in comparison, this is evident when you decide to play the game as Ricther and not Maria (the game's easy mode) don't even get me started on Dracula X, which feels like its a regression in everything SCIV did when it comes to level design and controls.

SotN is great as i mentioned, but Alucard is the games' protagonist, not Richter who at best suffers from Dedede syndrome and started the trend of unlockable characters in CV games. Still, he was the prominent Belmont after Trevor and Simon, and agruably the most popular of the 3. Yet every single time a CV rep was talked for Smash, Simon was the only choice so i'm not surprised he was chosen as the the grand reveal character while Richter was the echo.

and yeah, Richter being a glorified alt kinda sucks, as Richter, while playing like Simon and every Belmont in his home game, had some unique moves that could separate him from Simon, but i guess both sharing those abilites were more of a beneift here.

I mean at least you could have added Dracula X sound effects to his hit sounds, him using 8-bit sounds is off.

60% Satisfaction


50% Satisfaction.

I don't have a lot to say here. I like Metroid, but never played the Prime games, and seeing them doesn't make me want to if im honest, but its cool Sakurai put the other requested Metroid character that had merit and wasn't requested because the fandom desperately wanted another Metroid character (cough SYLUX Cough) i guess i could complain that Dark Samus doesn't have any of her cool Attacks from her Smash 4 Assist Trophy, but honestly Ridley was the one that mattered to me, DS is just a bonus.

Guys I'm running out of Blue shades, help.

Chrom is weird. I didn' want him in Smash 4, i was more of a Roy guy, yet by the time Smash Ultimate rolled around, i was okay with him. Yes, he is another ****ing Fire Emblem character from a franchise that is honestly SUPER SATURATED, yes he is another Marth Clone, and yes for some reason he as actually more unique than Richter and Daisy, but im still okay with him, because in hindsight, the Chrom bullying was disgusting.

I do not like the culture of mocking characters and their fanbases when they don't become playable. It's one thing to mock fans that don't like the latest reveal like Sora, but to go out do what happened to Chrom was insulting. Vidri and Palutena can go **** themselves for that stupid Codec joke, and Robin's trailer was hard to look at due to that last scene. I don't want to sound like im in a soapbox, i was guilty of this when i was a teenager too, and i got a taste of my own medicine when Mewtwo missed out on the base game, never again.

So to see Chrom fans get vindicated was great. Sometiems you have to understand that other people deserve to have the time in the limelight too. It's weird to think im more positive towards the 4th Marth Clone and 3rd Awekening newcomer than i am of the unique and brand new FE rep, but we will talk about that......................eventually. Also being a Roy main means i can switch between these 2 and that's neat

60% Satisfaction.


and now, the big one:
(K.Rool Kutthroat initiation trial song)

King K. Rool was a huge deal. I played the DKC trilogy back when i was a wee lad, and while i still feel i have not played enough of the franchise (to this day i never beat DKC3, i must really fix that) i still love the DKC games, but i must admit even if DKC TP is my favorite of the franchise, i miss the Kremlings. They had that silly cartoony charm that no other DK villain outside of the snowmads have. King K.Rool is a character that while a Nintendo owned one, feels unique in his own right thanks to being created by Rare.

I could have made a 1000 word essay in why K.Rool is so awesome, but unlike Simon, i don't feel the need to express my passion for the Kroc as i think his vocal fanbase speaks for itself. K.Rool is awesome, the DKC series is awesome, and yet the somehow this frachise is always left on the dust, mostly because it can't never shake the "Lol is a Mario Spin-off" mantra that has suffered since the 2000s.

While Sora was the winner of the Ballot, K.Rool's kampaign was like no other, and the most vocal. so much so that when K.Rool was confirmed the fans (myself included) made a Thank You Letter to Sakurai.

You can see my name as "B.K" which are the initials of my real Name.



His reaveal, while admitedly not as cool as Simon, was pretty funny, and the Gangplank Galleon remix is STILL the best Smash Remix.

It also helps that K.Rool is the second most played Newcomer in my matches after Simon. Chrom, DS and Rich don't come even close. I love heavyweights in Smash, TierWhores be damned. I love how simplistic his moveset is. One thing i hate about most post-Brawl newcomers is how they tend to have weird gimmicks that ruin the simplicity Smash is meant to have. Ryu's pressure sensitive button, Sephiroth and Joker's comeback mechanics (as if Rage wasn't enough) Kazuya's..................everything.

So to see a character who is as straightfoward as K.Rool is a godsend. Well, except for the whole Belly thing, and while im happy K.Rool's gold plate is armor again instead of being literally part of his skin, i don't think giving him a counter was a good idea, that's like Fire Emblem Joke punchline, not a K.Rool move.

Still, K.Rool is still the best reveal to me. Sora and Steve and Banjo were great, but i don't think any of those reveals have the same impact K.Rool had to me and many others. Great Reveal, great character, great Final Smash, nothing much to say Here.

Satisfaction 100%
 
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Opossum

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Just dropping in to give my Chrom satisfaction rating, as per usual.

To put it simply, Chrom is straight up my favorite video game character. Fire Emblem Awakening was my first Fire Emblem game, and Chrom was the first Lord I interacted with outside of Smash. The game got me interested in Fire Emblem, and now it's one of my favorite franchises of all time, and Chrom is still my number one favorite character.

So when Smash 4 rolled around and not only was Chrom passed over for both Robin and Lucina, but also became the butt of a neverending series of jokes due to the reveal trailer...it was really Not Fun, to say the least. And as far as I was concerned, he'd missed his one chance, due to the nature of Fire Emblem's rotating cast.

When the ballot came out, I campaigned for Chrom pretty hard. Even in real life, I got a few of my college friends to submit votes for him. I knew it likely wouldn't amount to much, but it was at least a show of interest.

And then Ultimate rolled around and I knew better than to expect him. It just felt impossible. But then E3 happened and...echo fighters were introduced. And Ike lost his Chrom color. And Robin mysteriously didn't have their Final Smash showcased.

I didn't want to hope. I had come to terms with Chrom's situation. I had closure. I didn't want to be inevitably disappointed. But dammit, part of me wanted to get pulled in.

And then, August 8th, 2018. And this happened.
Screenshot_20210531-105319.png

God, the cheering I did. I even teared up. It was the one time a Smash reveal did that to me. I was absolutely thrilled, and when the game released, Chrom was so fun to play, too! It's funny because like, I honestly think the moveset and playstyle they gave him fits him more than it does Roy, the character he's echoing, due to how different Smash!Roy is from Canon!Roy lol.

Chrom was finally in Smash, and to me? His reveal meant two things. One, that yes, Anything Can Change. And two, that, indeed, Everyone is Here.

Satisfaction Rating: 100%
 
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Sid-cada

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Belmont - 80%

Simon wasn't exactly a character that I wanted, but to me he fits in just fine. He's one of those third parties that fit in with Nintendo like a glove, so honestly it was kinda inevitable that he got in. His move set and implementation just make sense.

The "Cooler" Belmont - 45%

Eh... I'm not the type of person to use Alternate Colors, usually. I'm the sort of guy who prefers to play Jr. over the Koopalings. I'd at least prefer Echos to have some notable changes to justify the chance, and Richter just doesn't have that.

Chrom - 45%

Having played Awakening and being bored with it enough to drop it before finishing it, I found Chrom a very uninteresting character. As I once said, Stahl was a more interesting character to me. While he meets the baseline of what I want out of a clone, and understand that people want him, I'm docking points for Fire Emblem really feeling saturated and personal distaste for him.

Dark Samus - 50%

While her gameplay differences may seem minimal, I at least appreciate how much work went into animator her differently. Given how starved Metroid was in characters and the effort given, I'll at least give her a neutral vote.

The other Ridley - 90%

The other character that was closest to most wanted that got in. Honestly, much of Ridley could be repeated for K. Rool. He was from a franchise that I didn't play until after I got into speculation, and got me to try out Tropical Freeze. I enjoy him, even though my connection to him wasn't as strong, and am glad for his fans who have speculated so long.
 

SneakyLink

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What a horrible night to have a leak
Simon (and Richter): 85%

I had a vague idea on who Simon was thanks to AVGN and Richter through Symphony of the Night. After the presentation I got a NES Classic and played through most of Castlevania. I can say that Simon is very faithful, especially in the specials department. The issue is Richter, who really only has one major gameplay change. But since they were developed side by side, it's understandable.

He finally got his chance!
Chrom: 70%

Of all the echo fighters, Chrom is the one I was ecstatic to see. That said, I am pleased for Chrom fans, and his moveset showcases why he worked best as a Marth with a different Up B and Final Smash (the Final Smash especially, being my personal favorite of the Awakening crew).

Instead of some joke, I'm going to remind everyone to grab the Metroid Dread spirits this weekend... despite the character having nothing to do with Dread (note: I haven't played Metroid Dread)
Dark Samus: 50%

Dark Samus certainly looks fierce and her win screens show why she is the Phazon. My biggest problem is after remembering the assist trophy, Dark Samus feels... lessened by being a echo. The assist trophy did all sorts of things, yet as a echo Dark Samus loses some of the cool things she did as a assist.

Shoutout to the Smash 4 King K. Rool thread for playing One of Us from the DKC Cartoon whenever a new supporter showed up
King K. Rool: 100%

The Crocodile King was one of my most wanted characters since the Smash 4 days and he arrived with fierceness and cool references. As a bonus, his expressions are over the top and demonstrate that even villains have slapstick moments.
 

Ridrool64

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Die, monster, on this horrible night: 80% for both. While my personal preferences lie with Richter, the one from the games I care more about and the one who wasn't leaked and was pretty much never brought up as a possibility, I still think Simon as well was a good addition overall. They're a bit weak for competitive play but I like campier characters (as in, characters who have campy playstyles, not characters with campy personalities. Although that might not be mutually exclusive...). I'll excuse Richter on being a copy paste since he came as a package deal with Simon whereas Daisy and Dark Samus have no excuse.

Finally getting a chance: 65%. I don't remember caring too much outside of the meme potential, and while 7 Fire Emblem characters was much at the time even pre-Byleth, I'd blame Corrin first and Chrom second. But did we need a fourth Marth?

Not in her Prime: 20%. I don't really see why Dark Samus had to have its potential ignored. Like, we got Ridley so we weren't hurting for Metroid content and while DS is the last newcomer I have a bone to pick with, if they had to go the Samus Echo angle the SA-X was right there (and if THAT looks too similar, put Samus in her Power Suit or the Fusion Suit). Dark Samus is an even bigger case of wasted potential than Daisy and is little more than a cherry on top post Ridley. But I don't hate her.

Could it be, I have what I've wanted?: 100%. If there was any character I wanted most in Smash 4, it was K. Rool (possibly behind Paper Mario but I don't remember). While he got trumped by Arle during prerelease, K. Rool remained one of my most wanted first parties and lo and behold! He's a glorious inclusion! There was this one leak claiming K. Rool would be an Assist Trophy at the time and I didn't know if it was a hoax so him being the light at the end of the 8/8 tunnel was great. Sure he's not the most viable but who cares! He's great to see anyway.
 

Phoenix Douchebag

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No idea, but I don't get the absolute adoration for Viridi as a character. She's yet another member of the same smug b**** archetype that Sothis is.
People like obnoxious female characters like because they think being a jerk means a female has personality i guess (to be fair, this is becoming more of a unisex problem with characters in general, where beign a insuferable jackass is seen as a good personality trait, see Netflix Trevor Belmont and Sypha).

Characters like that piss me off, it's why Rita is my least favorite character from Tales of Vesperia.
 
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Sari

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Day over.

We are now going to be giving our satisfaction ratings for the rest of the pre-FP1 characters. So give scores for Isabelle, Ken, Incineroar, and Piranha Plant. Once this day ends, we'll be doing some ratings for Ultimate's other modes/features (World of Light, Spirits, and Smash Online) before moving onto the FP1 characters.

If you still want to get your Belmonts/Chrom/Dark Samus/K. Rool satisfaction scores in, you have until 12 am Monday in EST (rest of today).

Megadoomer Megadoomer
 

fogbadge

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how much is that shi tzu in the window?
100% i cannot stand it when people say a character "deserves" to be in smash but if there was ever a character who did it was izzy. one of the most popular characters in one of the nintendos best selling series that is exactly the sort of character who should be in smash. issabelle's a great character with a fun moveset she was a great choice. AC should have had more characters and she was a natural choice. of course if series got numbers based on their success SC would out do FE and metroid. sorry i just get a bit tired of explaining why shes here.

the digimon emperor! what? oh that ken....
0% out of all the SF characters he is the most dull. and sakurai made it sound like he got in just cause hes the earliest echo fighter which isnt a great reason. i just sort of glaze over when he comes up.

bad kitty
0% the lamest gen 7 pokemon. one of my best friends loves fire types and cats and was so stoked when litten was revealed but was so dissapointed with his last form, and i can see why. his design is so bad. he was so underwhelming in pokemon let alone smash. and sakurai wanted him for the arch type he is not the character he is and for some reason no other wrestler character will do. this is best shown by the fact that he stands up all the time when in the games he spends plenty of time on all fours. a minor thing to complain about but so long as people go on and on about sakurai having an eye for detail i will hold this over them. a boring character with a boring moveset.

feed me, feed me now!
10% his moveset is fun ill give him that. his inclusion was more confusing than anything else and the closet ive been to actually being surprised at characters inclusion for a very long time. but again more confused than surprised. now sakurai did give several reasons as to why PP was put in and when you look it them it does sound like he wanted to include a mario enemy. a curious idea but not a dreadful i just think there are other enemies who would have been even more fun. also hes not toad
 

DrifloonEmpire

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Isabelle

Satisfaction: 60% -
I'm honestly torn on Isabelle. On one hand, I was super excited to see Animal Crossing get another rep in an already great direct (KATAMARI HYPE), and the segue of her trailer into Tom Nook announcing the next game was incredible! And I'm sure she made a lot of fans happy, too! On the other hand, her moveset is mostly completely copied from Villager (though she probably would've been an echo if it weren't for some animation issues) so she doesn't bring much to the table. And second, I personally thought Tom Nook would've been the best choice as the second rep. No doubt Isabelle cemented herself as a series staple by that point (it had been 6 years since New Leaf) but Tom Nook's been a significant character since the beginning and personally think he would've been the better choice. Still, happy she's here and here's hoping for a bright future for the franchise!



Ken

Satisfaction: 60% -
I don't have much experience with Ken in his games, but he was easily a no-brainer echo. He has differences that make him feel distinct from Ryu while also not straying too far from him either. He's the perfect echo! Not much else to say, Ken was a good pick!



Incineroar

Satisfaction: 90% -
I know he's controversial, but I have to say, I was happy to see Incineroar! He was the starter I played through Sun and Moon with so I was always fond of him, ESPECIALLY because of the anime. It's no secret that I absolutely adore the Sun and Moon series of the anime, and there Incineroar plays a prominent role, both as the signature Pokemon for Kukui's Masked Royal persona, but also as a sort of mentor and goal to surpass for Ash's Litten. Great stuff!Plus the wrestler archtype is such a cool thing for Smash to try! I only have two small issues with him. First was that I think he could've added a LITTLE more Fire/Pokemon Moves into his moverset, but that's just a minor nitpick. And second would be his lack of a stage. It's implied that Sakurai based Incineroar off of concept art so he may not have had access to environmental assets, but Alola has so many great locales that it's a shame he didn't get a stage! Still, either way, I great choice in my eyes and a fun way to represent Sun and Moon! ENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNJOY!



Piranha Plant

Satisfaction: 95% - What can I say? I love this guy! His animations and moves are both super-inspired and crazy-expressive! Sakurai really got creative with what he could do, and pulled from so many different sources for piranha plant types (even some obscure ones!) for a very varied and interesting moveset! Plus more Mario reps are always welcome! I'd say my only gripe is that we got him as a fighter before Toad or Waluigi, but by then they had already been deconfirmed, which definitely took off some of the sting!
 

Noipoi

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Isabelle satisfaction: 60%

She’s cute as a button and I’m glad she’s here, but good lord does her moveset not mesh with me.

Ken satisfaction: 50%

I have no strong opinions one way or the other.

Incineroar satisfaction: 100%

Unpopular opinion, I know. But Incineroar was my starter in gen 7, and one of my favorite Pokémon period, so I love this. His moveset matches up perfectly with my preferred playstyle (except for his trash recovery) and I love how they went all in on the wrestler theme. He’s got some of the most fun animations in the game. I love this dude!

Piranha Plant satisfaction: 70%

Plant is funny as hell and plays pretty fun too. Good stuff.
 

Depressed Gengar

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Welp, with Ridley and K. Rool (and even Inkling) out of the way, my ratings are going to be consistently fairly low.

Isabelle:
Honestly, this is the most "just there" non-echo inclusion within the base game. Isabelle isn't the definitive mascot of Animal Crossing her fans absolutely insist she is, at best sharing the title of an AC mascot with Tom Nook, but she's far from irrelevant either. She's a justifiable inclusion but not one that absolutely had to be in. She's not one I personally care for either way either. Eh.

Isabelle satisfaction: 50%

Ken:
He's a fairly unique echo, but he's still stuck with the copy-pasted, 1-to-1 SF mechanics, which just don't translate well in SSB. Otherwise, he's just there.

Ken satisfaction: 30%

Incineroar:
Inceineroar was easily one of the better Gen 7 Pokemon that could've been added, if not then the best one they could've picked, but I've grown to be a lot more apathetic towards Incineroar than back when Gen 7 was very new. Also not a fan of those side and down specials, they're just awkward for several reasons. At least the obligatory Gen 7 rep wasn't boring Decidueye though, so that's a plus I guess.

Incineroar satisfaction: 20%

Piranha Plant:
Wow, how wacky! Something that literally no one expected got into SSB! That totally hasn't been done before, and definitely not several times over!

Except it has.

SSB has always had characters who's biggest thing about at the time of their debuts was just that they were extremely far out of left field, regardless of whether that was the intention for their inclusion or not. And honestly, too many. I'm not saying every pick ever has to be obvious, but when super out of left field picks have basically just become a new part of the norm, to the point that everyone expects at least one, usually more, super out of left field picks in every game, it starts to become at least a little tiring. This within itself isn't a deal breaker or anything, but it still makes the "no one expected this!!!" picks a lot less special. Oh well, most of those out of left field picks have more going for them. Captain Falcon pretty much got outright defined as who he is by SSB, Mr. Game & Watch became a weird and interesting entity thanks to all the things SSB did with him (keeping his 2D body and his choppy movements, Subspace Emissary adding the "Shadow Bugs" lore to him) and Wii Fit Trainer remains funny past the initial "unpredictable" shock due to being a freaking fitness instructor who attacks with all sorts of yoga poses.

Except Piranha Plant doesn't have that kind of stuff going for them either. Piranha Plant's not a funny little weirdo like WFT nor are they just a cool or weird concept, all they had going for them is that initial shock factor. Which lasted for an extremely short period of time. Honestly, if we really had to have a generic Mario enemy as a playable fighter, it should've been a Goomba. Way more iconic and important, still can pull from all the variations of Goombas throughout the years like Piranha Plant, and would be much funnier. Beating people up with THE basic, week mook of gaming, who's just a puny, armless, and pathetic mushroom would be genuinely hilarious, even after the initial shock.

Piranha Plant satisfaction: 0%
 

BowserKing

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Isabelle: 100%. I was surprised that Isabelle is not a Villager Echo, and honestly, it’s better that way. Isabelle is definitely fun to play as and she is in my top 20 mains. She’s also very cute. Overall, Isabelle is worth having in smash.
Ken: 80%. Ken was heavily expected since he is one of the earliest moveset clones. But he is fun to play as regardless. Also his theme is very great. Overall, Ken is a great Smash Bros fighter.
Incineroar: 100%. Of all the Gen 7 Pokémon and fire types, Incineroar is my main fav, so I was hype to see Incineroar be in Smash. Incineroar is very fun to play as, and is in fact my Ultimate Newcomer Main (But my Smash Main will always be Bowser). Also since I have Incineroar in Pokémon Shield (due to me choosing Scorbunny as a starter), and Incineroar in fun in Shield as well. Overall, Incineroar is worth having in smash.
Piranha Plant: 100%. I did not expect Piranha Plant to appear in this game. But Piranha Plant is totally fun to play as. It is also the DLC fighter that is in my top 20 mains. Overall, Piranha Plant is worth it in Smash and is a fun surprise.
 

White Frost

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Simon: 100%. I like Captain N. That is all.
Richter: 99%. Mostly cause he'd have been more interesting if having slightly different moves besides one.
Chrom: 100%. Only missing character from Awakening to me. Didn't help he was done dirty by Viridi and Captain Falcon beforehand. If it wasn't for that, it wouldn't have been such a big deal.
Dark Samus: 60%. Would've been better if she had at least a unique move or two besides being only electricity.
Isabelle: 99%. Mostly cause her trailer felt like it could've been a bit more "actiony". But her character alone is great, as they hit every note of hers. It was pretty much semi-clone or unique anyway(I instantly understood Echoes and how much they need to be the same bodyshape, so... she was an obvious non-Echo to me).
Ken: 90%. Pretty sweet character, despite the "Echo" label feeling odd(but he still makes sense towards it overall). Mostly being leaked beforehand made him less hype to see.
Incineroar: 70%. Very cool character, but overall he wasn't my favorite choice for Gen VII.
Piranha Plant: 100%. Freaking awesome, and had a really fun moveset. It being the first DLC character made it very nice for me to get for free, saving me a bit of money. Also a great choice for a bonus overall.

(Dang, I didn't get a chance to rate Ridley etc.)
 
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TCT~Phantom

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I gave a 12 hour window for these rerates and I will abuse it now.

Simon :ultsimon: 100% Satisafaction

Simon set the bar so high in terms of what to expect from a third party rep. Once Snake came back and Verge seemed right, Simon was one of the easiest things to call in speculation period. Simon even got leaked the day before the direct, which did make him less hype than he should have been. But damn, he was great. An awesome reveal trailer full of love to Castlevania. Design wise, everything was perfect for Simon and Richter. I was so stoked to see us get them that day and they still are cool now. I have all the base game newcomers I really loved as amiibos save for them, which I will poach at some point.

I am not the biggest fan of Castlevania, but I have been growing into it even before Ultimate. I loved Rondo and SotN, I loved the Netflix series, and I have been wishing to try out more of the GBA and DS games. I love however how much love went into Castlevania in Smash. The music selection is goated. The stage is great albeit a bit too dark. A boss fight and an echo. It felt like everything a Castlevania fan could want outside of a playable Alucard was here to see.

Simon is kinda hard for me to play but I have a lot of fun with him. Yeah the recovery is bad but the feeling of controlling space with the Vampire Killer is great. While he is not exactly my cup of tea, I do love playing as him from time to time, which is what really matters.
Richter :ultrichter: 80% Satisfaction

I am a massive fan of Rondo of Blood and Symphony of the Night, so seeing Richter in Smash was a treat. I loved that we got one of my favorite Belmonts as an echo of Simon. I just wish that we got more of an actual difference between Simon and Richter. Outside of their holy water having minimally different properties, the two characters are the same. I just wish with how much love Ken got, we got a Richter that had a little more love too. Seeing him in smash was a delight and a treat, I just wish he got a better deal as an echo.
Chrom :ultchrom: 100% Satisfaction

This is how to do an echo right. Chrom having a different Up Special and lacking a sweetspot changes the character so much. Chrom feels like the risk reward that Roy has was shifted. Chrom has a lack of a sweetspot and that does make it so he has a more consistently deadly advantage state without Roy's peaks and valleys. But Chrom also has risk moved towards recovery, which is a neat tradeoff. I would say this is gameplay wise a gold standard to look towards for Echos.

Also, Chrom getting his chance another day was great. I loathed the idea of getting Chrom in Smash 4, but that was because I was a Robin stan. I wanted Awakening to get the best rep it could and one that would not feel too similar to Marth or Ike. With us getting Lucina as an echo as well, it felt weird that Chrom missed the boat. Seeing Chrom in smash was a treat, as it made it feel like everyone was here. Chrom was one of those characters that just narrowly missed the boat, and now he had a shot again. I dont know how to explain it, I just was happy.

Dark Samus 80% Satisfaction

I owned the Dark Samus support thread, and let me tell you, we were on the verge of greatness. Dark Samus has so many unique animations and is such a cool pick. I love how she looks, and honestly I love playing as Ultimate Samus. But looks are not everything, I need some gameplay differences. While Dark Samus has some things I like more like a better roll and jumps that feel better to me I guess, she is still Samus at the end of the day. When echos like Lucina, Chrom, Ken, and to a lesser extent Dark Pit exist, I will be a little sad we didn't get a more distinct Dark Samus. Visually, Dark Samus is amazing, and is one of my favorite animated characters in Smash. I love what they did with her and how floaty she looks. But I wish we got something more in terms of differences.

King K Rool 100% Satisfaction

What a perfect way to end the 8/8 Direct, by showing off one of if not the biggest fan requests in a long time. For starters, we get one of the best reveals for smash ever. With the way the loud thuds appear, you know something is coming at the end. And then, you see all these villains and rivals. What could this be? Then DK opens his dumb mouth, and you get hyped. The Kremling Kommander is koming. Then, you get one last little fake out, and the croc finally joins smash. This trailer was so good, they literally repurposed it for Banjo almost a year later. While I do not think it landed the same way twice without the same setup, it shows how much they knew this trailer would please fans.

K Rool is one of the best animated and most fun characters in this game. I love DKC, especially the SNES games. DKC2 is one of my favorite games on the SNES. I love how K Rool is this insane goofball with a hint of deranged bloodlust. The fact he cackles when he goes for his big headbutt is one great example. The way he has a sadistic smile when he forward tilts for instance or breaks your spine is a great example too. While he is not exactly the most competitive fighter, I love playing him. He is so fun to mess around with friends with. I love doing fun suction kills, I love his spikes, I love down smashing on my friends. He is just such a blast to play. Sakurai did K Rool so much justice.

Also, the 8/8 direct holds a special place in my heart. I had to leave an internship I was at at the time due to some family stuff, so i was not exactly in high spirits. As a result, seeing K Rool, one of my most wanted, made me so happy. I was so hype to see that some huge requests I had like K Rool and Ridley made it in, there would be no cuts, and we even got some characters I was super hype for like Chrom Belmonts and Dark Samus. It felt like there was nothing Smash Ultimate could do wrong now...

Isabelle :ultisabelle: 0% Satisfaction

Hoo boy. Ultimate, especially in hindsight, has had a damn solid roster. Even picks I disliked like Incineroar and Byleth grew on me. But there were two that did not. Plant my hype for died down as I will discuss lower, but as time went on I grew to loathe Isabelle in Smash.

Part of the issue is the same issue with Inkling: I am not an Animal Crossing fan. I get the appeal of the series, but it just is not for me, I do not like slice of life sim sort of games like it or Stardew Valley. Obviously, they have their fans, but I am not one of them.

Isabelle being a clone of Villager does not help. I do not have clones on principle, and I get why they chose Isabelle. They wanted to do a smaller, easier character to do that would not take as much time and effort. If she was fun, I would be fine with it since I liked Smash 4 Villager a lot. The problem is, Isabelle is not fun. She is a trapper that does not have the tools to make her traps actually work. She feels like a watered down, flavorless Villager. You could have done a unique moveset for a second Animal Crossing rep, either with terraforming or by using more materials from Animal Crossing. Isabelle does not, she borrows so heavily from Villager that she does not manage to show off anything more interesting from Animal Crossing. If Wolf is the perfect example of how to do this kind of lower effort character right, Isabelle is the perfect example of how to do it wrong. She feels so hollow and boring, with not enough to make her stand on her own. Now, if Isabelle was an echo, this would likely not have been as harsh. I have different expectations for echos. The problem is she is not an echo. She is her own unique newcomer, and she does not have enough meat on the bones to be interesting.

What also sealed her fate is how much other people like her. Everytime I see an Isabelle smash pic about how she is le wholesome doggo I roll my eyes. I hate how the Smash community loves her so much when I think she is arguably the addition that feels the most soulless and hollow out of any addition. At least last minute clones like Dark Pit or Echos at least do not feel like they took a prime time spot. Isabelle is a boring clone that for some reason everyone game a pass. She is the worst newcomer in this game, and I would make a strong argument she is the worst in this Smash 4-Ultimate Cycle. I like Corrin more.

Also she has the worst Smash reveal trailer ever. I did not like watching 2+ minutes of le wholesome doggo before learning she was an awful clone of villager.

Ken :ultken: 100% Satisfaction

Like I said, echos are judged on a curve, and Ken breaks it. When Ken manages to be a more interesting and mechanically different fighter than Isabelle, you know either they did Ken really really well or Isabelle poorly. Well, its both. Ken has just enough flair to make himself known. He looks great, better than any modern appearance of the character. I honestly think this and Chrom should be the gold standard for echos going forward, a unique twist that makes the character different enough to separate from their base fighter, but with clear inspiration. Amazing job.
Incineroar :ultincineroar: 65% Satisfaction

Well, time has helped the kitty cat. I like how Incineroar does attempt to avoid some of the superheavy traditional weaknesses. Through Revenge, Zoners are less of an issue. I also like how he is a full fledged grappler. Smash has not leaned too far into the grappler archetype, with really only DK fitting the role of a traditional grappler before. While grabs were important to a character's kit, it was clear no one was explicitly designed with grabs in mind (chaingrabs) to be the core of their kit. Incineroar as a result occupies a nice spot of design space all to his own. He feels to me like a better version of Ganon, with all the same strengths and weaknesses.

The issues I have with the cat still are around. Him being a slow superheavy means that playing him can be an absolute chore. The bigger issue though is that I do think that Incineroar was not the best pick for a Gen 7 pokemon. I would still have preferred Decidueye, Lycanroc Dusk, or Mimikyu at the end of the day. Compared to say Greninja, Incineroar feels like a much more dated pick, one that similar to Corrin feels like they got in less due to what they offered moveset wise or representation wise and more because of timing. I don't hate him as much as when Ultimate was launching, but I would be lying if I would not replace him with someone else.

Also Incineroar is a riot in the Wooden Plank comics, which likely added a few percent onto him at the end of the day.

Piranha Plant :ultpiranha: 20% Satisfaction

Look, in concept, I get what Plant was going for. WTF characters can be a lot of fun. I love Wii Fit, ROB, Game and Watch, and Duck Hunt. I love that we can't just get everything right in speculation. So when I saw plant, I was taken aback but I was interested to say the least. If they stuck the landing and made a well designed joke/wtf character, I would not dislike Plant.

The issue is when this does not pan out. Plant to me feels unfinished in a way that no other character does in Ultimate. It feels like so many of Plant's moves just dont work. Down B is awkward. Up Tilt, Up Air, Forward Air, Back Air, you name it. This character legit feels like they are unpolished, far more than anyone else in the game. In terms of moves that feel good, you have up Smash, up throw, Ptooie, and... that's kinda it. Bowser Jr was a character that felt similarly unpolished in Smash 4, and it hampered my enjoyment of him a lot. Nothing on plant feels right to me.

Now, the fact Plant is a wtf pick kind of works against it in a way that Duck Hunt or ROB did not have to deal with. Plant feels like a half baked character that does not feel finished. It feels like they were working on fumes with the character and it did not get enough time in the oven. Now, Plant feels much much more like a wasted slot, because you get that nagging feeling that if they did choose someone else, it would have turned out better. I don't like having to feel like if they chose even a first party I did not like, such as Dee, they could have done a better job.
 

Phoenix Douchebag

Smash Lord
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Messages
1,044
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ZE BATH
OH FOR **** SAKE, FINALLY.

............sort of. It's no surprise to many that after that August Direct, Smash Ultimate hype was at an all time high, that Direct set up expectations, that no pre-DLC reveal could hold up to. So for here on out, no character in my ratings goes to 100%, it's all downhill from here on out. Doesn't mean the next characters are all bad no no no, in retrospect im actually mostly OK with the choices Sak made (at least Base game, DLC makes me feel complicated) but it's hard to top my most wanted character of all time. But a lot of these choices give me time to reflect.

Japan's favorite, depression Cuteness!

So Isabelle, this one is tough to explain. I was never against Isabelle, i just never cared for Animal Crossing since im more of an action guy, stuff like life simulations are as interesting to me as getting a vasectomy. I agree that Isabelle was an obvious choice after how much she was pushed. MK8, Home Designer, TONS of merchandise, you bet Japan loves their kawaii stuff.

The only real argument towards Isabelle was if she was going to be an Echo or Semi-Clone like Lucas or even a full-on unique character. She never was characterized as a fighter and so you would have to make stuff up or do a very abstract concept like Terraforming in order to make her a unique character...............or you could just pull **** from Villager's moveset, they went with mostly the latter.

That is the thing that bothers me. Isabelle feels like the ONE character that was chosen, but Sakurai didn't seem to have a clear vision for her moveset. Like yeah, she has her own moveset, but they feel like leftover ideas for Villager, than something that Isabelle would do herself. I get that she has a different build than Villie but she feels off. Still, a good inclusion and was fun enough to play as sometimes, if only because of her Fishing Rod.

60% Satisfaction

Did you guys know that Ken isn't a natural Blonde?

Ken is honestly kinda disappointing in hindsight. Don't get me wrong, when it comes to Echo Fighters, HE had to be in. Its a no brainer, he WAS the original Fighting Clone of games (well, there's the Karate Champ duo but who cares), he was an obvious pick. Whenever Ryu goes Ken follows, his Fire Attacks make him similar yet distinct enough from Ryu to make him feel fresh, and Ken is all around a pretty popular SF character, and the token "I suck at games so im gonna pick him to compensate" choice, i can attest because im one of those people in SF.

I do enjoy SF casually, and i am a shoto *****, i suck too much at Charge characters to care and i still have PTSD from the bloody Zangief fights, plus i can't do 360 circles to save my life. So Ken is my default choice...........that is when i get to play Street Fighter, which isn't too often...............ALSO THE CPU IN SF2 CHEATS.

In retrospect, Ken is probably the only Echo that i would like to play as, as i prefer him as both as a character and fighter over Ryu....................so why i am not super excited?

Well, since he is an Echo of Ken (yet somehow Dr. Mario is not considered an echo of Mario despite being more similar than Ken is to Ryu is only not using the Echo label because he has different Weight Values............................seriously) it also means he takes on Ryu's mechanics, namely the whole "you gotta press or hold the button for a different normal move" which KILLED all my interest to play as Ryu, i just can't get the gist of it, and i prefer my Smash characters like KH's intro, Simple and Clean. It's one thing to do command imputs, i have no problem doing shoto inputs, but having to worry if pressed too hard the button when doing a down tilt is not something that makes me wanna play a character. Sorry Ken.


In hindsight, i wish i could replace Ken with the OTHER super obvious Echo character, Shadow. Look, i know i may be crying over spilled milk and water under the bridge, but im still kinda sad Shadow didn't make it, he was such an obvious choice for Smash's Echo list, was already prominent as an Assist, is the second most popular Sonic character in general, and he easily could have been a Semi-Clone like Ken is, using most of Sonic's moveset while adding his Chaos Powers like a Chaos Control Teleport and some of his Sonic Battle moves for his forward smash, i even would have been okay if he was a Chrom-Tier Echo, as i do like Sonic's playstyle in Smash enough to double dip with Shadow

I think im only speaking of Shadow because it kinda dissapoints me that not a single Echo Fighter ended up being my preference. Granted, i would rather have Simon, K.Rool and Ridley so i'm spoiled rotten, but still.

30% Satisfaction.


Simon Belmont's Ancestor, Christopher Belmont meeting Incineroar's ancestor, Tony the Tiger circa 1993 colorized.



Another character who i have mixed feelings about. I like Incineroar, he was my favorite of the 3 starters in Sun and Moon, even if i would have FAR preferred if he evolved into a Quadrupedal Fire Tiger. I'm sorry but when it comes to Pokémon not named Mewtwo, i far prefer Quadrupedal or Beast-like Pokémon over anthro designs.

Also the thing with Pokémon is that there are too many choices, it feels pointless to root for 1 Pokémon out of every 100 they introduce each Generation, and as such i never felt interested enough to root for anyone not named Mewtwo, who i have a huge attachment towards. How big?

When Mewtwo was announced in Smash 4, i stood in my knees and said to my sister "IT'S THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST!". I mean i know that sounds offensive, we all know Mewtwo is bigger than Jesus AND the Beatles at the same time but i digress.

I had my personal choice for Smash Ultimate's token Pokémon, Midday Lycanroc. A quadrupedal Wolf with Earth-bending powers, which sounds like a far more interesting idea to me than what Incineroar could be and ended up being, the Token Heavyweight Pro-Westler like Zangief.

That's another thing that bothers me. Incineroar feels..........boring. Yes i know i whine about complex characters like Steve but that is because i don't like worrying about stuff like resources in Smash's matches. Incineroar's problem isn't that he doesn't have a gimmick attached to him, but that Inci is a Wrestler first and a Fire Pokémon second, and out of the 2, i find the latter would have been a better option. It also comes to my attention that he is the heavyweight i play the least, which is saying something seeing how Smash is the only FG where i do Heavyweights on a regular, which says something.

I really feel like Inci was chosen as the Token Pokémon because it was a good excuse for Sakurai to include a Wrestler. Essentially the opposite of Isabelle: Concept first, character second, and i don't like that philosophy at all.

In general, even if i wouldn't have gotten Lycanroc, i would have preferred a Quadrupedal Pokémon in general over Incineroar, at least.

Satisfaction: 50%

But any of these 3 are Sora-tier or Banjo-tier choses compared to the ****show below. I'm not gonna sugar coat it, and i am NOT gonna mince words.


The most disappointing Smash reveal of all time.

It's been 2 years, close to 3 years even. We have gotten Banjo, Terry, Dragon Quest's hero and even ****ing Sora. I have changed my views and become kinder to character i originally hated (Byleth) and ended up enjoying characters i never played before (Zelda) and even with these new years of experience and as a wiser person with job experience and a 800 hours poured into Ultimate, my favorite Smash game and top 5 favorite Switch game, i still can safely say........................That Piranha Plant is the worst choice in Smash history, the most boring and uninteresing character in Ultimate's roster, and stupidest reveal of all time, the lamest DLC choice you could ever have, and a waste of development time, resources, and as the good old saying goes....................a waste of slot. Yeah, i went there.

Okay enough of my salty hyperbole. I do still believe that PP is the worst out of Ultimate's choices. Depressed Gengar Depressed Gengar summed up part of my issues with the character. It feels like a character only made because Sakurai really, really, really wanted another token "lol so unpexected" character choice like past installments. No matter what he says, i honestly do not believe any other reason Sakurai chose this character aside from this alone.

Now, you could argue he only is here because ever since Super Mario Kart, each Mario Spin-Off has gotten a Token Mario enemy in its roster, from Koopa to Goomba to goddamn Dry Bones in many titles, and that would be a decent argument for him and other Mario enemy reps...............if it wasn't by the fact that Sakurai LOVES to add characters like these because they are so "unexpected".

Wii Fit Trainer, Mr. Game and Watch and R.O.B all were the unexpected characters of previous installments, their additions can be summed up "lol i'll be cool though, how will people react".

Here's a big difference though. Most of these characters came from either obscure pieces of history or characters that were outside of the Smash fanbase's preferences like Wii Fit, they bring new universes and their history with them, like G&W's stage and Wii Fit's music. PP is just a random enemy from Mario with no major following, yes he is recognizable, but nowhere as much as Goomba and Koopa, and any content he could bring like stages and music could easily be brought by other Mario characters that are far more popular and prominent.

Also the moveset blows, but what i am supposed to expect?

Another issue is how he was revealed. I don't blame Sakurai for the Grinch Fiasco, and i'm okay with Inci and Ken. But even then, the timing of his reveal was God Awful. Right after decomfirming Isaac and Shadow, two highly popular characters and basically ending the Base Game Roster, he decides to announce the first DLC character and it's this piece of ****. I could think that maybe Sakurai didn't see the reaction coming..................but then you remember how he went out of his way to decomfirm Bomberman, Waluigi, Takamaru and Lyn right out the gate at E3, probably to soften the blow they weren't playable, so no, he knew what he was doing.

It's like if you comfirmed Sora as a Mii Costume and right after announced a Metroid at October 5th. What makes things worse is Ultimate itself, this game, more than any, focuses HEAVILY on its characters unlike other ones like Brawl with its single player story mode and Smash 4 with its customization, so to add a character like this feels like pissing on a fountain. Everyone is Here, we have the likes of KH and DQ and MC in this roster, and you think putting a random-ass Enemy from Mario is a good idea? No.

All this is a dumb joke that wasn't even funny the second it got revealed, even making Little Shop of Horrors or Bowser's Kingdom references DOESN'T make me tolerate this character.


I could make joke about how i would prefer 50 different characters over this piece of junk. but you know that you hate a character when even having your most wanted of all time make it in (Simon, K.Rool, Ridley) and still hate it. Waluigi and Toad could be in Ultimate's Roster and it wouldn't make me hate PP any less. Worst reveal, worst newcomer, worst Smash thing period. Until Non-Gaming characters make it into Smash, this will always be in my opinion, the worst Smash reveal of all time.

...................But on the bright side, at least he makes up for a Good Punching Bag.

0% Satisfaction.
 
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Golden Icarus

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
1,066
Location
USA
Isabelle :ultisabelle: : 85%

Adding Isabelle was definitely a good call. Animal Crossing is huge, and more than deserving of a second character. Plus, Isabelle is honestly the face of the series, more so than Villager. Having her among Nintendo’s all-stars feels right.

But I must admit that she isn’t all that exciting. Her announcement was pretty underwhelming considering how predictable her inclusion was, and even after Ultimate came out, I played her significantly less than the other newcomers. Obviously, that’s mostly due to her being a semi-clone, as I had already played my fair share of Villager in Smash 4. And...I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing? Like, I really don't mind semi-clones. In fact, that's pretty much exactly how I wanted to see Isabelle included, as she likely took way less time than the other newcomers, but still has way more to offer than an echo fighter. I like that! And I'm glad that she incorporates AC staples like the fishing rod.

I guess I'm kinda torn. I'm still gonna give her a high score as she was more than deserving of her inclusion and I like to see semi-clones like her every once in a while. She was a smart inclusion, even though she didn't do much for me in the gameplay department.

Also yes, Tom Nook, the best character in the series, was robbed yet again, but I don't hold that against Isabelle. Actually, unpopular opinion: If I could go back in time and add Tom to Smash 4 instead of Villager, I would. Tom Nook and Isabelle are way better faces for the series in my opinion.

Ken:ultken:: 100%

Pretty much the ideal echo. Again, it's kinda hard to judge echoes, but as far as I'm concerned this is the gold standard. Ken has historically echoed Ryu, so his status in Ultimate is completely accurate to his character. The best part is that he has way more differences than your average echo fighter. Plenty of Smash attacks, tilts, aerials, specials, etc. have been altered to make him feel just different enough from Ryu. Not much to say, just a really well done echo fighter.

Incineroar:ultincineroar:: 35%

Not a fan. The moment Litten's final form was unveiled, I was really annoyed. Incineroar embodies all of the same problems as the other Fire/Fighting starters, only he's not Fire/Fighting, which doesn't really make things better as he definitely should be given his design. I don't like how almost every fire starter begins as a quadrupedal creature, yet always ends up as bipedal brawler. I swear their is so much fanart out there of alternative Tepig and Litten evolutions that are just so much cooler than what we got. I know this is a petty gripe, but it really frustrates me, and Incineroar always reminds of this bizarre trend.

And like, I just didn't want another Pokémon in Smash. It was clear that Ultimate would only have a handful of base game newcomers and with iconic characters (Isabelle, Inkling) and fan favorites (K. Rool, Ridley) I was really hoping that Sakurai would opt against the blatant promotional picks. Obviously that's a naïve thing to think, but I really was hoping that we could just skip Gen 7 as Pokémon wasn't really in need of more characters, especially when you consider that we already had three returning characters added to Ultimate with Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Pichu. I get that it's one of the biggest franchises in the world, but eh, I would have been happy to see it set aside for once.

And of all Pokemon, we got Incineroar, who is just not at all what I would have hoped for. I already discussed how I don't really care for his design, but we already had a fully-evolved fire starter. I just couldn't get excited about this addition. I will say that he's...pretty fun. Not the most creative character, nor the most intricate, but he is really expressive and has a quirky playstyle. Revenge is a cool mechanic and I like his command grab. He's clearly supposed to be this game's grappler, taking a lot of influence from Zangief. It's neat, but nothing special in my opinion. He has slowly grown on me, but he continues to stick out like a sore thumb next to Ultimate's damn near perfect newcomer lineup.

Piranha Plant:ultpiranha:: 90%

Kind of ironic considering all of the complaints I had with Incineroar: from a series with plenty of characters, wasn't a huge fan request/"Nintendo all-star", moveset is unique, but definitely not game changing. On top of that, Toad and Waluigi are both among my most wanted characters, so I could easily hate Piranha Plant for "stealing" their slot. However...I ****ing love the damn thing!

"The Sakurai surprise" is one of the best parts of every Smash game, and I really wasn't expected to get something like this in Ultimate. After the likes of G&W and R.O.B., people tried really hard to predict who the next "wtf character" would be. Other obscure characters from Nintendo's history like Sukapon Sheriff, Duck Hunt, etc. were all brought up, only for Sakurai to shock us with Wii Fit Trainer - a character who genuinely holds significance in Nintendo history, but wasn't the retro character everyone was expected, making her a complete surprise. For Ultimate, people tried a bit harder with their predictions with characters like Monita, Labo Man, and a ****ing Virtual Boy, only for Sakurai to once again go in a direction that no one was anticipating.

Adding a "generic Mario enemy" may not live up to characters like Wii Fit and G&W who have genuine importance in Nintendo history, but I really don't care. Plant's still iconic as hell and there's just a certain magic to being surprised by Sakurai once again. I really didn't think he was gonna add another random weirdo, but I'm so glad he did. The reactions to Plant were so fun. Also, Plant has got to be one of the most well animated characters in the game. I'm amazed at how well they were able to implement a potted plant into a fighting game. The thing is so fun to play and I'll never get sick of seeing it fight all of these gaming all-stars. The fact that there is generic enemy in Smash is already funny, but the fact that it's a potted plant makes it all the more charming and hilarious.
 

Sari

Smash Master
Writing Team
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4,347
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New Jersey
NNID
Villager49
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Since Goodgrief is no longer here, I'm going to be posting some satisfaction calcs for the now completed days. Here are the first batch:

Everyone is Here
Satisfaction: 90.28%

EIH now has the fourth highest satisfaction score for a confirmed character/concept as of this writing. The frontrunners right now are Ridley's 2018 satisfaction score (91.21%), Sephiroth's initial 2020 satisfaction score (91.53%), and K. Rool's 2018 satisfaction score (94.82%).

As expected, this concept was almost universally loved. Main issues with this were some people preferring that we get brand new characters in place of vets, as well as the general concept of EIH messing things up for future Smash titles.

It's worth noting that no one gave this anything below a 50%, so every character coming back to Smash was something that was hard to truly hate.


:ultinkling: Inkling
Satisfaction:
79.71%

Previous satisfaction score in June 2018 was an 88.06%. It seems the initial hype has worn off by just a bit, but in general Inkling is still a well-liked inclusion.


:ultdaisy: Daisy
Satisfaction: 46.56%

Daisy's original satisfaction score was 69.30%. Keep in mind that this was right after the June 2018 Direct where she was revealed, as well as before we all had our hands on the game so we could see just how little differences she had from Peach. Needless to say, Daisy's satisfaction score took a big hit since pre-base game as it dropped by more than 20%. The general consensus was that Daisy failed as an echo for being way too similar to Peach and that people generally forgot she was even on the roster.

Also as of this writing, Daisy now has the lowest satisfaction score for a confirmed character/concept in all of Ultimate. The previous character record holder was Incineroar whose first satisfaction rating (not the one we're doing now) was 51.12%, while Daisy scored just under Spirits which originally got a 46.67%. This is all subject to change of course, especially since we have a lot more characters/concepts to rerate. Still though, Daisy being under a 50% is a sign that her inclusion could've been handled much better.


:ultridley: Ridley
Satisfaction:
87.78%

Previous satisfaction score was 91.21%, which like the others was also right after the reveal.

Not much to say here. Seems Ridley was a great and amazing character for Smash even after all of these years.
 
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DanganZilla5

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
1,720
Isabelle - 70%

This is another series that I just don't care about and honestly when Isabelle was first revealed I was quite underwhelmed because I was expecting someone cooler like Isaac or Shadow. But as time went on she grew on me. I'm not big on her moveset but I like to play as her sometimes and see if I can pull off something cool. Plus she is just adorable and the fact that her and Doomguy are now in the same game means that we can make the memes go full circle. I don't have a lot to say, I think she is a good addition, just not one of my favorites.

_____________________________________________

Ken - 70%

My initial reaction to him was "meh." To this day I still cannot get into Street Fighter and he was obvious so there wasn't even any excitement from the "shock" of his reveal. But I think he's cool, I can live with him. In fact I prefer him to Ryu. I love how his attacks hits the opponents multiple times. It makes me, a noob, feel like I am doing more combos than I'm actually doing. Because I suck at fighting games and more so at combos, but Ken's playstyle just feels really good, and the fire effects are a much appreciated detail. Speaking of.......

________________________

You wanna play fire with fire, huh?

Incineroar - 95%

I.....wasn't hyped for Incineroar at first, mostly because he killed the Grinch Leak. But man, I love his inclusion. I was cheering more for Decidueye at first but I'm actually really glad Incineroar happened. First, because he was my starter in Pokemon Sun. Second, his wrestling moveset is da bomb. He's really enjoyable to play. I particularly love his side special and final smash. Third, he is arguably one of the characters with the most personality in the game. I love how he taunts automatically. A lot of characters seem to suffer in the personality department simply because they can't be shown off well in a fighting game. but Incineroar, due to being a fighter, fits in perfectly. And finally, Smash made me appreciate his design. His fur looks great in this game and the details like the little flames falling off him are very cool. Overall, I think they did a fantastic job with Incineroar, I'm just not a fan of his recovery (It kinds of sucks).

______________________________________

Plant Gang - 85%

Not only do I actually like Plant, he's actually one of my favorite characters and one of the fighters I'm the best with. I'm dead serious. Yes, he's a stupid character. Yes, it was stupid to reveal him during the travesty that was the November Direct. Yes, Waluigi, Paper Mario, and Geno all deserve to be in the game over him. But I can't help but love this little **** with perfect teeth. I just jive with his moveset. His recovery is amazing and safe. His down special is great for edge guarding and sniping. His Pttooie move has given me plenty of highlights, such as it out-prioritizing projectiles and attacks which should have hit me, and throwing it out there while I'm off screen to surprise the opponent (It works every time). Oh yeah, and the poison attack is ridiculous. I just think he's super fun and has a lot of personality. Overall, he's gotten me plenty of laughs beyond his trailer and he is another fun character to screw around with. Definitely one of the most notable pleasant surprises for me in this game.

The main thing that detracts from this score is the fact that....it really should have been Waluigi, man. Both of my best friends are Waluigi fans, and one of them in particularly was pissed off at Plant so that deducts points for me
 
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Ridrool64

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I think I'll go in the order of ones I like most to least.

The Master of getting leaked: 80%. Ken is the Echo to end all Echos (fittingly since he's the last one. Why bother introducing a concept that gets dropped not even a year after unveiling?). Distinct from Ryu but still familar enough to work, there's something for everyone when Ken's in the game. He was a great choice, not much to say.

Hi! I'm Flowey!: 75%. Piranha Plant is a WTF pick who I think excels at being so utterly inconceivable yet brilliant. This is a character that feels like a history lesson to... several things. Not one particular moment, but everything that makes the species so diverse and interesting. It's something you love to see, something you didn't anticipate but is great to see when it actually happens.

Also Piranha Plant is, depending on your definition of the term, the last fighter with a Final Smash that isn't "press B to watch a cutscene" (I guess Pythra and Kazuya don't STAY in the cutscene but it's just so the attack can hit multiple people). That's kinda sad that we haven't had a mechanically new FS since and won't get one for a while if the new FSes (which I think were a bad change in an attempt to make them "competitive", which didn't work) stick around. So bonus points for that.

Big the Cat: 40%. Incineroar has that problem where its inclusion is going to be dated forever and ever. Unlike the others, it isn't a particularly important or popular Gen 7 mon so it pretty much got added because the timing was right, a trend with Pokémon that probably will never break. Its legacy will be getting added to Smash because... the timing was right and not much else. It's supposed to be the "true" grappler Smash never had (tell me that Icies weren't grapplers and catch these hands), but besides one special and a strong throw it really doesn't do that either. Probably one of the weaker newcomers. I don't care that it was the co-face of the Box theory since neither Box nor Grinch had the character I was gunning for so that doesn't play a role but still.

And then I remember it has a Big the Cat alt and my score becomes 400%. Just kidding.

Stupid Dog! Your Trailer Was Bad!: 20%. Everything I said about Daisy and Dark Samus goes double for Isabelle since she's supposed to be a unique character that helps prove Animal Crossing is more than just Villager copypastes, but if this is what the face of the franchise got, then I'm hoping we never see Tom Nook get in considering I doubt he'll be better off. Isabelle is that character I actively have to try to remember. She's just a non-addition with no real impact or potential with a boring moveset that doesn't work at all. And I don't hate the character identity wise but she's far from one of my favorites. Also her trailer sucked. It was slow, it was dull, and even from the perspective of "pretending to be Animal Crossing Switch" the ruse was revealed to me because A. "not actual game play footage" and B. she called Smash "Smash" instead of "Super Smash Bros. (tm)" meaning it was about Smash. So once I knew it was Isabelle's reveal trailer I was just thinking "hurry up already". I should NEVER be thinking that. WORST of all, she has Olimar syndrome and doesn't talk, which reduces a lot of her character. Overall I think Isabelle got the raw deal in Ultimate and hope that if she's here to stay she gets a Ganondorf/Wario/Sonic/Samus level of push for something new, otherwise I don't think the next game is big enough for both her and Villager.

But unlike Joker I have never actively been upset at her inclusion. So there's that.

Pass 1 teasers:

Terry is ****ing amazing with his only flaw being a nitpick, Banjo and Kazooie are great too as is Hero but my opinion on them has wavered due to circumstances. Byleth is hit or miss and... well, Ren is somebody I'll discuss tomorrow.
 

SneakyLink

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She Isabelle... this quick laugh line worked better in my head.
Isabelle: 50%

I admit I'm not a fan of Animal Crossing so to see a second character get in was mildly a disappointment on my end. When the game released I changed my tune with her sweet nature being awesome and her kit, although similar to Villager, somehow ended up being more annoying to fight against than Villager at times.

Rule of Thumb: Ken enjoys giving a thumbs up!
Ken: 70%

I had enough trouble playing Ryu in Smash 4, so Ken was tricky to get into, especially since he traded power for combos. I enjoy using Ken more than Ryu because of this however.

Instead of a joke for this line, I'm dedicating this line to Incineroar's Voice Actor in Japan: Unshō Ishizuka, who passed away 2 months and 19 days before the reveal.
Incineroar: 80%

When I played Pokémon Sun and Ultra Sun, Incineroar was not my starter of choice. It's design was not my personal favorite. However it's Smash moveset is everything I imagined a Professional Wrestler doing, and it does so with some of my favorite expressions in the game.

insert Little Shop of Horrors joke here
Piranha Plant: 40%

When Plant was initially revealed I laughed hard at the reveal due to sheer shock that a potted plant got in. After release it became one of favorites since despite not having eyes, it was one of the most expressive characters on the roster. Today I sometimes forget Piranha Plant is in the roster, it's moveset while fun at first didn't have staying power for me compared to other characters.
 

zeonie888

Smash Apprentice
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Feb 26, 2007
Messages
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:ultisabelle:: It was cute. I kinda had a feeling that she'd be put in since she was appearing in different games. I haven't played any Animal Crossing games but I feel she's a fine choice. 60%

:ultken:: The grinch leak was still floating around and I was on the skeptical side since a certain feline was missing from it. When Ken showed up I thought 'Oh cool! Now let's see if this leak is true or not.' Ken being Ryu's echo was neat although I am bad with him I won't deny the fact that he's here along Ryu. 60%

:ultincineroar:: When I saw him burst out with a loud shout that was sign that the leak was fake. I was a little relieved but couldn't help but feel bad for those who believed it. I have Sun and picked Incineroar as my starter and seeing this beast being a grappler was very cool! Overall I like him and his moveset. 70%

:ultpiranha:: I was with my brother as we watched the direct with this plant's debut. We weren't too sure with what this fella was doing at first but when it attacked Mario we were bursting with laughter from the moment that happened. I would never had thought a piranha plant would be a fighter but here we are. It's there and it showed me that anything could happen. 65%
 

DaUsername

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Back on the original August 8 satisfaction day, I gave all 5 characters 100% because K, Rool got in. Unfortunately, some of those scores will have to change.
:ultsimon:: 75%
Simon was a well deserved inclusion, and he brought with a cool stage with lots of good music. As for the character himself, he doesn't really fit my playstyle so I don't have much fun playing as him, sorry.

:ultrichter:: 75%
Richter is kind of a weird anomaly among echoes in that he debuted in Smash at the same time as his parent character and they actually used both characters for moveset inspiration. So I guess I have no choice but to give him the same score as Simon.

:ultmarth:: 0%
Sure, he's one of the only echoes with actual differences, but there's one problem, he's from Fire Emblem, so he gets a 0%. I would have kept his score higher if he was the only FE newcomer we got this game, but sadly that didn't happen.

:ultdarksamus:: 50%
Honestly, Dark Samus probably should have just stayed an Assist Trophy. At least she was more unique then. Though I guess it is kinda cool to play as Dark Samus even if she's just a glorified alt costume.

:ultkrool::
King K. Rool: 100%
Am I allowed to go higher?
I am so glad that this finally happened. He looks better than I ever imagined, and I can't wait to play as him.
I agree with past me on this one. Though now I've actually been able to play as him and holy crap is he so fun to play. K. Rool exceeded all of my expectations. Seriously, am I allowed to go higher than 100%?
 
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