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Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

ForsakenM

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Sans Undertale, but for Boomers - 20%

Probably my least favorite character included in this game. I didn't care for RPGs in general, let alone Final Fantasy, and I would have preferred that if there was a Final Fantasy character they would have at least gone with a SNES character like the Black Mage, or at least one from a different game. Instead, we got another character to represent what might as well be the only Final Fantasy game. I don't care for him.

If there's one more thing I can say about him, it's that he made everyone forget #FREEMELEE. That started trending only about a week before him, and after he got revealed it's like it never even existed. I may not care that much about Melee's competitive scene, but something about this just doesn't sit right with me.
I think my gut just churned something horrible at someone comparing the funny skeleton who drinks ketchup from the underground monster bunker to one of the few contenders of the most iconic video game villain of all time from the most beloved and iconic Final Fantasy of all time. I think I might get sick.

That movement never had a chance: not only were they not understanding enough of Nintendo's position and it was essentially cool at that time to be angry at Nintendo for reasons people didn't fully understand, but none of them were ever dedicated enough to hold anchor and boycott as a whole. You can whine all you want, but if you don't have the backbone to REALLY stick it to someone, then it's just meaningless words.
 

DrifloonEmpire

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I think my gut just churned something horrible at someone comparing the funny skeleton who drinks ketchup from the underground monster bunker to one of the few contenders of the most iconic video game villain of all time from the most beloved and iconic Final Fantasy of all time. I think I might get sick.

That movement never had a chance: not only were they not understanding enough of Nintendo's position and it was essentially cool at that time to be angry at Nintendo for reasons people didn't fully understand, but none of them were ever dedicated enough to hold anchor and boycott as a whole. You can whine all you want, but if you don't have the backbone to REALLY stick it to someone, then it's just meaningless words.
Can't say I felt bad for the Melee fanbase anyway
 

Phoenix Douchebag

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The whole Sephiroth and #FREEMELEE thing was just bad timing. It's like complaining about Sora because he was announced the same day as Nick All Star Brawl being released and somehow NASB fans thought this was a deliberate attack on the game, when most people in Japan (where Smash is made) don't recognize half of that game's roster, and don't even know Nickelodeon is even a thing.
 
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Sari

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Day over.

It's now time to rate the rest of FP2. Give satisfaction scores for:
  • Pyra/Mythra (count them as one character when giving your score)
  • Kazuya
  • Sora
  • An overall score for FP2 as a whole
We were originally going to rate Sora after he gets added into the game. However we've decided to rate him now due to the Ultimate speculation forums being locked just a few days after his release so we can have time to do the rest of the days on the schedule. We at least got a full Sakurai analysis of him which should be a good indicator on how his moveset/general inclusion is.

Day will end Sunday morning.

Megadoomer Megadoomer
 
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SKX31

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If there's one more thing I can say about him, it's that he made everyone forget #FREEMELEE. That started trending only about a week before him, and after he got revealed it's like it never even existed. I may not care that much about Melee's competitive scene, but something about this just doesn't sit right with me.

Can't say I felt bad for the Melee fanbase anyway
I don't wanna derail the thread, but I'll offer my input:

That debacle is not huge in the grand scheme of things, but still reinforced a sour taste in their mouths (especially combined with the allegations of Nintendo undermining the competitive communities and ghosting corps that surfaced around the time) and lead to them welcoming the Golden State Warriors' investment into the scene with open arms. Yes, the fanbase did not gain much momentum because the anger was arguably too loud and a bit too focused around the emulator side of things - and I'm saying this as a Melee fan, by the by. But I'd argue that it still undermined Nintendo's grip of the situation a bit - despite Sephiroth's release - much in the same way that Nintendo's handling of fan games has undermined their grip.

Day over.

It's now time to rate the rest of FP2. Give satisfaction scores for:
  • Pyra/Mythra (count them as one character when giving your score)
  • Kazuya
  • Sora
  • An overall score for FP2 as a whole
We were originally going to rate Sora after he gets added into the game. However we've decided to rate him now due to the Ultimate speculation forums being locked just a few days after his release so we can have time to do the rest of the days on the schedule. We at least got a full Sakurai analysis of him which should be a good indicator on how his moveset/general inclusion is.

Day will end Sunday morning.

Megadoomer Megadoomer
Okay, so :ultpyra: / :ultmythra: . A very tumultuos journey from the speculation side. "What?! I thought I was gonna be in Smash!" Mythra's sudden appearance.

Friendship. (Edit: Huh, exact same word I would've used had Sora been CP9.)

As the above indicates, while Pyra was a popular candidate within the speculation scene... it was with Rex. Mythra wasn't as much in the picture really. And this rollercoaster did not really cease with their reveal - not just because of the fact that they were revealed without Rex, but for a myriad of other reasons - related to XC2 or otherwise. Still though, their release period went without issues, and their reputation began to improve. XC2 as a game did recieve a major boost from the inclusion as well, what with copies of the game selling out and several notable streamers picking it up.

Competititively speaking, they established an extremely good reputation early and never looked back. Part of it is because of early tech discoveries, but another major reason is that a couple top-level players swapped to them. Their flagbearer is universally agreed to be Sparg0, a :ultcloud: progidy who picked them up as his co-main alongside Cloud. While he already was on the rise during the pandemic since he sat atop the Wi-Fi Warrior Rankings, the Aegis proved to gel with him extremely well: and his results with the Aegis (3rd at two very important tournaments, including a supermajor) is a main reason why he's currently solidifying his claim as a top 10 player. Cosmos is another notable main of theirs, as he's reguarily getting top 8 placings at majors. While it remains to be seen how effective they are, the Aegis are generally agreed to be amongst the Top 10 characters in the game, with quite a few claims that they're Top 3 (although there's a really fuzzy distinction between the two, lets be real).

Their Specials certainly help them here, alongside them complimenting each other via their stats. Pyra has access to Flame Nova, a usually commital if powerful "Get off me!" attack that can be a really good response to some ledge scenarios. Blazing End sees her throwing her sword a set distance - its spin not only covers a huge area, but also is highly damaging. If Pyra can reach the opponent in time it's possible to get a footstool setup. The catch with Blazing End is if it whiffs Pyra can't do much, but Pyra will take that trade off. Prominence Revolt is likewise extremely committal - it does little shield damage and its horizontal drift is lacking - but it has a huge hitbox and extreme power to go along it.

Swap, their shared down B, works much the same as :ultpokemontrainer: . Although with the key caveat that Pyra / Mythra aren't intangible until Frame 6 - unlike PT, whose Mons are intangible instantly (IIRC). This does make swapping between them a little riskier, but it's not a humongous commitment. Pyra's the slow but heavy-hitting of the duo: she might be a mediumweight in the code, but plays like a superheavy. She's the 6th slowest dash speed in the game, for instance (although her air speed is above average, her air acceleration is slightly below average). That said, Pyra does bring loads of power to bear. Mythra is the speedster of the partnership, possessing the 5th fastest running speed and is likewise fast in the air - with the caveat that her full hop height is below average, and her other jump heights average. While her hits are not strong individually - they're excellent at starting / maintaining combos.

Mythra's Specials help to reinforce them. Her Neutral B is Lightning Buster, a chargeable series of slashes that can "trap" opponents in its buzzsaw. I'm not entirely sure if this move needed 15 intangibility frames, but those make its start up difficult to challenge and it regardless is a great combo ender. Photon Edge is the most anime move in all of Smash period - she performs a series of teleporting slashes that's great at racking up damage assuming she hits. The trade off is that it does very little shield damage and is incredibly punishable on whiff, but it has its value regardless. Ray of Punishment / Chroma Dust begins with an upward slash followed by her shooting projectiles of choice to the opponent's face - making it another useful combo ender and decent if not amazing recovery.

Their normals have shared animations, but that does highlight their differences in stats even more. Mythra's D-Tilt excels at starting combos / juggles, Pyra's combo routes are less extensive but nevertheless damaging. Pyra's F-Tilt and U-Tilt work as spacing moves, while Mythra's versions are combo starters / extenders. N-Air is great for both of them - Mythra's a combo extender and sorta good "Get off me!", while Pyra has access to a N-Air like :ultike: 's. Mythra's U-Air is one of the best juggling moves in the game period because of its low risk and high reward, while Pyra's is a good follow up from D-Air and kills pretty early thanks to its generous 2 frames of spiking window. Their Smash Attacks are usually heavily commital, but Mythra's does a good job kill confirming and can in D-Smash's case send at an awkward angle, while Pyra's kill very early. Her U-Smash is (in)famously a potential kill confirm off of D-Air.

Their grab games are decent - their D-Throws are excellent combo starters, while their other throws are mostly used for positional advantage. Mythra has interestingly the stronger throws and can take some more advantage of them. U-Throw is of particular note here since that puts the opponent in a position for continuous U-Air use or Pyra swap.

In particular, Mythra has access to Foresight on her dodges akin to Bat Within - Foresight's delays Mythra's dodge a bit, but if it activates she takes half damage and no knockback, while the victim will be slowed for 36 frames (bit more than half a second). It's an excellent combo breaker if it activates - with the caveat being that it won't activate often in your standard Smash game. Still, given how much Mythra can combo / juggle opponents, it's a welcome aspect of her arsenal.

Still, they aren't without weaknesses. Their primary shared weakness is recovery: Prominence Revolt doesn't have great horizontal movement and doesn't spike like Aether on the way down, making it unsuitable as a sacrifical KO and meaning it can be challenged. Ray of Punishment / Chroma Dust is vurnerable to counters on the ascent and has a tendency to not snap to ledge until the end - making it very vurnerable to edgeguards and 2 frames. Photon Edge likewise doesn't snap until the end. In particular, both Pyra and Mythra heavily dislike semi-spikes that send diagonally down. Their disadvantage is generally poor due to their not-amazing air speed and rather fast fall speed making them susceptible to being comboed / juggled. Mythra doesn't have many answers outside of Foresight and Pyra relies on N-Air / the kinda slow D-Air in these situations. Pyra is liable to being punished on shield, while Mythra really lacks KO confirms outside of her Smash attacks and Lightning Buster, making her KO game rather linear.

Casually, Pyra seems to be the favorite. No surprise there - heavyweights traditionally do really well in this environment since long combos / juggles are nowhere near as common in the casual environment (plus any distractions presumably help heavyweights). Her trademark power does a lot to solidify this, as does her ability to control the stage with Blazing End and normals (especially Smash attacks akin to :ultganondorf: 's). Mythra does have the speed, but she has a pretty steep learning curve initially because her moves do not do a lot of damage individually and the only really beginner friendly moves are Lightning Buster and Photon Edge. Expect to see those two a lot.

Their Challenger Pack is pretty damn good. The stage is one of the better-looking ones, with quite a few cameos and Gramps himself reacting to the surroundings. My main issue is that the stage's right side is uncomfortably close to the blast zone, but still a great stage. The music is pretty good too - now I've not played XC2 (only watched bits and pieces) so I can't comment on which tracks are missing. Still, I definetely don't mind the tracks that got included. As for the Spirits, the major XC2 characters are included and I don't mind that.

All in all, Pyra and Mythra proved to be fun and interesting characters. Their design encourages swapping between them - while I don't believe Mythra auto-wins neutral, she's nevertheless excellent at doing so. She's also great at maintaining advantage for that matter. Pyra does her best work when the duo has the advantage already and she can come in to seal the stocks or otherwise keep the opponent on their toes.

(EDIT: Weird character interaction sidenote: Remember :ultshulk: challenging the duo at the end of the trailer? How would it go? Well, the Aegis seem to have an even matchup vs. Shulk, with quite a lot of volatility. In particular, the Aegis need to watch out for Shulk's Speed / Buster shenaningas since Shulk can match or even exceed the Aegis' reach on their normals, while Shulk has an answer to Mythra's combos in the form of Shield. Oh and Shulk has no problem going deep offstage to KO them that way. On the other hand, Shulk need to be careful not to be blown up quickly thanks to Buster's trade off of taking more damage himself, Foresight, and the Aegis can likewise kill Shulk early if he chooses Buster or Smash at the wrong time... or if he has recently exhausted Shield.)

Satisfaction: 65 %

Addendum: While I've been completely neutral on XC2 - which colors my perception of the Aegis a bit - I still appriciate that they got in all in all. They might be a bit on the "vanilla" side of things as far as playstyle goes (beyond the transformation mechanic) and that's okay given that FP2's been home to some crazy experimentation. Not my absolute favorite first party (that'd go to Ring Fit), but hey.

:ultkazuya: . The Iron Fist of Darkness. Overshadowed by both his father and son in the speculation scene. Broke the Mii costume rule.

Heat. Haze. Shadow.

Kazuya's journey to Smash was not an easy one either. It likely began when Sakurai considered his father for 4, but rejected the idea because it was considered too difficult of a task. That had hung over Tekken ever since, and oftentimes caused fans to wonder how that would be executed. Heihachi's Mii costume returning did not help the situation at all for a year... until a certain pair of hands dropped Ganondorf into a volcano. That took the entire fandom by surprise. The Level 9 Kazuya CPU got a lot of interest early, especially since it turned out to be able to do a lot of Kazuya's tricker stuff and even prove to be a challenge to Serious Business players.

In the competitive scene Kazuya got his flagbearer rather early on: the earlier noted :ult_terry: player Riddles. Riddles was initially not sure about how effective Kazuya was - he actually doubted the new character quite a bit - but after some surprisingly good tournament wins and placements Riddles chose to stick with Kazuya alongside Terry. It no doubt helped that he got used to Kazuya's combo ability and pulled off some crazy stunts. Other notable Kazuya mains include Axiom XL and Brr (who just yesterday upset several more well-known players at a major tournament). All in all, Kazuya's effectiveness is somewhat debated, but he's commonly considered at least high tier.

His moveset is very, very close to Tekken - and his Specials are no exception. Devil Blaster is a hugely commital projectile that nevertheless does really solid damage. Its best use might be for harassing or edgeguarding, but it does a good job with that. Devil Fist is a likewise commital rush forward that - if it hits a close opponent - causes him / her to crumple, setting up followups. Devil Wings is not just a mainly-vertical recovery move - it's a slow but very potent out of shield option as well, helped by the fact that it doesn't leave him helpless. Heaven's Door is a relatively shortranged but powerful command grab akin to :ultbowser: 's Flying Slam, and it gets upgraded with Rage.

All right, time to talk about the rest of his moveset. Hoo boy. When Kazuya reaches 100 %, he gains Rage (not to be confused with the universal Rage mechanic). Rage not only increases his damage output by 1.1X, but also grants him access to his Rage Drive. Using the Rage Drive consumes Rage - and if he takes enough damage / misses enough Drives the Rage will go away (here's a nifty table, the max damage sustained before it goes away is generally 135 - 150 %). That said, the Rage Drive kills mad early and it can be activated in three ways (Grab, Down B, Crouch Dash + held attack or special button) which makes it dangerous to be around Kazuya when he has Rage.

Kazuya comes equipped with the largest movepool any Smash character has had so far. Holy ****:

  • 8 tilts + including the 10 hit as one of two jab strings (with the other being a more standard 1 2 3).
  • 4 attacks done while crouched (incl. one that's done while uncrouching).
  • 3 attacks done out of a Crouch Dash - of which WGF has the EWGF variant. All three are command inputs.
  • Two Dash Attacks - including a double dash attack.
  • A special command input throw.
  • All the above + more standard attacks like Smash Attacks and B moves.
Hoo boy.

D-Tilt (Neiji Uraken) is one of Kazuya's best combo starters, and even if comes out slowly because Kazuya has to turn around it also can be cancelled with shield, giving it utility as a bait. U-Tilt (Twin Pistons) is a good combo starter / extender and can be cancelled as well. Down Back Tilt (Stature Smash) always trips the opponent hit, giving it use as a "get off me!" or tech chase starter. He has several spacing moves here, like Back Tilt (Flash Tornado) and Up Back Tilt (Jump Side Kick), and several that kills early like F-Tilt (Oni Front Kick) - which is essentially Ganon's F-Tilt in many regards - and Up Forward Tilt ( Roundhouse to Triple Spin Kicks). His two Dash attacks include a rather standard Dash Attack (that's nevertheless powerful) and Left Splits Kick - the kick with a reflector. Committal but the strongest reflector in the game (2.4X), making it worth the risk if well timed. His Smash Attacks are also worth noting partly because of the damage based armor they have - F-Smash and U-Smash are excellent combo finishers, while D-Smash knocks people down and can spike. The 10 hit is really, really unreliable (it's not even a true combo, it can be SDI'd out of) but potentially devastating if the Kazuya gets the entire thing since it can do up to 45 - 50 %.

His crouching attacks are with noting. He has a crouch jab, Crouch forward attack (Tombstone Crusher) is a roll with immense power, Crouch back attack ( Crouch Spin Kick) is good for setting up tech chases at low %, while his uncrouching attack - Demon God Fist - is dangerous since it crumples opponents and can be a nasty surprise.

Kazuya inherits Tekken's "wavedash" the Crouch Dash - and not only does the Crouch Dash alliviate Kazuya's slow movement (even if its technical execution window is steep) it also allows three attack on its own depending on which button is pressed after the Crouch Dash. Wind God Fist (tapped A), Dragon Uppercut (held A) and Spinning Demon to Left Hook (B). The latter two are extremely potent KO moves, while WGF is a pretty good combo starter... but if you time WGF near-perfectly you get the Electric Wind God Fist. Suddenly this move gets a **** ton of stun, and while EWGF has a larger DI window a Kazuya who can do this consistently can just kill the opponent with either combo extenders or finishers. Extremely difficult but extremely rewarding.

Kazuya's air game is slow - not helped by his unique Frame 7 jumpsquat - but has quite a lot of strong aerials to go alongside. N-Air can spike if well timed, U-Air is a highly damaging kick that covers a lot vertically, F-Air is useful as a combo extender, and both B-Air and D-Air can kill relatively early even if they're commital. His grabs and throws are also very versatile - D-Throw is a useful combo starter, F-Throw and U-Throw can set up edgeguard situations, while his unique command input throw - Gates of Hell - is a monster of a throw, dealing 24 % and sending at a low enough angle that it just straight up deletes those with poor recoveries.

However, he does have his share of weaknesses. His learning curve is more of a learning cliff - it's very easy to misinput with this character unless one uses a specialized control scheme and playing him well almost requires tons of practice. He doesn't have the ability to cancel normal attacks into Specials either, making his combo game much different and much more precise for that matter. Kazuya's really heavy weight and floaty fall speed may allow him to survive a lot - but he is extremely vurnerable to getting comboed and juggled himself. The rather poor start up on his moveset means that he can struggle with handling pressure up close or otherwise being in a situation where the Kazuya player doesn't dictate the tempo. He also has overall poor mobility - with him being Bottom 10 in several speed stats - making him somewhat reliant on the Crouch Dash for approaches and making him rather linear overall. His recovery can be readily exploited by edgeguarders, making it risky.

Casually, he's difficult to get a hang of but can nevertheless be fun in the right situations. His enormous movepool gives him tools to deal with every situation, but he has so many that it can rather easy to forget. Still though, his sheer power and ability to clear the room does give him a chance when faced with multiple opponents or items. It does kinda help that he can use Gates of Hell on the ATs, and that his recovery won't be as often contested.

His Challenger Pack is really good. The stage is one of the better ones in this DLC - akin to KOF Stadium, Mishima Dojo discourages camping at the edge and the breakable walls do a good job condensing the fighting. Heihachi's appearance is a neat touch. The music is really good - 39 tracks is nothing to scoff at and includes everything from Jin's Theme to Yodelling in Meadow Hill - the only gripe I have personally is that Heat Haze Shadow should've had its 2nd section too. The Spirits are likewise a really good selection of Tekken characters, no complaints there.

All in all, Kazuya was a character I didn't expect but enjoyed a ton nonetheless personally, and this is a sentiment that kinda echoes throughout the fanbase. Wasn't considered, but nevertheless became a generally welcome addition.

(Weird character interaction sidenote: Kazuya's weirdest matchup is really difficult to say because he has a lot of strange ones. I'm not sure there's a matchup chart yet for him. If I had to guess, I'm going with characters who can likewise Zero-to-Death him just as well as he can Zero-to-Death someone, because those matchups will be volatile / defensive as all hell. :ultpikachu: / :ultpichu: might remind Kazuya players of Gon a bit too much - even if Kazuya never had the "opportunity" to face him - due to their small size and tendency to pancake. Kazuya's MU vs.:ultluigi: might devolve into Kazuya maneuvering around Luigi's endless supply of Poltergust plungers and Luigi's wall of F-Airs just as Luigi tries not to get caught by a EWGF or D-Throw. :ultrob: could be an really interesting case since both are really heavy and large targets - meaning both will take a ton of damage off of one hit even if it doesn't result in a Zero-to-Death. ROB also - like the JACK robots - has an excellent CQC game.)

Satisfaction: 95 %

Addendum: My secondary for a really good personal reason (and I say this while my main is Cloud, one of the most straightforward characters in the game). I'm the kind of guy who thrives with some level of technical demand, and while I'm not able to EWGF someone consistently to death he nevertheless proved really fun to play. He also made me appriciate Tekken's jank more, which is a bonus. Plus, they made sure to include some great tracks like Electric Fountain, Plucking Tulips and Yodelling in Meadow Hill - my only gripe music-wise is the awkward pause in Heat Haze Shadow.

Sora:

Satisfaction (tentative, can't judge him entirely ): 80 %

I can only judge from pre-release footage, but going with KH1 as basis for him might be a good call. I'm the kind who enjoys KH2's zany aerial combat, but eh, KH1 being the basis is good too, I'm not gonna complain. He also looks fun and unique as a floaty "swordie". My only real gameplay related issue is how he'll handle scramble situations, but we'll see.

Also, it's Sora. One of the most charismatic video game characters out there and from the silly-yet-lovable franchise that is Kingdom Hearts. Where Goofy can pontificate about Sephiroth being the Darkness within Cloud's heart while Cloud "will get him." Oh don't forget the entire spiel about time travel. Of course I like the inclusion because his character and franchise.

FP2 in total rounds out to a: 78 % (again, so far).

Like Sora, this is subject to some change, but I'm pretty happy with FP2 and DLC in general. While I didn't get my MW, it's not a big deal in the end and the 6 (12 characters in total) felt like they were worth the money spent*. There's a good mix between straightforward and experimental here, between franchises associated with Nintendo and primarily non-Nintendo content. So all in all, these were some solid characters and a good way to extend Ultimate's life.

*(Yes, I realize the implications of this, but still.)
 
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BowserKing

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Pyra and Mythra: 85%. I was honestly against the idea of Rex and Pyra in Smash, but seeing Pyra and Mythra getting in was quite surprising, and interestingly got me interested in Rex being playable in smash, boy how times have changed. Pyra and Mythra are quite fun to play as, and their moves give out some uniqueness. Overall, they are worthy fighters in smash.
Kazuya: 85%. Kazuya is a bit surprising, but we get another Namco Rep so that’s good. Kazuya is quite difficult but still fun to play as regardless. Overall Kazuya is a fun choice for a Smash Bros rep.
Sora: Since he is almost in smash, I can’t rate the fun to play as aspect. But he is a surprising fighter, that I though was highly unlikely, but him showing up is prove that Ultimate lives up to the name. Sora’s moveset is quite fun. Overall, once I play as Sora, i’ll give him an overall scor, but I’ll give him a 85% for now.
Overall pass: 92%. That pass is worth it especially for Steve, Min-Min and the many great soundtracks and spirits. This pass is worth it. Overall Ultimate is the best Super Smash Bros game ever.
 

WeirdChillFever

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Aegis Where The Heart Is: 50%
Well, that’s a freebie. Probably one of the more expected characters, partially due to their high popularity and the absolutely god-shattering idea that first parties now purely exist for shilling and marketing purposes only, but not an earth-shattering reveal regardless. That’s honestly fine. The two are popular characters in their own right and not everything needs to be big and better.

I don’t like the fact that Rex & Pyra with a full Xenoblade 2-inspired concept set could so easily be exchanged for the two-braincells-of-the-same-coin turned button masher swordie though. I don’t necessarily mind the lack of Rex, since Pyra and Mythra (and the debate about who’s better) arguably is a big reason why Xenoblade 2 is popular and a modern classic. It’s just that it gives me the feeling anything Xenoblade 2 got the okay from Nintendo, as long as it were to market and represent the new game. It’s not a very inspired moveset and even that is an understatement.

So, I’m conflicted. On one hand, a Rex & Pyra fighter would be another “game simulator” playstyle that would probably not really work in Smash regardless of technical difficulties like we’ve seen with Steve and Min Min. Pyra and Mythra are fun and recognizeable characters and their playstyle is a fun new twist that was designed for Smash. On the other hand, it is quite a tumble in uniqueness to go from a unique battle system to Tweedle-Dum and Tweedle-Do pulling a Marth and Echo Fighter in one slot, which makes me think the mandate to still go for Xenoblade 2 characters no matter the compromise was a marketing move, which I don’t think Smash should be for.

Overall, it’s a clash between theory and practice. In theory, stapling two swordfighters together for the sake of getting the two in the game is a bold move, to say the least, but in practice, the mechanic works and was arguably missing from Smash more than anything Rex could’ve yanked straight from their game and the two are just kinda fun to play as even if the set is not too inspired.

Fighter’s Pass‘ Hard Pass: 20%
Again, I get/appreciate why Kazuya was chosen but I just always forget he‘s in the game because I never had the intention to play him. A Smash moveset that’s purely a theoretic endeavor to see how far the limits can be pushed is fun occasionally but we’ve had a few already in Fighter’s Pass 2 and also had Terry in 1 to add to an already existing club of fighting game input characters, so unlike Steve it’s not even all too novel. Maybe it’s just because we’re 80 characters and three years into the game but any character that requires me to reroute my brain just to understand their moveset is just dead on arrival for me.

Yodeling is like a full 10% of this rating,

Sora: Abstain
Haven‘t played as him yet, which I think is kinda a must for the rating

FP2: Abstain
It’s kind of a split pass. Three movesets are super novel, great to have them for the variety but also a great insurance that I’ll personally never touch them but on a theoretical speculation level are great to have too with sales and representation and all that jazz. On the other hand, we have three swordfighters. One with a questionable design philosophy, one that’s knocked it out of the park and one that’s so far a bit of a question mark. We’re also 80 characters in, I can’t expect every characters to be on my list of mains, so maybe that’s why I appreciate the more low-key sets that I can take for a spin without too much investment. The fact that all of them at least appeal to me on a theoretical level, be it moveset theory or speculation theory, makes this pass at least have value outside of playability.

The reason I’m abstaining is because Sora is a bit of a tiebreaker. If I like picking him up and playing as him, Sepiroth and Sora are a dream team and Aegis is fun for the occasional round as well. If I don’t like playing as Sora, then it’s really just Sepiroth pushing the cart on the scale of actual playability.
 

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:ultpyra:/:ultmythra:: 101%

It'd be 95% under normal circumstances, but for the sole satisfaction of seeing past BS takes being debunked hard at the time of their reveal, I give 6 additional % to my rate of their inclusion.

Also a blast of a music selection, with the only harmful omissions being The Power of Jin and Song of Giga Rosa.


:ultkazuya: : 65%

Not as exhilarating to play as :ult_terry: but I'm glad that Bandai Namco had a second representative in Smash.

And that coat alt is swag as hell.


:ultsora: : 75%

I haven't played to a single Kingdom Hearts game (barring the Dream Drop Distance demo), but he was such a fantastic way to end the development of a game like Ultimate.

The complete opposite of :ultbyleth: on how to round off a pass.


FP2 global satisfaction: 90%

Way more satisfying than the first one, adding characters the base game failed to add due to bad timing (:ultminmin, :ultpyra:/:ultmythra:), filling holes to franchises that lacked in content (:ultsephiroth:), being able to add characters and series that have been in talk for a long time (:ultsteve:, :ultkazuya:), and ending with a bang by adding the most requested character on the Ballot (:ultsora:).
 
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White Frost

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Pyra/Mythra

Satisfaction: 90%. They're pretty fun overall, and it's good to see Transformation characters again. I don't have much interest in Xenoblade, though. Still, they're neat~

Kazuya

Satisfaction: 60%. I'm not really interested in Tekken, but I do like having a unique moveset overall. Having tons of options isn't a bad thing, much like with Hero. That said, I would've preferred another character from Namco-Bandai(Agumon, Nightmare, Lloyd Irving).

Sora

Satisfaction: 80%. He's a very deserving character, a pretty large icon, being the second most known character in Pass 2. Though the lack of more than 3 costumes does hurt, and zero Disney regular content(he does have a reference to a Disney-based alt and he has the Mickey keychain, but those are bare cameos and not that notable) is annoying. Especially when tons of characters have bigger references to non-game content overall.

Overall Rating(for this half): 50.333333 repetend. Not as good as the first half overall, but still pretty neat. It's good to see Nintendo and 3rd parties collide in epic battles.
Overall Rating for Pass a whole: 72.5%. It's still a great pass. I only got one I outright wanted, but that doesn't make it bad at all! It's a great collection of characters, as is the DLC as a whole(starting from PP all the way to Sora).
 
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Flyboy

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Taking advantage of the grace period to rate the entirety of pass 2 at once! Sad I missed pass one...

Min Min: 70%
:ultminmin:
While ARMS isn't exactly an exciting pick for me, I'm happy they went with a character who was out-of-the-ordinary that still managed to be a fan favorite. Plus, our pal Ramen was happy as the most unlikely winner ever. I loved her trailer - the comic art style was really sharp and I hope they use that for future games in the series. ARMS wouldn't have been my preferred first party character to add, but I get it - second chance theory ended up holding true, huh? Super funny. Anyway, her inclusion alone makes me smile, and because of the guessing game the Discord server I'm part of went on a deep dive of ARMS lore based around the Free Comic Book Day comic and I gotta say the story behind the ARMS universe is bizarre. They really should give us a story mode next game. Like...you guys okay??

Also, Min Min succeeds for me because she's more fun in Smash than she is in her home game, which I'm not at all hot on. So yeah, fun addition, but not gonna set the world on fire for me and I haven't really spent much time on her since her release.

Steve: 99%
:ultsteve:
So, Steve wasn't someone I was hoping for. I actually really like Minecraft, though I haven't played ever since I accidentally lost the beach hotel I was building by flying too far away from it. It's funny - when I saw his trailer I had a brief horrifying moment of "Wait, did they add Freddy Fazbear?" when I saw the eyes in the dark. But no, it's Steve, and I gotta admit his trailer is hilarious, it's super cool that we have such interesting skins, and the music is great. But what makes this man so high in my eyes is the sheer amount of effort that Sakurai and his team poured into the character. Like, what the ****, they reprogrammed EVERY STAGE! They literally made Minecraft in the game! His stage has biomes and different layouts and is destructible! So, so cool. I can't play him worth a damn and I wish they had been able to add original music from the game and I wish I had a big enough brain to understand his kit. But when you see a good Steve you can't help but be impressed. What an awesome addition - and it really is cool to see the biggest game of all time represented in Smash.

Sephiroth: 100%
:ultsephiroth:
It's so funny because after pass 1 giving me Joker and Terry (and to a lesser extent Byleth) and after Steve's reveal I thought to myself "Well, this pass has been fun, but I doubt there'll be anything left in it that'll appeal to me directly. I mean, Travis just got a Mii costume, and Heihachi was deconfirmed during Min Min's presentation..."

...I was a fool.

Hilariously, when watching The Game Awards, dreading Jonesy, I saw the slice and thought for a very weird second that it was going to be specifically Vergil from DMC. Vergil over Dante. I don't know why. But my god, when the music hit I flipped out. I LOVE Final Fantasy 7, but back when Cloud was revealed it was more I respected it and remembered enjoying it growing up. However, in recent years, I've had friends play it and I've replayed it and realized how damn good it truly, truly is. So Sephiroth's reveal was in a sense a way to allow me to experience the massive moment that was Cloud all over again with personal context and one of the coolest trailers ever. Like, how can you watch that and not understand the magnitude of how huge this villain entering Smash is? I love that they based his look on the OG concept art and polygon models, not Remake or Advent Children, and while the wing is part of Crisis Core and AC, so much more is taken from his boss fight and original game abilities. It even has a few KH nods, which is funny considering what was to come, and it added the FF7 Miis, music, and one of my favorite stages in the game, finally giving such a legendary game the representation it deserved. Also he's so fun to play. Truly he makes you feel overpowered and badass, though he isn't broken at all, it's just such an expertly-conceived pack from start to finish.

Pyra/Mythra: 100%
:ultpyra: :ultmythra:
I cannot believe I'm ranking them this high.

During base game and pass 1, I would have said Rex was my absolute least-wanted. There was just something about him that gave me the absolute worst vibes. It's superficial, but I hated his pants. I thought XC1 was okay at best because of the steps back it took from the Xeno games that came before it, and while I liked Xenoblade Chronicles X and was holding out hope for Elma, I knew she was a long-shot the more time went on. However, I think time moving on helped me a lot. I got to make friends with some undeniably wonderful people, including one person who loves XC2, and through her I started to understand why XC2 is so beloved, especially considering this person would later play Xenogears and Xenosaga and together we would realize that XC2 has much more in common thematically with those games than with XC1 or X. I started to understand Pyra/Mythra as characters and I grew really fond of them, along with other characters in the game like Morag, Brighid, and Zeke.

When the trailer started, I realized it was Smash, because I had tuned in late and knew they had revealed the character already. I was fully prepared for Rex, but I was still happy for my friend who had opened my eyes, even if I was still not really into Rex himself. But no, after a genuinely hilarious trailer of Rex walking around looking sad, it turns out that it's not him - it's Pyra who counts as the main rep! I was delighted because it was such a strange surprise, but when I realized what her stance change mechanic was all about and saw that absolutely gorgeous stage I was all in. I even eventually bought XC2 and played a bit of it and wow, it really is a super pretty game with amazing music.

However, the reason I'm ranking them this high isn't just because I've managed to fully turn around, it's because somehow against all odds they just jive with my playstyle PERFECTLY. I love doing tricky swapping plays and avoiding attacks and projectiles. Pyra hits like a truck, Mythra zips around, and I love going back and forth between them. Combine that with Hazardless Alrest being possibly my favorite stage in pass 2 and you have a character that managed to delight and surprise me, and I love that. I love being proven wrong by Sakurai, and this pass has him doing it again and again and again. Anyway, following these two, there's no way they'd be able to hit another 100%, right?

Kazuya: 100%
:ultkazuya:
WRONG!!! So, I mentioned it earlier, but Heihachi was one of my most-wanted. I LOVE the Tekken series and wanted a Mishima karate practitioner so bad because not only is Tekken legendary I also love fighting game characters, especially ones that hit like a damn truck. I thought Tekken was off the table when they brought back Heihachi's Mii. Little did I know that one year later they would surprise me again. Me and another member of the server I'm in were so bummed out that we wouldn't get Tekken after that costume that there was a running gag we had with another user that they're the reason Heihachi was "killed". Well, after that trailer, all was forgiven. I remember seeing the shot of a mountain on a stormy night and thinking it was going to be a Dark Souls rep, but as soon as I saw the lava come into view I FREAKED OUT. I KNEW it was going to be Tekken, and when they revealed Kazuya's devil eye, I knew my boy had made it.

Now, as mentioned, Heihachi would've been my preferred rep. I just like him as a character more. But being able to use the Devil Gene in Smash with a villain protagonist? How awesome is that? And holy moley, his moveset is insane! Inputs! Crazy hard-hitting attacks! Devil form transformations! It is absolutely amazing that Sakurai was able to go back to the well of ideas he had during Smash 4 and get Tekken accurately represented in Smash! On top of that we get his suit from Tekken 7, a BEAUTIFUL stage, Heihachi as a cameo, and tons of amazing music from a series that is known for serving up banger after banger. Unreal. I can't believe this pass has been full of people rescued from negotiations hell or who missed the base game. I only wish there were more Tekken Tag Tournament 2 tracks but we got Yodeling in Meadow Fields so it balances out.

Sora: 100%
:ultsora:
I'm still utterly brimming with happiness over this. I have a recorded reaction of how me and my partner reacted when Sora was revealed and really it just ended with us dissolving into tears the moment we heard Hikari. Sora was my partner's most-wanted, and we played all the games together just last year. I never considered him one of my most-wanted but I guess I was wrong because the magic that welled up within me when he drifted out of the portal was an unbelievably beautiful and powerful feeling. There's just something so...right about Sora's reveal and his being in the game. He was so popular among all the demographics - hardcore Smash fans, lapsed Smash fans, Kingdom Hearts fans, fans of gaming - and he's a true icon for an entire generation. You still see KH cosplayers all over cons and to so many people he's THE face of the ARPG genre if not RPGs as a whole. They hit us with the hype bomb to end all hype bombs, and it's nuts to finally have closure on the ballot, too.

The thing that sticks out to me is how GOOD he looks! I'm not at all fond of KH1's art style, but seeing KH1 Sora in Smash helps me really understand what they were going for with his design. It's cute and charming, whimsical and soft. He's just a good kid. And getting the other alts? Some of the best alts in the game, honestly, especially Timeless River. What a cool surprise. I'm also in love with the stage - Hollow Bastion is such a cool idea but the way it even transitions into what would've been my pick for a level, Dive Into The Heart, is magnificent. He looks fun to use, he looks great in-game, we even got the English voices!! My only wish is that some of his kit was taken more from later games rather than being KH1-centric and that we got more music..but you know, I'm sure it was a licensing nightmare all around. It's a miracle that Sakurai and his team managed to pull this off, and to end the game as well. Absolutely wild.

Overall Pass Satisfaction: 100%
I constantly wage war with myself trying to figure out which pass I like more. On one hand, Joker and Terry were impossible dreams, one of which I thought would never happen but happened first, and one I thought had a chance but would be left in the dust. Terry is still my favorite addition in Smash history, and if we ever get a next Smash I hope he's brought back just so he can get another cool reveal. The rest of the pass were all strong for me and I've had a great time playing them, but there's something about Pass 2 that just constantly kept up the excitement for me, even with characters I didn't think I'd be excited for. They really went all-out, with unique movesets, representation for series' that really needed it, and three personal hype bombs that definitively show that sometimes, yes, you CAN end with a bang. Pass 2 just ties such a nice bow on Smash Ultimate, a game I love that has been part of my life for years, and I can't wait until Sora drops so I can keep enjoying this game for years to come. I just wanna beat all the Classic Modes!
 

Noipoi

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:ultpyra:: 70%

Originally, I really wasn’t too hot on these two. Like yeah I was happy for the Xenoblade fans, the series could use another character. But it didn’t do anything for me personally. I was pretty disappointed, actually. But I guess this is what makes Sakurai a genius, because this is one of those times where a moveset completely turns your opinion around. I grew to live playing Pyra. She hits like a truck, has crazy strong moves, and a trash recovery. Just like my baby, Incineroar! Mythra I’m less crazy about, I’m not one for speedy characters with lighter attacks, but she’s okay. If you had asked me to rank this character at reveal, they’d be at the bottom. Now? Well they’re not at the top, but more like a very high mid.

:ultkazuya:: 50%

Kazuya for me is one of those characters that is simply there. I don’t hate him by any means, he’s pretty fun to play. But he’s not one of my favorites. He’s squarely in the middle. But like I said, he’s fun to play, and he brought that fun yodeling song with him. So that’s a plus.

:ultsora:
: 100%

I know he’s not out yet so I can’t judge him gameplay wise, but y’know what? If he plays like a dream that’ll just make him 200% I don’t even care. Sora was the most perfect way to end this game imaginable, I really ant think of any other character who’d end the game so well. I’m indescribably happy about this. To see what was once considered a pipe dream be made manifest, well that’s what ultimate’s all about isn’t it? Thank you Sakurai and team! You did an incredible job!…….Who wants to bet the Mickey keychain cost more than getting the rights for every other character combined?


And with that, FP2 is complete. Overall? I’d rate it 95%. Yeah, I think it’s that great. Not incredible, but damn good. Leagues better than pass 1 imo. Yeah pass one had Banjo and Hero, but it also had Byleth. Pass 2 has Sephiroth, Steve, Sora, and even the Nintendo picks are way better in this pass. Pass 2 wins.
 

Ramen Tengoku

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Part 1 thoughts to compare and contrast

Pass 2 Ratings: Part 2


:ultpyra:/:ultmythra: Sam and Cat
Satisfaction: 95%
The Xenoblade series has really cemented itself as a Nintendo mainstay, so another Xenoblade rep made too much sense. While I was moreso on the Elma train, Pyrthra won me over extremely quickly with their flashy movesets and playstyle. Probably my favorite newcomer from a moveset perspective.

:ultkazuya: Insert Tekken 1 gif of Kazuya's grin
Satisfaction 80%
I'm shocked how much I love Kazuya. With a moveset as expansive as his, there's almost never a dull match, even if there's no way I can master him lol. Will admit I was rooting for Heihachi as the Tekken rep, but Kazuya was still a fair choice here I'd say. Tekken in general really needed a character, and I'm glad it got one.

:ultsora: WHEN YOU WALK AWAY YOU DONT HERE ME SAY 'PLEEEAASSE, OH BAAABYYYY!
Satisfaction: 100%
As a huge Disney fan, KH was on my radar for the longest time. I finally got around to playing it mid last year, and I loved it so much. Sora became a pretty big want for me moving forward. So needless to say, I was pretty ecstatic come the 5th and finding out he's the final character. What a better way to end this massive crossover filled with fanservice than to bring in one of the most requested characters in Smash history who happens to hail from yet another massive crossover?

Overall Pass 2 Satisfaction: 90%
My favorite batch of newcomers this entire game. The only one I'm not head over heels with is Sephiroth, and even then he's pretty good. Technically speaking, Id probably give this pass a 100% given there were more than enough characters I was satisfied with, but it felt best to just do the actual math here. Even then, this was a phenomenal set of characters to send off this game.
 
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fogbadge

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not an awful lot of shielding for an ageis
0% this was just awful. when you get right down to it they were just my second least favourite characters among the main cast. if we had to have someone other than the protag there were so many better options from nia who has the best character to morag who just kicks but at every turn to zeke the best character in the game with hilarious misfortune. or if we had to have a blade why not the polite white tiger of the second hald of the hilarious zeke double act. but alas it had to be the mcguffin sisters because of reasons that were arbitrary at best. ok so the mechanic you had planned didnt work but the same thing happened with diddy and you let him in. and when i asked why rex had to have this mechanic some people out there were more than "happy" to give me an explanation which was the equivalent to saying if the hero of winds cant control the winds then he shouldnt be in smash. and when i keep seeing persona fans saying that joker is missing some key things from his character this reasoning loses even more water. basically every reason i ever got for this, from the fans i remind you not sakurai, dont stand up to scrutiny. sakurai told us that what he had planned didnt work and that was fair enough but he never told us why it had to be that way or no way so its hard for me not to see this as a touch more of his inconsistency. see aymui and marth. when explanations comes from the fans rather than the makers something's gone wrong somewhere. especially when those fans deliberately ignore things that might disprove their thread of logic. so between the fact that theyre not the best characters and we only got a half explanation as to why no rex these will just remain another bitter example of what could have been.

half naked half demon
0% eh dont play tekken so this was underwhelming. not to mention he had the most boring reveal of all he was just chucking guys off a cliff like he was tidying up after sephiroth's trailer. nothing else to say really.

not the sharpest keyblade among the guardians
100% i love kingdom hearts. its right up there with zelda, pokemon and mario as one of my most favourite game series. the two greatest crossovers in gaming are crossing over. all we need now is layton vs wright. sora in smash has been something i wanted to see for a long even briefly entertaining the idea in the brawl days and imaging what itd be like to see him on the dojo. and now its happened. its so awesome. plus a whole stage with yoko shimomura music? yes please. best dlc character and best 3rd party character.

pass as a whole well according to that calculator i googled 4 out of 11 is roughly 36% so we'll go with that

oh wait wrong one make that 50% for FP2

i also want to say 100% satifaction for today's ac direct. i know its not something we're rating but i wanted to say it anyway.
 
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TCT~Phantom

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TCT~Phantom
Pyra and Mythra:ultpyra::ultmythra:100% Satisfaction

Going into Pass 2, there was one thing I was absolutely certain of: we would end up getting Xenoblade 2 content. The writing just seemed on the wall. After Byleth came out, there really were not too many new franchises or big hits on the switch to shill. Astral Chain sadly got spirited away, as did Ring Fit. Animal Crossing and Pokemon, despite having big successes on the switch, got big spirit events. Xenoblade 2 seemed like a softball pick. It had not much content in the base game which would be perfect for DLC. It was a very successful game and one of the Switch's big first year releases. Sakurai even said himself that ARMS and Xenoblade 2 barely missed the cutoff for the base game. When Min Min came, I was all but certain we would get XC2 content, most likely Rex.

Well, I was half right. We got XC2 content, but it was the Aegis instead of Rex. In hindsight, I kind of get it despite being dismissive of the idea at first. Having Pyra and Mythra be the focus makes sense, as they are by far the most iconic characters from Xenoblade 2. While you do sadly miss out on the Driver aspect, Sakurai did clarify that they did not go with that for technical reasons sadly. As a result, we got Pyra and Mythra.

Switching characters have been done in the past, but they have always been a massive hurdle design wise. Zelda and Sheik are a great example of how the concept at its worst can go sour, with Sheik still adhering to her core design and Zelda having gotten a lot of moveset tweaks and buffs since Brawl, to the point that now she is finally arguably a mid tier. Samus and Zero Suit were a great example of the faults of this too, with ZSS only ebing accessible at the start of a match in brawl with a specific button combination and their swap being tied directly to final smashes. Pokemon Trainer in Brawl attempted to force switching through Stamina, but that sucked. Ultimate seemed the perfect time to revisit the idea again after Pokemon Trainer went from being one of the worst designed characters in the series in Brawl to one of the best designed in Ultimate.

The Aegis end up taking a different approach by effectively being semi clones of each other. The Aegis share extremely similar normals, albeit with some differences like Mythra having more multi hits. The difference comes from their basic attributes and specials. Pyra favors raw power and reach, while mythra favors lightning mobility and speed. As a result, you dont really need to learn how to play two separate characters in order to get their full mileage. And oh boy, you can get a lot of mileage out of these two. Putting good frame data and mobility on a sword character is a recipe for a strong character. Marth and Lucina have since that moveset's debut had at least one of them in top tier due to the fact they have a solid disjoint and good mobility. Mythra has some trouble killing, but Pyra gives you such a rush of power it works.

I also love how XC2 got a lot of love in the challenger pack. I loved getting Torna music as well as a suite of great Xenoblade 2 songs. Cloud Sea of Alrest was a great stage pick, as it helps show off the world of XC2. The character models in the background are not completely garbage like with Byleth's pack. I guess I just got everything I was hoping for with XC2 representation. I wanted most of my favorite songs in, which I got. I wanted a fun character from a game I enjoyed, which I got. Heck, Xenogears and Xenosaga alt references was icing on the cake. I went in expecting an extremely awkward moveset with Rex and a stage as bad as Garreg Mach, while I got basically everything I could want.

Kazuya Mishima:ultkazuya: 90% Satisfaction

This was the one character for Smash Ultimate DLC that got in I would say I completely missed. After that Heihachi Mii costume, I thought Tekken was out of the running. I was championing Tekken before that as Namco's second rep, but once that happened I was skeptical, though I still threw some thought behind Lloyd being the final character. Come E3 and I was expecting Crash tbh, since I expected a big series to be the E3 reveal. Well, Tekken is a big series, with over 50 million units sold. Kazuya coming to Smash was a big deal, even if most of us were expecting Heihachi first because he is the face of the series, even if Kazuya is the main character.

Kazuya blends Tekken into smash very well. He is not the most mobile, and his aerial combat leaves some to be desired compared to say Terry and Ryu. But what do you get instead? Brutal footsies and raw power. Kazuya can quickly make a comeback off of any neutral win, devastating you with huge damage combos. To me, he is the best designed super heavy if you count him. His recovery while exploitable is not terrible, his pressure game is insane, and he has enough tools to not be completely helpless. I love his challenger pack too. Mishima Dojo is beautiful, and we got a lot of awesome Tekken music.

If auto turnaround didn't fry my brain and he was not a big brain character, he would be a 100%. Overall, amazing pick.

Sora :ultsora:100% Satisfaction

I always entertained the idea of Sora, but I was always a bit bullish on the idea. Disney is a scary company, what can I say? I also saw Sora hype starting to boil over right before the final character reveal, which seemed to be amplified by that one 4chan leak. I worried that the community would set themselves up for disappointment, similar to how everyone was expecting Master Chief at E3 especially after Verge came out of his bunker to throw support behind that idea. I expected something like Nahobino, Rean Schwarzer, or Monokuma. Some small third party that would get at best a Bayonetta reception.

I could not be happier to be wrong. Instead of getting a smaller third party or a shill pick, Ultimate ended on a big note with one of the biggest fan requests out there.

For starters, I am a huge Kingdom Hearts fan. Playing through Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2 and ReCOM in elementary and middle school was great. I loved the thrill of beating Sephiroth for the first time or finally getting out of Deep Jungle. The series has a special place in my heart. Yes, the writing is terrible sometimes. Yes, it can be mega cringe, but I do not care. I love the characters, Nomura does a great job at designing characters and Kingdom Hearts has a ton of well designed ones. I love the music, Utada makes killer songs for it and Yoko composes some of her best work for it. I love the gameplay...well I love KH2 FM+'s gameplay. KH1FM and KH3 ReMind are aight too I guess. But KH2 FM is one of my all time favorite games. I would go so far as to say it is one of if not the best hack and slash games of all time.

Sora himself, while dumb as a rock, is still a character I do love. I love how he goes from being this naive kid idiot hero to...Ok he still is a moron, but I do like how his heart is in the right place and he just tries to help out where he can. I like how KH3 handled the character as well tbh, it was one of the highlights of the game considering how complicated my feelings towards Kingdom Hearts 3 are. Is Sora my favorite KH character? No, he probably is not even in the top five. But I do love the scamp.

I’ll be honest, I never thought we would get Sora. I had this gut hunch that Sora would be this white whale of sorts for Smash Speculation. It seemed to me an impossible dream to get Disney to come to the table, especially with how controlling they could be. It would take a herculean effort to get them on board.

Seeing Sora in Smash with that reveal trailer was a dream come true. One last fan favorite to keep the flame from dying out. When the music swelled after the Keyblade shot its beam of light and Sora fell through the keyhole, I was almost in tears. No smash reveal outside of Joker made me this emotional. Seeing the love put into Sora's alts was a delight. I loved seeing the drive forms, his outfits from KH2 3 and DDD show up, and Timeless River made me beam like a school kid.

The music...ok this is my only complaint. We got a ton of KH1 music, and a KH2 song that was in KH1. I wish we got songs like Rage Awakened, Another Side Another Story, Hearts as One, Lord of the Castle, Vector to the Heavens, and Fate of the Unknown. The songs we got are fine...but I do with we got more music than just Kingdom Hearts 1. It legit screams to me that when Disney got the list of songs to license, they circled the first nine on the list.

Hollow Bastion though is amazing. This might be the best new stage in this game. I gushed about Mementos and Northern Cave, but this stage is amazing. The Rising Falls at the start is such a striking image. It invokes the nostalgia of finally reaching Maleficent's stronghold. Seeing the beautiful architechture of Hollow Bastion as you slowly float by is a great touch too. I expected if Sora ever got in, we would get either Dive into the Heart or Twilight Town. Instead, we get one of the prettiest looking stages possible and I love it. We even do get Dive Into the Heart on Last Stock, complete with showing off multiple Keyblade Wielders.

I also love Sora's moveset. The focus on aerial combat is a nice touch to feel at home with his home series. I like how he cycles through his magic. I love the fact he seems to be an edgeguarding pro, as edgeguarding is my favorite thing to do in this game. I love how he has a floaty double jump, doing double jump shenanigans with Mewtwo is super fun and I can't wait to do that wish Sora. He just seems like a ton of fun, and I can't wait to try and main him.

In spite of my complaints with Sora's music choices and the fact we did get the disney characters censored on Dive into the Heart, I can't complain too much. They did Sora as well as I could have hoped and more. While Joker still is my favorite reveal and character in this game, Sora is clearly a close second.


Fighter's Pass 2 :ultminmin:ultsteve::ultsephiroth::ultpyra::ultmythra::ultkazuya::ultsora:100% Satisfaction

What did you expect? Yeah, Min Min might not be my favorite, but I love every other pick we got. Sephiroth and Sora are some of my favorite smash reveals of all time. I love the Aegis and they are one of my mains. And seeing Steve and Kazuya in Smash just makes me happy. Overall, this pass was amazing. I am very happy with this and imo, this sets the bar super high for the next game's dlc, whenever that happens.
 
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DrifloonEmpire

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Aug 2, 2019
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:ultpyra: Pyra and Mythra :ultmythra:

Satisfaction: 40% -
It was no surprise that Xenoblade 2 was going to get representation and I had long accepted it, and like with ARMS it was good to see some vindication. Even if he wasn't the most interesting protagonist, he was still a nice guy, so it was sad to see him miss the cut again. But at least this time it was for an understandable reason, and he still gets to play a role (and it wasn't played for the same feel-bad angle Spring Man's disclusion was). Now, since we don't have Rex, how do these two stack up? Honestly.....eh. Their moveset isn't particularly inspired. I know Sakurai loves the game and did the best he could to get it implemented, but I can't say I'm a fan of their moveset, a lot of it feels very typical swordie. If we were able to have Rex he'd have plenty of cool moves at his disposal, along with a blade-switching mechanic to create a faithful recreation of how he plays in-game (the Driver mechanic is so central to the game, having it missing just doesn't feel right). Their stage is super cool, and Xenoblade 2 deserved more music than it got in base game! Spirits, though... We got another board with half of it recycled base game spirits (though Rex is now upgradable) when several important characters are still missing (Vandham, Dromarch, Brighid (as much as I really don't care for her), Dughall, Addam, etc). Spirits are quick and cheap, I doubt it would've been too difficult. Still, it's a very good and comprehensive Xenoblade 2 pack overall, and the music/stage takes priority. Now, a lot of you know me as very anti-JRPG in a lot of ways, but I've actually played this game! Well, half of it. While I liked several characters and had plenty to take away from it so far, I thought the story was a bit of a mess in some parts, and while I had no trouble picking up on the gameplay, I can't say I liked it enough to want to put another 50+ hours into it (in addition to the 50 I already put in). Still, having some inside knowledge of the game let me grade their pack on a more informed level, and while I'd say it's very good content-wise there are a few holes, and their moveset really drags the score down in my eyes.


:ultkazuya: Kazuya

Satisfaction: 70% -
As someone who's most wanted was a different Namco character this was definitely a big blow. However, I did warm up to Kazuya very quickly. While I'm a bit weary of the hyper-complexity fighting game character movesets typically bring, I'm fascinated with the high/low attacks system that was implemented, and I really like the stage! The stage cameo from Heihachi's an excellent nod, and both the fidelity of the environment and destructable terrain make for an awesome stage! I also like how Kazuya has projectiles to further set himself apart, and the stuff with the Devil Gene is super cool. It was also nice to see Namco finally get another character! Even if I wanted a more niche (but still known and ongiong) Namco character, I can completely see and respect why Kazuya was chosen. He has tons of history, does have a few Nintendo games, and, most importantly, is a big thank you to Harada for his work on two Smash entries. I can see why he was originally the last character, and I honestly would've been fine ending off on him! And I know a LOT of people wanted Lloyd to be the second Namco rep instead, and I get it! I love fan favorites! But the timing would've been very poor as well, is anyone really gunning for four consecutive JRPG reps?


:ultsora: Sora

Satisfaction: 60% -
As I think about it more, I have mixed feelings on Sora. On one hand, I was super happy that a general crowd-pleaser ended Ultimate on a high note, and that Nintendo was able to break the Disney barrier! Sora plays differently than the typical JRPG swordie and his magic looks super fun to boot! But when it comes to Sora, the Disney stuff is such a key element that to see it basically scrubbed out just feels...kinda empty. That was a big selling point for Sora in my eyes and I'm disappointed to see it not come to fruitition. Now, I get it, Disney would've probably charged an arm and a leg for more Disney characters, and I'll bet Sora was already expensive enough. Though Donald and Goofy should've at least been able to stay a part of that wheel thing with the character faces on it! The censored version just looks awkward... The stage is super cool background-wise! I love how it's the literal stage from the game, level objects and all! But the foreground is just the typical travelling platform that a lot of DLC stages have fallen to. I'm also kinda iffy on the ballot winner statements, considering they already burned us once with Bayonetta. Still, Sora's a monumental inclusion that was a fitting end for the most ambitious Smash ever!



Fighter's Pass 2 as a Whole

Satisfaction: 70% -
Didn't have the same low lows as the first pass which is a big plus! But I felt that in some ways it was much more predictable, and the extremely slow start to the pass didn't help matters. And of course, 50%+ of the pass going to JRPG characters (even if I played one of said characters' games) just made the fatigue worse. But Steve was an excellent inclusion, and Kazuya made for a wonderful thank you character to Namco, which helps balance things out. It did also bring some of my favorite costumes such as the Bethesda miis! But yeah, the pacing of the pass, along with a lack of genre balance makes it about the same as FP1 in my opinion. Still, at least there was no Fire Emblem shill pick this time! And there were still surprises! I mean who was expecting Steve?
 
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Sid-cada

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
1,646
I think my gut just churned something horrible at someone comparing the funny skeleton who drinks ketchup from the underground monster bunker to one of the few contenders of the most iconic video game villain of all time from the most beloved and iconic Final Fantasy of all time. I think I might get sick.
Dread it, run from it, an 8th grader called him something similar.


That tweet just stuck with me, and honestly I've been waiting to say it. Honestly, the whole thing made me laugh, as the more I thought about it, the more they kinda has a point.

Coming from probably one of the most famous and important RPGs to be released at its time? Check.

The true final boss that everyone knows? If you consider Genocide route the final thing a player does in Undertale, check.

Popularity eclipses most of the surrounding cast? Check.

Iconic music? A single note of Megalovania has become a meme, double check.

Iconic attacks? I'm not familiar enough with Final Fantasy to say anything about Sepheroth, but the Gaster Blasters are definitely there.

Forces the protagonist to confront unsavory facts about themselves? Even that's a check, though they do it in different ways.

I could go on, but I think I made my point.
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
2,577
Iconic attacks? I'm not familiar enough with Final Fantasy to say anything about Sepheroth, but the Gaster Blasters are definitely there.
Yeah, Sephiroth has that in Hell's Gate which he uses to kill Aerith and his Ultimate attack, Supernova is pretty well known.
 

2006ToyotaTacoma

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
270
Location
Aboard the Ark of Yamato
arms was the 19th best selling switch game at the time. and the game was 3 years old at the time. to call it a dead franchise it just unfair
I'd debate but I agree that we should take it to another thread or something. We got new characters to rate fellas

bUt I tHoUgHt I wAs gOnNa bE iN sMaSh
I don't really care about Xenoblade as a series, and I didn't really care about a Xenoblade 2 rep getting in. That said though, I did feel like XC2 was done dirty come base game and when Pyra/Mythra were announced I was happy for their fans. The trailer itself though was just meh overall. It's one of those "cutscene" trailers that feel like it was ripped out of their games, and I can see how some people possibly mistook it for a XC2 expansion or sequel but I instantly knew by the "Not actual gameplay footage" disclaimer lol. Overall their trailer was pretty boring and drawn out, and probably my least favorite of the FP2 trailers.

The moveset's not my cup of tea. Not really a fan of true swordies and all. That said, God are they an absolute hell to fight, especially with Pyra players constantly spamming Blazing End and Prominence Revolt, and with Mythra basically feeling like they gave Fox a sword. Not a fan.

Stage is neat, I like how they basically made Gramps a stage and remember all the memes about his possible Battlefield/Omega forms. Good times. The stage itself is absolutely beautiful as well, and there are a ton of neat details. Overall a pretty neat stage.

Xenoblade 2 music slaps, especially the XC2 medley. Not much else to say here.

While an alright pack with good music and stage, it still remains my 2nd least favorite pack out of the bunch tbh. Not bad, but just a middle of the road pack.

:ultpyra::ultmythra:
Satisfaction Score: 50%


Family Issues: the Franchise
Coming into Ultimate, Heihachi was one of my Most Wanted characters, and come the start of FP2 with Heihachi's Mii Costume, I was bummed out that Tekken was gonna miss the train again. Queue Nintendo's Presentation at E3 2021: I was going in with the expectations for a commonly speculated character, like Crash, Chief, Jonesy or Hayabusa. Imagine my child-like excitement when I see someone carrying Ganondorf towards a pit of lava, knowing TEKKEN WAS FINALLY IN BAYBEE. Kazuya wasn't Heihachi, but dammit I'd be absolutely lying if I said I wasn't absolutely hyped for his inclusion.


Good lord the MOVESET. While one of the most complex in the entire game, it was still something I was able to understand real fast, and once you do, JESUS H JOSEPH AND MARY THIS IS THE MOST FUN I'VE HAD IN SMASH FOR YEARS. It's so satisfying to land Kazuya's combos and hard hitting Smash attacks, enough so that Kazuya did the impossible in my eyes: He dethroned Snake as my new main. 10/10 Kazuya's the king baybee.

The stage is also great. While it is pretty simple in terms of it's layout, it's visually incredible and the GOOD OL' KARATE GRANDPA HEIHACHI MISHIMA IS HERE INSTANT 10/10 GOTTA LOVE HEIHACHI.

Regarding music, Heat Haze Shadow. I refuse to elaborate any further.

Kazuya hits quite literally every single mark, and is by far my favorite newcomer in all of Ultimate. Also his 4th alt is basically the closest we're getting to Kiryu in Smash for the time being so yeah:


:ultkazuya:Satisfaction Score: 100% (AKA:
KAZUYA MISHIMA W I N S
)


Something Something Darkness and Light (That's Kingdom Hearts Lore in a nutshell right?)

I wasn't really big on Sora in Smash. Never had any interest or history in the franchise, but I knew a lot of people who grew up with it so I was welcome to their inclusion, even if it was an inclusion I thought wasn't possible. Oh boy was I wrong. Sora's reveal is easily one of the top 3 trailers in Ultimate (Sakurai painted him as like the 2nd coming of Christ or something lmao) and while I still wasn't actively hyped for him. I could easily respect his inclusion and would honestly say he was one of, if not the objectively best character to end off Ultimate, thanks in part to his overwhelming fan demand and yet also being a character no one thought would make it. Over time, I've grown more fond of Sora's inclusion and am definitely looking forward to his release!

I can't really judge him moveset wise given he isn't out for another couple of days, but from what I've seen idk if he's my cup of tea. Not a big fan of super floaty characters, but he seems like a character I'd try out.

The stage, while pretty simple in layout, is beautiful without doubt, and I love the final stock change of scenery they got going on with his stage. Overall, an A+ when it comes to the stage.

The music's..... alright I guess. KH music slaps and I do wish we got more of it, but it's totally understandable considering they were dealing with Disney of all entities. The music we did get overall is pretty nice.

Overall, a pretty solid way to end Ultimate! Hopefully we can do a rerate once Sora's released but overall, not bad!

:ultsora:
Satisfaction Score: 80% (for now....)

Overall Satisfaction Score: 70%

Just 3% lower than FP1, but still an absolutely solid pass, and a good way to end off Ultimate as a whole! Loved a solid 2/3rd's of the inclusions, meh on one, and disappointed by one. I do wish we got a bit more genre variety in the pass, but still a solid end to the DLC.
 

Depressed Gengar

Hana Is Best Girl
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Messages
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The Johto Region
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Fighter Pass 2 part 2. How funny.

Pyra/ Mythra:
Wow, this is a very weird one. For the most part... they're not great. For starters, oh joy, transformations. A gimmick that should've never been a thing, because at best, they're pointless, because very rarely do people bother switching to the other character unless they're forced to. I'll give some credit here though, this is the most justifiable use of transformations yet. It would be kinda weird to not have Pyra and Mythra. Not THAT weird, but still a little weird. Meanwhile, Shiek and ZSS are irrelevant forms that were basically just slapped onto their relevant forms, and having Pokémon Trainer representation would've been done way better as an Assist Trophy than a playable character anyways.

That said, playing Pyra casually on her own has surprisingly been fairly fun. Don't know how, it just has. So hey, there's that.

Pyra/ Mythra satisfaction: 20%

Kazuya:
The fourth time I have to say that fighting game characters should not be translated so literally into SSB, because it just doesn't work well. Thankfully though, it's also the last time.

Kazuya satisfaction: 30%

Sora:
Obviously this one is hard to truly judge because he's not out yet, but his moveset seems decent enough, and it's nice that Ultimate ended on a high note with a super requested character. Don't personally care though, so eh.

Sora satisfaction: 55%

Fighter Pass 2:
I said it before, Pass 2 was much better than Pass 1. There's still not really anything I'm happy over, but at least there's multiple huge deal characters like Steve, Sephiroth, and Sora as opposed to just having Hero for Pass 1's huge third party, and there's not two sour spots like Pass 1 either, even if Pyra and Mythra kinda teeter close to that.

Fighter Pass 2 satisfaction: 40%
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
9,949
I promised I'd be back to rate Sora so here I am! Hope everyone's been doing great.

It's crazy to think it's been 10 days since his reveal. It still doesn't feel real, like I don't think I'll be able to fully process it until he comes out and I have him on my Switch. But, this also means I had 10 days to think of why I reacted the way I did (crying, mainly). If you know me you know I don't really have a most wanted or a list of most wanted; I just want too many characters to be able to make one. I knew Sora was one of them, but I was surprised by how much I wanted him in retrospect. I took a moment to figure out why, and I think it boils down to two of my greatest loves.

Part 1: I love videogames
Wow GoodGrief, you're telling me that a guy on a forum for a videogame that's a crossover for other videogames... likes videogames? Yeah, okay, I know, not really a huge revelation, but let me tell the story alright? Funnily enough, it begins with Brawl. I first played Brawl at some other kid's house (might have been a relative or the kid of a friend of my mom's, can't remember). I only knew Pikachu and Mario and Sonic and maybe Link, but what drew me in was the disparity in artstyles - I still remember how striking it was to see Marth and Meta Knight in the same shot, two characters that felt like they shouldn't be together but somehow were. I had my own Wii already, it was the first console (or major purchase, really) that I had bought with my own money, so I was already pretty attached to it, but Brawl became basically the only game I played. I spent hours 100%ing it, replaying SSE, farming CDs and stickers and wasting coins on Coin Launcher. And what I found fascinated me: I found a whole history that I'd never known about. The trophies, which told you what game, console, and year a character had debuted in; Masterpieces, which let you play snippets of old games that were all new to a child of the 2000s; Chronicle, a huge list of so, so many games. All that served to teach me that videogames were way older than I would have thought, and that there were many more, big and small, influential and obscure, that I could have ever found out. I obsessively researched videogames, trying to learn everything about any game I could find, get the whole picture, all through the lens of "what characters could be in the next Smash?". It wasn't perfect (for the longest time I thought Marth, Ike and Pit were all from one franchise - darn anime pretty boys) but it put me on my way. Eventually, I discovered emulation. Now, for some context: my country isn't... the greatest place to live. I'm one of the lucky ones, I was never poor or anything, but many things people take for granted elsewhere are prohibitively expensive here, and gaming's one of those. Piracy's a way of life here, you could go to the mall and just buy bootleg PS2 games, so I didn't know there was anything wrong with it. So when you have a kid with a lot of free time, a love for videogames, an inability to buy new ones, and give him the tool of emulation... that's a lotta doors opening up. I played every game you can imagine between the third and sixth generations this way, which is something I take pride in. After playing Final Fantasies 1 through 12 (skipping 11), a weird little game called Kingdom Hearts fell into my lap. Well, "fell into my lap" isn't really accurate, I sought it out because you can't research videogames without hearing about KH. And it was really cool! The Disney characters were whatever, I didn't have much of an attachment to any (aside from my homeboy Pooh), but the rest was epic! Spiky-haired anime guys in Hot Topic duds are any preteen's definition of coolness, that's just a fact. And Cloud and Sephiroth and Squall were there! Obviously I really loved crossovers, Smash got me into gaming after all, so it was all right up my alley. I struggled with the combat (my deepest secret: I'm not actually good at games, just very persistent) but I had a lot of fun. And then I played the rest of the series (up to Birth by Sleep at that time) and I came out a fan of KH (even if I couldn't explain the plot to save my life). But then my love for it kinda trailed off. I guess starting high school played a part; this game with Goofy and Donald running around was starting to seem like kid's stuff, I guess. I bought Dream Drop Distance when I was 13 and even though it's one of the best in the series imo, I didn't finish it.

Part 2: I love Disney
When I was 16, Zootopia came out. I didn't watch animated movies at the time because dumb teenager prejudices, but I had been to Disney World that summer and I'd been shown a sneak preview (the sloth scene) that I thought was hilarious so I thought, what the hell. I ended up seeing it in theaters twice, once with family and once with friends. It's beautifully animated, with a great story and characters, funny dialogue, and it had a major influence in my beliefs. It's still my favorite movie. Like everything I love, I wanted to know everything there was to know about Zootopia: how it was made, what inspired it, all that jazz. 16-year old me learned that not all animated movies were made by Pixar (I must be coming off like a real dumbass now, huh?) And so I discovered the Disney canon, a 50-movie+ lineage that started in freaking 1937. Remember how finding out that videogames dated back to the 80s made me want to know everything that went down in those ~30 years? Well, it happened again. Long-story short, I became a fan of all things Disney (and eventually just a film buff in general because I don't know when to stop). After marathoning the animated canon, I remembered Kingdom Hearts, and I decided to replay 1 and 2, maybe it'd be a different experience. Spoiler alert: it was a different experience. Having watched the movies that inspired the worlds made the adventure all the more meaningful. Now I was Sora, getting to meet my animated heroes and fight alongside them. I could appreciate the care and effort put into the recreations of the worlds and all the references. I was all in this time: I replayed the rest of the games, finished Dream Drop Distance, skipped A Fragmentary Passage because I'm not paying all that for a glorified demo, and then rode the hype train all the way to KHIII's release. Add two years and here we are now.

So what's my answer? Why did Sora in Smash mean so much to me? I guess because it's an intersection of so many things that meant so much to me or that served as gateways to some of my biggest passions in life. In a way, I wasn't explaining my relationship to Kingdom Hearts so much as I was telling my life story, and it just so happens that KH is a touchstone that I kept returning to. It's not alone in that category (I'm studying criminal law, you think there's a game that might've had something to do with that?) but it is still very special and it's kinda crazy that I hadn't realized it.

So there it is, my satisfaction is 100%. Maybe that could change because of the gameplay but honestly it looked super fun in the presentation so I doubt that'd change anything. Plus even if we waited until after the 18th to rate him, I wouldn't be able to try it out because of my CTS so the score would be the same for me.

I was planning to give my satisfaction score for Vol 2, but honestly I think it's more fitting to leave it at this. To get into the minutiae of why I liked this aspect or disliked that aspect of each character... I dunno, I feel like what's above is a more fitting bookend to my time on this site. I hope it wasn't overlong or cringy or pretentious or anything but if it was... welp, that's life I guess. I'm glad Sora's in Smash, and I'm glad I could realize why, and I'm glad I had the courage to share it. With this, I bid you all farewell. For realsies this time!
 

Laniv

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
1,428
I've Found A Brand New Best Friend (And It's Me) :ultpyra::ultmythra:

Satisfaction: 50%

This is the first Smash reveal where I couldn't think of anything to say about them beyond "well, I saw that coming". I've never played Xenoblade 2, and they're not even the Xenoblade character(s) I wanted. Sorry, Elma. Maybe next time.


Kazuya Kiryu, the Dragon of Mishima :ultkazuya:

Satisfaction: 60%

He's not Jin or Klonoa 2/10 :4pacman:

But in all seriousness, he, like the Aegis, is not the Tekken character I wanted, but I can understand why it's him. His moveset is, to be honest, intimidating to me (uncrouching attack?!) but he looks fun. The music is cool, too. However, I gotta take off some points for having the lamest trailer of FP2.

Key To My Heart :ultsora:

Satisfaction: 100%

I was going to just post that Jotaro Kujo "YES YES YES" gif, but I think Sora deserves something more. I've played exactly one Kingdom Hearts game ever (the first one) and I still haven't finished it. But dang it, the little Cloud Jr. in big ol' clown shoes really speaks to me. You're smacking monsters around with a giant key. What's not to like? And of course, it's another Square-Enix tied character that knocks it out of the park with their trailer.

Also Scherzo di Notte is in and I am forever thankful for that


The Whole Shebang 2: The Final Nine Yards

Satisfaction: 75%

All my favorite characters in this pass are the ones whose names start with S. Everyone else is... there I guess. But it's not a bad end to Smash Ultimate's DLC.
 

DaUsername

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 6, 2013
Messages
675
Location
In that corner over there
NNID
DaUsername
Switch FC
SW-1418-0536-1998
:ultminmin: 65%
Somehow she's the best first party DLC newcomer.
I, for one, am glad she was picked over Generic Boxart Man. However, I don't really play as her in Smash that often, and I'm not a fan of her stage.
The music is good, though.
:ultsteve:: 0%
I know he didn't prevent Banjo from getting in, but that doesn't matter. I'm upset that all the people who made animations of Steve murdering Banjo finally got their reward. Yes, Minecraft is massively successful, but when even Sakurai himself basically admitted he didn't want to add this character, you know it's a bad inclusion. The only reason he made it in is because Nintendo basically forced him to.
I pretty much agree with my past self on this one.
:ultsephiroth:: 64%
Okay, let's be honest here. The main reason he's in this game is because Square wouldn't let them have any FF7 content in the base game. I mean, he did bring some cool stuff with him like his stage and full version of Advent One-Winged Angel, so I can't complain too much.
 

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
15,032
Location
Scotland
I pretty much agree with my past self on this one.
and why does your past self think sakurai was forced?

Okay, let's be honest here. The main reason he's in this game is because Square wouldn't let them have any FF7 content in the base game. I mean, he did bring some cool stuff with him like his stage and full version of Advent One-Winged Angel, so I can't complain too much.
well you can hardly call it being honest when there 0% proof of that
 

YoshiandToad

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
6,550
Location
Still up Peach's dress.
:ultpyra::ultmythra:: 65%
Boy howdy, there sure are a lot of swords in Smash. Byleth's trailer lampshaded that ****, but then we got Steve who uses a sword sometimes and Sephiroth who is essentially 90% sword so how the heck do we top that?

By having our next characters actually be anime swords. Smash is getting way too meta.

Anyway that musing aside, I just finished Xenoblade 2's story(watched it, didn't play) a few weeks prior to their reveal. I like Pyra a lot and Mythra is...also here I guess. I figure I'd probably use Pyra more than Mythra anyway.

Once again I have yet to play as these girls, but I'm not against them. I thought they were a decent pick for the last first party position....even if I really wish they weren't the last first parties we got in Ultimate.

Much like Springman, Chrom and Toad before him, I had to feel bad for Rex being forced into the moveset of another which dampens their enjoyment a little.

:ultkazuya:: 30%
Tekken is a big deal but I constantly forget Kazuya is even here. Probably the fighter I forget most if I'm honest. I'm not huge on his moveset and Tekken was always my least favourite of Namco's additional properties even though I acknowledge it absolutely deserves a fighter.

:ultsora:: 78%
Fond memories of the original Kingdom Hearts and the reveal trailer being weirdly emotional bolster Sora somewhat. I kinda wish we could have gotten more Disney or Heartless as those were the only things I enjoyed most about the franchise and all the additional OCs outside Sora, Riku and Kairi are my least favourite aspect. Sora's score is dampened mostly by the sheer amount of swordsman in the pass and the lack of Donald Duck and Goofy making him feel like a slightly incomplete version of himself.

Pass 2 feelings overall: 60%...maybe?

Banjo and Byleth were higher personal highs for me, but this pass had far less low lows overall. Still didn't purchase it, but if I did pick up any characters I'd at least consider Steve and Sora.
 

Phoenix Douchebag

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 19, 2020
Messages
1,045
Location
ZE BATH
After 2 characters i was neutral about and ONE character that i couldn't care less about, can FP2 redeem itself? Let's find out.

What's in the Hentai Folder? Why do people still ask me? It's Hentai dude, what do you expect?

This is an interesting one to me. While i wasn't against Rex, i had mixed feelings about him, his design wasn't bad, but something was lost in the artstyle transition from Xeno 1 to 2 (this is most noticeable once you compare the art-styles from the Wii version to the Switch version, the Switch version looks objectively better in graphics and characters like Fiora and Melia no longer give me nausea for how ugly they look, but the 2D art-pieces lost some flair) and him being MCBasic didn't help in a roster that had more and more JRPG protags that were in similar archetype to him, plus Xenoblade 2 is seen as contentious in some parts due to certain character designs (Monolith Soft has always been horny on Main, Sharla's costumes are an example of that, but the character designs of some blades in 2 are bad, not because they are sexualized, but they fail to convey the sex appeal they are supposed to tap into, it's like a Horror Monster that fails to be scary) and other stuff like the story not beign to par with the first, but i say too much of that due to me not playing Xeno 2 yet, but when it comes to Aegis themselves................well............

I'm not gonna sugar coat it, Pyra and Mythra are HOT (mostly Mythra, because i am a sucker for Pretty Blondes), you can burn me at the stake for saying it, and keep in mind i don't like Bayo's design at all, i find it akward (and also her costume is just hair) but i adore Mythra's design, no shame here. But enough of judging a character based on appearance alone, because i know Aegis means a lot to many people as an actual character (even if Mythra gives me "this female character is cool is because she is a obnoxious mean ***** character" vibes that i mentioned before with the likes of Vidri). Xeno 2 WAS the introduction to many new fans as Xeno 1 was hard to come by and Xeno X was a Wii U game so it already had a low install base to worry about, and Xeno 2 meanwhile came as one of the earliest new JRPGS for the Switch, similar to Golden Sun on GBA.

I must admit, looking back, i really, REALLY, REALLY regret not buying Xeno 2 when i had the chance. I saw multiple copies of Xeno 2 multiple times (some of them being packed in ALONGSIDE The Golden Country) and as the dumbass that i am i never bought it because it wasn't on my priority list. It wasn't until i bought Xeno 1: Definitive Edition, that i regret not playing this series sooner, that game blew me away in every single way possible, great story, unique battle system, and the cast was great, Shulk, Dunban, Fiora, Sharla, Riki, Melia, Penisoffspring, and most important of all: REYN TIME BABY!

So its fair to say that i now am a Xenoblade fan, at least of 1, and i must find a way to get into 2 (which is hard because the game now is apparently out of print, dammit) though Xeno 2 has BIG shoes to fill, and from what i have seen of the cast none of them are as charming as Dunban or NOW IT'S REYN TIME.

I haven't bought Pyra and Mythra yet (due to outsider factors i haven't bought either of them yet), but i already have far more interest in playing as them as the rest of FP2 based on how Simple and Easy they seem to pick and play. No stupid resource managin, and none of the **** that the character below does. That's how Smash movesets should be in my eyes. They feel more like a stance character than Zelda and Shiek ever felt, and having 2 characters for the price of one in this pass is neat. I'm just happy that outside of the transformation down b, they have no absurd gimmicks attached to them, that's how i like my characters. Probably the only FP2 character i really, really want to buy.


But i must admit, their trailer sucked, it felt mean spirited to Rex, imagine if Shulk was looking for Fiora all this time, and he finds her and she's all like "Hey Shulk guess what? I'm in Smash and you are not invited! BTW i'm a robot now!" That's not funny, if i was Rex i would have dumped her right there and there and went to do my own business.

Also, any trailer that has the characters speaking during gameplay in these trailers suck. Palutena, Robin, Corrin, Joker, Byleth and this one are among the lower ends of trailers for me. They are the most boring because they focus too much on the interaction of characters, and when you don't know the source material these trailers are more alienating than hype, which means they fail at introducing the characters. Could you imagine if Sora's trailer was all about Darkness this and Light that with his friends interrupting the gameplay? Yeah it would suck. When it comes to Smash trailers, SHOW, don't tell.

But i rate the character itself and not just the trailer, and i would rather have good character and a ****ty reveal over a God-like reveal and a lame character.

70% Satisfaction.

How to Kill my E3 Hype

Yeah, my least favorite of this Pass, probably my least favorite DLC character in this game period, well second least favorite at the very least. Still better than PP due to him beign a character, but.........let me explain.

You see, the Reason i play Smash Brothers, and the reason this series exists in the first damn place, is for those who don't really play Fighting games a lot to enjoy the core idea of a fighting re-imagining into a more beginner friendly franchise that still has its own depth.

I don't play Fighting Games a lot, while i can play a round of KoF and SF, i can do quarter circles, im far too casual to have any major investment in these games, especially the really hardcore ones where if yoo are a newbie, you aren't going to have fun. I enjoy DBFZ, but i could tell it was far more casual than any Guilty Gear game, and i was okay with that. I don't give any two ****s about most "Anime Fighters" (which is used for games like Guilty Gear and Blazblue, i didn't invent the term) anyway, simply because i find their mechanics to be obtuse and just not worth getting into.

But if there's one fighting game franchise i honestly have no interest, is Tekken. Tekken's gameplay is basically the whole antithesis of Smash, it is as complex and complicated as it gets, and the only franchise i can think of that tops or is in equal level is Virtua Fighter. Tekken drops the whole quarter circle stuff and instead goes for using each attack button as a limb, and therefore makes making combos extremely demanding of the player.

And of course, Sakurai decided to implement that system as close as it can to Smash, which i'm not gonna lie, that is pretty ****ing stupid. Smash's entire purpose was to be the friendly alternative to all those though Fighters lacking all the complicated stuff. To add Kazuya's Tekken mechanics into Smash is dumb by principle in my eyes. It's like if you added a character in Mario Kart that drove like it was from ****ING FORZA, or if you watched a YAOI/YURI anime and complained "WHERE ALL THE DEM STRAIGHT GUYS/GIRLS AT?!", it beats the entire point of Smash beign made for those who enjoy simple games. It's already bad enough that a lot of Smash 4 characters have these pointless gimmicks that clutter the gameplay, and Ultimate's DLC is not helping matters here.

It bothers me that Sakurai is all like "people shouldn't play Melee that way, this isn't how you are supposed to play the game!" NO SAKURAI, THIS is how you are NOT supposed to play the game. You might as well add Melee Fox with his ****ing jumpsquat lasers and 1-frame Shine **** and all the Melee mechanics into Ultimate as DLC, that's how it feels to me. "Oh but Tekken is intentionally complicated, that's what makes it different!" Yeah, intentionally dumb. I don't even like Melee's competitive fans, yet i feel this is kinda like a double standard to me.

I don't hate Tekken. It has its fans, it has a market, but i don't think Tekken fans would be happy if a character that used Smash Bros controls and Mechanics came into their game and played nothing like it. I must admit i look like an hypocrite because you could argue Steve suffers from a very similar issue, and yeah, you are right, i overrated Steve based on his merit as a character alone, because i can tell i would not play him at all.

Well there's another reason why i hate Kazuya in Smash and that has to do with his reveal, it may sound petty, but this is Smashboards:

Back in 2019, when Heihachi was brought back with Min-Min's pack, so it made me hopeful for a Tales Rep. Anime Sword Syndrome aside, Tales gameplay was just the right fit for Smash, i played Vesperia and it felt like a 1 to 1 transition, those are the types of characters and franchises i want in Smash, it makes transitioning extremely easy for me and i love straightforward movesets, but instead i get MR. Comlicated Fighting game and brings the Lloyd costume back with good measure. Imagine if Lloyd came back in 2019 alongside Banjo, and on E3 2019, Yuri Lowell gets confirmed and Heihachi is nothing but a Mii Costume again after false hopes for Tekken fans. He literally killed my E3 2021 hype, and the only things that avoided me from being dissapointed were WarioWare GiT, Metroid Dread, and Advance Wars.

So that's another reason i hate Kazuya, for essentially raising my hopes up and bringing them down, but honestly that is a veeery small reason, and wouldn't make me hate him alone if it wasn't by that he is a character that literally doesn't want to make me play Smash, not playing as him, and from what i have seen of him, DEFINETLY not against him, i rather burn in the Hell of 8 Ness players burning me with PK Fire, i rather have get sliced to pieces by every Sword User in Smash, i rather be playing as a DIXIE ECHO, than to play this ****ing demon.

At the end of the day, his mechanics are the reason i rate him so low. I thought Ryu was already too much with his Pressure-Sensitive Normals (which originate from Street Fighter 1, even though SF1 sucks ass, and later revisions would convert the game to use the traditional 6-Button layout which has been the norm in literally almost all fighting games nowadays, thank god Sakurai is not behind Mario Party otherwise we would have those horrible Rotating the Analog Stick Minigames from 1 as a tradition) but NOW i have to deal with Kazuya's nonsense like "Up-Foward Tilt?" "Down-Back Tilt?" "Double Dash Attack?" No, just no.

Im really happy that i didn't brought Fighter Pass 2, otherwise it would have been a waste of Money.

0% Satisfaction.

Say fellas, did someone mention the Door to Darkness?

This is it. 3 Years, over 5 years of development, 6 Smash games, and it all comes down to this.

First up, let's look back at what i had to say to them back in 2019:
I said:
Is Kairi single?

Chance: 3%
Like Diddy Kong was seen as a Rare character before the Rare Buyout, Sora is in Spirit (heh) a Square character. He has all the hallmarks of one, and as such i don't see him as likely after Hero got in as the Major Square DLC ambassador. However, he is actually owned by Disney. That.......actually makes things worse.

Look, Sakurai has dealt with Square Enix (TWICE) and Konami, but we are not talking about Disney Interactive here (R.I.P) we are talking about The Walt Disney Company, a large powerful entity and one of the largest media companies on the planet (if companies had a tier list, Disney MUST be nerfed immediately) so i don't see Disney beign as friendly to Sakurai as Capcom, Konami, Sega, Square or even potential collaborators like Activision, Bathesda, Koei Tecmo and Level 5 because those are gaming companies that understand the power, influence, legacy and honor Nintendo and Masahiro Sakurai hold in their hands. Disney however, may see them as "beneath them", and therefore may not take them as seriously.

......then again Disney had no issue with Thanos Default Dancing in Fortnite and those Mickey Mouse games on the Genesis Mini (you know? Mickey Mouse? their most protected character?) so maybe they may be willing to play ball. Of course if FF and DQ are any indication, KH's representation will be limited, so no Mickey, Donald, Goody, Pluto, hell maybe not even Riku, Kairi (awwww.....) Roxas, Namine (godammit) ect, as spirits. Then there's the possibility of Haley Joel Osment not represing Sora due to him possibly beign a union voice actor, so we may have to stick to Sora beign full weeb on this one.

This is either a "multiple companies have to come to a mutual agreement" situation, or a "a large company that is VERY hard to deal with" situation.

Want: 25%

I enjoy Kindom Hearts......well the one 3DS game that i actually played and beat. I do not enjoy the convoluted plot (IS THERE ANY OTHER XEHANORT I SHOULD KNOW ABOUT?!) that hinders the characters and game for the most part, but it reminds of a time when i saw Disney as this company full of charming animated movies like Emperor's New Groove and the Sword and the Stone and cartoons like Duck Tales and Recess as opposed to beign this massive pc entity that is nothing but the Killer Queen of companies (destroys any franchise that it touches but im not gonna go into detail because that is its own massive can of worms) full of morons and asshats that make ****ty Live Action adaptations and at the rate they are going there are gonna be more ****ty Live Actions than there are Xehanorts, but im getting off track here.

However, while i do prefer Sora to some of the other potential 3rd Parties (inlcuding those already in Smash like Bayo and Joker) im not full into him to be hyped. He would be like Cloud, where the fact that he is in the game is more hype than the attachment i have towards the character.

Plus, im weary of Dinsey even approaching Smash in any form or capacity. Sora is the ONLY thing i would be okay coming from Disney.

The other part of the reason as to why this rating is so low is because after FF and presumably DQ, i would not be excited for KH in Smash if they are gonna be so thin in terms of content. Like i know Shimomura is a Ult Composer, but Uematsu composed Brawl's theme and yet they could not bother to at least give us One Winged Angel, so im not im expecting a lot of music from KH should it come to Smash. At least with Geno all i care is about the playable character, while for Sora it would be disappointing if they cheaped out in all the other areas.

I would rather have a character who i have more of a personal attachment with, and one whose representation would be allowed to be much larger (as in, Mega Man or Castlevania levels of large, that would be sweet as ****)
Like many, i didn't saw him as likely after Hero's reveal (and ESPECIALLY after Seph's reveal) it just didn't seemed feasible to me. Me and KH have a weird history. The first game i ever played was Chain of Memories on PS2, i didn't had a Memory Card so i never got far beyond Traverse Town, and yet i kinda found it fun. I loved Kingdom Hearts in concept. Yeah FF characters being here was weird, but like most kids i loved Disney's animated canon films. The Sword and the Stone, Pinocchio, 3 Caballeros, Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan, Jungle Book, Little Mermaid, Lion King, Hercules, Emperor's New Groove, Brother Bear, Treasure Planet, Meet the Robinsons, Princess and the Frog, Tangled and Wreck It Ralph, all of these movies were GREAT. Like many people here, people don't love Disney, the Company, but the characters and franchises that they own, and seeing them be introduced in this game series is great. If i was huge KH fan, you can bet your ass i would have EXPLODED when Toy Story and Monsters Inc were confirmed as KH3 worlds, those 2 are my favorite Pixar films.

The only reason i'm not a big KH fan is because i never got the chance to play most of them. While CotM was the first game i ever played, KHDDD for the 3DS was the first KH game i ever owned, played and beat. I distinctly remember buying it for my birthday, and i popped that ****** in the 3DS. and the intro was great. That orchestral version of Simple and Clean is the SAME one they used for Sora's trailer, so it was fitting, it reminds me of that Wonderful World of Disney Intro that played on Disney Channel. I loved how Mickey was playing an orchestra in the lower part of the 3DS dual screen and jumped into action into the upper screen, little things from the DS/3DS era that are not a thing anymore sadly. The game while different from 1 and 2 in mechanics felt like a far better introduction to the series as a whole and what to expect than CotM's wierd card based gameplay, and while i would have preferred Quasimodo, Neku, Shiki, and Mickey as companions, i liked the Dream Eaters, they were fun companions and i felt rewarded when i got new abilities thanks to spending time with them. I was honestly SHOCKED to see the Mickey and the 3 Mousekeeters get a world of all things, i loved that movie as a Kid so to see it get its own world was a ****ing treat. The only complaints i had with that game is that i do think at least ONE more Disney world would have been nice instead of going back to Traverse Town, the Story being as complicated as expected (also Time Travel because **** you) i know if play all the games it will make more sense, but i still think these plot twist and threads are too complex for a Disney game (its not that i can't take this story seriously, i can take a bunch of Ninja Reptiles and a drunken Horse seriously, it's just that i don't think it should have been this complicated to explain). Flowmotion was also a great mechanic in this game, makes me wish Deep Jungle was in this game instead of KH1 as i feel it would have been a FAR more fitting world here due to the ability to wall climb, grind on rails, and swing much more easily.

There are things i don't like about KH in general, i still think the addition of FF characters feels superfluous and i don't like how they ignore any FF character that comes before 7 (except Setzer) and wish other Square franchises also made cameos like a Kefka or Magus Superboss, that the story has said earlier is too convoluted and Nomura should have hired a writer that was more fitting for the job (he is a designer, not a writer) and poor, poor Kairi, i thought Grant Danasty and the KoF US Sports Team got cucked too hard in their home origins, but Kairi's only time to shine was in a DLC, and a ****ing Rhythm Game, that is just sad. Shame because she has such a cute character design and felt she would have be fun to play as seeing how much liked playing as Riku in DDD, i guess only Aqua is allowed to have any sort of Spotlight.

As for Sora himself, i do like his upbeat demeanor. After so many obnoxiously edgy main characters nowadays, Sora's friendly demeanor is a breath of fresh air, with his only flaw that the seems to suffer the same Flanderization **** that happened to Goku in Super (MUH MANGA ACCURACY cried the apologists) and made him dumber. His design, while still being that of a JRPG hero with a blade/sword, evokes a sense of whimsical cartoony vibe similar to that of Mickey Mouse and other Cartoon characters of the same cloth as him, and in the context of Smash, that is a very, VERY welcome aspect (even more so with his Timeless River design, im a sucker for Old-School Cartoon designs and Monochrome color schemes, thanks to the Mirage TMNT, i appreciate Black and White as an art design choice, and not as a limitation of the past) i would still have preffered a outright cartoony character like Crash or Rayman, but this was welcome after the likes of Joker and Kazuya who felt out of place in Smash, while Sora's Disney charm (with his trailer having him fly like Peter Pan) made it feel right at home with most of Nintendo characters, since Disney's movies and shows are a very influential and have also influenced some Nintendo franchises (that and Fleischer)

I'm also happy for his moveset being Simple and Clean, no absurd mechanics, no resource managing, just bringing the feel and the moves into Smash's environment, the way it should be.

I also admit part of the reason im happy with him is because it made up for all the wait for the last character. I was FIRMLY on the "Last character is gonna be lowkey", that "Smash always ends on a down note" and that "Characters like Sora and Crash make sense during the middle of the Pass". I couldn't have been more wrong.

I distinctly remember hearing about that leak, and PapaGeno's videos on it, the arguments he gave felt like grasping at straws...........yet i believed them. For some reason i WAS entertaining the idea of Sora in Smash despite both Hero and Sephorth being in Smash, despite Disney being Disney, and despite the general track record of last Smash reveals being on the lower end...............and Sora made it. When the last reveal stream went live, i went out of my way to not get spoiled, i rarely do that since i usually like hearing about leaks, and most unexpected picks are always on my least favorite list (WFT, Bayonetta, Sephiroth, Joker, PP) so i expected to see dissapointment as the way to end Smash Ultiamte, and seeing how FP2 it wasn't gonna be a shocker to me.

................and then, the flame of the Smash Logo started to vanish, and then everyone became a Trophy (is it Tabuu?), then suddenly a small fire appeared on the ground (Dark Souls?) and then Mario slowly approached that fire (Cinderace?)...........then Mario for some godforsaken reason threw the fire, and then..................the Mickey Symbol showed up, it was a Keyblade. I felt emotion, POSITIVE emotion, and emotion for a Smash reveal i didn't felt since Banjo's reveal in 2019, over 2 years. This was great.

Sora is Finally Here. For a second the cynical old me dissipated, and felt that hype again. A sense of excitement that i haven't felt for most of this DLC. Not for Terry, not for Hero, not for Pyra and Mythra, certaintly not for Joker, but for Sora. It was good to see that excitement in my heart again.

Objectively speaking, i think Sora was the best reveal to end Ultimate on. That hand-shake is the stuff of legend. Keep in mind i'm no a hardcore KH fan, and i still believe there really wasn't any other reveal that would have been this great. I felt back in Smash 4 that Sakurai wanted Bayonetta to be the big finale of the game, but she was too niche to really do such a thing, especially after the likes of Ryu and Cloud, plus being announced alonsgide Corrin left a sour taste in many people's mouths. Sora? no, THIS is the big deal, this was a great send-off for Ultimate, and for as much whining and smack talking i have done, it was a great way to say goodbye to my favorite Smash game of all.

So with all that said, my final rating for the final character is:

65% Satisfaction.

.....what? that's it? I praise Sora as the second coming of Jesus and i rate him lower than the likes of Terry, Banjo and Aegis?

Well you see, there is one reason i didn't give Sora a higher rating, and this isn't because he got over a character i would have preferred, it's a far bigger issue.

You see, Sakurai in that showcase also announced we were getting the KH series on Switch. THAT was such good news!, i can play as Sora in the Toilet and the Car and the Park while i go to fight Heartless in Agrahbah and Space Paranoids!, i can play KH1 and 2 back to back, i can enjoy the story without having to buy Multiple Systems! i can.............wait.....






.............................Cloud version?

Yeah, that killed a LOT of my hype. I mentioned before that i hate Joker's inclusion because his most popular game of origin REFUSED to come to Swtich while his Spin-Offs were brought into Nintendo systems. I still play Smash on Nintendo, and i hate it when a Third Party gets in Smash and refuses to bring their game of origins into Nintendo Platforms, im not gonna buy a PS4/XBOX one just because Third MCParty got into Smash, that is ridiculous, this is an expensive hobby. I hate Cloud gaming, i don't like being always Online in a game that isn't even Online-based, and i certainlty HATE the current trend of games going digital only, the day Gaming becomes Digital Only is the day i Pack My Stuff, say Arrivederchi and look for another hobby.

If Sora's games were ported into the Switch with the same care Dragon Quest XI had when it came to the Switch, i would have given Sora the highest rating out of all the DLC characters, even more so than Banjo, maybe even a 100% since this would mean he has more games on Switch than most Nintendo characters on the roster.........................but no, Square had to chicken out and put the bare minimum effort..................AGAIN.

Honestly Sora feels like a reverse Hero. Hero in Smash kinda sucks but him bringing his games into the Switch inlcuding his most recent one made me fond of him very quickly. Sora seems far more fun in Smash but i can't give a character like this any higher rating with such half-assed garbage ports. Crash 4 is on Switch and runs fine, Doom 2016 is on Switch and looks mostly fine. I can understand if they have difficulties porting KH3 since that was a 2019 PS4 game but KH1 and 2?, that is just incompetence, no other words.

It's also extremely frustrating because i would LOVE to play more Kingdom Hearts, i liked DDD so i am more than ready to binge more KH goodness, and yet it feels like Square doesn't want me to. I wanted some convenience, and i got a slap to the face.

So yeah, even with such huge reveal, i still gotta give the higher edge to Kairi and Namine................err i mean, Pyra and Mythra.


Like last time, i can't give FP2 a rating. But as you can see, i consider FP2 FAR, FAR worse in most aspects. Compared to the 3 characters i liked, 1 i didn't care about and 1 i hated, FP2 gives me 2 characters that i hate, 2 that i liked, and 2 that im mostly neutral about, and considering FP2 didn't fixed my complaint of DLC in Smash beign too Third Party centric (none of the third parties in FP2 outside of Sora i find interesting), i consider it a downgrade from the first, even with the Aegis and Sora in here. The lesson of the day is, NEVER buy Fighter Passes, until you know what content it holds. and knowing is Half the Battle!

Also in general, im dissapointed that with the exception of Banjo, none of the Third Parties as DLC are from platformers, that is one of my favorite Smash genres, and the aesthetic of Crash and Rayman would have been very welcome. I like JRPGs so the inclusions of Aegis, Sora, and Hero didn't affect me (honestly i would have preffered Lloyd over Kazuya) much, but i can see why it would affect othres.
 
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Golden Icarus

Smash Lord
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Pyra/Mythra:ultpyra::ultmythra:: 85%

I was excited to rate these characters for a very specific reason - they are better than Byleth in every way. Turns out it is entirely possible to add a first party JRPG swordfighter that doesn't end up with 90K dislikes on YouTube. Here we have two characters with actual personalities, a playstyle that is much more inspired and original, who came from a game that is more than a year old and aren't the eighth representative of their relatively small series. That is how you shill a character.

I did not enjoy Xenoblade 2. I'll get that out of the way. I played it for about 4 hours and decided that I would much rather be doing something else. However, I played through both Xeno 1 and X and absolutely loved those games, so I definitely have an appreciation for the series. I would have greatly preferred Elma for many reasons, but adding a Xenoblade 2 character just made more sense...and thank goodness it wasn't Rex. Okay listen, I don't mean to trash on the Rex fans out there, but I was not excited for him to be added. Yeah he isn't your average silent protag or anything, but he still doesn't exactly have the most interesting personality and his character design is just...hoo boy.

It's really cool to see Sakurai add a JRPG character who isn't just the main protagonist! I've wanted this many times in the past. Like, we already have Marth and Ness, so why not start getting creative! I would have vastly preferred Masked Man over Lucas, Azura over Corrin, Edelgard over Byleth. Hell, while I love Ike, it would have been really cool to have Micaiah or Black Knight in retrospect. By adding Pyra instead of Rex, it feels like we're getting way more personality and variety than we would have had with Rex and Shulk as our Xeno reps. If Fire Emblem was taking this direction from the start, then I guarantee that people would be much more excited to see more FE characters in Smash.

And they're just really fun! I was hesitant to see yet another transforming character in Smash, as it feels like it's just straight up better to have the characters separated (as we saw with Zelda/Sheik and Samus/ZSS). But 4th time's the charm I guess, as these are definitely the best transforming characters yet. They're similar, yet it's easy to understand what makes them contrast. I like these ladies a lot.
Kazuya:ultkazuya:: 99%

Hands down the most surprising DLC character, probably second to Joker. I never really considered the possibility of Persona in Smash; I didn't feel that it was unlikely, but rather, I just never gave the idea any thought. The difference here is that I felt that Tekken was straight up out of the running after Heihachi's Mii costume. Not only did we already have a Tekken Mii in the game, but it was literally sold to us in the same Fighters Pass. If a Tekken character was coming to Smash, they absolutely would have sold the Heihachi Mii costume with them.

What a great time to be wrong. As the Fighters Pass was narrowing down, I remember speculation getting pretty stale. Names like Crash, Hayabusa, Cinderace, Nahobino and Master Chief dominated the conversation, while a lot of characters were written off for a variety of reasons. Kazuya was so left field for me that I was just in shock as he was being revealed. It's hard to explain, but I felt like I was in a different timeline all of the sudden.

Anyway, I could keep rambling about how much this surprised me, but let’s talk about the character himself...he's ****ing awesome. I like Tekken, but I'm not crazy about it. I definitely appreciate it for what it is and absolutely feel that it deserved its spot in Smash. And I just love how Sakurai went about Kazuya's moveset. He is slow and clunky, but has an option for literally everything. Heaven's Door, Wind God Fist, Gates of Hell, there are so many moves that feel amazing to land.

I'm docking just 1% for Kazuya not being Heihachi. I've always loved the "old man" archetype in fighting games. Heihachi, Shang Tsung, Gouken, Master Roshi. Something about an elderly man fighting as if they're in their prime is just really cool. Heihachi is one of my favorite examples of this archetype, so I was really hoping that he would be our first "old man" in Smash. I get why they chose Kazuya, as the devil stuff is really cool and he likely has more of a future with the series...but still, I gotta poor one out for Heihachi.
Sora:ultsora:: 100%
I'll repost this from a week ago, as my thoughts haven't really changed much lol
Satisfaction: 100%

Literally all I wanted was to see Sakurai do his thing one last time, whether we got one of my personal favorites like Isaac, a big blow out like Master Chief, or a Nintendo shill like Cinderace. Sakurai has proven time and time again that he will put his heart and soul into every character he adds and I had complete faith that he would deliver once again for CP11.

But what we got was way beyond my expectations…

When that trailer started and all of the fighters were staring at the flaming logo…I knew that this was gonna be special. This wasn’t just any fighter who just so happened to be the finale, but rather, this was a character specifically intended to close things off from the start. The tension was so real. My mind immediately went to Tabuu - the trophies, all the fighters together, rounding off Smash with a Smash character, etc. and while that’s not something I would personally hope for, it would be a fitting finale.

The trailer continued very slowly, as my mind raced at lighting speed. Master Chief? Sora? Crash? Dark Souls!? Then that damn Mickey Mouse logo appeared…holy **** they did it.

When I say that I had the goofiest smile on my face and full body chills for an entire minute, I am not kidding. I’ve never even played Kingdom Hearts! But with a build-up like that, any character would have been glorious. Then Sakurai clarified that yes, this was indeed the most requested Smash character ever.

That beautiful reveal, coupled with the fact that Sora is such an amazing crowd pleaser already makes this the best finale that you could possibly ask for. He could play like ****, have a bland and boring stage, and absolutely zero music tracks and would still be a mind-blowing addition to Smash.

But he actually looks really fun! I have absolutely no problem with the excessively unique characters that we’ve gotten. I like how Min Min feels as though she was plucked straight out of ARMS, I like that Kazuya comes with five hundred attacks, I like that Steve both mines and crafts. However, making Sora a relatively simple character was absolutely the right call. Kingdom Hearts has incredibly broad casual appeal, so making Sora easily accessible was really smart. He has an effective recovery, a straight forward counter, and a fun little projectile that comes with its own unique gimmick. I’m sure that he’ll be really popular and I’m personally very excited to try him out!

On top of that, the music is great and the stage is magnificent.

One of the reasons I was never super into the idea of Sora is because of all the Disney mumbo jumbo. I’ve heard many KH fans claim that Sora could easily come without any Disney references and others claim that you need the Disney references to do him justice. I wasn’t sure who to believe, but I know that I’m personally not into the idea of having a bunch of Mickey Mouse characters in Smash. I like Disney characters as much as the next guy, but the moment Donald Duck appears in a Smash game, is the moment the Goku requests increase by 10000%. I am very happy that Sakurai chose to leave out all of those Disney character, sticking to his guns by only allowing video game originated characters in Smash. Again, I’m not a KH fan, but I feel that Sora and the surrounding content that came alongside him is more than enough to justify his inclusion, even though we’re missing half of what makes KH special.

Oh yeah the alt costumes! Easily one of the best sets of alts in the entire game. I love the variety of renders, and the Steamboat Willie lookin’ alt is * chef’s kiss. *

Yeah I’m over the moon with this inclusion. Super happy for all the KH fans out there and so so so happy that Sakurai was able to not only stick the landing with Ultimate, but also end things off with a bang. Best game. Best man. #ThankYouSakurai

Maybe I should play Kingdom Hearts…
I will add that I've finally started playing Kingdom Hearts and I'm really enjoying it! A friend of mine, who isn't even all that into video games, is a huge Kingdom Hearts fan and was dying to play the games again after Sora's announcement. We've been playing through KH1 together and it's been so fun. My friend isn't all that expressive, but I can tell that Kingdom Hearts has a pretty profound affect on him. It's really cool to see.

I also want to add just how happy I am for Sora fans. Obviously, he was the most requested ballot character, so theoretically this was probably the reveal that made the highest number of people happy. On top of that, the Sora fans that I know personally are just really chill people and it's cool to see them get what they want, as I can tell they were genuinely not expecting it. It kind of reminds me of Ridley...Ridley fans used to get so much **** just for wanting a character. "He's too big! Sakurai already said he's impossible. You must be really stupid if you think he could be in Smash." People were nasty. And honestly, I saw Sora fans deal with a lot of the same crap. "You know Disney would never let him in right? What are you like twelve years old? No one wants stupid Disney bull**** in Smash." I know that every character gets this kind of hate, but it seemed pretty excessive with Sora. I'm just really happy to see Sora fans vindicated. Y'all showed up to the ballot, and Sakurai heard your request. You earned this.

Overall FP2 Satisfaction: 100%
Remember when a lot of people thought that Seph and Steve would be our only "big" characters in this pass? How everyone thought that the final three would likely just be Nintendo shills and minor third parties? Lol

I like this pass. A lot. To reiterate, we got the greatest villain in all of gaming, representation of the most successful video game of all time and the most requested character of all time. That should seal the deal right there. But on top of that, we got a playable rep for one of Nintendo's new IPs, a really cool "stance fighter" and mother****ing Tekken. Almost every character was surprising and we got a good mix of experimental playstyles and really nice conventional movesets. None of the characters feel "undeserving" and I feel like all six characters offer a pretty nice variety. I don't know what more there is to say that I didn't cover in the character write-ups. This was just an exceptional batch of DLC.
------
Okay I do have some additional thoughts about the DLC as a whole, but this is gonna be a lot of rambly tangents that don't apply to any character specifically. I'll spoiler this because I've made you read enough lol
Third-parties If you look at Smash just a decade ago, nobody was predicting that there would be this many third-parties in the future. Brawl gave us Sonic and Snake, and Smash 4 gave us Mega Man and Pac-Man. It was a really rare occurrence. Smash 4's DLC opened up the doors a bit and Ultimate's DLC just blew the doors wide open. FP1 and 2 literally doubled the amount of unique third party characters in Smash. It took me a moment to process that this was the direction Smash was going in, but I think I like it. There are still plenty of great first parties who could be added (Isaac is literally my most wanted), but overall, I feel like third parties just bring a lot more to the table. Turning Smash from a celebration of Nintendo into a celebration of gaming is awesome and I have no doubt that it's part of the reason Ultimate has seen so much success. There are loads of people out there who never had any interest in Smash until Snake was added, or Cloud, or Steve, etc.

PlayStation All-Stars This is weird, but I love it. The fact that Smash has some of the greatest Sony all-stars is insane. I know that this bothers some people who feel that Smash should still have a "Nintendo history" focus, even with third parties. But man, it's really cool that the people who grew up with PlayStation get to have some of their own characters in this Nintendo fighting game. Again, there are a lot of people who didn't give a **** about Smash, but now that Sephiroth and Kazuya and Joker and Sora are here, suddenly they're invested. That is epic.

JRPG Swordfighters Probably the most valid criticism of both the Fighters Passes. Having three of the five FP1 characters come from JRPGs is one thing, but then adding three more JRPG swordfighters in FP2 is just...yeah I can see why this is frustrating for a lot of people. Individually, I feel like all of the JRPG characters they added without blue hair definitely deserved it. Sora, Sephiroth and Hero are three of the most impactful characters in the entire DLC. Pyra and Joker are pretty great too...but there's definitely a reason people have slowly soured on Joker's inclusion. At the time it was awesome to see him added, but five JRPG characters later and suddenly it feels like Persona was a relatively lackluster addition.

A lot of people say that the DLC was just Sakurai "catching up" on all the JRPG characters, and I can kinda get that logic. Overall, there aren't that many JRPG characters on the roster, it's just that a whole lotta them just happened to be added very recently. Oh I've also seen people question all of the fighting game characters added, which...yeah wow I can't believe we got three fighting game characters as DLC. But 3/11 is way easier to swallow than 6/11...though yeah that only leaves two slots for characters who aren't from either of those genres. Yikes. But yeah, more fighting game characters was definitely justified. With all the DLC it still only brings our total number of fg characters to 5/89, which is super reasonable considering Smash is literally a fighting game.
 
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DanganZilla5

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Pyra/Mythra - 85%

I'll quote an essay I did a couple weeks ago for the Aegis girls. I'll also attach my Xenoblade 2/Torna essay below for more context.

Here it is: My essay on Pyra/Mythra. Enjoy!

Before Pythra’s reveal, I hadn’t touched a single Xenoblade game. My biggest connection to the games outside of Smash was me watching a Twitch streamer play the first couple chapters of Xenoblade 1, which was a long time ago. So I had an idea of what the series was about but it just never interested me as I was never big on RPGs, at least until recently. So I never bothered to play a single title from this series.

But that changed in February. Fun fact, I knew so little about Xenoblade that I didn’t even know that Pyra and Mythra can fight on their own without Rex, so you can imagine my shock when Pyra was announced….without Rex. I was flabbergasted, but other than that I didn’t feel much towards the characters or the trailer itself as again, I knew jack nothing about Xenoblade. But with me, whenever a new Smash character gets revealed I get curious and try out their game. This started with me with Joker and it happened again with Hero, Min Min, and Sephiroth. And so, in order to understand why so many people were bouncing up and down at the Aegis’ inclusion and because I wanted to join in on the hype, I got Xenoblade 2 the day after the duo’s reveal.

Now, looking back, that was kind of risky but I have had a habit of blind buying games and for the most part that rarely has backfired on me. So I had no idea what was in store for me. I had no idea that I was about to play one of my absolute favorite games of all time and the game that emotionally impacted me the most out of anything in any entertainment medium.

Note that I will be omitting any details to avoid spoilers. Anyway I started playing the game and it had a promising start. Kind of slow, but that didn’t bother me, plus the ending of Chapter 1 had some fantastic moments. Then I went through the motions exploring Gormott which was jaw dropping with that music (And encountering the big funny monkey for the first time). Chapter 3 was great and the ending was absolutely amazing. Then Chapter 4 hit and kind of slowed things down for a bit but then Chapter 5 arrives and things start to get really interesting. Then with Chapter 6 **** escalate even more and it ends in a way that is equivalent to a gut punch. I was hooked on it at that point. Now with Chapter 7, oh man that is filled with some of the best moments in the whole game and the cutscene that introduces Coffee With Milk is my favorite cutscene of all time. It’s so emotional and made my jaw drop. That was the moment when I fell in love with this game. And it just got better with the next 3 chapters which ramps up in intensity.

Then the ending, omg the ending. It left me an emotional wreck for hours. I beat the game at midnight but couldn’t fall asleep until 3 AM. It’s one of my favorite endings of all time and to put it into perspective, I beat the game all the way back in April and to this day I still ponder about the ending from time to time. And in general I think about Xenoblade 2 just about everyday. I’m utterly obsessed with the game. I ended up getting the art book, physical soundtrack, and a poster. And I’ll be picking up the Pyra/Mythra Amiibos whenever they become available.

I just love everything about this game man. If you told me that this game will contain one of my favorite casts of characters ever, I probably would not have believed you, judging from the early hours of the game. But by the end I ended up getting emotionally attached to almost all the main characters. This game also has one of my top favorite soundtracks, easily top 3 at least. The battle themes are so good you can jam out to them, the area themes are awe-inspiring and some are even bangers (Looking at you Mor Ardain and Tantal), and some songs make me want to cry my eyes out.

And that brings me to Smash. I’m so happy that Xenoblade 2 got the content that it deserves. I will say that there are some things that bother me like the fact that we got zero Xenoblade DLC costumes. Also, there were some weird choices with the music. Counterattack got a remix which was completely unnecessary and while I like it, it’s inferior to the original so why even bother? Tantal got included with the medley but I wish you could listen to it on its own since it’s a banger. And while the music choices are great overall, there are still some glaring omissions like Monster Surprised You, Power of Jin, and After Despair and Hope. I also want to point out how they got lazy and put in a color to represent Pyra’s disguise outfit instead of actually putting in the costume which looks adorable on her. Finally, it’s a shame that the driver and blade system couldn’t be implemented. But considering the fact that Smash often follows the rule of including the most recent protagonist, this was a now or never opportunity for Xenoblade 2.

But overall, I’m happy with the content we did get. I have my gripes but I still think they did a good job on the pack overall. And I’m eternally grateful to Smash Ultimate for introducing me to a game I cherish so much. To think that I wouldn’t have gotten into Xenoblade at all if it wasn’t for Smash. It’s funny how things work out huh?

So yeah, Pythra are my favorite DLC characters alongside Steve. It’s difficult to say which one tops which for me since I do have more of a history with Minecraft but it doesn’t change the fact that I care a lot about Xenoblade 2.

If you want to learn more about my thoughts on XC2 and Torna, check out my essay attached below.
One thing I didn't talk about was their stage. Cloud Sea of Alrest is not only a unique stage based on the premise, but it's a great one in general. You get to see all of the major titans which makes for beautiful scenery. This is one of the few stages where I like to sometimes go into training mode to just sit back and take it in. Despite Alrest being a dying world, it's still pretty looking and some of the titans like Uraya are so majestic. And I enjoy all of the details of Rex's house. Definitely one of my favorite stages.

______________________________________

I was disappointed in Sakurai not making a joke about "healthy family relationships" - 85%

Tekken was completely unexpected. I really thought it was done for after Heihachi's costume but something tells me it was a move pulled by Harada since he does trick people by using things like leak bait. So he probably asked Sakurai to move the Heihachi costume around. Very clever.

Anyway, Tekken is a based pick. It's not my favorite fighting game (I'm more of a Soul Calibur guy) but it is one of the most celebrated fighting games in the world so it getting a character was a big deal. I really dig Tekken for its bat***** crazy premise, wacky characters, music that is full of personality, and combat that feels satisfying due to the meaty sound effects and cool visual flair. Tekken 7 in particular is one of the cooler fighting games I've played, it feels and looks great. So how well did it transition over to Smash?

Well I'd say quite well. Now off the bat I will say that I barely use Ryu, Ken and Terry because I cannot pull off combos with them to save my life. So I was worried that with Kazuya it would be the same thing and I wouldn't have fun with him. But the difference between him and the other fighting game characters is that he is fun to play even without doing combos. First, his attacks are ultra satisfying to land. When you hit someone with his smash attack it gives off a sound effect akin to hitting someone with a hammer. holy **** it sounds painful, like as if you are really hitting someone with iron fists. Not only that but you have his down b where you sumo slam your enemy, crushing them into the ground. That, and you can pull off combos without really pulling them off. His 10 hit combo feels nice to fully connect, even if it's just simply holding or mashing A. I also dig his tilts. His attack where you press between up and forward which makes him do a couple flying kicks is very powerful. I use it all the time to get KOs. I also love how you can crouch then tip toe towards someone and then sucker punch them into the stratosphere. His kit just flows naturally so even if I can't pull off combos, I can still do some neat things with him which is awesome. Basically, he is fun to play as casually, and his moveset is one of my favorites of the DLC.

Moving onto the music, I dig it. Like with Terry there is a lot of variety and a lot of bangers. Some of my favorites are Chicago, U.S.A, Opening Movie, Heihachi Mishima the King of Iron Fist, and Karma. I also dig the stage. It has a similar mechanic to KOF Stadium where you can crash enemies through the wall which is epic. I like the vibe of the stage and I've had a lot of fun on it. And I enjoy Kazuya's alts and the spirit board is nice and about what I expected.

Now, there are just a few gripes I have with Kazuya. The big one is while I enjoy the devil attacks, I think I still would have preferred Heihachi as I find him much more entertaining of a character. Kazuya by himself is kind of plain compared to the other characters like an assassin wife and a god dam bear. I also wish we got at least one or two Mii costumes. I understand his wave was meant for fan favorites but couldn't they have at least thrown in a Kuma costume? Plus I wish there were more cameos on the stage beyond just Heihachi. And in general I would have preferred Nightmare as our Bamco fighting game character.

But other than those, I'm really happy with Kazuya. Tekken is a badass series that deserved a spot on the roster. Kazuya is so much fun to play and he brought with him a great challenger pack. Oh yeah, and his reveal trailer was funny.

_______________________________

Sora - 90%

It has been over a week since he was announced and I still don't think I fully processed him yet. I was half expecting an underwhelming finale, either a Pokemon or Rean Schwarzer. So I was blown away. God man, that reveal trailer was perfect. I was blown away and even got emotional. And I'm not even that big on Kingdom Hearts so I can't imagine how magical his reveal must have been for the longtime KH fans. The fact that we got a hype finale for once, combined with Sora being the winner of the ballot, made for the perfect ending to the greatest crossover of all time. It's truly magical.

I can't wait to try him out. He looks sick and I like character that have good recovery options so that way I don't have a panic attack offstage. He is exactly how I imagined him to be. having an aerial-heavy moveset and those jump animations.....those animations man. It looks like they straight up ripped him right out of KH and into Smash. And I love his magic attacks, I can see myself having a lot of fun with them.

The stage looks neat, don't have much to say. Now for the music, this is where I'm slightly disappointed. I understand that just getting Sora in must have been uber expensive, but I'm sad that Simple and Clean didn't make it in. Now I've heard that the rights to that song are apparently hard to get since to my knowledge it's not available on multiple KH soundtrack releases. But we couldn't even get Traverse Town music? Also I hope that eventually that 10th song will be available for individual purchase since I don't want to buy a game that I don't care about (at least not yet) just to complete the music library.

But what else can I say? Sora is just hype all around and I'm happy with him and for his fans.

___________________________________

Overall Pass Satisfaction - 90%

This pass has been very good to me. It gave me Min Min, a character whose game helped me get into fighting game, whose moveset is fun to me and who brought a bunch of bangers. This pass gave me Steve, one of my most wanted characters and my most wanted stage. This pass has Sephiroth, one of the coolest characters on the roster and who had a top tier trailer. This pass introduced me to Xenoblade 2, which is a game that I adore to bits. This pass gave me Kazuya, who is super fun to play as and has a really solid challenger pack. And this pass has Sora, who has cemented Smash Ultimate as the greatest crossover ever made.

FP2 blew me away. The only thing I can say is that if they had switched Kazuya with Nightmare, and Sora with Crash (As much as I like Sora, I like Crash better), this would be the closest thing to a perfect pass as possible without straight up giving me 6 of my most wanted. It gave the two first party games that missed out on the base game boat a second chance, and it introduced/built upon 4 great third party series. They really knocked it out of the park.
 

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fogbadge

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not an awful lot of shielding for an ageis
0% this was just awful. when you get right down to it they were just my second least favourite characters among the main cast. if we had to have someone other than the protag there were so many better options from nia who has the best character to morag who just kicks but at every turn to zeke the best character in the game with hilarious misfortune. or if we had to have a blade why not the polite white tiger of the second hald of the hilarious zeke double act. but alas it had to be the mcguffin sisters because of reasons that were arbitrary at best. ok so the mechanic you had planned didnt work but the same thing happened with diddy and you let him in. and when i asked why rex had to have this mechanic some people out there were more than "happy" to give me an explanation which was the equivalent to saying if the hero of winds cant control the winds then he shouldnt be in smash. and when i keep seeing persona fans saying that joker is missing some key things from his character this reasoning loses even more water. basically every reason i ever got for this, from the fans i remind you not sakurai, dont stand up to scrutiny. sakurai told us that what he had planned didnt work and that was fair enough but he never told us why it had to be that way or no way so its hard for me not to see this as a touch more of his inconsistency. see aymui and marth. when explanations comes from the fans rather than the makers something's gone wrong somewhere. especially when those fans deliberately ignore things that might disprove their thread of logic. so between the fact that theyre not the best characters and we only got a half explanation as to why no rex these will just remain another bitter example of what could have been.

half naked half demon
0% eh dont play tekken so this was underwhelming. not to mention he had the most boring reveal of all he was just chucking guys off a cliff like he was tidying up after sephiroth's trailer. nothing else to say really.

not the sharpest keyblade among the guardians
100% i love kingdom hearts. its right up there with zelda, pokemon and mario as one of my most favourite game series. the two greatest crossovers in gaming are crossing over. all we need now is layton vs wright. sora in smash has been something i wanted to see for a long even briefly entertaining the idea in the brawl days and imaging what itd be like to see him on the dojo. and now its happened. its so awesome. plus a whole stage with yoko shimomura music? yes please. best dlc character and best 3rd party character.

pass as a whole well according to that calculator i googled 4 out of 11 is roughly 36% so we'll go with that

i also want to say 100% satifaction for today's ac direct. i know its not something we're rating but i wanted to say it anyway.
wait hang on FP2 as a whole not both together. Rated the wrong thing. Change that 36% to 50%
 
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Sari

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:ultpyra::ultmythra:
Satisfaction: 75%
This is a really interesting one for me to rate, as I haven't had as many mixed thoughts on a character's inclusion until now.

So just some background: I absolutely adored Xenoblade 2 even with its flaws. Despite being a typical Shonen protagonist, I thought Rex was an alright character by the end of the game. I loved Xenoblade 2's gameplay and wanted to see it get some proper representation, so Rex was one of my top 5 most wanted characters during FP2. When I saw the Argentum Trade Guild floating in the Cloud Sea during the Nintendo Direct, I went crazy and popped off.

...Then I saw Pyra get the invite and I just thought... "huh?" It was nice to see such a great game get the representation it deserved, but at the same time... "what?" As silly as it may sound, I was sort of miffed that poor Rex got the Spring Man treatment.

Regarding Pyra/Mythra's moveset, I think it's... ok. The gimmick of Pyra being stronger and Mythra being weaker but faster is neat, though I feel like they could've done much more with their moves. Mythra's neutral B in particular feels like a glorified forward Smash that should've had more power and range. Also Mythra's Final Smash (Sacred Arrow) really should've been a stage-wide attack similar to PK-Starstorm. It'd standout more from Pyra's final smash, be more true to Xenoblade 2, and give the player more options. So while Pyra/Mythra are far from bad characters, I feel like they're just good ones and not much more.

And that right there is the biggest issue I have with Pyra/Mythra. They're just... good. They're far from the worst newcomers in Ultimate, but they're one of the most disappointing to me personally. I feel like there was just so much more potential the Xenoblade 2 rep could've had if Rex/Pyra (& Mythra) were the character in the end. Passive buffs depending on your distance to your blade, combo attacks alongside your blade, having to protect Pyra from getting hurt to represent the fact that the two are life-linked, blade-switching to Mythra for additional effects, etc. While I do think the blade switching aspect was done alright, I feel like Xenoblade 2 never got to see its true potential in Smash. The initial disappointment hurt even more since this pass also had Steve and Kazuya, two characters who had a ton of love put into their in-depth movesets.

As for their alternate colors, wow what a letdown. Xenoblade 2 has a ton of colorful and unique characters to base Pyra/Mythra's alt colors on. But instead we get "Gold/Silver colors!" and "Pyra/Mythra but with brighter colors!" I know that some of them can be viewed as Xenogear/Xenosaga references, though I don't know if that was the intention since Sakurai made no reference to those games at all while showcasing the alts. Regardless, none of their colors appeal out to me. It's a real shame too because I was really hoping for a Morag/Brighid colored alt.

Yes I know I sound like the most ungrateful **** ever after wanting Xenoblade 2 in Smash so much and then complaining about how it was actually represented. But I'm not all that ungrateful as I still think they're fine inclusions. Their moveset could be better sure, but I still have fun playing as them. The music selection for Xenoblade 2 is also great, with Roaming the Wastes being one of my most wanted music tracks. I also love the stage as I feel like showing off the Cloud Sea and its many locations is the most fitting stage for Xenoblade 2.

So overall, while I would've much preferred Rex with Pyra/Mythra assisting him, I think they did a good job with what they could given the limitations of the Switch.


:ultkazuya:
Satisfaction: 70%
Not much to say here other than I think that Kazuya is a solid inclusion. Tekken was definitely the most deserving fighting game franchise to get a character that wasn't already represented. I never really got into the Tekken series to be more hyped for it, but he's still cool to have.


:ultsora:
Satisfaction: 75%
We rated Sora just a few days before his reveal, during which I gave him a 1% want. The small percent was only because I wanted his fans to be happy but otherwise I didn't really care for the character himself.

When I saw his reveal, I wasn't hyped, nor was I disappointed. If I had to put it in one word it would be: glad. This was a character who had a lot going against him and one that I would usually see get dunked on online. I can't speak for Sora fans since I wasn't one at the time of his reveal, but I think it's safe to say that seeing him actually make it into Smash was a dream come true.

After seeing the Sakurai showcase, I think he looks great in Smash. The rotating spell move is cool and his side-B + aerial combos look fun. I also really love the alt costumes he got which are my favorite out of all of Ultimate's newcomers aside from Hero.

I've also been interested in giving the series a shot now. Shame that we're only getting the Cloud versions of the games though as I would be completely down for buying physical copies of them. Honestly I'm not sure why I haven't bothered with the series before as I love Disney movies.

With having the all-time most requested vote appear as the final character, I can't think of a better ending for Ultimate.


Fighter Pass 2
Satisfaction: 65%
Sephiroth was great, Steve was meh, and the rest were alright. Could've been far worse but still an ok pass. I definitely preferred FP1 more though.

might hang on FP2 as a whole not both together. Rated the wrong thing. Change that 36% to 50%
Can you please try to limit one-off posts like these? I've noticed this has been a trend with you for a very long time in this thread, with a recent example being when you questioned BowserKing's use of the word worthy on the Inkling day.

In this case, you can just edit your original post since I won't be doing calcs until around Sunday night.

And speaking of calcs, I think I'll be posting all of the FP2 calcs on Monday morning, just so everyone can see how each FP2 character compares to each other all at once.
 
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SneakyLink

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Two sides of the Story Aegis:
Pyra/Mythra: 75%

The Xenoblade duo is someone I wasn't expecting, but a welcome surprise. I prefer Pyra's power over Mythra's speed, but both play fine. Stage is alright though I do feel sorry for Gramps as he now has to deal with a bunch of fighters on top of him.

Off the cliff:
Kazuya: 15%

Tekken is a game I tried once and never wanted to play again. Kazuya's gameplay is way too confusing for me and the stage isn't that good in my opinion. Music wise is saved by Yodeling, which is one of my personal favorite songs.

I'm gonna hold off on Sora and the overall pass 2 until release.
 

Strider_Bond00J

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:ultpyra::ultmythra: "This... is the power of the Aegis!"
A very pleasant and welcome addition. I love the Xenoblade series since the first game and always semi-advocated for Rex to join the fight. Though he certainly ended up in the Chrom-Smash 4 boat of being utterly humiliated - the Mii Costume and no real major Xenoblade 2 content outside of spirits and a few songs. Just like ARMS had seen earlier, what with Spring Man getting shafted.

The Aegis-Duo as the opening act for the first real Nintendo Direct of the year was a very pleasant and welcome surprise. I was uncertain what to expect initially, but surprised that it was Pyra chosen instead of Rex. Even more so that she's a transforming duo character with Mythra and the two have such great synergy with each other. Mythra as the fast and speedy damage dealer and Pyra with the heavyhitting punishes or smashes, so you can play them however you like. You can choose to prefer one of them over the other or swap them out as always main one of them.

Pyra/Mythra are great additions if you ask me. The Cloud Sea of Alrest is a nice trip through the world of XB2 and we've plenty of new Xenoblade songs added, especially ZEKE'S THEME. I'd probably say they're 2nd or 3rd place as my favourite DLC newcomers for Fighters Pass 2. Also can't forget the cheeky nod to the fan-favourite meme "THINK YOU CAN TAKE ME?!" "DON'T FORGET ME!"
Edit: Whoops, forgot to include a satisfaction score: I'd say Pyra/Mythra get a solid 90% satisfaction for me.

:ultkazuya:"GET READY FOR THE NEXT BATTLE"
Kazuya... weird for me personally. I do like Tekken to some extent, but I can barely play it outside of button mashing, or the guests like Akuma, Geese or Noctis in Tekken 7. I also prefer 2D fighting games like Street Fighter, MK, Guilty Gear or Under Night In-Birth, so I don't really have too much of a fondness for Tekken. So waking up to see that the E3 2021 fighter was Kazuya was underwhelming initially since I didn't see it live. Sleep was the priority. Seeing him in motion actually got me more interested, but now we're in super uncharted and uncomfortable waters with only 1 fighter left. Oh no...

Come more details about Kazuya, I've actually warmed up to him (Not to mention I love the remix of Kazuya Mishima, Devil Kazuya - probably the best song included in his bundle alongside Yodeling in Meadow Hill) since they somehow managed to give Kazuya his dictionary-worthy moveset from Tekken all in Smash's confines. Splitting the Specials to use the Devil Gene powers was a smart move and certainly adds a level of power to him. Also don't forget about his Lvl 9 CPU. That thing is like a boss fight, so sometimes I just try to 1v1 him for "Objective: SURVIVE" He plays well and hits super hard, but maybe a bit too hard (Looking at you, left-splits kick, being somehow the most ridiculous reflector in the game for some inexplicable reason) I still prefer Terry the most of all the fighting game guests we have so far.

Though what soured me on Kazuya despite all that... was the reveal that Dante was Mii'd. GODDAMIT. It's a good thing I ran out of speculation fuel and already ran out of sadness/anger points in June for a multitude of reasons - Kiryu Coco's graduation, mum getting hospitalised because of an allergic reaction and the stress of assignments that month... June 2021 was a nightmare for me. I'm still a little peeved at that, but what can I do? I saw in a Discord channel a tweet along the lines of "If you'd swap a fighter with a character that was Mii'd, which would you pick?" Honestly I'm fine with the line-up we've gotten and I'll mention in Sora's part a separate thing regarding Doomguy, but if there was only one I'd swap, it would be Dante as the fighter and Kazuya as the Mii.
Overall, I'd say Kazuya's satisfaction level is: 55%. I like Kazuya as a fighter to some extent, but would have preferred it if it was Dante that was the fighter.

:ultsora:
I've probably mentioned it elsewhere and keep it brief, but the best way to describe Sora's inclusion is the word "Magical." Yes I was annoyed that Doomguy got the Mii costume treatment too since he was another of my most wanted alongside Dante, Kiryu, Reimu and Phoenix Wright. Yes the reveal means that Sora is truly the end of the road and there's no more chances for any future fighter or seeing these characters get another chance for Smash in goodness knows how long.

But if I had to trade that for the sheer amazement that is getting Sora, who was THE most wanted character from the ballot all those years... despite having to negotiate with both DISNEY AND SQUARE ENIX to finally get Sora in Smash Bros... I would certainly do that. I was flabbergasted, much like Steve at being proven wrong in the most amazing way possible. I know we're a bit too early to rate Sora since he's now only three days or so away, but I'd say overall Sora gets a solid 90% satisfaction from me. He looks super faithful to Kingdom Hearts, great choice in stage with Hollow Bastion/Dive to the Heart, decent line-up of songs given the restrictions, and great costumes too. Can't wait to try him out.

:ultminmin:ultsteve::ultsephiroth::ultpyra::ultmythra::ultkazuya::ultsora:
"FINAL RESULTS"
This is a super-strong DLC line-up, especially coming off the whimper that was Byleth's reveal as the final fighter and so many impossibilities achieved. ARMS and Xenoblade 2 finally getting proper representation with Min-Min and the surprise duo of Pyra/Mythra meaning that we ended up with 7 characters in the end. We had the Twitter crasher Steve, the saviour of TGA2020 in Sephiroth finally bring us the content FFVII was well-deserving and needing, and Sora as perhaps the most amazing finale Smash Bros could end on. I know I would've preferred another character, but ending the game on as I call him "The Crossover King" himself, Sora is a truly amazing final fighter to end Super Smash Bros on. The only character I'm not super keen on is Kazuya, but that's a solid 6/7 if you ask me. But it still gets a 100% satisfaction rating for the crazy rollercoaster Sakurai has taken us on.
 
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MasterOfKnees

Space Pirate
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8,578
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Denmark
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KneeMaster
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SW-6310-1174-0352
Pyra/Mythra: 50% - When I look at XC2 I see a game with beautiful landscapes and a killer soundtrack, but character designs and gameplay that puts me off to the point where I'm never going to try it. Pyra and Mythra's designs won't ever grow on me, and if I had rated them right after their reveal they probably would have gotten a 0% score. Fortunately for them they are pretty fun to play, or at least Pyra is, and since I put more weight on implementation rather than inclusion for these satisfaction score, I think 50% is a nice middle ground that fits them.

Kazuya: 40% - I'm happy Tekken is in the game in some form, and while I'd have preferred Heihachi, Kazuya is a solid pick nonetheless. However, like I pointed out with Steve, I'm a guy who prefers simpler movesets, and this guy is just too much for my simpleton head to wrap around, I can't remember all of his moves and at what % to combo this into that and so on, and I don't find the character cool enough to put in the work either. He is at least pretty fun to play against, and he can do some of the most hype stuff in this game, but I just don't enjoy playing him myself.

Sora: 20% - This is a bit of an unfair one since we haven't had the chance to play him yet, so he's not quite being rated on the same metrics as the rest, but we're not going to get the chance to rate him again, so it is what it is. I thought Sora was a fitting note for Ultimate to close on, and I'm happy so many other people are happy about it. On a personal note however Kingdom Hearts is just one of those things that I'm never going to get, I like Square Enix RPGs (admittedly the action RPGs less so), and I love Disney animation, but the combination of the two is so awkward. I do sometimes like crossovers where two things clash so much that it becomes charming, but Kingdom Hearts just ain't it, not for me at least. I do give him some points for at least looking like a character that's going to be hard to dislike playing as, although he doesn't look super inspiring either, he's simple enough that he's probably going to fall into the same category as Lucina and Cloud where almost everyone can at least do a serviceable job with him.

Fighters Pass 2: 40% - This pass reminded me a little bit of the Smash 4 days, there are some good additions, but neither the characters or their gameplay were for me. When I look at the pass as a whole it all feels a little bit soft around the edges, for a lack of a better term. I'm not blind to the star power on display, but they're drawn from series that I don't personally care for, so there wasn't a character that really gave the pass the kick it needed for me. Admittedly that's a tough task since there are so few realistic options left that would get me excited, most of which are western at this point, but at the same time there's not even a character like Terry in here who made me love them thanks to their implementation. Sephiroth was the best addition of the pass imo, but even he didn't expand the crossover as much as he just plugged holes that should never have been there to begin with. I'm also one of those that wants at least one or two non-human characters in every set of newcomers, and while it's disingenious to compare Steve to the rest, in concept he's still a regular dude. Not a big hit for me, but I don't feel like it was wasted money either, at this point I'm mostly here just for the ride.
 
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Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
60,666
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Top Tier Trash

0% Maybe it's because I've had horrid experiences with this fanbase harassing me, tellibg me to get gassed, stalking me, etc but I find nothing to be even remotely happy about. The stage is dull and often feels cramped, I don't care for the music, I don't like playing them, they're easy to pick up and play meaning I have to deal with them more than most characters, their palettes are dog**** which Sakurai deliberately made to screw with me as I legit cannot tell the two apart depending on their palettes which naturally ****s me over as my friends who like this crap just so happen to like the colours and as a treat, we also have some awkward voice direction just like the original game judging by the trailer and a voice clip for smash attacks to the point I'm now convinced that Al Weaver's a **** actor as he makes my ears bleed when he has to be loud. I also strongly dislike the power creep Pyra has because there's legit no reason to ever play Ike again now that she exists with her moves on average being stronger, faster, having more range and having better hitboxes. Absolute crap.

Man it'd be pretty upsetting if this dude's codename leaked considering the costume he came with

I'm not into Tekken so Kazuya's a tricky one to rate. In FFAs he's garbage and as is standard for Mishimas, he's incredibly technical so I also struggle in 1v1s. However, if you manage to get it going, Kazuya is amazingly fun to play, meaning he's inconsistent to me. However, when we look at the additional content, I have nearly nothing negative to say at all, the only thing being the remix from his trailer feeling off when compared to the original. The stage is similar to the KoF stadium but the darker look of the Dojo at night and breakable walls has a more sinister vibe which stands out a lot imo. As for the music, 39 tracks is a lot and most of them rule with barely anything in the game sounding remotely similar to Tekken's OST, the whole package with Kazuya easily boosts him back up to a good 85%
 

zeonie888

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
96
:ultpyra:/:ultmythra:: I was alright with their inclusion and the trailer made me think at first it would be something around Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Having the switch mechanic with another pair was a neatit was on Shiek/Zelda before they got split and the pokemon trainer. 60%

:ultkazuya:: My first thought when seeing Ganondorf being carried over the volcano was "Oh, is this Heihachi?" But nope it was his son. I was still surprised by this but was glad that were some Tekken ref. Although I don't play much of that series. 60%

:ultsora:: Man I have to be honset... I didn't think he had a chance since there were a lot of hurdles to go through most of them with Disney. The moment I saw that keyblade I shouted out "SORA!!!! IT'S SOOOOORAAA!" I have played the Kingdom Hearts games and I am very satisfied with how this pack comes to a close. Now I just have to try him out when he drops. 85%

Overall: I'm quite satisfied with how this pack turned and it ended on a high note in my opinion. Smash Ultimate has its highs and lows but I'm very glad I went on this crazy ride!: 80%
 

Blankiturayman

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
459
Coffee with Milk: 90%
For the first batch I said Sephiroth was a character I played a lot, but these two are up there as well. Their inclusion was not one I was expecting. I know Xenoblade 2 seemed likely to happen since ARMS made the cut already, but I didn't have very high hopes for a character from it to get in. And even if one did, like many others, I thought it would be Rex with the blades. That said the way it was done is not unpleasing to me at all. They're both really fun to play as, sometimes I do matches with either of them solo just for the fun of it. I have to add that, despite me playing Xenoblade 1, X, even Xenosaga and Xenogears, I'd have yet to play XC2. So their reveal finally got me to do it. I enjoyed it quite a bit! Really, if we rated them previous to their inclusion my score would probably have been way less in want. I'm surprised myself by how much I liked them, even if my preferred Xeno character was KOS-MOS, I'm fine with how things turned out.

Kazoo-ya: 70%
The reveal was fine, pretty funny, though with myself being a Tekken outsider it felt a bit out of the blue. Like one moment they're going to show the next character and then the other you have Tekken in the game. Not that that's wrong of course, just my personal feelings on it. I didn't even have it on my mind by then, they really did good by throwing people off-track by releasing the Heihachi costume earlier. I don't think they necessarily did it with that purpose in mind, but it definitely made me think there'd be nothing else. Well anyway, onto the character proper, he's really fun to use, definitely feels like he's got the more intricate moveset of the fighting game characters in here. Although I don't use him as much as Terry he's pretty alright, and good for Bandai Namco to finally get another character when they've been working on the game for so long. Really weird it took this much.

Sora: 100%
I know it might be somewhat premature to give such a high score rating as we haven't been able to play as him yet, but I'm really satisfied about this choice. Yes he's a requested character and everything, but here's the thing, before the proper reveal I didn't think much of Sora in Smash. Not even regarding possibilities but more about him actually being in, I just thought it'd be cool or something, despite playing KH up to DDD and loving the series years back. When the reveal was playing, and I first saw the keychain I went "oh, it's Sora", not super excited or anything but alright with it. Then a bit passed and I noticed it wasn't Sora from KH3, but rather the old KH1 design that I knew and played with for a lot of time back then.

The reveal was beautifully done, the orchestral Simple and Clean got to me and I've rewatched it a lot of times since. It's so nice how Sora practically seems as if he's being brought in from another world due to probably the amount of stuff they had to do to get him. When it started to set in who the character was, I was reminded of my time with the series, bringing back many nice memories, which made me appreciate the character choice a lot more in the end. At this point, even while dismissing the gameplay for now, I'm super satisfied. Of course there are other characters I've been hoping for, but I guess I didn't know myself that I'd be this happy with Sora. Maybe it's because I just saw the KH3 design posted all over or something, who was unfamiliar to me.

Well all that aside, the gameplay for now seems pretty good. Even if I'm a little sad it seems to be grounded on KH1 I can't complain. He has spells, and Sonic Blade, which are pretty good. Not just that though but just looking at him move around and everything, I've seen it posted in here but it really looks as if they just took him out of KH and directly put him in. It's pretty nice. If you were to ask me, Aeroga, Ars Arcanum or Ragnarok would've been cool to have, but as it is I'm good with it. I'll definitely be using the KH2 alt the most as that's one of my favorite designs for him.

Fighters Pass Second Chapter Overall: 75%
The number itself should be a little different if I were to calculate it, but I think it's fine as is. There was really one choice here that hindered it for me, the rest were all solid picks, with a great one at the end. Contrasting it with FP1, while I didn't rate it here I think I liked FP1's variety a tad more, besides it had one character I really, really like, which is nice, but I'm happy FP2 gave me another. Overall I think this was a solid pass. The one character I think wasn't that good is just in my personal taste anyways. I don't regret getting the full thing now that it's all said and done. It was fun to follow through.
 

slrigeigdew

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
300
Location
Colorado
:ultpyra::ultmythra: Two for the price of one 80%
Despite being two in one characters I don't have twice as much to say about these two. They're Melee Zelda and Sheik done right and it only took them 20 years. While these two are the best Nintendo characters we've gotten as DLC (high bar, I know) I do have some problems with these characters.

Do Pyra and Mythra perfectly represent the driver-blade system in XBC2? No. Would Rex and Pyra have made more sense than Pyra and Mythra? Yes. Are they still super fun to play and nice to look at? Also yes.

Good reveal trailer, great moveset, and an excellent selection of music makes this a worthwhile pick in my eyes. Some XBC2 fans are upset that Rex wasn't playable or that their moveset doesn't reflect the nuances of the intricate gameplay in XBC2. Lets be real, he'll probably replace them in Smash 6 if XBC2 doesn't get shafted for the inevitable XBC3 rep.

:ultkazuya: KAZUYA MISHIMA 60%
Not the character I wanted or even asked for but I'm glad he's here all the same. I'd rather have Digimon or Klonoa but Tekken is fine. I suck at the FGCs but I don't expect each and every character in the pass to personally cater to me. I love playing as Terry more but I love watching good Kazuya players. I'm a bit sad because his inclusion along with the first half of the pass fueled the "second chance" theory which gave me hope for Ayumi/Rhythm Heaven rep but what we got next was much much much better.

Side note I'm like the only one who wanted all the characters that were mii costume'd in his Sakurai Presents but glad they weren't playable. I appreciate the long time Lloyd supporters but I wasn't in the mood for another "anime swordsmen in Smash" debate for the 42069th time in the past 3 years. Dragonborn would have been cool but I would have preferred Doomguy (who was also Mii'd RIP). People throw out the term Bayo 2.0 whenever a DLC character can perform a basic combo but Dante would unironically break the game even if he was based on DMC1 Dante. I love Shantae but she shouldn't be the only indie rep in a game with Shovel Knight, Cuphead and freaking Undertale. Looking forward to seeing them in Smash 6 tho
:ultsora: Simply Clean 90%
The Smash community judging a character before they even come out? Unheard of. But jokes aside, the reveal trailer alone sold me on the character and the moveset showcase only solidified his position as a secondary. The fact that his moveset isn't that far off from the one SSF2 gave him is a plus. It's obviously not 1 to 1 but I'm willing to learn the character. The amount of work put in to secure the rights to Sora is just as amazing as the overwhelming reaction from a community that's notoriously hard to satisfy. That alone has my respect.

Also pour one out for the Doom fans. People were expecting we'd get Doom slayer and Geno in the second fighter pass and we got both of them... sorta. At least they got something, unlike the hundreds of characters that were heavily speculated for years.

Fighter Pass 2: A Perfect Send off to Smash Ultimate 75%

Look it's hard for me to complain about Smash DLC when I got my most wanted LITERALLY Day 1 of the DLC Hype cycle.:ultjoker:At that point everything else was just a bonus. People have complained that there's too many humanoid sword fighters from JRPGs in both passes and I'm inclined to agree. Problem is, as someone who actually plays these characters and not just speculate and argue about them online I've discovered a shocking truth.

Sword fighters are... just too damn fun lmao I'm not even a JRPG fan (outside of Persona) they're all just so fun to pick and play

I'd love more characters that represent untapped genres like horror, puzzle, visual novels etc. as well as reps that appeal to a more Western audience in general. But what we got in FP2 was more than enough, Joker and Sephiroth made both passes worth it. Hopefully we get more fan picks in Smash 6. (and hopefully we don't get stuck in another pandemic that kills the hype cycle of the game)
 

TCT~Phantom

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
3,415
NNID
TCT~Phantom
:ultpyra::ultmythra: Two for the price of one 80%
Despite being two in one characters I don't have twice as much to say about these two. They're Melee Zelda and Sheik done right and it only took them 20 years. While these two are the best Nintendo characters we've gotten as DLC (high bar, I know) I do have some problems with these characters.

Do Pyra and Mythra perfectly represent the driver-blade system in XBC2? No. Would Rex and Pyra have made more sense than Pyra and Mythra? Yes. Are they still super fun to play and nice to look at? Also yes.

Good reveal trailer, great moveset, and an excellent selection of music makes this a worthwhile pick in my eyes. Some XBC2 fans are upset that Rex wasn't playable or that their moveset doesn't reflect the nuances of the intricate gameplay in XBC2. Lets be real, he'll probably replace them in Smash 6 if XBC2 doesn't get shafted for the inevitable XBC3 rep.

:ultkazuya: KAZUYA MISHIMA 60%
Not the character I wanted or even asked for but I'm glad he's here all the same. I'd rather have Digimon or Klonoa but Tekken is fine. I suck at the FGCs but I don't expect each and every character in the pass to personally cater to me. I love playing as Terry more but I love watching good Kazuya players. I'm a bit sad because his inclusion along with the first half of the pass fueled the "second chance" theory which gave me hope for Ayumi/Rhythm Heaven rep but what we got next was much much much better.

Side note I'm like the only one who wanted all the characters that were mii costume'd in his Sakurai Presents but glad they weren't playable. I appreciate the long time Lloyd supporters but I wasn't in the mood for another "anime swordsmen in Smash" debate for the 42069th time in the past 3 years. Dragonborn would have been cool but I would have preferred Doomguy (who was also Mii'd RIP). People throw out the term Bayo 2.0 whenever a DLC character can perform a basic combo but Dante would unironically break the game even if he was based on DMC1 Dante. I love Shantae but she shouldn't be the only indie rep in a game with Shovel Knight, Cuphead and freaking Undertale. Looking forward to seeing them in Smash 6 tho
:ultsora: Simply Clean 90%
The Smash community judging a character before they even come out? Unheard of. But jokes aside, the reveal trailer alone sold me on the character and the moveset showcase only solidified his position as a secondary. The fact that his moveset isn't that far off from the one SSF2 gave him is a plus. It's obviously not 1 to 1 but I'm willing to learn the character. The amount of work put in to secure the rights to Sora is just as amazing as the overwhelming reaction from a community that's notoriously hard to satisfy. That alone has my respect.

Also pour one out for the Doom fans. People were expecting we'd get Doom slayer and Geno in the second fighter pass and we got both of them... sorta. At least they got something, unlike the hundreds of characters that were heavily speculated for years.

Fighter Pass 2: A Perfect Send off to Smash Ultimate 75%

Look it's hard for me to complain about Smash DLC when I got my most wanted LITERALLY Day 1 of the DLC Hype cycle.:ultjoker:At that point everything else was just a bonus. People have complained that there's too many humanoid sword fighters from JRPGs in both passes and I'm inclined to agree. Problem is, as someone who actually plays these characters and not just speculate and argue about them online I've discovered a shocking truth.

Sword fighters are... just too damn fun lmao I'm not even a JRPG fan (outside of Persona) they're all just so fun to pick and play

I'd love more characters that represent untapped genres like horror, puzzle, visual novels etc. as well as reps that appeal to a more Western audience in general. But what we got in FP2 was more than enough, Joker and Sephiroth made both passes worth it. Hopefully we get more fan picks in Smash 6. (and hopefully we don't get stuck in another pandemic that kills the hype cycle of the game)
The original plan was to do sora after he came out, but with Newcomer Speculation closing only a few days after we had to hasten the schedule, originally FP1 was going to be two days and we were going to do a day for World of Light, Spirits, and Online. We were expecting about a week of time post Sora when planning the schedule, which we did not get. Trust me, I wish we could have done this a few days later, but that really was not in the cards.
 
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