Q&A thread ASK QUESTIONS HERE.

[The_Bear735]

the answer is that online Lucario dittos should make you feel bad about yourself. If you like them, seek help as you're most likely thrusting a Lucario plushy as you read this.

 

[Browny]

as cliche and lame as it is, i just have to say umad?

 

[xxpatgxx]

After being in the New England scene for quite some time I realized that most smashers consider NE inferior to almost all other reasons, yet we have 2 top snake players, 2 top ZSS users( DAzWA, and xxpatgxx), the best yoshi before he quit, the best pit, and other good players. Anyway my question is where can lucario counterpick snake because I just don't know where to take a good snake.

 

[The_Bear735]

It's mainly dependent on how the Snake plays and how you prefer to use Lucario. Honestly, taking Snake to FD or YI is your best option, and YI is pushing it. I'd only recommend YI if your opponent neglects platform camping or such (which good Snakes really shouldn't), because it's an otherwise great stage for Lucario. Be careful of Snake reading a wall cling though, getting bair'd into the wall is probably going to kill you if it's during a wall cling.

Generally, FD is your best option.

 

[phi1ny3]

Worst yet, he could always footstool you, that way you don't have the opportunity to tech it and doesn't have to worry about lag.

Another underused stage pick against snake imo is Delphino, the only issue is if they CP DDD there, then you're screwed :\

 

[Aurasmash14]

What is the safest way to kill a relatively heavy char like snake? since lucario sucks at quick revenge kills, By the time my aura is high enough snake can usually uptilt by then.

 

[The_Bear735]

Fsmash. Don't use it wildly, though.


Oh, and oh god I love Bair. It's not used enough imo.

 

[culexus・wau]

FD is really your best choice. if they ban it SV and Frigate are solid choices imo, YI doesn't give you near enough room to fight snake.

Guys give me Marth tips =( Good Marths that I don't steamroll still brutalize me.

Spoiler

[no pun intended]

 

[D. Disciple]

If the snake is in the air, uair them.

But for kills against snake. Uair, fsmash, aura sphere, bair

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Uair is seriously your best kill move against Snake I think. By a good margin.

 

[.AC.]

snake shouldn be getting hit by uair D:, i think baiting a grab or tilt and punishing with fsmash works better.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Why shouldn't he? None of his aerials can beat it from below, and if he airdodges he gets daired. (or sometimes uaired anyway lol) His only good option against it is a pivot, which can be predicted.

 

[D. Disciple]

I beg to differ AC, Snake can be uaired and should be uaired if he's above Lucario. Also if a Snake is falling down with nair, that screams to get a foot up his ***, or an aura sphere or fsmash. Just saying.

 

[.AC.]

if he is above you i would be assuming he got hit there, he can still cypher,pivot or just plain falling away from you. also he shouldnt be airdodging since you can just bait it and get a free aerial. but well im just saying this from experience since i always die from fsmashes =(.

 

[Fizzle_Boy]

I say Snake has a better chance of outmaneuvering Lucario than getting Uair'd. His horizontal airspeed comes close to our dash speed (don't hold me to that statement), his air dodge lasts almost as long as if not longer than our Uair, Snake falls muuuuuch faster than Lucario, and lets not forget about pivot-nades.

 

[Aurasmash14]

if he is above you i would be assuming he got hit there, he can still cypher,pivot or just plain falling away from you. also he shouldnt be airdodging since you can just bait it and get a free aerial. but well im just saying this from experience since i always die from fsmashes =(.

we can actually follow his Cypher with our uber-large 2nd jump THEN attack him lol.

if he pivots away, just shoot him with AS.

if he lands, dair. it's range is pretty beast.

i don't see how Snake can protect himself from lucario in midair.

 

[The_Bear735]

Snake is easy to take advantage of when he's in the air. If you're vying for a KO, you're best off trying to juggle him into Uair/Bair/Nair.


And SH Dair is sexy for a multitude of reasons, as impractical as it can be lol.

 

[D. Disciple]

if he is above you i would be assuming he got hit there, he can still cypher,pivot or just plain falling away from you. also he shouldnt be airdodging since you can just bait it and get a free aerial. but well im just saying this from experience since i always die from fsmashes =(.

I see where you're coming from, but trust me. Lucario can pull off uair kills on a Snake, it was something I figured out when I couldn't kill a snake with my fsmash or anyway horizontal and it was annoying me, so I thought of trying to kill him vertically and that's when I fell in love with uair.

 

[phi1ny3]

Uair can happen.

Snake isn't as easy to juggle.

People take generalizations too seriously.

 

[hardnoir]

I've been playing Brawl seriously for two months or so now, and I'd really like to start playing competitively. There is a tournament in Wichita, KS, in a couple of months, No Koast, that will be my first tourney. Trouble is I have no one to fight locally and have had to resort to wifi for all my play. Is there anything my Lucario will be missing out on fighting solely online?

 

[BADzioba]

Who is currently the best Lucario player in the U.S. according to tourney results.

 

[Kewkky]

Who is currently the best Lucario player in the U.S. according to tourney results.

Actually, make it "top 3-5 ACTIVE Lucario mains according to tourney results"... I'm also quite curious.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Based just on tourney results, Lee Martin would be the obvious choice, even if he uses more viable characters more often. The only person who could come close is Azen, and he comes and goes like the wind.

The other top ones I can remember are Zucco, Junebug, Trela and PatG (Maybe, not sure if he uses Lucario in tournament that much or mostly just ZSS) People have been saying good things about Fonz lately so he might be up there too.

Ksizzle has a beastly Lucario as well, but as far as I know his tournament results are mostly from MK.

Did I miss anybody?

 

[ksizl4life]

Well i do main MK lol Lucario gets to come out the cage once in a while

I need help vs Falco with Lucario >_>

 

[iRJi]

Well i do main MK lol Lucario gets to come out the cage once in a while

I need help vs Falco with Lucario >_>

@_@. I hate that ****ing MU =[. It's easier then it was before for me, since i went against Bleachigo for like a week straight, but the MU is dumb. It's a chasing game most of the time. Btw, Thanks for the help with MK xP.

 

[ksizl4life]

no prob.

yeah i hate falco now lol. i played keitaro for 6 hours yesterday and its definitely super annoying. i need this practice cuz ive decided on most likely using lucario vs defh if we play in tourney.

 

[D. Disciple]

Yeah I hear he slays MKs and he's just a beast.

 

[phi1ny3]

no prob.

yeah i hate falco now lol. i played keitaro for 6 hours yesterday and its definitely super annoying. i need this practice cuz ive decided on most likely using lucario vs defh if we play in tourney.

Use the dtilt Luke ksizzle!

 

[Zucco]

Even my Falco can beat ksizzle's Lucario. Im pretty good at the Falco MU, I really wish Bleachigo would go to more tournaments though(THE ONLY FALCO IVE EVER LOST TO ACK! barely though and I got revenge with Ness lolz). I feel as if I play alot smarter in the matchup now.

 

[ksizl4life]

shut up anthony!

yeah im so bad at this matchup. i need like serious pointers

dtilt? i hate that move lmao. does it really work?

 

[Night-san]

I feel like this is a stupid question, but-
What exactly is a pivot -insert attack here-? Is it just doing the attack in one direction while facing the opposite way? How exactly is it performed? (I'm aware of how to do a pivot Falcon Punch if I'm correct on the definition, but otherwise...)

 

[IceDX]

Based just on tourney results, Lee Martin would be the obvious choice, even if he uses more viable characters more often. The only person who could come close is Azen, and he comes and goes like the wind.

The other top ones I can remember are Zucco, Junebug, Trela and PatG (Maybe, not sure if he uses Lucario in tournament that much or mostly just ZSS) People have been saying good things about Fonz lately so he might be up there too.

Ksizzle has a beastly Lucario as well, but as far as I know his tournament results are mostly from MK.

Did I miss anybody?

im sure your up there 2, you just dont place that well cuz WC is way too good.

 

[Zucco]

ECisbetterthanWClettheflamewarbegin.

 

[culexus・wau]

I like both coasts.

I've never been to the MW/Texas area tho.

 

[Gah777]

What makes Lucario b-tier material? I've been trying out lucario for the past week and nothing about him really seems super special. He's slow and, at the start of a fresh stock, weak. His aura boost only serves to "normalize" him, it seems like. Around 100% he starts to get "stronger" but it seems like this is the point where he starts to catch up to other characters in terms of strength, but then now he's at KO% and vulnerable. And even as you get "stronger" you're still just as slow as before. It seems to me that two if the only things going for him are his range (that are, by the way, on some of his laggiest moves) and his lasting hitboxes. What makes lucario so good?

 

[culexus・wau]

when you can live up to 150+ on average.

things start to matter.

He also has pretty low lag on his attacks as well.

You get more reward for living longer and dying 2nd as well.

you have a good clutch utility dair, fast fair etc.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

im sure your up there 2, you just dont place that well cuz WC is way too good.

Ah, Ice. <3
I wish I could say I'm up there. Maybe someday.

 

[Browny]

. Around 100% he starts to get "stronger" but it seems like this is the point where he starts to catch up to other characters in terms of strength,

Lucario actually reaches 'normal' strength at around 70%. By the time hes at 140 hes reached DK strength. Beyond that no one matches his all-round power. given his weight and overall difficulty to punish with KO moves, he will be reaching this strength on a regular basis vs many characters. He has the evasiveness and difficulty to combo at all %'s of the game of a small, lightweight character while packing a killer projectile and hard-hitting near unpunishable KO moves at higher %'s.

People tend to often ignore a very important character trait, one which is never brought up in MU discussions or considered in typical tier list discussions. The ability to avoid KO moves. When any character is at high % and so is the enemy, no one wants to die. For a character without safe KO moves, all the enemy has to do it wait patiently until they can punish with a KO move. Lucario rarely gives characters this opportunity. So many of his attacks become near, or completely unpunishable on block. His staple KO moves like fsmash and full charge aura sphere also become unpunishable on block. Attacking a lucario at high %'s becomes a massive risk/reward game where every time you fail to KO him, which will happen since you cant actually punish his walling attacks with a KO move, it gets more and more in his favour. All the while he can throw out completely safe KO moves.

tl;dr: You cant KO Lucario whenever you want. He can avoid powerful KO attacks at will and get stronger. he can throw out random, unpunishable attacks which can KO and are sometimes completely unavoidable (fsmash/AS landing lag).

of course this is all generalised, not all characters are this limited against Lucario and actually can KO Lucario whenever they want, safely. But compared to the whole cast, hes right at the top when it comes to choosing to not die (with MK/Wario/Sonic) and coupled with aura, it makes him high tier. If he had a quick KO move top 10 easily.

 

[hough123]

Lucario actually reaches 'normal' strength at around 70%. By the time hes at 140 hes reached DK strength. Beyond that no one matches his all-round power. given his weight and overall difficulty to punish with KO moves, he will be reaching this strength on a regular basis vs many characters. He has the evasiveness and difficulty to combo at all %'s of the game of a small, lightweight character while packing a killer projectile and hard-hitting near unpunishable KO moves at higher %'s.

People tend to often ignore a very important character trait, one which is never brought up in MU discussions or considered in typical tier list discussions. The ability to avoid KO moves. When any character is at high % and so is the enemy, no one wants to die. For a character without safe KO moves, all the enemy has to do it wait patiently until they can punish with a KO move. Lucario rarely gives characters this opportunity. So many of his attacks become near, or completely unpunishable on block. His staple KO moves like fsmash and full charge aura sphere also become unpunishable on block. Attacking a lucario at high %'s becomes a massive risk/reward game where every time you fail to KO him, which will happen since you cant actually punish his walling attacks with a KO move, it gets more and more in his favour. All the while he can throw out completely safe KO moves.

tl;dr: You cant KO Lucario whenever you want. He can avoid powerful KO attacks at will and get stronger. he can throw out random, unpunishable attacks which can KO and are sometimes completely unavoidable (fsmash/AS landing lag).

of course this is all generalised, not all characters are this limited against Lucario and actually can KO Lucario whenever they want, safely. But compared to the whole cast, hes right at the top when it comes to choosing to not die (with MK/Wario/Sonic) and coupled with aura, it makes him high tier. If he had a quick KO move top 10 easily.

Bravo.

Also, you're saying that he's slow. Do you mean that for his groundspeed? Because Lucario's airspeed is much faster. Lucario's all around speed is faster in the air, thus he is a predominantly aerial character. DJ covered almost everything else.


DJ, may I move your post into the tier discussion thread? It'd be nice to get this info out there.

 

[Gah777]

When I said Lucario was slow, I wasn't refering to his movement speed, but his attack speed. His ground game is really slow, and I agree, his air game is faster than his ground game, but his only truly fast air attack is down air...


I guess I could use some tips on how to play Lucario too