Project M Social Thread

[Akuma2120]

So I watched this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCpLFN7haQM

I'm concerned for Snake, his tilt failed to kill C. Falcon at 209%, he looks mid-low tier, just plain bad, I understand he needed a nerf but this is... IDK

 

[Juushichi]

So I watched this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCpLFN7haQM

I'm concerned for Snake, his tilt failed to kill C. Falcon at 209%, he looks mid-low tier, just plain bad, I understand he needed a nerf but this is... IDK

See this. Or any other Snake videos for your concern. Snake is fine.

 

[Sails]

So I watched this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCpLFN7haQM

I'm concerned for Snake, his tilt failed to kill C. Falcon at 209%, he looks mid-low tier, just plain bad, I understand he needed a nerf but this is... IDK

That's because it sends at a semi-spike angle. There's not even a metagame yet, nor is anything finalized especially since this video is old. I really wouldn't worry about it too much. Snake is probably not even going to rely on that to kill, but probably to set up to kill.

 

[Rhubarbo]

After playing some Brawl this evening, I've come up with a suggestion to help Olimar cope in the Melee environment. Since whistling to rearrange his Pikmin constantly isn't a viable option, I suggest that the order of his Pikmin doesn't change after he performs and attack.

Also, if possible, a code should be added to allow Olimar to select the type of Pikmin he plucks. Tapping B would spawn a Red Pikmin, holding B then tapping down then releasingw would spawn a Blue Pikmin, and so forth.

 

[MonkUnit]

Streaming right now, idk how long we'll be streaming, cousins may have to leave soon. http://www.livestream.com/stprojectm

 

[IYM!]

the pikmin come out randomly, so, it depends of wich pikmin is in the line

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

this threaaaaaaaaaaad

 

[Strong Badam]

So I watched this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCpLFN7haQM

I'm concerned for Snake, his tilt failed to kill C. Falcon at 209%, he looks mid-low tier, just plain bad, I understand he needed a nerf but this is... IDK

Ftilt, you mean? It's meant to send into mines, not for KOing. His utilt would have KO'd and his dtilt would have combo'd into Up-Air.
My Snake is awful btw, and I was against darkrain. XD

 

[ClinkStryphart]

Cannot wait for the demo no rush shanus & dev team. Would be cool if it was out on the 25th though but I understand totally its upto you guys. The 25th is my birthday and I turn 25.

I'm so hyped for the demo. Cannot wait to try Lucas hes probably by far my favorite character.

 

[iLink]

I really like the version counter on the p:m site

I had a question about it though, are they usually minimal changes like a character's attack being slightly altered in a way or is does it vary often?

 

[Soldner Kei]

can't wait for the demo, it feels like a new smash bros it's about to be released, can't wait *-*

congrants and cheers to all the dev team, keep the great job guys

 

[ClinkStryphart]

Not sure how much longer its going on for but theres a stream being played at the moment.

http://www.livestream.com/stprojectm

 

[Strong Badam]

I really like the version counter on the p:m site

I had a question about it though, are they usually minimal changes like a character's attack being slightly altered in a way or is does it vary often?

It varies. Sometimes it's a complete rehaul of a stage such as Mewtwo2000's version of DL64 being added, sometimes it's a minor tweak of Randall's path on Yoshi's Story, or a small fix of a character's tech-roll distance.

 

[ValTroX]

I am not a member of the PMBR you know.

I already showed them how to put them in already.

Edit:ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz

Alrighty thanks

 

[JCaesar]

Awww the stream was nice while it lasted. Hopefully some of those vids will make it to youtube, especially those sonic vids. Those were nice.

On a side topic, ROB from the stream looked really nice with his down b change. What would be the main things holding him back from being introduced in the demo? I know there's a reason, but knowing would be nice.

Sorry, we didn't save any matches. We were playing on Thunderhorse's Wii and he has no way of recording matches, and transferring them to my SD card and trying to get the right version so the replays don't desync is just too much effort and I'm lazy

As for ROB, as much as I'd love him to be in the demo, I feel he hasn't been tested enough in a competitive environment to know exactly where he stands at the moment. I'm the only one in the PMBR who really plays him (though standardtoaster's been picking him up <3) so we don't have much data to go on right now. But he is very close to done.

You guys should edit a duelist stage directly into the stagelist, lmao. P:M duelist <3

I've tried Duelist in P:M, it doesn't work very well Snake just falls too damn fast.

People are complaining of a DEMO having 14 characters?

How many characters were played by your group in Melee anyway? I'm sorry though to Peach and IC mains, but at least you know the ICs probably will be ready AFTER Mewtwo or whoever the ? is anyway lol.

I believe the only thing holding Peach back at the moment are bouncing turnips. ICs are just a ***** to work with.

I want to add that the goal of the demo is not to include every character possible, just a good sampling to hold you guys over until we finish.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

When you guys get around to ICs, could I suggest a re-worked Up B that doesn't leave Nana completely helpless?

 

[shanus]

I want to add that the goal of the demo is not to include every character possible, just a good sampling to hold you guys over until we finish.

I just want to reinforce this point. We have a ton of characters who are far progressed and extremely playable. However, as we still have several characters that are incomplete, we put together a sample of characters we feel play extremely well currently and representative, but don't commit all of our hard work into a demo since putting out a demo with 75% of the cast wouldn't feel like a demo

 

[Life]

You've probably gotten this a lot, but at least add ROB. He was getting really good reviews when I was watching the stream last night. If the list is final though I can live with it

 

[shanus]

You've probably gotten this a lot, but at least add ROB. He was getting really good reviews when I was watching the stream last night. If the list is final though I can live with it

The list is final. We have a lot of characters not added who get "really good reviews." The demo I'm sure will make a lot of people happy, and definitely bridge the hype between demo and the final product.

 

[Jonas]

I would have prefered more newcomers though. I'm a bit more excited about those since I already know the Melee characters
Still, I understand if they require a bit more work since you can't exactly copy paste them from Melee.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

You don't really know all the characters from Melee. Aren't pretty much everyone below Melee's S tier buffed? I mean, Bowser's just awesome, Ganondorf just might be able to stand up to higher tiered characters, and Zelda is pretty lulzy and all around fantastic from what I've seen.

 

[Strong Badam]

Zelda, G&W, Link, and Ganon might as well be newcomers, since they were awful in Melee (Yes, Ganondorf. You were awful in Melee. Get over it.)

 

[I R MarF]

You don't really know all the characters from Melee. Aren't pretty much everyone below Melee's S tier buffed? I mean, Bowser's just awesome, Ganondorf just might be able to stand up to higher tiered characters, and Zelda is pretty lulzy and all around fantastic from what I've seen.

Actually, unlike Brawl, Ganon could already stand up against high tiered characters in melee lol

But afaik, everyone is getting at least a minor buff besides Fox, Falco, Jiggs, Shiek, Marth (and Peach?)

Also, I think the 14 characters selected for the demo is great. Though Peach will be missed, the main demographic being appealed to is the Melee audience... so its important that that particular audience gets to play the chars they know best. This will validate the quality of P:M and assure a great end product (or fortify hype).

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Ganondorf was playable at the very least.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm writing up stuff now about what I want fixed with ICs. Does my opinion matter?

I mean, will it be taken into account?

 

[Strong Badam]

Kinda depends on what you suggest. Lol. You'll likely have more chance of being heard if you post on the Project M Forums.

 

[shanus]

i think plenty of people will be happy with newcomers like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe0ePPfxRAE

 

[V-K]

The demo is perfectly fine. You guys have to understand that most chars aren't even balanced yet so you should be happy that you will get to play at least some of them soon.

By the way as long as I have Link and Falcon I am fine. :3

 

[Vigilante]

About the earlier idea about controlling which Pikmin you get through variations of button presses, that would slow down Olimar's move by a lot. I think a sequence that never changes is fine.

 

[ruhtraeel]

***ing landing detection

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8KBGrNL9SQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWQbJ7ctVww

-_-

 

[Big-Cat]

About the earlier idea about controlling which Pikmin you get through variations of button presses, that would slow down Olimar's move by a lot. I think a sequence that never changes is fine.

Well here's a possible solution: Negative Edge

Pressing B and immediately releasing B will give you a red Pikmin. Hold B instead and then immediately pressing one of the four directions and then releasing will give you blue, yellow, purple, or white Pikmin. I think this would be slower by maybe a couple of frames per pluck, but I very much like the idea of you having total control over which Pikmin you need.

The problem I see with a fixed sequence would be that the Olimar player might have limited mixups. I could be wrong though because I don't know how knowing the Pikmin order in Brawl makes him predictable, if at all.

Although I think implementing negative edge might be more difficult than I think.

 

[I R MarF]

I love the P:M website but I have one criticism in regards to the character section. Why does the Marth page seem as though it had the least amount of effort gone into it? It is very blunt, rushed, and is ridden with "haha Marth is feminine" on the entire page. While I do think Marth is laughable, he deserved a much more in depth article than the one he was given.

Of course, you may be thinking I am just butthurt because Marth is my main. While I will admit that is partially the reason why I am sensitive to it, it is still a legit complaint. So I did a word count of all of the character articles (excluding titles) and here are the results:

fox-419
falco-779
jiggs-824
Shiek-732
Marth-232
Captain Falcon-359
Ganon-357
Link-651
Mr. G&W- 423
Snake-396
Sonic-390

As you can see, Marth is quite the outlier. In fact, some of the overviews on other chars are longer than Marth's entire page. Also, Marth and Snake are the only ones with just 3 categories. Snake I can sort of understand, but why does Marth only have three? Overview, Range, and Combos? Why not a Edgeguarding or Tipper section? In fact, if you use Ctrl+F and type "tip" the word is only used twice and not even to discuss what it means to Marth. Now I am sorry, but that is pretty bad considering how the properties of his sword is what makes him very unique... and one of the first things that comes to mind when I think Marth.

Well, you could say that with Marth all of this information is implied, but why is Falco's section so long? Is it because Falco has more work done on him? Well I doubt that considering pretty much all of Marth's attack animations had to be rebuilt.

Sorry if I'm over reacting, but I can't help but think the person who wrote Marth's article was either unethused about typing it, or had a very limited knowledge on Marth's character. In either case, a Marth main should have been consulted or someone should have stepped in and noticed how half***ed the article was.

 

[shanus]

I love the P:M website but I have one criticism in regards to the character section. Why does the Marth page seem as though it had the least amount of effort gone into it? It is very blunt, rushed, and is ridden with "haha Marth is feminine" on the entire page. While I do think Marth is laughable, he deserved a much more in depth article than the one he was given.

Of course, you may be thinking I am just butthurt because Marth is my main. While I will admit that is partially the reason why I am sensitive to it, it is still a legit complaint. So I did a word count of all of the character articles (excluding titles) and here are the results:

fox-419
falco-779
jiggs-824
Shiek-732
Marth-232
Captain Falcon-359
Ganon-357
Link-651
Mr. G&W- 423
Snake-396
Sonic-390

As you can see, Marth is quite the outlier. In fact, some of the overviews on other chars are longer than Marth's entire page. Also, Marth and Snake are the only ones with just 3 categories. Snake I can sort of understand, but why does Marth only have three? Overview, Range, and Combos? Why not a Edgeguarding or Tipper section? In fact, if you use Ctrl+F and type "tip" the word is only used twice and not even to discuss what it means to Marth. Now I am sorry, but that is pretty bad considering how the properties of his sword is what makes him very unique... and one of the first things that comes to mind when I think Marth.

Well, you could say that with Marth all of this information is implied, but why is Falco's section so long? Is it because Falco has more work done on him? Well I doubt that considering pretty much all of Marth's attack animations had to be rebuilt.

Sorry if I'm over reacting, but I can't help but think the person who wrote Marth's article was either unethused about typing it, or had a very limited knowledge on Marth's character. In either case, a Marth main should have been consulted or someone should have stepped in and noticed how half***ed the article was.

In reading his article, I don't know if I share the same criticisms. To me, word count is an entirely false metric since in most cases, a concise sentence can more often deliver a better story than a wordy one. You seem to have struggle grasping what his fourth section should truthfully entail. Are you looking for a section to better explain how the tips are used for combos, or what? I appreciate the constructive criticism, but I guess I want something more concrete as to your expectations.

 

[Deleted member]

He's Melee Marth with Brawl ATs.

I summarized Marth in 6 words.

 

[MonkUnit]

lmao drpepper111. Also, if you guys want to post suggestions for characters, posting in the Project M forum will have a higher chance of it being heard.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

I read over the Marth entry and I think it's just fine for what it was intended to do. I can't say I'd have done any better if I did it myself.

I think different people have different expectations on what the write-ups should contain. Many Melee players coming into Project M will see entries like Falco's and say "yeah yeah yeah we know what pillaring is. We're not idiots" and would be pleased with a short entry like Marth's. On the other hand, a newcomer from Brawl who might have caught wind about it from a friend will see something like

He's Melee Marth with Brawl ATs.

I summarized Marth in 6 words.

and say "This doesn't tell me jack" and would end up being confused because the term "Melee Marth" has no meaning to them. Melee players however would understand exactly what "Melee Marth" entails because they have a point of reference unlike the Brawl player.

Considering the target audience of Project M is more likely to be older Melee players rather than new Brawl players, Marth's write-up does a good job explaining what it needs to. Yeah a Brawl player might look at it and say "what's a Ken Combo? What does this mean?", but a returning Melee player will get all they need to out of it.

I think the issue is that (and correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't want to put words in your mouth) you would be more of a fan of the more detailed, "Brawl newcomer" style of write up, which I personally am myself as well since I was a Brawl player before Project M and stuff like "Edge Canceling" and "Wave Landing" made absolutely no sense to me when I first started playing. But most players getting into Project M will be Melee players so they won't need paragraphs upon paragraphs to explain things they already know.

 

[I R MarF]

In reading his article, I don't know if I share the same criticisms. To me, word count is an entirely false metric since in most cases, a concise sentence can more often deliver a better story than a wordy one. You seem to have struggle grasping what his fourth section should truthfully entail. Are you looking for a section to better explain how the tips are used for combos, or what? I appreciate the constructive criticism, but I guess I want something more concrete as to your expectations.

The word count results are not a product of Marth's article somehow achieving a high quality with less words than the others; its depth.

Compare Marth's article to Falco's. Look at the overview. For Falco, It starts with a brief intro of his character and that the P:M team restored him to his former Melee glory. Then, the article proceeds to go in depth as to what makes him good (speedy attacks, lasers) and finishes with describing his recovery weaknesses.

Marth's overview begins with a joke (tiara jab) then proceeds to state his Brawl and Melee metagame (again, jokingly), then it quickly states that he is his melee reiteration and that tipped fsmashes are good. (But not without getting lulzy on his appearance)

With Falco, we got his strengths, weaknesses, and specifics. And this continues throughout the article, readers not only get a description of what makes Falco good and bad, but why. With Marth, its short blunt lists and jokes

Now, if you believe the Marth overview is superior, lets put Falco into its format!

The arwing flying, anthropomorphic bird from Star Fox returns to his fearsome Melee form in Project M!

Brawl Falco may be all about D-throw chaingrabs and laser lock shenanigans, but this Falco is about laser approaches, powerful aerials, and of course, pillaring. He has all the tools that made him top tier in Melee, and that means that despite he can't fly, he is no bird to be trifled with. He is a combo and pressure beast, and though the tech skill is tricky to master, an early dair gimp can change the tide of a match.

Now do not tell me that this isn't inferior to the current Falco overview. Because it certainly is.

And to answer your question, here is what I think Marth's article should be like:

OVERVIEW
Like Falco's, explains restoration, gives strengths and weaknesses and give insight into his playstyle. For instance, Marth is an efficent low percent killer and versatile edgeguarder, but falls flat to reliable high percent killing, no truly advantageous high tier match up, and vulnerable to combos.

RANGE
In combination with explaining his rebuilt attacks (including his fully restored neutral b) you can describe what this range offers Marth (i.e. utilt/fmash through platforms, grabbing opponents out of recoveries) You should also consider mentioning that his Usmash is getting nerfed by reverting to melee and side-b changes. Short of these minor things, there really isn't much you can say.

COMBOS
Describe the tip/base system and explain his great set ups and kill potential at low-mid percents. Also explain his aerial combos, chain grabs, and perhaps even his up-b as a killing move.

EDGEGUARDING
Since discussing the tip system is lumped into the combo category, edgeguarding should be his fourth since no one edge guards quite like Marth. Marth has a great ledge hop dair, neutral A interceptions, fsmash edgeguards, dtilt edgeguards, neutral b edgeguards and offstage fairs.

 

[kaizo13]

ou nou guise....mai karactur's dezkripshion iz low tier

baff heem naoo! D:<



big deal.....gawd some of you are inconsiderate

THEY ARE DOING THIS FOR FREEEEEEEE......on their OWN time

 

[I R MarF]

I think the issue is that (and correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't want to put words in your mouth) you would be more of a fan of the more detailed, "Brawl newcomer" style of write up, which I personally am myself as well since I was a Brawl player before Project M and stuff like "Edge Canceling" and "Wave Landing" made absolutely no sense to me when I first started playing. But most players getting into Project M will be Melee players so they won't need paragraphs upon paragraphs to explain things they already know.

Its not really an expectation as much as its a matter of what the established norm is. Had the Marth article been too long, and the other articles been much shorter, I would have pointed out the inconsistency in that area. But since its the reverse, (short Marth article, long other articles) I feel as though Marth was neglected.

@kaizo let the grown ups talk, mmh k?

 

[Revven]

So... you guys would rather us write more on Marth even though what we have already written there basically covers who he is than actually getting back to work on preparing for the demo to give you something that is quality?

...Does not compute.

Edit: We really didn't even have to do any write-ups at all and left you with nothing to go on before the demo would be released. But we did anyway because we thought that it would be nice and it would keep you guys informed on what we changed. I guess if something is too short it's somehow not informative?