PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Druggedfox]

I want to learn and eventually main falco


I guess this is one of the best places to start.

We should get GA's top players to all main falco only, and if they don't main falco, just get better than them and kick them off the high spot

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yes I do. I've heard that some pro Falco players use Both X and Y depending on the tech or situation such as wave shine or shine grab etc


Is that something that has to be learned to get the best out of the character or is it a preference/depending of the person?

It's definitely all preference. You can make X, Y, or tap jump work for Falco's tech stuff, and there are even different combinations of those buttons you can use if you feel so inclined(I think Yay told me once that Shiz used a different jump button for a different Falco tech skill haha).

 

[Mike G]

We should get GA's top players to all main falco only, and if they don't main falco, just get better than them and kick them off the high spot

That would be extra beast! LOL

It's definitely all preference. You can make X, Y, or tap jump work for Falco's tech stuff, and there are even different combinations of those buttons you can use if you feel so inclined(I think Yay told me once that Shiz used a different jump button for a different Falco tech skill haha).

OK Thanks a lot . SleepyK also told me that Shiz uses a different jump for a different skill which was why I was confused lol

 

[FoxLisk]

Beards are extremely hot.

exactly.

Mike G: I used to use X for all jumps except for shine out of shield and multishine and LHDL. i recently switched to the claw though so i just use Y for everything now. i dotn think it matters much if your fingers are fast.

edit:

i also just got back from a tourney. i didn't do too awfully (9th out of like 28 or something. i was hoping for around 7th so it's not too disappointing) but i realized some stuff about myself playing friendlies after i was knocked out. i was playing pretty solidly in tournament, except for the odd mistakes because im not super consistent yet. but in friendlies after the tournament i found myself doing much trickier stuff. i would go in and waveland backward as a fakeout and dash dance at odd times and stuff to confuse people, and it worked out well and i was playing muchb etter than in tourney. basically my tournament mindset had me focused on playing my best in such a way that i was limiting my options to safe ones and spending too much time trying to read my opponent and too little trying to trick him. I'm not sure why I'm saying this, as I don't think anyone can really help me break out of this mindset, but I thought I'd share in case anyone finds it interesting.

also gdi i hate sheik. i was playing DJRome, if anyone knows him, in losers bracket. he one-stocked me both matches, although the first one was very close (and the second one would have been if i hadnt SD'd ><). i just can't figure out this **** matchup. how do other players deal with sheik's basic mixups: he can dash attack at you or past you or grab you, and it's extremely hard to tell in time to react unless you already know. my opponent was choosing dash attack more often than the other options, so I got some combos started with retreating dairs, but that only goes so far. does anyone have any advice for dealing with sheik's approaches?

and 'laser moar' is not appreciated, as he was powershielding well over half of my lasers, so i had to choose very carefully when it was advisable to shoot them.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

I used to use X for all jumps except for shine out of shield and multishine and LHDL.

i do this, *****. what's claw look like again?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Haha one of DJ's few good matchups. XD

I'll post about that tomorrow. I'm sleeping lol.

 

[Rubyiris]

Hay guise. Rare footage of Rubyiris actually PLAYING WELL! Critique get?

Rubyiris Falco vs Silly Kyle Peach

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be8DPoTR1wI <- YS
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vig9D1cNgo <- BF
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI60cWS_EwA <- DL (I shoot 153 lasers, get hype.)
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0TLSMRT2Mg <- FD

Please watch each game. Different stage, plus you get to see each player changing **** up each game.

Quoting this because PP is being irresponsible.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

Is it a bad habit if, when I dair shine, I full hop?

 

[JPOBS]

exactly.

also gdi i hate sheik. i was playing DJRome, if anyone knows him, in losers bracket. he one-stocked me both matches, although the first one was very close (and the second one would have been if i hadnt SD'd ><). i just can't figure out this **** matchup. how do other players deal with sheik's basic mixups: he can dash attack at you or past you or grab you, and it's extremely hard to tell in time to react unless you already know. my opponent was choosing dash attack more often than the other options, so I got some combos started with retreating dairs, but that only goes so far. does anyone have any advice for dealing with sheik's approaches?

and 'laser moar' is not appreciated, as he was powershielding well over half of my lasers, so i had to choose very carefully when it was advisable to shoot them.

sheik. i happen to like sheik a lot. i think its falco's easiest matchup up in the top tiers after falcon. she's basiclaly like a Less-good version of marth. She can gimp, but her combos are WAY less painful/garunteed unless you're playing a sheik who's way better than you.

but um, generally, if they are dash attacking and grab mix-up on approach, I just hold down to crouch cancel when i thnk im gonna get hit. If im in a position where i can just evade them entirely, i do, but say i fire a laser and the dash right under it, i just hld down to cc and if they dash attack, i cc and punish, and if they grab, well...you would have got grabbed anyway lol
other than that though, i like to meet em half way when they start to dash towards me with and apporaching sh dair, cross it up and then uptilt or something. i dunno i like fighting sheik
if they are great at powersheilding i dont really kno what to say about that tho.

Is it a bad habit if, when I dair shine, I full hop?

yes. because if they get good sdi on shine, they will go too far for you to it them cuz full jump doesnt have that much horizontal coverage. WD out of shine is almost always better when u can

 

[Dr Peepee]

Quoting this because PP is being irresponsible.

Let's see...

I'll do a general critique since you prefer I watch all of the videos.

combos need to come together more(need to connect with more moves...sometimes you overspaced), *****giving up too much stage control immediately when lasering and then expecting lasers to hit Peach out of her float when she's on top of you(biggest one), took a few big risks but I guess they worked out well enough, you had odd moments of wanting to continue your advantage when you couldn't and holding back when you could have easily pressed your advantage(not many of those though)...

second match you got too aggressive early on, then you got too deliberate and were read easily, then you started doing better but got too anxious for the kill on his 3rd stock, then you just made several situational decisions/tried to challenge too much instead of baiting and you died.

Third match you gave up stage control too much again, but you didn't always suffer that badly for it(I still think it could be worked on though), strange, typically ineffective throw followups(like Bthrow to slightly moving forward Dair or Uthrow to Bair...or was that just tech skill mistakes?), you need to capitalize on openings more(whiffed Dsmash, you lasered Peach out of her float, etc), probably could have stood to shield DI/roll more in pressure, weaker punishments this match overall.

Game 4 just seems to combine a bunch of the other stuff I said.

I could definitely tell you played better than usual these matches though, if that makes you feel any better haha.

 

[SSBMLahti]

*****es can't complain if they ain't arab. Now that's some annoying ****

My friend has had facial hair since he was ****ing 10

I had to wait 'til I was 16 LOL.

 

[Rubyiris]

Let's see...

I'll do a general critique since you prefer I watch all of the videos.

combos need to come together more(need to connect with more moves...sometimes you overspaced), *****giving up too much stage control immediately when lasering and then expecting lasers to hit Peach out of her float when she's on top of you(biggest one), took a few big risks but I guess they worked out well enough, you had odd moments of wanting to continue your advantage when you couldn't and holding back when you could have easily pressed your advantage(not many of those though)...

second match you got too aggressive early on, then you got too deliberate and were read easily, then you started doing better but got too anxious for the kill on his 3rd stock, then you just made several situational decisions/tried to challenge too much instead of baiting and you died.

Third match you gave up stage control too much again, but you didn't always suffer that badly for it(I still think it could be worked on though), strange, typically ineffective throw followups(like Bthrow to slightly moving forward Dair or Uthrow to Bair...or was that just tech skill mistakes?), you need to capitalize on openings more(whiffed Dsmash, you lasered Peach out of her float, etc), probably could have stood to shield DI/roll more in pressure, weaker punishments this match overall.

Game 4 just seems to combine a bunch of the other stuff I said.

I could definitely tell you played better than usual these matches though, if that makes you feel any better haha.

could you be more specific with some of this stuff?

i don't know what you mean by "giving up stage control" or "combos need to come together more"

 

[Druggedfox]

Watch any video with DrPP vs Hbox while Dogysamich is doing the commentary. He spends about 3/4 of the time describing stage control, and how the match is going back and forth because of it. Stage control literally means who controls more of the stage, usually; as I said, just watch anything with DrPP playing and Dogy doing commentary. When you have more room to maneuver, and control center stage, it increases your options and decreases your opponents options. That's the number 1 issue with camping: you forfeit stage control to your opponent. Camping means you've placed yourself in a corner, and while that can work, characters like peach/jiggs/ganon, that most people like to camp, are generally very good at taking advantage of the fact that you've cut down your space and thus your options.

I can't speak for PP on either of these, but when he says combos need to come together more, I would assume he's implying that you don't seem entirely consistent with your combo'ing, or know where you're going next with your combos. You're getting some small combos in and such, but you don't seem to have your combo game vs peach down.

That's what I understood by what PP said, at least.

 

[Dr Peepee]

could you be more specific with some of this stuff?

i don't know what you mean by "giving up stage control" or "combos need to come together more"

Alright, if you want me to be specific, then I suggest you pick a match for me to go through because going through 4 matches with a fine-toothed comb is rather tedious. I hope that's cool.

As for combos needing to come together, basically some things didn't work out for you when you tried to string hits/combos and you needed to readjust the way you comboed Peach so that you could more damage off per opening.

Edit: Good cover Druggedfox haha.

 

[Rubyiris]

Dreamland match get.

 

[omgwtfToph]

Let's say your opponent is in the corner in his shield. You expect him to stay there, so you do an aerial at him or something and he rolls out. You have just given up stage control and now it is you who is on the defensive. Or let's say you have the center field, but you run away and shoot lasers, and your opponent pushes you to the edge. That is another example.

 

[Druggedfox]

Alright, if you want me to be specific, then I suggest you pick a match for me to go through because going through 4 matches with a fine-toothed comb is rather tedious. I hope that's cool.

As for combos needing to come together, basically some things didn't work out for you when you tried to string hits/combos and you needed to readjust the way you comboed Peach so that you could more damage off per opening.

Edit: Good cover Druggedfox haha.

I try, I try. I ain't PP though, and it's your thread

 

[Dr Peepee]

I like your write-ups in their own right though, to be sure.

@Ruby: I'm gonna have to get back to this on like....thursday? I'm gonna be out smashing this week until then(**** =p) and that'll be my break day probably(unless I get some odd down time on Tuesday which could happen).

Edit: note to self: NC people are subscribed to this thread.

 

[stingers]

what

you're gonna be gone from monday to wednesday playing smash?

deaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[KikoMePlease]

when do you usually choose to do the mango dd outside the shield **** and the empty sh into grab ****?

 

[Druggedfox]

Three days of smash... and thus the jealousy sets in...

 

[JPOBS]

when do you usually choose to do the mango dd outside the shield ****

i do this a lot of time after i laser their sheild.
experienced players aent always gonna just let you shl up to them and start pressure. most people will try to punish directly OoS with something like a grab that will get you while your short hopping but before you land/aerial. And marths will often sheild a laser and instant fair Oos. DD quickly can let you evade these things and punish, but still be in aposition to attack if they just sit there.

and the empty sh into grab ****?

this is called a tomahawk. its pretty good to do whenever the hell you feel like cuz people never see it coming because its a great mixup after shl and shffl pressure constantly.

 

[Tero.]

this is called a tomahawk. its pretty good to do whenever the hell you feel like cuz people never see it coming because its a great mixup after shl and shffl pressure constantly.

This is called the Amsah.

 

[JPOBS]

tomahawk isnt specificlaly named after any player, its just silly lingo, like falcon's dropzone

 

[Tero.]

tomahawk isnt specificlaly named after any player, its just silly lingo, like falcon's dropzone

o i c, I always thought tomahawk is a player.
Anyway it's still the Amsah for me (:

 

[Druggedfox]

This is called the Amsah.

**** europeans, get dat **** outta here

Jk jk; Amsah actually amazes me with how effectively he does it. For about the first 1-2 weeks of watching him, I honestly never knew when he was about to do it... so good.

Why's it called a tomahawk anyway... I mean, "amsah" makes a lot of sense... where'd tomahawk come from?

 

[JPOBS]

I dont remember. DJN was explaining it on some video i was watching the other day, i dont exactly remember which or why it was called so.

it was something really random though and unintuitive. appearenty its a pretty old term too just got more popular recently cuz of youtube commentary and such.

 

[FoxLisk]

Let's say your opponent is in the corner in his shield. You expect him to stay there, so you do an aerial at him or something and he rolls out. You have just given up stage control and now it is you who is on the defensive. Or let's say you have the center field, but you run away and shoot lasers, and your opponent pushes you to the edge. That is another example.

naw dawg what you do is aerial their shield and then run back to their roll distance and shine. ****.


also. Yayz empty short hop shine'd me in a falco ditto yesterday auhghhh

 

[omgwtfToph]

naw dawg what you do is aerial their shield and then run back to their roll distance and shine. ****.

Uhh, yes. I was specifically giving examples of "giving up stage control." I'm not saying you should be doing that; quite the opposite.

 

[FoxLisk]

Uhh, yes. I was specifically giving examples of "giving up stage control." I'm not saying you should be doing that; quite the opposite.

i know, i was just saying that example doesnt usually end up in losing stage control because of the followup i described

 

[Sion]

can someone give me some tips vs samus?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGatrzvzdu0

the sound is out of sync btw =\

 

[omgwtfToph]

i know, i was just saying that example doesnt usually end up in losing stage control because of the followup i described

No lol I wasn't saying that you aerial their shield, I was saying that as you do the aerial, they roll out because they picked the right time to roll.

Sion I'll watch later. I played a lot of vs. Samus in Tokyo vs IHSB, and while he largely whooped on me, you're better than me so you could probably apply what I say better than I can LOL

 

[KAOSTAR]

nevermind .

 

[tarheeljks]

can someone give me some tips vs samus?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGatrzvzdu0

the sound is out of sync btw =\

heh i struggle w/the matchup myself and you're def a lot better than me, but i have played w/violence quite a bit so i'll chime in. i've found that falco has to be far more selective than usual about shield pressuring samus due to up b oos. for that reason i like to slow down a bit and whittle samus' shield down a little before approaching, though obv this is harder to do on a stage like fod.

overall i think patience is the name of the game against samus. a lot of the time falco can obv go balls to the wall and crush his opponent w/the pressure, but against samus that can result in just jumping into the ****. medium range lasers (when possible) or short/med range shenanigans near samus' shield for baiting purposes, are both viable options to generate openings.

edit: despite samus oos options, falco can get in on her shield anyway so i don't mean straight up laser camp (although he said tends to struggle more w/campy falcos) but idk just be judicious i guess. empty sh's are also an option once you've been up b'ed a few times but that's not something i've tried against samus. tell violence i say hello btw



i'm actually more interested in hearing your tips if you don't mind lol, or anyone else's for that matter (looking at you peepee)

 

[Sion]

ah, i see. i think i did approach a little to carelessly, so i got up b'd and lost momentum like 50 times lol. i'm used to speeding up my gameplay a lot, but what you say about slowing it down while still keeping mid ranged pressure sounds real good.

i'll be sure to tell him you said hi, haha.

as for my tips vs samus? i actually play samus without any real game plan and hope that my hits connect etc. any gray areas like peach/ics/samus/jiggs happen like that for me. the fuzzier the matchup is for me, the more lasers i shoot it seems.

 

[tarheeljks]

oh also, downtilt is ****, esp when that shield gets small

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggaHS6GgFe4

there's more falco on my page. critique appreciated from falcos.

 

[genkaku]

That sheik just did not feel like fighting back, did she?

 

[M@1funk$hun]

Hey there falco mains, we're discussing the laser bird in the Mario Match-Up thread
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=286647
we're kinda arguing over the rating, so if we could get somebody with Mario experience, that would be a tremendous help
Thanks
P.S. why did so many people have a falco secondary at Apex?

 

[JPOBS]

sion you can combo samus for longer and better if you use uptilt instead of shine in lots of situations.