PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Xyzz]

Did he get punished for it? If not I do want to hear his advice, I get stomped > knee'd if I go for it. Every, single, time. Luckily a mix of ledge dash / lh dair / ledge roll (I don't really like lhdl for some reason) is pretty sufficient anyways :D
Oh and lh > waveland on YS side plats is pretty awesome as well (:

 

[Wretched]

I think you can get up to the platforms on battlefield as well.

 

[Xyzz]

Yeah, you can.
Dunno whether it's possible on BF, but I personally can only get to slide off the YS platform with the waveland, not on BF... and I really like that :D
On BF I sometimes use LH > edge cancelled side b, but I don't really think it's a good option, it just looks nice :D

 

[Bones0]

I just WL onto the plats and shield drop through.

 

[genkaku]

I thought you could only phantasm cancel from ledge on pokemon?

 

[choknater]

it's definitely possible on battlefield. just double jump back a little bit and side b

 

[Vixen]

you can do it on pokemon, DL, BF.

on YS you can go ledge hop > waveland off platform > double jump > illusion cancel off top platform.

FOD is interesting. If you partial shorten you can cancel.

 

[Deleted member]

I like lasering in teams. If I have the middle then I can laser at whoever I'm walling out, as well as laser anyone my teammate is attacking/being attacked by. I can't do more than a couple at a time usually but in teams that's a big commitment anyway.

yeah i don't want to give the impression to not use lasers in teams, but rather that their utility changes.

walling out a character, you can do whatever you want. i cover that in my writing and not in the post. i should be sending it to you this week btw. you generally don't want to laser into a crowd if your teammate is being covered in a 2 vs 1. if you use laser as your best approach into the crowd to stop it, laser to nair or something is fine. if you just sit on the outside of the crowd shooting, you're being walled out and it's SUPER easy to just 2 vs 1 the teammate while getting shot at. lasers don't do nearly enough. as soon as i see a falco in teams, i usually try to 2 vs 1 his teammate to see what falco does. if falco sits outside of the crowd shooting, i keep ****** his teammate because i know he won't do anything effective to stop me. lasers just aren't enough to stop a 2 vs 1. if falco sees his teammate getting ***** and jumps into the fray and starts doing combos, i don't do that **** anymore. it's VERY EASY to use lasers stupidly in teams because they can either be very good or very bad and usually nowhere in-between. even when you do lead in with the laser > nair or something, it's mostly to prevent yourself from getting walled out normally from saving the teammate because it's harder to defend against than usual (falco is still better at attacking than the rest of the cast).

 

[Vixen]

one of my favorite things to do with lasers is to wall someone else out of a 2v1. i.e. me/teammate is edgeguarding, so i start shooting at the other guy to prevent him from running in.

 

[Deleted member]

yeah you can wall someone out however you want to. if the opposing character has ****ty air mobility like ganon it might even be better to just do standing lasers and mash B to waste more of their time.

 

[L__]

fun fact

you can do the illusion platform cancel on battlefield from the ledge too

did everyone know this already?

 

[Mogwai]

fun fact

you can do the illusion platform cancel on battlefield from the ledge too

did everyone know this already?

yes, everyone has known this for at least 4 years now.

 

[choknater]

mogwai nice fox mccloud sig

 

[Dr Peepee]

yeah i don't want to give the impression to not use lasers in teams, but rather that their utility changes.

walling out a character, you can do whatever you want. i cover that in my writing and not in the post. i should be sending it to you this week btw. you generally don't want to laser into a crowd if your teammate is being covered in a 2 vs 1. if you use laser as your best approach into the crowd to stop it, laser to nair or something is fine. if you just sit on the outside of the crowd shooting, you're being walled out and it's SUPER easy to just 2 vs 1 the teammate while getting shot at. lasers don't do nearly enough. as soon as i see a falco in teams, i usually try to 2 vs 1 his teammate to see what falco does. if falco sits outside of the crowd shooting, i keep ****** his teammate because i know he won't do anything effective to stop me. lasers just aren't enough to stop a 2 vs 1. if falco sees his teammate getting ***** and jumps into the fray and starts doing combos, i don't do that **** anymore. it's VERY EASY to use lasers stupidly in teams because they can either be very good or very bad and usually nowhere in-between. even when you do lead in with the laser > nair or something, it's mostly to prevent yourself from getting walled out normally from saving the teammate because it's harder to defend against than usual (falco is still better at attacking than the rest of the cast).

Yeah I start break Wednesday(through Sunday) send it then omg do it then

I've been experimenting with lasers into the crowd(today included) as well. Generally, 1 or 2 lasers is the way to go but it depends on a lot as usual. For conciseness, lasers can be the perfect disrupt needed for your teammate to catch an opponent trying to dodge at an opportune moment and smack them for a team combo/kill safely. They can also be an easy lead to disrupt a 2 v 1 as you mentioned. Since most people shield more in teams, it makes sense that laser to Nair or grab tends to be really effective and hard to dodge in teams as well, making saves in 2 v 1 situations even easier.

yeah you can wall someone out however you want to. if the opposing character has ****ty air mobility like ganon it might even be better to just do standing lasers and mash B to waste more of their time.

It's always fun to shoot, act like you want to team combo, then go hit them as they foolishly run in. Even if they don't fall for the bait the movement surrounding the tactic is just hilarious LMAO.

 

[Deleted member]

It's always fun to shoot, act like you want to team combo, then go hit them as they foolishly run in. Even if they don't fall for the bait the movement surrounding the tactic is just hilarious LMAO.

yeah dude a good wall is like playing with a 3rd teammate. it's just strategically broken.

 

[Divinokage]

I'll show you, broken tactics! If you cant laser like you can in singles, I still think Falco becomes much much easier to deal with. Why shouldn't you go for Falco in general even if there's a Fox? If Falco can disrupt **** from far then it's better to kill him early. In teams, you'll definitely always be pressured in one way or another.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

kevins lasers are fun to play teams with. i wish i was better at taking the lead to be able to play ganon 2v1 + perfect laser assistance. so much fun could be had.

 

[Divinokage]

If the Falco is so good that he never gets hit.. well.. ya.. lol.

 

[whitemountain123]

@peepee

I'm struggling with how to act vs peach in the neutral game, so I've been (re)watching a bunch of you vs Armada to get some ideas.

As far as I can tell, you hardly approach Armada when he floats. Instead, you often dd, wait for him to come out of his float (often dding away from his attack), and then try to get better stage positioning or counterattack. Sometimes you laser his float too, but you hardly attack it directly. Then, once he's grounded you usually go in hard with nair or grab or something like that.

So, when do you think it's worth challenging peach's float, if at all? Do you think what I summarized is accurate and a good general gameplan for peach?

Thanks

---Hart

Edit: What do you think of aerialing off a platform into peaches float after throwing in a few lasers and dds first to disguise it? In theory, it sounds good to me, but I seem to get outspaced when I jump off of platforms.

 

[Bones0]

I wouldn't jump at a floating Peach at all. If she just outprioritizes you with fair or trades with nair, you get knocked down/off stage and potentially 02d. Even if you hit her clean, you're not really getting any solid followup.

 

[Wretched]

A lot of Falcos are programmed to use uair in situations that they're comfortable with. It took Falcos a long time to start uairing through platforms and stuff like that, and I still feel like it is an underutilized move.

You can approach Peach while she is floating above your lasers. Just do shuffled uairs. It won't reach a full hop floating peach, but it'll get peaches floating above the platform on Yoshi's, Fountain, Poke, and BF.

If Peach floats near the ground, laser her. If she full hop floats, run away and just wait her out. You will get a laser or some other punish when she comes down. If she floats above platforms or just above max short hop laser height, run at her and shuffle a uair.

 

[Dr Peepee]

@peepee

I'm struggling with how to act vs peach in the neutral game, so I've been (re)watching a bunch of you vs Armada to get some ideas.

As far as I can tell, you hardly approach Armada when he floats. Instead, you often dd, wait for him to come out of his float (often dding away from his attack), and then try to get better stage positioning or counterattack. Sometimes you laser his float too, but you hardly attack it directly. Then, once he's grounded you usually go in hard with nair or grab or something like that.

So, when do you think it's worth challenging peach's float, if at all? Do you think what I summarized is accurate and a good general gameplan for peach?

Thanks

---Hart

Edit: What do you think of aerialing off a platform into peaches float after throwing in a few lasers and dds first to disguise it? In theory, it sounds good to me, but I seem to get outspaced when I jump off of platforms.

Yeah that's a pretty accurate summary. I generally don't want to challenge Peach's float because she can react to your approach pretty easily and spaced Fair is pretty tough to challenge. However, I think if you can catch Peach floating into you then she can't switch positions very quickly and you can get a running FH Nair(watch how Mango did it in crews at apex) or maybe walking up angled Ftilt.
This all, of course, depends on how Peach is using her float and how you manipulate it. If you can, try to get under her and Utilt/Bair so Peach will be afraid to float so much or will at least get comboed and make her hesitate to approach more, giving you a free in.

Jumping off of platforms is pretty telegraphed, so use tricky movement/lasers when coming off of them to lead to a hit/grab.

 

[Crooked Crow]

i would actually be ok if you just said what you thought about me.

Are you transgendered?

And if so, can you post pictures?

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

Why doesn't EC have falcos? Did none just show up to ROM? All I can think of are stric (did badly), and thorn (didn't go). Maybe chops but I think he is deep into retirement lol

 

[S l o X]

You pretty much named the only two Falcos that are good.

wish th0rn went because i would like to see how he does on a bigger scale than our locals.

 

[unknown522]

Omg stric got ***** by europhoria (apparently stric called him a random scrub after losing?) really hard from what I hear.

Then I had to play him...(euro, due to regional seeding fail...)

I almost lost to chain-ace in pools though

 

[Europhoria]

Omg stric got ***** by europhoria (apparently stric called him a random scrub after losing?) really hard from what I hear.

Then I had to play him...(euro, due to regional seeding fail...)

I almost lost to chain-ace in pools though

Did he really?

 

[unknown522]

From what I heard. Not sure if true

 

[Bones0]

I thought tristate had a reputation for being beastly vs. Falco.

 

[Squirt]

Hey I was looking for some frame data that I didn't see in the guide.

How much time in frames are you vulnerable before you can shield or spot dodge or anything after teching in place, get up attack, or techrolling? (For falco)

I ask because usually I can easily get a fsmash in on people if I read what they are doing regarding teching but one player I played recently could always get his shield up somehow in time. I obviously am not as tight as I could be in the timing but I was just curious because it baffled me that he could get his shield up in time.

 

[Xyzz]

Falco

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 14.4 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 14.4 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 17-19 (Front), 24-26 (Behind)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 19-20 (Behind), 25-26 (Front)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 12.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 8
Distance: 12.6 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 12
Distance: 12.8 ft
Invincible: 12-29 (Not a typo. If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless an attack is timed on that exact frame)

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 5
Distance: 12.6 ft
Invincible: 1-24
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------

10MagusQuote

edit: urghs... most neutral tech vulnerability is 6 frames unless for some obscure weird characters (Pikachu / Pichu have only two).

 

[Bones0]

I will add that into the guide...


As soon as I stop being lazy.

 

[Squirt]

10MagusQuote

edit: urghs... most neutral tech vulnerability is 6 frames unless for some obscure weird characters (Pikachu / Pichu have only two).

Sweet thanks!

@bones any chance we could get the hitboxes too?

 

[Bones0]

I didn't collect the hitbox images. I just made the thread. Sorry.

 

[whitemountain123]

Yeah that's a pretty accurate summary. I generally don't want to challenge Peach's float because she can react to your approach pretty easily and spaced Fair is pretty tough to challenge. However, I think if you can catch Peach floating into you then she can't switch positions very quickly and you can get a running FH Nair(watch how Mango did it in crews at apex) or maybe walking up angled Ftilt.
This all, of course, depends on how Peach is using her float and how you manipulate it. If you can, try to get under her and Utilt/Bair so Peach will be afraid to float so much or will at least get comboed and make her hesitate to approach more, giving you a free in.

Jumping off of platforms is pretty telegraphed, so use tricky movement/lasers when coming off of them to lead to a hit/grab.

Ok, thanks (and thanks to bones and wretched too). That all helps a lot, now just a question of whether I can apply it lol

 

[Squirt]

I didn't collect the hitbox images. I just made the thread. Sorry.

Where do the hbox images come from?

 

[bolt.]

PP how well does rising bair oos vs peaches float work? I saw you do it vs armada during pound 5. It seems to do well vs fair because fair takes a while to come out. So were you trying to bait the fair with shield and then beat it out with rising bair or does that not work. It seems kind of risky compared to wavedash oos.

 

[Dr Peepee]

PP how well does rising bair oos vs peaches float work? I saw you do it vs armada during pound 5. It seems to do well vs fair because fair takes a while to come out. So were you trying to bait the fair with shield and then beat it out with rising bair or does that not work. It seems kind of risky compared to wavedash oos.

Uhh it can work but it could also trade or whiff depending on how Peach sets up her Fair.

Kings of Cali post coming tomorrow btw. =)

 

[Bones0]

What's to talk about? You pooped on everyone and carried the legendary King of Smash to 3rd place.

 

[LLDL]

Did he really?

No he didn't call you a random scrub, he called you a random marth, but he doesn't keep up with the scene so didn't know who you were. I explained to him you were a fairly high level Canadian marth and then he gave you your props.