PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Xyzz]

If I do that, I have to sacrifice either my bed or my shower with it lol. Student apartments <3 :D

 

[Vixen]

I might be selling most of my audio stuff for whomever is interested. looking to get higher end stuff and I have a bunch of odds and ends piling up.

$50 for the floor standing speakers
$55 for the hesh
$60 for the grados
$60 for repaired hisoundaudio golden
crystal (retails at $200)
$60 for zune hd.

looking to buy higher end akg headphones, and higher end pioneer or krk monitors.

also need to buy furniture in like a month and a half lool

 

[~Twitch~]

Can someone (Peepee, Kirbykaze, Unknown, Leffen, I dunno) tell me about the merits of ground teching (holding down when you get hit with, say, Falco's dair or shine and pressing L or R) to invalidate some of Falco's combo strength? In friendlies today, I feel like I was able to ground tech dairs and shine relatively consistently to deny combos (around the percents where dair would knock you over, or shine if you hold down). I see this partially in ASDI down when people get hit by shines sometimes and fall to the ground (doubleshine beats this though).

Am I remembering this wrong, and you can't do this? Do people already do this, and I'm just really slow? Cause it seems like it'd be a legit way to turn a death combo into 15-20% harmless percent (that is, if you ground tech > roll away) instead of going "waaaaaah Falco's combos are OP."

Again, if I'm derping super hard somewhere in here, please lemme know.

LOL

yeah kevin, tell him about it.

but yeah, you don't really need to know at what specific percents it works at; that's useless information. what IS useful is whenever you get hit by a dair at liiiike greater than 40? just hold down and press R (or L if you're a ******) like you're going to tech it.

the reason i say this is cuz...anytime falco hits a dair and pops you up...it's a free combo. a good falco will be able to combo you from any DI you choose to execute. so...just hold down...an press R/L. it makes life so much easier.

idk about the shine teching...i may have done it a few times but i'm not totally sure when it works or whatever. test it out yourself.

 

[Vixen]

impulse bought more headphones.

 

[Dr Peepee]

ground teching's sweeeeet

turns guaranteed combo move into guessing, plus people can tech out of certain parts of their tech roll which is DUMBBBB(shut up alex)

people don't do it much at all but they should. it can occasionally creare better combos for falco but that is very rarely the case lol.

double shine doesn't beat ASDI'ing shine down if shine is staled btw

 

[Mahone]

mahone with the good advice.

I wanna go to apex mahone take me with you!!! or at least somewhere.. I'm getting my spark plugs (200 dollars because you have to remove some stupid mount on a camry 97 to reach the rear 3)replaced soon so maybe i can even drive. I can remove the front 3 on my own but...

my car will still be a wreck but it will be better at least. (500 they said to replace the exhaust valve but since the engine burns oil it will just get drenched in oil again) does anyone know if there are any dangers to having a bad exhaust?

well, best case scenario, you die and go to heaven (it doesn't count as a sd so ur good)

and worse case scenario, you go to a smash tourney... which is pretty bad, but you might get some ken combos so idk


i can't give u a ride though, ur not ready yet... keep training and maybe one day

 

[Deleted member]

I have Grado SR125s and RS1s. They're amazing.

never tried the 60s though

 

[Vixen]

Umbreon is the bro, like always.

All grado headphones measure very similarly. SR60 have the most balanced frequency chart out of all its siblings, but the second lowest in detail retrieval, only the iGrado's having worse.

Note that the SR60 detail retrieval is 90% of Grado flagships. Audio is the worst when it comes to diminishing returns. Also, SR60 are often the target of heavy modding due to simplicity of design, and relative inexpense.

I just bought these today:

Focusrite VRM. don't let the ****ty DSP VRMs fool you. There is a very beefy amplifier, and an extremely capable cirrus audio bus hidden in the small little thing. I run it without the software specifically to be used as a usb dac/amplifier.

Headphones are Japanese import Audio Technica ATH-T400. Certain stores in the US imported them (Sears, some pro audio stores.)

They're basically the T500 but the only difference being that the T500 uses better materials (Aluminum for the back instead of matte plastic, and a higher quality faux leather for the padding. SQ-wise, they're indistinguishable. Being newer drivers, I maintain that these sound better than their older brother, the M series. They definitely swing above the M50 level while sitting pretty at a $60-$70 MSRB.

These are very mid-centric headphones, and respond favorably to EQ and amplification. They can change their sound from sounding like AKG/KRK/Grado to being bass canons like the Sony XB series.

...Definitely selling my Hesh and Grados.

 

[Divinokage]

So then if someone can interpret my post correctly but then some other cannot, who can I really blame? The player that doesnt understand or what?

 

[Vixen]

Kage is the homie even if his posts are ambiguous

 

[ShroudedOne]

LOL

yeah kevin, tell him about it.

but yeah, you don't really need to know at what specific percents it works at; that's useless information. what IS useful is whenever you get hit by a dair at liiiike greater than 40? just hold down and press R (or L if you're a ******) like you're going to tech it.

the reason i say this is cuz...anytime falco hits a dair and pops you up...it's a free combo. a good falco will be able to combo you from any DI you choose to execute. so...just hold down...an press R/L. it makes life so much easier.

idk about the shine teching...i may have done it a few times but i'm not totally sure when it works or whatever. test it out yourself.

ground teching's sweeeeet

turns guaranteed combo move into guessing, plus people can tech out of certain parts of their tech roll which is DUMBBBB(shut up alex)

people don't do it much at all but they should. it can occasionally creare better combos for falco but that is very rarely the case lol.

double shine doesn't beat ASDI'ing shine down if shine is staled btw

Ok, just making sure. Yeah, after 40 was what I noticed for dair after I dair shined a few things in practice today. And that's good to know about double shine (though it's never been used against me to counter ASDI down anyways). Thanks.

@Mizuki: It's super risky trying to do that to Peach's downsmash, but you get tons of payoff. I believe you might be able to ground tech the first hit of her downsmash into a shine? (and be protected from the other hits cause of tech + shine invuln? more testing is needed)

 

[Ballin]

By playing against a level 9 computer, I realized just how many holes falco's laser game/approach has.

So for the basic approaches: if I laser from mid distance and try to close in to approach with a dair or nair, the cpu will hit me after the laser stun just by taking it directly and jabbing lol.
If I go in for a close up laser into shine or grab, by the time i get that close, my laser is just about to come out, but not fast enough before they hit me.
Maybe it's just I'm not good enough with falco yet, but I've tried a lot these past few days, and the cpu can always hit me out of my approaches.

 

[Ballin]

and when i play falco, when someone just walks up to me, I get so ****ing scared. It's like i have no options when I'm not spamming the **** out of my lasers. I might go back to marth... idk how PP does it lol...

 

[Divinokage]

Kage is the homie even if his posts are ambiguous

Mmmm.. unlike other people here, I can't express myself very well but I keep trying. If it really doesn't work then I just say things along the lines of inspiration/motivation.. at least with those I'm very good at doing until people call me crazy lol.

 

[Strong Badam]

I come in here after a smashfest and you birds are talking about headphones
Man what

 

[Vixen]

Mahone made an offhand comment about me being a beats user. Had to lay down the law.

 

[Xyzz]

By playing against a level 9 computer, I realized just how many holes falco's laser game/approach has.

So for the basic approaches: if I laser from mid distance and try to close in to approach with a dair or nair, the cpu will hit me after the laser stun just by taking it directly and jabbing lol.
If I go in for a close up laser into shine or grab, by the time i get that close, my laser is just about to come out, but not fast enough before they hit me.
Maybe it's just I'm not good enough with falco yet, but I've tried a lot these past few days, and the cpu can always hit me out of my approaches.

Laser > late aerial is super fraudulent.
Laser > shine / ftilt at the correct spacings are guaranteed, I think, unless you screw up. (if you get the laser obviously, Falco luckily is not a magical monster that can guarantee to get shines whenever he wants to :D)

 

[Deleted member]

Mahone made an offhand comment about me being a beats user. Had to lay down the law.

honestly i didn't think the beats were as bad as everyone makes them out to be. they're overpriced for what you can get, and the sound definitely caters to a specific type of music, but i think it does what it was supposed to do pretty well.

i'd still rather have the grados obviously, but not everyone can just blow $700 on headphones.

 

[Vixen]

beats aren't bad hardware but a. I'm not fond of that signature and b. thwyre horribly marked up due to marketing.

my biggest issues with beats were subpar instrument separation, imaging, and scooped mids.

 

[Bones0]

Laser > late aerial is super fraudulent.
Laser > shine / ftilt at the correct spacings are guaranteed, I think, unless you screw up. (if you get the laser obviously, Falco luckily is not a magical monster that can guarantee to get shines whenever he wants to :D)

I'm pretty sure if they shield your laser, nothing will truly be safe. If the laser does hit, then you can just see what combos in training mode. I think the only moves that will combo are grab, shine, jab, utilt, ftilt, and dtilt (which is def the hardest). You can also combo into aerials if you ledge cancel the laser. :3

 

[Xyzz]

laser > turnaround uptilt or edge cancelled lasers > aerial would earn you soooo many style points :D

Also: have you ever been punished for laser on shield > shine / ftilt (without power shielding of course)? I can't recall a single instance of these happening :x

 

[Vixen]

laser ftilt and laser shinegrab are always safe except rarely vs marth of they fair perfectly after shield.di in

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

Hey, when Marth is too high percent to be followed up on after Uthrow, does anyone else ever full hop -> up B and try to snipe him as he comes down? hahaha

It sounds dumb but at certain angles/distances, it's really hard for marth to stop since he's above you, and it results in certain death if it hits. Also, if you absolutely think they'll stop it then you can always go back down to the stage and still have time to punish him falling lol

edit: also marth players HATE getting hit by it ROFL

 

[Dark Hart]

hey guys

how practical do you all feel uptilt/shine -> uair -> spike should be vs... just in general I guess

 

[genkaku]

I don't understand the benefit of spamming lasers other than to make someone mad at you. Shouldn't they just be a supplement to good spacing/as an insurance tool?

mizuki, what do you think of tma-1s?

 

[Vixen]

I havemt gotten to demo many iems

 

[Dr Peepee]

Hey, when Marth is too high percent to be followed up on after Uthrow, does anyone else ever full hop -> up B and try to snipe him as he comes down? hahaha

It sounds dumb but at certain angles/distances, it's really hard for marth to stop since he's above you, and it results in certain death if it hits. Also, if you absolutely think they'll stop it then you can always go back down to the stage and still have time to punish him falling lol

edit: also marth players HATE getting hit by it ROFL

man that is meaaannn

but I do it as a troll, unsure if I'd attempt in a tournament match when I could just Bair him and pretty much get a kill anyway lol.

hey guys

how practical do you all feel uptilt/shine -> uair -> spike should be vs... just in general I guess

the mango combo vs FF'ers on platform stages? yeah it's pretty darn good

I don't understand the benefit of spamming lasers other than to make someone mad at you. Shouldn't they just be a supplement to good spacing/as an insurance tool?

mizuki, what do you think of tma-1s?

depends on how you spam

 

[Bones0]

Hey, when Marth is too high percent to be followed up on after Uthrow, does anyone else ever full hop -> up B and try to snipe him as he comes down? hahaha

It sounds dumb but at certain angles/distances, it's really hard for marth to stop since he's above you, and it results in certain death if it hits. Also, if you absolutely think they'll stop it then you can always go back down to the stage and still have time to punish him falling lol

edit: also marth players HATE getting hit by it ROFL

Out of uthrow I would just bair because it's easier, but in other situations I do it occasionally. I try to only do it in center stage though, so it's a pretty rare scenario for them to be at the center of the top blast zone. If you can space and time it properly though, it trades with virtually every aerial. I love it. It's especially good vs. Jiggs since she has such good aerial movement and will die from it at ridiculous %s. And I would go for it in tourney because I'm not a pansy.

hey guys

how practical do you all feel uptilt/shine -> uair -> spike should be vs... just in general I guess

Like SHFFLing a uair and then FH spiking? Or are you talking about that jank thing where you FH uair and only single hit on your way up, and then you come down on top of them with a dair?

 

[KirbyKaze]

WOAH

kk, the homosexual, spittin fire with noted disrespect to mizukis transgenderism/general legit call out either way

this is interesting, to say the least

I actually just... don't keep up with AZ's scene and haven't read any of Mizuki's posts or threads on it so I legitimately didn't know >.>

@ Mizuki

It's largely small things that add up. You do your aerial approaches basically one of two ways when you're attacking him. You either get to a certain distance and then SH a late dair or nair (FF after doing the move, aim to hit with the tip of your SHFFL range) or you cross up into u-tilt. Your opponent seems really comfortable with avoiding the former and shielding the latter. I think you need more variety in how you approach him and the following mixup.

I also think you're genuinely uncomfortable with positioning & timing your moves in relation to his. On a bunch of combo break attempts he comes down with nair and you attempt to intercept with bair. Not a bad play, but the problem is that you're doing the FJ bair kind of late so you don't get the bair out fast enough and he nudges you first. There are other examples like this, but that one stood out for some reason. I'm not really sure how you can correct something like this though aside from just getting a better feel for movement, attack speeds, and hitboxes interact. Which likely means... just trying to get it right until you can. I didn't notice many consistent patterns in these kinds of exchanges that would cause you to lose them so it's likely a combination of things.

 

[Deleted member]

WOAH

kk, the homosexual, spittin fire with noted disrespect to mizukis transgenderism/general legit call out either way

this is interesting, to say the least

i wasn't aware that orientation had anything to do with one's opinion on a completely unrelated subject.

/logic holes

 

[unknown522]

Hey, when Marth is too high percent to be followed up on after Uthrow, does anyone else ever full hop -> up B and try to snipe him as he comes down? hahaha

It sounds dumb but at certain angles/distances, it's really hard for marth to stop since he's above you, and it results in certain death if it hits. Also, if you absolutely think they'll stop it then you can always go back down to the stage and still have time to punish him falling lol

edit: also marth players HATE getting hit by it ROFL

so you try that at like 200% then?

 

[Squirt]

I mentioned something I am experiencing occasionally with v4extreme while playing friendlies, and I thought I'd bring it here for discusion:

There are rare times while playing that I reach a higher caliber, when I am doing exactly what I want to do at the very maximum of my ability utilizing all my techskill. When every choice I make is the right one. It almost seems like I'm perceiving, deducing, and reacting all at the same time. Very rarely do I get this but usually it last for a short burst anywhere from a stock to a match. It's like I'm playing at the peek of my potential. It is in these times that everything just seems so simple like a chess game.

It is so easy to write it off as just coincidence or luck, and the reason being because I almost can't control it as if you're just riding out a wave or directing it, it's not really me but a better version of me taking control for just a little while. I've always written it off but lately something inside me is saying, "No, that's the real me that I'm trying to unlock or release, trying to dig down to."

Does this sound crazy or does anyone else experience something like this?

Along with this we discussed how the best type of counters are those that are instinctual, when that best move is programmed into you so well, it just makes sense. Try as you may, memorized counters are just not as good if it doesn't "feel" right or comfortable as you play.

What are your guys's thoughts on this?

 

[Vixen]

Thanks for the input Kk. That gives me more to think about.

 

[Van.]

Nevami ndd

 

[Bones0]

I mentioned something I am experiencing occasionally with v4extreme while playing friendlies, and I thought I'd bring it here for discusion:

There are rare times while playing that I reach a higher caliber, when I am doing exactly what I want to do at the very maximum of my ability utilizing all my techskill. When every choice I make is the right one. It almost seems like I'm perceiving, deducing, and reacting all at the same time. Very rarely do I get this but usually it last for a short burst anywhere from a stock to a match. It's like I'm playing at the peek of my potential. It is in these times that everything just seems so simple like a chess game.

It is so easy to write it off as just coincidence or luck, and the reason being because I almost can't control it as if you're just riding out a wave or directing it, it's not really me but a better version of me taking control for just a little while. I've always written it off but lately something inside me is saying, "No, that's the real me that I'm trying to unlock or release, trying to dig down to."

Does this sound crazy or does anyone else experience something like this?

Along with this we discussed how the best type of counters are those that are instinctual, when that best move is programmed into you so well, it just makes sense. Try as you may, memorized counters are just not as good if it doesn't "feel" right or comfortable as you play.

What are your guys's thoughts on this?

I think this is a natural part of getting better. When you're bad, you still know how to handle a few situations really well and without thinking. As you get better, you begin to compile more and more situations and what you need to do. You learn how to properly combo in certain ways, how to approach based on what you've previously conditioned them to expect, etc. So I think those moments where you are just going TURBO is just the chance occurrence where you play efficiently through 10-20 scenarios (as small as a split second). I also believe that the reason people drop stuff in these moments isn't even so much that they choke, but rather they just aren't as used to that ending scenario. If you've 0-death'd people off of a particular type of combo a hundred times, then you are well prepared to do it again. If 0-deaths are a rare treat for you, then when you pull off 90% of a 0-death, you aren't (always) choking, but rather you haven't experienced that last 10% transition often enough to comfortably move through it. So in a sense, your gameplay begins to stack like when you played Pokemon and had to use those teleporters in Team Rocket's hideout to get to the Master Ball. At first you just start taking random teleporters because experimenting is the only way to know what you're working with. Then you start learning which ports are dead ends, and you will get a rough idea of an order to take them in. So you begin listing them: the one in the corner, the one by the plant, the one by the guard, BOOM, wrong guess. Again: the one in the corner, the one by the plant, the one by the guard, the one to the left, BOOM, another dead end. Until finally you've gone through the sequence so many times that you are breezing through parts that you had struggled with just minutes earlier.

God damn I miss playing Pokemon.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

so you try that at like 200% then?

I'll try it if they're past around 130 or 140 and I don't think I'll get a strong follow up.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Hey, when Marth is too high percent to be followed up on after Uthrow, does anyone else ever full hop -> up B and try to snipe him as he comes down? hahaha

It sounds dumb but at certain angles/distances, it's really hard for marth to stop since he's above you, and it results in certain death if it hits. Also, if you absolutely think they'll stop it then you can always go back down to the stage and still have time to punish him falling lol

edit: also marth players HATE getting hit by it ROFL

lol I wonder who this post is reffering to

...

;_;

 

[Dr Peepee]

I mentioned something I am experiencing occasionally with v4extreme while playing friendlies, and I thought I'd bring it here for discusion:

There are rare times while playing that I reach a higher caliber, when I am doing exactly what I want to do at the very maximum of my ability utilizing all my techskill. When every choice I make is the right one. It almost seems like I'm perceiving, deducing, and reacting all at the same time. Very rarely do I get this but usually it last for a short burst anywhere from a stock to a match. It's like I'm playing at the peek of my potential. It is in these times that everything just seems so simple like a chess game.

It is so easy to write it off as just coincidence or luck, and the reason being because I almost can't control it as if you're just riding out a wave or directing it, it's not really me but a better version of me taking control for just a little while. I've always written it off but lately something inside me is saying, "No, that's the real me that I'm trying to unlock or release, trying to dig down to."

Does this sound crazy or does anyone else experience something like this?

Along with this we discussed how the best type of counters are those that are instinctual, when that best move is programmed into you so well, it just makes sense. Try as you may, memorized counters are just not as good if it doesn't "feel" right or comfortable as you play.

What are your guys's thoughts on this?

Not in the mood to write right now, but this should happen to anyone trying to improve. It's you tapping into your intuitive knowledge and really flowing with the match. I believe that this state can be recreated more often than is naturally experienced as long as one is motivated enough by whatever causes them to go into this state in the first place.

Most older top players(Ken, Isai, Azen) couldn't verbalize their thoughts very well but could flow really well. It led to them having really good and really bad moments. Newer top players like myself seem to be more....rational I suppose, but this comes at the potential cost of losing that flow state. I'm sort of guessing there though, as I don't really understand intuitive knowledge and am currently of the opinion that I couldn't explain it even if I did know about it.


This post was a jumble but I wanted to write about it anyway because it's an extremely interesting topic and I thought about it recently.


Personally, I don't flow too much and I'd like to change that. That finishing combo on M2K at RoM3 and some of my games vs Armada at SR were times when I was flowing and it felt amazing.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

you need to change your tag to flowinWind or something.

flowinwater is already taken, of course.

 

[Stevo]

FlowinUrine