PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[leffen]

haha some other time, its getting late and I still have some school stuff to do

after I've studied old jman videos /procrastination ftw

 

[Dr Peepee]

dude I wrote laser things don't be that way

 

[tarheeljks]

smashboards has been hot lately. Kage vs Wes, Leffen vs Armada, Mango nation, etc etc. Daaamn.

From what I notie though, kage usually gets blown up whenever he talks **** about how he's going to beat someone (like vs S2j, or vs KK). But when he just shuts his mouth and shows up, he usually gets top 5 or something.

That said, Wes is gonna poop on him cuz he jynxed himself lol

Leffen vs armada?

 

[JPOBS]

them two been blowing it up all over the place recently. l2smashboards scrub

 

[unknown522]

Lol

 

[tarheeljks]

thanks for answering the question i guess

 

[Divinokage]

You using a fraudulent secondary isn't a real money match.

Fraudulent? You know nothing! My alts are now strong enough to take on a lot of people.

 

[Vixen]

Hey guys. Any critique for my bird? This is probably my first really serious training session since April.

Vs Falco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4sjhYRU4Qg
Vs Fox: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ocIWsVaDZ
Vs Sheik (problem match up) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLf8SsKg3x4

If anyone willing to help can watch maybe 2-3 games vs each character, and at different time points, it would give you guys a much better view of my gameplay as a whole. The way I play game 1 might not be the same at game 2, let alone game 10, so just looking at one single game will not give adequate material to really critique my falco, in my humble opinion.

You guys don't have to, but I would really appreciate it!

 

[Xyzz]

You could add links to the match starts, if you want people to watch at different time points

edit: skimmed a bit through the dittos, my main gripe would be edge guarding. Especially rolls onto the stage if the other guy will clearly land on the stage with his fire bird (some of these are REAALLLLY obvious in the matches) are quite possibly the easiest way to not only hand him a free return but also the invitation to combo you in return, and you drop far too many other pretty easy ones for my tastes too.

 

[Wenbobular]

Vs Sheik you do a lot of crossup Nairs on his shield that get you nothing
Also you rarely grab him when you approach or try to cover his roll (at least in the first 3)
Don't shine when you're out of range

Also you randomly just die to stuff
Most commonly doing terrible ledgehop lasers
Also walljump Bair on Yoshi's is mad basic by everyone with a walljump, don't just hang on the ledge when they can do it and survive <_<

Also quitting out a bunch during friendlies isn't really productive

 

[Mahone]

Hey guys. Any critique for my bird? This is probably my first really serious training session since April.

Vs Falco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4sjhYRU4Qg
Vs Fox: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ocIWsVaDZ
Vs Sheik (problem match up) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLf8SsKg3x4

If anyone willing to help can watch maybe 2-3 games vs each character, and at different time points, it would give you guys a much better view of my gameplay as a whole. The way I play game 1 might not be the same at game 2, let alone game 10, so just looking at one single game will not give adequate material to really critique my falco, in my humble opinion.

You guys don't have to, but I would really appreciate it!

vs falco

im not sure how to put this, but you do a lot of "good player stuff", but at the completely wrong time... like you just know its a good option, but don't seem to understand why (and before you ask, im not gonna find an example)

also you laser anytime you are not doing anything... you just laser way too much, instead just reposition or just wait or something, those kind of lasers are awful

some tech skill mistakes i guess, a lot of rolls, a lot poor decisions when getting sheild pressured, just hoping to counter attack all the time

the main thing id tell you is to SLOW DOWN... i think if u played very platform campy and few WELL-PLACED lasers for a while, you would start to do much better... if you want to play as aggressive as you are you need to space a lot better... i know thats harsh, but its the truth

 

[Vixen]

thanks for the feedback.everyone.

mahone: most of the bad oos decisions are legit just bad execution. what happened in the match and what I attempted usually weren't one and the same. lots of failed wd back oos, lots of failed Dair and shine oos when I saw the opportunity.

I'm really bad at feeling out shield stun.

could you point out where I should have slowed down? when I rewatch the matches I get the feeling that I'm not playing fast enough. so being told to slow down is something new to me.

wenbob: sorry about quitting out, but I was far too frustrated to losing an average of 3 stocks a game to things like execution errors, or old habits I haven't broken yet to finish out those games.

 

[Bones0]

Try using that new AR code where your character turns white during shieldstun.

 

[Vixen]

I don't own a tv, cube, melee, or ar. I only play at okamis or johns.

 

[Mahone]

thanks for the feedback.everyone.

mahone: most of the bad oos decisions are legit just bad execution. what happened in the match and what I attempted usually weren't one and the same. lots of failed wd back oos, lots of failed Dair and shine oos when I saw the opportunity.

I'm really bad at feeling out shield stun.

could you point out where I should have slowed down? when I rewatch the matches I get the feeling that I'm not playing fast enough. so being told to slow down is something new to me.

wenbob: sorry about quitting out, but I was far too frustrated to losing an average of 3 stocks a game to things like execution errors, or old habits I haven't broken yet to finish out those games.

ya, A LOT of the issues were only due to tech skill... i could definitely tell that, just like a lot of rolls are messed up shield angles in my experience


i guess the answer to ur 2nd question is answered by what i just said... if u slow it down, u'll make less execution errors, so until you are super comfortable doing what u wanna do, try slowing it down

its much better to do less correctly than more with tech errors. ESPECIALLY in falco dittos, which are the only ones i watched (it said the fox vid was removed)

i understand why u still tried to play fast, cuz friendlies are where u learn and experiment, but it was hard to find non-techskill errors so i just said that anyways

your platform camping was really bad, you were too aggressive imo, and i think platform camping is very important for falco to get strong first hits, thats all i can remember now

 

[ShroudedOne]

Can someone (Peepee, Kirbykaze, Unknown, Leffen, I dunno) tell me about the merits of ground teching (holding down when you get hit with, say, Falco's dair or shine and pressing L or R) to invalidate some of Falco's combo strength? In friendlies today, I feel like I was able to ground tech dairs and shine relatively consistently to deny combos (around the percents where dair would knock you over, or shine if you hold down). I see this partially in ASDI down when people get hit by shines sometimes and fall to the ground (doubleshine beats this though).

Am I remembering this wrong, and you can't do this? Do people already do this, and I'm just really slow? Cause it seems like it'd be a legit way to turn a death combo into 15-20% harmless percent (that is, if you ground tech > roll away) instead of going "waaaaaah Falco's combos are OP."

Again, if I'm derping super hard somewhere in here, please lemme know.

 

[Vixen]

ya, A LOT of the issues were only due to tech skill... i could definitely tell that, just like a lot of rolls are messed up shield angles in my experience


i guess the answer to ur 2nd question is answered by what i just said... if u slow it down, u'll make less execution errors, so until you are super comfortable doing what u wanna do, try slowing it down

its much better to do less correctly than more with tech errors. ESPECIALLY in falco dittos, which are the only ones i watched (it said the fox vid was removed)

i understand why u still tried to play fast, cuz friendlies are where u learn and experiment, but it was hard to find non-techskill errors so i just said that anyways

your platform camping was really bad, you were too aggressive imo, and i think platform camping is very important for falco to get strong first hits, thats all i can remember now

Yeah, I don't feel comfortable platform camping as falco. Tried to force myself to try it as often as possible. I'm an old player so I come from the era of "center stage is always the best" for falco instead of the more newfangled "fish for good bairs" strategy.

Thanks for the feedback, again. I have some good ideas to work with.

If I were to slow it down, though: What would be the best way to deal with other aggressive players? My biggest weakness as a player is just not knowing how to deal with hyper aggro****. I try for wd/shine oos/angling my shield but in the heat of a match they typically turn in to randy spot dodges/bad rolls/accidental full jumps.

Can someone (Peepee, Kirbykaze, Unknown, Leffen, I dunno) tell me about the merits of ground teching (holding down when you get hit with, say, Falco's dair or shine and pressing L or R) to invalidate some of Falco's combo strength? In friendlies today, I feel like I was able to ground tech dairs and shine relatively consistently to deny combos (around the percents where dair would knock you over, or shine if you hold down). I see this partially in ASDI down when people get hit by shines sometimes and fall to the ground (doubleshine beats this though).

Am I remembering this wrong, and you can't do this? Do people already do this, and I'm just really slow? Cause it seems like it'd be a legit way to turn a death combo into 15-20% harmless percent (that is, if you ground tech > roll away) instead of going "waaaaaah Falco's combos are OP."

Again, if I'm derping super hard somewhere in here, please lemme know.

I may not be them, but I do know a fair bit about groundteching.

Not a whole lot of people do this. See, if you accidentally crouch cancel, you can't do this to dair, because you'll be stunned, but not fall. You have to be ASDI/SDI'ing down, without being in the crouch animation to groundtech falco technology.

Also it's not just falco. It's legit the safest way to deal with Peach dsmash. groundteching, then rolling in the direction of the dsmash momentum will send you out of range of absolutely everything she can do.

 

[Vixen]

sorry, double post.

tapatalk doesn't let me edit posts.

^done from computer.

 

[Bones0]

I may not be them, but I do know a fair bit about groundteching.

Not a whole lot of people do this. See, if you accidentally crouch cancel, you can't do this to dair, because you'll be stunned, but not fall. You have to be ASDI/SDI'ing down, without being in the crouch animation to groundtech falco technology.

Also it's not just falco. It's legit the safest way to deal with Peach dsmash. groundteching, then rolling in the direction of the dsmash momentum will send you out of range of absolutely everything she can do.

If you CC the dair, you can just straight up counter anyway. My main problem is getting the tech without shielding. Should I try using Z instead of L so that I grab and then an able to tech?

I will have to try that vs. dsmash, but it seems like they'd be able to simply dash attack you after. Maybe it only works on the slow tech rolls.

 

[Divinokage]

Vs aggressive opponents instead of shielding which they generally make you do, counter-attack him! If you can predict his move then you can basically choose any angles to attack him from.. either go above his hitbox and hit him above, or straight up beat his hitbox horizontally with your own move.. or like jump over and hit him in the back.. idk, there's endless possibilities.

 

[Bones0]

What Kage is trying to say is to spam utilt.

 

[Divinokage]

Bair, Nair, dair, utilt, dtilt, ftilt.. idk man... USE YOUR MOVES!

 

[Vixen]

If you CC the dair, you can just straight up counter anyway. My main problem is getting the tech without shielding. Should I try using Z instead of L so that I grab and then an able to tech?

I will have to try that vs. dsmash, but it seems like they'd be able to simply dash attack you after. Maybe it only works on the slow tech rolls.

This is incorrect if they hit you deep enough, AND you have to be very low percentage to even attempt it.

Bair, Nair, dair, utilt, dtilt, ftilt.. idk man... USE YOUR MOVES!

And then you get zero to deathed because you pushed a button.

 

[Divinokage]

That's not what I said before though.. if the opponent committed first or you made him commit first.. then you can control him however you want.. you need to keep him threatened at all times, that's how you bait moves.. Just having the option to laser and shine makes your opponent not want to be point blank nor too far from you, that doesnt mean you have to use it, you just use it when it's appropriate. If you can master your positioning then you can predict your opponent's moves A LOT easier.

 

[Vixen]

Kage, the master of being vague.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Ruby's move placement sucks.

 

[Van.]

WOAH

kk, the homosexual, spittin fire with noted disrespect to mizukis transgenderism/general legit call out either way

this is interesting, to say the least

 

[Vixen]

Pretty sure my name is Mizuki, KK.

I do agree that it sucks, though.

I'm down for any advice you may have in regards to that.

@Van:

He is right, though. I don't deny my move placement being bad. I do get salty whenever people blatantly disrespect me by calling me ruby/he/etc though.

 

[Mahone]

If I were to slow it down, though: What would be the best way to deal with other aggressive players? My biggest weakness as a player is just not knowing how to deal with hyper aggro****. I try for wd/shine oos/angling my shield but in the heat of a match they typically turn in to randy spot dodges/bad rolls/accidental full jumps.

Vs aggressive opponents instead of shielding which they generally make you do, counter-attack him! If you can predict his move then you can basically choose any angles to attack him from.. either go above his hitbox and hit him above, or straight up beat his hitbox horizontally with your own move.. or like jump over and hit him in the back.. idk, there's endless possibilities.

kage is right

my falco is slow as ****, so when i play faster falcos, i dont have any illusions of out aggroing them

all i do the whole game is do jerky start-stop movement and then full hop aerial to beat whatever aerial they come in with

thats why i was telling you to wait more, just watch how they like to approach, then bait it and full hop aerial to stuff their attempts over and over again

i beat a bunch of faster/more technical players that way and i think this strategy works really well with falco because he is the only character that isn't completely ***** when hes above you (although he is at a disadvantage), so you can sometimes react and not throw out the full hop aerial and just waveland a platform instead, or even when u do fh aerial, you can weave a good amount and not get punished badly

whats interesting is that i feel like this strategy is good mainly for the psychological aspect of it. Random full hop aerials do not win falco dittos, strong combo starters do... but ive noticed that once you stuff like 5-6 of your opponents approaches, they will suddenly start to slow down and second guess what they are doing, and if you feel confident you can take that opportunity to speed up and start putting them on the defensive... idk, i can't really explain it, but it always works out that way, it's like a staple for puff players since the whole cast is faster than you, and i can just stuff 4 of fox's nair attempts and suddenly the fox player starts playing safer and slower and i can just wreck them off of my superior knowledge of the mu, but if they continued to overwhelm me with speed, they would probably win since when im pressured i mess up easy stuff and just throw away huge opportunities (which it seems like you/everyone does as well)

 

[Vixen]

Mahone, are you going to Apex? I'd love to play some games with you. :]

 

[Mahone]

edit: nvm these matches are awful

Mahone, are you going to Apex? I'd love to play some games with you. :]

probably, i'll be the guy who looks like my avatar in a yellow fedora

 

[Bones0]

l mao

 

[Vixen]

I'll be one of the few girls who play Melee. <_<

 

[Mahone]

word, you probably look like ur avatar as well, but probably with beats by dr.dre around ur neck which arent for music but for STYLE

 

[knightpraetor]

mahone with the good advice.

I wanna go to apex mahone take me with you!!! or at least somewhere.. I'm getting my spark plugs (200 dollars because you have to remove some stupid mount on a camry 97 to reach the rear 3)replaced soon so maybe i can even drive. I can remove the front 3 on my own but...

my car will still be a wreck but it will be better at least. (500 they said to replace the exhaust valve but since the engine burns oil it will just get drenched in oil again) does anyone know if there are any dangers to having a bad exhaust?

 

[Wenbobular]

Dude what the heck KP haha

 

[Vixen]

Actually I have Grados.

Pictured: Grado SR60i for home use, Skullcandy Hesh 2.0 for portable use.

Pictured: KRK studio monitors, vintage floor standing speakers, vintage pioneer receiver.

 

[Squirt]

Nice place you got there.

 

[Vixen]

room is tiny.

 

[Bones0]

I'd trade half the square footage of my room for those speakers in a heartbeat.