PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[trickerL]

In Falco ditto's, when I do a retreating dair on shield, my opponent usually counters with a dair out of shield. Is there a good way to punish this counter?

 

[unknown522]

Space better

 

[Dr Peepee]

In Falco ditto's, when I do a retreating dair on shield, my opponent usually counters with a dair out of shield. Is there a good way to punish this counter?

Um if you FF your Dair you can probably DD grab him as he goes into you or laser and grab/pressure him if he stays in place or moves backward.

 

[trickerL]

Oh, I meant that with that counter, he forces me into shielding (and doesn't necessarily hit me) and thus gets the offensive position. It's like this: I do a retreating dair -> he, right after the shield stun, does a forward moving dair. (I'm thinking... Since I play PAL, the shield stun may be shorter than in NTSC.)

PP, the retreating dair I do is actually one that goes a bit forward and then goes backward, spacing it (nearly) perfect so I can bait a whiffed shieldgrab. There's not a lot of time left to fastfall and it probably won't add much time for me to move...

 

[Dr Peepee]

Just make sure you hit with the strong hit first of all.

Next, if he's going to let you Dair his shield for free, why not get close enough to shine afterward? Falcos don't really shield grab anymore haha. They like shine/aerial OOS now. You should bait those things and punish them instead of shield grabbing.

If you want to keep him from Dair'ing, then Dair into him(space it if you want), then delay it so you have frame advantage on block and you can turn around and AC Bair if he tries anything OOS and if he stays in shield you can just shield stab him or pressure him a lot to get a reaction.

 

[trickerL]

Just make sure you hit with the strong hit first of all.

Next, if he's going to let you Dair his shield for free, why not get close enough to shine afterward? Falcos don't really shield grab anymore haha. They like shine/aerial OOS now. You should bait those things and punish them instead of shield grabbing.

If you want to keep him from Dair'ing, then Dair into him(space it if you want), then delay it so you have frame advantage on block and you can turn around and AC Bair if he tries anything OOS and if he stays in shield you can just shield stab him or pressure him a lot to get a reaction.

Alright, thanks!

 

[Vaccine]

i got laser reset by a fox today

i jumped into him with a laser and he shined me onto the ground and reflected my laser and reset me with it when i didnt tech... =/

it was really dumb

 

[unknown522]

Holy ****. Get *****

 

[Wake]

This game is so weird.

 

[Veetaak]

That's amazing haha

 

[Bones0]

As I was reading that, I was thinking "no you idiot, you just did a get up in place!" Then I read the second part. lol

 

[Mogwai]

man, Melee is ****ing amazing

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

i got laser reset by a fox today

i jumped into him with a laser and he shined me onto the ground and reflected my laser and reset me with it when i didnt tech... =/

it was really dumb

A lasting memento.

 

[Warhawk]

Did he get a follow up or just stare dumbfounded? lol

 

[Vaccine]

haha wow thanks for that memento.

there was no follow up =/. but it was recorded and it will probably be going in a combo video

 

[Strong Badam]

Strong Bad 10:29 pm
why are you so gay and evil kevin

drpeepee f 10:29 pm
no idea about evil but gay is just a habit by this point
bring on the dudesssss

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i'm working on that.

hard.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I cannot believe dudes do not have Falco questions. Wtf lmao

Jab on shield is really interesting. It's fast so it's hard to grab(unless vs Marth sometimes) and sets up visual cues for funky pressure.


Someone talk about that or Falco. I wanna talk about Falco.

 

[Twinkles]

dr pp, how do you beat falco??? :[

 

[Dr Peepee]

As Falcon?

Jump on platforms/FH a lot/stomp OOS at good times(combine with shield DI+timing) to keep Falco scared then mobility advantage him on the ground sometimes.

Be S2J he's gonna show the people how to do it better soon

 

[Warhawk]

and sets up visual cues for funky pressure.

What exactly do you mean by this?

 

[Twinkles]

Being s2j is very hard when you're 1000x worse than him lol. I'm just tryna work my way up slowly.

One thing I've noticed is I find it hard to escape decent Falco pressure. They hit me, I try rolling or jumping away, but after that first hit I get hit by a bunch of 2-hit combo's because I just always seem to be in a bad spot. Though I actually think the reason behind this problem is beyond just escaping pressure, I just wanna know if there are any better options other than rolling or WD OOS. Interesting places where a random spot dodge could completely throw a Falco off. Things like that.

Apart from that, I have a hard time pressuring Falco. I can get off combos, but if I **** up once, I lose all momentum and get 0-deathed easy. Because Falco doesn't fear me, I can't get him in nearly as many bad situations as he can get me imo. How do you pressure down this bird?

 

[Anand]

I wanna talk about Falco.

What do you think of shine land > JC grab when people are shielding (or standing) on platforms?

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

Is lasering into someone's shield into shine/tilt/smash/jab actually good and not just a gimmick that relies on your opponent not to expect it? I know it's been around for awhile but I rarely see it used sporadically.

For myself, I mostly use it vs marth when they're standing next to the ledge. The laser and the quick move afterward seems like it covers all of his options except if he dashes past you really early.

 

[Deleted member]

Being s2j is very hard when you're 1000x worse than him lol. I'm just tryna work my way up slowly.

One thing I've noticed is I find it hard to escape decent Falco pressure. They hit me, I try rolling or jumping away, but after that first hit I get hit by a bunch of 2-hit combo's because I just always seem to be in a bad spot. Though I actually think the reason behind this problem is beyond just escaping pressure, I just wanna know if there are any better options other than rolling or WD OOS. Interesting places where a random spot dodge could completely throw a Falco off. Things like that.

Apart from that, I have a hard time pressuring Falco. I can get off combos, but if I **** up once, I lose all momentum and get 0-deathed easy. Because Falco doesn't fear me, I can't get him in nearly as many bad situations as he can get me imo. How do you pressure down this bird?

go to tourneys and work your way up before asking #3 best player in the world for tips

 

[ShroudedOne]

I cannot believe dudes do not have Falco questions. Wtf lmao

Jab on shield is really interesting. It's fast so it's hard to grab(unless vs Marth sometimes) and sets up visual cues for funky pressure.


Someone talk about that or Falco. I wanna talk about Falco.

Whenever my shield gets jabbed, I always expect that I can do something to it right afterwards, but then I get shined. I really dislike it, cause I'm never expecting it (cause it's pretty unsafe), but it's fast enough to where it trips one up and they miss punishing it.

You could probably space jab in your shield pressure so that it couldn't be shield grabbed. Is spaced dair > spaced jab > turnaround utilt a thing, I wonder....

 

[clowsui]

kevin i'd like to see a comprehensive post about pressure. you've responded to people's inquiries about it but it might be good to collect everything into one spot. this will give you something to work on and it'll be a good post for discussion! =)

more specifically

- defining pressure/how you understand the concept of pressure
- opportunity cost and pressure (ie what am i giving up to mount more pressure)
- strengths/weaknesses of falco's pressure
- directions you've been considering with respect to addressing the problems existing in your own pressure game

using the power of cactuar to predict that max will make a post telling kevin to ignore my request and pre-emptively summarize kevin's post by saying something about the potency of a falco's pressure being based on how good he is at pressing down b, neutral b and l-cancel + ff + down cstick

 

[Cactuar]

If only the power of cactuar worked that way...

 

[clowsui]

charles "ruins everything" meighen

</3

 

[Cactuar]

I make everything better.

**

 

[Deleted member]

I cannot believe dudes do not have Falco questions. Wtf lmao

Someone talk about that or Falco. I wanna talk about Falco.

you play a solved character. you laser into grab/shine/shinegrab and combo from there. your falco is as good as your neutral, first hit, combo, and defensive games are.

Falco FAQ:

Q: What should I do from a neutral position?

A: Maneuver yourself with lasers to set up an advantage.

Q: What do I do when I have a good position?

A: Hit them with down B or grab them.

Q: What do I do when I can't beat a specific strategy?

A: Shoot more lasers better until your problem resolves itself.

/thread

using the power of cactuar to predict that max will make a post telling kevin to ignore my request and pre-emptively summarize kevin's post by saying something about the potency of a falco's pressure being based on how good he is at pressing down b, neutral b and l-cancel + ff + down cstick

 

[clowsui]

god dammit lmao

 

[Wenbobular]

Poor Blaine
Why did he have to roll over to teaching 6 Pokemon surf

*Edit*
I don't even know if that's Blaine but who cares

 

[unknown522]

Yeah. I've seen that burn heal pic a while ago

 

[Bones0]

I wish shooting more lasers was a legitimate solution to everything. I'd be the best in the world.


Does anyone know why it's harder to platform cancel shines when you are hitting an opponent as opposed to thin air? I'm guessing it's hitlag, but I'm not sure how it's changing it, and more importantly, how I can get around it. I feel like if I hold the shine for a little bit longer (to compensate for the hitlag) it helps, but it doesn't make sense. The shine still has to through frames 2 and 3 after hitlag ends, so I would think it shouldn't matter whether you let go of B after frame 1 as opposed to 4-6? It'd be really helpful if I could just initiate shield pressure (or just shine-grab) from under BF platforms immediately instead of having to WL.

Also, does shine-grab have less frame advantage if it's from a double shine as opposed to a single shine? I'm not quite sure how the shine having to land actually affects the lag time between the shine and grab.

StrongBad



Also, for your ing pleasure:

Bones can you REALLY LH Fair to Waveland with Falco? That sounds ridiculous to me.

Yes .

Holy ****. I just ran off a side plat of BF and tried to shine-turnaround bair Falcon's recovery. Instead, I accidentally shine landed onto the stage and turn around usmashed him.

 

[Strong Badam]

n o

 

[Bones0]

wut?

 

[Strong Badam]

was answering your second question

first one you already answered, your timing shouldn't change.

 

[Bones0]

Then why can't I shine land? It's definitely not me just messing up. I can get it almost every time without an opponent there, but as soon as I try to shine land and hit a CPU it becomes impossible unless it's spaced/timed perfectly.

 

[Shroomed]

What's LH stand for?