unknown522
Some guy
@ mahone: yeah, walking is fine. But dashing is also important. Walking around can be a good scare at higher percents as well, since you can tilt, or smash right away
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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
Rofffffflllll dude. You're assuming literally the same things about me that you believe I'm assuming about you, but I'm gonna ignore that for a secur ****in ******** buddy
u talk as if u know me and try to tell me how to live a better life like ur jesus christ. im 26, i probably lived longer than u have so i dont wanna hear ur stupid lame life experiences, **** urself kid. i never met u irl man. never went to gen2 so donno what ur talkin about buddy. before u talk to me again go earn ur own dime & support urself before telling me whats a good lifestyle. useless ****
First of all, I know you're micheal bluefalco/wirewolfx or whatever u wanna call yourself. You have the same posting style, you have videos showing that you're the same mediocre falco you've always been, you're both from bc, the bc people call you mike for ****'s sake and you appeared the same time your other account disappeared. So I don't know why you're lying to me about not going to Gen 2, but obviously I should take this as a sign to not believe the stuff you're posting.
Second of all, whatever I'm saying is clearly not getting to you so I'm just gonna drop it here. Go ahead with your own life, I'll make sure not to bother u again.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Do you know how many more frames dash -> crouch -> fsmash takes in comparision to walk -> fsmash?@ mahone: yeah, walking is fine. But dashing is also important. Walking around can be a good scare at higher percents as well, since you can tilt, or smash right away
Been using the former one with some success from time to time, probably because so few people expect it.
D
Deleted member
Guest
i think this argument approaches the idea of utility vs decision-making. your attacks have different properties and you can use them for advanced purposes. your style is how you choose to use them and what utility you choose to focus on. different characters have different responses to dealing with what your attacks can do, and that's also part of your style.
consider m2k's marth. if you randomly pause the match with m2k's marth in it, he is going to be within 1 WD length of the edge like 90% of the time. jason focuses on marth's ability to cut off options near the edge to force a no-win situation. however, this also forfeits a lot of the stage control and it might be one of the contributing factors as to why he's so bad against falco or jigglypuff.
there are certainly many directions to take character interaction, since there are many complex interactions and those change value depending where they happen as well. a very basic approach is to maximize the ability of your character, or to minimize the ability of your opponent's character. once you decide what your game plan is, you need to execute it to the best of your ability.
for example, let's say that we've decided that m2k's marth is soft to falco because he doesn't assume stage control. he fixes this by assuming center stage for stage control, and working his neutral game positioning to minimize the influence of lasers and to gain the best utility that he can out of his grabs. even with no relative change in skill level, his marth is going to be significantly harder for you to beat simply because his decision to play that way is stronger against your character.
while this method has always been my style of choice, I tend to lean more towards minimizing the utility of my opponent rather than maximizing my own because I play predominantly low tier. I think it is better for better characters to maximize their ability with attention to detail and refinement. I know I tend to give you the hyperbolized and facile version of these methods for the humor value, but the focus has remained the same.
unknown522
Some guy
Stab. I know you'll find this post: do you want some advice on edgeguarding Luigi?
not at all. Sorry
Exeggutorr
Smash Cadet
I've never understood why falco's like Mango and Shiz never used shortening. Of course, they don't really need it.
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
Yeah sure, sounds good.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
jump all the way out and get hit by missile!!!! 
Bones0
Smash Legend
I just dair and out-prioritize their misfires. 
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
Troll face is unnecessary when statement is true <_< I don't think misfire actually beats anything with a decent hitbox ... the only issue is timing it so you don't just get hit by it / cover both the misfire and normal missile
If they're bad they'll missile close enough that you can go far enough out there that you can spike them at the beginning (kinda like spiking Falcon when he starts his up-b before he gets to trick you with DI)
If they're bad they'll missile close enough that you can go far enough out there that you can spike them at the beginning (kinda like spiking Falcon when he starts his up-b before he gets to trick you with DI)
unknown522
Some guy
alright. I'll get on it. Still pretty much what these guys are saying here is pretty good
Exeggutorr
Smash Cadet
I wouldn't mind knowing some tricks for this also. The person I play with the most is a Luigi main.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
hey guys. first tournament in a long time. super rusty vs sheik.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjpKzpUw-zA vs okami
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cM-kARYFBs vs okami again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQHHROWrnHE vs okami for the third time.
i played okami in pools/winners/losers LOL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjpKzpUw-zA vs okami
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cM-kARYFBs vs okami again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQHHROWrnHE vs okami for the third time.
i played okami in pools/winners/losers LOL.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Does anyone here really, really know the Sheik matchup? I don't know what to do vs her in neutral, and when I'm in a bad position, I just crumble. She's just so difficult for me to figure out, and is probably going to kill me in any future tournaments I go to. :\
Any sort of pointers you can give me (specifically how to handle her in the neutral game, how to recover, and good shield pressure ideas) would be more than appreciated.
Any sort of pointers you can give me (specifically how to handle her in the neutral game, how to recover, and good shield pressure ideas) would be more than appreciated.
unknown522
Some guy
I already talked to him through AIM. I didn't really say all that I wanted to, but meh. He knows what he's doing
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
Okay I'll summarize what he said, and if I miss anything then Unknown can finish off the rest lol
- If he side B's close then you're free to go out and hit him with dair/bair early into the move.
- I was a little confused about this part, but if he Side Bs toward the ledge or just above the ledge then you grab the ledge and three things can happen.
1. He lands on the stage then you punish his up B lag like it's a sheik
2. If he hits the ledge and then falls down then refresh your invincibility and edgehog his Up B
3. You use ledge invincibility or just time your aerial and hit him out of his Side b lol
- dair is ideal because you kill him early but if you want to be safe then use bair, but be aware it'll take longer to kill him (obv.)
-if he goes high you can punish his Side B's ending lag, or let him land on stage and punish its landing lag.
Do tell whatever you had left to say lolI already talked to him through AIM. I didn't really say all that I wanted to, but meh. He knows what he's doing
tarheeljks
Smash Lord
who's your friend? also are you members of the norcal fb group? join if not!
Exeggutorr
Smash Cadet
Yea we have been members for a couple of monthes now. My partner is Yaya. He was in Zhu's pool in the last Rule 6 and I was in SFAT and the 666's pool. We also just held a pretty decently sized smashfest at our apartment in Daly City.
@stabbed alright thanks, it seems as tho its pretty simple, I just need to make sure my executing is on point, which will come with more playing.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,559
vs. sheik as falco: press more buttons
Bones0
Smash Legend
Don't try to shield pressure her. She has dumb OoS options and her shield lasts forever. This was what I felt like my number 1 problem was last time I played a Sheik.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Shinegrab is great vs sheik
Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk 2
unknown522
Some guy
I'll post a bit later. I'd much rather use a keyboard.
That's also kinda why I feel I didn't say everything that I wanted to with stab (eBuddy with the phone)
That's also kinda why I feel I didn't say everything that I wanted to with stab (eBuddy with the phone)
JPOBS
Smash Hero
pro tips vs sheik:
crouch constantly and uptilt any time she's over head
crouch constantly and uptilt any time she's over head
Bones0
Smash Legend
This isn't the Kirby boards, JPOBS.
Are you playing Falco vs Sheik wtf
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
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- 5,493
Yes. I am playing Falco vs Sheik. Well, trying to.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Bait her into using down-B.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
how would you do that? the sheiks in my local area/region never use that move
Bones0
Smash Legend
If that's too advanced for you, you can start out with beginner tactics such as putting the stage selection on random so they can't transform at the start of the match.
neutral- shoot her and keep her from walking into you disrupting your spacing or getting high and disrupting your spacing(unless you can get under her and uptilt/Bair).
bad situation- depends on which one you're in
just understand her mobility is kinda eh and she can't really approach so you get lots of offensive room to work with(this includes patient offensive if needed).
also understand her being in the air is eh for her, so get under her whenever possible(if she's on a platform she will probably move then unless the player can shield drop).
she's good at counterattacking OOS, so shine grab somewhat often and the rest of the time you can retreating Nair or whatever tickles your fancy.
bad situation- depends on which one you're in
just understand her mobility is kinda eh and she can't really approach so you get lots of offensive room to work with(this includes patient offensive if needed).
also understand her being in the air is eh for her, so get under her whenever possible(if she's on a platform she will probably move then unless the player can shield drop).
she's good at counterattacking OOS, so shine grab somewhat often and the rest of the time you can retreating Nair or whatever tickles your fancy.
dr. pp i've never seen your opinion on what falco's high tier matchups are (# wise), only your advice on how to play em.
if you could just throwem out there that would be cool.
and when i say cool i mean rad
and when i say rad i mean ultra
if you could just throwem out there that would be cool.
and when i say cool i mean rad
and when i say rad i mean ultra
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Thank you very very much, everyone. This is a good foundation to work off of. Much appreciated.
Moooose
Smash Champion
edge canceling is so good
Van.
Smash Ace
shrouded don't sell out like that man 
just don't go in the air vs. sheik, i'm certain its not that bad
the only secondary peach needs is fox for puff
just don't go in the air vs. sheik, i'm certain its not that bad
the only secondary peach needs is fox for puff
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Well...it's like a temporary thing. My Peach/Sheik game is complete trash, so while I work on it outside of tourney, I want a character that I use fairly decently and doesn't have as difficult a time vs her, in a matchup I'm more comfortable with. But I agree, Peach/Sheik isn't worth a counterpick at most levels. I'm just a wimp.
I also don't think Peach needs a secondary for Puff, but that's another thing.
I also don't think Peach needs a secondary for Puff, but that's another thing.
D
Deleted member
Guest
i don't think anyone should have a secondary specifically for bad matchups.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Umbreon, for what reason do you think players should use their secondaries (if any)? The only two reasons that I really consider are:
1. Good counterpick stage. Ex. I lose game 1 in Falco vs. Fox, cp FD, they stay Fox, so I go Marth. Seems pretty fool proof, and M2K's demonstrated it's quite a deadly tool (Fox+PS vs. Armada; Marth+FD vs. spacies).
2. Attempting to pick a matchup their bad at. This one I'm not really sure of, but I've thought about switching characters if I ever lose as Falco and feel like they will just be worse at the Marth/Fox matchup. A lot of players have very specific matchup experience, but at the same time it seems like a huge gamble to basically guess what matchups their good at (if I'm not familiar with that specific player), and I'd also be worried about underdeveloping my adaption skills. I don't want to feel like I have to change characters when I could just change my game plan and do way better. That's the main reason I haven't done it already.
1. Good counterpick stage. Ex. I lose game 1 in Falco vs. Fox, cp FD, they stay Fox, so I go Marth. Seems pretty fool proof, and M2K's demonstrated it's quite a deadly tool (Fox+PS vs. Armada; Marth+FD vs. spacies).
2. Attempting to pick a matchup their bad at. This one I'm not really sure of, but I've thought about switching characters if I ever lose as Falco and feel like they will just be worse at the Marth/Fox matchup. A lot of players have very specific matchup experience, but at the same time it seems like a huge gamble to basically guess what matchups their good at (if I'm not familiar with that specific player), and I'd also be worried about underdeveloping my adaption skills. I don't want to feel like I have to change characters when I could just change my game plan and do way better. That's the main reason I haven't done it already.
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Well, I'm not picking Falco up specifcally for Sheik. He's been a "secondary" of mine for a while. The main issue is just that I would rather play a matchup I know in a tournament setting, than play a matchup I don't know/am bad at.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Falco is the most fun character in this game, making him a great secondary. Plus he has no bad matchups, so why not use him in those one is uncomfortable with? :D
Oh and I totally can relate to disliking Peach - Sheik in NTSC, downthrow -> fair is the most bull**** inescapable (unless the sheik / falcon screw up) combo in this game on Peach ... reliable kills from grabs are stupid (:
Oh and I totally can relate to disliking Peach - Sheik in NTSC, downthrow -> fair is the most bull**** inescapable (unless the sheik / falcon screw up) combo in this game on Peach ... reliable kills from grabs are stupid (:
unknown522
Some guy
Damn. I've been loafing on that Luigi stuff.
Eventually though. Probably when I go home tmrw
Eventually though. Probably when I go home tmrw