PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Mahone]

aw man, back to the lab

maybe like, powershield dsmash the umbrella

or shield sdi into the umbrella and then grounded shine oos

 

[ShroudedOne]

I don't think she can avoid trading with dair, tbh. For her to be able to grab the ledge, her hurtbox (which extends up to the hand holding the umbrella) has to be extended over the ledge. So she can't sweetspot in the sense that she can grab the ledge and not be in danger from getting daired.

I'll look at it more when I play, cause you may very well be right, but it's never felt like she can just upB to the ledge for free.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SK4rQ5nLg3k#t=580s

 

[Deleted member]

for falco, usually it's "when in doubt, reset to neutral and shoot more lasers", which i know kevin agrees with cause i watch him do it a lot lol

 

[KirbyKaze]

Got linked to that practicing on your own guide and I'm curious as to what you'd recommend a Mewtwo player practice.

Efficient movement - You want to be able to act quickly after everything. Especially offstage, on the edge, after attacks (especially throws and d-tilt), and off of WD. Offstage is very important because Mewtwo has a lot of gimping power and can cover a lot of high recoveries with the bair super jump that conventional characters would struggle with. Being able to grab the edge with teleport opens up a lot of option coverage that he otherwise misses out on (and gives him a lot more time to wait onstage or whatever, which is good - not having to commit early is very good).

DJCs - Self-explanatory. They're mostly combo tools but they have other random uses (DJC nair OOS is kind of cool, uair is good under a platform, and I'm sure there's more stuff). You should get comfortable hitting them at varying heights. A lot of people who pick up DJC characters for funsies only can do them at ground level but you need to be comfortable doing them at multiple heights because sometimes combos and situations just go that way.

Attack Angles - Because, quite honestly, Mewtwo can't ever win exchanges with priority against good characters. He has to constantly aim where there isn't a hitbox, when their move is done, etc. So get used to doing everything with some kind of weird angle involved that allows your move to slip under theirs or whatever. This is difficult to practice on your own but you should at least try to get a feel for it.

 

[Rubyiris]

Can I get some more falco feedback? I'm getting some good vibes the last few weeks.

Vs ganon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCywmo0GyaY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAabuKJXtSo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Sent from my LG-VM670 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Divinokage]

Can't really critique when you ***** the Ganon. He's super slow =/

 

[Wenbobular]

Short hop jump over the umbrella and grab the ledge from behind Peach
That's what we're talking about right

I'm not sure it'll work every time but her hitbox is way out in front but nowhere in the back

 

[Strong Badam]

Kevin please change the title to "Falco Discussion Thread: How to be a fraud"

 

[Bones0]

Idk what Peach players you guys are playing. Up-B is ****ing invincible. If they are even in the general vicinity of sweetspotting, there's no way you should be able to grab the ledge or hit them. Dair DEFINITELY doesn't trade, unless you have the hitbox on the ledge before she even starts the up-B, then MAYBE, but I doubt it.

 

[Divinokage]

I'm pretty sure you can trade inside her startup of her up-B.

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, that's what I mean, but there's no reason for them to be up-Bing high enough that you can even reach them during her startup.

 

[Moooose]

yea if theyre up-bing correctly you definitely can't trade head on. but like bones said the hitbox is mostly in front of her, so if you can be sneaky and grab the ledge from behind thats pretty much the only way. not worth the risk imo, especially against armada.

 

[Bones0]

That was Wenbo. I think trying to SH over her up-B is a horrible idea. lol

 

[JPOBS]

Peach's Up-B is the best move in the game.

 

[Baxon]

Hey guys,
can I get some feedback for my falco ?

Vs Sheik (Adam) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHkYDOR2tng
(i know about the SDs :/ )

Vs Falco (PP) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4Hb77xZb74&feature=channel&list=UL
(exept game 1&3)


please help me

 

[Bones0]

Peach's Up-B is the best move in the game.

Nah, it only does like 2% per hit, with like 12% max or something. It's just ****ing annoying. lol

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Messing around in debug mode is fun.

Pretty sure Dsmash is the solution.

To avoid she'll not grab the ledge.

Even to sweetspot, she'll be in range of getting hit by Dsmash. Time it right. Space it right.

 

[Rubyiris]

Peaches up b is pretty godlike

Mad good oos option

Sent from my LG-VM670 using Tapatalk 2

 

[JPOBS]

people have known about downsmashing the up-b for a long time, its just difficult to space right.

granted, you dont risk much in messing it up so watever

 

[Rubyiris]

If peach does it right you can't dsmash it.

Sent from my LG-VM670 using Tapatalk 2

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

Messing around in debug mode is fun.

Pretty sure Dsmash is the solution.

To avoid she'll not grab the ledge.

Even to sweetspot, she'll be in range of getting hit by Dsmash. Time it right. Space it right.

Okay, that's really helpful, thanks. I was never sure if anything actually outranged peach's up B as far as edgeguarding was concerned.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I don't think she can avoid trading with dair, tbh. For her to be able to grab the ledge, her hurtbox (which extends up to the hand holding the umbrella) has to be extended over the ledge. So she can't sweetspot in the sense that she can grab the ledge and not be in danger from getting daired.

I'll look at it more when I play, cause you may very well be right, but it's never felt like she can just upB to the ledge for free.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SK4rQ5nLg3k#t=580s

He didn't space it right(sweetspot correctly) like a noob LOL

I could have Dsmashed there as well.

for falco, usually it's "when in doubt, reset to neutral and shoot more lasers", which i know kevin agrees with cause i watch him do it a lot lol

That is a good motto right there.

That, and FH randomly.

Efficient movement - You want to be able to act quickly after everything. Especially offstage, on the edge, after attacks (especially throws and d-tilt), and off of WD. Offstage is very important because Mewtwo has a lot of gimping power and can cover a lot of high recoveries with the bair super jump that conventional characters would struggle with. Being able to grab the edge with teleport opens up a lot of option coverage that he otherwise misses out on (and gives him a lot more time to wait onstage or whatever, which is good - not having to commit early is very good).

DJCs - Self-explanatory. They're mostly combo tools but they have other random uses (DJC nair OOS is kind of cool, uair is good under a platform, and I'm sure there's more stuff). You should get comfortable hitting them at varying heights. A lot of people who pick up DJC characters for funsies only can do them at ground level but you need to be comfortable doing them at multiple heights because sometimes combos and situations just go that way.

Attack Angles - Because, quite honestly, Mewtwo can't ever win exchanges with priority against good characters. He has to constantly aim where there isn't a hitbox, when their move is done, etc. So get used to doing everything with some kind of weird angle involved that allows your move to slip under theirs or whatever. This is difficult to practice on your own but you should at least try to get a feel for it.

I will add this to M2 stuff in a sec. thanks dude. =)

Short hop jump over the umbrella and grab the ledge from behind Peach
That's what we're talking about right

I'm not sure it'll work every time but her hitbox is way out in front but nowhere in the back

Man that is risky....can I SH over the sweetspot and grab? bluh need to test that because it'd be amazing if I could.

Kevin please change the title to "Falco Discussion Thread: How to be a fraud"

no stop hating

Messing around in debug mode is fun.

Pretty sure Dsmash is the solution.

To avoid she'll not grab the ledge.

Even to sweetspot, she'll be in range of getting hit by Dsmash. Time it right. Space it right.

KNEW ITTTT

I just mess up the spacing on Dsmash sometimes =(

If peach does it right you can't dsmash it.

Sent from my LG-VM670 using Tapatalk 2

Usually works for me when I do it right

 

[Rubyiris]

Pp is a cheater

 

[ShroudedOne]

Her upB is not nearly that good, guys. Sorry to break it to you (though it is pretty good).

See the way her arm extends over the ledge when she's in her umbrella? She CAN'T go any lower, or she'll miss the ledge. Ok, dair might not hit (still skeptical, but whatever), but downsmash absolutely does (trading it here is absolutely in your favor, so it's not like it requires any inhuman spacing).

Again, she can't sweetspot without exposing a good part of herself, which is punishable by downsmash at least (she can probably tech this, though?)

 

[Dr Peepee]

Dsmash works, but it can be teched.

 

[Wenbobular]

You can't really do stuff coming from above because her umbrella is like the size of Marth's sword, except her arm isn't attached to it haha

I swear jumping around the umbrella will edgehog her though ... if you can get behind her umbrella before it hits you it's a free edgehog

Also a couple sets of my Falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHAD39aAIbA&feature=g-all-u - vs Falcon (****ied out and went Falcon in game 3 haha)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4fui1-eJ-U&feature=g-all-u - vs Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeYZ6NuuGqU&feature=plcp - vs Marth

I feel like there are some Falco things I'm not abusing / using at all, of you think something like that is the case please point it out

I think I could be using uptilt way more to stuff things from the sky but I don't know if there's more obvious things I'm missing

*edit*
looked at hitbox thread, it's not actually the size of Marth's sword
Must be because it's fast and hits 20 million times <_<

Maybe jump offstage backward with Dair and aim for her back?

 

[leffen]

Dsmash needs perfect timing, and peach can easily just mixup the timing to avoid it.
It can also be walljump tech'd ->punished for free.

to fight it you need to be extremely precise, shield DI (offstage)->Shine is the best option but its extremely hard.
your other option is to jump offstage but thats super risky if you're slightly off

God damn peach relies so much on the opponent messing up, I hate it lol

 

[Dr Peepee]

Whoa Peach can PUNISH Dsmash? How?

 

[Wenbobular]

Tech walljump Bair?
Sounds so ******** looking imagining Peach doing a walljump

If they tech they can hit you with the umbrella though
So you probably have to let them on at that point

 

[Bones0]

Messing around in debug mode is fun.

Pretty sure Dsmash is the solution.

To avoid she'll not grab the ledge.

Even to sweetspot, she'll be in range of getting hit by Dsmash. Time it right. Space it right.

Except that up-B isn't sweetspotted at all. Maybe I'm not familiar enough with her ledge grab length, but she certainly doesn't have to be pushed inside the wall like that, and I don't think she even has to go that high.

Either way, it looks like facing center stage for dsmash edge guards is actually much safer, but I can't tell because of the collision diamonds. Let me check the hitbox thread.

[COLLAPSE=Down Smash]

[/COLLAPSE]
Hmmm, on his back his tail seems to stick out, but his hand on the ground actually seems to be more of an issue, at least for upwards pointed moves like Peach's or Marth's up-B. I may mess around today and see if I can get edgeguards any easier with one or the other.

 

[leffen]

Tech->Up B
Walljump tech->Bair
Walljump tech->Float ->Uair/nair/fair
Walljump tech->Airdodge->Dsmash (90% sure)

so yeah, not worth it

 

[Dr Peepee]

I don't think any of those can hit spaced Dsmash.....have you actually seen this happen?

 

[ShroudedOne]

Why does she have her float if she's getting hit out of upB?

And airdodge > downsmash...Falco shouldn't be in downsmash lag before she gets to the ground and downsmashes, right?

If nothing else, I guess you could just let her back on and pressure her at the ledge, I guess...

 

[crush]

walljump tech peach bomber

also if walljump tech bair can hit then so can walljump tech nair probably if ur quick

 

[leffen]

Yep. Falcos feet stick out for quite a while after the hitbox comes out, thats why the fast options hit him.

I'm decently confident that the others work. You'll be hitting Peach frame 6, and Dsmash lasts for 46 (perfect iasa) frames. Airdodge land lag =10 frames, Dsmash =5 frames which gives you 25 frames for gaining height and to land from the airdodge, which should be possible.

Peach has her float after using up B wayyyy more often than you'd imagine lol.


also walljump tech peach bomber would actually work LMAO

 

[Dr Peepee]

Leffen: can I SH over sweetspot up-B to grab the edge without getting hit?

 

[leffen]

I dont know, maybe with falco?

She could just angle it/space it more backwards though >_> (this also makes spaced Dsmash whiff)


Your best bet is often to just let her grab the ledge, and then **** her next option. If you think shes gonna go low with a Up B regrab/DJ->smth, steal the ledge and punish. If shes doing smth else, just punish that.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Then I could WD to the edge faster since she can't grab it right away since she's spaced farther away, right?

Once you answer that I'll start seeing what all I can do with what you've told me.

Thanks a ton for answering my questions/concerns btw. =)

 

[leffen]

Depends on how close she does it, but I don't think you can grab it before (think of it likes marths up b with bigger hitbox that lasts >_>). If she thinks you're gonna jump over it though, you could probably dsmash without her being able to tech...

I don't know for sure though, I'm gonna test this out myself

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

leffen can u change the color of ur text. It's impossible to read without highlighting lol