hippiedude92
Smash Hero
Yep make senses thanks for the advice ! =].
Also yay for quick response xD.
Also yay for quick response xD.
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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
Bones0
Smash Legend
Sweet, I wasn't sure if that worked vs. DI away. Should I fair as soon as I leave the ground, or should I late fair so I only hit with the first kick?Fair fsmash counters the di against Nair.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
First kick only. Try to hit as deep as possible.
Bones0
Smash Legend
That's what she said.
Veetaak
Smash Lord
Fisting?
Try out Footing instead!
Try out Footing instead!
crush
Smash Master
Im really good at fingering
the controller for certain footing techniques with falco.
the controller for certain footing techniques with falco.
knock it off
back on track to hitting people with fairs please.
back on track to hitting people with fairs please.
Warhawk
Smash Lord
If you have the space to pull it out early can't weak nair essentially take the place of your fair for combo purposes? I think weak nair actually hits lighter too and has less landing lag, the only issue is you have to have space between you and your opponent to use it early so that you don't use the strong nair hitbox... Or maybe I'm just really against the fair lol.
Well Fair is a bit stronger which can be better at times and it can come out faster so it can be harder to DI against since you'd have to predict it(though the spacing is kinda obvious sometimes). Weak Nair is much better at higher percents regardless of DI for a while imo. Still playin around with both haha.
Little England
Smash Master
Fair also hits higher than nair, which automatically makes it more useful in specific (combo) situations.
giovannig22311
Smash Journeyman
okay thanks oh yea n also wen there low percent and i dair them and shine they seem to di away from me? do i chase them with a waveshine? lik wavedash to shine? ?beacuse wen i do that they seem to get away but how do i chase them down falco seems to slow wen i run to chase them?
D
Deleted member
Guest
you guys probably have the right idea @ falco because i basically never use fair. i only use safe moves, but it leads to a lot of stale play and some lack of innovation. i usually ty to use better movement/lasers/grabs to cover any actual holes i have, and i try to play a trapper style over a combo style to minimize DI problems.
honestly though i just don't like that move.
honestly though i just don't like that move.
Another good point.Fair also hits higher than nair, which automatically makes it more useful in specific (combo) situations.
Well if they're a fast faller(spacies, falcon mostly) you can waveshine(shine then wavedash after you hit them) to combo, but otherwise you'll have to double jump out of your shine to Dair and continue comboing.okay thanks oh yea n also wen there low percent and i dair them and shine they seem to di away from me? do i chase them with a waveshine? lik wavedash to shine? ?beacuse wen i do that they seem to get away but how do i chase them down falco seems to slow wen i run to chase them?
"Safe?" I think Fair is perfectly "safe" in combo situations and semi-combo situations lol. As an approach move it's kinda meh though but I've found it useful there once in a while too lol.
Combos are always better to use(or basically combos) than trapping someone because they are more guaranteed. Unless you mean basically combos as trapping someone but I'd rather not emphasize that with Falco because he doesn't necessarily have to(much unlike Marth or Fox even for example).
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
laser Uthrow fair is still 50+% off three moves.
**** should do that more.
**** should do that more.
HomeStylePie
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2011
- Messages
- 40
Has anyone seen a video of every hit of the fair connecting?
Bones0
Smash Legend
I do it like every match. lol Uthrow -> fair Marth if you want to try it.
Lightsyde
Smash Champion
Lolz @ Mow being outdated as Hell.
Diagonal hitbox on the Fair has a slew of uses, including hitting/shieldpoking feet through platform and its goofy reverse hitbox
Diagonal hitbox on the Fair has a slew of uses, including hitting/shieldpoking feet through platform and its goofy reverse hitbox
D
Deleted member
Guest
No joke, I feel pretty outdated sometimes. But heavy movement + trapping is something I like to do in general. A trapped opponent is a dead one, and falco isn't bad at this line of play.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Fair is slightly longer than Nair, too. It's got some really nice niche uses.
D
Deleted member
Guest
most moves in the game have niche uses. i'm more concerned with "is this niche use a superior alternative to using lasers better?" sometimes it's yes but most of the time it isn't. that said, i do really value effective innovation/progression, but i'm also very honest and critical about it because i know how much that type of stuff tends to be over hyped.Fair is slightly longer than Nair, too. It's got some really nice niche uses.
the way i evaluate things is very restrictive and honest and i get a lot of flak for it. like I tell a lot of players that they suck but i know they're better than I am. they say "well we'd **** you." no ****. is being better than umbreonmow really an accomplishment in smash? obviously not lol. but it's true, greatness isn't typical. there's maybe 30 good players that don't suck at smash right now, and i'm thankful that i've been able to work with m2, pp, and...druggedfox
most smashers are content to grind out so wavedashes and l cancels and never really sit down and grind out the refined details of a technical game. they just sit in this thread reading about how to edge guard or watching pp's videos. that's fine, and you might get a little better doing that but you'll never be a good player. I know when I text kevin some gem to work with, he'll at least play with it in game for ten minutes to figure it out. me and m2k grinded out the details of fox's CG for 2 days in his room in jersey. despite some people posting in here for months trying to learn falco from the master, not one player in this thread moves the way kevin does in a match. he could play any color/tag and you'd still know who was playing in the first 10 seconds of the match. why is that?
idk i guess if i've learned anything about the smash community it's that they don't like honesty as a whole. all of the closest friends i have and the people i exchange ideas with the most are the ones that openly accept criticism.
perhaps calling it "honesty" is a loaded statement.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
maybe people would listen if you were good too 
anyway
i can see wisdom in your posts but sometimes your criticisms come off as too judgmental rather than constructive
as for me... nobody on this forum can help me except my ic bros fly, wobbles, smasher89, and maybe some others sometimes.
anyway
i can see wisdom in your posts but sometimes your criticisms come off as too judgmental rather than constructive
as for me... nobody on this forum can help me except my ic bros fly, wobbles, smasher89, and maybe some others sometimes.
trahhSTEEZY
Smash Champion
ooooo
shots
bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang
i can tell umbreon generally enjoys being judgemental
shots
bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang
i can tell umbreon generally enjoys being judgemental
Niko45
Smash Master
Question after watching stric vs doh.
If peach powershields the nair approach does dsmash really come out before shine? Seems like that should not work to me but it was working a lot. Was stric just messing something up?
If peach powershields the nair approach does dsmash really come out before shine? Seems like that should not work to me but it was working a lot. Was stric just messing something up?
I played with DoH a lot before Apex and I will just say you have to do your Nairs pretty darn low to beat the Dsmash lol. Definitely possible though but you have to essentially call the powershield(or shield in general if you want to go deep as a mixup I guess).
Stric was doing his Nairs like Peach was just going to shield basically.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
Scumbag UmbreonMow:
> Scoffs at discussion concerning Fair and its possible utilities, telling people they are wasting time trying to innovate its uses
> Brags about working with PP and M2K to innovate/test other strategies
> Scoffs at discussion concerning Fair and its possible utilities, telling people they are wasting time trying to innovate its uses
> Brags about working with PP and M2K to innovate/test other strategies
Prince_Abu
Smash Lord
most moves in the game have niche uses. i'm more concerned with "is this niche use a superior alternative to using lasers better?" sometimes it's yes but most of the time it isn't. that said, i do really value effective innovation/progression, but i'm also very honest and critical about it because i know how much that type of stuff tends to be over hyped.
the way i evaluate things is very restrictive and honest and i get a lot of flak for it. like I tell a lot of players that they suck but i know they're better than I am. they say "well we'd **** you." no ****. is being better than umbreonmow really an accomplishment in smash? obviously not lol. but it's true, greatness isn't typical. there's maybe 30 good players that don't suck at smash right now, and i'm thankful that i've been able to work with m2, pp, and...druggedfox
most smashers are content to grind out so wavedashes and l cancels and never really sit down and grind out the refined details of a technical game. they just sit in this thread reading about how to edge guard or watching pp's videos. that's fine, and you might get a little better doing that but you'll never be a good player. I know when I text kevin some gem to work with, he'll at least play with it in game for ten minutes to figure it out. me and m2k grinded out the details of fox's CG for 2 days in his room in jersey. despite some people posting in here for months trying to learn falco from the master, not one player in this thread moves the way kevin does in a match. he could play any color/tag and you'd still know who was playing in the first 10 seconds of the match. why is that?
idk i guess if i've learned anything about the smash community it's that they don't like honesty as a whole. all of the closest friends i have and the people i exchange ideas with the most are the ones that openly accept criticism.
perhaps calling it "honesty" is a loaded statement.
y do u act like ur some sort of smash coach or something?
like even tho ur not good urself ur somehow qualified as a coach/critic
doesnt make sense
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I like bananas.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Why do you keep saying the same ******** **** over and over derailing the thread with nonsense?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Hi Kage! What's up?
D
Deleted member
Guest
now that i know you don't actually read my posts, i can feel more justified for not reading yours.
yes, the powershield dair/nair actually works, no matter how clean/low your aerials are. it's a pretty sick solution to the character in some ways, and yet disappointing when you realize that something that difficult only nullifies a small range of what the character can do. playing doh in random test matches, i was mostly able to get around it after 20 minutes, barring a few awesome destruction stocks where i still went for the dair anyway and died for it horribly lol
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I find a lot of PS shenaniganry is telegraphed by movement or similar positional behaviours. So if you can pick up on that it's not too hard to just... tickle them.
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
The code word is "turnips"
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Nothing much just practicing lots of Falco lately..
giovannig22311
Smash Journeyman
ay pp wat tips do u hav for a peach matchup?? her down smash and float are so stupid,. do i jus nair and lasers ,cuse every time she knocks me off she floats off stage and jus nairs .
The powershield downsmash vs nair/dair doesn't work if you hit their shield really late. Both moves have 7 frames of stun on shield (and powershielding doesn't change this for physical attacks), dair lcancels in 9 frames and nair in 7. So if you hit their shield on frame and land on frame 1, then they will be in stun until frame 7, and you will able to shine either on the next frame or two frames later. Downsmash takes 5 frames to start and that's not fast enough; Your shine will beat it.
Powershield->jab will beat even the latest dair->shine with most characters (anyone with a 2 or maybe 3 frame jab), but that still loses to nair->shine, although just barely.
It's pretty impractical to approach with such a low aerial->shine though; You lose all the hitbox magic that makes falco's feet so good in the first place. You can still do aerials in such a way that you start earlier while still hitting really low by spacing so that your hitbox barely overlaps them, and only at the end. You usually (always? idk haven't tested it) won't be able to hit them/shield with a shine then, and it's also dangerous for spacing reasons, but it's a useful tactic sometimes anyway.
I'm not really sure about how practical this powershielding stuff is vs real (ie good) falcos. It's pretty easy to time on aerial approaches that you know are coming (4 frame window; I can do it like 85% or more), but it's a lot harder to do in reaction to an approach. I suspect that it's well within the limits of human ability to be able to do it by reaction from a lot of spacings though; I can't do it personally but I haven't really practiced it either. I'm only good at frame data and theory smash so I'll leave the practical implications of all this as an exercise to the reader.
Powershield->jab will beat even the latest dair->shine with most characters (anyone with a 2 or maybe 3 frame jab), but that still loses to nair->shine, although just barely.
It's pretty impractical to approach with such a low aerial->shine though; You lose all the hitbox magic that makes falco's feet so good in the first place. You can still do aerials in such a way that you start earlier while still hitting really low by spacing so that your hitbox barely overlaps them, and only at the end. You usually (always? idk haven't tested it) won't be able to hit them/shield with a shine then, and it's also dangerous for spacing reasons, but it's a useful tactic sometimes anyway.
I'm not really sure about how practical this powershielding stuff is vs real (ie good) falcos. It's pretty easy to time on aerial approaches that you know are coming (4 frame window; I can do it like 85% or more), but it's a lot harder to do in reaction to an approach. I suspect that it's well within the limits of human ability to be able to do it by reaction from a lot of spacings though; I can't do it personally but I haven't really practiced it either. I'm only good at frame data and theory smash so I'll leave the practical implications of all this as an exercise to the reader.
Warhawk
Smash Lord
What's with you and Falco lately? It seems everytime I see you post you've just recently been practicing with Falco. What happened to Ganon lol?
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Because I have been for a while now. My Ganon gets owned too often by Bam, there's just nothing I can do and then I tried to Falco ditto him repeatedly and right now it's usually a lot closer unless he was purposely playing crappier.. but I kinda doubt it when he owns my Ganon that much. I decided I'm going to fight fire with fire.
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
HAHAHAHAH
years and years of you posting the same 'anything is possible with a warrior's spirit' bull**** culminates inthis? BEAUTIFUL
Divinokage
Smash Legend
You can't really understand when you haven't had a strong partner through your life that owns you, years after years. So I'm going to own him by following my darkness and be true to my name. You can't escape your own shadow.
To refute your statement, I don't see how being utterly confident in yourself is bad. You need it if you want to defeat strong opponents or even hope to be at least decent. I never stopped believing in myself. If you believe it's BS then you'll never succeed, sorry.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
LMAOoooooo on blast.