PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[trahhSTEEZY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c893mlqqsvw

first set hbox vs pp

 

[Bones0]

You can ledge hop a dair onto Yoshi's side platforms.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

tyty matt :D

question though, about 'you get hit by a lot of aerials from the ledge', do you mean me holding the ledge, or the falcon?

When Falcon is holding the ledge, and then comes up with nair/uair/knee.

 

[ruhtraeel]

PP why so many full hop JC shines vs Puff? Is that something Falcos should do?

 

[Blistering Speed]

PeePee, what do I do against a Falco who deceptively picks red?

 

[Pi]

lolololololol

PeePee, what do I do against a Falco who deceptively picks red?

lolololololol

 

[Bones0]

lo l

 

[Veetaak]

Yesterday I played some smash with a friend (I had not played with a human for about 2months before that) and I had problems with approaching him and locking him down in his shield. These problems occured mainly when I played his fox and marth.

It feels like a gamble to me because I don't know if he will jump OoS when I have him locked down and am going to approach or if he will stay in the shield and so I don't know whether to bait his jump OoS, approach with a delayed aerial for good shield pressure or do an early aerial if he tries to attack me OoS or WD OoS.

Another thing I had problems with was punishing marth's fairs OoS after I had DDed/WD back to bait one out. I often ended up late to the punishment and so he would punish me for that which was annoying.

His fox tend to jump OoS alot as an escape and I wonder what the best thing to do is when fox has full jumped above you. He did that alot as I was about to aerial him, this resulted in him punishing me in my lag.

I screwed up my laser-game alot that session which hindered my approaching but even when I didn't, it still felt like I was at a casino.

Also, what distance should I laser and dashdance at and how do I know when I should bait an aerial and when I should keep lasering them.

(Sorry if this is super obvious or super "it comes with experience")

Summary: How do I know when to approach? how do I know when to use an early aerial and when to use a delayed aerial? And how do I know when to bait out an attack and how to punish it correctly ?(marths fair for example)

Sorry if this has been covered before

 

[Dr Peepee]

@Unknown: I like all of your responses and only have to ask about Sheik Isai Dropping through the platform to aerial'ing as a mixup to this runoff thing, which would screw with your spacing. If you KNOW Sheik will run off then life is easier, but full platform abuse from her seems harder to handle(in my head). I suppose more of this could be handled on reaction or Falco could work to manipulate Sheik more via positioning and uptilt/Bair threatens/option covers than I am giving him credit for though....

PP why so many full hop JC shines vs Puff? Is that something Falcos should do?

welll........

apart from some things not worth mentioning, hitting with a shine on floaties means you have to follow up with FH Dairs. I suppose it could be said I was anticipating hits/trying to stay safe.

PeePee, what do I do against a Falco who deceptively picks red?

lol

yeah I deserve that....

you should just play them like they're any normal-colored Falco and give no Fs though

Yesterday I played some smash with a friend (I had not played with a human for about 2months before that) and I had problems with approaching him and locking him down in his shield. These problems occured mainly when I played his fox and marth.

It feels like a gamble to me because I don't know if he will jump OoS when I have him locked down and am going to approach or if he will stay in the shield and so I don't know whether to bait his jump OoS, approach with a delayed aerial for good shield pressure or do an early aerial if he tries to attack me OoS or WD OoS.

Another thing I had problems with was punishing marth's fairs OoS after I had DDed/WD back to bait one out. I often ended up late to the punishment and so he would punish me for that which was annoying.

His fox tend to jump OoS alot as an escape and I wonder what the best thing to do is when fox has full jumped above you. He did that alot as I was about to aerial him, this resulted in him punishing me in my lag.

I screwed up my laser-game alot that session which hindered my approaching but even when I didn't, it still felt like I was at a casino.

Also, what distance should I laser and dashdance at and how do I know when I should bait an aerial and when I should keep lasering them.

(Sorry if this is super obvious or super "it comes with experience")

Summary: How do I know when to approach? how do I know when to use an early aerial and when to use a delayed aerial? And how do I know when to bait out an attack and how to punish it correctly ?(marths fair for example)

Sorry if this has been covered before

Sounds like your approaches got beaten out a lot or you didn't know how to handle some options. First off, I want to tell you that you need to work on controlling the opponent via lasers and positioning and threats of your big moves(Dair, Bair, etc) so that your opponent does not feel comfortable executing such options when you space yourself against them in a certain way. For example, Fox would not want to FH OOS as an escape if you FH above him in the middle of pressure or as an approach/pseudo-approach. Or, if you get close enough then he may not want to jump because you could bait out a defensive aerial/jump from him and punish.

Change up your spacing, but your ideal one should be one in which your opponent cannot easily react to your approaches but you have the control to react to theirs or keep them from executing their major options through conditioning.

 

[Veetaak]

Thx PP

Never ever thought of FHing myself to cover fox's FH OoS, I guess I have to mix it up more and get creative

 

[unknown522]

@Unknown: I like all of your responses and only have to ask about Sheik Isai Dropping through the platform to aerial'ing as a mixup to this runoff thing, which would screw with your spacing. If you KNOW Sheik will run off then life is easier, but full platform abuse from her seems harder to handle(in my head). I suppose more of this could be handled on reaction or Falco could work to manipulate Sheik more via positioning and uptilt/Bair threatens/option covers than I am giving him credit for though....

That is a good question, but you kinda answered it with the last sentence. But again, since we're all human, it's not foolproof and sometimes we may even just react too slow to the situation, so they may still get the drop on you.

But yeah, that's competitive games for you

 

[Dr Peepee]

I just wanted to see how you interpreted the situation fully, but alright that's cool.

Thanks for takin the time to respond to all of that. I'm hitting up your post about planking tomorrow most likely. =)

 

[unknown522]

sounds good man.

 

[The Jizzard]

hey looking for some help/tips/advice on anything im doing wrong. i feel like CF should be an easy match up but i can never seem to beat them in tournament.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEFiY-8gbU8&feature=channel_video_title

fixed the url should work now

 

[Wenbobular]

Fix your link bro

 

[Bones0]

hey looking for some help/tips/advice on anything im doing wrong. i feel like CF should be an easy match up but i can never seem to beat them in tournament.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEFiY-8gbU8&feature=channel_video_title

fixed the url should work now

- You never shine after aerials.
- You always roll from the ledge.
- Don't spam fsmash; once Fox is in kill % just look for those easy bairs to get him off stage and edge guard.

 

[silentSWAG]

^^ prety harsh. i am sad

 

[PEEF!]

Mog, this is for you!

 

[Mogwai]

another one I've seen, and another one I'm happy to see again <3.

 

[bossa nova ♪]

falco's shine invincibility is **** and underused as an intentional strategy (well, maybe not underused... i mean it's pretty ****in risky most of the time.)


today i was playing a sheik player, and i used shine once when he was trying to f-air me, and another time when i was on a lower platform of yoshi's and he tried to tipper u-smash me from beneath ftko. both times these attacks just went through me, and i got away safely.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I didn't think that was reliably since it was only one frame of defense which would be hard to time.

Were there many times you tried to defend yourself with shine and it was not effective?

 

[PEEF!]

Dr. Peepee will be on Melee State of the Game tonight dropping huge Falco knowledge. Hope you all show up. It is at 7PM Eastern (about 2 hrs from the time of this post) at this link>> www.twitch.tv/peefsmash

 

[bossa nova ♪]

no. in fact, i was 2 for 2, and both times it was entirely instinct (luck). i had been counter-happy with marth a couple matches earlier in our session, so that might be why pressing down-b defensively was at all accessible during my matches with falco.


also, are the attack and the invincibility of the shine both on the same frame? just curious.

 

[Pi]

^yes so...sheik should have gotten hit

 

[bossa nova ♪]

well, the tip of the u-smash is obviously disjointed... there was no way i was gonna hit the sheik, and i wasn't trying to. it was a defensive reaction that just..... worked.



my shine didn't hit her when she f-air'd either, which is especially disjointed on the last frame out in front of her head and above her hand, and i believe that's where my shine hitbox was. i was hoping i would at least go unscathed (i.e. one of my reasons for shining was to be invincible), but i would have liked her to get hit.

this awareness of shine's invincibility while i'm playing is new, that's why i brought it up here... every time i have avoided being hit because of shine invincibility before today was entirely accidental in the sense that the possibility wasn't even being considered when i decided to down-b. i'm not trying to argue that it's a good idea to be going around trying to shine the opponent's hitboxes... i'm just saying that i believe this aspect of shine is a good thing to be aware of if its defensive abilities are at all going to be pushed to their limits....i may just be silly and unexperienced, but i question whether this aspect of shine is the kind of thing that should just be left to pure luck, even if it is just one frame of invincibility.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

http://www.twitch.tv/peefsmash

melee state of the game starting in 10 min!

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Does anyone else think the name of that show should be changed? I mean, state of the game is the name of a specific show hosted on MLG by JP with Artosis, Day9, iNcontroL, and Liquid`Tyler.

 

[PEEF!]

Its the Melee version.

PP Currently explasining the Mango Falco color theory =DD

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

But like, its a total rip off.

 

[Pachinkosam]

DR.peepee rocks :DD

 

[LLDL]

When you're pressuring your opponent, what's your personal deciding factor on shine grab versus multishining.

 

[bossa nova ♪]

^is that a question just to PP?


PP can't multishine

 

[bossa nova ♪]

yet

 

[PEEF!]

Mango is about to be on! LOL

 

[JPOBS]

When you're pressuring your opponent, what's your personal deciding factor on shine grab versus multishining.

I choose depending on:
Double shine if they have a fast OOS option that they have shown capable of using (like if fox/falco shine oos or sheik nair oos)

Shine grab if they have shown they are comfortable in their shield and have very shield prone gameplay.

 

[Dr Peepee]

DR.peepee rocks :DD

thanks! <3

you rock =)

When you're pressuring your opponent, what's your personal deciding factor on shine grab versus multishining.

I shine grab before I double shine because people like holding shield more initially to feel out what I'm doing(usually).

In general I only would double shine vs like Sheik Peach or the spacies anyway, and double shine keeps me safer at higher percents that the opponent would want to pop off their OOS options on. Shine grab feels more like a staple technique since it's easier to do and double shine feels more like the mixup that's more in-depth to me(even if it has higher reward on hit it's more of a counter to their option[OOS] than something that forces them to counter[shine grab forcing them to quit shielding]).

I don't know I could probably phrase this better but I haven't worked it out perfectly yet XD

^is that a question just to PP?


PP can't multishine

Yes I can.....

Double shine anyway and that's all I need. It has been far too long since we've been in the same building. XD

 

[Druggedfox]

Yeah guys, PP learned tech skill and stuff.

Don't hate.

 

[Strong Badam]

Dr PP sucks :D

 

[bossa nova ♪]

double shine is overrated


break a shield with multishines and we'll talk

 

[Dr Peepee]

I don't think that's likely to do in a given tournament match, but I'd love to be proven wrong.