PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Mew2King]

ive been ending combos in down smash since like 2005/6 cuz it hits them below the stage

spacies down smash ***** lol (at least against fast fallers) cuz of it putting them below the stage

at higher %s it puts them even further below, so i recommend not jumping off stage until mid %. at %s they are able to illusion, just edge hog and react (you can still cover all options this way easily). but past mid % they have to up B and they are as good as dead if you jump off and shine-turn-around Bair or double jump Dair intercept all of their up B angle options.

 

[silentSWAG]

Not Worried About Losing: This problem, I've begun to notice, is the biggest killer of mentalities that any fighting game player could have. It seems the most universal anyway. I could write a lot about this concept alone(considered doing a big post on it....maybe I will later) because balancing between concern over losing with being too disinterested to apply yourself(the other side of the spectrum I am aggravatingly on more now) is a very difficult one to maintain. I worked on it some today and it takes some tweaking but I'm pretty good at handling losing now and don't feel much pressure if I'm about to lose. Making sure I'm still motivated enough to win is the off and on thing I have to wrestle with. I think I just need to force myself to remember to play hard often, especially when I'm in danger of losing a match. That's all I have at the moment, but I can't imagine how keeping the need to play hard in mind often shouldn't at least motivate me somewhat.

ive been having trouble with this, just as i would think so dose everyone else

 

[Bones0]

I don't think I've ever gone into a tournament match worried I would lose (either because I pumped myself up with delusional confidence or because I accepted I would lose and just wanted to do my best). I'm so tilted in the direction of not being able to care it gets really frustrating. I legitimately play 10x better when I'm down a game, or even a few stocks. I constantly get comebacks because the visual cue of me with 1 stock left makes my brain go "woah there, you just wasted 3 stocks in 2 minutes; time to start trying." Like PP said, it's just hard to initiate and maintain that borderline euphoric feeling when you are truly focused and in the zone.

TURBOOOOOO!!!

 

[Dr Peepee]

okay m2k I have saved it =)

 

[silentSWAG]

god this thread is great!!

 

[Divinokage]

I don't think I've ever gone into a tournament match worried I would lose (either because I pumped myself up with delusional confidence or because I accepted I would lose and just wanted to do my best). I'm so tilted in the direction of not being able to care it gets really frustrating. I legitimately play 10x better when I'm down a game, or even a few stocks. I constantly get comebacks because the visual cue of me with 1 stock left makes my brain go "woah there, you just wasted 3 stocks in 2 minutes; time to start trying." Like PP said, it's just hard to initiate and maintain that borderline euphoric feeling when you are truly focused and in the zone.

TURBOOOOOO!!!

But it's not impossible, you can activate that power before a match even begins, it's possible but you can't have a single doubt before hand.

 

[SuperMatt]

my thoughts are that you should always be worried about losing when you go into a match, but you should also have confidence in your ability to win against anyone

this ensures that you give 100% every match

 

[Veetaak]

You can't win with cold hands though.

That's why Summer>Winter

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sinji, the problem with your theory is that PP explicitly told me that he felt he didn't know the Sheik MU at all at ROM3 despite his numerous sets with the other Sheik players because I have a funny style. I agreed with him. He told me he focused more on figuring me out, rather than the MU, to win the second set.

I think what helped PP more for Amsah was focusing more attentively on the MU (if he did this; idk if he did) and talking to Unknown. Unknown ***** Sheiks LOL.

 

[Sinji]

I see. More of a players stand point then a MU.

Gotta talk to Ryan about the sheik matchup on facebook. lol

 

[Dr Peepee]

Sinji, the problem with your theory is that PP explicitly told me that he felt he didn't know the Sheik MU at all at ROM3 despite his numerous sets with the other Sheik players because I have a funny style. I agreed with him. He told me he focused more on figuring me out, rather than the MU, to win the second set.

I think what helped PP more for Amsah was focusing more attentively on the MU (if he did this; idk if he did) and talking to Unknown. Unknown ***** Sheiks LOL.

I'm fairly certain you were also better than any other sheik(vs Falco at the least) I had played up until that point haha. I had to learn more matchup things as well.

I'm not sure if I talked to Unknown between RoM3 and P5(I just don't remember lol but maybe I did....thinking back I feel like I talked to at least one person about it....could've been unknown I suppose), but I'm pretty sure those videos taught me where a lot of holes were that I didn't know existed previously. My understanding of a lot of things comes from how people respond to what I do vs what they do in general, which is pretty bad in terms of being prepared for someone I haven't played before/in a long time. Pretty good if I keep playing them over and over(like what happened with Hbox eventually for example).

Long story short, you helped me learn how to fight Sheik the character better by exposing me to high level play with her that I hadn't known existed up until that point.

 

[Doser]

Dr. PP is calling out M2k's sheik!

 

[Dr Peepee]

I hadn't played his Sheik in singles by that time XD

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Hello, I'm time traveler from the future. My message is this:

KirbyKaze will beat M2K in Sheik dittos in 2012.

That is when the world will end.

 

[silentSWAG]

i knew it!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Vaccine]

what should i do when marth is on the ledge and im on stage?
i get faired a lot but i really like kicking him in the face!

 

[FoxLisk]

what should i do when marth is on the ledge and im on stage?
i get faired a lot but i really like kicking him in the face!

if you stand close he can fair you, but you cover roll on & waveland on fairly well. with good use of CC you can stop non-tipped fairs at lowish %s, too. however if you stand close and arent careful he can roll on and get center stage back. he also has nair on if youre standing closeish which can be dangerous; you can CC shine between hits if you are spaced right & have low percent but otherwise it can **** you over.

i would say stand like right outside of tipper fair range (which is pretty far if he ledgehops on and floats forward a little and fairs late, be careful) and laser unless you have a good read.

vaguely relevantly: with fox, i like to DD pretty far out (like where I could easily get a grab on roll on but not much closer) and then as soon as they start their standup motion i run in and sh nair because i expect them to do the default standup. falco isnt really fast enough to do this but it might be a useful way to think about how to manipulate his options.

 

[Pi]

PP/M2K/other top level players

when ur playing a tense match between someone u know has the ability to beat u
(a tourney match, or otherwise important match)
what are you thinking about?

today i had some and i was already thinking about the outcome of the match, i had though i had grown out of this, but i guess not because i found myself saying 'well it's only the first match' or 'meh w/e it's winners/pools/swiss'

 

[Vaccine]

thanks for your advice!

 

[Bones0]

what should i do when marth is on the ledge and im on stage?
i get faired a lot but i really like kicking him in the face!

Shield grabbing attacks is simple, but effective, especially because it leads into uthrow dair spike. You can also CC into dsmash or shield grab. If they LH nair, if you CC the first hit you can still attack or get your shield up before the second hit. Use lasers to make it hard for him to ledge dash/jump from the ledge, and even if he does a regular getup, it will force him into shield. Once you get Marth in his shield by the ledge, you can abuse all sorts of things. Obviously your shield pressure gets a lot better without him being able to WD back (he can, but it's risky because of how it makes them DI, plus it doesn't do anything except put them right back on the ledge!). As a result, fade away dair will bait a lot of panicky grab attempts, or you can often just grab them right from the laser as they shield (again, uthrow dair is so helpful by the ledge). Be careful about the laser though because they can shield grab you first if they're ready for it/powershield it.

Aside from that, don't get too impatient and try to attack them as they are hanging, but you also shouldn't be too scared. If you ever get the opportunity to steal the ledge, it pretty much ends their stock because you can drop down, DJ bair (shine-bair if needed), and it covers his up-B so well. I've also found certain promise with ledge cancelled dairs to bait certain options, but that's one of my secrets which I never expose (feel special).

Giving that new smilie a test run. lulz

 

[Divinokage]

PP/M2K/other top level players

when ur playing a tense match between someone u know has the ability to beat u
(a tourney match, or otherwise important match)
what are you thinking about?

today i had some and i was already thinking about the outcome of the match, i had though i had grown out of this, but i guess not because i found myself saying 'well it's only the first match' or 'meh w/e it's winners/pools/swiss'

Normally, the matches get so intense that I don't even remember what happens. But other than that, if I do fail certain things I tell myself that I can hit him 2-3 times and then I can bring the advantage back to me. The words in my head are like: "It's ok if I SDed or got comboed, I can do this.. let's see what he's going to do now and then I can combo him and edgeguard" I'm always trying to see what the opponent is looking for now or how he's trying to bait me. I'm trying to stay focused at the task at hand which is to defeat my opponent and I think it should be as such in important matches. Even if the opponent is equally skilled, his name doesn't really matter, it's what he's trying to do that matters a lot more.

 

[Dr Peepee]

PP/M2K/other top level players

when ur playing a tense match between someone u know has the ability to beat u
(a tourney match, or otherwise important match)
what are you thinking about?

today i had some and i was already thinking about the outcome of the match, i had though i had grown out of this, but i guess not because i found myself saying 'well it's only the first match' or 'meh w/e it's winners/pools/swiss'

I'm not really prepared to answer that well from a personal perspective yet.....sorry. I can give some suggestions though.

-Treat it like any other match. Yeah it's a straightforward idea, but the methodology in doing so may be different for different people. To me, I'd want to think the same thoughts about their character that I would if I played the same character controlled by a worse player. "These are common setups and how I counter them" "these are their big moves" "I need to avoid being in X, Y, Z position no matter what" etc. This helps you focus on playing the game and taking that human factor out of it that can screw you over.

-Using human factors against the opponent. Rather than getting caught up in how it can happen to you, think about how your opponent feels often. If you're playing someone good and you think about how badly they will feel if they're down against you, then it can motivate you more to get that first hit/kill more. If you're down, think about how devastating it will be to get that huge comeback and make them hurt psychologically from you making a comeback on them. any surprise power plays you can make you can also feel comfortable about because they will also mess with your opponent's head "will they do that crazy thing again? should I adjust my play to avoid that damage? will he continue playing like that?" etc

I feel like there are more ways to expand on those two things so see if that can work before asking for more. That's all I can think of atm when I actually use it in game haha.

 

[Divinokage]

Ah yes, that's a good point PP. Feel how your opponent feels during the match, I also feel like this is pretty important to determine if you can start steamrolling them or when you have to hold back and defend yourself. I think this is something people need to practice often because Ì've been told often that they can't do that.

 

[Pi]

thanks .

 

[ShroudedOne]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIbvyJTm-c4#t=3m12s

Have you guys seen this? Armada's new CP for Fox on Pokemon Stadium. It looks...really...weird. But I suppose it's good? I just can't exactly figure out how he's thinking about Falco...I dunno.

 

[Veetaak]

He played better the second match as Falco, imo.

7:34 (Empty FH -->Shine turn around grab)

that was cool

His Falco is a bit weird but not that bad. Would be cool to see how it would have looked like if he mained Falco ^^

 

[leffen]

those matches where hella janky... his falco and my fox are usually much better.

cping falco is his only choice though, fox vs peach is at least 70-30 in ntsc.

 

[Pi]

armada in it to win it
perhaps the dawn of legit character CPing is upon us

 

[ShroudedOne]

Not to bring that discussion in here, but 70:30 seems a bit outrageous (and I main her).

 

[Pi]

so many variables to consider shrouded
and no offense but i guarantee you that armada understands the intricacies of the matchup when played at a high level far greater than you or most other players out there
but he is a human and humans are known to exaggerate a bit

i think assigning #:# to matchups is pretty pointless
from that statement we should just take it that 'armada feels the peach:fox matchup is ****ty enough on that stage to CP characers'

 

[Beat!]

^Yeah, "70-30" can mean completely different things, depending on who you ask.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Oh, I don't doubt that he understands it a lot better than I. I'm just shocked that in all the time he's played, he finds it that bad. Hmmm. Well, it'll be cool to see more of his other characters, I guess. Do what you think you should to win, I guess.

 

[Battlecow]

Well, his falco and peach did about the same amount of work on Leffen's fox. I think character CP'ing is a good idea, but he'll essentially need a PP-level falco to have a shot at beating the one fox who matters ATM with it, and I'm dubious about whether that falco was PP-level.

 

[Pi]

Well, his falco and peach did about the same amount of work on Leffen's fox. I think character CP'ing is a good idea, but he'll essentially need a PP-level falco to have a shot at beating the one fox who matters ATM with it, and I'm dubious about whether that falco was PP-level.

perhaps but it's still a PP level player (or higher) playing the falco

 

[Dr Peepee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIbvyJTm-c4#t=3m12s

Have you guys seen this? Armada's new CP for Fox on Pokemon Stadium. It looks...really...weird. But I suppose it's good? I just can't exactly figure out how he's thinking about Falco...I dunno.

This is pretty funny XD

It definitely looks like a CP Falco, but he's got the right idea.

those matches where hella janky... his falco and my fox are usually much better.

cping falco is his only choice though, fox vs peach is at least 70-30 in ntsc.

His only choice? He doesn't wanna do the ditto or that Marth I thought he had I guess lol.

Ah well, I can't say I blame him since that CP has to be getting old.

 

[Lovage]

-Using human factors against the opponent. Rather than getting caught up in how it can happen to you, think about how your opponent feels often. If you're playing someone good and you think about how badly they will feel if they're down against you, then it can motivate you more to get that first hit/kill more.

^ legit as ****

some of my best performances ever have been when i utilized this kind of thinking to the fullest, it shuts out any unsure or negative thoughts about your own performance, and gives you the utmost confidence that you can **** the sht out of this other dude you're playing.

edit: to clarify: having mental fortitude will help you perform at your best when it really counts, but you still have to be hella good at smash to actually beat good people lol.

 

[Divinokage]

armada in it to win it
perhaps the dawn of legit character CPing is upon us

Perhaps, it certainly looks like it's heading that direction to add even more depths to the gameplay. Mindgames outside the game, uh oh!

 

[crush]

perhaps but it's still a PP level player (or higher) playing the falco

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if armada's falco beat PP's in a MM.

 

[Druggedfox]

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if armada's falco beat PP's in a MM.

lol

10lols

 

[CK Momentum]

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if armada's falco beat PP's in a MM.

just remind armada to switch colors a lot. <3