PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[crush]

i thnik this game would be more balanced if maybe fox had a shino stall. sheik would no longer be the best character in melee because fox wouldnt almost not not get not camped by sheik (NOT), if that makes sense

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

fox has a shino stall, but its not a shino stall

 

[Dr Peepee]

@Winston: I don't like overusing ledge dashing because I like keeping it a mixup for when I really want to surprise someone. Also sometimes I forget and other times I don't want to crutch on it LOL.

But yes you're totally right I should advance my ability to do more of the advanced techniques. Hopefully I'll be able to do that soon haha.

 

[crush]

fox has a shine stall, but its not a shino stall

yeah but shine stall on ledge doesnt do much aside from keeping you in the air longer to mess with them and maybe making it easier to instant walljump on yoshis or something

and letting you turn around of course

 

[leffen]

falco is sick because he can mixup doublelasers + wavelands so good.

 

[Dr Peepee]

^yeah that lol

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

falco is sick because he has the asian bird flu

 

[tarheeljks]

he is the bird flu

 

[JPOBS]

I guess I should have said it's really underused by space animal players

Well as i said earlier, all the canadian fox's, plus the washignton foxs, plus lovage and stuff use it. im sure there are others i don't follow enough

but I DO think it's underused by Falcos and the reason is a combination of factors, namely, falco already has a ton of good options from the ledge. Ledgehop double lasers might be the single best thing from the ledge any character in the game has. So that, plus his plethora of other decent options makes falco players kinda hesitant to use it because they could SD.

I know personally, I use it way more with fox than falco.

 

[Rubyiris]

is shine turn around bair good from the ledge against any characters?

It can be. If they're at low percentage, you're ****ed.

The cool thing is that you can do a few mixups, like shine stall > sweet spot, or shine stall > waveland > stuff.

 

[Druggedfox]

Lovage ledgedashes? Maybe recently... but not too long ago he still spammed the **** out of ledgehop drill >_>

Also, shining before the ledgedash doesn't count... loss of invincibility is pretty noticeable when we're already not frame perfect.

 

[JPOBS]

ya i saw lovage ledgedashing a lot at Big House.

not sure why shining first wouldn't count. Isn't the loss on usable invicibility only one frame?

 

[Rubyiris]

I ledge dash > Shine a lot. *Shrug.*

I know I'm not a top player, or anything, but seriously. It it's technical, or useful, I probably do it. Sometimes I wonder if people actually know I exist outside of a target for teasing and ridicule.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

I ledge dash > Shine a lot. *Shrug.*

I know I'm not a top player, or anything, but seriously. It it's technical, or useful, I probably do it. Sometimes I wonder if people actually know I exist outside of a target for teasing and ridicule.

As a Fox / Falco co-main, I feel like ledgedash is not only harder, but less rewarding, especially compared to the other options Falco has like double lasers or illusion cancels. I don't recall ever getting a free shine from a ledgedash, but double lasers / ledgehop dair / other stuff have all been very nice to Falco. But you're a lot more technical these days, so maybe I'm just doing it wrong or too slow.

I'm gonna try to go the grev tournament this weekend. I feel like I won't have many other opportunities to practice before apex... hopefully I can learn quickly. PP, how're you gonna prepare for apex? Any special considerations this time around?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

zhu do invincible ledgedash -> utilt and then come back and tell of the awesomeness

 

[Dr Peepee]

As a Fox / Falco co-main, I feel like ledgedash is not only harder, but less rewarding, especially compared to the other options Falco has like double lasers or illusion cancels. I don't recall ever getting a free shine from a ledgedash, but double lasers / ledgehop dair / other stuff have all been very nice to Falco.

I'm gonna try to go the grev tournament this weekend. I feel like I won't have many other opportunities to practice before apex... hopefully I can learn quickly. PP, how're you gonna prepare for apex? Any special considerations this time around?

I've gotten shines on Mango from ledge dashing. I consider it a wonderful tool but not something to be used often haha.


I'm changing my focus in some ways, but I think I will save that post for after Tipped Off 7 this coming weekend so I can align my thoughts properly after playing Hungrybox in tournament. I think people will like that post though. =) Sit tight on it people.

I will say that I will be playing with two NC Falco mains extensively this break and plan on teaching them how to pressure like Mango in order to practice countering it. Ideally I can also work on a couple ideas I have for countering lasers and laser approaches but it's all silly theory things. Also, I'm having DoH stay with me New Years weekend to work on the Peach matchup.

My remaining concerns, which are basically all Sheik, can be handled by playing Twitch's Sheik in my opinion.

Oh and there's Samus....bleh lol. I have some friendlies with Darrell to work with and I'll just hard theorycraft from there. XD It's gotten me by before haha.

 

[genkaku]

I watch rubyiris vids sometimes

 

[Rubyiris]

Invincible ledgedash shine is more useful as Fox than it is for Falco. As Falco, I still normally do other recovery options, except I also mix in ledge hop fair, and maximum height ledge hop UAIR to counter spacing against dair, and people trying to double jump over normal things like lasers.

PP: You had plenty of opportunities to shine Mango's pressure. You need to disrespect that ****.

Also, Shiek is *** as hell. Especially when your main Shiek practice is Okami's WD back spam. **** that ****.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

Invincible ledgedash shine is more useful as Fox than it is for Falco.

PP: You had plenty of opportunities to shine Mango's pressure. You need to disrespect that ****.

Also, Shiek is *** as hell. Especially when your main Shiek practice is Okami's WD back spam. **** that ****.

ionno what it is about okami, but I do 1098109x better against him than other Sheiks, better or worse. I'm with PP on really disliking the matchup.

 

[Rubyiris]

It's different for me. I have an easier time with better shieks than when Okami spams the **** out of WD back.

Oh, and Okami disrespects all shield pressure all the time. It's easier for me to be aggressive against people who respect my pressure. LOL.

Okami forces me to be passive, and laser him more, so I hate fighting him.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Fun fact:

Shiz thinks Sheik is Falco's worst matchup. 60-40 Sheik.

Edit: It is worth noting he trained with a Sheik main(KeepspeedN).


My opinion is under maintenance on most matchups until further notice lol.

 

[Rubyiris]

I pretty much agree with Shiz.

I love counterpicking Shieks with Fox, though. FD/PS + Fox is like... free.

 

[choknater]

i like to counter pick sheiks with ice climbers

 

[Rubyiris]

You main ICs LOL.

 

[choknater]

ah, oh yeah!

 

[JPOBS]

falco vs sheik is my fav matchup

i don't see what all the fuss is about

 

[Rubyiris]

Falco vs Marth/Yoshi/Falco all day.

 

[Mew2King]

man you think falco loses to everyone

falco ***** the universe

 

[kevo]

i like to counter pick sheiks with ice climbers

As a joke (because I am so damn hopeless in the Sheik MU) I used to pull out my pocket icies against Sheik. By "pocket" I mean WD d-smash and wobbling.

I still lose but at least its entertaining.

 

[Rubyiris]

Falco ***** everything.

...Except for Shiek.

 

[Mew2King]

pp if you don't MASTER falco dittos b4 apex one of those 4 falcos are gonna beat u. Idk why you focus on the chars i play only when u already can beat me and i'll probably be worse at apex than i was at rom cuz i will be switching from brawl and melee, and i had only used a borrowed controller which i dont have anymore from rom4

 

[Dr Peepee]

man you think falco loses to everyone

falco ***** the universe

Read my entire post you silly goose(I said my opinions are under maintenance btw which means I don't have official stances on anything yet).

Giving facts out isn't a crime and doesn't have to reflect my opinion. XD

you think falco beats everyone and marth loses to everyone so that's not the type of thing you should be accusing people of. XD



Another fun fact: I don't think Falco/Zelda is bad for Zelda at all. 60/40 at worst for her. Shag from GA(some strange underground Zelda that started in 06 I see every other tipped off tournament lol) will put things in perspective REAL quick on that matchup lol.

You can view that as me johnning about Falco or having some faith in this game not being entirely horribly unbalanced for low tiers.

MEW2KING



None of this post is mad or intended to make people mad I'm just having fun until Tipped Off when I begin to make more serious posts lol. /disclaimer

 

[Rubyiris]

I beat Vman's Falco with Zelda the first time we ever played.

...Then he 4-stocked me with Mewtwo. :D

 

[Dr Peepee]

pp if you don't MASTER falco dittos b4 apex one of those 4 falcos are gonna beat u. Idk why you focus on the chars i play only when u already can beat me and i'll probably be worse at apex than i was at rom cuz i will be switching from brawl and melee, and i had only used a borrowed controller which i dont have anymore from rom4

I'm not focusing on your characters except for discussion purposes in my thread because that's how it came up......your characters can come up in discussion sometimes. XD

I do most of my work outside of the public view, mainly in my own mind, on my own gamecube, or with Twitch/some random smashers and sometimes my VCR and whatever goodies I get to replay from it. I plan on devoting quite a bit of effort to the Falco ditto(which I said in my post before the last one iirc and gave explicit examples as to how I would be doing so) and will certainly give it much more thought after TO7 when my only real matchup concern for that tournament is Jigglypuff.

 

[Rubyiris]

Just work on dat shine OOS meng.

 

[JPOBS]

ok but seriously, what makes sheik harder for falco than, say, marth or fox or even puff?

he combo's sheik super duper hard. He edgeguards her for ****ing free. her aerial mobility is balls and she doesn't have any priority below her so she should seriously die if she's ever above you. Her combo's vs falco are significant;y more diffcult to pull off than marth/foxs. CC > her moveset. CC shine > her life.

the only thing she has going for her is above average edgeguarding (compared to the rest of the cast), and relatively easy finishers (compared to marth)

other than that, i don't get the hype behind this matchup. falco ***** sheik imo.

 

[Pi]

m2k needs to pull out his pocket samus

 

[Mew2King]

DUDE whenever i see u post its about MARTH then i use sheik and ur focusing on SHEIK. UR GONNA BEAT ME ANYWAY. If FIRST place is your goal, u should try to beat the ppl that already beat you. I've never beaten you

 

[Kaffei]

i don't ledge dash. i dislike putting my hurtbox into the opponent from a disadvantageous position predictably. once your opponent is used to it, the invincibility matters surprisingly little.

there are better options anyway.

What's ledge dashing?

 

[Dr Peepee]

@m2k:

ionno what it is about okami, but I do 1098109x better against him than other Sheiks, better or worse. I'm with PP on really disliking the matchup.

I responded to this post because it happened and deserved to be responded to(in my opinion). I didn't create the topic. This is how my thread goes unless I create the topic like the one I did about offense or whatever. I've never started a matchup topic in my thread ever so don't go by what I post lmao. XD

And what I POST vs what I'm thinking about are two totally different things(sometimes...especially in the case of matchups though unless I state I've been thinking about it lately). If I'm posting what I already think about but I'm thinking of lots of new things that I don't post.....then I can understand your confusion....because that's what I'm doing lol. I'm not focusing on Sheik or Marth atm, only Jigglypuff. After TO7 I'll focus EXTENSIVELY on Falco dittos don't worry lol, but sometimes you need to remember that I can't get everything done at once and gotta take some of this in a day-by-day fashion.

After TO7(maybe a few days later) I will be more than happy to tell you that, no matter what happens in my thread, I will be thinking about Falco and Peach and other relevant for Apex matchups waaaaayyyy more. =)