PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Wenbobular]

I don't think Luigi misfiring matters as long as you don't put yourself in misfire trajectory

Side-b has ridiculous amounts of lag afterward, you can jump out there and spike all uncharged / partially side-b's within a huge vertical and horizontal range because Falco has great horizontal and even better vertical ... just hover slightly below him to dodge misfires and doublejump Dair if he releases early, doublejump back if he charges it more and edgeguard from there

If he recovers low and the Luigi is good with down-b you can still high ledgehop stall and shine Bair him or just do a low ledgehop Dair. He has a better chance to recover this way, but high ledgehop Dair or very good Firestalling is pretty ****

Always shield if you're in misfire trajectory and he's charging ... it's pretty easy to punish both misfires that land on stage and you can just get onto the ledge the same way as you would if he doesn't misfire

 

[Vaccine]

i suck at falco dittos.
TIPS PLEASE!!

 

[Battlecow]

So PP said a while ago that he was gonna write a long post about mango. Is that still happening, or did I miss it, or what?

 

[leffen]

Misfiring still matters (a lot). Not only can he get back after losing his jump etc but it makes some otherwise great edgeguards really risky. Misfiring is still really hard to punish
(it slipoffs almost everytime).

And for dairing the side b, while it is true that it has lag, if he uses them correctly its much harder than you think (note: I suffer from PAL dair but even with that accounted for its still hard). In your "DJ situation" he has the frame advantage if he charges it a bit. If he predicts you double jumping before you do it it often ends in disaster (reverse hit, esp misfire fffffffuuu).
Also, for you to be BELOW him, he has to be doing something REALLY wrong, he should always go for the edge or slipoffing off a platform (when you got the edge) and still, knocking him far enough offstage so that he needs to side b indicates he has bad DI or is has pretty high %. Just saying.

As for "high ledgehop stall" when doing this, ALWAYS "DI" away from the stage during the jump. This prevents him from stealing the ledge since he wont be able to turn you around with the "coin" hitbox, thus making you grab the ledge before him even if you get hit.

and for shine bairing / dairing, please, he will just tech them easily >_<.
AJP has come up with this ******** thing, where he jumps to grab the ledge and bairs at the same time. Bair has a low lag, but a pretty nice lasting hitbox and it shrinks his hitbox too, making him way harder to hit from onstage with a dair. Most importantly though, it makes him able to press R / L to tech early without airdodging (he can already do this with up B btw) which makes it really hard to get a solid edgeguard since techs most attacks, grabs ledge if i restall / roll up / miss him >_>.


Oh and Bones:"I've been meaning to ask this for a while. Is it even possible to nair shine or dair shinelate enough onto a Fox's shield without them shining OOS? Last time I played Chillin my approaches (which in hindsight were REALLY predictable) were just getting shut down every time. I can't remember if I was FFing after the aerials correctly or if I wasn't shining soon enough after landing. Assuming Fox can do it no matter what, what about Falco's shine OOS?"

Dair has unstaled a 2 frame window and fox shine takes 4. This means that if you have staled your dair (it stales on shield btw!!) he has a "guaranteed " shine oos. But if he shines oos asap and you lcancel you will always tech the shine lol which means they generally try to shine oos after your shine during shield pressure.
However, do note that you can space away, use nair/fair/bair etc to unstale (however shine will stale fast so get mad good at doing shine->shine/nair asap since that is your biggest vulnerability while shield pressuring).


@HIV+

Falco dittos is mad crazy, i'll try to write smth up tomorrow(today), its 7am here atm... ~_~

 

[Dr Peepee]

@Battlecow: I'll write more long stuff when I feel like it. I never wrote that Mango post but I'll do it eventually.

After Genesis at the earliest.

 

[Veetaak]

(note: I suffer from PAL dair)

It sounds like a disease xD

I hope you don't have to go through surgery

 

[Divinokage]

Falco dittos aren't THAT hard, just gotta be smart with your tools.. Learn your Falco matchup. =P

 

[Wenbobular]

@leffen - them side-b'ing high happens all the time vs bad Luigis haha (most of the Luigis I've faced are either bad or don't have people going out to spike them so they do uncharged side-b's a LOT from what I've seen)

That being said I will admit Luigi gets harder to edgeguard if he charges / recovers lower but I still think it's doable

Also I always forget PAL Falco isn't as broken ~_~

 

[AvengerAngel]

Dair has unstaled a 2 frame window and fox shine takes 4. This means that if you have staled your dair (it stales on shield btw!!) he has a "guaranteed " shine oos. But if he shines oos asap and you lcancel you will always tech the shine lol which means they generally try to shine oos after your shine during shield pressure.
However, do note that you can space away, use nair/fair/bair etc to unstale (however shine will stale fast so get mad good at doing shine->shine/nair asap since that is your biggest vulnerability while shield pressuring).

Nope, attacks don't get stale on shields. They only become stale when you hit an enemy. Hitting shields or other stuff like Shy Guys, Brinstar's pillars etc. won't do anything


Also let's play some Falco dittos at BEAST 2 <3

 

[Strong Badam]

damage indeed doesn't stale on shield.
shy guys & brinstar's pillars, however, do stale damage (& therefore hitlag & shieldstun), as damage is being dealt.

 

[AvengerAngel]

Are you sure? I can remember Magus saying that those things don't stale damage, but I've never tested it lol. I've only tested it on shields x)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

those things have hurtboxes and stale moves afaik. Easy way to test is to find out the unstale percent something does (such as fox's shine, 5%) and then do it to one of those objects a bunch of times then hitting another character and seeing the damage

 

[Strong Badam]

I tested it before I answered to be sure. LOL

 

[AvengerAngel]

Wow cool, I didn't know that. I'll have to stop hitting Shy Guys in the middle of the match lolol

 

[Divinokage]

Well the difference is pretty insignificant, it's not like Brawl where you hit the guy with one move then that move becomes so much weaker lol.

 

[AvengerAngel]

Yeah I was j/k, but sometimes I still miss the fastfall timing on shields when the Dair is completely fresh. I guess I've got too much used to the stale Dair timing xP

 

[Wenbobular]

Gets pretty important in teams when you'd kneed people too much and suddenly you can't knee your opponent out of your partner's grab
Then again if your knee is staled that much you're probably ****** them

 

[Mahone]

Gets pretty important in teams when you'd kneed people too much and suddenly you can't knee your opponent out of your partner's grab
Then again if your knee is staled that much you're probably ****** them

We should team when i come back to Nova, jiggs falcon *****

 

[Mew2King]

i only marth dittoed mango once, i won with 60 damage

i think falco is mango's best, then puff, fox, then idk. falcon 4th maybe

 

[Palpi]

i only marth dittoed mango once, i won with 60 damage

then I 4 stocked hax and jman with jigglypuff

i think falco is mango's best, then puff, fox, then idk. falcon 4th maybe

fixed.

10fixed

 

[Jake13]

2 days without posts? Where you at guys

PP: you going to that LA tourney before genesis?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Tournament Saturday lol

 

[Divinokage]

Some people are just too busy fighting and training for smashboards. =)

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

Some people are just too busy fighting and training for smashboards. =)

Dude last night, I had meatloaf and got 3-0ed by m2k.

PP you should just PM all the details on how to beat m2k, that'd be tighttttttttttt.

You guys should watch for Abate (Luigi), I think he's a potential up and coming good player YEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[Divinokage]

Dude last night, I had meatloaf and got 3-0ed by m2k.

PP you should just PM all the details on how to beat m2k, that'd be tighttttttttttt.

You guys should watch for Abate (Luigi), I think he's a potential up and coming good player YEEEEEEEEEEEE

You are what you eat after all.. dammm!! =P Ya I want tips how to beat M2k too!

 

[Druggedfox]

You are what you eat after all.. dammm!! =P Ya I want tips how to beat M2k too!

Doesn't that involve switching mains though? >_>

 

[Dark Hart]

You've beaten Jason before, Zhu, do it again

 

[Divinokage]

Doesn't that involve switching mains though? >_>

Hell no! I've got this!

 

[Dr Peepee]

2 days without posts? Where you at guys

PP: you going to that LA tourney before genesis?

Ummmmm odds are pretty bad I think. =(

Some people are just too busy fighting and training for smashboards. =)

Haha I was at a tourney yesterday so that's my john.

Dude last night, I had meatloaf and got 3-0ed by m2k.

PP you should just PM all the details on how to beat m2k, that'd be tighttttttttttt.

You guys should watch for Abate (Luigi), I think he's a potential up and coming good player YEEEEEEEEEEEE

Who did he use on you? It definitely matters LOL.

You wouldn't tell M2K what I told you would you?

Ah it'd be cool to see a modern Luigi. I know there's stuff Luigis don't do that could definitely be done so I'm interested in what Abate does.

You are what you eat after all.. dammm!! =P Ya I want tips how to beat M2k too!

Stop confining yourself to just a defensive playstyle first of all. If M2K can define how you play easily then he can tear you apart quickly. *is aware of how this help will be interpreted*

 

[Divinokage]

Defensive playstyle? I think I'm offensive.. umm.. lol.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Then I suggest doing things differently than you ordinarily would so that M2K will not know how to handle you as easily at any rate. He understands habits and playstyles fairly well so anything unusual will cause him to falter until he's able to adapt.

 

[Divinokage]

Ya that makes sense, I figured that's how you beat him.. mm..

 

[Dr Peepee]

Well sort of but it's harder than that haha. That's a great start though to help you get ideas. =)

 

[unknown522]

i only marth dittoed mango once, i won with 60 damage

i think falco is mango's best, then puff, fox, then idk. falcon 4th maybe

I agree with this.

Also, Vanilluxe sucks.

You are what you eat after all.. dammm!! =P Ya I want tips how to beat M2k too!

You gotta get through that sheik first. <_<. God damn.

 

[Strong Badam]

Ya that makes sense, I figured that's how you beat him.. mm..

it's really hard to be able to change your habits quickly under the pressure of a tourney match. at mid level play it's hard to even realize you have habits or can change them.

 

[strawhats]

@kage: out of m2k's 3 characters who do u do the best against (marth/fox/sheik)

Zhu, who did m2k use against u in tourney at no johns?

Lol, pp keeps a little black book on his opponent's(memory database) habits, and approaches.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Sounds like cunning kitsune up in here

 

[Little England]

What are you even talking about? XD

 

[Divinokage]

it's really hard to be able to change your habits quickly under the pressure of a tourney match. at mid level play it's hard to even realize you have habits or can change them.

Ya I guess but changing your style completely inside one match is pretty ridiculous too lol. Im not sure if I can do that, yet.

@kage: out of m2k's 3 characters who do u do the best against (marth/fox/sheik)

Zhu, who did m2k use against u in tourney at no johns?

Lol, pp keeps a little black book on his opponent's(memory database) habits, and approaches.

Marth and Fox are infinitely easier than Sheik. lol.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

What are you even talking about? XD

lol something vro told me about ckit that was along the lines of this (but in his head)

Lol, pp keeps a little black book on his opponent's(memory database) habits, and approaches.