PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Winston]

While you're theoretically right that someone who learns consistantly faster and puts in the same amount of time/effort should remain better than someone who learns slow and puts in the same time/effort, I don't think its possible to ever define how an individual learns or how much talent they have. From a practical standpoint, the only thing to do is give it your best at all times and be happy with your results regardless.

Well sure, but I thought you were arguing that there was no such thing as talent. We pretty much agree then

 

[LumpyCPU...]

melee is a horrible example for this sort of discussion, imo.

not enough people playing it to compare it to starcraft, chess, sex, or basketballs.


a player's overall skill level is determined by a near infinite amount of unaccountable factors.
there are too many variables to explain why player X is better than player Y.
it takes a combination of willpower, experience, and unknowable traits to be amazing at anything.

 

[Winston]

"Near infinite amount of factors" is a laughable exaggeration. Isn't it like 5 relevant factors? >__>

 

[LumpyCPU...]

if you think tech skill or reaction time or mindgames (LOL) are the factors i'm talking about, you aren't thinking broad enough.

i was trying to acknowledge the huge number of differences between any two people's brains, experiences, and motor skills. people are different beyond a point of casual comparison, imo.

edit: i've never liked the idea of aiming to be the best at something, as opposed to constantly improving. (though i see both as impossible goals. lol)

 

[choknater]

neither is impossible

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

edit: i've never liked the idea of aiming to be the best at something, as opposed to constantly improving. (though i see both as impossible goals. lol)

I agree with this.

 

[JPOBS]

...not true

care to elaborate?

I'm particularly interested in your opinion cuz you've always said you don't consider yourself naturally talented at smash.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

**** me, right?


edit: whoever linked this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDIAYpLmDkI#t=3m25s left me entertained for an hour.

 

[Battlecow]

Natural talent definitely exists. Take a close look at Isai and then try to pretend that that's all hard work. I dares ya.

 

[Rubyiris]

You guys are talking about some very awesome things keep it up :3

 

[ChivalRuse]

Did you like that video I posted, Rubyiris?

 

[unknown522]

man, after going to that tourney in pittsburg, I never realized until then that my falco ***** low/mid tiers so badly.

 

[Druggedfox]

Is that your falco, or just falco in general? Serious question

 

[Wenbobular]

Maybe it's both ~_~

 

[JPOBS]

unknown ***** low tiers in general

 

[Sion]

unknown *****

yeyeye

go unknown

 

[Lightsyde]

Unknown: Money match the next time we encounter each other at a tourney?

YOU AIN'T EVEN GOOD

 

[Paju]

Can someone please help me with the mario, dr. mario and luigi match ups? I feel like I'm completely lost on those match ups and I really don't have any idea what I'm supposed to do against them. And if someone could also give me links on good videos of those match ups I would appreciate that really much.

 

[Lightsyde]

I'm busy at work so I'll let somebody take it but

Lasers and Bair are your best friend.

 

[Divinokage]

Who doesn't **** low tiers nowadays? Oh I know! No one. =D

 

[Wenbobular]

Smart lasers kinda kill Luigi's wavedash approach and autocancel Bairs are hard to beat for Luigi, not to mention holding down makes anything Luigi does lead into nothing except grab for a long time ... also edgeguarding Luigi is pretty easy if you're confident, just go out there and spike

The DI is a little tricky because you're supposed to DI toward him if he's doing ground moves and away from him if he's doing air moves (with intent to combo of course, survival DI still applies and Luigi's aerial finishers are pretty weak with good DI)

Dunno about Mario clones though although I think Peepee has vids vs Shroomed
Besides they're basically slow versions of Marth with less range, speed, dash dance length, grab range, finishing strength (Mario) ... if you play safe I don't really know what the Marios are supposed to do to get through lasers and broken hitboxes

 

[Dr Peepee]

Can someone please help me with the mario, dr. mario and luigi match ups? I feel like I'm completely lost on those match ups and I really don't have any idea what I'm supposed to do against them. And if someone could also give me links on good videos of those match ups I would appreciate that really much.

Mario and Doc are pretty much the same in terms of fighting them with Falco. Don't let lasers get caped(treat them like powershields and PS them back or jump over the lower ones or shoot blanks to bait it, etc), watch out for Dsmash shenanigans on your shield/CC Dsmash stuff, and either beat out Nair approaches with Bair or punish the lag with Dair or laser grab or something. Also don't allow yourself to get easily caped while recovering(pick tricky spots to up-B).

Luigi likes wavedashing, so if you keep lasers out that makes it tough for him. Know when he would try to WD attack(like Ftilt or something) in between your lasers and either hit him first with a Nair or something or just Bair if you think he might approach. I don't really advise challenging his Nair because that leads to dumb stuff lol so just bait it and then **** his landing lag. His recovery is pretty easy to punish with Bairs/Dairs and you can react to the shorter side Bs so prepare for misfires often then punish the shorter side Bs if a misfire didn't occur.

I don't know of any good Falco vs Mario or Luigi sets off the top of my head, but I have me vs Shroomed I can link you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVYLwkdxrQ0

 

[Lightsyde]

Zhu vs Mango's Mario lmao

 

[Winston]

SW vs. Ka master. Ka master might have been rusty etc., but this is mainly to get an idea of combos you can do to Luigi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLPesNzZwgc

Just be fast with your dair shines, and if there are platforms, you can combo him just like anyone else. Dair shine when you can, then when he's in the air try to bait him and use utilt/bair/lasers to rack up damage as he tries to come down.

Unknown vs. Pakman was also an alright set

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J26udQlb6M0

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

zhu vs eddymexico is also pretty good.

 

[unknown522]

Is that your falco, or just falco in general? Serious question

Maybe it's both ~_~

unknown ***** low tiers in general

yeyeye

go unknown

yeah, it's definitely both.

Unknown: Money match the next time we encounter each other at a tourney?

YOU AIN'T EVEN GOOD

sure =p.

Also, you look exactly the same as D20.

Can someone please help me with the mario, dr. mario and luigi match ups? I feel like I'm completely lost on those match ups and I really don't have any idea what I'm supposed to do against them. And if someone could also give me links on good videos of those match ups I would appreciate that really much.

Don't let them get close until you're ready to attack. Falco has the power to keep them out, between his lasers and aerials. At lower percents if they try to approach from the air, then n-air them and start a combo. If you see that they are trying to stay on the ground, then it's your time to d-air. If you feel that it's difficult to approach them, then keep them away with your b-air and u-tilts.

Against luigi specifically, use the lasers to stop his WD approaches. His movement is bad if he's not in a WD, and thankfully you can shut it down with lasers. Once he gives up approaching, or gets hit by a laser when you're close to him, then it's time to combo him. If he tries to approach with a short hop, then laser him to stop his moves, then hit him with a n-air before he can attack you.

 

[genkaku]

I hate doc for his CC dsmash.
That thing isn't even fun anymore.

 

[Wenbobular]

You have Dair, why are you worried

 

[Walt]

Yeah you have the best anti-CC move in the game. Just avoid jabbing or nairing doc.

 

[Rubyiris]

i didn't look at the video until now. it's good advice, but it's also something I've already learned very well thanks to my ex roommates. That was definitely pre-december my most prominent weakness, but after witnessing someone else in my exact situation, having the tools to improve but not due to emotional weakness, i took steps necessary to remove that obsticle.

For those who want to call bull****, it's the truth, though I'll be more specific. I have removed most emotion from my IN-GAME self. When it comes to the actual match I am very focused and controlled. It is still noticeable when I am and am not confident, which is my next hurdle, learning to never lose hope, and never allow the loss of momentum or loss of the crowd to defeat me.

In the thread I made in melee discussion someone called me an emotional smasher and that's incorrect. I'm a confidence-based smasher, which is further accentuated by the fact that Falco is a confidence-based character.

Outside of smash I still have difficulties with my emotions. I'm bottling up an unhealthy amount of hate, disappointment, and depression due to a rocky childhood and a horrible beginning of adulthood, and it's actually getting worse despite my actual life getting better.

 

[Deleted member]

I think a character should accentuate your strengths and cover your weaknesses as a player. i play fox because i like to out think my opponents and it forces me play less linear. I love unpredictable strategies and I've come up with many for fox on my own. as i told druggedfox on aim, a fox that doesn't think is just a worse pikachu.

that said, I think falco is best for players with POOR confidence.

 

[Palpi]

Because you don't need confidence if you character is broken?



Seriously, I agree with you Umbreon. I think I play fox for similar reasons.

 

[Vaccine]

so i just found out the u can sh bair with falco and it will auto cancel if u bair as soon as u jump. when i told my friend about my recent discovery he said "omg i hate when falcos do that, its so broken"
how is this broken and when should i sh ac bair instead of shffl bair?

 

[Wenbobular]

Have you ever played Falcon or something had a Falco AC Bair -> fadeaway on your shield?
Ugg...
Basically you start it a little out of their range (preferably when they're shielding), slam them with that enormous hitbox, and fade back out before they can retaliate
Even more fun if you just keep doing it ~_~

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

james, falco's bair is one of the best moves in the game because it beats or trades with almost every other move in the game. The only real way to punish it is in the lag (or a favorable trade, like a knee or ganon fair) so auto canceling it is really strong.

 

[Battlecow]

Yeah you have the best anti-CC move in the game.

Peach's Dsmash...?

 

[EpixAura]

I think a character should accentuate your strengths and cover your weaknesses as a player. i play fox because i like to out think my opponents and it forces me play less linear. I love unpredictable strategies and I've come up with many for fox on my own. as i told druggedfox on aim, a fox that doesn't think is just a worse pikachu.

that said, I think falco is best for players with POOR confidence.

I don't know wtf you're basing this on, but I find it stereotypical, offensive, and true. Also, a Fox that doesn't think is just a faster Falco.
How exactly did you decide Falco = poor confidence, though? I agree, now that I think about it, but still, I have to ask.

 

[Da Shuffla]

He might not have meant that if you play Falco, then you have poor confidence, but I can see players whom have poor confidence turning to a character like Falco.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Falco has lasers to do the thinking for him.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

ignorant as **** haha