PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[mers]

I kinda wish it was possible to utilt OoS. and by kinda I mean I wish it was possible when I play spacies but not when I play falcon.

Or Marth. Holy **** that would be good.

 

[Divinokage]

Well if you can learn how to powershield, you can powershield utilt. =)

 

[Winston]

Or Marth. Holy **** that would be good.

Hmm, I think Sheik's would be better actually. It'd be like a shine OOS for sheik that always comboed into stuff.

 

[mers]

Well if you can learn how to powershield, you can powershield utilt. =)

That's less good, cause you have to do it right after something hits your shield. You can't use it like you would usmash out of shield.

 

[~Tac~]

Shine OOS for punishing in the air

That was disgusting.

 

[mers]

You know what I just noticed? Mango DIs Fox's shine amazingly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arQCoUhB5Ps#t=3m14s

Twice right here. He makes it onto the platform the first time.

 

[JPOBS]

Bair shield stun is gdlk.

ya but the l-cancel lag on it so terribad sometimes depending on the situation. spacing.

Shine nair oos vs shine bair oos

I feel if you can connect the bair everytime the nair is useless, so underpowered in comparison.

Opinions?

i like nair oos in situations when both of us are near the edge but im more towards the centre. the nair wil push them offstage (although not as far as the powerful bair could) and give you a edgeguard chance.
bair oos in the same situation has the chance of them di the shine hard away and only landing the weak hit or something and then ruin ur chance. they could also di it hard in and get bair'd towards the middle. I prefer nair to put them offstage in almost all cases.

pretty specific but whatever. bair oos is better everywhere else i can think of right now.

 

[Sinji]

yea Mango has good reads. He knows where to DI.

 

[Divinokage]

Doing proper DI usually requires split second reactions sometimes. Can you guys learn how to do it? =P

 

[Pi]

@PP

With your playstyle of falco, talking serious tournament play, controlling the stage positions, keeping your advantages, etc.

How much of an obstacle is technical precision? The things that are staple in your (and all falco play), are they much harder than say, another characters staple techniques ?

Assuming you perform them the way they need to be performed, timing, spacing, etc.

 

[~Tac~]

Doing proper DI usually requires split second reactions sometimes. Can you guys learn how to do it? =P

After reading and researching up on that Concentration and Focus thread, I know that its in my ability not too far from now. In slight relevance to the post by 3 just before this one as well.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Sorry I haven't been around guys, but I've been out and about. I'll try to watch this thread better.

I'm convinced falco dittos are execution battles that PP will never lose...

So simple but so obvious! =p

I will respectfully say that jman had no clue what the hell he was doing vs shino stall >_>

Yeah I feel like he could've done much better vs that, but pressure may have gotten to him. eh.

well then, can u please elaborate for us on how to effectively stop the shino stall 100% of the time?

Being that smash is a variable game, there is no 100% just do this and it'll work answer. Besides that would be boring lol. People get conditioned to your "best" response to stuff and then you have to start getting tricky.

That's not to say that there aren't some good ideas that help with handling shino stalling though.

-use shield and WD OOS to the edge. position self with WD OOS or DD'ing.

-jump tricks that can either be drop to the edge or throw out a move to catch the Sheik in vulnerability frames.

-RSHL edgecancel grab. risky I guess but no one would know what you're doing lol.

-what zhu said.

-there's obviously more.

Dash dance -> find timing -> shine turn around STEALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

The sad thing is whenever I try that I get smoked

=(

Then you didn't find the right timing. =p But yeah man you probably just need to play vs that stuff more and you'll have it down.

could someone shed some light on what some of the advantages/disadvantages of nairing out out of shield vs dairing out of shield r?

Nair'ing OOS:

-much more deceptive of a move, especially OOS(people always think it ends before it does, etc).

-could help push opponent into desirable kill/teching position(in a different way than Dair can).

-could potentially hit someone trying to reach out and hit you with a move before Dair could(like Marth Fsmash or something).


Dair'ing OOS:

-Beats/trades with more approaches/higher priority move basically.

-more reward for landing a Dair typically.

Bair shield stun is gdlk.

I really like it myself. I should abuse it more.

Well if you can learn how to powershield, you can powershield utilt. =)

I tried to learn this months ago but it's tough <.<

@PP

With your playstyle of falco, talking serious tournament play, controlling the stage positions, keeping your advantages, etc.

How much of an obstacle is technical precision? The things that are staple in your (and all falco play), are they much harder than say, another characters staple techniques ?

Assuming you perform them the way they need to be performed, timing, spacing, etc.

Well, first of all, it does not matter to me personally how technical a character is. I would learn how to master their technical ability so that it didn't become a problem for me under most circumstances. I'm pretty sure this will skew my answer but I'm not sure.

In the modern, tech-oriented metagame, no, Falco's technical requirements aren't massive to play in a way like mine. I suppose that there are certain tricky timings(like LHDL or exact aerial-shine shield pressure string timings) and generally difficult things(JC'ing anything out of a shine for example) Falco players must learn to master in order to do things like myself. Anything advanced that's like me may be some strange combination of those things that forces more inputs/complexity of said inputs than I realize, but I haven't watched myself in a while so I'm not sure on that one haha.

Compared to other characters, then yeah Falco is most definitely harder to use in a technical sense. Fox is the only character that can rival him, and people always say Fox is harder. I think they just require a different kind of technical thought if that makes sense. They're both tough to control in their own right, and it doesn't help that any character can get pushed pretty far in terms of technical prowess(this can also be said in reverse. Falco and Fox, among others, can be simplified so they don't have to worry so much about making mistakes, but most people don't think about the game in that way these days).

This was probably not the best I could have done with answering this question, but it's hard for me to figure this out based on my own play since I can't/haven't analyzed myself well ever and I (usually) keep improving so my old stuff doesn't seem quite like me.

After reading and researching up on that Concentration and Focus thread, I know that its in my ability not too far from now. In slight relevance to the post by 3 just before this one as well.

You gotta keep it positive, always. Stay focused on the goal and don't let silly things people say get to you. You got this Tac. =)

 

[Pi]

That essentially answers my question (reading between some of the lines, I phrased it poorly but it's a hard question to phrase), so ty


I just had a good idea for falco ditto fun

Only the losing falco can laser

 

[Deleted member]

"technical ability" is simply defined as consistently performing exactly whatever it is that you want to do. since falco players lately use less conventional methods to bypass falco's relatively low speed, I think there could be a very solid argument that falco currently has a higher technical threshold than fox does.

oos falco can revert to simple wd back oos or a ROLL DODGE. a lot of players rely on hitting falco's shield to feign some kind of positional advantage that can easily be set to neutral when the falco player doesn't fall for the bait. remember that control is really what falco is all about and rides momentum strongly, so your best bet as a falco player is to strategize ways to find an advantage, hold it, or to reverse a losing position back in your favor. in many ways, the whole "confidence" issue is really disguised as your ability to control the opponent, so it's okay to consider them one and the same.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

Hey guys I'm 21 in like 21 minutes.

Just saying hi and thanks to you guys and Falco. I owe you guys (and Falco) so much.

No joke.

I don't think I'd have friends or confidence (in and outside smash) if it wasn't for you guys (and Falco).



I typed Flaco so many times while typing this.

 

[unknown522]

happy birthday man!

It's 2:48 here.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I hate waiting til WC birthdays because I have to wait so long before it's their birthday in their time zone so I can tell them happy birthday then haha.

<33333 though man.

Also yeah I'm glad Falco and smash helped you gain confidence as well dude. =)

 

[~Tac~]

Much love, bro. Happy birfday. <3

From Flacos everywhere.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Happy 21st Zhu make a fortune selling to underage kids

 

[Cyrain]

ZHHUUUUUU happy birthday yeeeeeeee

 

[Lightsyde]

Happy birthday Julieeeeeeeee

Your bird made me wanna play my bird so thanks for that.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

Happy birthday Julieeeeeeeee

Your bird made me wanna play my bird so thanks for that.

That trickles alllll the way down to my MAN YUSUKE BOMBSOLDIER.

Still think he's phenomenal for figuring out half the **** he figured out back in ****ing 2005. To this day I still don't think I pillar as fast as he does. That ****er.




<333 everyone

 

[L__]

ZHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

 

[Divinokage]

Happy birthday, canadian piggy. =P

 

[Veetaak]

I saw someone who really looked like Zhu on my way home on the bus today

 

[~Tac~]

That trickles alllll the way down to my MAN YUSUKE BOMBSOLDIER.

Still think he's phenomenal for figuring out half the **** he figured out back in ****ing 2005. To this day I still don't think I pillar as fast as he does. That ****er.




<333 everyone

True dat. Bombsoldier got me started. You and Forward got me motivated to learn adv. tech skill. Then PP has me practicing to enter the PR. Sick Falcos. All of ya. (And Shiz/Lambchops. Best laser game ever.<3)

 

[unknown522]

I inspired myself.

 

[Teczer0]

xD A little late to the party but whatever.

Happy Birthday Zhu <3

Coolest falco imo.

 

[V3ctorMan]

what everyone else said zhu n_n; <33

If only you played yoshi, it'd be perfect <333

 

[JPOBS]

bombsoldier will live forever

 

[Divinokage]

True dat. Bombsoldier got me started. You and Forward got me motivated to learn adv. tech skill. Then PP has me practicing to enter the PR. Sick Falcos. All of ya. (And Shiz/Lambchops. Best laser game ever.<3)

I inspired myself.

True warriors are capable of breaking any limit. You have to learn how to have your own special powers if you ever want to have a chance to defeat great players.

 

[choknater]

my level 9 training while i've been away from people has really paid off. played against some real players recently and just learning new tools and tactics really helped my game a lot.

 

[FoxLisk]

i just rewatched bombsoldier v ken for the first time in a while... that kid was amazing. i did not remember how far ahead of his time he was. very impressive.

 

[crush]

he does certain stuff that i really like that people today dont even use

 

[FoxLisk]

he does certain stuff that i really like that people today dont even use

got any examples?

i really like his willingness to trade hits with marth (which is, in general, a bad thing) when ti will result in marth being off the ledge or otherwise in a bad position. that was my favourite thing i noticed about him that falcos dont do.

 

[crush]

the shine jump cancel full hop shine double jump up air 5 seconds in this video against fox

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIAzTaaVI0Q

he also does it to marth too which for me seems much more effective against

 

[Bl@ckChris]

thats cause people know how to DI shines now. most of us are afraid of shinebairs, so we get the **** out.

 

[Vaccine]

what r the uses of fox trotting?
when should i fox trot and when should i wd?

 

[Jake13]

I usually fox trot when I play fox

If you're trying to move across the stage faster just empty short hop

Otherwise its just your choice to mix up between WD and a quick dash, they're about the same

 

[Winston]

edit: sorry, thought this was fox boards

I think WDing is a lot better with Falco. It's faster than his dash, depending on the distance you have to travel