PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Walt]

Nothing is more devastating than Ganon pound for pound. Falcon just gets more hits to make up for his only beefy hits being knee and stomp. Ganon has got so much beef dude needs some A1.

 

[crush]

You can't crush people if you don't play power characters. Falcon is not a power character.

lol i actually play falco/fox but i like to put falcon as my character for all three games

i said that not because i crushed people, but because crush is my name btw

 

[Cyrain]

No vids of my Falco yet. =( Hopefully sometime soon. If I don't get any recorded before Zenith then I'll try and get some good matches captured there and I'll post em in this thread. ^_^

 

[FoxLisk]

I'm convinced falco dittos are execution battles that PP will never lose...

i feel this way too. it's a little more than that but execution is more central to falco dittos than any other matchup IMO

To **** Darksyde all you need is sloppy shino stalls

lololol grapes

True. Dittoes are my hardest match.
I'm at the point that if they're better than me, I get owned.
And if their worse than me, their style is super ugly and i can't read them well. I still usually win, it's just stupidly difficult.

if they're worse than you cant you just tech skill them to death? (see above)

For example, know marth's dash attack range. That's the stupidest marth gimmick in the world, and it works amazingly anyway. Know the timing's such that you never end up about to shoot a laser, then realize he's already at you with his dash attack. Marth players are all going to try this, as it is one of marth's best options, *assuming the falco player lets it happen*. If you're conscious of your lasers and overall spacing, marth's dash attack just means you get free dash dance--> dair --> free half a stock.

ugh. you make it sound easy. i swear this is the single hardest part of the falco v marth for me.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Shino stalls are exponentially **** against lesser players.

 

[~Tac~]

Nothing is more devastating than Ganon pound for pound. Falcon just gets more hits to make up for his only beefy hits being knee and stomp. Ganon has got so much beef dude needs some A1.

+ :A1: =

 

[stingers]

Shino stalls are exponentially **** against lesser players.

shino stalls are **** against everyone. i seem to recall an incident vs. jman not too long ago...

 

[Druggedfox]

I will respectfully say that jman had no clue what the hell he was doing vs shino stall >_>

 

[unknown522]

Any general tips for falco vs. sheik and marth from any of the top/seasoned falco's in here? I haven't been maining him for too long, but I honestly feel like my falco is a ****ing monster and is better than my fox atm. Trying to keep going with Falco, but I just don't know a lot of the matchups because I haven't used him in tournament enough.

thinks about making a long writeup.

Currently at a fest though. I'll get back to you on that.

Also, what problems are you generally having with the characters?

 

[ChivalRuse]

shino stalls are **** against everyone. i seem to recall an incident vs. jman not too long ago...

Oh, well, maybe. I mean, Shine stalls are amazing when your opponents don't actually realize you're fully invincible, then they get themselves launched by up-b into a combo.

 

[stingers]

I will respectfully say that jman had no clue what the hell he was doing vs shino stall >_>

well then, can u please elaborate for us on how to effectively stop the shino stall 100% of the time?

 

[LumpyCPU...]

can someone link a video of this jman incident?

or of the shino stall doing anything other than looking weird?

or am i an idiot? i'm out of the loop... lol

 

[stingers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI_hGcWjTKA

 

[LumpyCPU...]

OOOH i remember watching that.

thanks, broski.

 

[ChivalRuse]

This is almost undoubtedly the wrong forum for this question, but do you guys know why, when M2K Shino stalls, he DIs his up-b out to sweetspot from approximately a 45 degree angle before doing the standard vertical sweetspot for all subsequent up-bs?

 

[LumpyCPU...]

so he can't get dtilted during an accidental 1 frame of vulnerability?

 

[ChivalRuse]

That's what I figured. But, man! M2K really doesn't have faith in his technical abilities, does he?

 

[LumpyCPU...]

idk. i'm just a random scrub. lol don't listen to me.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Better safe than sorry. Nobody is perfect. When theres the choice between two equally effective techniques, do the one with the least chance of going wrong if you mess up.

 

[Cyrain]

thinks about making a long writeup.

Currently at a fest though. I'll get back to you on that.

Also, what problems are you generally having with the characters?

Well as far as falco is concerned, I don't even really know what my problems are yet. I'm practicing vs. tope with my falco tomorrow for some good Sheik exposure. Marth has always been a problem for me with Fox, though. I honestly couldn't tell you why....And it's not a big deal since there are so few marth players around, but I've never felt super confident in it. I think the main thing is that my approach gets punished by Marth players WAY too easily when I'm using Fox. As far as falco, I don't have much good Marth practice besides playing Azen at two fests lately. I was beating him like 2 stock pretty frequently and feeling pretty confident about it, but he's no M2K, so I dunno. Just looking for general ideas to implement into my Falco's game since I know very little about his match up theory. Once I go to a major, we'll see what happens. Maybe I'll do fine, maybe I'll get ***** by people that my fox could easily handle. I'll know soon enough =P

 

[Deleted member]

This is almost undoubtedly the wrong forum for this question, but do you guys know why, when M2K Shino stalls, he DIs his up-b out to sweetspot from approximately a 45 degree angle before doing the standard vertical sweetspot for all subsequent up-bs?

marth killer FF edge hog? if you go out, you can't hit shields with the poof.

 

[JPOBS]

well then, can u please elaborate for us on how to effectively stop the shino stall 100% of the time?

take the ledge.

idk what jman was doing or why he didnt just steal the edge. Amsah may or may not have SD'd as a result but jman played it like he'd never seen a shino stall before.

 

[Lightsyde]

To **** Darksyde all you need is sloppy shino stalls

Oh yeah, no idea how to beat that. I just let my character stand there STARSTRUCK from this UNBELIEVABLY hard to overcome tactic.

You do realize you're talking about something from 5 months ago, right? That is practically forever when it comes to learning/overcoming gimmicks. I haven't had difficulty dealing with shino stalls since I learned what to do that weekend.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

Oh yeah, no idea how to beat that. I just let my character stand there STARSTRUCK from this UNBELIEVABLY hard to overcome tactic.

You do realize you're talking about something from 5 months ago, right? That is practically forever when it comes to learning/overcoming gimmicks. I haven't had difficulty dealing with shino stalls since I learned what to do that weekend.

Dash dance -> find timing -> shine turn around STEALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

The sad thing is whenever I try that I get smoked

=(

 

[Teczer0]

take the ledge.

idk what jman was doing or why he didnt just steal the edge. Amsah may or may not have SD'd as a result but jman played it like he'd never seen a shino stall before.

Jman did know about stealing the edge while he was playing vs Amsah, its just he was too scared and put waaaaay too much emphasis on trying to camp him out.

He didn't do it because in his mind he'd be approaching or something like that.

 

[Lightsyde]

Dash dance -> find timing -> shine turn around STEALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

The sad thing is whenever I try that I get smoked

=(

Falco is too slow to do it in a safe-ish fashion. Seems like the Sheik always has time to react to Falco trying to steal the edge, unlike against Fox, where Fox is soo much faster than Falco that it's eaaaaasy to get a quick steal.

 

[unknown522]

Falco is definitely not too slow. I steal the ledge from sheiks all the time when they try that crap. As long as I'm not bowser, then I can always do it. So anyone else can too!

Besides, you can stand outside the vanish's range and then react to whether they get up, or continue to shino-stall.

Well as far as falco is concerned, I don't even really know what my problems are yet. I'm practicing vs. tope with my falco tomorrow for some good Sheik exposure. Marth has always been a problem for me with Fox, though. I honestly couldn't tell you why....And it's not a big deal since there are so few marth players around, but I've never felt super confident in it. I think the main thing is that my approach gets punished by Marth players WAY too easily when I'm using Fox. As far as falco, I don't have much good Marth practice besides playing Azen at two fests lately. I was beating him like 2 stock pretty frequently and feeling pretty confident about it, but he's no M2K, so I dunno. Just looking for general ideas to implement into my Falco's game since I know very little about his match up theory. Once I go to a major, we'll see what happens. Maybe I'll do fine, maybe I'll get ***** by people that my fox could easily handle. I'll know soon enough =P

Ah, I understand. I'm not too great vs marth with falco either, but my vs sheik game is pretty good.

Vs marth, I just have a good combo game most of the time, and try to stuff his approach with lasers then poke at him slightly outside his range

 

[JPOBS]

yea falco can def steal the ledge.

 

[Vaccine]

could someone shed some light on what some of the advantages/disadvantages of nairing out out of shield vs dairing out of shield r?

 

[~Tac~]

I'm not a master of Falco yet, but a couple aren't too hard to share.

Nairing out of shield obviously has range over Dair, less reward but a lot safer OoS. Especially if retreated. I'm not so sure on all of it's uses quite yet myself.

Dairing out of shield has high risk, high reward OoS. I've only seen it applied to "good" use when punishing someone's attack lag on your shield. Ex. Falcon goes for Gentleman's Knee on shield (not sure why he would), but as soon as the knee would hit shield, Dair OoS would wreck them. Then it begins.
-If you fail, however, you're going to get grabbed in most cases. Or hardcore setup for ****.

If I'm missing anything, feel free to correct/add guise.

 

[W.A.S.T.E.]

I don't have particularly much experience, but I like Nair OoS for high percents. Depending on stage positioning and % value, a successful Nair will send the other character off stage and set-up for a potential edgeguard.

 

[Kason Birdman]

shine nair OoS.



EVERY TIME.

 

[Jake13]

Shine nair oos vs shine bair oos

I feel if you can connect the bair everytime the nair is useless, so underpowered in comparison.

Opinions?

 

[Dark Hart]

What if they DI the shine?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

why would you nair shine when you can bair shine?

 

[ChivalRuse]

Bair shield stun is gdlk.

 

[Kason Birdman]

shine nair over shine bair because shine nair is sooooo ugly and gross. when you use it it throws off your opponent because it's so disgusting.

 

[Bones0]

Bair OOS for spacing

Dair OOS for punishing on the ground

Shine OOS for punishing in the air

 

[Walt]

I kinda wish it was possible to utilt OoS. and by kinda I mean I wish it was possible when I play spacies but not when I play falcon.

 

[Winston]

What if they DI the shine?

Won't the shine bair connect anyways if you do it fast enough? Though it might not send them the direction you want it to.