PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Teczer0]

Pertty nice tier list thar Mogwai.

Just curious, what makes you believe Falco > Fox?

Its so funny how my pre-Armada tier list was and now that Armada unlocked a lot of her potential I think she's really good now too.

 

[unknown522]

Haha legit bro. Drumstick is too good.

word. I play tiptup, but I need to get used to a faster character.

 

[Mogwai]

Pertty nice tier list thar Mogwai.

Just curious, what makes you believe Falco > Fox?

Its so funny how my pre-Armada tier list was and now that Armada unlocked a lot of her potential I think she's really good now too.

I'm just gonna make a thread about it with some explanations, but the reasons for Falco > Fox are:

1. Falco has no matchups that should be worse than even (I think he currently loses to Jiggs, but I think he's really crippled in the match because people have refused to play him at it for so long)

2. The majority of the field nowadays are spacies and I think that Falco matches up with spacies better than the rest of the cast. Fox can have better rounded matchups all he wants, he still needs to be able to get through X amount of Falco players at every tourney and Falco wins that matchup (albeit by a small margin).

3. I believe Falco's margin for error is larger than Fox's, which makes him easier to succeed with in a tournament setting because you don't have to be as on point for as long.

4. I believe Falco dictates match pace better than Fox and more universally than Fox (I believe he dictates the pace of all matchups), which again helps in tournies a bunch since you get to take breathers when you need to mid-match.

 

[Scidadle]

Shutup PP you aren't good.

Just kidding you are

<3

But seriously come to FL

 

[JPOBS]

Is there anything i can do to escape Peachs Chains grab? it honestly feel hopeless everytime i get grabbed at around 40ish. I get chaingrabbed and then nair'd and edgeguarded.

i swear its worst than marths, atleast marth there little tricks you can do but peach just destorys me with grabs :/

 

[SPAWN]

Falco gets ***** by chaingrabs from Peach.

 

[Rubyiris]

Tricks to not get chaingrabbed: Ban FD.

 

[JPOBS]

meh, banning FD isnt really that much of an answer, you still have to put up with semi chain grabs, then when you DI towards the platform, they just wait for your tech/no tech and FJ Nair/Fair whatever you do, then you're offstage and get ***** more.

plus FD has its upsides

im just wondering if theres cool tricks i can do to escape that i somehow havent heard of yet or if the CG is just broken like that.

 

[SPAWN]

That works also. Peach can still cg, but her options for covering platforms are extremely limited I feel.

Basically there's no way to escape the cg until like one hundred something on FD. If you're at like 40, just get to the edge and then at least you have a better shot at not dying. Don't play in the middle of the stage.

 

[Scidadle]

She can jump up and nair.

Or if you don't tech it she can waveland to down smash. Maybe?

 

[SPAWN]

Landing on a platform and getting naired, is much better than getting cg'd and then dying.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Ummmmm, good Peaches (like VaNz) will only nair you on the platform at high percents. At low percents, she'll probably waveland onto the platform and dsmash or tech chase you from below with uair -> follow up.

 

[JPOBS]

ya, landing on a platform vs peach isnt really all that great.

sure its better than garunteed deatth but its pretty much negligible considering whatever she does will probably knock you off anyway.

meh, i guess theres no easy solution to this dumb *****

 

[SPAWN]

Good Peaches (like Cort) will get you onto the platform and not **** you too bad as long as you don't do something stupid.

 

[Rubyiris]

banning fd at least gets rid of stupid, guaranteed 30% to death grabs. =x

 

[Niko45]

I would focus more on not getting grabbed by her since it should be pretty difficult for peach to grab falco in general.

Like are you getting caught fsmashing her shield? Missing L cancels during shield pressure? Is the peach just timing your shield pressure and you should stop doing it?

 

[ChivalRuse]

Good Peaches (like Cort) will get you onto the platform and not **** you too bad as long as you don't do something stupid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsEWIfGlKqU#t=1m33s

 

[Rubyiris]

which makes platformed stages better choices for falco, since he's a more mobile character.

 

[SPAWN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsEWIfGlKqU#t=1m33s

G money ****ed up by not sd'ing the dsmash away and then landing on the stage afterwards. There's plenty of things you can do. I didn't say you could get out of it immediately I'm just trying to illustrate that eventually you'll get out of it unless you do something stupid (which G did).

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

ima page behind =D

 

[JPOBS]

I would focus more on not getting grabbed by her since it should be pretty difficult for peach to grab falco in general.

Like are you getting caught fsmashing her shield? Missing L cancels during shield pressure? Is the peach just timing your shield pressure and you should stop doing it?

i dont fsmash or miss l-cancels in shield pressure, and once i get sheild pressure going, i rarely get grabbed/hit out of it.

the 2 biggest times i find myself gettign grabbed are:
1) i do approaching Dairs to beat expected CC, but start the dair early and instea dof CC she sheilds, and hit the high part of her sheild and get grabbed for it then ****ed up. This is one thing about my game i need to change and focus on adjusting somehow, i just dont play nearly enough peachs to have this hammered in yet

2) FC anything -> jab -> grab or just FC aerial->grab gets me sometimes. Granted this happens less often and i tend to buffer rolls out or somehting but it happens every now and then, not really a big issue though.

anyway, yea, i know i should just not be getting grabbed but it happens and i was hoping there was something i could do but hope seems lost.

edit:lol g$ got wrecked

 

[choknater]

 

[ViciousEnd]

Oh my goodness. Best picture ever.

 

[SPAWN]

2) FC anything -> jab -> grab or just FC aerial->grab gets me sometimes. Granted this happens less often and i tend to buffer rolls out or somehting but it happens every now and then, not really a big issue though.

If they FC fair to grab, I'm pretty sure they have the frame advantage and you're going to get grabbed. So if you see that ***** start that fair, get the **** outta there somehow.

If she does any other aerial to slap, just hold down, shield, and keep mashing the a button because you'll either grab her after the first slap or the second one. Whatever you do, don't do this after a FC>dsmash. Then you'll take 60 damage and die.


Also, I should've clarified about the platform stuff. Any character in the game (if not any, then the ones that matter) can pretty much hit you no matter what if you get on a platform so long as they don't mess up their reaction (the reaction window is pretty big). So, what you have to do, is do the smartest option for trying not to get hit, and then doing anther smart option since you predict that you're going to get hit again.

Hope this helps.

 

[X1-12]

I thought peach beat falco??? like 60-40

 

[SPAWN]

She beats him. I'm just trying to give advice on how to do better vs her. It is a very tough matchup. I have to play extremely laser campy vs her otherwise I get destroyed.

 

[Mogwai]

Falco peach is even, you just need to not play like a ******.

 

[SPAWN]

What do you mean play like a ******? Just laser a bunch?

 

[Mogwai]

laser and platform camp all match. Ban FD. L2combo her. bair a lot.

 

[SPAWN]

Sounds.... horrible.

Sounds very unfun.

 

[JPOBS]

i dont think peach beats him, i think its even or slightly in his favor.
combo'ing her is easy
his biggest weakness is that on most stages falco has a huge problem killing her.

how do you platform camp vs a UpB that will eat through everything you do and has no lag on landing?

 

[Mogwai]

jump above it and dair the **** out of her when she lands on the platform?

I dunno, I honestly have never had an issue with Peach UpBing to break platform camping.

 

[JPOBS]

i dunno, its kind hard to see coming cuz its pretty quick , plus, if you're gonna be platform camping, i assume you mean you sit there throwing out dairs to prevent her from coming up freely, in which case she literally jsut waits on you to do the dair, and then eats it with upB.

another problem is she doesnt have to land on the platform she can parasail out back to the ground...

unless im misunderstanding what you mean by platform camp. but when i think platform camp, i think of the vs jiggs version where she literally cant get up there cuz of her lack of upwards priority, but the same thing isnt quite as good vs peach from my experience.

 

[Mogwai]

Peach moves upwardly so slowly that you don't need to be hyperactive about throwing out dairs... you can just sort sit there on the platform and react to what she does.

 

[I.B]

Falco's ability to restrict movement + Peach's bad movement game + Peach's limited shield game =

ggs

I don't think Falco ***** her or anything, but it's definitely not in her favor.

 

[ArcNatural]

Falco's ability to restrict movement isn't that good against Peach. That specific float distance helps Peach in moving around. Peach also has very good punishes against Falco. Especially since his recovery is so poor she doesn't need to hit him that much.

I actually think this matchup is becoming even.

 

[unknown522]

peach has advantage for sure.

She can float right in between falco's immediate laser heights, then being safe on his shield coming down to that is really good. GC on some stages is good as well (DL, FD, and FoD sometimes). D-smash is gay and gimps falco pretty easily, plus her amazing and simple edgeguards on falco. D-smash hitting falco multiple times at low percents is gay, with potential tech chase setup. She also has beastly priority on falco (FALCO!!!).

Falco's side of the matchup, is that he may be able to stuff her out of her float approach, if he can avoid trading/getting out-prioritized. His lasering is good for pressuring her when she's on the ground at a distance, otherwise he will just get dash-attacked by the ***** and pressured himself. He has decent combos at low percent, but then he sometimes has trouble getting kills at higher percents, until he can kill her with a b-air (unless he somehow lands a d-tilt or f-smash). He can also edgeguard peach really well if she is low enough for you to bring her down with lasers, but sometimes it's really impossible to get an edgeguard when she's knocked off the stage. Also, falco's d-air -> f-smash tech chase is gay. Falco can also get some n-air -> d-air kills at mid-high percent.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

matchup's even IMO

I go falco vs peach, mostly because sh shine ***** her if she trys to cc and if you don't play like a ****** (by a ****** I mean try to combo her) then you can just lazer her out of her float and fthrow her till she's dead

 

[Shaeman111]

even?! are you kidding me?!
55/45 falco's favor for sure. treat it like falco vs marth when it comes to camping, like spacing and lasers.
don't get grabbed... and dont get downsmashed. simple stuff.
edgeguarding can suck vs peach, but so can marth's.
so.. really i see it almost no different. cc doesnt matter when you have shine and lasers. and bair/nair spacing.

 

[Rubyiris]

dsmash isn't even that fantastic against falco if you don't DI like a ******. fair is the real problem with peach.

but yeah, matchup is either even or in falco's favor. Falco is better on CP stages, just auto-ban fd so you don't get grabbed and chain grabbed to death at 30%. You might want to practice fox or falco on brinstar if peach tries to take you there.

if peach takes you to dreamland, just platform camp, but be ready for a 5+ minute game as you're not going to kill her until around 150% on average with bair or dtilt.

peach does surprisingly well against falco on battlefield though. the edges restrict his recovery options, making gimping even easier, and the platforms aren't 9000 feat in the air like dreamland, so platform camping is less effective.

fod is problematic if you're inexperienced, but in falcos favor if you're experienced.

@shaeman: if she dis your dair away and crouches, shine will miss, just as an fyi, which means she gets a free anything on you. Just be mindful of this.