PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[DaAnimeKidTooch]

awesome thread,i have been looking for some in-depth falco match-ups

 

[X1-12]

noob question, I normally go to marth vs peach but i'm trying out the falco match-up.. Do you camp on the top platform or the side ones?

 

[unknown522]

^ either one.

I'd like to know when I could have gotten in on him. LMK when you can. =]

But yeah. all fthrows were failed uthrows, just an fyi.

alright, I promise right after I finish reading the bleach manga chapter on this slow *** laptop, I will give you the times.

edit:

game 1:

- 3:57, you landed right behind him and could've shined/u-tilt. He also did a SH f-air while you ran under him. You could've DD into a n-air -> shine. He also hit you with a dash attack right after and got the bad hit. You could've hit him with something, even though you missed the shine (covering up mistakes).

- for the next 10 seconds, you get behind him twice I think (maybe 3), but you tried to grab, though you could've shined him.

- 4:27. you could've b-air'd when he pushed you off the platform with n-air.

- after the SD and you guys were running around, you gave up a good position by going onto the platform. You should be trying to keep him from getting on the ground.

- 5:26, you could've shined oos and hit his head. He also whiffed an f-tilt after. You could've lasered for positional advantage, or ran in on him.

- 5:35, when tai did the n-air, you should've been shooting lasers to force your way in. He missed another f-tilt after, but you missed the laser. He dashed away. You should've chased him, instead of standing at the edge. You almost got trapped.

- 6:27, he did a FH f-air after he respawned. You could've ran up to him with something to at least put pressure. Marth sucks at close range fighting.

- 6:30, he u-tilted your shield at an incredibly close range. You could've grabbed, or did
a shine oos.

Also, you need to do more double shine and shine -> grab on tai's shield.


There's not much to say for game 2. That guy was getting *****. The first combo was sex. You also need to stop getting shield grbbed near the edge. Do lower aerials and don't miss L-cancels. That's the most important time not to miss.

 

[Rubyiris]

Whenever I try to do lower aerials my opponents recognize this and shield grab me before the attack comes out.

How do I deal with this?

 

[JPOBS]

You have to remeber that all forms of falco sheild pressure can be grabbed so you have to stay on point and keep mixing it up. If you're opponents are grabbing you out of late aerials consistently, try retreaing nairs to bait the grab and punish, or cross up throughtheir sheild with bair and continue pressure fro mthe back.

theres really nothing you can do other just play with more variance.

Also, i find for late aerials it helps if you remeber to FF right at the peak, goign up you're pretty much open but if you FF perfectly it limits their ability to have a chance to grab you.

also i dont know if this is true and probably osunds stupid but in my experience i've also found that falco literally jumps right over a lot of characters grab boxes so depending on who they are i pretty much only late aerial because i feel like their grabs are too low or somthing i dunno mogwai confirm/deny?

 

[Rubyiris]

You have to remeber that all forms of falco sheild pressure can be grabbed so you have to stay on point and keep mixing it up. If you're opponents are grabbing you out of late aerials consistently, try retreaing nairs to bait the grab and punish, or cross up throughtheir sheild with bair and continue pressure fro mthe back.

theres really nothing you can do other just play with more variance.

Also, i find for late aerials it helps if you remeber to FF right at the peak, goign up you're pretty much open but if you FF perfectly it limits their ability to have a chance to grab you.

also i dont know if this is true and probably osunds stupid but in my experience i've also found that falco literally jumps right over a lot of characters grab boxes so depending on who they are i pretty much only late aerial because i feel like their grabs are too low or somthing i dunno mogwai confirm/deny?

You can't do a retreating nair if the've already grabbed you.

To explain, I'll approach for a late nair for example. my opponents played with forward/axe//v3ctorman/bwill (really good old falco who used to play) on a regular basis, so they recognize when someone goes for a late aerial and immediately grab.

 

[JPOBS]

im not sure i get what you're saying

if you do the retreating nair they shouldnt even be able to grab you regardless because the nair comes out immediately on a retreating nair.
this is probably confusing cuz i know the topic is late aerials being punished and i suggested retreating nair, but with the retreating nair, you do it ASAP out of shine and if they try to grab you they just get hit. they shouldnt be grabbing you in between the shien and th nair on this particular situation.

 

[X1-12]

Whenever I try to do lower aerials my opponents recognize this and shield grab me before the attack comes out.

How do I deal with this?

Don't always do late aerials?

 

[JPOBS]

also, you can do double shines.

not like the frame perfect shiawia double shines, but you can do shine-> sh -> wait for just the moment when you think/know they are going to try to grab you out of a would be late aerial, and shine combo them to death.

 

[ViciousEnd]

Or come in with nair. It covers the lower approach vectors. You can hit lower on the shield and still have a hitbox out when they would try to grab you. I usually go into shielding opponents with nairs, and switch to dairs or jc grab if they sit in their shield.

 

[Mogwai]

noob question, I normally go to marth vs peach but i'm trying out the falco match-up.. Do you camp on the top platform or the side ones?

top is preferable, but either will work.

 

[JPOBS]

mogwai do you know if falco jumps over some characters grab hitbox when doing late aerials?

 

[Mogwai]

you mean without a shine? Also, I don't know, but I feel like I get away with aerial -> shine -> full hop a lot.

 

[Doomblaze]

You can't do a retreating nair if the've already grabbed you.

To explain, I'll approach for a late nair for example. my opponents played with forward/axe//v3ctorman/bwill (really good old falco who used to play) on a regular basis, so they recognize when someone goes for a late aerial and immediately grab.

You shffl a nair into their shield then you shine and right after the shine you do a retreating nair instead of hanging in the air and trying to hit their shield again. That way they wont be able to grab you. Against opponents who are used to late aerials, you're going to get grabbed if you try to pressure their shield the same way more than once, so mixups are key.

@JPOBS: I'm fairly sure that any character you would play against in tourney can grab you when you late aerial. Most characters grab boxes go above them and some go behind them too.

 

[JPOBS]

na mogwai i meant with the traditional late aerial -> shine pressure.

like you shine the sheild, and short hop out, and lately i've noticed that as im going up/at the peak of my jump sometimes my opponent tries to grab me and it whiffs while im still in the air and i get a free combo.

and this happens with marth of all people :/

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Don't always do late aerials?

this pretty much

or if your opponent is reacting to the lack of an aerial as soon as you shorthop, you can just bait the grab with a double jump and come down with whatever you like. If you do that a couple of times they should be more conservative about then they decide to grab you.

 

[Dr Peepee]

You can't do a retreating nair if the've already grabbed you.

To explain, I'll approach for a late nair for example. my opponents played with forward/axe//v3ctorman/bwill (really good old falco who used to play) on a regular basis, so they recognize when someone goes for a late aerial and immediately grab.

Doing a later laser could mess with them too.

Just try to find ways to keep yourself from doing delayed aerials every so often so that people aren't so sure of grabbing when you approach.

 

[MacD]

PEEPEE!!!!!! why is falco so broken??? i swear it's like i start at 70% every match against him because of his BROKEN and EASY combos!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what do i do?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Don't get hit.

Also, you're lucky they aren't death combos.

 

[MacD]

oohhhhh, that's an interesting theory... i'll have to look into it and practice

also tell that to yoshi story

 

[Dr Peepee]

LOL MacD you're so silly.

 

[MacD]

oh did you hear, GAMME's date might get moved, if so i'm sooooooo going

also i need to find a partner for apex cause apparently people are already doing that, idk how though

 

[KirbyKaze]

noob question, I normally go to marth vs peach but i'm trying out the falco match-up.. Do you camp on the top platform or the side ones?

Do this against Peach

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JipfQJuYNfs

 

[ChivalRuse]

Also, you're lucky they aren't death combos.

also tell that to yoshi story

Poor macd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tQL1-f7oZM#t=0m17s

 

[Rubyiris]

Wow so many posts of people not understanding what I'm saying.

PEOPLE. I AM BEING GRABBED BEFORE THE AERIAL COMES OUT. I AM APPROACHING WITH A LATE AERIAL, THEY RECOGNIZE THIS AND GRAB. I AM NOT GOING AERIAL > SHINE > LATE AERIAL TO THEIR SHIELD. I AM GOING JUMP > DELAYED NAIR TO HIT LOWER ON THEIR SHIELD AND THEY ARE GRABBING ME ON REACTION. IT IS NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND, ****.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I don't remember if I answered this correctly, but I'd do more cross-ups and slightly delayed SHL approaches to keep them thinking about grabbing that approach.

You could also just use aerials to approach less often so that they become less accustomed to seeing you aerial and wouldn't be as ready to react to it.

Also, Pound 4 losers bracket matches going up.

What should Falco do in 2v1s? That last match of LFs......

 

[JPOBS]

laser grab ***** people who are just waiting on the late aerial

 

[Dr Peepee]

Should I be approaching or should my partner(let's just say Fox, but in general would be nice too)?

 

[JPOBS]

in teams?

i dunno in teams i play fox and, i team with a jiggs/ganon/marth/fox so im almost always te aggresive one so i cant reallly say what works best as falco.

 

[MacD]

Do this against Peach

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JipfQJuYNfs

see, 0-70 combos

Poor macd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tQL1-f7oZM#t=0m17s

that's when i sucked

i would rebut with my ****** him... but it's only his fox so meh

EDIT: there is this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec5h6BAUJ2A first stock *****es!!!!!!

Should I be approaching or should my partner(let's just say Fox, but in general would be nice too)?

those matches are up?? well if your partner is me, let me approach eh eh, when are we going to show them what the DADS can do

 

[Dr Peepee]

What were the letters I added onto DADS?

Yeah the matches are going up now. vs SS/DR and Darc/Hax are already up.

And lol letting Peach approach? Is that actually a good idea?

 

[MacD]

oh man... i can't remember

that's cool, i've been waiting for those FOREVER, now idk if i care anymore hahaha

that's what i do in teams, i go running in like a crazy ***** and let zhu punish afterwards, works well when that ***** is actually trying and not being a stupid *** *****. but i'm naturally agressive and approach lots in singles

but do you mean in a 2 v 1 or like in teams in general, cause in a 2 v 1, if we are both low percent, we each take a side and kinda just work till we add lots of damage or zhu will punish if i ever get like usmashed or grabbed, but that is just cause zhu's fox is so so and he isn't confident approaching spacies idk

 

[Dr Peepee]

I meant just 2v1.

I guess I just need to be more patient then and stop running around. Too hyped lol.

 

[MacD]

hahah, well i guess it just depends, 2 on 1 i like to have someone on each side of them, it gives them less options, but of course the exceptions of one person being at high percent

i guess you could try trapping them in a corner with lasers, then when you go in, they have less options cause your teamate (fox) should be close behind you and since he is fast/jumps high, they can't do much

then again, this is all coming from me being peach, idk how 2 spacies work, you guys can jump like super duper high and one of you is super duper fast, lol

 

[Dr Peepee]

I guess it's just a circumstance thing.

 

[MacD]

lol yea basically, opponent+your percents+stage+lots of stuff=stratigy

you got this!!!!!

also i suck at this game besides peach stuff so my knowledge is all in theory from the little i know/littler that i've seen lol

 

[KikoMePlease]

Do you have any general tips for fighting Peach?

 

[DippnDots]

How do I beat drephen? So far what i've got is, don't get grabbed, if he starts ledge stalling retreat to the center of the stage and pew pew, and don't get knocked off the stage.

That being said, how the **** do I beat drephen and get my psp?

 

[Dr Peepee]

@Peach: Laser when she's grounded to keep her grounded, don't nair when she's not shielding/at low %, Bair a lot, hit Peach with a move as she FCs(if you see it coming), try to avoid shielding when possible.

@Drephen: Lol, ummm......I'd have to see him fight Falco before I could tell you to bear what he does. He might have different counters to stuff than what other Sheiks do.

 

[unknown522]

Wow so many posts of people not understanding what I'm saying.

PEOPLE. I AM BEING GRABBED BEFORE THE AERIAL COMES OUT. I AM APPROACHING WITH A LATE AERIAL, THEY RECOGNIZE THIS AND GRAB. I AM NOT GOING AERIAL > SHINE > LATE AERIAL TO THEIR SHIELD. I AM GOING JUMP > DELAYED NAIR TO HIT LOWER ON THEIR SHIELD AND THEY ARE GRABBING ME ON REACTION. IT IS NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND, ****.

if it keeps happening, then do earlier aerials. Aerials come out faster than grab, so one of 3 things will happen:

- they grab early if they think you're gonna do a low aerial and get you
- shield if they think you're going to do an earlier aerial
- if they see that you're doing a late aerial after you've already jumped, they do an action and get hit.

There's no possible way that they will be able to switch in between when you're jumping to grab you out of a low aerial...they'll get hit first. They have to be calling your late aerial way ahead of time, if they're grabbing you.

Should I be approaching or should my partner(let's just say Fox, but in general would be nice too)?

You can do either. They're both so good at holding their own. I usually let raynex be the aggressor, because he likes to rush in so much. If I see that he's losing the fight, then I tell him to get back and let me handle it (especially vs sheik, or jiggs). Also, if I see him on the ground, then I tend to shoot lasers over his head to try to distract the opponent, especially if they are taller (like marth and peach). You could also attack from above, because there's so much chaos going on. Just space around your teammate so that you don't **** each other.