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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
bolt.
Smash Ace
I agree 100% with the second part of this post.
Kason Birdman
Smash Champion
ya see.. up until recently I could not play very well with any colour that was not blue..
It doesn't make sense.. but I donno it's true.
It doesn't make sense.. but I donno it's true.
Tirno
Smash Journeyman
I ate catfish for the first time yesterday. Will I get super Falco powers now? Or is North Carolinian to catfish as Saiyan is to moonlight? What's a SoCal-born, Texas-raised Falco player to do...
Redact
Professional Nice Guy
In aus we have a persona behind each colour
Red is the peoples champion falco, standing up against the oppressive purple boots fox.
Blue falco is the cool falco, he doesn't give a damn.
Default falco just seems angrier to me.
Green falco is the loser falco, who has no friends.
Red is the peoples champion falco, standing up against the oppressive purple boots fox.
Blue falco is the cool falco, he doesn't give a damn.
Default falco just seems angrier to me.
Green falco is the loser falco, who has no friends.
KILLA.FOR.CASH.
Smash Champion
red fox is definately aggro. red is a good color to play as in general.
i like to think of it as "my suit is stained red from the blood of my enemies"
also when I play red marth it makes me feel ken-like and i play much better
i like to think of it as "my suit is stained red from the blood of my enemies"
also when I play red marth it makes me feel ken-like and i play much better
King Funk
Int. Croc. Alligator
Hmmm...
I counterpicked Rainbow Cruise vs a Sheik yesterday and got completely *****. I guess I should stop automatically assuming a stage is good for me and learn to play on it beforehand. Can you guys give me tips on how I can use that stage or is there a guide somewhere already about it?
I counterpicked Rainbow Cruise vs a Sheik yesterday and got completely *****. I guess I should stop automatically assuming a stage is good for me and learn to play on it beforehand. Can you guys give me tips on how I can use that stage or is there a guide somewhere already about it?
you can move around better so whenever you feel you're not in the better position move to another platform to reset position/gain advantage (especially in the middle part with the infinite platforms)
you still have to be careful that Sheik doesnt catch you especially at the part at the top (easy techchases)
or at the start (easy edgeguards once your off-ship)
you still have to be careful that Sheik doesnt catch you especially at the part at the top (easy techchases)
or at the start (easy edgeguards once your off-ship)
unknown522
Some guy
red falco sucks.
King Funk
Int. Croc. Alligator
I like Red Falco. =(
Falco doesn't auto-win on RC like Fox kinda-sorta does vs most characters LOL so yeah getting by on stage merit is impossible for Falco. Sheik also has big moves that stick up like Bair so its not like she can't still control space from below you(which means Dair camping is bad vs Sheik and that's typically a redeeming factor on this stage).
On the boat, you want to try and get a combo in the middle part because you can kill Sheik off the side easily and the platforms help KO off the top if sheik actually DIs over there lol. You have to be extra careful not to get carried away though because it doesn't take much for Sheik to get you offstage and dead here, ESPECIALLY on the right side lol it's so bad.
Then the carpet ride you just have to try various things. Dair camping won't work and lasers aren't that effective with so many horizontal positions possible. It may be better to even wait that part out which is what I kinda do sometimes if Sheik is walling me well or has momentum going into this area. If you approach, do it on your terms and not when Sheik is just super walling/waiting for you by the edge of a carpet or something obvious lol.
The pendulum part is tricky because you can get killed stupidly or get stupid kills on Sheik here because the ground could just move away lol. I find that I get a lot of good kills/hits here though so I suggest trying to accomplish something in this area if you feel up to it.
Then the last part it's just better to control the right side so they have to approach/you're below them so it's harder to hit you haha.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
If I were you and trying to describe your style, I would definitely have a hard time putting it into words lol.
I've halfway tried to describe my style to myself before
I didn't really get very far XD
@Thread: I plan on making another big post in you today.
I didn't really get very far XD
@Thread: I plan on making another big post in you today.
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
Can't wait for this big post =P
Moooose
Smash Champion
so i know you guys were talking about countering lhdl a while ago. yesterday i was running towards a falco on the ledge when he was about to laser. i managed to powershield from point blank distance and then jump/nair him LOL. works like a charm
DJRome
Smash Hero
there's literally 100 things you can do to beat it and its variations
Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
big post big post
Learning Other Characters
Alright, so I decided to split with M2K at the NC tournament, G6, we both attended yesterday. While I learned a personal lesson about splitting in there too, that's not what this post is about lol.
This split did, however, allow for me to test out my Fox and Marth in tournament(Fox netted me a win in WFs as well, which I was very happy about =D). But before I get to why trying these other characters out a lot is so important, I want to talk about how I FELT during the matches.
I had never in my smash life played non-Falco characters in a somewhat big tournament ever. Going into things, I felt somewhat uneasy about my performance but I knew I stepped up to the plate when it came to crunch time so long as I didn't get nervous so I felt like I could handle M2K and give a good set going into WFs. I won game 1 vs his sheik on Dreamland(he suggested we randomed and I picked fox on a double blind if you guys are wondering about any of that lol). Then he ***** me with Marth on.....FoD? 3 stock high percent LOL. I felt like I could do better(because I was getting super nervous and my hands were a little shaky LOL but I'll explain why I think that happened in a bit) but I didn't let it phase me since it was my CP and I won game 1. I took him to RC LOL(you guys would all hate me if I was a Fox main =p) and we Fox dittoed and I barrrely won with a clutch comeback on the boat when I was at high % last stock and he was fresh on his last one. I also blame nerves for being behind in the first place but whatever lol. Then he went Marth on YS and 3 stocked me again. XD I blame nerves once more but statistics obviously point to him beating me even if I wasn't nervous haha. Game 5 I take him to KJ64(****), and he decides to go Sheik. My nerves are getting more under control at this point as I was coming off another win and his own personal gameplay issues were hitting him hard here, as he did a couple Marth maneuvers that got him *****/hit by me lol. This in turn flustered him and I did my best to capitalize. I don't remember how much I won by that match but I think it was a solid 2 stock. I helped him realize he needed all Marth to win though so you M2K Marth fanboys can thank me for that =D.
That explains Grand Finals by the way LOL. I picked Marth set 1 and I took a game off of him in dittos. Then he went Sheik on Stadium until I lost hahaha. Nerves didn't get me too badly because once I started getting ***** I got salty and decided I wanted to **** him badly LOL. Still, M2K knows Marth really well and I was proud to take a game off of him =). Anyway, second set I went back to Fox to see if I could improve on my vs Marth game because I'd never played that matchup vs a good Marth ever and wanted to see how much I could learn/how well I could do with just one set. I will say this about Fox vs Marth: If you drop opportunities/followups vs a good Marth then you must die. That's pretty much how I felt LOL. I believe that, with more experience/proficiency with Fox, that I could have won those matches I had with M2K, but slight nerves and inexperience were incredibly costly on the scoreboard haha. Also being gimped/death comboed is really not fun lol and I have to learn to shake such things off like I can with Falco. I feel like I took a game off of M2K in this set too but I don't remember how it happened LOL. While I enjoyed the experience I feel like I let a lot of my supporters and friends down to make M2K feel better and for my selfish unnecessary goals. It's not like this will happen again but that doesn't change how people will react this time.
Anyway, I'll now get somewhat more relevant for you guys. My nerves stemmed from the different type of "tournament flow" that I had to establish with Fox/Marth vs Falco. You see, I don't like lasering with Fox at all since those lasers don't stun LOL so I just DD a lot. Plus, I feel like lasering isn't worth disrupting your movement for the minimal damage it inflicts and I can threaten and damage a lot better with reads and punishments from my faster movement. Problem is, with the absence of the familiar lasers I had, I felt uncomfortable just DD'ing. I didn't feel like I could think to myself "okay, I've gotten control and I'm doing this thing(in this case DD'ing but with Falco it'd be lasering), so what's next?" I always felt like I would DD and then try to manipulate my DD to be effective and tricky and just right so I couldn't really focus on M2K. This is huge because without reading M2K's patterns and walls he puts up I couldn't find TRUE holes in them to constantly exploit/condition or pressure out. I found myself getting slapped out of Nairs he baited constantly, and dashing in to grab/shine only to realize that Fox's grab range is far smaller than Sheik's/Marth's and getting pivot grabbed over and over, as well as dash attacked "out of nowhere." Had I conditioned him to do these things and punished them CONSISTENTLY(I did my best to watch him and executed on it somewhat because I tried not to fall into these habits, especially second set of GFs, but it wasn't consistent enough to win obviously), then I would have won handily I feel.
Marth was similar but different. Precision with this character is tight and unreal in importance. There is no cutting corners or getting by with easy kills to me, and if there is an easier kill expect it to be done to you lol. Knowledge with this character of %s and mixups is greater than most I feel, and this may be why M2K excels with him(aside from the experience thing lol). At least his DD and movement felt comfortable and controlled in a tournament environment, but at the cost of squandering more edgeguards and "guaranteed" followups. Marth seems like a lost art right now haha, but I think what I learned from yesterday and will understand better from the videos is that he's far from gone.
DD-based characters seem like a totally different but possibly equal attention divider from lasers. While lasers "control" the field, DD'ing controls a set space and is scarier in some ways from a laser in that a laser can be countered(powershielding/etc) while DD'ing can only be pushed at or baited against. Both require interesting tech skill(careful laser placement and timing vs repetitive but altered timing control stick inputs at the most simplistic level anyway) and it's important to master ways to mix up both in order to utilize them to condition/stall the opponent as you make crucial reads and spacing estimations. I certainly have a greater understanding and appreciation of characters requiring DD'ing/non-lasers to be effective in tournament play, and wouldn't mind discussing such elements of play further with anyone interested.
I think that, once this discussion goes a little while, I will begin to talk about Falco and what I believe his laser game does to change this dynamic, but only once I gauge some responses. For now this is a pretty lengthy read as is haha. =p
Also, M2K said I DD camped him LMFAO. He also said I had the best Fox vs Sheik(as Fox) game he'd ever seen, which made me =D
Enjoy!
PS: New big post will also include what learning other characters will do for you, but I forgot about that and was gonna edit it in until I saw how long this was LOLOL.
Alright, so I decided to split with M2K at the NC tournament, G6, we both attended yesterday. While I learned a personal lesson about splitting in there too, that's not what this post is about lol.
This split did, however, allow for me to test out my Fox and Marth in tournament(Fox netted me a win in WFs as well, which I was very happy about =D). But before I get to why trying these other characters out a lot is so important, I want to talk about how I FELT during the matches.
I had never in my smash life played non-Falco characters in a somewhat big tournament ever. Going into things, I felt somewhat uneasy about my performance but I knew I stepped up to the plate when it came to crunch time so long as I didn't get nervous so I felt like I could handle M2K and give a good set going into WFs. I won game 1 vs his sheik on Dreamland(he suggested we randomed and I picked fox on a double blind if you guys are wondering about any of that lol). Then he ***** me with Marth on.....FoD? 3 stock high percent LOL. I felt like I could do better(because I was getting super nervous and my hands were a little shaky LOL but I'll explain why I think that happened in a bit) but I didn't let it phase me since it was my CP and I won game 1. I took him to RC LOL(you guys would all hate me if I was a Fox main =p) and we Fox dittoed and I barrrely won with a clutch comeback on the boat when I was at high % last stock and he was fresh on his last one. I also blame nerves for being behind in the first place but whatever lol. Then he went Marth on YS and 3 stocked me again. XD I blame nerves once more but statistics obviously point to him beating me even if I wasn't nervous haha. Game 5 I take him to KJ64(****), and he decides to go Sheik. My nerves are getting more under control at this point as I was coming off another win and his own personal gameplay issues were hitting him hard here, as he did a couple Marth maneuvers that got him *****/hit by me lol. This in turn flustered him and I did my best to capitalize. I don't remember how much I won by that match but I think it was a solid 2 stock. I helped him realize he needed all Marth to win though so you M2K Marth fanboys can thank me for that =D.
That explains Grand Finals by the way LOL. I picked Marth set 1 and I took a game off of him in dittos. Then he went Sheik on Stadium until I lost hahaha. Nerves didn't get me too badly because once I started getting ***** I got salty and decided I wanted to **** him badly LOL. Still, M2K knows Marth really well and I was proud to take a game off of him =). Anyway, second set I went back to Fox to see if I could improve on my vs Marth game because I'd never played that matchup vs a good Marth ever and wanted to see how much I could learn/how well I could do with just one set. I will say this about Fox vs Marth: If you drop opportunities/followups vs a good Marth then you must die. That's pretty much how I felt LOL. I believe that, with more experience/proficiency with Fox, that I could have won those matches I had with M2K, but slight nerves and inexperience were incredibly costly on the scoreboard haha. Also being gimped/death comboed is really not fun lol and I have to learn to shake such things off like I can with Falco. I feel like I took a game off of M2K in this set too but I don't remember how it happened LOL. While I enjoyed the experience I feel like I let a lot of my supporters and friends down to make M2K feel better and for my selfish unnecessary goals. It's not like this will happen again but that doesn't change how people will react this time.
Anyway, I'll now get somewhat more relevant for you guys. My nerves stemmed from the different type of "tournament flow" that I had to establish with Fox/Marth vs Falco. You see, I don't like lasering with Fox at all since those lasers don't stun LOL so I just DD a lot. Plus, I feel like lasering isn't worth disrupting your movement for the minimal damage it inflicts and I can threaten and damage a lot better with reads and punishments from my faster movement. Problem is, with the absence of the familiar lasers I had, I felt uncomfortable just DD'ing. I didn't feel like I could think to myself "okay, I've gotten control and I'm doing this thing(in this case DD'ing but with Falco it'd be lasering), so what's next?" I always felt like I would DD and then try to manipulate my DD to be effective and tricky and just right so I couldn't really focus on M2K. This is huge because without reading M2K's patterns and walls he puts up I couldn't find TRUE holes in them to constantly exploit/condition or pressure out. I found myself getting slapped out of Nairs he baited constantly, and dashing in to grab/shine only to realize that Fox's grab range is far smaller than Sheik's/Marth's and getting pivot grabbed over and over, as well as dash attacked "out of nowhere." Had I conditioned him to do these things and punished them CONSISTENTLY(I did my best to watch him and executed on it somewhat because I tried not to fall into these habits, especially second set of GFs, but it wasn't consistent enough to win obviously), then I would have won handily I feel.
Marth was similar but different. Precision with this character is tight and unreal in importance. There is no cutting corners or getting by with easy kills to me, and if there is an easier kill expect it to be done to you lol. Knowledge with this character of %s and mixups is greater than most I feel, and this may be why M2K excels with him(aside from the experience thing lol). At least his DD and movement felt comfortable and controlled in a tournament environment, but at the cost of squandering more edgeguards and "guaranteed" followups. Marth seems like a lost art right now haha, but I think what I learned from yesterday and will understand better from the videos is that he's far from gone.
DD-based characters seem like a totally different but possibly equal attention divider from lasers. While lasers "control" the field, DD'ing controls a set space and is scarier in some ways from a laser in that a laser can be countered(powershielding/etc) while DD'ing can only be pushed at or baited against. Both require interesting tech skill(careful laser placement and timing vs repetitive but altered timing control stick inputs at the most simplistic level anyway) and it's important to master ways to mix up both in order to utilize them to condition/stall the opponent as you make crucial reads and spacing estimations. I certainly have a greater understanding and appreciation of characters requiring DD'ing/non-lasers to be effective in tournament play, and wouldn't mind discussing such elements of play further with anyone interested.
I think that, once this discussion goes a little while, I will begin to talk about Falco and what I believe his laser game does to change this dynamic, but only once I gauge some responses. For now this is a pretty lengthy read as is haha. =p
Also, M2K said I DD camped him LMFAO. He also said I had the best Fox vs Sheik(as Fox) game he'd ever seen, which made me =D
Enjoy!
PS: New big post will also include what learning other characters will do for you, but I forgot about that and was gonna edit it in until I saw how long this was LOLOL.
KILLA.FOR.CASH.
Smash Champion
WTFFFF PEEPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHK:ADISBDHAS
how many marth dittos did you guys do?!
and how did those go!?
ACTUALLY NOWAIT DONT TELL ME , I GOTTA SEE THE VIDS FIRST!!!!
how many marth dittos did you guys do?!
and how did those go!?
ACTUALLY NOWAIT DONT TELL ME , I GOTTA SEE THE VIDS FIRST!!!!
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Ya the inexperienced part of the tournament play with different characters will obviously happen if you don't practice them. Because once the nerves start to get a hold of you then you won't feel comfortable at all to try to punish a mistake done by the opponent, the reactions are slower too. I believe this is simply something else that requires a lot of practice.
Edit: Though it's pretty impressive that you are still able to beat M2k with alternate chars, the hell.. lol.
Edit: Though it's pretty impressive that you are still able to beat M2k with alternate chars, the hell.. lol.
Just do ya thing PP. Write up a 500 word essay if ya gotta, yer fans and followers will support you and all the rest can keep moving.
Congrats on taking a match in marth dittos, that is definitely remarkable. Can't wait for the match vids.
Congrats on taking a match in marth dittos, that is definitely remarkable. Can't wait for the match vids.
DJRome
Smash Hero
lol so kevin, now do u understand the op nature of falco's lasers?
and also see my sheik please
and also see my sheik please
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
I wonder if unknown will be salty that m2k forgot him again (@best fox vs sheik? Idk i thought unknown said he was beating m2k's sheik pretty handily and/or consistently)
Yeah, I'm definitely more focused and understanding now. =)
Not necessarily in the way you suggest LOL <.<
OH, yeah Unknown could possibly have a better Fox vs Sheik game. I wouldn't know because M2K didn't mention that to me and I haven't seen Unknown play vs M2K in that matchup but you never know haha. Maybe M2K will post about it eventually.
D
Deleted member
Guest
"told you so"
booshk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- May 14, 2006
- Messages
- 1,104
thank you. i love u pp
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Blue is the most aesthetically pleasing, but Green has different move animations which helps me space my nairs better for some reason.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,564
the ****? there's only one animation file on the disc for each character
Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
lol rubyiris ruining a perfectly good moment to be a ****** XD
JPOBS
Smash Hero
unknwon def has the best fox vs sheik game in the world.
PP why were you nervous if you had already decided to split? all pressure off at that point no?
PP why were you nervous if you had already decided to split? all pressure off at that point no?
I....don't play for money so wanting to do well and prove myself was something that still bothered me, and I knew M2K wouldn't goof off so it would be a tough challenge.
I don't know I didn't expect it either LOL. =p I got over it though so whatever haha.
May have just been an unfamiliarity thing.
I don't know I didn't expect it either LOL. =p I got over it though so whatever haha.
May have just been an unfamiliarity thing.
Tirno
Smash Journeyman
So I was trying to explain to somebody who asked why people use Falco's mediocre dash-dance nowadays. He didn't really seem satisfied with my explanation, so I was wondering how you guys might answer such a question.
I use Falco's DD because it's a good psychological mixup when people expect you to be shooting lasers and doing an approaching or retreating aerial(among other things) can be threatening in some circumstances.
Also sometimes I feel like I have to do something while trying to get the opponent to do that OOS option I don't want to get hit by lol.
Also sometimes I feel like I have to do something while trying to get the opponent to do that OOS option I don't want to get hit by lol.
tarheeljks
Smash Lord
i agree w/that a lot. being able to change/operate at varying speeds is as important as being able to move quickly, like how change-ups/breakingballs/off-speed pitches work in baseball
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
its a good way to wait. or to... be dashing and then trick someone. you can't DD camp with falco but it's useful in small doses. if your opponent always spot dodges when he's teched and you're dashing towards him (as a lot of new players do), you might have to dash towards him then dash back thend ash in and shine because he won't spot dodge if you don't dash.
or you might run right to trick your opponent into teching left and then dash back left.
or if you just want to confuse someone in shield you can DD a few times
it's just a good way to keep moving & maintain a decent level of space control while you have nothing more aggressive that makes sense. it's also psychological but... figured you didnt need to hear that twice
or you might run right to trick your opponent into teching left and then dash back left.
or if you just want to confuse someone in shield you can DD a few times
it's just a good way to keep moving & maintain a decent level of space control while you have nothing more aggressive that makes sense. it's also psychological but... figured you didnt need to hear that twice
Lightsyde
Smash Champion
I love fast dash dancing so much with every character. I played Falcon as a main before Falco so dash dancing is just part of my play style. It's a good mix up to be shooting just bursts of lasers then dash dancing some, empty short hopping some and then approaching with SH shine wavelands, delayed/spaced aerials and laser grab stuff.
Also, this weekend I was told how frustrating and annoying my FH game is with Falco and that makes me happy.
Also, shoutouts to Druggedfox and SleepyK for Falco ditto'ing with me a lot and being so complimentary/inspirational.
Shoutouts to M2K for showing me how good I am but also showing me how bad I am. The Jason Zimmerman complex.
Also, this weekend I was told how frustrating and annoying my FH game is with Falco and that makes me happy.
Also, shoutouts to Druggedfox and SleepyK for Falco ditto'ing with me a lot and being so complimentary/inspirational.
Shoutouts to M2K for showing me how good I am but also showing me how bad I am. The Jason Zimmerman complex.