Planking is still a problem, how do we fix it?

[salaboB]

It is relevant because people who are religious believe things based on theory (as illegitimate as it may be) rather than on fact. When has planking ever won a big tournament? You are pro-ban for something that has never been proven broken.

Why are there rules against planking if it's not effective enough to matter?

Why haven't any of the top players used it in tournament when they're not likely to win without it? Has it been tried (By someone who knows how to do it properly) and been found to be ineffective?

Why have you not refuted what I actually said but instead resorted to ad hominem attacks on me and ignoring my points in favor of making random ones of your own?

For that matter, when did I say I thought planking should be banned? I couldn't care less either way. I was simply pointing out that a known effective tactic is not being utilized at high levels of play, so somebody involved is not doing everything they can to win. Does that idea bother you? I don't see why it should.

Edit: Did you know adumbrodeus supports things based on theory very strongly? Is he heavily religious, then? Are you going to start responding to his posts that he must be religious and thus doesn't know what he's talking about? You should be careful with your generalizations, I don't think you've got the world pegged as accurately as you believe.

 

[Plairnkk]

Why are there rules against planking if it's not effective enough to matter?

Why haven't any of the top players used it in tournament when they're not likely to win without it? Has it been tried (By someone who knows how to do it properly) and been found to be ineffective?

Why have you not refuted what I actually said but instead resorted to ad hominem attacks on me and ignoring my points in favor of making random ones of your own?

For that matter, when did I say I thought planking should be banned? I couldn't care less either way. I was simply pointing out that a known effective tactic is not being utilized at high levels of play, so somebody involved is not doing everything they can to win. Does that idea bother you? I don't see why it should.

Edit: Did you know adumbrodeus supports things based on theory very strongly? Is he heavily religious, then? You should be careful with your generalizations, I don't think you've got the world pegged as accurately as you believe.

Because people always want to have something to cry about, and MK is what scrubs decide to cling to hating in Brawl. Anything involving MK they will whine about.

Apparently because it's not effective at top level play or it would be happening. Look at the way people play other characters, they don't have honor. There are better ways to play MK.

I didn't refute what you said? I thought I did.
"M2K is a very conservative, safe player. Hanging off the edge where one false button push will end your life is not particularly a -safe- tactic."

Lastly you can refute my theory all you want, but I was right, wasn't I? But I guess again, facts don't matter to you.

 

[salaboB]

Because people always want to have something to cry about, and MK is what scrubs decide to cling to hating in Brawl. Anything involving MK they will whine about.

How convenient, "scrubs need something to cry about" is not an explanation for why planking requires banning. There are some very good players who can beat MK who still support the ban (On planking), how do you explain them? Are they really scrubs in secret?

Apparently because it's not effective at top level play or it would be happening.

"Apparently." Nice, "apparently" you aren't aware of anybody trying it. Still waiting for any of these facts you claim to have that prove me wrong.

I didn't refute what you said? I thought I did.
"M2K is a very conservative, safe player. Hanging off the edge where one false button push will end your life is not particularly a -safe- tactic."

I never said M2K should have planked, I asked why didn't he play "gay". Is planking what he means when he says something is "gay"? I never got that impression from his posts -- he distinctly implied he didn't play a certain way because it would be "gay", not because it would not be "safe".

So no, you didn't refute any of my points. You just replied to them the way you thought I should be asking the question. I'm fine with facts, but you have yet to disprove one of the theories that I'm basing my decisions on. Tell me which theory is incorrect, provide evidence of it, and I'll accept it and restructure my argument as needed (Including abandoning it if it's clearly untenable)

Lastly you can refute my theory all you want, but I was right, wasn't I? But I guess again, facts don't matter to you.

Poorly veiled ad hominem is still ad hominem. You can't disprove any of what I base my points on so you attack me directly? Good job.

 

[stingers]

This games winner is...

 

[cutter]

salaboB, do you ever attend tournaments regularly or even host them?

 

[.AC.]

just wondering..why is this thread here instead of torunament discussion?as far as i know mk isnt the only one that can plank.

 

[mr.fizwidget]

melee>brawl imo
im catholic

of the 8 people who play smash in my county only 1 is religious and thinks brawl is better than melee

oh and i also believe that metaknight has no reason to be banned

there are techniques in brawl that are more difficult/advanced than techniques in melee, so technically the people with faith (not me) were right about the metagame, to a degree.

lol about jesus proving his existence

This games winner is...

not plairnkk

 

[Plairnkk]

This games winner is...

Yeah, he wins. Arguing with religious people is, and has always been, futile. I shouldn't bother trying.

@fizwidget that's fine, there are always exceptions to the norm.

 

[Tyr_03]

Planking can be beaten. It is not a problem.

Also, putting down other people for their religious beliefs is not cool.

 

[Sushi-Man]

Plank, I would advice you not to attack someone's religious affiliation.

 

[salaboB]

salaboB, do you ever attend tournaments regularly or even host them?

No and no. But would it matter if I did? I'm stuck in WA and none of the big interesting tournaments are happening around here anyway so if you intended to discredit my experience on that you'd have a number of ways to do it that I can't do a thing about. But that's also why I don't claim to draw upon my Brawl tournament experience - find where I've done that, and I'll agree that it's relevant and I was in error.

I'd prefer if you could just prove me wrong if what I'm basing my views on is incorrect so that I can have a more accurate view of things.

 

[Ant1]

My opinion is that no, planking shouldn't be banned. It isn't that big enough of a problem for it to be banned. Perhaps if plank was winning big tournaments or getting in the top 4 then it could be considered, but vs very good players it doesn't work.
Just curious but what characters did u lose to in Apex plairnk?

Planking is just morally wrong to do, it's not as bad as say dedede's infinite chaingrabs on some stages or vs dk imo.
Only a few people actually do it. In Australia like one person does it and he uses pit, but he never wins tournaments.

If u know u are going to be up against someone who planks, then swap characters to someone like snake, or anyone with a good projectile or go MK.
I don't understand why people have these loyalty's to their characters and never change. I myself have multiple 'mains' and secondaries. I've played brawl enough as u guys would've to be good at every character, in order to counterpick my opponents character with their worst matchup.
I also main wolf aswell as ganondorf, but if i see a hard matchup i change to the better characters such as snake, as with wolf and ganon im limited by the characters ability.
U can't plank for very long vs a snake so just go snake, he's a pretty easy character to use, so it's not hard to get good at him imo.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It is relevant because people who are religious believe things based on theory (as illegitimate as it may be) rather than on fact. When has planking ever won a big tournament? You are pro-ban for something that has never been proven broken.

Why?

Because you aren't good enough to beat it, so even though it's never effected the game at a top level against a good player, you pull for a ban, just like the rest of the pro-ban players. Very few of them are any good at all.

M2K is a very conservative, safe player. Hanging off the edge where one false button push will end your life is not particularly a -safe- tactic.

I would be all for banning planking or essentially ANYTHING if it's proven broken. Proof doesn't matter one bit to you though, since you're a religious nut. I can guarantee you the correlation of pro-ban players and being religious is very notable.

It was the same thing when Brawl came out, and I got into a lot of deep discussions about this with some of my friends and did some research to back my findings. The majority of Melee players who were atheist/agnostic etc when Brawl came out quickly realized Brawl was stupid. This was based on gameplay and evidence. However those who were religious in Melee fell in love with Brawl, stating ("the game just came out, i'm sure the metagame will advance and AT's will be found with time!!")

It's the same concept. Whether or not you have blind faith in Brawl being good and AT's existing, or whether or not you have blind faith that the game is going to degrade to Planking overrunning tournaments, it's still blind.

You just take whatever has happened and curve your blind faith into any argument you want to make without any real evidence or reasoning behind it. So don't tell me my question isn't relevant because it is very, very relevant.

It's very frustrating watching a slew of stupid people argue their point with no logical reasoning at all.

When Jesus proves himself to me, I'll believe in Christianity. When Planking overwhelmingly wins tournaments more than other tactics, I'll agree with banning Planking. It's simple intelligence, and I wish more people had it.

You just lost every bit of credibility you had.

 

[Plairnkk]

Hahaha I obviously don't care about being given credibility by anyone. I'm catching **** for pointing out that if you live your life blindly by a false set of guidelines that this mentality may carry on into other aspects of life? People revolt when they hear what they don't want to hear or what isn't "proper" to say.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Hahaha I obviously don't care about being given credibility by anyone. I'm catching **** for pointing out that if you live your life blindly by a false set of guidelines that this mentality may carry on into other aspects of life? People revolt when they hear what they don't want to hear or what isn't "proper" to say.

Your trying to claim he's being blinded by theory and Religion is one of the causes of it. There is a difference between blind faith, ignorant faith and real faith.

Blind faith is believing something without trying to see if it makes sense.

Ignorant faith is believing in something while ignoring everything around you.

If you have real faith, you'll beleive in something, but you will refine your ideals when you grow and gain experience.

You seem to think everyone who is religious is someone who says everyone is ****ed to hell and that they think scientific evidence is faulty. I'm giving you crap because you clearly don't know what your talking about, with religion, and tried to use religion as an excuse to not rebuttal.

 

[DotHack]

I'm fairly sure he refuted all points that were possibly valid at the time before bashing religeon.

 

[Crizthakidd]

although i like the way plank thinks in terms of relating this "faith" to brawl and stuff please dont relate it to christianity. not only did ANYONE ask ur religeon or your views on it, why do u have the need to tell us u dont beleive in it. i think its funny how athiest are born with the need to NOT beleive in something they dont think exsists. (no more religeon discussion lol this is META)

basically plank plays that way agaisnt certain people. he did not gay every match he had except for the diddy player who was clearly very anoying to him lolol if you guys think this tactic is soo good and all why wont you try it and win a tournament. why try to ban the only tool that would help u get first?

because it wont work. get to higher lvls of play/ even stuff i never experianced but people seem to see the game ( the pros ) in ways we dont and that is why things are allowed and other things, like limit ledge grabs are in effect. no one has ever planked any one of you guys so why so much hate on it. and the whole lets stop it / why does it have to happen to us if we can prevent it stuff isnt reliable because if you were a true player you would know how to stop it or get around it. if it hapens game 3 tho i can see problems arrising... make sure ur tournaments say planking/ stalling banned.

 

[NC-Echo]

Plank enjoys attacking people for no reason, to make his point. Plank your point could easily be made without insulting people or their beliefs.

As far as planking goes, I realize that currently planking is not winning any huge tournaments. I believe that planking should be limited because I think that it is necessary to take action pro-actively rather than retro-actively. I don't remember a single big tournament being won in melee by peach wallbombing, yet using it to stall was banned. I see little difference between the two yet it was banned in melee.

Lastly I am getting really tired of this, "a good player will beat it" argument. If I am playing someone skilled enough to get a percent lead on me and I am playing one of the several characters who can do nothing about planking, then planking can beat me even if I am more skilled than my opponent. My opponent in many situations doesn't even have to be perfect. Maybe if I am playing snake he has to be but if I am playing Olimar or Falco or countless others, frame perfect precision is far from necessary.

 

[Nic64]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF3BfiNxpiU

snake can be planked, just MK isn't really your best choice for it.

 

[cutter]

No and no. But would it matter if I did? I'm stuck in WA and none of the big interesting tournaments are happening around here anyway so if you intended to discredit my experience on that you'd have a number of ways to do it that I can't do a thing about. But that's also why I don't claim to draw upon my Brawl tournament experience - find where I've done that, and I'll agree that it's relevant and I was in error.

I'd prefer if you could just prove me wrong if what I'm basing my views on is incorrect so that I can have a more accurate view of things.

Because people that go to tournaments are the ones actually affected by a decision like this? People that actually go to tournaments and/or host them have more of a qualification to decided on something like banning MK. Why should people who do not go to tournaments/host tournaments have just as equal of a say as the people that do go to them and understand what's actually happening?

Also, WA has a great smash community. Both WWA and EWA are both active communities and they have hosted some pretty big stuff considering they're in the Pacific NW. Just in two weeks there will be the big TourneyPlay in Seattle and big names are coming like M2K, DSF, Fiction, and more.

 

[salaboB]

Because people that go to tournaments are the ones actually affected by a decision like this? People that actively go to tournaments and/or host them have more of a qualification to decided on something like banning MK. Why should people who do not go to tournaments/host tournaments have just as equal of a say as the people that do go to them and understand what's actually happening?

When did I say I expected an equal say? All I was asking was if Plairnkk was going to say my basic ideas are wrong, he provide evidence for why.

I have no disagreement with you on this point.

Also, WA has a great smash community. Both WWA and EWA are both active communities and they have hosted some pretty big stuff considering they're in the Pacific NW. Just in two weeks there will be the big TourneyPlay in Seattle and big names are coming like M2K, DSF, Fiction, and more.

I'm frequently out of state so unfortunately don't have the ability to make it to a lot of these things, either (Or truthfully, the money. I'm not a good enough player that any would be coming back and I'm quite literally broke right now.) But that's interesting to hear, it somehow slipped my attention.

 

[Nefarious B]

I don't think how you play a game really effects how you are in real life, or vice versa; it can if someone has the same mindset in everything they do (which is stupid and limiting).

For example, I am a Catholic, more spiritual than religious though (as in, the arbitrary rules are stupid, the central message is what matters), but when I'm gaming I am decidedly anti-scrub. As in, do what you have to to win, go as hard as you want to, beat me until I can adapt to what you're doing, and if there is now way to beat what you're doing except do it myself, -then- we can talk about bans.

I am anti MK ban, moreso than I was 3 monthes ago. I am also anti plank banning at this time though if it does become a problem, please ban it. I think people who do it suck the fun out of the game, and won't get any respect from me for that, but if all they're interested in is the money then by all means do what best helps you achieve that goal.

 

[TKD]

Planking is a serious problem and the solution is not "get better". Does anyone have any ideas on rules that could limit the possibility of planking?

An extension to the ledge grab rule that states that the character "Meta Knight" can grab the ledge like 25 times instead of the around 50 ledge grabs everyone else gets.

It's just an idea for tourneys that use the ledge grab rule. I think Meta Knight's too good either way though.

 

[Jim Morrison]

An extension to the ledge grab rule that states that the character "Meta Knight" can grab the ledge like 25 times instead of the around 50 ledge grabs everyone else gets.

It's just an idea for tourneys that use the ledge grab rule. I think Meta Knight's too good either way though.

No exceptions for characters, that's like putting the handicap bar on and characters like MK or Snake are given a higher handicap bar to even it out. Welcome to B+.

 

[DZhou]

No exceptions for characters, that's like putting the handicap bar on and characters like MK or Snake are given a higher handicap bar to even it out. Welcome to B+.

Exceptions can and should be made if it is for the better. For example in Smash 64, Saffron City can't be randomed if someone chooses Ness.

Personally, I think all MKs should lose if the timer runs out

 

[PottyJokes]

itt : olimar player gets mad cuz he can't force MK to approach him. good stuff

 

[Crizthakidd]

lol that pit against afro was really determined to win that way. but theres so many things snake could of done to that kind of planking.

"planking is still a problem" - it is??

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[cubaisdeath]

Personally, I think all MKs should lose if the timer runs out

so if the MK is on the aggressive the whole match, and has percentage lead, then a wario air camps him for 2 minutes with a fart stored up, the timer runs out, and MK loses? yeah....thats smart

I am anti MK ban, moreso than I was 3 monthes ago. I am also anti plank banning at this time though if it does become a problem, please ban it. I think people who do it suck the fun out of the game, and won't get any respect from me for that, but if all they're interested in is the money then by all means do what best helps you achieve that goal.

fun and winning are usually synonymous to most people. good to see you have reasoning behind your statements though =)

But anyway t0mmy and I found something interesting while messing around and trying to figure out how to beat planking with different characters. If you shield at the edge after running (so you have momentum), and you're hit with MK's falling uair from the ledge as soon as you bring up your shield, your character will fall off the edge instantly (though in the "tumbling" state), which we suspect gives the non-planker the opportunity to hit the planker.

you make it sound like MK doesn't have 5 more jumps and like 10 aerials he could throw out, let alone a drill rush or a shuttle loop lol

 

[Needle of Juntah]

planking is a part of the meta game where people fail, its called l2p, there no such thing as planking.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[salaboB]

planking is a part of the meta game where people fail, its called l2p, there no such thing as planking.

There's no such thing as a tier list either!

Just l2p and you can win everything with Captain Falcon! PAAUUUUNCH!

 

[Nefarious B]

w(because MK is still in the cooldown of his uair)

What is this "cooldown" you speak of

 

[DanGR]

Planking is a serious problem and the solution is not "get better". Does anyone have any ideas on rules that could limit the possibility of planking?

If you're hard-set on banning planking, which is debatable in itself might I add, you don't have any other choice besides imposing an arbitrary rule stating that "planking" is banned by judge ruling.

The TOs in AL have decided to ban planking with this arbitrary rule because planking makes our small tournaments run longer than they should, and it turns new players away from our growing smash scene. We're a relatively small smash state right now, with our small tourneys ranging in attendance anywhere from 20-30 players and the larger ones about 35-45 players. Planking, as legitimate and "not banworthy" a strategy as it is, and as arbitrary a rule against it may be, has been deemed by our TOs too unhealthy for our competitive environment for it to stay.

Personally, I don't think it should be banned simply because it hasn't been proven broken. But that's another story. :3

 

[cubaisdeath]

wtf are you talking about? after you fall off the stage you can grab the ledge and drop and attack MK with an aerial/special move/footstool since you have invincibility from the edge and mk doesn't. you probably don't even need to grab the ledge because if done right you will have a frame advantage (because MK is still in the cooldown of his uair)

wow, you clearly don't know how to play against people who actually know how to "plank," nor do you know the mechanics or the frame data for MetaKnight

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Tournament Hoster to determine "planking" problem. Simpliest solution I know of. You cannot deal with it, then learn how to.

 

[Plairnkk]

wow, you clearly don't know how to play against people who actually know how to "plank," nor do you know the mechanics or the frame data for MetaKnight

Actually hes pretty much right. It just depends on what character you are using. Planking is really easy to stop for the 1% of the community with a brain.

 

[Mew2King]

dude you're dumb (<3), planking is broken

don't justify your gay tactic, it's cheap and unfair

host a huge tourney with planking legal. I will GLADLY show you how dumb it is.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[AddictedGamer]

If you need a reason to ban Meta Knight, all you have to do is say he has no disadvantage matchups. That in itself states that he is broken. Every other character has disadvantage matchups.


Edit: He has his own tier! (So does snake but he's not that far away from the A Tier)