Pit Matchup Listing

[Coffee™]

R.O.B. Can approach with solid Aerials that out-prioritizes Olimar's Moves, than can land with an attack faster than Olimar's grabs. Which is why ROB beats Olimar.

See thats the thing Rogue, R.O.B. does not have solid aerials to approach Olimar. R.O.B can only approach with Fair and with the height of his SH coupled with the fact that he can only do one Fair per SH, he isn't really gaining any notable advantage in approching Olimar. The only saving grace here is Dsmash which he can use to get rid of Pikmin and attack Olimar but that wll only get him so far.

R.O.B can approach pretty decently with Ftilt since Olimar can't grab him through it but in that situation all Olimar would have to do is retreat using Pikmin Throw to avoid any real trouble with R.O.B..

Pit can't really approach him
Pit dies pretty easily
Pit gets outcamped

All in all R.O.B pretty much falls under the same categories. It is hard for R.O.B to approach, Olimar will proabably rack up enough damage on R.O.B to kill him relatively quickly despite his weight and he gets out camped worse than Pit does, especially if Olimar decides to simply hold on to his Gyro.

I'm not saying this matchup is in Pit's advantage or anything, but anything less than neutral, especially since R.O.B is listed as a 65:35 with some pretty negligable differences just doesn't seem right. For the record I don't think R.O.B even has that much of an advantage.

So... is this the thread I should use for the character board matchup thread?

Yea.

The first matchup thread you have listed in that thread isn't used anymore, so you can take that down.

 

[MrEh]

All in all R.O.B pretty much falls under the same categories

Um...

1. ROB doesn't have to approach, so saying he has no approach really doesn't affect anything. At all. Olimar will be forced to approach.

2. ROB is heavy and has a godly recovery.

3. ROB outcamps everyone. Saying that Olimar outcamps ROB is crazy.

R.O.B can only approach with Fair and with the height of his SH coupled with the fact that he can only do one Fair per SH, he isn't really gaining any notable advantage in approching Olimar

I'm not sure if you've ever played a good ROB, but Fair is a horrible approach. A good ROB won't use it. Ever. There's no need to approach when ROB can just play really defensive.

I'm not saying this matchup is in Pit's advantage or anything, but anything less than neutral, especially since R.O.B is listed as a 65:35 with some pretty negligable differences just doesn't seem right. For the record I don't think R.O.B even has that much of an advantage.

It's not neutral man. Let's look at the points that were said before. The differences are not negligible, they are very apparent.

1. Pit can't really approach him
2. Pit dies pretty easily
3. Pit gets outcamped

1. Pit has no good approach in this fight. Most grounded attacks will be stopped by Olimar's grabs and smashes, which have godly range. Even if you attack with aerials, Olimar has a lot of things he can do to you. Shieldgrabs can stop a lot of aerials, and not to mention that Olimar can just pivot grab or smash to create a pretty mean defense.

2. Pit dies easily against Olimar. Pit is not a lightweight, but Olimar can just kill at very low percents. Purple Pikmin and Blue Pikmin throws kill, and Olimar's aerials and smashes have good killing power as well, especially if they're coming from a Blue, Red, or Pruple. Also, due to Olimar being able to rack up damage insanely fast, death comes quick.

3. Let's assume that you don't try to approach in this fight. So you start shooting arrows. It's not going to work against Olimar. Pikmin beat arrows, and he can chuck them with increidble ferocity. Unlike ROB, Pit simply cannot keep up with Olimar's Pikmin. You'll be forced to approach in this fight


ROB is listed as a 65-45(although it's debatable to be slightly lower) simply because he outcamps Olimar and has insanely fast and good tilts to distance himself from an approaching Olimar. ROB also punishes well, and Olimar is no exception.

Pit on the other hand, cannot outcamp Olimar. And he cannot outrange Olimar. So that's why he does much worse then ROB. Pit will be forced to approach, and since he has no good approach, he won't do as well.

So... is this the thread I should use for the character board matchup thread?

You're going to get a very funny and contradicting pair of ratios if you do that. Just wait until the DK boards discuss Pit and you'll see why. XD

jk

 

[Coffee™]

Um...

1. ROB doesn't have to approach, so saying he has no approach really doesn't affect anything. At all. Olimar will be forced to approach.

2. ROB is heavy and has a godly recovery.

3. ROB outcamps everyone. Saying that Olimar outcamps ROB is crazy.

1: Ok these points are just silly. Olimar only has to approach until he reaches mid range, from there R.O.B cannot outcamp him.

2: R.O.B is heavy yes but the recovery thing matters very little in this matchup. It's not like Olimar is ever going to try gimping him.

3: Get over it. R.O.B cannot outcamp everyone. Pit fires arrows at a rate of about 2 per second, it takes R.O.B about 3 -3.5 seconds to fire a Gyro and a Lazer consecutively, and R.O.B has to wait roughly 2 seconds before he can fire a Lazer immediately after another. Even if you look at the frame data, Pit's frame data for his Arrows is faster than both the frame data for R.O.B's Gyro or Lazer. Pit's Arrows fly at about the same speed as R.O.B's Lazer and have more manueverability, I'm not even going to really bother looking at the Gyro in comparison as it is slower, easier to powershield telegraphed to some degree and can be used against R.O.B T_T.

Just for your reference Falco camps better than both of them and just for reference, Falco fires Lazers at roughly 3 per second assuming a full hop.

You say R.O.B is the king of camping, but pure numbers are hard to ignore, he simply isn't. The fact that characters can simply hold on to his Gyro to basially half his ability to camp doesn't say much for the supposed "king of camping".

I'm not sure if you've ever played a good ROB, but Fair is a horrible approach. A good ROB won't use it. Ever. There's no need to approach when ROB can just play really defensive.

This way in reply to Rogue's post, stop using it out of context. Rogue said R.O.B can approach with solid aerials, but he really can't without a fair amount of risk to himself. SH Fair and FHFF Nair are probably his best aerial approaches and Olimar can beat both.

3. Let's assume that you don't try to approach in this fight. So you start shooting arrows. It's not going to work against Olimar. Pikmin beat arrows, and he can chuck them with increidble ferocity. Unlike ROB, Pit simply cannot keep up with Olimar's Pikmin. You'll be forced to approach in this fight

Dude, if Olimar outcamps Pit, he outcamps R.O.B it's as simple as that. You said before that Olimar throws Pikmin faster tha Pit can shoot arrows, I haven't checked that out framewise or anything but if it is true, then he also throws them faster than R.O.B can fire back anything.

ROB is listed as a 65-45(although it's debatable to be slightly lower) simply because he outcamps Olimar and has insanely fast and good tilts to distance himself from an approaching Olimar. ROB also punishes well, and Olimar is no exception.

65:35 is a hell of an advanatge when he can't outcamp Olimar and Olimar technically as an answer to just about all of his moves.

Pit on the other hand, cannot outcamp Olimar. And he cannot outrange Olimar. So that's why he does much worse then ROB. Pit will be forced to approach, and since he has no good approach, he won't do as well.

Do you realise no character outranges Olimar? Again, Pit can camp Olimar better than R.O.B but neither does a great job at it, just get over that. R.O.B 's saving grace in the matchup is that his tilts and Dsmash can cause Olimar some problems, but they aren't good enough the matchup in favour of R.O.B so much.

You're going to get a very funny and contradicting pair of ratios if you do that. Just wait until the DK boards discuss Pit and you'll see why. XD

Don't they have it at like 50:50?

 

[Rogue Pit]

Okay based on what you guys are saying I'm just gonna say this. By two best smash related friends are ChiboSempai a ROB main and .Com an Olimar Main.

SPAMMING
You both are sorta wrong.
It's actually a Rock Paper Scissor Effect.
Olimar Outcamps Pit because Pikmin go through arrows and come out much faster. Not to mention they stick to him and he has to worry about them giving him damage and has to knock them off giving olimar more time to hit him with more pikmin. While this time Pit moves are degrading.

Pit Outspams ROB because of the speed of his arrows. They have hitstun and are quick i guess. They fire faster than ROB can shoot and can be angled quite easily. Pit can Reflect anything ROB throws at him if he reacts quick enough which isn't very hard. ROB can reflect but leaves himself open to attacks by Pit.

ROB outspams Olimar because even though his guro can be taken it requires attention to maintain and keep outta ROB's arms and ROB can easily punish. ROB's Laser goes through Pikmin and has significant knockback messing up olimar's timing.

APPROACHING
Pit has to approach olimar because his arrows will do no good as the pikmin will beat him. All of Pit's Approachs can be easily shield grabbed or pivot grabbed, which as MrEh said has Godly range. Pit can outprioritize him in the air but Olimar's stay on the ground and keep their distant.

ROB CAN approach Olimar because of his No Lag aerials and Quick ground moves. A Bair Angled away from olimar will send ROB near Olimar still having a Hitbox that can damage olimar. A Dtilt comes out extremely quickly and cannot be shield grabbed by olimar. If Olimar tries to Pivot grab the ROB shield be able to either get away or ftilt and hit Olimar.
Also a SH Nair will work in the same effect. But ROB really doesn't have to approach olimar.

Pit vs ROB approaching isn't up for debate now... at least i think.

Match-Ups
ROB vs Olimar
ROB can successfully approach
ROB can Outcamp olimar
ROB is not light at all
ROB is very fast
Olimar makes him have to approach cautiously
ROB can Gimp olimar. IF he is in the air, Nair will hit if u WAC or AD. If you are lower recoverying, Edgehop or Bair.
Olimar can Combo ROB at early %s
Olimar is Light..... and short with a big nose xD

Pit vs Olimar
Pit cannot successfully approach
Pit gets outcamped by olimar
They are both light
Olimar makes it almost impossible to approach, do so with cautiously. Technically if olimar doesn't make a mistake, you cannot approach him
Pit can Gimp Olimar with arrows if he DIs incorrectly
Olimar can combo Pit at early Percents
Pit Dies Fairly Easy to smashs or throws.
Olimar can sweet spot the ledge from above and possibly gimp pit's recovery.

What they can do

Olimar can Pivot grab all of Pit's aerial and ground based approachs
Olimar's Usmash has invisible hitbox which kills fairly easy.
Olimar can Combo into usmash with a Falling Nair
Olimar can WAC hits to recover
Olimar is short so you will have to curve arrows correctly

Pit's AR can gimp Olimar if done correctly. If he ledgehops and Pit ARs he is out of a jump and if he doesn't DI properly will get gimped.
Pit's arrows can be spammed when Olimar is offstage.
Pit's Glide attack outprioritizes all of Olimar's Ground moves and Aerials. Not his Up+B
Pit can reflect pikmin and retreat
Pit can Melee like edgehop Olimar
Pit can SHFFAD utilt to beat shield grab. But doesn't beat Pivot grabs

All in all, onstage Olimar wins, Offstage Pit wins, but Olimars make it a onstage fight which sets it in his favor. Pit will have troubling getting close to kill him.

Fin

 

[Coffee™]

I disagree with a bit of the stuff theoretically but I trust your matchup experience and plus you save me ever having to write an Olimar matchup summary when we get there xD.

 

[MrEh]

1: Ok these points are just silly. Olimar only has to approach until he reaches mid range, from there R.O.B cannot outcamp him.

So what's Olimar going to do at mid range? Chuck Pikmin at him? If Olimar starts to approach, ROB can get ballsy with glide tosses and his tilts.

2: R.O.B is heavy yes but the recovery thing matters very little in this matchup. It's not like Olimar is ever going to try gimping him.

Recovery does matter in this matchup. Olimar can be gimped by ROB in very surprising ways.

Just for your reference Falco camps better than both of them and just for reference, Falco fires Lazers at roughly 3 per second assuming a full hop.

Good for Falco.

You say R.O.B is the king of camping, but pure numbers are hard to ignore, he simply isn't. The fact that characters can simply hold on to his Gyro to basially half his ability to camp doesn't say much for the supposed "king of camping".

ROB letting someone get his Gyro is like seeing Diddy giving someone his Bananas.

ROB will never give up the Gyro. Shielded Gyros disappear, so the only realistic way for your opponent to get the Gyro is if he threw it right in front of you...and missed.

This way in reply to Rogue's post, stop using it out of context. Rogue said R.O.B can approach with solid aerials, but he really can't without a fair amount of risk to himself. SH Fair and FHFF Nair are probably his best aerial approaches and Olimar can beat both.

I just said that ROB doesn't have to approach. And Fair is a horrible approach.

Dude, if Olimar outcamps Pit, he outcamps R.O.B it's as simple as that.

No it's not.

Pit fires arrows at a rate of about 2 per second, it takes R.O.B about 3 -3.5 seconds to fire a Gyro and a Lazer consecutively, and R.O.B has to wait roughly 2 seconds before he can fire a Lazer immediately after another. Even if you look at the frame data, Pit's frame data for his Arrows is faster than both the frame data for R.O.B's Gyro or Lazer. Pit's Arrows fly at about the same speed as R.O.B's Lazer and have more manueverability, I'm not even going to really bother looking at the Gyro in comparison as it is slower, easier to powershield telegraphed to some degree and can be used against R.O.B T_T....

...You said before that Olimar throws Pikmin faster tha Pit can shoot arrows, I haven't checked that out framewise or anything but if it is true, then he also throws them faster than R.O.B can fire back anything.

Yeah, he does chuck Pikmin faster.

As for ROB, his Laser and Gyro simply kill Pikmin better then Arrows do. And the Laser goes through everything, meaning even if it hits a Pikmin, it can still hit Olimar. Arrows on the other hand, disappear.

65:35 is a hell of an advanatge when he can't outcamp Olimar and Olimar technically as an answer to just about all of his moves.

He does outcamp Olimar. And Olimar fails offstage, which is where ROB does very well.

Do you realise no character outranges Olimar?

Yeah, but Olimar has exploitable weaknesses all the same. ROB's tilts have big hitboxes and come out fast. They are prefect for punishing Olimar's attacks. And of course, the aforementioned offstage advantage.

Don't they have it at like 50:50?

Not in their current thread. They haven't done it yet there. They're going to have a field day when they see that 65-35.


It may seem like I'm being a giant d*ck here, but I'm just trying to be realistic. Pit having these many good matchups doesn't make any sense. If Pit did this well in all of his matchups, he wouldn't be mid tier.

 

[DanGR]

I actually think Olimar outcamps ROB. It's hard to do at first, but I do think Olimar can spam pikmin faster than ROB can use his gyro and laser. (I made a guide about camping a while ago) I think a big reason you don't see ROBs complaining about it is because they've got good enough of an approach game against Oli for it not to matter that much. With that in mind, I still feel the matchup is solidly in ROB's favor- contrary to many other Olimar player's opinion that it's around even or Oli's advantage.

It's debatable.

 

[Justblaze647]

Wow! Pit has surprising decent Match-ups... all things considered...

 

[Lenus Altair]

I'm hardly the best or most experienced Pit around, but I'm going to throw out my own matchup list using this system anyway. I doubt its perfect.

Bowser: +1
Captain Falcon: +6
Diddy Kong: +1
Donkey Kong: +2
Falco: 0 or -1
Fox: 0
Game and Watch: -3
Ganandorf: +5
Ice Climbers: +1 or 0
Ike: +2
Jiggly Puff: +3
King Dedede: 0
Kirby: 0
Link: +3
Lucario: 0
Lucas: +2
Luigi: +1
Mario: +1
Marth: -2
Metaknight: -4
Ness: +2
Olimar: -2
Peach: 0
Pikachu: 0
Pit: 0
Piokemon Trainer: +3
Rob: +1
Samus: +2
Shiek: 0
Snake: 0
Sonic: +1
Toon Link: 0
Wario: -1
Wolf: +1
Yoshi: 0
Zelda: 0 or +1
Zero Suit Samus: ?

Thats my gist anyway...

 

[Coffee™]

Recovery does matter in this matchup. Olimar can be gimped by ROB in very surprising ways.

Yea, but that wasn't my point. I was talking about Olimar gimping R.O.B.

ROB will never give up the Gyro. Shielded Gyros disappear, so the only realistic way for your opponent to get the Gyro is if he threw it right in front of you...and missed.

There are multiple ways to dodge things and Olimar could have gotten hit with it before.

Not in their current thread. They haven't done it yet there. They're going to have a field day when they see that 65-35.

I wouldn't be surprised, saying Pit has a 65:35 advantage over anyone seems like blasphemy lol.

It may seem like I'm being a giant d*ck here, but I'm just trying to be realistic. Pit having these many good matchups doesn't make any sense. If Pit did this well in all of his matchups, he wouldn't be mid tier.

Thing is...Pit is very underrated. His matchups aren't bad. There just aren't many great Pit players and the ones that are good don't travel so not many people know what he's capable of. Pit is more or less mid tier because his bad matchups are very common in tournies, those being Metaknight and Game and Watch, thus so not many people use him.

 

[DanGR]

There's tons of ways to get the gyro if he doesn't glide toss it. Whenever the gyro hits a pikmin, it'll pop up in the air for a second and then fall to the ground. Fsmashing the gyro will do this. So will hitting a thrown pikmin or one that's walking back from being thrown. If/when Olimar gets the gyro, (remember, olimar can still throw pikmin with the gyro in his hand) the only thing we have to worry about is the laser- a projectile that's pretty easy to watch and dodge.

edit: would you guys mind placing a number on the Sheik+Zelda matchup?

 

[MrEh]

I'm hardly the best or most experienced Pit around, but I'm going to throw out my own matchup list using this system anyway. I doubt its perfect.

Mine looks more like this.

Bowser: +1/0
Captain Falcon: +4
Diddy Kong: 0
Donkey Kong: 0
Falco: 0 or -1
Fox: 0
Game and Watch: -3
Ganandorf: +4
Ice Climbers: 0
Ike: +2
Jiggly Puff: +2
King Dedede: 0
Kirby: 0
Link: +2
Lucario: -1/0
Lucas: +1/0
Luigi: 0
Mario: 0
Marth: -2
Metaknight: -4
Ness: 0
Olimar: -2
Peach: 0
Pikachu: -1/0
Pit: 0
Piokemon Trainer: +2
Rob: 0
Samus: +2
Shiek: 0
Snake: -2/-1
Sonic: 0
Toon Link: -1/0
Wario: -1
Wolf: 0
Yoshi: 0
Zelda: 0
Zero Suit Samus: 0

So all in all, the matchups aren't that bad to me.

 

[Coffee™]

The Sheik + Zelda would probably be even / (0) since Sheik goes pretty even with Pit and the Sheik + Zelda player can just play Sheik the entire match, just going to Zelda for the kill, eliminating for the most part Zelda's disadvantages in the matchup.

Also, even though the chart itself has been updated yet the following matchups are scheduled to be changed.

PT from +3 to +2
Sonic from +2 to 0
Falco from 0 to -1

 

[DanGR]

Well, if Sheik without Zelda is even, wouldn't you think that adding a good killing game might help push it into Sheik+Zelda's favor? Or does Sheik kill Pit well enough that switching to Zelda wouldn't benefit her...

Btw, I'm only bringing this up for the character board chart. A lot of the matchup threads ignore the Sheik/Zelda matchup.

 

[Admiral Pit]

For Zelda, both chars want their opponent in the air.

Zelda discourages Pit from gliding in the matchup with her Din's fire, Usmash and U-tilt, and to note...
Pit SHOULD NEVER approach a Zelda from above, she will win.

On Pit's side, he can use D-tilt to launch Zelda in the air, then start his aerial combat and delivering U-airs when necessary.

Generally, Zelda has slightly more range, most of her moves have lingering hitboxes with good power, where Pit is mostly quicker with a variety of Multiple-hit and shield-pressuring moves for the most part.

It's harder to camp against Zelda than some think, and her projectile and reflector are the problems.

For gimping, both chars have their own ways of gimping each other, includes Zelda's fireball to Pit's Up-B, and Pit's arrows to Zelda in general, or predict where Zelda is goin to go and punish. However, I say that Pit has the advantage in the "Gimping" section.

In weight classes and KO section, Pit is middle of the medium, but Zelda gots good KO power, while Pit has some poor KO power (with the exception of B-air sweetspot), but Zelda is light.

Pit is pretty much limited from approaching from above and gliding, and camp that well against Zelda. Zelda does suffer from being vulnerable in some of her moves. Example: Zelda is vulnerable while doing Din's Fire, and a Pit can just shoot an arrow at her for punishment.

This is where I say Pit and Zelda are 50/50 Even. As Far as Sheik goes, you'll probably have to find someone else.

Oh yea, about stages. It will be in Zelda's favor at YI and Luigi's mansion (obviously), where I personally think Lylat is a good stage for Pit, and Norfair.

 

[Coffee™]

Well, if Sheik without Zelda is even, wouldn't you think that adding a good killing game might help push it into Sheik+Zelda's favor? Or does Sheik kill Pit well enough that switching to Zelda wouldn't benefit her...

It shouldn't really benefit her too much. Sheik is harder for Pit to camp than Zelda is despite her reflector and projectile, so its entirely possible for Pit to end up building up a lot more damage against Sheik + Zelda assuming the player switches to Zelda to get the kill.

If Pit decides to just run away and camp to gain percentage then, Sheik's speed would probably be more advantageous in comparison to Zelda's power as far as getting a KO is concerned.

 

[DominusHaven]

I really like the chart so far, it seems pretty much correct it every aspect, I would also like to ask a bit about the Ice Climbers match-up considering I am very unexperienced in it (Have never fought an Ice climber main ._.), How is that advantageous for Pit, what does he have on the IC's, what do they have on him, and what should I do to make sure I am doing the right things against them, for future reference if I have to go up against a good one. I would like to learn a bit about the match-up.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I've been hearing word about a Pit vs ICs matchup, and with do respect with the upmost annoying IC CG thing, I still think Pit has a small advantage.

The problem with the ICs is that they are 2 chars. They have problems against a lot of "Multi-hit" moves, such as Pit's spinning bow jab. That there is one of the more common moves that I have used against em, since many ICs would try to rush and grab quickly. Pit's jab would be one of Pit's bigger defenses, stopping ice blocks, and could only be outprioritized by a spaced Blizzard of Fsmash.

D-tilt is also another good move to Pit's arsenal. For one, it sends em in the air when connected (with the exception of the spike). Pit is better in the air, and D-tilt is a good start, then other moves like U-air COULD (not always) seperate both ICs from each other, allowing Pit to quickly take one of em down before reuniting.

I've been tempted to using SH N-airs whatsoever. I realize that it is a good shield-pressuring move, and that one of the ICs might get knocked away, but still, poor Pit could be Shieldgrabbed.

Mirror Shield shouldnt be used in this matchup, which would leave you open, unless you dare try to gimp their Side-B recovery. I dont recommend Angel Ring either

Pit couldnt camp against them completely, for Desync Ice blocks are enough to get basically any Pit out of camping.

Pit's arrows cant stop Ice blocks, but can stop Blizzard.

I still consider Pit to a small advantage, like 55-45 for Pit, mainly because he could personally seperate the ICs easily compared to most of the cast with his variety of moves, especially the spinning bow jab, D-tilt, and U-air.

As far as Stages go, ban FD first, and I CP Norfair against them.

That's just for you, Haven, hope it helps.

 

[Rogue Pit]

I really like the chart so far, it seems pretty much correct it every aspect, I would also like to ask a bit about the Ice Climbers match-up considering I am very unexperienced in it (Have never fought an Ice climber main ._.),

Cool

How is that advantageous for Pit,

Run away

what does he have on the IC's,

Arrows

what do they have on him,

Zero to deaths

and what should I do to make sure I am doing the right things against them, for future reference if I have to go up against a good one. I would like to learn a bit about the match-up.

Ban FD, CP Norfair.
Run away the whole match, shoot arrows, use multihitters that won't get you grab. If they start desyncing. Run away and shoot arrows. I REPEAT JUST DON'T GET GRABBED and camp platforms.

 

[MDZD]

based on how Vex Kasrani plays, id say Bowser v.s Pit is +1, but thats just my opinon

 

[Undrdog]

I'm not seeing the issue against Marth. And Pit has a larger advantage against Bowser then +2. And a larger advantage against Dedede then +2.

ZSS should be at least +1.
Ness +2.
Ike is probably as high as +4.
Captain Falcon +5.
Jiggy +4.
Sonic +3.
Wolf +2.
R.O.B. +1 or +2. Never saw the big deal there either.

They aren't that important as differences but I figured I'd give my opinion.

And MK and G&W could be bumped a few more negative points probably. lol

 

[Coffee™]

Can you explain your reasoning? ... Personally, I don't think Ike or DDD are that bad or that G&W is at that much of an advantage. =/

 

[teh_pwns_the]

yo the advantage on dk is WAYYYYYY more than +3
i love dk but he is just simply pits play toy since pit is difficult to spike and dk is a pretty epic target for arrows

dk was the first lvl 9 that i ever 3 stocked, not sure if thats relevant but its part of my reasoning

 

[Hayang]

yo the advantage on dk is WAYYYYYY more than +3
i love dk but he is just simply pits play toy since pit is difficult to spike and dk is a pretty epic target for arrows

dk was the first lvl 9 that i ever 3 stocked, not sure if thats relevant but its part of my reasoning

That's not very true... DK has a easy time KOing and to say its anything more than what we have would be to disregard that fact. True, pit can combo him very well since he is heavy and big and can arrow him down, but that doesn't mean DK cant ever touch him. He can, and when he does it hurts a lot.

 

[Nikenick]

I agree with everything except these:

Lucas: +1

I think that +2 is too much, he can absorb your arrows and his ground attacks have more range then Pit's. You can gimp him easily and that's why Pit has an advantage but you have to give him some damage before you can get him to use his Up B.

Mario: +1

His cape is quite good in reflecting your arrows and his gimping possibilities are quite underestimated.
I think that +2 is too much because Pit doesn't has that much of an advantage.

Marth: -1

Just avoid the air and you'll be fine. Only use your uair if he's above you. And you can shoot arrows when he tries to space with fairs. His recovery can be gimped by shooting arrows repeatedly. I still think that Pit has a disadvantage because of Marth's range, speed and tippers.

Olimar: -3

Just pure ****, I hate Olimar

Wario: 0

I don't really have problems handling Wario's, he's quite easy to fight imo. He has to approach you because of his lack of a projectile, and he'll mostly approach with an aerial so just powershield and counter. His range is kinda bad as well.

 

[MrEh]

yo the advantage on dk is WAYYYYYY more than +3

....

Wario: 0

I don't really have problems handling Wario's, he's quite easy to fight imo. He has to approach you because of his lack of a projectile, and he'll mostly approach with an aerial so just powershield and counter. His range is kinda bad as well.

Dude, have you ever played a good Wario?

If you shield a lot, that sucker can just go right though it.

 

[Nikenick]

....



Dude, have you ever played a good Wario?

If you shield a lot, that sucker can just go right though it.

I've played against alot of Warios, but maybe just not good ones. I 2 stocked a wario in a Grand Final match >_>
Maybe you're right, but you can also stop his aerial approaches with a simple arrow.

 

[MrEh]

I've played against alot of Warios, but maybe just not good ones. I 2 stocked a wario in a Grand Final match >_>
Maybe you're right, but you can also stop his aerial approaches with a simple arrow.

Wario moves through the air fast. Really fast. He can cross FD with like, 3 jumps. Arrows won't hinder his approach any more then it will Jigglypuff's.

And he could just use his Bike to mow down the arrows.

 

[Nikenick]

Wario moves through the air fast. Really fast. He can cross FD with like, 3 jumps. Arrows won't hinder his approach any more then it will Jigglypuff's.

And he could just use his Bike to mow down the arrows.

Well if the bike's on the ground you can just short hop + arrow to knock him out of his bike.
But it's harder when he uses his bike in the air.
But yeah he's fast, I just don't think that he has an advantage on Pit.

 

[Brinzy]

It shouldn't really benefit her too much. Sheik is harder for Pit to camp than Zelda is despite her reflector and projectile, so its entirely possible for Pit to end up building up a lot more damage against Sheik + Zelda assuming the player switches to Zelda to get the kill.

If Pit decides to just run away and camp to gain percentage then, Sheik's speed would probably be more advantageous in comparison to Zelda's power as far as getting a KO is concerned.

If Pit is going to run away, I want to know how he's going to KO Zelda. I also want to know how Sheik's speed is such an advantage here while Zelda's power is not. We're not fighting you on Bridge of Eldin. Where is Pit going to run to so Zelda can't catch him? He glides quickly, but his running speed and his aerial mobility aren't blindingly fast. Running away only helps when he has a lead, but really... where is he running off to? Maybe you meant he's playing defensive, which is different to me than running away.

You pull an arrow out, and I'll 1) throw Din's at you (or the ground in case I get hit so it'll still detonate), 2) wait a bit and Nayru's, because the reflector lasts a long time and it isn't impossible to react to when the arrows will come out, or 3) powershield the stupid thing. Once I'm close to you with Zelda, I don't see why Pit should still be doing better than her. She generally has more range, more killing power (and no, don't tell me that being lighter than Pit means Pit has more killing power, because Zelda is killing pretty much everyone she faces soon, and her most potent killers that don't involve meteors happen to be the strongest aerials in the game), and, taking Pit's range into consideration, better speed with her attacks.

I know Pit has some quick moves up close, but with dtilt, Dsmash, and Fsmash alone, I can pretty much beat out every other ground move he has. If you decide to start taking to the air against me, well, Usmash, ftilt, and utilt will be there to answer, with more range (enough to hit Pit before he hits her or a trade), a lot more power, and definitely more speed. What significant advantage does Pit have here?

Your aerials are good, but honestly, people (maybe not you guys in general) think that Zelda is going to dog fight you in the air, and they also think that because they can't consistently sweetspot with her in the air, she'll probably never get you. Her aerials are not good for approaching, and... that's about it. Punishment out of shield? Yes, and we know how hard they kill. Forcing an airdodge/other predicted reaction? Yes, because nobody wants to get hit by them. Killing you? Ooooh you betcha. Of all of this, the OoS responses and the killing power are the main things we're looking into for this aspect, since making a mistake is a player's fault, not a character's.

When it comes to edgeguarding, I'd give Pit a slight advantage here. Zelda's recovery is not the best. Pit should wait on the stage and fire arrows to harrass her and then punish when she warps. Going off stage can lose your advantage since she can warp past Pit. Zelda can stop your glide with ease, so just don't glide and you should be ok.

Overall, this fight is pretty much even. CPs will be what will sway this fight.

Also, if Sheik vs. Pit is even, then Sheik/Zelda vs. Pit is easily their advantage. Not only do they cover each other's weaknesses, but they can also CP per stage. I cannot think of a single stage that's bad for Zelda, bad for Sheik, and possibly good for Pit.

I'm not trying to start trouble or anything, but seriously, I looked at the match-ups you guys have listed on the first page and could not stay silent.

 

[Son1x-]

This will never get resolved if it goes on like that. You're saying like its Zelda >>> Pit. Not different much on this side though.

 

[Brinzy]

This will never get resolved if it goes on like that. You're saying like its Zelda >>> Pit. Not different much on this side though.

Maybe I'm saying it like that because I'm on a board full of Pit players who believe Pit > Zelda and I need to state Zelda's advantages instead of trying to name all of Pit's advantages when you guys are sitting right here. In fact, I did name some advantages that I know Pit has over Zelda.

It's still an even match-up, just like I said in that very post. Don't just look at the words I wrote to determine my final output of the fight. Realize why I did what I did.

 

[PKNintendo]

I'm not seeing the issue against Marth. And Pit has a larger advantage against Bowser then +2. And a larger advantage against Dedede then +2.

ZSS should be at least +1.
Ness +2.
Ike is probably as high as +4.
Captain Falcon +5.
Jiggy +4.
Sonic +3.
Wolf +2.
R.O.B. +1 or +2. Never saw the big deal there either.

They aren't that important as differences but I figured I'd give my opinion.

And MK and G&W could be bumped a few more negative points probably. lol

Care to elaborate Super Grimer? Or is it a post and run thing.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Care to elaborate Super Grimer? Or is it a post and run thing.

Looking at the numbers...I assume it's the post and run thing.

 

[Afropony]

Haha this thread brings people from all over the boards!

And don't worry about Undr he'll be back sometime.

 

[Kataefi]

--> Zelda will always have Pit SDIing out of her attacks, she'll always be slow and laggy and she'll always be outcamped. She'll always be fighting in the air as she likes to be beaten around by Pit, she'll always be close to him on the ground so she can get smacked around with his attacks because she's social like that and hates the fact she can make contact with him via long distance ranges. She'll never adapt to a situation and she'll never ever ever land lightning kicks to kill Pit at, what?, less than 80% for a very early stock lead or good comeback.

/10sarcasms >.>

Successor, good post, though you won't get anywhere. Maniac is the be all and end all of matchups regarding Pit, whether counter arguments are presented or not. But really good post nonetheless ^^

 

[yummynbeefy]

i think sonic should be +1 instead of +2 and why is wario unfavorable?

 

[MrEh]

Well if the bike's on the ground you can just short hop + arrow to knock him out of his bike.
But it's harder when he uses his bike in the air.

He can angle his bike upwards, blocking all arrows as he approaches.

But yeah he's fast, I just don't think that he has an advantage on Pit.

Wario can kill at 50%. He's not only fast, he's strong and racks up damage very fast.

i think sonic should be +1 instead of +2 and why is wario unfavorable?

Because Wario is a good character. Har har.

And Pit has a larger advantage against Bowser then +2

*laughs*

Good stuff.

Agreed 100%. I play DarkMusician occasionally, and I know how good Zelda is. 60-40 is just insulting.

Haha this thread brings people from all over the boards!

And for good reason.

 

[Son1x-]

I'm not even quite sure where the numbers are from, lol. We discussed like what... 10 different characters?

 

[Nikenick]

He can angle his bike upwards, blocking all arrows as he approaches.

Meh, true. I think it's better to just powershield his bike instead.

Wario can kill at 50%. He's not only fast, he's strong and racks up damage very fast.

I just played a good Wario, and he was harder to beat then I thought. I think that I underestimated him a bit,-1 sounds fine.

Agreed 100%. I play DarkMusician occasionally, and I know how good Zelda is. 60-40 is just insulting.

I agree with you both as well, I second Zelda and I think she's a highly underestimated character. I think it should be +1 or 55:45 for Pit.