TsNmi
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
- Messages
- 58
And by this you mean grab release?
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Pit Matchup Listing
- Thread starter Coffee™
- Start date
- Status
Yes I meant grab release.
Also been looking at a few of the current matchups and think some of them may be a bit off. I'll list the ones I think should be changed.
MK to 40:60
Wolf to 60:40
Sheik to 60:40
Captain Falcon to 65:35
Ganon to 70:30
GW i'm still kinda on the fence about but I don't think its as bad as 65:35
Discuss?!
yummynbeefy
Smash Champion
R@yvn imma have to disagree with the gw matchup
fighting mks on my level really doesnt feel as bad as people make it to be you just gotta be extra smart with an mk
now gw imma have to say a hard counter on that one 70-30
and also to be honest i think your a little to biased on pits matchups
fighting mks on my level really doesnt feel as bad as people make it to be you just gotta be extra smart with an mk
now gw imma have to say a hard counter on that one 70-30
and also to be honest i think your a little to biased on pits matchups
kown
Smash Lord
GnW counters pit???????
Maybe I am but I have yet to see otherwise for most of these. GW is probably 65:35 but not as bad as 70:30, Pits just need to stop filling his bucket.....
As for the other matchups, feel free to post why you think otherwise.
MrEh
Smash Hero
The bucket should be the least of Pit's problems. Even if he didn't have the bucket, it would still be a huge disadvantage.
Turtle *****.
kown
Smash Lord
turtle is really obvious when its coming...so i dont think it ***** THAT hard. and pit counters GnW so it really doesnt matter.
MrEh
Smash Hero
yummynbeefy
Smash Champion
rayvn really the only thing i have a problem with is sheik 60-40 (its a 50-50 or 55-45 pit favor at teh very best)
the marth matchup feels not so bad and i think i can agree with the 55-45 but leaning moreso towards 60-40
also i think dedede is sill slightly in our favor 10% AT THE VERY VERY BEST
i think its 55-45 our favor not leaning either way
the marth matchup feels not so bad and i think i can agree with the 55-45 but leaning moreso towards 60-40
also i think dedede is sill slightly in our favor 10% AT THE VERY VERY BEST
i think its 55-45 our favor not leaning either way
kown
Smash Lord
okay im going to say one thing..... PIT vs GnW is a 50:50. im usually joking but this time im serious.
EDITT: Im not joking despite all my previous posts.....
EDITT: Im not joking despite all my previous posts.....
KY_Des
Smash Ace
That matchup is 60:40 G&W adv at the very least. I'm leaning towards 70:30, but I find 65:35 reasonable. Go play UTD Zac more.
And Marth is 60:40, Marth's advantage. Fair and dancing blade... that's pretty much it.
I'm cool with everything else tho... I think.
kown
Smash Lord
I just played utd zac two days ago in friendlies...IN FRIENdLIES.... I beat him majority of the times we played gnw vs pit... Even zac agrees that the matchup is over rated for gnw.. BAM!!!
I kinda agree with Kown, the G&W matchup is definitely overrated in favor of G&W. Every G&W I've played I've held my own against and even beat some of them and the majority of them that I've talked to said the matchup feels even or maybe 55:45 in G&W's favor at most, due to his ability to kill Pit so early if the Pit player messes up.
Admiral Pit
Smash Hero
I still question Zelda. I know we can gimp her easily and her weakspot is us being under her for U-airs and such, but she still has longer range, Din's Fire vs our glide recovery, Usmash and U-tilt to shut down all of our areial approches.
I still say it's 50-50 Even with Zelda... She's trouble! However, if i was to put it in one of their favors, it's basically based on the stages, but probably Pit, yet, stages can change the tide of this matchup easily, even in the neutrals.
I still say it's 50-50 Even with Zelda... She's trouble! However, if i was to put it in one of their favors, it's basically based on the stages, but probably Pit, yet, stages can change the tide of this matchup easily, even in the neutrals.
dextasmurf
Smash Lord
def not 55:45 and def not overratted imo... G&W takes care of Pits.....EVERYTHING...Arrows get bucketed, nair gets turtled, dair gets fish bowl, and close range gets a spammy downsmash....
kown
Smash Lord
nope your wrong..accept it and move on.
yummynbeefy
Smash Champion
i dunno maybe im just not familiar with the GnW matchup
what ill do sometimes is i will fill his bucket on purpose so he cant bucket break making killing him quite a bit easier but with a full bucket you need to be on your guard because he can whip it out any time he wants
not a 50-50 by any stretch
what ill do sometimes is i will fill his bucket on purpose so he cant bucket break making killing him quite a bit easier but with a full bucket you need to be on your guard because he can whip it out any time he wants
not a 50-50 by any stretch
kown
Smash Lord
if you lack GnW practice...how can you correctly rate the matchup?
Don't arrow when they'll get bucketed then. On average vs G&W in a 3 stock match he'll bucket two of my arrows and thats if he's lucky. I seriously dont remember the last time I actually filled up a bucket.
You shouldn't be Nairing much in this matchup anyway.
Dair will trade hits with fish bowl and fish bowl is multihit so you win?
Shield?
KY_Des
Smash Ace
I jus got told... Oh SNAP!!!
Well I guess I know what matchup I'll be working on lol.
I'm guessing Dsmash would be the best kill move in this matchup considering the angle and G&W's bucket braking, correct?
I couldn't even begin to tell you matchup specifics against Zelda....
Just.... Do stuff... yea
kown
Smash Lord
^ dont worry....from what i hear...your better at the marth and meta matchups.
DominusHaven
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2008
- Messages
- 74
I've been recently wanting to question the Falco match up... I've never really had much of a problem with it, and I've even fought pretty good one's, I just wanted to know the major points besides the camping and CG that Falco really has over Pit.
Nothing really besides that. Thats why its listed as a small adv for him, nothing major. You could say its 50:50.
As for G&W I'm putting that at 60:40 his favor to be compliant with the actual matchup thread. I still think personally its even but I'm listing it as the boards general consensus.
Updated OP
G&W from -3 to -2
Wolf from +1 to +2
Shiek from +1 to +2
Pikachu from 0 to +1 in compliance with their matchup thread.
goodkid
Smash Lord
Zelda vs Pit is 50:50 IMO. Zelda's up-smash & tilts shut-down Pit's aerial approaches. Din's can beat out Pit's Down-B, but this situation shouldn't come up often. Zelda's can kill Pit quicker, but not easier. Her Smashes out range Pit's. Oh & Up-Smash is easier to get out of w/ Pit.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Zelda sucks. There's no reason why Pit should lose. Seriously.
Admiral Pit
Smash Hero
The type of bad comments i see here ruins our reputation.
Pit's 50-50 with Zelda, no higher, no lower, no exceptions! (different stages can change the matchup, whatsoever).
I've seconded Zelda myself and know what she can do to Pit, and Vice Versa.
Simply taken that Pit shouldnt approach Zelda from above, as Zelda should approach Pit from above either, though Zelda's better at that category.
Pit's 50-50 with Zelda, no higher, no lower, no exceptions! (different stages can change the matchup, whatsoever).
I've seconded Zelda myself and know what she can do to Pit, and Vice Versa.
Simply taken that Pit shouldnt approach Zelda from above, as Zelda should approach Pit from above either, though Zelda's better at that category.
oathkeeper005
Smash Cadet
MrEh
Smash Hero
Played any good Zeldas with Pit?
They give Pit more of an edge. The only good counterpick that Zelda has is Mansion. And provided you're intelligent enough to ban that, Zelda has no good stage choice. (Mansion is usually banned anyways)
Seriously, Zelda is bad. I doubt it's even, it's probably in Pit's favor. Not majorly, but he still wins. People have a knack for thinking Zelda is a much better character then she really is. She seems decent when you only use her a little but, but if you main her and go to tournaments, you realize that she is soooo bad. Hell, even DM admits it, and he's probably the best Zelda in the nation.
Nikenick
Smash Journeyman
Why is Pit:Wolf 60:40? I think that this matchup is even. Could you explain what gives us such a big advantage? It can be me screwing up with the matchup, but Wolves give me just as much trouble as Falcos.
Admiral Pit
Smash Hero
Take note that Zelda shuts out Pit's gliding with Din's Fire, and Pit's aerial approaches with U-smash and U-tilt, even though Pit can take advantage after taking Zelda to the air.
Also, YI (brawl) is Pit's worst neutral, the only one that keeps him from gliding under the stage, and shy guys interferring with Pit's arrows.
I still see this as a 50-50 matchup. However, if I was ever to lean towards a char, it would be Pit, though, with his good edgeguarding against her poor limited recovery, and can put Zelda in a pressured situation with his quicker attacks when doing it correctly.
I do find Wolf to be 50-50 with Pit, too, but not as bad as Falco. At least we can CG Wolf if we do it fast enough, and his recovery sucks. Be cautious of Wolf B-airs, for it's more important to a good Wolf than Smashes are. Gimping Wolf should be our easy part after getting him off the ledge.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Din's Fire is such a crappy projectile that there's no reason why you should get hit by it. I play the best Zelda player in the nation, and I rarely get hit by it. And I use Bowser.
Unless you mean gliding under the stage or something. In that case, then yeah, Din's will win.
Zelda will never use a Utilt to block approaches. It's horribly slow and very punishable if it misses.
Yes, Usmash can stop aerial approaches, but that's applicable in every matchup, even against MK. You have arrows. You can just camp her hard and force her to approach. And Zelda can't just approach with a Usmash against a grounded opponent. That thing is hella punishable when you shield it.
You do know that Yoshi's Island is Zelda's worst neutral as well right? The uneven stage screws with her spacing, and the lip under the ledge stops her recovery from below. Pretty much every Zelda main HATES that stage, and for good reason.
Pit has an advantage (55-45 or 60-40) simply because he forces Zelda to approach and has more options then she does. Pit actually has a usable air game, unlike Zelda's, which is pretty much just tailored towards killing things and not much else.
Zelda is such a predictable character. When most of your game involves smashing and hoping your opponent runs into it, you know that character must be bad.
And no, I'm not underestimating Zelda either. She's not trash, but quite honestly, she's just no good against anyone who can camp her.
oathkeeper005
Smash Cadet
how does Pit force zelda to approach, if its a game of distance, zelda forces Pit in most situations. Pit Cannot reflect fireballs, he can shoot an arrow (possibly two on a huge stage) while Zelda has two options, reflect or Fireball. Fireballs wont stop for zelda getting hit and the only real options pit has is dodge or shield, and the shield can only last so long.
MrEh, do you even play pit?
MrEh, do you even play pit?
MrEh
Smash Hero
Pit fires 2 arrows in the time it takes Zelda to fire Dins. How does that force him to approach? It doesn't.
He doesn't have to reflect them. If the two characters decide to camp eachother, Zelda will take more damage. Zelda's reflector is very punishable and very bad. You can literally jump and shoot arrows at her, and she's forced to approach. It doesn't matter if she can reflect an arrow every now and then. You'll still put her in a disadvantageous situation.
Zelda can't shoot dins when she's being hit by arrows. And your shield will NEVER deplete. Even if you have to shield a Din's every now and then, you still shoot arrows right back. And Zelda can't shoot din's when she gets hit.
Honestly, Zelda has such huge problems with camping. Her reflector is terrible at protecting her. People immediately think that because she has a reflector, she's immune to camping.
oathkeeper005
Smash Cadet
In the end it doesn't matter because Neither character has much to gain from camping in this match up. Camping Is not the answer to this match up, Spacing is.
BTW Just because Pit can force somone to aproach doesn tmean He wins.
It a 50-50 Not anything more or less.
MrEh
Smash Hero
You clearly have no idea how Zelda works. No offense.
If Zelda has to approach, she's screwed. Her approach options are so horrible. She has one of the worst approaches in the game.
A laggy reflector discouraging arrow usage? :/
Just jump in the air and shoot arrows. Her reflector utterly fails for anything that isn't reflecting a quick projectile every now and then or to punish rolls. To use it as a defense against a projectile spam is suicide, especially against one of the campiest characters in the game.
Learn to shield. If you hit Zelda with an arrow when she's firing Din's, it explodes in a set amount of time. She loses the ability to release it when she wants. It's obscenely easy to shield dins anyway. And once you shield it, you can fire more arrows.
Any character with a fast projectile is immune to dins in a camping war.
Read above. If you hit her, she cannot explode dins whenever she wants, since it will auto explode. Timing isn't an issue, the arrows simply shut down her ability to use Dins.
Explain.
KY_Des
Smash Ace
I've been playin that matchup lately. The Zelda I've been playing isn't all that good, but from just playing it and analyzing, I'd say it's in Pit's favor tho not by much. Only some of her moves out range Pit, and just barely. Her spacing takes far too much time in comparison to Pit's in order for that to be a big advantage. Pit also kinda wrecks her **** off stage. If Pit recovers low and holds out MS, there isn't much she can do to edgeguard.
And even tho Zelda has all that kill power, she's light and floaty so Pit doesnt have much trouble killing her either. I'd say 55:45 Pit simply bc Zelda's punishment hurts more than Pit's do. I haven't tried it, but I'm pretty sure she fails to Pit's ledge camp too.
Adm: Wolf is definitely 60:40. He can't do anything about uair, you CG him to over 40, and he gets worked pretty hard offstage. Just dont fall for dsmash and fsmash set ups, and dont shoot yourself.
And even tho Zelda has all that kill power, she's light and floaty so Pit doesnt have much trouble killing her either. I'd say 55:45 Pit simply bc Zelda's punishment hurts more than Pit's do. I haven't tried it, but I'm pretty sure she fails to Pit's ledge camp too.
Adm: Wolf is definitely 60:40. He can't do anything about uair, you CG him to over 40, and he gets worked pretty hard offstage. Just dont fall for dsmash and fsmash set ups, and dont shoot yourself.
Admiral Pit
Smash Hero
Wolf's B-air is our practical biggest threat from him, and timely wolf can use reflector to smack us away from our CGs, should either we Pits CG slowly, or if the Wolf DIs well and uses reflector at the moment he's allowed to.
The offstage thing is correct, we do really well against him. U-air can either be airdodged, considering it being timely, or a Wolf can try to fastfall, for his falling speed is faster than ours, and could probably use reflector, yet I havent seen this, but i can assume it.
I'll be considering 50-50 even, yet I would lean towards Pit having the advantage if I had to choose.
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