Peach winning a big tournament. Lets end this.

[Dark.Pch]

So last night I got into a debate with a few N.Y people and M2K about Peach winning tournaments. The debate starts in here and its about three pages long. But the post are easy to get through and move on. I'll take about 5 mins to read all three pages.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=170894&page=53

I shared my opinion that Peach could not win a big tournament. And my reason for it. But M2K and a few others thinks it is possible. To me if she was not winning any big ones in melee, There be no chance in brawl.

But I am willing to turn the other cheek about his and see if this can actually be pulled off. On the EC I explained what I have to go through to do it. I don't know about the WC. Talk to Edrees.

But M2K said that Me, Edrees and maybe Azen should get together and talk about this. Put our heads together and Think of a way to make this happen. We are gonna talk strat, character match ups and the players behind these high tiers.

If you guys have anything you wanna share or add, bring it. This is something for all Peach mains to know. Peach needs to win a big tournament. Tired of these same characters all the time winning them. Time for a change. You heard Obama speak. One of us is gonna pull this off. So Far Edrees has come the the closest to that. I'm winning to help boost this man up for winning a big tournament on the WC. And I am determind to do it here on the EC now if I can.

Let's freaking end these panzys and give her a win.

 

[4% APR]

Vidjo won an average sized tourney recently with peach. I think he 3-0'd overswarm or something in the finals.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I personally could see Peach winning a big tournament with my current knowledge on the matter

I've said this before (probably) and I'll say it again - Peach has no horribly bad match ups. Having said that...she doesn't have very many horribly good match ups. The large majority of match ups for Peach are all even/near even. Peach players have to work extra hard to make sure they win

Her only weakness that really sticks out is her KO power. She does well in just about all other aspects of combat

 

[BentoBox]

Excel Zeroooooo

 

[Morrigan]

To me if she was not winning any big ones in melee, There be no chance in brawl.

Why do you think that? Look at Game and watch.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Why do you think that? Look at Game and watch.

This

We aren't playing the same game. And a lot of people forget that

Peach is not Sheik or Captain Falcon. She's not some Melee character trying to play by Brawl rules. She is a Brawl character playing by Brawl rules. She have similar properties but she's a very different character

Wasn't Peach one of the top characters in Melee anyway...?

 

[Razmakazi]

huuuge tourney on jan 17th-18th out here. end it there. ;D

 

[Dark.Pch]

Why do you think that? Look at Game and watch.

He went from low tier to top/broken tier. Peach went from top tier to mid. This is not saying anything.

huuuge tourney on jan 17th-18th out here. end it there. ;D

Get Edrees on the line now.

 

[Iwan]

This

We aren't playing the same game. And a lot of people forget that

Peach is not Sheik or Captain Falcon. She's not some Melee character trying to play by Brawl rules. She is a Brawl character playing by Brawl rules. She have similar properties but she's a very different character

Wasn't Peach one of the top characters in Melee anyway...?

Peach was ridiculously good in melee, and that's what dark's saying; In comparison to both character attributes (melee peach VS brawl peach) AND in comparison to the rest of the cast (peach match ups in melee VS peach match ups in brawl), peach has been nerfed in brawl.

If a better character, in terms of attributes and in terms of comparison to the rest of the cast, couldn't win in melee....then her chances of winning in brawl are less.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I believe I could easily win a big tournament with Peach, the chance is there. It's just a .0004% chance because I need 9 stitchfaces each match (3 per stock) and I"m set. Otherwise, I do believe she's got the potential to place top 5, but first, no. A peach at that level is not going to beat a metaknight or game and watch or falco at that level (she can beat snake, ddd,. marth, etc at top levels though)

If we find a way to land a gauranteed upsmash out of some combo, my opinion would change though. She just lacks the killing move.

But just because I don't think she can get first doesn't mean I don't try getting first at each tournament. Lots of times I get a good feeling that I'm going to win the tourney, but I have trouble killing so I can't get there

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

That's because your Fair is more stale than Falco's Bread jokes

<3 you Edreese

Could someone just answer me this quick question. Does every attack, including grabs have IASA frames?

 

[BentoBox]

Oops wrong thread

 

[Dark.Pch]

I believe I could easily win a big tournament with Peach, the chance is there. It's just a .0004% chance because I need 9 stitchfaces each match (3 per stock) and I"m set. Otherwise, I do believe she's got the potential to place top 5, but first, no. A peach at that level is not going to beat a metaknight or game and watch or falco at that level (she can beat snake, ddd,. marth, etc at top levels though)

If we find a way to land a gauranteed upsmash out of some combo, my opinion would change though. She just lacks the killing move.

But just because I don't think she can get first doesn't mean I don't try getting first at each tournament. Lots of times I get a good feeling that I'm going to win the tourney, but I have trouble killing so I can't get there

The only thing that has become a problem is for her to kill. I was thinking about this last nite and think that at some points, we might have to reserve to camping. The average amount of damage you can get off a turnip when abused is like around 5% And this is just with regular turnips. 2 hits with a turnip lead to 10% at least. And thats good. 10% can lead to alot. And everytime you use a move, your attack powerfrom other moves that are weak already. goes up. (This does not include tossing a turnip). This is one reason why I am a defensive Peach player.

You can also regain power of your moves by grabbing your enemy and hitting them alot. one kick from a grab, brings the power of your attacks up a lil, and hopefully for a full buff.

Could someone just answer me this quick question. Does every attack, including grabs have IASA frames?

I have forgotten what IASA means.Y

 

[Rykoshet]

To answer your question, I know in the case of some characters, everything, including grabs and throws, have IASA frames. The question is whether or not it's enough frames to matter.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Interesting...

You see, I've been messing around with Peach's moves and I noticed that Peach's U throw actually does 2 hits

The first hit is when she puts the opponent above her head and presses her hands against them. This does 2% damage. When they are initially launched up, this does the remaining 6% damage. Damage ratios taken in Training mode

My plan was to find IASA frames on the first hit so she could do something crazy like an Up Smash...but so far, no luck

 

[Rykoshet]

That's because the iasa is likely at the end of the full hit, so in this case you cant cancel in the middle of a move. There's a difference between IASA and being able to just flat out cancel a move.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Meh I tried. Anything to solve her KO issue. Thanks

 

[Eddie G]

She definitely has the potential. I'm sure You, I, excel, Sky, Niko, basically whoever seriously mains Peach is trying their very best to make this happen.

I vote major props to whoever can do it first. ^.^

And answer my PM Dark... XP

 

[goodkid]

I truly think Peach can win a major tournament. Now I haven't been to a tourney, but I'm one of those guys that think anyone can do & win anything. She's much better equipped than most of mid & low tier. What we need to do is learn our match-ups which are all pretty even, and find counter-picks that fit Peach & our individual playstyles. If Peach wants to win, the player needs to be smart like Dark.Pch or Edress. The Peach also has to have a great attitude, since thats 30% of the game.

What we really need to incorporate into our play is at least (2) side-Bs a stock. Thats 30%!!! Plus the any peachy combo thats at least 30-40%. We should learn to predict better & use toad!!! which is like 10-17%We would need good edgeguarding/hogging for some KOs.

I don't know why you guys are doubting Peach? Maybe its because I just am inexperienced w/ tournies, but how is it not possible for Peach to win!? Also her chances would increase if we had a secondary to cover her harder match-ups, but she could probably alone.

 

[Razmakazi]

I truly think Peach can win a major tournament. Now I haven't been to a tourney, but I'm one of those guys that think anyone can do & win anything. She's much better equipped than most of mid & low tier. What we need to do is learn our match-ups which are all pretty even, and find counter-picks that fit Peach & our individual playstyles. If Peach wants to win, the player needs to be smart like Dark.Pch or Edress. The Peach also has to have a great attitude, since thats 30% of the game.

What we really need to incorporate into our play is at least (2) side-Bs a stock. Thats 30%!!! Plus the any peachy combo thats at least 30-40%. We should learn to predict better & use toad!!! which is like 10-17%We would need good edgeguarding/hogging for some KOs.

I don't know why you guys are doubting Peach? Maybe its because I just am inexperienced w/ tournies, but how is it not possible for Peach to win!? Also her chances would increase if we had a secondary to cover her harder match-ups, but she could probably alone.

I love Peach Bombers but 2 per stock? That's ******** unless your opponent doesn't know how to shield, run back, spot dodge, etc. It's pretty unsafe a lot of the time. And how is it not possible for Peach to win? Equally/Higher skilled players running around w/ broken characters and good DI. Peach obv isn't the best in the game so obv it's harder to win w/ her.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

There's plenty of ways to land Side B's. You get someone as they land when they try to air dodge. If you predict someone will roll. If you dash left than do it right. Lots and lots of ways to set up and juke for it. I land about 5 a stock against diddy because its gauranteed if he trips on a banana and you do it instantly.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Toad will only get you so far. There are plenty of times where you can use Toad to get opponents off your back but you're horribly vunerable if it doesn't work

Still...it should be used more sometimes >.>

 

[Niko_K]

Turn around F-Tilt and Jab are amazing too gaiz.

 

[Peachkid]

pssst.....pillaring is pretty sexy too.

 

[BentoBox]

Sideways pillar ftw.

 

[Niko_K]

Pillar don exits...

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

[/QUOTE]

Yes it's yours Niko. But this **** is win

 

[Dark.Pch]

All this is not gonna help at all. We need to take it one thing at a time if you want this to ever happen. First thing is her problem with killing. This hurts her. So here is what I said before.

The only thing that has become a problem is for her to kill. I was thinking about this last nite and think that at some points, we might have to reserve to camping. The average amount of damage you can get off a turnip when abused is like around 5% And this is just with regular turnips. 2 hits with a turnip lead to 10% at least. And thats good. 10% can lead to alot. And everytime you use a move, your attack powerfrom other moves that are weak already. goes up. (This does not include tossing a turnip). This is one reason why I am a defensive Peach player.

You can also regain power of your moves by grabbing your enemy and hitting them alot. one kick from a grab, brings the power of your attacks up a lil, and hopefully for a full buff.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

If camping will remove the staleness of our Fair, I'm all for it. Turnips are too good anyway

Also, what do we consider viable killing moves?

 

[Dark.Pch]

- Fair
- Bair
- Nair
- Uair
- Dair (% has to be quite high. Best to catch them in the air with it to make it a lil easier to kill with)
- Utilt
- Ftilt
- Dtilt (% has to be quite high)
- Fsmash
- F-B
-Up-B (% has to be pretty high. But this type of task can be easier if you do it high in the air or on a platform)
- Usmash (I love this move to death)
- Turnips(Yes I am serious....turnips)
- Toad (Yes......toad, but the % of the enemy has to be pretty darn high and it depends on character and stage.)

Now remember that this all depends on:
- How many times you used the attack
- Stage
- character you are playing
- the % or the enemy
- What part of the stage you are on when you unleashed the attack.

 

[hova]

nair out of shield is great for catching people in bad DI especially when they're coming off the ledge. sweetspot bair is just amazing and you can space it safely in most match ups

refreshing kill moves should be no problem with turnips, slap, dair and grabs. i personally don't see the big issue. you know she can't kill early, so just play safe and wait for your opportunity... don't try to force it.

trying to force a kill with Peach is futile and will probably get you wrecked. just play safe and take what is available even if you have to wait until ftilt kills... but people will always leave themselves open for either a fair, bair, nair or fsmash

also going after people off the ledge is a huge way to compensate for weak killing power. throw a turnip to force a dodge or aerial and punish with a nair

another strength that compensate for her kill power is the ability to rack up damage. sure a DDD may have to be over 185 for a kill, but it's so easy to get him to that point; more pressure and more follow up from connected hits. No more two/three hit combos and then backing away to pull a turnip or do some stupid float approach

floating approach is bad in general

Peach has the ability to hunt an opponent down, once you land a hit you can follow up with so many different moves. most characters have a predictable defense when being knocked around and a ton of people sidestep. floated dair is great to punish a panicked MK that sidesteps to dsmash in a attempt to stop the ****

i'm glad people are actually considering how to win tournies instead of who is the best peach main



it's **** near impossible to improve ones style and understand other's views over the net, but I'm people are into it... maybe i'll try to record some ****

 

[Eddie G]

Very informative bit there Hova. Good stuff. ^.^

 

[PaintedGhost]

I think it's possible. Peach's main problem is killing, who knows what kind of shenanigan-setups we'll create in the future.

 

[g-regulate]

****ing peach mains... blaming their problems on their character.....

 

[Master Peach]

I believe without a doubt that Peach can win a Big Tournament.

You guys know me. I stand behind what I say.

I know one of us can pull this off. It is very possible, as long as you have the determination for it anything is possible!

We're a community. We must work together.

 

[deepseadiva]

If there's one character you could ever get lucky with, it would be Peach. Pull some bombs, stitchies, even swords, and on a good day Peach could **** some major hiney.

And maybe some skill.

 

[PaintedGhost]

I believe without a doubt that Peach can win a Big Tournament.

You guys know me. I stand behind what I say.

I know one of us can pull this off. It is very possible, as long as you have the determination for it anything is possible!

We're a community. We must work together.

If there's one character you could ever get lucky with, it would be Peach. Pull some bombs, stitchies, even swords, and on a good day Peach could **** some major hiney.

And maybe some skill.

Captain falco would like a word : YEHZZ

 

[Blad01]

He guys don't lose hope. The guy who's dominating France rankings mains Peach, and he has changed my mind about her I'm not sure he could win a big tournament (like a big European Tournament with americans), but that's possible. The only thing he lacks of is training against good MK, because there aren't any here. He seconds Marth by the way.

Some vids of him : http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=209045.

Tell me what you think

 

[Dark.Pch]

****ing peach mains... blaming their problems on their character.....

Says the Snake main. You wanna pick up Peach and give it a try?.......nuff said.

He guys don't lose hope. The guy who's dominating France rankings mains Peach, and he has changed my mind about her I'm not sure he could win a big tournament (like a big European Tournament with americans), but that's possible. The only thing he lacks of is training against good MK, because there aren't any here. He seconds Marth by the way.

Some vids of him : http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=209045.

Tell me what you think

He is not too bad

 

[<π]

what about gimp kills with like weak nairs, weak bairs, dairs, and turnips? and similar to tether characters invincibility refreshes on the edge peach can float and get hers back just as fast.

I've had success against.

Also get fair fresh, lol. after the get to 100 stop using it switch to spaced turnips and grab ->pummel->relaease slap stuff.