Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Anyways, why have all the ratios dropped? Peach is not that bad of a character, guys, and most of her matchups are even or in her favor. She has about 7 or 8 that are in her disadvantage, and only about 3 or 4 of those are significantly difficult (Snake, Falco, MK, and maybe Marth or Toon Link). She actually has pretty good matchups...

Currently, she has 9 match ups that are disadvantages, 4 of which are slight disadvantages (45-55)

I buffed Charizards and Ganondorf's ratios, the rest have dropped because currently, I don't think Peach's performance in tourneys is correlating with her old MU's - I felt some of the old ratios were a bit optimistic. Some of the ratios were also outdated. She still has 20 MU's in her advantage, 6 of which are slight advantages (55-45) and 10 even MU's

Ok, so some changes have been made!
I'm only concentrating on ratios atm becuase the OP is absolutely ridiculously huge
Assume the number is the ratio dictating with anything below 50 being a disadvantage and anything above 50 being an advantage
Things that have changed are:

Charizard - 45 to 50
Diddy - 55 to 50
Ganon - 65 to 70
IC's - 60 to 55
Ike - 60 to 55
DeDeDe - 50 to 45
Pit - 55 to 50
Sonic - 65 to 60
TL - 45 to 40
Wolf - 50 to 45

This is a WIP guys so let me know if you're unhappy with anything or if I've got something wrong let me know. I'll start purging the quotes section and write ups of any outdated info

I want to start trying to purge the write ups as well but I have exams all this week so I can't do it atm. I'll get on it
If you disagree with the changes and you've got evidence to back up why, I will be more than happy to change them again

 

[Reizilla]

What high tier is Peach a good secondary for?

 

[Airgemini]

Diddy/ICs mainly come to mind.

 

[deepseadiva]

I feel we're falling into the Peach anti-hype.

Like, why did the Pit match-up suddenly get worse? Not to say I thought it was good originally, it's just I don't see why it's being changed now. Same for the rest of the characters.

Peach hasn't gotten worse. It'd be more accurate to say everyone else got better, but for a lot of these characters, we haven't seen the match-up happen for a long time.

There are no more IC players. When have any of us played Gnes? Koolaid? X?

A couple of these could be justified for a drop (The Peach Main vs Kain match-up I think is in the red so far), but I don't I agree with changing a match-up every time one of us loses. I'd like to see Ill take another shot versus San. Nicole versus Coney. I just feel the it's becoming a little knee-jerky.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

A major reason the MU's were changed now is because I never got round to doing it earlier
Tbh, a lot of these changes were made to see how people would react - there has been a lot of 'anti Peach' hype and I wanted to see whether you Peach's agreed with it or not

Like I said, it's a WIP. Ganon, DeDeDe, IC's, TL and Wolf's changes were all justifiable due to recent gameplay/MU discussions

Charizard was no way our disadvantage so I wanted it to be put as even for the time being. No one has played Diddy for ages. Ike/Sonic ratios didn't match up to the opposing opinion. Pit...I think Illmatic has played Pit recently but I never understood why it was our advantage and I seem to remember the opposition claiming it was even


If people could give me there ratios and have evidence/sets/results to back it up, I would be more than happy to change them back. I want to think I'm wrong about my changes (infact I think I am because I think Peach is much better than the ridiculous haters are making out) but I can't change them back without some solid evidence

 

[z00ted]

For Pit it definitely depends on the LGL or even if the specific ledge grab rule.

If there is no LGL it's easily 30:70.

 

[gantrain05]

i dunno...........i never run into any diddy or wario or IC mains anymore......which makes me pretty sad cuz i **** in those MU's. i don't think tho, with pit with no lgl that its 30-70, i can agree its annoying, but its not 100 percent unbeatable, but im just speaking my mind, as i have played um......2 pit mains total in the history of brawls release and neither of them abused the ledge grab.

 

[z00ted]

it's probably worse than 30:70

it's like playing a metaknight without a ledge grab rule - except the metaknight has a projectile.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

So what do people want me to do? Put the ratios back to what they were?

I need feedback please and not just from one person - I need as many people as possible...especially those against the changes

 

[gantrain05]

so then take pit to rainbow cruise? lol i dunno, im sure theres plenty of stage CP's/strategies to get around his ledge camping.

 

[z00ted]

ok you take pit to rainbow cruise, sweet you won one match GL on his counterpick.

 

[gantrain05]

so don't flake out and win on the neutral

 

[Meru.]

So what do people want me to do? Put the ratios back to what they were?

I need feedback please and not just from one person - I need as many people as possible...especially those against the changes

Just remove them or rename them with slight/normal/solid advantage cause lately Im really getting fed up with ratios, especially the incredibly overused 55-45 one. We should focus more on the write ups which are much more important and I'll definitely help you with that. Actually I should have made them already but I didnt know people needed me to so I didnt bother with it. Unfortunayely Im not having internet for a month so that will have to wait for me (typung this on my phone).

 

[z00ted]

so don't flake out and win on the neutral

you can't attack him on any neutrals.

 

[Nicole]

planking shouldnt be taken into account for these matchup ratios. or else every character in the game besides mk and gw would lose 20:80 to mk.

assume there is a 35 lgl

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

planking shouldnt be taken into account for these matchup ratios. or else every character in the game besides mk and gw would lose 20:80 to mk.

assume there is a 35 lgl

Yea this - the MK MU would be even worse if there wasn't a LGL in place and he'd be awful for everyone as Nicole said

How many tournaments use LGL limits anyway? Is it just big tournaments or do smaller tournaments used them aswell?

 

[z00ted]

ever since SiiS im taking into consideration LGL.

without LGL Pit is like 55:45 our favor.

 

[Nicole]

while that isnt a bad idea things like SIIS (a 100+ man tournament with no ledgegrab limit) reeeeaally should not have happened, and hopefully shouldn't happen again.

the people involved with running the tournament (not necessarily the TOs) are a little silly in that area of the MW when it comes to PLAYING THE GAME AS IT WAS MEANT TO BE PLAYED (OMG READ ****ING SIRLIN AND STICK TO EVERYTHING HE SAYS CAUSE HE IS OUR GOD), some of them are of the opinion that since we didn't ban MK that anything that results from not banning him is just fine and shouldnt be tampered with, others are of the opinion that if your character cant handle planking (and so few can) that you should pick one of the 3 chars that can do something about it.

even so, i doubt they will run another SIIS that gets that good of attendance without a LGL. unless the bbr ruleset committee (which is absolutely ******** and many bbr members have absolutely no input in because all of the members were handpicked by someone who wants to play brawl the way he thinks it is best instead of caring what is best for the community) decides that there shouldn't be a LGL. which i really hope doesnt happen. if it does, we can just list 20:80 for MK and 30:70 for ROB, Pit, and Marth when it does.

/rant about dumb ****

@rick, almost all tournaments (nationals or otherwise) i attend have an LGL of some kind. it is my impression that EC typically has a LGL in place as well, i'm not sure on that though.

 

[gantrain05]

joker's has no LGL, but we are all super cool and wouldn't ever gay anyone like that anyway. we just would rather play a game where one opponent fights another opponent, not, stand there while the other guy hops off and on a ledge for 8 minutes and that somehow dictates a win lol.

 

[Reizilla]

while that isnt a bad idea things like SIIS (a 100+ man tournament with no ledgegrab limit) reeeeaally should not have happened, and hopefully shouldn't happen again.

the people involved with running the tournament (not necessarily the TOs) are a little silly in that area of the MW when it comes to PLAYING THE GAME AS IT WAS MEANT TO BE PLAYED (OMG READ ****ING SIRLIN AND STICK TO EVERYTHING HE SAYS CAUSE HE IS OUR GOD), some of them are of the opinion that since we didn't ban MK that anything that results from not banning him is just fine and shouldnt be tampered with, others are of the opinion that if your character cant handle planking (and so few can) that you should pick one of the 3 chars that can do something about it.

even so, i doubt they will run another SIIS that gets that good of attendance without a LGL. unless the bbr ruleset committee (which is absolutely ******** and many bbr members have absolutely no input in because all of the members were handpicked by someone who wants to play brawl the way he thinks it is best instead of caring what is best for the community) decides that there shouldn't be a LGL. which i really hope doesnt happen. if it does, we can just list 20:80 for MK and 30:70 for ROB, Pit, and Marth when it does.

/rant about dumb ****

@rick, almost all tournaments (nationals or otherwise) i attend have an LGL of some kind. it is my impression that EC typically has a LGL in place as well, i'm not sure on that though.

Someone's mad they have no say.

Spoiler

me.

 

[Meru.]

Yea this - the MK MU would be even worse if there wasn't a LGL in place and he'd be awful for everyone as Nicole said

How many tournaments use LGL limits anyway? Is it just big tournaments or do smaller tournaments used them aswell?

Seriously they even have LGLs here even though planking rarely occurs XD.

I have never played a planking Pit before. Dark made a thread about Pit's planking some time ago and things didnt seem too bad but idk. Without planking we're definitely slightlyl advantaged though.

 

[SxK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G9HCiZ1CoY
Can you guys critique my video. Its Vs. The Real Ryo...
P.S. can you do it on the actual video, not here.

 

[z00ted]

I know that matchup very well.

I play with Xyro all the time.

If I know you will be coming back to this site / the peach boards, I will gladly help you out with the matchup and what to do in it.

Post it in the Peach Video Archive and I will help you out.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G9HCiZ1CoY
Can you guys critique my video. Its Vs. The Real Ryo...
P.S. can you do it on the actual video, not here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G9HCiZ1CoY#t=28s

What the devil was that??

It almost looked like you did a sliding Fair to airdodge off the platform...I wonder if you were still suffering knockback from Samus' Bair


Don't have a Youtube account yet but, pull a Turnip at least once in a while Turnipless Peach's make me cry at night
There were lots of other stuff but Illmatic knows Samus very well so...gogo a Gogomatic

 

[z00ted]

I'll help him out later - I have a youtube account, but I don't want to write a HUGE wall of text.

Yeah Rick, what the HELL was that?

If he wasn't suffering from Samus' bair :

-goes to test.

 

[SxK]

I've only been playing peach a week... I know that turnips are key to peach success... I will get there.

 

[¿Qué?]

I've only been playing peach a week... I know that turnips are key to peach success... I will get there.

Don't worry, you're getting there.

I really love that your Peach is VERY grounded and I see a lot of jabs into Dash attack combos. It's a very good start. Keep it up.

 

[SxK]

I know that matchup very well.

I play with Xyro all the time.

If I know you will be coming back to this site / the peach boards, I will gladly help you out with the matchup and what to do in it.

Post it in the Peach Video Archive and I will help you out.

Who are your referring to... Xryo?

 

[z00ted]

Yeah, I play with him all the time. (Best Samus)

I'm going to write a lot of stuff to help you out with tonight / tomorrow in the video critique thread.

 

[Thebest1pj]

Yeah, I play with him all the time. (Best Samus)

I'm going to write a lot of stuff to help you out with tonight / tomorrow in the video critique thread.

noids better tho

 

[gantrain05]

u just need to stop jumping at samus and powershield his Zair, and pull more turnips

 

[Meru.]

his Zair

Oooooh?

 

[gantrain05]

Oooooh?

in reference to the player, not the character. even then he/she could be female lol.

 

[Brawlin]

Just a question about Falco. Can't Peach just run towards him while powershielding his lasers. Floating or being in the air period while approaching him obviously is bad. But, I was just wondering.

 

[¿Qué?]

Just a question about Falco. Can't Peach just run towards him while powershielding his lasers. Floating or being in the air period while approaching him obviously is bad. But, I was just wondering.

His ground game is way surperior to ours. His jabs and tilts out space us, as well as his downB.

You need to powershiled everything, including the lasers to get close to him.

 

[Razmakazi]

noids better tho

oh dude you have no idea.

*troll face*

 

[z00ted]

im gonna help with samus matchup just no time atm

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

So as I'm sure many of you have seen (or will see), the BBR Matchup Chart v1.0 has been released

-4: (close to) unwinnable
-3: large disadvantage/hard countered
-2: medium disadvantage
-1: small disadvantage
0: even
+1: small advantage
+2: medium advantage
+3: large advantage/hard counter
+4: (close to) unloseable

-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:
3:

Minus a few minor differences, I'd say this agrees reasonably well with this thread imo



With the release of this chart, do people want me to change the ratios in +n and -n values?
And do we want to keep the ratios we've got here or should we now use the BBR chart for our match up values? Nicole, KB and Mikey (and Llod who also provided info) must have all taken part in this thread. That makes up a reasonable portion of tourney going Peach mains here so yea, would using the BBR chart values be more accurate?


Also, if anyone has any characters write ups or stuff they want to do for this then go go go, I'm super busy with work. Provided people are still happy with me having this thread, I'll try and update it where I can

 

[z00ted]

I'm sorry but I think it's a terrible list.

Metaknight and Snake are both -3

Marth, Falco, and Game and Watch could all arguably be -2.

DDD, Wolf, and Diddy are all -1.

Luigi, Yoshi, and Samus are definitely even. Sonic could be argued.

Ness and Wario are both +1s (although I believe Wario is +2 not many Peach mains can back up the claim.)

 

[Eddie G]

MK and Snake are MK and Snake. Tough matchups indeed but a -3 implies a almost complete steamroll of the weaker character. That ain't the case.

Marth, Falco, and GnW are not -2. Of the three, Falco locks Peach's options down the hardest (with Marth as a close second) but let me tell you, no, let me preach to you that those matchups are all very, very doable. GnW has huge openings to exploit and once that matchup is learned, it feels like Peach is perfectly build to exploit those openings. His KO power is only a threat if you somehow are forced into a situation with no way out. Does GnW really have that many tools to put her in that kind of situation? I can confidently say no. I love the Marth matchup. Both characters can actually box each other really well. Marth just has a bit stronger aerial control due to his range and frame trapping. It's entirely doable and Peach can pressure him just as much provided she exerts caution for any hard hitting reactions or misspacing on her part.

Wolf and DDD I would agree with being a possible -1, but Diddy and Peach are dead even.

I'm indifferent on Ness, Wario is free (I don't care to what arbitrary degree other people decide it is, that's on them).

I solemnly believe Peach has a +1 on Yoshi. Why do people still lose to Yoshi?

Peach has a +1 on Luigi imo. Her boxing game is far too superior for his slow *** to put his kill power to any real use. She shouldn't be getting hit by most of his attacks that don't have some range behind them, barring a hard read from the Luigi or what have you.