Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[gantrain05]

well its true falcon is fast.....but peach is no speed demon, ganon is nearly just as fast as peach and actually faster in the air.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Dude, you play Gay on ganon, he can't do anything. You can actually time out ganon with not much trouble. Create a wall of turnips and space moves. Same time toss **** at him. he is not gonna be able to touch you much. His F-B is the only way he would be able to get in, Bit that could leave him open. So do all of this Plus bone walking/free pull. Ganon is done. He can't get in. Yet alone land a kill move. How can you hit someone if you can't get near them. And when ganon does get in, Look at how much damage he is gonna take from the mission. Now you bring up your uplcose/pressure game. And repat the process. Not Ganon has to go through all that crap again. And once he is off the stage, tunip cancles and walls are ending his stock.

Falcon does not have this much trouble. Though you can be gay on him as well. His speed can help stop her trunip game. So You would have to worry about fighting him up close. Ganon is Worst for Peach.

Why you think olimar and Yoshi destroy Ganon. He can not get inside olimar. and the chance he ever gets, he is getting pivot grabbed. Same by yoshi. Thats all you have to do to ganon. it's so gay.

 

[z00ted]

Dark is sooo right.

Ganon is so much easier than Falcon.

 

[Meru.]

Dude, you play Gay on ganon, he can't do anything. You can actually time out ganon with not much trouble. Create a wall of turnips and space moves. Same time toss **** at him. he is not gonna be able to touch you much. His F-B is the only way he would be able to get in, Bit that could leave him open. So do all of this Plus bone walking/free pull. Ganon is done. He can't get in. Yet alone land a kill move. How can you hit someone if you can't get near them. And when ganon does get in, Look at how much damage he is gonna take from the mission. Now you bring up your uplcose/pressure game. And repat the process. Not Ganon has to go through all that crap again. And once he is off the stage, tunip cancles and walls are ending his stock.

Falcon does not have this much trouble. Though you can be gay on him as well. His speed can help stop her trunip game. So You would have to worry about fighting him up close. Ganon is Worst for Peach.

Why you think olimar and Yoshi destroy Ganon. He can not get inside olimar. and the chance he ever gets, he is getting pivot grabbed. Same by yoshi. Thats all you have to do to ganon. it's so gay.

You can do exactly the same against Falcon. Seriously.

"But Falcon has speed!!"

That is literally the only thing he has on her. His moves are TERRIBLE vs Peach. Yeah he's close now. So what? Your moves are faster, have much more range and beat his. Falcon hit you... big deal. Nair him away, hit him with a 14 hit combo, done. However, when Ganon is inside, you can actually get in trouble because his moves hit HARD. A few reads/mistakes and bam, you're dead. This wall thing you're describing works better vs Falcon as well, since he has major trouble with her moves and his approach is definitely not good vs her.

At least you have to respect Ganon's power but vs Falcon you barely have to respect anything of him. She might **** Ganon but she completely divides Falcon by zero. If you lose vs Falcon, either you were just joking around, SD'ed thrice, heavily underestimated the player (most likely this one) or you took a nap while playing.

Ganondorf 75-25
Falcon 80-20

imo

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I would say that Ganon is easier than Falcon. Falcon has speed and Uair

Ganon has an Up + B where if he grabs you with it, you can Nair him as soon as he lets go

Triforce of fail

Although you can Nair/Bair wall Falcon which is kind of funny

 

[Dark.Pch]

You can do exactly the same against Falcon. Seriously.

"But Falcon has speed!!"

That is literally the only thing he has on her. His moves are TERRIBLE vs Peach. Yeah he's close now. So what? Your moves are faster, have much more range and beat his. Falcon hit you... big deal. Nair him away, hit him with a 14 hit combo, done. However, when Ganon is inside, you can actually get in trouble because his moves hit HARD. A few reads/mistakes and bam, you're dead. This wall thing you're describing works better vs Falcon as well, since he has major trouble with her moves and his approach is definitely not good vs her.

At least you have to respect Ganon's power but vs Falcon you barely have to respect anything of him. She might **** Ganon but she completely divides Falcon by zero. If you lose vs Falcon, either you were just joking around, SD'ed thrice, heavily underestimated the player (most likely this one) or you took a nap while playing.

Ganondorf 75-25
Falcon 80-20

imo

What good is all that if he can't even hit me? Power really does not mean much here. You can do the same thing to Falcon. But who would have a harder time getting inside Peach? Falcon would. The speed he has helps him get in to Peach to some degree. So I can't be gay on Falcon as easily as I would be ganon with turnips. If you can't touch me, you are screwed. Ganon is easier than Falcon.

 

[gantrain05]

i would just like to say, that if i meet any peach mains in tourney, i'll MM ur peach with my ganon and prove u all wrong =)

 

[Meru.]

What good is all that if he can't even hit me? Power really does not mean much here. You can do the same thing to Falcon. But who would have a harder time getting inside Peach? Falcon would. The speed he has helps him get in to Peach to some degree. So I can't be gay on Falcon as easily as I would be ganon with turnips. If you can't touch me, you are screwed. Ganon is easier than Falcon.

You're underestimating Ganondorf range and speed. The latter one is bad, but not THAT bad. He will touch you eventually for whatever reason. He has range too, so you actually have to watch out for something. Uair is quite good, Dair can be scary (it has some nice disjoint too ><) and Side B is really annoying. Falcon on the other hand... His Uair and Jab are his best bets. Uair won't hit a grounded opponent. If you're in the air, Dair or Nair beats it like it's nothing. Jab... I just Nair (or float Nair) and it seems to work @_@. If you move a bit his jab most likely won't hit you anyway. Furthermore... Ftilt/Utilt? Former one has a poop hitbox, latter one is hella slow.

Well, tbh, it doesn't really matter in the end, they're both ****ty match-ups. #_#

 

[culexus・wau]

Ganondorfs ooooooooooooooooookkkkkkk if he's onstage.

what makes him lose the MU imo hard imo is how free he is offstage

;>

 

[Dark.Pch]

You're underestimating Ganondorf range and speed. The latter one is bad, but not THAT bad. He will touch you eventually for whatever reason. He has range too, so you actually have to watch out for something. Uair is quite good, Dair can be scary (it has some nice disjoint too ><) and Side B is really annoying. Falcon on the other hand... His Uair and Jab are his best bets. Uair won't hit a grounded opponent. If you're in the air, Dair or Nair beats it like it's nothing. Jab... I just Nair (or float Nair) and it seems to work @_@. If you move a bit his jab most likely won't hit you anyway. Furthermore... Ftilt/Utilt? Former one has a poop hitbox, latter one is hella slow.

Well, tbh, it doesn't really matter in the end, they're both ****ty match-ups. #_#

I am not underratting anyone. You don't seem to understand for all that to happen they have to get inside my wall.

All that you just said involes Ganon touching me. Thus he has to get in. Falcon has a better chance of getting inside Peach than Ganon. This is something you don't seem to wanna understand.

 

[deepseadiva]

Ganon gets inside sometimes.

 

[Dark.Pch]

And so does Falcon. But Falcon has a better chance at getting in then ganon. Thus a higher % rate of landing hits. I'm not sure why this is hard to understand.

 

[deepseadiva]

I disagree. They both have about equal chance I think.

But Ganon actually does something when he does, while Falcon like... uairs once.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Falcon has a better chance of catching Peach cause he is Fast. Ganon isnt fast.

 

[z00ted]

Guys are we seriously comparing Ganon to Falcon?

This is just like when everyone though Falcon was the worst in the game.

Is he? No.

 

[deepseadiva]

Yea, but tier list position doesn't determine personal match-ups. We go even with Samus, for example.

Dair just eats both of them so bad.

 

[z00ted]

I'm just comparing Ganon to Falcon in general.

Does Ganon do better than Falcon in any matchups?

 

[gantrain05]

well ganon has ZERO favorable MU's....at least on paper and in theory, but theres like....2 people in the entire world who actually play ganon seriously so who knows.

but i will have to say ganon is much scarier than falcon.

 

[¿Qué?]

well ganon has ZERO favorable MU's....at least on paper and in theory, but theres like....2 people in the entire world who actually play ganon seriously so who knows.

but i will have to say ganon is much scarier than falcon.

If Ganon lands one SideB on you, that can mean your whole stock. All he really has to do is tech chase you with it until you're at kill percent.

 

[z00ted]

looooooooooooooooolololol

"can" being the key word.

Ganon for S Tier.

 

[Eddie G]

I've played both. Ganon gets in better, and generally poses a bigger threat because he can automatically get you into a tech chase situation. He can also kill very early and just generally cause a lot of hurt if he can catch her. Falcon has like...no priority either.

It doesn't matter if Falcon is faster. That would be like saying Sonic stands a good chance against Peach because he's the fastest in the game, but we all know that's not the case.

 

[Dark.Pch]

For ganon to even lan hits and tech chases, that is all mind game material. That wat ganon is. All mindgames. You can't just do one thing and then follow up with another like a combo or strat. Cause of of his moves do that. The way Ganon likes moves is by hard reads. Falcon actually has things to link with.

So I am not gonna gibe ganon the upper hand here cause he ias to rely on reads more than anything else. It is a game of luck.

Ganon getting me in a teach chase situation easy? This dude has to get past my gay play for that to happen. So No, we can not get me in a tech chase situation easy.

 

[Eddie G]

I never said it was easy for him. I'm simply saying that because he has the capability of putting Peach in a grounded position (tech chase/guessing game/etc) with one move, whereas Falcon does not. He also kills earlier should he land a hit. Both are almost equally terrible in the MU anyway.

 

[Dark.Pch]

The Fact is he has to land that move. landing that on Peach is gonna be a pain. And if he everl ands it, its all a guessing game. it is not some combo or something you can follow up with due to options. its all guessing.

Now with Falcon, he can actually string some moves and keep up with Peach in the air due to how fast he is. He does not have to do this to get hits. Ganon is all about guess. relying on lick is as good as relying on a strat. A game plan.

Let me break this down for you people. Peach is being gay On both Falcon and ganon. walls and turnip. pressure, hit and run. Nowthese guys are gonna have to break threw it all. Who has a better chance of getting in. Falcon. Cause he is fasterand would have an easier time to catch up or keep up with Peach if she tries to evade to start her gay nonsense. Falcon wins here.

Now who has a better time to land a hit? Ganon relys on mindgames and guessing to get a hit and cause damage. ganon can actually link moves to do damage. Ganon could have all the power he wants. if he can't land it and has to rely on luck, It aint all that. Or else Boswer and Ike would just **** Peach. They hit hard right? So they much own. Yet they don't for a reason. So another point for falcon.

Off stage, it is easier to edguard and gimp ganon due to his recovery. And it is actually easier to get ganon off stage to begin with.

You guys are saying Ganon can do this and that When you are not taking into account that he has to bust his *** to get inside a gay Peach and then when he does, he has to rely on a game of luck to get in.

So Ganon is harder cause he has power and relys on luck? Ok, when I feel lucky to play high in a tournament I am gonna use Ganon instead of Peach. or if something good happen to me thatday out of luck, I am gonna use ganon.

 

[gantrain05]

ganon also beats our arials with his Uair, it has massive range and believe it or not, a free falling peach isn't too hard for ganon to punish, in fact, the most advantagous things ganon has on anybody in brawl is when they are in the air and he's on stage due to literally just his Uair being so damn good. but stay grounded and u run the risk of getting choked by that side B of his.

now im not saying ganon is awesome and does waaaaaay better than falcon vs peach, but im saying that a good ganon actually has the means to kill you and also has the option to play it safe, throwing turnips at him all day isn't gonna win u the match, they aren't hard to powershield or even just catch and throw back.

the way i see it, ganon and falcon are both terrible against peach, but in order for ganon to kill us, all he literally needs to do is bait one airdodge or Dair or anything and punish hard enough to kill us very early. worst thing thats gonna happen if falcon baits...he hits us with his weakass Uair or something. he's got a knee that isn't too tough to land but it takes alot of good reads to do so reliably.

bottom line...they both suck, but its not as hard as u think for ganon to get inside, and when he does its probably gonna hurt, so just because ganon can actually KILL us, id say 70/30 for ganon and 75/25 for falcon.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Falcons Up also Beast her air attacks. If Peach is free falling Falcon has a better time of keeping up do to his mobility, and has a better chance of landing Upairs.

Being ground is the risk of a F-B. That dude has to go to a wall of hell to land that. And if he does, it is all about luck to tech chase and get damage.

Turnips are not gonan help me win. Dude, you just can't be serious. And I am not talking about just brainlessly tossing them. I am talking about smart use of it and creating a wall with them. He can shield all he wants, that dude is not getting in. He has to deal with 2 things. that wall and if he gets in, Peach upclose game that just ***** ganon. Let that dude sit in the shield. he has no quick out of shield option to beat Peach pressure and spacing. Let me see him PS through a wall plus Peach upclose game.

it's not easy top get the lead. I get it, I am out playing gay, ganon is done.

And no, In oder for ganon to kill us, he has to read from start to finish. Again, its a game of luck. You actually gonna tell me luck relying on luck is better than a gay strat? Really with ganon?

Again, for him to kill you, he has to get in. getting in iis hell. He will have a hard time catching Peach with her wall and spaxing. Then evading with Free pull/bonewalking for evasion. His F-B is not even good enough to catch me. if I am being evasive. And if anything, the turnips will slow it down or stop it.

For ganon to even get us in the air is a pain. Cause of the **** he has to deal with to do so. and rely on reads. His speed on the grpound is not good enough to catch an evasive peach well. Falcon can atleast back some of it up. Piking up a turnip near an enemy is asking to get hit. When you are near someone, they have to stop camping and fight you. To get space. Ganon does not have that optin to much. And aproaching in the air is just........no.

Going on about all this power and he can kill is early. none of it matters if you cant even use it well. If you wanna go on about power, Bowser and Ike would just counter Peach. Same with Yoshi, luigi and Fox.

This is seriously not hard to understand. Falcon has a better shot to get in, thus reduce her gay game play. Thus having a better chance of landing hits. Then getting her in the air. and kepping up with her in the air better. And possibly getting a kill off.

And people are gonna sit here and tell me ganon does it better cause of power plus luck? I seriously feel it is stuff like this that Peach really does not get anywhere in tournies that matter.

 

[Meru.]

You tell us that Ganondorf needs "luck" and has to read from start to begin, but what makes you think Falcon has it any better than that? Falcon has pretty much NO reliable options vs Peach. His two most reliable are jab - which will rarely hit her, when it does she can Nair quickly and it's solely based on mindgames - and Uair - which gets torn apart by Dair/Nair, cannot hit grounded opponents (or it has much trouble accomplishing that) and if you get hit it's not even that bad. Ganondorf's moves such as SideB, which has quite a lot of range, and Uair, similar to that of Falcon, but this one has more range, is more powerful and we can't beat this with our attacks this easily, pose a bigger threat than Falcon's.

Next thing you state is that we don't understand that Falcon has an easier time getting in because of his speed. First of all, we do understand what you're saying, we just disagree. Second of all, a fast approach is not necessarily better than a slow one. Fox is considered to be a character with some approach problems, however Peach is considered a character with good approaches... but Fox' mobility is much faster than Peach's. MK's aerial approach is regarded as godly, but his aerial mobility is bottom 5. Jigglypuff's aerial approach seems to be ****, but her aerial mobility is top 5. Ganondorf has better attacks to deal with Peach, and thus he can approach her better. Falcon has worse attacks to deal with Peach, so he has a harder time. And IF they get in, which is not based on luck or anything, Ganondorf has it easier and he's more effective than Falcon.

You say that Falcon has a better shot to get in, thus he can reduce her gay gameplay, but really... that's where the real "gay gameplay" starts, because that's where she destroys him.

 

[gantrain05]

i love the peach boards, only here we debate whether we destroy ganon or falcon more completely, and so far its a good debate.

i see both points of view, but im still stickin with ganon. for reasons already listed.

and im not tryin to start a fight, but i think its healthy to argue/debate over things as its the best way to learn just exactly how people other than yourself think and feel about a MU. so lets not get mad at each other over something this dumb and lets just try and take some tips away from it.

 

[Dark.Pch]

You tell us that Ganondorf needs "luck" and has to read from start to begin, but what makes you think Falcon has it any better than that? Falcon has pretty much NO reliable options vs Peach. His two most reliable are jab - which will rarely hit her, when it does she can Nair quickly and it's solely based on mindgames - and Uair - which gets torn apart by Dair/Nair, cannot hit grounded opponents (or it has much trouble accomplishing that) and if you get hit it's not even that bad. Ganondorf's moves such as SideB, which has quite a lot of range, and Uair, similar to that of Falcon, but this one has more range, is more powerful and we can't beat this with our attacks this easily, pose a bigger threat than Falcon's.

Next thing you state is that we don't understand that Falcon has an easier time getting in because of his speed. First of all, we do understand what you're saying, we just disagree. Second of all, a fast approach is not necessarily better than a slow one. Fox is considered to be a character with some approach problems, however Peach is considered a character with good approaches... but Fox' mobility is much faster than Peach's. MK's aerial approach is regarded as godly, but his aerial mobility is bottom 5. Jigglypuff's aerial approach seems to be ****, but her aerial mobility is top 5. Ganondorf has better attacks to deal with Peach, and thus he can approach her better. Falcon has worse attacks to deal with Peach, so he has a harder time. And IF they get in, which is not based on luck or anything, Ganondorf has it easier and he's more effective than Falcon.

You say that Falcon has a better shot to get in, thus he can reduce her gay gameplay, but really... that's where the real "gay gameplay" starts, because that's where she destroys him.

Can has better attacks to deal with peach so he deal with her better. What good are they if you can't hit me? Not only that, Ganons moves are slow. And none or his air attacks cancel except for Dair if timed corectly. Falcon can cancel moves with Bair/Nair and up air. So if he shield ones shield with them, he can quickly follow up with a Jab or just roll away. Ganon does not have that. he attacks the shield he is open. Thus another way for him to get in.

Faclon does not rely on reads solo like Ganon. All Ganon has is reads. One way Falcon could getin is with Nairs to hit the turnips. His mobitity helps with that. Ganon Can't go in with Nair. or any air attack since they are slow and he lags.

You guys are like Starting from the middle. You need to realize these things are in steps. To hit someone you have to be near them. to catch someone you have to chase. if they leave traps or walls, you have to get through it all. You can't just say all this stuff and not think about how it needs to be done.

I can't say I can do all this and that to falco. it is not gonna matter If I don't realize thathe can camp and figure out how/what I gotta to catch him, get in. because I can combo and pressure falco, I an gonna disreguard the fact that I have to work to get inside for all that to happen? That is an important factor to keep in mind. its like me fighting a character that I can reape once he is in the air. And I have a godly air game. But my ground game sucks, and the only way for me to get him in the air is with my ground game.

"Oh I can do this and that to him in the air"

Ok, You have to do it on the ground and your ground game is terrible

"Don't matter I can do this and that to him so I got this"

No, just no.

You don't jump steps like you guys been doing here. I can't get my drivers license with out having a permit. I can't walk if I don't know how to stand.I can't drive my own ar or by one without a lisence. And I get hit someone if they won't let me and set up traps. I have to deal with all that first. And how difficult that is.

You start from sq one. And Falcon wins that.

 

[culexus・wau]

Serious question

why are we arguing match-ups that don't really matter ganon and falcon vs peach?

:x

 

[gantrain05]

because every MU matters to some extent.

if you've never ever ever played a guy who is actually GOOD with ganon or falcon and u know nothing about them....no matter what kind of advantage you have on them...i garauntee that they will have worked their ***** off to study all of their MU's and will probably beat u.

 

[deepseadiva]

Gantrain is a very underrated poster.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Serious question

why are we arguing match-ups that don't really matter ganon and falcon vs peach?

:x

What a meh thing to say....



Yes Gant like that really good Ganon ummm his name starts with an A.

 

[z00ted]

Yaay is right about the luck thing Dark.

On a side note; this is stupid!

Who cares if Dark thinks Ganon is easier then Captain Falcon? I also think he is easier. But why when it involves Dark the thread always gets this super salty vibe? Other boards do the same thing, but they don't get so crazy. Let's just calm down, everyone can have their own opinion and that goes both ways.

 

[Eddie G]

Gantrain is a very underrated poster.

I agree.

What he said is true as well. My buddy Fonz (a ranked Lucario here in Ohio) also plays one of the best Ganons around (arguably second to Verm's Ganon), and he knows his **** against a lot of matchups with him. I've already money matched him in the past and abused Peach's keep away game as much as possible, but he still found ways to get inside and utilized Ganon's ability to automatically put Peach in some disadvantageous guessing games with his side B, and score some early kills just because of the sheer reward that Ganon gets out of just landing one hit. I just barely took the win. He also took ADHD's Diddy to last stock in a MM at Pound 4, and beat AZ's Diddy and my Diddy (even on FD) pretty handily. That's how much influence MU knowledge can have.

@ Ill- No one is salty arguing. I've been in similar debates all over the place on this site and this is the only section that seems to have a defensive reaction toward minor disagreements. That needs to stop.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I agree.

What he said is true as well. My buddy Fonz (a ranked Lucario here in Ohio) also plays one of the best Ganons around (arguably second to Verm's Ganon), and he knows his **** against a lot of matchups with him. I've already money matched him in the past and abused Peach's keep away game as much as possible, but he still found ways to get inside and utilized Ganon's ability to automatically put Peach in some disadvantageous guessing games with his side B, and score some early kills just because of the sheer reward that Ganon gets out of just landing one hit. I just barely took the win. He also took ADHD's Diddy to last stock in a MM at Pound 4, and beat AZ's Diddy and my Diddy (even on FD) pretty handily. That's how much influence MU knowledge can have.

This right here really does not mean anything. I wanna see if you can figure out why before I tell you.

 

[DanGR]

This right here really does not mean anything. I wanna see if you can figure out why before I tell you.

Because Fonz hasn't played DARK.PCH yet, DAWG.



But seriously, I came in here wondering who the best Peach players are at fighting Marth and Metaknight. Lookin for help. :[

 

[Dark.Pch]

For now with Meta I guess Nicole. Once I get good at this game and stop doing stupid ****, I wanna see what will be up then. But here is a right up I have on meta knight that can help you.

Meta Knight:

This match up is a game of cat and mouse. You are always the mouse and can never be the cat, at all. You dare try being the cat, you are asking to get the crap beating out of you. (this applies to Marth as well) how does a mouse come out victorious from a cat? If you ever watch tom and jerry, the way Jerry handles tom. thats how you are suppose to do it here.

You have no buissness approaching meta Unless he has the lead. Let him come to you. Hit and run. You can attack him from distance. He can't If he wants to hurt you, he has to come to you. Plus need to keep your Kill moves fresh. Meta is not that heavy and lucky for us, he can die well from us.

Lot's have been said here so I'll just add what you need in this match.

- Patience. If you play aggressive, throw this match out the window, you are not winning. Patience is important here for you don't need to be approaching meta. learn to be defensive, playing aggressive will have meta end you sooner than you expect. Certain characters you need to play aggressive. meta is NOT one of them. He is not having that.

- Evasion. You need to have good evasion when Meta is all over you. Once meta gets his hits in and is on you, he can stay on your *** and even kill you for it. So you need to know how to break away. With platforms this makes it hard, but easier at the same time. Learn how to break free him his pressure/rampage. Once you do, you can start the process of getting damage from turnips and having him come to you.

- Spacing. This is also important. With you have good spacing, it will make it hard for meta to touch you. His range is not that good. Only time he has decent range is his Ftilt and and think Fsmash. Bait his moves and space yours. Done right, you can break his crap and hit him. Add turnips to your spacing if in fear you kill moves will get weak. Just don't pick them up at the wrong time.

- Speed/quick relfexes. This is one of the reasons I find meta fun to play against. Cause with him, I have to play so fast. somewhat reminds me of melee. Don't stay in one place for too long. Don't roll alot, you will just eat a Dsmash or move into his attacks. Make it hard for meta to pin point you. This can reduce the chance or stupid kills he can get on you. This is also important cause his range is not all that. Meta hits your shield, recat as fast as possible with a counter attack. Meta sidesteps? short hop Dair or FC>bair if looking the other way. See meata rolling on to the stage? Reverse Fsmash him. But be quick about it all. The faster you are, the more problems meta will have. More than expected. Even for a character like Peach.

To me these are the 4 most important factors for beating this broken character. The most important one to me I would say is patience. Even if you suck at the last 3, patience can make up for it. Use these 4 things and use them as combinations. Or all at once if you are good at them.

Becareful when you have distance. Cause most will tornado to you. really when you wanna glide toss. so that is why when there is distance, I move in slowly and don't really bother getting a turnip. Cause they would tornado to you. And if he spamms Nado, limit the use of turnips and be aware of a tornado when you have a distance between you two. Turnips are a must and do help. But careful when getting one, really when he is at a distance he can reach you with tornado.

This pretty much goes for anything else you do, cause he you can do an air attack and meta can just tornado you out of it. Keep your eyes on meta all the time. Also I don't see many people doing this, and I seriously don't get why. But when Meta tornados your shield, aim it to where he is. Done right, Meta can NOT shield stab you, then punish out the shield with a grab or dash attack out of shield. Hell, even Jab him out of shield. This is what I always do to meta,s who tornado me and I shield. Seriously, your shield is more godly then you think.

And Metas to spot dodge to Dsmashes are typical metas. They will do anything to that move cause it is quick, so of course people will abuse it. Thats why I just short hop Dair and tell them to p[ack it up. But smart metas would replace that with Up-B out of shield or Nairs. Sometimes Fairs.

Ways to Deal with the Tornado:

(Distance tornado rush)- This is when a Meta spaces or camps moves like down air and know you won't move into them. So at this time a Peach would usually get a turnip. Then they move in with a tornado and hit you. Or if you are close to them and run away to get space or a turnip, a tornado would follow. So be aware of this. And get ready to Fsmash him.

(Tornado wall)- Ok I don't see many people doing this and I seriously don't know why. When Meta tornados your shield, MOVE your shield to where he is. Do this and meta will NOT, thats correct, NOT, shield stab you. No matter how small it is. Peach is not a big, fat character. She is one of the many few that can get away with this. From there, Dash attack out of shield, Ground float out of shield to an air attack. Or grab. Depends on how far he lands away from you.

(Tornado counter reversal)- If you ever get caught in it, Tap the contol stick up as fast as you can and the jump button. You will be able to jump out of it. Things I do is I jump out and float. Then Dair him and hits him out of it. Or jump and when he tornado is over and he falls to the floor, I fall right after and Dair or Nair. I can break out of that move like 80% of the time now.

(Tornado Break)- You can break the tornado by aiming for the for corners of the move. While People like Edreese do it with Bairs. I do it fair airs (just easier for me). All turnips can break the tornado. You have to play basket ball now. If you can shoot a turnip in the center of the move, it will clap him out of it. No matter what turnip it is. You gotta go for them three pointers. I was telling Mikey about this. Also if you are on a stage with platforms and he tornados, you can use the platforms to get above him and throw one straight down inside. Sometimes I just jump over meta and throw a turnip down. Really them spammy ones.

getting back on the stage is a pain. Don't test metas moves while recovering. Just leave them alone. To avoid a fight is not to start one. So don't Cause you gonna leave yourself open and take hits. Just chill out and move in and out in the air. Screw trying to fight him in the air cause you mostly likely gonna lose when returning. Just worry about getting back and don't abuse your air dodge out of fear when he is near you, you will take easy hits. Just move in and out and don't rush to get back on stage. You will be surprised on how this simple crap works.

Don't keep trying to get or focus on turnips so much. Cause you will just be open for a tornado. Most of these metas will just space moves and see if you would try and rush in and get hit. If not then the next thing is to see if you would run off to a turnip or float to some air attack, thats when they go in for the tornado. So just keep your eye on meta at all times.

If meta glides attacks you, toad it. screw trying to go and hit him with an air attack. Just toad it. if he does it out the shield and goes to glide attack. Toad it. If you seem him recovering to the stage glide attacking, go out and toad him. You 2 things can happen

- Meta takes the hit
- he does nothing and goes through you (In fear he would get spores to the face)

Ether way it is good for you. Now if he wants to cancel his up-B, You already got him where you want him. Why? Cause not you got that ******* second guessing wether or not to strike or not. And tokk away one of his best killing options. Not if you feel he catches on and he would cancel his glide attack when you go near him, you can just go out and nair him. I say Nair cause that move is not all that for killing, so why burn a kill move and stale it if he is not gonna die to begin with, save that free hit for a move like Nair. Now you can mess with his head about glide attack. or even attack out of the shield with up-B. Mindgames

Space your moves correctly. Make sure your spacing is good. Not ok but GOOD. Go beyond good and you are in better shape. meta can't punish you at all if you shace your air attacks. For Fsmashes it depends on distances with what ever Fsmash you get. A fsmash can push people back, and if then wanna come in after you from shield, Jab meta. He can't hit you. The slick thing he would try to do is the typical up-B. Weave when meta gets near you or roll away. No punishment for meta to take advantage of there. Space glide tosses out of shield too.

The next thing is master ground floating your air attacks. I was doing thise to metas and it becomes hard for meta to hit you or punish out of shield. the best way to take on meta is on the ground. His ground game is not all that compared to his air game. This applies for Marth and lucario. You see how good they are in the air compair to the ground? his is where they start the ****. So best thing to do? Not give them that option. This can also apply to having a good ground game.

So if you people don't ground float alot, I suggest you start busting out your wiis and get to doing that. Do that until it is second nature. Increase your reaction time. And start dound it out of shield. Sometimes when you do it out of the shield, people can shield before your attacks hit. This is dude to the distance of the spacing of the enemies attack. So pat close attacking to this. If this happens roll away. Don't stay near meta. Though this may not be a wise choice ether, and I will let you know why.

Your shield is really important to beating meta. After you ground float a move or space one, shield cause meta would usually attack. There is no way the are grabbing you. After they attack, you can dish out yours by jumping out of shield or ground floating out of it. Not this is if meta goes in on you. if he spaces the moves, just get the hell out of there. Leave meta alone swining at the air. he can't do anything to you and you should not be greedy to wanna hit him. Go get a turnip Or just watch what he does next.

I know you Peach's love the air alot. If you wanna beat this clown, limit that. Learn to take him on the ground. Even if you are in the air, you can fight him on the ground. Meta is not that quick in the air. and it is hard to beat his moves in the air. Remember this. What goes up. must come down. Meta has to touch the floor some times. You can bring your air game to the ground and it makes your spacing and combat speed much better if you was air born.

His shield, gets beating up bad and he becomes easy to hit out of it. his shield does not hold out long to pressure. Anyone who can pressure meta well can pund on him. and arent we lucky that Peach is a beast at pressure? But learn to do it right.

As for recovering, this may sound stupid as hell ut it works, and when I told a few of my other students to do this, they see a difference. When you are comming back and meta is near you, don't do anything at all. Just move away. Most metas (that are smart anyway) love to just sit there and abuse air dodges, and since ours is utter crap, thats what they look for. then get you. remeber, he is not quick in the air. if you have good reaction time, you can see an assult comming that hit him. Don't **** your pants and get scared, then air dodge. Your air dodge is not atool for evasion. it's mind game. the best thing you can do with this character is pull away. You give meta nothing to react too. So he has to make the first blow. Then you can ether air dodge or time an attack.

If you can ane meta is not near you when coming back, recover low. its not that easy for characters (yes even meta) to hit you from below. Now if meta is under you.my lil tip of pulling away wont do much. So you have 2 choices. Timne a dair, or time a air dodge. Some times in this case you CAN pull away to get that postion to do what I just said above. So don't think you alway can't when he is right there.

And learn my trick I call the turnip juggle. You grab a turnip, toss it up, grab another one, toss that up, then jump and Z grab the first you toss and toss it up again and do the same for the second. Then grab another. If you want you chain 2 turnip juggles and toss it off stage, so you have 2 turnips going out at the anemy, then you can follw up with an assult. You can aslo link a turnip juggle to a turnip cancel off stages. To cover more vertical range. And even horizontal range. Then go in for an assult of bait moves/airdodges and attack. You can have about three turnips guarding the air at once. Even 4. You would have to tunip juggle, Then platform cancel a turnip and toss it up. Then run back and quickly do it again as the turnip is about to come down and durnip cancel to a Z drop and grab the air. Do you realize how much you have covered? Just picture it for a min.

Spacing can Make it hard for meta to hit you. His air moves don't have much range. Dsmash is quick but can leave him open. And Fsmash is not that fast. but does have range. His Ftilt and Dtilt have range. So look out for that. But he has to be in a netural position for that. Now with these moves let turnips geat with this, not your hands. if you can't get one at the time, just leave him alone. You dont always have to swing at meta. And you reallt dont need to be in the air against him nether. Seriously, you don't.

Tunrips slow him down and he is not quick in the air to begin with. so start using my turnip juggle. wether on stage or on stage. Get to work on that. And learn to fight with a turnip in hand. People expect to many typical things from this character, like a turnip toss to a Fair then jab or Dsmash. You don't always have to those the turnip first. Fight with it in your hand. i can increase your pressure game . For if you are ground floating and spacing moves, you can tossa turnip inbetween and thencan start more pressure, stop an attack or bait moves. metas don't like thier shield being pounded alot. To Bad Blondes in Pink dresses dont give a damm.

Meta is not a lost cause when Peach fight him. He seriously is not. He is hard to deal with. But what people fail to realize is that Peach has alot of tolls that can do seriously damage. Thing is, no oneis abusing them at all. and even have typical game play with Peach. and people have already gone seen all this crap. So give them something that they can see, but can't figure out or deal with at all. Or something they can't expect.


So outside the typical match up on meta, you really wanna take this fool down? Use all that I said here. But you will ailat this if

- You have poor control of Peach
- Reaction time is slow
- Spacing is not good.
- Ground floating and doing it out of shield is not good.

And most important. Don't let this character get to you. If you see a big d\man or some player using meta on you, who gives a ****. They can feel safe all they want and have all that confidence in the world cause he is meta fighing a Peach. Cause I beat when one finds out they have to play a Peach, they are so relaxed, and like. "yea, I got this not much to worry about, I'm a big name and I have meta, it's all good" Don't worry about all of that, thats how big names or high tier placers are. Just wild out on them. Worry about your game. All that will turn into sweat drops on your opponent when they are about to lose and wonder wtf just happend. Underation is the greatest weapon. And feeling safe is the worst feeling you can have. Lets see if you can understand what I mean by this...........what, I can't give you all the answers. Gotta learn how to think for yourselves.


For Marth:

Marth has less range than before. And he cant combo like he did in melee. Or chain grab for lil gimp kills. His combos you can just air dodge. What weakness thoses Marth have in this fight. For one thing, his recovery got nerfed. And he is not that hard to edgeguard nether. But thats not his weakness.

Turnips are the way to go when not near him. He can swat them all he wants, he is ether gonna get hit or get caught with a follow up if the player is smart.

Peach has to space herself just as much as Marth. Cause He have a sword. Also, Marth cant fight under him. Thats another weakness he has. Now, how to abuse it? Simple. Dont play the average Peach. Play smart. Don't Dsmash every time you side step of flinch. Dont roll back and fourth to everything Marth does cause your scared to get Fsmashed or grabbed. Marths will wait for your reaction, then when you roll, sidestep or Dsmash, we will retaliate with a grab of Fsmash.

Marth now love his F-B so they will use that alot. And for spacing. Some marth may F-B you then stop in the middle of it. Wait for you to roll or side step then retaliate. They can also do F-B then in the middle just Jab you or Dtilt you, then start it up again or wait for you to do something then react to what you do and you get punished. Or he can just finish the combo and Down B you for the last F-B hit and stab your shield. Really good for spacing if Marth is too close and fears of getting grabbed or attack out of the shield.

If Marth is too close. Peach Can actually Grab Marth in between the F-B combo with good time at the start of it. or roll behind him and punish Marth if quick enough with a Grab, Dtilt, Dsmash, etc. You can also grab Marth in between his Jabs.

If you did not jump and he catches you with F-B combos, you can float in the middle of it and get behind him and bair him. I do it all the time.

Use your turnips wisley. Dont just throw it once you get it then go in with a FC-Fair. such a common Peach move that people will know what to do. and when you hit thier shield, the Peach may Jab after. Play it smart. bluff the Marth. Mindgames. Think ahead. Turnip pillar him (if you know what that is) Or jump and Z drop the turnip and grab him. Mix up how you go at Marth.

And Watch out for his Fair. it it hits your shield and he spaced it, he can do w/e he wants soon after. Cause that Move has no lag. And his Up air as well. so Be careful when over him. Timed Down airs can stop his up airs. And a Good air game can do damage to Marth. Her Dair is good at shield pressure, eating and stabbing the shield. You can even fast fall through the shield with her Dair and you can get a hit of and stab the shield better depending on the size of the shield and the timing on how you fast fall the Dair.

Marth is really Good at spacing. so you gotta learn how to get past that. Turnips is one way, and well timed attacks when he does his. Peachs Back air comes out fast and has range. Not to mention it got buffed and hits 2 times. So that is a bonus. Its a really good move for spacing. And can beat his attacks if you time it right. Her Fair as well.

Know what attacks you can do out the shield when he hits yours. if spaced, best thing you can do is maybe Fsmash out the shield. and even if you miss, you space yourself, so you have time to retreat before Marth gets you. FC>Nairs out the shield work wonders if he is close enough.it all depends on his spacing and if he is behind you or in front. Rolling is good but you can be punished for that cause the Marth may catch on............or fact is, you have no choice but to roll. Though you can try to dash attack out of the shield. Since it has priority and hits twice. Decent range too.

Marth can be a sitting duck when recovering. aim well with turnips. or time Back airs or Fairs off the stage to hit him It works and when it hits, thats it, Marth is done. You can run to the edge, Jump and throw a turnip the other way. so now you face the stage. then back air him. and Peach can come back to the stage no problem cause you still have your second jump to float then up-B back to safety.

And their combat speed is nearly the same. Peach got faster so you can take advantage of her speed with quick thinking.

Learn what Marth looks for in this match up. common habits Peach players have Marths will look for it and try to punish.

- dont roll alot.

- Don't always Turnip to FC>Fair.

- Dont Dsmash everytime you flinch or get scared.

- dont dash attack alot. get some grabs in there, cant stress that enough. Then Mix and Match your grabs with Dash attacks. and vice versa.

- Think ahead. Be aware of what Marth is abusing that you do. think clearly when your close to him. Dont spam the same stuff over and over.

Peach can attack him from distance with turnips. She does not have to get close to deal Damage to Marth. While Marth has to get close. Marth has More Range that Peach Up close....a sword. So it be stupid to rush and and such with poor spacing. Thats why I keep my distance and space against him. Same with Roy In Melee. I dont rush him. he has a sword so I cant just rush in at him. Even tough Peach destroys roy. So watching out for his sword and looking for his reaction game does not mean he controls the match 24/7

Well for defense, She can attack out the shield with her turnips. And use the Glide toss to get near as well. Also she has the turnip pillar that can be used defensive. Her floating out the shield for a quick attack or retreat while attacking as also another way of defense. And may not mean much but.....toad if you know Marth while come at you with Fairs or F-B.

Her Dair is good for pressure and can lead to lots of things.

Also Peach is one of the characters that can edgeguard him well and even gimp him with one.

Marth is a character you dont wanna rush at all. Best to bait him and abuse his mistakes. You rush a good Marth you are gonna pay clearly. I dont recommend being aggressive against Marth. leaning to the defensive side is the way to go.

Peach can do well against Marth upclose. With her jabs and Dsmash, Marth does the most damage when he is spacing. That's one of his main games. Also, Marth has a hard time when characters are under him. He can't fight very well when over people. So take advantage of that.

Counter his Nair with Your Fair. And His Fair with your Bair. But let him throw out he move first. Don't test them head on. hard to beat like that.

His dancing Blade. When he starts it, Hold away to DI out of it. Just simple Hold the stick away. At Low/ Mid Percent, you can SDI to Float out of it and hit him with Bair. Try to Keep Marth in the air as much as possible when you get the chance. And create walls of turnips. Marth noes not like it when one is under him, and can make it a pain to land. He as like the 3rd or 2nd worst air dodge. Abuse that weakness. with walls and turnip juggles.

 

[z00ted]

oh my sweet God

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Lolz

Dark, could you put that in collapse tags or something please? Its one hell of a page stretch