Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[Dark.Pch]

You people don't don't complain when one spams useless post in discussions like these. Things that have nothing to do with what is talking about and a waste of time. But would complain about a Page stretch with lots of info?

You guys make no sense at all.

 

[DanGR]

I'll have to give all that a shot. Thanks. ^^

I've been experimenting with footstool->d-air combos on MK because up-b and n-air OoS seems to own everything that isn't a spaced f-air. Any experience with that?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Don't waste your time trying that on meta. he is short for one thing. Second Meta would be usually in the air dishing out attacks or they would Up-B. Just space your moves and hit him if you can, if not, just bounce and use turnips. Meta Knight is not the type of characteryou wanna be fancy with. You can lose your stock easy.

 

[Eddie G]

This right here really does not mean anything. I wanna see if you can figure out why before I tell you.

Nah, I don't feel like it. I'm just citing an example from my own experience.

 

[z00ted]

Um Dark Footstool -> Dair works really well on Metaknight as well as any character.

Why would you not want to try and pull it off if you can?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Why would I risk that on a character that loves to be in the air alot. really when playing gay. You guys can play and do all the fancy things you want. But you won't be landing lots of foot stolls on meta. Nobody really does in general. I refuse to risk stuff on meta knight and end up getting ***** for it.

 

[gantrain05]

well i suppose if MK is grounded its worth a footstool attempt since it will negate his shield and you won't have to worry about getting shuttle looped afterward, i mean whats the worst thing thats gonna happen if u mess up the footstool, ur gonna still be in the same position so u might as well try.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Lets see, if I am playing a good meta, I have to look at the reward and punishment %. The chances of be being punished for trying this on meta is greater than the reward % (actually landing the foostool>combo) And with meta already being a ridiculous character already, then applying all that to the peach match up, I am not gonna waste my time trying that.

You misses up that foot still, and you are gonna get hit with meta knights stupid crap. You will not be in the same position.

 

[z00ted]

Yeah you're correct Dark, it's just that if you find an opportunity to pull it off, do it.

It's a free 45% and on Metaknight that's about half of his stock.

 

[Dark.Pch]

If you can, then by all means go for it. But the chances of you getting punished are really high. To me, I'm gonna be having that on my mid. I'm gonna make this more easier for meta to beat me.

 

[gantrain05]

all i'm sayin, is that if you're ever going to jump at MK and Dair him....you might as well add in the footstool, it takes no extra time to do and there is no downside for missing it really.

 

[Dark.Pch]

No. cause when you Dair Meta, You have extented hit boxes. Same time you are not that close as if you was to try and land a foot stool.

Next is that if you screw up, He can up-B you or hit you with an air attack.

Trying to Dair meta would also leave you to getting hit with so many of his stuff. he has so many ways to punish that. it is not Smart to try and go dair happy on him. So imagine trying to footstool him. When you just jump and not dong any action. You are a sitting duck. Your *** is gonna be eating attacks.

If they shield it, you will pop up. if you try to float, Meta can up-B out of shield or use any of his quick attacks to punish you for it. And if you blow the float, you end up in the air above meta. A situation you really don't wanna be in alot.

When Meta plays on point and thats his ****, he is usually in the air spacing air moves, air planking Or Up-B/tornado. You can be jumping into all that crap. its hard enough to just land a grab on him. So imagine a footstool.

So actually, there are downsides for missing it. Need to pay attention and learn about reward and punishment.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Ok, so some changes have been made!
I'm only concentrating on ratios atm becuase the OP is absolutely ridiculously huge
Assume the number is the ratio dictating with anything below 50 being a disadvantage and anything above 50 being an advantage
Things that have changed are:

Charizard - 45 to 50
Diddy - 55 to 50
Ganon - 65 to 70
IC's - 60 to 55
Ike - 60 to 55
DeDeDe - 50 to 45
Pit - 55 to 50
Sonic - 65 to 60
TL - 45 to 40
Wolf - 50 to 45

This is a WIP guys so let me know if you're unhappy with anything or if I've got something wrong let me know. I'll start purging the quotes section and write ups of any outdated info

 

[Meru.]

Wolf 45? Why? It's quite an even match-up. Not so sure about Diddy too... but I suck so badly in that match-up vs Didday so nvm that.

I still think we beat Sonic solidly, but meh. I heavily disagree with TL but I'm still the only one, so don't mind that too ><. I'm sure we beat Pit however. He hates her pressure game and he has some range problems vs her. If he can't connect with Bair, Peach won't die soon either.

 

[z00ted]

Perfect Rick.

I still think the DDD matchup is 40:60.

 

[Smoom77]

Why do you guys have a matchup ratio against Ganon?

 

[gantrain05]

Why do you guys have a matchup ratio against Ganon?

why not? he's a char too, altho a non-viable one, i'd sure want to know how to play the MU if i had to run into DLA or someone in brackets.

 

[Vermanubis]

Why do you guys have a matchup ratio against Ganon?

Because Peach vs. Ganon isn't unwinnable at all for Ganon.

 

[Smoom77]

Sarcasm is hard to detect on the Internet.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

oh my sweet God

I lol'd at this. Your mean lol

Verm your the person I was talking about a page back. I thought your name was Anubis

 

[DanGR]

So that stuff on Metaknight a couple pages back in this thread was pretty basic stuff. I know to space well, not airdodge and create turnip walls and stuff. <_<

>_> I'm sort of looking for advanced ways of dealing with up-b out of shield, tornado in general, his edgeguarding, juggling. Mainly stuff with a high skill cap for me to practice, but really anything, but all assuming the Metaknight player knows the matchup and can counter it correctly and skillfully to a pretty far extent.

And atm, I don't feel like I can do squat if he planks, learns to catch my turnips, and/or just powershields them all the time. Like how do you camp a character that is immune to your projectiles, and can tornado from half way across the stage if he thinks you even might try to pull a turnip, or really do anything besides fsmash, and can then back up if you're not in the air or do have room to fsmash? The risk:reward ratio for trying to throw turnips into the top of it is too silly to try, even if you're somehow are able to get it even half the time, so I tend to find it really more of a burden to have a turnip in hand when he's tornadoing than not having one.

My Peach-MK gameplay seems to be devolving into float canceling a ton and pulling turnips every 20 seconds while we're at a stalemate, waiting for him to do something so I don't have to hit his shield. Eventually I'm pushed to the ledge enough or tornado pokes my shield enough to **** me later anyways tho. I'm pretty depressed.

/emo

 

[gantrain05]

well i like to hold a turnip in my hand and use alot of ground float cancelled arials and an Fsmash every now and again, and when ever they tornado, just shield it and if they retreat with the nado u can chase em with a glide toss and get em before he can do anything about it, and if he stays on u, well u can just ground float a Bair or Nair to punish.

when he's planking and has the lead u want to do a mixture of throwing turnips and playin alot of mindgames NEAR the edge, just at that range where he thinks he just might be able to shuttle loop u and punish but far enough away that u can run in and out of safe/danger zone as to bait him into using it. and when he does u can clank with his glide attack with a Bair and maybe even nair works too, but point is, the clanking is good since u can cancel your arial and he has to suffer the landing lag, if he attacks low out of the glide attack, then u can punish with a Nair OoS.

if you are having trouble getting back on stage just remember to not challenge MK offstage unless you absolutely HAVE to just to make it back, if you recover high u can beat his shuttle loop if u space your Dairs correctly, when u are at the max height of his loop u can Dair, if he closes the gap, you most of the time don't have any choice but to take some damage, but eating a Dair or Uair is better than being killed with a shuttle loop. if you recover low, make sure u make good use of your float/double jump and on rare occasions toad, and remember he has an extremely difficult time punishing our parasol so use that whenever he's above u coming down.

but i guess on this MU its good to stay grounded a good amount of the time but its important to know when to go into arial mode, you just have to learn to catch on to some habits and punish them.

 

[DanGR]

You can't punish tornado after he's already retreated if he does it correctly. He's never going to stay on my shield with it unless it's going to poke me out of it or break it.

And there's little reason he should ever get hit by turnips while planking. And Sideb is too quick to keep up with if he jumps to the middle-bottom part of the stage (Smashville & Lylat) then sidebs to the ledge to circle camp you.

 

[Meru.]

You can jump into nado, DI up and Nair them... I suck at it though but I have seen Peaches do this consistently *coughcoughnicolecoughleoncough*. Also, Fsmash. She leans back and moves her hurtbox at the start-up. The disjointed range of every weapon of hers is ********.

As for planking, in theory he shouldnt ever get hit by anything, but creating a rainfall of turnips and ledge mindgames help to stop him.

Anyway gantrain's post is amazing.

 

[gantrain05]

yes, yes u can punish a retreated tornado actually, when he starts retreating glide toss after him, if you time it correctly you'll get him as he's coming out of tornado animation.

 

[DrakeRowan]

yes, yes u can punish a retreated tornado actually, when he starts retreating glide toss after him, if you time it correctly you'll get him as he's coming out of tornado animation.

Once the turnip hits MK for 5% damage (or more depending on what you throw at him) and you try to follow that glide toss up with anything, there's a good chance he'll put up his shield or just Shuttle loop you on the spot. That's another story though; just something to keep in mind.

 

[gantrain05]

if u hit him with the turnip u can dash grab or jab him, its a true combo.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Mostly the wh-re-nado is what I overall hate of Meta Knight over anything else.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Will test properly whenever I can be bothered but I was wondering - can you knock MK out of his Tornado by Airdodge dropping a Turnip onto him?

Tbh, this would probably be a terrible idea even if it worked since the hitstun of the Turnip wouldn't be enough to allow you to safely escape during airdodge cooldown

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Will test properly whenever I can be bothered but I was wondering - can you knock MK out of his Tornado by Airdodge dropping a Turnip onto him?

Tbh, this would probably be a terrible idea even if it worked since the hitstun of the Turnip wouldn't be enough to allow you to safely escape during airdodge cooldown

I believe I have tried that and if I remember right it can stop it, but I had times where that Wh_re-nado ate the turnip. Don't quote me completely on it. It was a while back. I can try it later but you might before so.

 

[DanGR]

You guys do know you can't DI tornado, right? So all your posts about hitting him at the top with n-airs and crud really don't matter... Nicole is only "good" at doing it because her opponents mess up a lot.

Fsmash works when they tornado at poor times.

And I've no clue what you guys are talking about when you say to glide toss out of shield to punish it. Turnips don't travel far enough if MK doesn't land close to you. <.<

I'd prefer not to assume incompetence.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

I don't risk glide tossing turnips at Meta Knight since if he shields or ground dodges it he can punish it mostly with Shuttle Loop, aerial, grab, or etc. That's just me though.

 

[¿Qué?]

I don't risk glide tossing turnips at Meta Knight since if he shields or ground dodges it he can punish it mostly with Shuttle Loop, aerial, grab, or etc. That's just me though.

I don't glide toss towards someone, like ever...

Unless they're on the edge of the stage, I'll do it to put them in an uncomfortable position.

Other than that, I only really approach with Attacks and save turnips for covering options.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

I don't glide toss towards someone, like ever...

Unless they're on the edge of the stage, I'll do it to put them in an uncomfortable position.

Other than that, I only really approach with Attacks and save turnips for covering options.

Yeah. I mostly forward glide toss when the opponent is off stage. Other I prefer reverse glide toss to give me space but I don't do it too much and usually not with fast characters but it is always on the situation rather than blindly. I hate upper glide tossing because my controller is feeling its ages and the joystick isn't handling as well as it use to. I tried using those new black classic controllers and boy they're different. Not use to grabbing button being on top of the shield button.

 

[gantrain05]

if you are good, you can glide toss almost halfway across final D........more than enough distance to catch a retreating *****nado MK.

 

[Meru.]

You guys do know you can't DI tornado, right? So all your posts about hitting him at the top with n-airs and crud really don't matter... Nicole is only "good" at doing it because her opponents mess up a lot.

Fsmash works when they tornado at poor times.

And I've no clue what you guys are talking about when you say to glide toss out of shield to punish it. Turnips don't travel faro enough if MK doesn't land close to you. <.<
I'd prefer not to assume incompetence.

You cant SDI tornado, but you can still DI it, especially if the character youre playing with is the second floatiest in the game. Unless youre really in the middle of tornado I guess.

And if you are fast enouh, the glide toss should really hit.

 

[Eddie G]

You guys do know you can't DI tornado, right? So all your posts about hitting him at the top with n-airs and crud really don't matter... Nicole is only "good" at doing it because her opponents mess up a lot.

Fsmash works when they tornado at poor times.

And I've no clue what you guys are talking about when you say to glide toss out of shield to punish it. Turnips don't travel far enough if MK doesn't land close to you. <.<

I'd prefer not to assume incompetence.

Funny since Kel knows the Peach matchup extremely well, uses nado and the other keep away tactics wisely, and I still punish him with everything you just listed when I play him. Quick reaction and good SDI upon contact with nado (if caught) will go a long way in the matchup.

 

[Dark.Pch]

You guys do know you can't DI tornado, right? So all your posts about hitting him at the top with n-airs and crud really don't matter... Nicole is only "good" at doing it because her opponents mess up a lot.

Fsmash works when they tornado at poor times.

And I've no clue what you guys are talking about when you say to glide toss out of shield to punish it. Turnips don't travel far enough if MK doesn't land close to you. <.<

I'd prefer not to assume incompetence.

You can't SDI out of the tornado. But Peach is one of the few that can break out of it if you Just Hold up. If you do that Peach breaks out 80% of the time. And from there you can float out of it or just Nair drop. I made a video of this.

Also, you can Actually catch meta with a glide toss from shield if he is a few steps away. Her longiest glide toss that she has can atcually catch meta. You can also time the glide toss to hit him just as the move ends. If he lands near, you can Z trop the turnip on him to a Bair. this can help stop some of his OoS options. Reall if he side steps. The turnip or Peach would hit him. If he stays in shield, you can just roll away for space. or shield his air attack out of shield and take it from there.

You space Fsmash, and it is hitting meta out of it. its a certain % that an attack has to be to hit meta out of it. I can't remember the number. Ftilt can hit him out of it. But I find it easier and safer to Fsmash him out of it.

 

[Nicole]

DanGR any vids I post of me v an MK, it's usually a player from my region who I play with very often and they're very aware of how tornado works and how they can do it so as to be more effective and prevent me from breaking out of it with nair. Breaking out with nair is still pretty do-able.

Anyways, why have all the ratios dropped? Peach is not that bad of a character, guys, and most of her matchups are even or in her favor. She has about 7 or 8 that are in her disadvantage, and only about 3 or 4 of those are significantly difficult (Snake, Falco, MK, and maybe Marth or Toon Link). She actually has pretty good matchups...

 

[gantrain05]

hey, if i had my way, i'd put everything no less than 50/50 other than toon link cuz i hate hate HATE toon link, everything else is so totally winnable tho.