Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[Eddie G]

I still beat GnFree.

 

[Airgemini]

I think the match-ups should be updated with their respective rediscussion threads. Along with some of what Rick said obviously.

 

[Eddie G]

And a disadvantage against Charizard? I completely disagree.

 

[z00ted]

I dont think Wario will ever be even.

 

[Eddie G]

I dont think Wario will ever be even.

Agreed. He can fight the matchup evenly with enough effort and a style adjustment (similar to Pikachu vs Marth), but it shouldn't, and will never, be even on paper.

 

[Nicole]

^does it matter what a ratio is on paper?

practice is what matters, imo. people always mention peach's grab release on wario but its not exactly easy grabbing him. i'm not saying it isn't an advantage, but it looks better on paper than when you actually try doing it.

 

[_Kadaj_]

<3 Nicole

 

[z00ted]

Alright I have alot of time on my hands tonight so I guess I'll give some insight on these.

Charizard - Is this really a disadvantage?

Even, we can both rack up damage very easily but Peach has more kill moves that are easier to land than Charizard. I can sorta see how this matchup could be in his favor. I believe his ftilt and bair can outrange alot of our moves, he can upb our dair or just simply utilt it, and his rock smash is super good at punishing our mistakes. If he gets ones in, we're basically halfway dead.

Falcon and Ganon - Do we really beat Falcon more than we beat Ganon?

Falcon and Ganon are both heavy advantage matchups in my opinion. Their moveset is very linear and easy to predict, they don't have many guaranteed kill moves and they both hug the ground and are simple to string against.

IC's - Currently being discussed, I think 60-40 is far too optimistic, needs to be closer to even

Even. We are discussing this currently so I won't say much, but I definitely think the Ice Climbers' metagame is evolving faster than ours and it is getting closer and closer to even than the 65:35 or whatever it was before.

Ike - As much as I'll have to swallow my pride and no doubt the Ike users will get a cheap laugh out of this, I think this needs to be moved down to it being closer to even. I think Peach has an advantage over Ike, I'm not going to lie because her Turnips/keep away/gimp game but...clearly something isn't right when everytime a Peach goes up against a good Ike she doesn't win

Slight faovr Peach. Peach can rack a good amount of damage, can camp, and can space well but Ike has a quick jab that can cancel most of our startups, has long range, and very reliable quick kill moves. I think this matchup is really dependent on how much matchup experience you have. If you really know what your doing I believe it is in Peach's favor slightly.

Ivysaur - Not a clue, surely even at best for Ivy

Peach destroys Ivysaur. I can't see anything he has that would even slightly counter us. Not to mention we have an amazing ledge game. Heavy advantage Peach.

Jigglypuff - Who the heck even plays this character? Do you reckon we could get away with slapping an advantage on this one because nobody cares about them?

Advantage. Peach can keep up with Jigglypuff's runaway game, her nair destroys almost all of Jigglypuffs options, fair has more range than all of her aerials, and ftilt kills her at like 95%.


DeDeDe - This needs to go down to a disadvantage imo. Bair is gay and he doesn't die

Disadvantage. At first I was skeptical about everyone saying that this matchup was bad for us but after playing Atmosk and Fogo countless amounts of times I definitely agree. This matchup has to do alot with how well your opponent can SDI. If the DDD has amazing SDI skill this matchup can be hell. You will have to be wary of your dairs which is basically where you want to get most of your damage because of his weight. So you gotta switch to weaving in and out with turnips, grabs, and spaced aerials. Worst of all he doesn't ****ing die and your fair will probably be stale. Ugh, this matchup can be really irritating. DDD is a definite disadvantage for me at the moment.

Kirby - Urgh I can't remember what the verdict was for this. Even off the top of my head

Slight advantage Peach. I don't ever want to lose to a Kirby. I've told this to alot alot alot of people haha. Kirby is just so linear in my eyes. All he does is bair and try to pressure you, but Peach pressure so much better. If he's bairing you, just stick on the ground shield and do an attack out of shield or just grab him. When your on the ground just camp, he has no projectiles, but his grab is pretty quick so watch out for that. Kirby is the kind of character that you can do real well against until you get hit. When he gets the hit (similar to our character) he can start winning. Never let the Kirby gain momentum. If he does get you to a higher percentage his bair is most likely stale so he's not going to be killing you in the air, simply float lol. He wont be hitting you with that fsmash or any other smash for that matter if you're on the ground. Easyyyyy

Link - See Jigglypuff

Advantage Peach. It's like Toon Link, except you can actually catch him, kill him, and string him.

Llmacario - wtf

Lucario - needs to even at best for us, slight disadvantage is what people agreed on imo

Slight disadvantage. F Lucario, I can do super well against him, then get ****ing *****. I'll never understand this matchup. Thanks alot Trela.

Lucas - See Jigglypuff and Link

Super free. Heavy Disadvantage.

Luigi - Everyone seems to hate Luigi after MLG because of his sloooooow approach game. Probably an advantage? Again, no idea

Even. Luigi is a bad character. Super bad, but his kill power and combo potential is superb. I think Luigi should be wayyy lower on the tier list simply because he cant appraoch and all of his moves are so easy to prevent and counter. Stick back and camp then when he's approaching predict it and nair or something. Save your fair for the kill, and don't put yourself in too many high risk high reward situations. It sucks dying against Luigi early because he forces you to approach. Keep the lead.

Mario - See Jigglypuff, Link and Lucas, although Mario mains have a tendancy to be almost as violent as some of us when discussing MU's (sorry guys ) so I'm not sure they'd be too happy about that

Advantage. Mario is free, I hate discussing low tier characters.

MK - is this really 35:65? It isn't worse then? Who was that MK that Nicole beat who was good again?

Heavy Disadvantage. If we are talking ratios, I'm thinking like 30:70. Everyone has been on this wagon about freepulling and bonewalking and **** that won't even help us 1% in this matchup. At the moment I don't think anyone even halfway understands this matchup. A defensive, slow Peach, is the only way to win this in my opinion. The problem is Metaknight has so many options against us, and is so quick it's really hard to know what to do in every given situation. I like watching Nicole play this matchup, I feel as though for the most part she handles it pretty well because she plays pretty slow and thinks out what is going to happen next. Technical skill is NOT what we are looking for when trying to beat Metaknight, it's being smarter than our opponent. Which is really ****ing hard in our current metagame considering how many options he has, experience against Peach, and basically a free counterpick. **** metaknight.

G&W - Erm...I dunno, Praxis' era is long gone, do people even fight/win vs this guy anymore?

Slight disadvantage. I don't know alot about Game and Watch, but I never saw him as too hard. He can kill early though, so watch out for that.

Ness - See Jigglypuff, Link, Lucas and Mario

Slight advantage. Don't wanna discuss Ness.

Olimar - Probably should be closer to even than advantage

Slight Olimar advantage. Yep, I went there. This matchup is no longer in our favor. I don't care how many times you tell me "Oh, but our nair and bair blah blah blah can kill his pikmin!" or ... "Our dair has so much priority!" lol... shut the hell up. This **** worked back in 08-09? But it's not working these days. Good Olimars have learned to deal with this ****. Throw Pikmin in good situations, uptilt our dair in the correct situation and have found alot of ways to string us. Olimar can **** you up, and you can die like within thirty seconds if you're not entirely focused. His usmash is ridiculous, and he has tons of grab options, and he kills early. In our early metagame this was clearly in our advantage, but these days it's in their favor. I never feel entirely confident going against and Olimar. I wanna hear what everyone else has to think about this.

Pit - Not a clue but I think it should be changed to even just to be safe

...............At HOBO 29 (I won Mid Tier Singles) I managed to beat Esca's Pit 3-2 in Grand Finals with a total of thirty nine minutes ... one minute was spared in the ENTIRE set. It was like.. the worst **** of my life. (egotistical) I will give any Peach $100 if they can beat Esca's Pit without an edge grab limit. I had to BEAT him with that ****. So ****ing dumb. Pit is a lil pansy *** *****. There probably will be a ledge grab limit of fifty so if the Pit is halfway decent he will abuse the **** out of you with it, and there is nothing you can do about it. You basically have to sit, camp, farm, and hope you get a good pull because there is no way in hell you wanna go down there with him. When your percentage is high he will try to come up and kill you like a lil ***** and have a more stronger lead. Just play EXTREMELY smart and read his kill moves, string him. I really.. don't know what to say on this lil *****. If there is a ledge grab limit of 50. Prolly 40:60. No ledge grab 10:90.

If only I had the videos :/

ROB - No idea

Um.. slight advatange Peach. Rob can camp more efficently than Peach, but he's easy to string and has predictable kill moves. Rob is boring, nothing much to say here.

Sheik - No idea, our advantage maybe?

Sheik is super free. Advantage Peach. Peach hugs the ground, is easy to string, has no really reliable kill move, is weaker than Peach (lol), just sucks ***.

Snake - I am very skeptical that this is merely 40:60

LOL Snake

Heavy disadvantage Peach. 35:65 In my opinion. You guys aren't playing AMAZING Snakes...
I have to deal with Razer's punk *** like every week. I play him like thirty times and probably beat him four times out of all of em. Snake is so broken. He has a guaranteed kill move, can camp harder than us, better ground game, like every move can kill. lol. someone please come play razer so you can share my pain.

Sonic - Should probably moved down to even or something :/

Lol.. I know nothing about this queer.

TL - Ermmmmm this is also probably a disadvantage

This is 40:60. It's simply a disadvantage. Toon Link is hard to chase, has crazy camping potential, is pretty good at killing Peach, and has great aerial options. I'm pretty good at this one though.

Wario - This is even I think

Nah. Advantage Peach. I never play slow in this matchup. I love this matchup so much cause Wario doesn't like pressure. Make smart choices will just forcing him near the edge and I don't think Wario can do anything about it. He stuns or whatever, so he's real easy to string and we have a guaranteed grab release kill on him. Our bair like outranges all of his aerials. I mean what more could we want? Stop thinking so much vs Wario, just play him.

Wolf - Did we say this was even or Wolf's favour?

Slight disadvantage. I money matched Choice at Dallas and was going to win 2-0 but I self destructed on my last stock with 4% and him at like 120%, then proceeded to counterpicking Battlefield his favorite stage, and barely lost. Wolf can be tough. He has a pretty good method of getting us out of the air (laser) and can hold us back with his bair. Hug the ground vs Wolf and shield alot. When you see an opening just start dairing him. Save your fair, Wolf can be hard to kill.

Yoshi - No idea

Lol Yoshi is so ****ing free. I've never lost to one.

Dude this guy is just like Wario but he can't kill. He has no out of shield options?!?! That's like Peach heaven, just run up to him, wait for him to do some stupid **** then immideately proceed to racking up damage. His fasted kill moves are all in the air, so just stay on the ground when you're about to die. Yoshi hates pressure so much, and will probably try to do that lame *** egg camping **** on the ledge. Just proceed to the other side of the stage and start planking with him. If you have the lead he will squirm his way back onto the stage.

Oh yeah one more thing. ALL Yoshi mains are ****ing weird. Don't let their creepiness get to you when you are playing them. That may be why we lose, idk.

Zelda - Lol

LOL

ZSS - Who still uses this character?

Even. I've played every ZSS that is worth mentioning besides Dazwa or whatever, and have beat every one except Nick Riddle (where I went even). It's pretty fun and easy, until you get hit with a stun and then it all rolls downhill. I think you can play however you want just be really cautious on where you land with your float, that can destroy you. Nair ***** so muchhhh lol. ZSS doesn't have anything to beat it. Oh yeah, her OOS options suck and she has like no shield grab. If you're good against Yoshi you should be good against ZSS.

triple o g skillmatic

time to watch Full Metal Alchemist!

probably a bit of errors but I dont care!

 

[Eddie G]

^does it matter what a ratio is on paper?

practice is what matters, imo. people always mention peach's grab release on wario but its not exactly easy grabbing him. i'm not saying it isn't an advantage, but it looks better on paper than when you actually try doing it.

Indeed, that's exactly what I was advocating...

 

[gantrain05]

i honestly don't look at MU ratios, i don't really give a damn about them at all, i know exactly what i can handle and what i can't. I suck vs olimars, i always have, regardless of the 08 "oh its so free 70/30 peach" bs i still lost that MU. whereas i've always ***** vs diddy wario and IC's and all snakes aside from jokers. apparently its like 65/35 snake advantage but to me i don't care, it feels even. i know what i have to do to win.

and white dress peach has a 100/0 advantage over green dress peach, thought u should all know.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Hmm...I still say that the match Kirby Versus Peach is still even. I can agree with Snake. I got a good laugh out of the Pit section.

 

[z00ted]

guys im not saying my opinion is like agree or die, you're free to have your own opinion..

im sorry if I offended you gan? lol sound sorta saltyyyy

 

[Nicole]

wait does SOMEONE else besides me think wario is even? NO WAY!! (i agree with you rick, but theres no point in arguing it...)

no ****in way mk is worse than 4:6 for us. ill is right that technical crap is pretty pointless against him. you really have to watch him and react to what he does. the hardest part about him is that he can do NOTHING. that would be the mk i'd hate to play, one that just waits for you. most of them don't do that. (ps i beat d-phat in an MM if that is the good mk that you're referring to, he's pretty good - i think he usually gets top 5 at TX tournaments, ill can say more about him i'm sure).
peach can easily combat him if both chars are in the air and she can also stomp his grounded approaches with jab, sh dair, ftilt. she has a million options against tornado, i love tornado because its one of his most used and most punishable moves. peach shouldn't approach him on the ground, that is where she is pretty helpless. its hard to recover but its perfectly do-able with practice and with full understanding of his shuttle loop range. umbrella saves you almost flawlessly if you recover low and recoving high you can just wait him out. both are slightly dangerous. however every char recovering against mk has a slightly dangerous time of it. he isn't the best char in the game for nothing.

ill's ratios are pretty correct except for lolimar, that is a solid 6:4 for us. i agree with snake for sure, i think he's really bad for us, i COULD call it 4:6 but i'd rather call it worse.

I also think DDD is 50:50 and Falco wasn't mentioned, but that's prolly 4:6.

 

[gantrain05]

well if ur talkin bout gay MK's who don't wanna do anything but stand there, i'm sure u played jaka, aka razor, aka whatever other tags he used. he literally never approached when i played him(all the time) he knew exactly how to handle the peach MU.

and ill im not salty, i just hate olimar he's ghey and nobody can change my mind about that. i'll argue MU ratios tho, i just like to argue cuz im a **** like that.

 

[deepseadiva]

rofl @ Yoshi mains comment

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

I'm just going to say about Snake that he is overpowered. Heck I use him and I find he KO's others pretty darn easy. I also use Kirby a lot but too many people use Bair with him because it semi-spikes. I always believed there is more to Kirby than Bair but heck.

 

[z00ted]

and ill im not salty, i just hate olimar he's ghey and nobody can change my mind about that. i'll argue MU ratios tho, i just like to argue cuz im a **** like that.

k cool, i thought you hated me or something.

I feel the same way about Olimar lol, we probably have similar playstyles.

 

[UltimateRazer]

illmatic, despair in my presence! wahahahaha!

snake > peach tho.

 

[z00ted]

you're telling me you wake up at 2:42 AM and name search yourself?

sad.

 

[UltimateRazer]

one, i didnt wake up. good job on that one buddy!

second, your 3 bucks from your free peach payed for my dollar meal lunch for 3 days.

sad.

 

[z00ted]

one, i can only assume you were asleep because lil razer needs his sleep

second, you shouldnt use second you should say first of all to replace one and second of all to replace second or just name the one 1 and the second 2


third (3?), **** you.

 

[Thebest1pj]

Lcancel says olimar beats peach


btw dont underestimate low tiers

 

[gantrain05]

i think olimar beats peach, at least....an olimar that knows the MU...which should be the only kind of olimar we are talking about.

too bad the only olimars i've ever played are fin0, cook, and some randoms....i could really use the MU experience lol.

 

[Meru.]

I'd looooooove to play this guy someday cause I still think we severely beat Olimar... granted the only experience I have with Olimar is a random Spanish (?) guy whose name I don't even know and the unreliable **** that is wi-suck.

Bowser - No idea, needs to be rediscussed. God I need to get on the UK scene, there's a reaaaaally good Bowser over here

Good idea.

Charizard - I have no idea why this is a disadvantage, I would have said its at least even or in our favour

Never played a PT either. I find it hard to believe that he beats us though...

Falcon and Ganon - Do we really beat Falcon more than we beat Ganon?

Yes, we certainly do. Peach is probably in Falcon's top 3 of worst match-ups, alongside MK and Olimar. With only a bare amount of match-up knowledge, you can completely annihilate Falcons with Peach. Everything she does, will get him *****. Throw out some turnips and aerials, combo him till 120, throw offstage, get a drink, edgehog. At least Ganondorf is somewhat scarier.

IC's - Currently being discussed, I think 60-40 is far too optimistic, needs to be closer to even

Meh... I see 60-40 as a slight advantage (with 55-45 being practically even). I do find this a slight advantage.

Ike - As much as I'll have to swallow my pride and no doubt the Ike users will get a cheap laugh out of this, I think this needs to be moved down to it being closer to even. I think Peach has an advantage over Ike, I'm not going to lie because her Turnips/keep away/gimp game but...clearly something isn't right when everytime a Peach goes up against a good Ike she doesn't win

What Ikes have beaten Peaches then?

Ivysaur - Not a clue, surely even at best for Ivy

Dunno

Jigglypuff - Who the heck even plays this character? Do you reckon we could get away with slapping an advantage on this one because nobody cares about them?

Even if we would care, this is much better than a 55-45.

DeDeDe - This needs to go down to a disadvantage imo. Bair is gay and he doesn't die

I disagree to be honest... Bair is overrated, it's a good move but it doesn't shut her down at all. As for the fact he doesn't die, just be patient, keep hitting him away and don't get hit yourself (which is not impossible after sending him off-stage). In the end it's more frustrating for him than for you.

Kirby - Urgh I can't remember what the verdict was for this. Even off the top of my head

We beat him imo but I seem to be the only one thinking this.

Link - See Jigglypuff

Link is fine as a 6-4 imo. Just a slight advantage because Link does have some stuff on us.

Llmacario - wtf

100-0 our favor, I've stopped the cyclus

Lucario - needs to even at best for us, slight disadvantage is what people agreed on imo

No Lucarios here...

Lucas - See Jigglypuff and Link

Peach kinda eats Lucas as well...

Luigi - Everyone seems to hate Luigi after MLG because of his sloooooow approach game. Probably an advantage? Again, no idea

Don't really know anymore... Camping works reaaaally good against him and if you don't get reckless, you can deal a high amount of damage and still get away (**** his Nair)... but it's still pretty even. One of the few match-ups I'd use 55-45, it's pretty even but we have little stuff.

Mario - See Jigglypuff, Link and Lucas, although Mario mains have a tendancy to be almost as violent as some of us when discussing MU's (sorry guys ) so I'm not sure they'd be too happy about that

Doesn't matter because we do have a nice advantage on him.

MK - is this really 35:65? It isn't worse then? Who was that MK that Nicole beat who was good again?

Definitely not worse

G&W - Erm...I dunno, Praxis' era is long gone, do people even fight/win vs this guy anymore?

Yes, I used to play with one of the best GW's and it's even imo.

Ness - See Jigglypuff, Link, Lucas and Mario

A good Ness is a pain in the *** omfg... Still I think it's an advantage but nothing better than 6-4.

Olimar - Probably should be closer to even than advantage

Nope =3

Pit - Not a clue but I think it should be changed to even just to be safe

Nah I think if you know Pit's flaws, it is an advantage for us. He has little range, gets easily pressured and has a fair amount of lag.

ROB - No idea

No idea

Sheik - No idea, our advantage maybe?

Without a doubt.

Snake - I am very skeptical that this is merely 40:60

This is most definitely not worse that 40:60. He isn't that hard.

Sonic - Should probably moved down to even or something :/

Denied.

TL - Ermmmmm this is also probably a disadvantage

Everyone says so but I find this extremely even ;_;. But Im literally the only one, so lets keep it at a disadvantage.

Wario - This is even I think

Oh nononono, this match-up is extremely gay and she gays him harder.

Wolf - Did we say this was even or Wolf's favour?

Even

Yoshi - No idea

Dunno either... He can be really annoying XD

Zelda - Lol

Poor girl... if you underestimate her you'll get ***** and she does punish hard but once you know her, she's basically a free win, especially since Peach is one of her harder match-ups.

ZSS - Who still uses this character?

A lot of people, she's not uncommon. I'd say even for now.

I personally think that her match ups are...rather optimistic considering her 2010 performance

I have to admit I think I'm quite optimistic as well

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

If I get my facts wrong then someone please let me know


Wario - Nicole lost to Kryst...whatever it is, in MLG and KB has been continually beaten by Blue Rogue. Raz just recently got beaten by Futile

I have pretty decent Wario experience and I think that its our advantage only on stages like FD and bizarrely Yoshi's Island. I think it's even on Smashville and BF. You are never going to get to play on FD so you ca rule that out straight. Bair shuts down Wario's air game but only if he throws the first hit or doesn't get his hit out in time. Wario's grab is gay and catching up to him is a *****. Worse still, the match takes ages and this gives Wario more time to run around or regain the lead AND it allows him to charge up farts and get stupidly early kills that make no sense whatsoever
I keep changing my mind about this MU...

Charizard - I don't think he beats her at all, its just this hasn't been changed for ages lol

Falcon and Ganondorf - My question was, do we really beat Falcon more than we beat Ganon? Falcon atm is 70:30 and Ganon is 65:35. I think these need to be swapped or we make the Ganon MU worse for Ganon cause I think Falcon has an easier time than Ganon in...well, everything

Ike - San has beaten Illmatic, Ryo and Mr Doom constantly outplace Peach in pretty much every tourney they're in with Ike and Kyon has lost to either one of the two above, I think it was Ryo
Praxis ***** the absolute crap out of that one Ike he fights which makes me somewhat hopeful and I really do think she has an advantage if people actually play correctly but...I'm finding it very hard to defend this

Olimar - Really stupid MU and Peach's keep losing to him (as far as I'm aware, what are people's track record with this guy?) so I'm skeptical about the advantage



I think Peach has had a very easy ride during 2009. Its clear that 2010 hasn't been as successful and I think its combination of some of our best players quitting and other characters getting more developed because they were neglected in the early years of Brawl

A few socks need to be pulled up imo


This isn't me trying to be a **** or being pessimistic - this is me being realistic. Currently, Peach's MU spread is not matching her tourney performance and there has got to be a reason for it

 

[gantrain05]

i can't really give any recent input on ike, last time i played ike was MR.DOOM probably over a year ago, i won but not by much and that is literally the only noteworthy ike i've played.

as for olimar i've already stated my feelings on him.

wario....i'm gonna have to stick with peach advantage, i've never had TOO much trouble dealing with wario, but again it has been a while, but i have beaten notable warios in tourney/friendlies and im gonna stick by 6-4 peach advantage on this one.

Snake...its a tough one to call, some people think 65/35 others think 50/50, personally i think we have all the tools needed to beat him, its just a matter of being very smart of how you approach the matchup.

Kirby is imo slight advantage to kirby, yeah he's got Bair we all know that, it is a good safe move, he's just got a better gimping game and tends to live for a while in this MU as you are forced to space him with Fairs and such, unless u can land a good Usmash or lucky Fsmash he'll probably live to 140% on an average stock.

D3 is imo definately his advantage but not by much, his Bair will shut down peaches arials if he times and spaces them well, his CG while it doesn't do a terrible amount of damage, actually will just put us in a situation we don't want to be in. If a D3 can read you well it can be absolute hell trying to get back on stage. i'd have to say that ON stage we have a slight advantage over him, but offstage he ***** us, his Bair is much quicker than any of our arials aside from maybe our Uair, but thats not really a reliable defensive get back on stage attack. add that to his rediculous fall speed and he's hard to get away from. go high and u risk getting an Utilt when u get back on stage, go low and he might drop right on your head and Bair.

i don't feel like going over IC's again, nicole already went over most of the stuff in another thread.

and yes...gannon is much scarier than falcon, he can kill you with anything and has decent priority, whereas falcon is just terrible =P

 

[mountain_tiger]

If I get my facts wrong then someone please let me know


Wario - Nicole lost to Kryst...whatever it is, in MLG and KB has been continually beaten by Blue Rogue. Raz just recently got beaten by Futile

I have pretty decent Wario experience and I think that its our advantage only on stages like FD and bizarrely Yoshi's Island. I think it's even on Smashville and BF. You are never going to get to play on FD so you ca rule that out straight. Bair shuts down Wario's air game but only if he throws the first hit or doesn't get his hit out in time. Wario's grab is gay and catching up to him is a *****. Worse still, the match takes ages and this gives Wario more time to run around or regain the lead AND it allows him to charge up farts and get stupidly early kills that make no sense whatsoever
I keep changing my mind about this MU...

I've generally considered the MU to be even, but that's just me... Whoever has the most patience and best anger control techniques wins.

Falcon and Ganondorf - My question was, do we really beat Falcon more than we beat Ganon? Falcon atm is 70:30 and Ganon is 65:35. I think these need to be swapped or we make the Ganon MU worse for Ganon cause I think Falcon has an easier time than Ganon in...well, everything

Falcon has a slightly better ranged grab, a faster grab and better tilts. That makes him slightly harder, but they're still Peach's two easiest MUs.

A few socks need to be pulled up imo

Nice metaphor.

 

[Eddie G]

Nicole lost to Kryst...whatever it is, in MLG

Nicole is self-admittedly bad against Wario. Not much can really be taken from her losing to one. She more of a MK/Olimar specialist at the moment.

and KB has been continually beaten by Blue Rogue.

Incorrect. Blue Rogue and I have pretty much an even set count against one another over the course of our encounters in tournament, give or take a set or two. One of my losses to him was also against his MK, not his Wario. He won't use the latter much on me anymore, if at all.

I've beaten Omniswell 2-0 at a Michigan tournament I went to a while back (I forgot the date, but the tournament was LoLiS 2 or something like that), including a win on Brinstar.

I've beaten Malcolm 2-0 in a set at Pound IV. Not much to say here.

I've also only played Krystedez in one $10 MM set at MLG; it went to last game, last hit with him pulling the win. Not much to say here since I believe it takes more than one close set to really determine anything on either end.

I still firmly believe that Peach has a clear advantage in the matchup. Wario can punish mistakes really hard, but with the zoning options Peach has against him, most of those said mistakes kind of have to be wide open and hand delivered... (with a bow)

 

[Nicole]

yeah lol me losing to a wario is no surprise haha. jlo beat hunger awhile back...i mean i think its even but i'm well aware that i'm biased about it so you guys call that one whatever you want. and that's probably right.

peach beats olimar, you guys are impatient and dont punish all that you can most likely. he's stupid because you cant really play that aggressively against him even though it seems like you should. you just have to wait for opportunities - you cant miss them cause they dont come that often. peach can wreck him if she plays right, but that MU takes alot of learning. i play with an olimar all the time and i still didnt get it down until a few months ago.

but i mean if L cancel says olimar beats peach then we should prolly listen to him. conicidentally, i should prolly listen to a bunch of ******** mk mains telling me that its 3:7 for peach against mk as well, and i'll just know that i'm that much better for beating mk all the time (but i cant win a 6:4 MU against wario...). ITS ALL CLEAR TO ME NOW.

seriously the olimar mu takes alot of work and he does have some good options but he gets gimped really well by peach thanks to the combination of items + moves, her moves beat ALL his pikmin moves which is practically his moveset, he has a few things he can use against her but there are situatinos where he has basically no option except to take a risk - peach should watch for these and know how to punish him. you have to bait him into doing something - he isnt falco, he cant phantasm away when you get close, he has to do SOMETHING, and peach can punish anything and everything he can do if she just reacts to what that is instead of being overaggressive and trying to **** - thats what he wants, he wants you to approach because he cannot. you have to get close, but let him make the first move. hit him once and he's going to have a tough time getting away from you. its getting that first hit thats the hard part.

 

[clowsui]

it's not bizarre for peach to win on YI, wario sucks on that stage

 

[z00ted]

I want a rematch against San.

He beat me like when I just started and I did fairly well against him.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Incorrect

I'm basing my stuff off of the stuff in our result thread. According to that, out of the 4 tournaments in the Peach Tournament results thread that both you and BR have been in, he's outplaced you in 3 them and came 2nd to you in the other one
This isn't a dig at you or anything, if I'm wrong then I'm wrong but that's where I'm coming from

I wasn't aware of your good track record vs all the other Wario's you'd beaten though so apologies for that

it's not bizarre for peach to win on YI, wario sucks on that stage

Peach sucks on YI's aswell, that's what I found so surprising

I want a rematch against San.

He beat me like when I just started and I did fairly well against him.

Very true

 

[Eddie G]

I'm basing my stuff off of the stuff in our result thread. According to that, out of the 4 tournaments in the Peach Tournament results thread that both you and BR have been in, he's outplaced you in 3 them and came 2nd to you in the other one
This isn't a dig at you or anything, if I'm wrong then I'm wrong but that's where I'm coming from

It's all good Rick, I know you never mean any harm. Yeah I kind of stopped reporting my results in that thread so it's pretty outdated on my info (I've attended a lot of events within the past 3 months). There are also a couple which I didn't bother to report in the past because of the attendance requirement; I didn't see the point in doing so.

With that said...I don't base anything on one player outplacing another, especially matchup determinations. Half of the time that Blue outplaces me, we never meet in bracket, so he gets a bunch of MKs, Diddies, (and so on) to nom his way through; and therefore I have no direct impact on his placing (either positively or negatively). Placement comparisons don't really matter much here, and nothing can really be determined from that as far as the Peach/Wario matchup is concerned.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

With that said...I don't base anything on one player outplacing another, especially matchup determinations. Half of the time that Blue outplaces me, we never meet in bracket, so he gets a bunch of MKs, Diddies, (and so on) to nom his way through; and therefore I have no direct impact on his placing (either positively or negatively)

Ahhhhh I was wondering if that was the case but I wasn't too sure

In that case, disregard what I said earlier

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

If I get my facts wrong then someone please let me know


Wario - Nicole lost to Kryst...whatever it is, in MLG and KB has been continually beaten by Blue Rogue. Raz just recently got beaten by Futile

I have pretty decent Wario experience and I think that its our advantage only on stages like FD and bizarrely Yoshi's Island. I think it's even on Smashville and BF. You are never going to get to play on FD so you ca rule that out straight. Bair shuts down Wario's air game but only if he throws the first hit or doesn't get his hit out in time. Wario's grab is gay and catching up to him is a *****. Worse still, the match takes ages and this gives Wario more time to run around or regain the lead AND it allows him to charge up farts and get stupidly early kills that make no sense whatsoever
I keep changing my mind about this MU...

Charizard - I don't think he beats her at all, its just this hasn't been changed for ages lol

Falcon and Ganondorf - My question was, do we really beat Falcon more than we beat Ganon? Falcon atm is 70:30 and Ganon is 65:35. I think these need to be swapped or we make the Ganon MU worse for Ganon cause I think Falcon has an easier time than Ganon in...well, everything

Ike - San has beaten Illmatic, Ryo and Mr Doom constantly outplace Peach in pretty much every tourney they're in with Ike and Kyon has lost to either one of the two above, I think it was Ryo
Praxis ***** the absolute crap out of that one Ike he fights which makes me somewhat hopeful and I really do think she has an advantage if people actually play correctly but...I'm finding it very hard to defend this

Olimar - Really stupid MU and Peach's keep losing to him (as far as I'm aware, what are people's track record with this guy?) so I'm skeptical about the advantage



I think Peach has had a very easy ride during 2009. Its clear that 2010 hasn't been as successful and I think its combination of some of our best players quitting and other characters getting more developed because they were neglected in the early years of Brawl

A few socks need to be pulled up imo


This isn't me trying to be a **** or being pessimistic - this is me being realistic. Currently, Peach's MU spread is not matching her tourney performance and there has got to be a reason for it

I've only lost to Ryo once in the 5 times in tourney we have played in if not more. He hates playing me.
Our Matches are starting to become emotional though

 

[L_Cancel]

Errr. Namesearching ftw. I don't think I ever said Oli beats Peach, PJ.

I do feel like the MU is really close to even though. Imo at least. x:

 

[lloDownedu74]

Olimar used to be one of my worst matchups, but now, it's pretty easy for me (even on wifi, where it's impossible to punish anything olimar does). For me, the biggest thing is to get him off the ground, which makes hitting him so much easier. He's still an annoying character, but I think its in our favor. I say 57.5-42.5 or something

EDIT: K I just lost to "the best wifi olimar" (literally) in a wifi tourney 3-2 in LF. Imo, if you can get a stock lead, this matchup is a piece of cake. Olimar can't kill for his life without his usmash, so if you literally float as high as you can for as long as you can, evading him all the time, there isn't much he can do. His uair is pretty easy to predict and dodge, he can't really try to get on the platforms himself because then you can just drop down to the main stage and run away, and I guess up+B is just a crappy move (although it can hit you). Once again, this is revolving around my time-outy style, so it might not be "fun" (It's definitely fun for me :D ) but it gets the job done. The problem is getting the lead xD

Wario is also in our favor. Bair beats his air game, and I'm pretty sure Peach has some amazing grab release/infinite/autokills on him. I haven't played any good Warios except for the ones that play wifi, but the matchup is pretty easy. I once played this Wario who lives in Mexico that actually tried to time me out xD Obviously he got timed out himself. I say 6-4

I don't understand how to play the CF matchup just because I never play any good CFs.... ever... I've heard that ftilt wrecks all his approaches, which has worked in the past, but besides that, idk. Ganon is easy, tho... 65-35?

ummmmmmm... For me, Toon Link is 45-55... Basically, if TL gets the first kill, then he wins. If Peach gets the first kill, then its likely that she will win, but TL can get the lead back somewhat easily and proceed to win. I think this is just because of my campy playstyle, but idk

Snake... My least favorite matchup. I play decent snakes on wifi, which amplifies Snake's brokenness, making him impossible to beat. Explosives severely limit movement, he kills at 100%, his ftilt does like 30%, and overall he's just broken. I've had to resort to timing the better snakes out because its so hard to get the kill. 30-70 on wifi, 35-65 offline

MK.... My 2nd least favorite matchup on wifi, but my favorite matchup online. I'm pretty bad at this myself, but it's just fun to try to beat the best character in the game with like an average character. Same ratio as snake

Dedede.... This can be annoying. I'm used to playing campy, so my style gets destroyed by dedede. From what I've seen, if you can get past his bairs, waddle dees, and everything else, then he becomes pretty easy. If you can get inside everything to the point that he's sitting there in his shield, then you can just start putting up the dair, bair, fair and jab pressure until he manages to break out... I say 45-55, just because of his early killing/not dying and the difficulty of getting inside

I haven't really been playing against many other good characters recently. 90% of good people on wifi use MK/Snake (lol), and the rest are like high tiers

 

[gantrain05]

whaaaa? no way. falcon is so much more free than ganon. falcon is just fast....with no kill moves on peach, he can't chain any attacks vs peach and u can literally just not die, ganon on the other hand has actual priority, everything is a kill move and can punish mistakes HARD. bottom line, both are free, just don't **** up vs ganon.

 

[culexus・wau]

His uair is pretty easy. to predict and dodge, he can't really try to get on the platforms himself because then you can just drop down to the main stage and run away, and I guess up+B is just a crappy move (although it can hit you). Once again, this is revolving around my time-outy style, so it might not be "fun" (It's definitely fun for me :D ) but it gets the job done. The problem is getting the lead xD

I agree with theeeeeeeese.

fun fact if olimar is doing rising uair you can sdi down and nair/possibly uair if you're fast enough.

proceed to juggle **** him :3c ESPECIALLY IF YOU LIKE GET HIT BY THE 1ST UAIR ON PURPOSE TO BAIT THE EXTREMELY OBVIOUS AIRJUMP SECOND UAIR. olimar in the air without his jump loool <3

 

[Dark.Pch]

whaaaa? no way. falcon is so much more free than ganon. falcon is just fast....with no kill moves on peach, he can't chain any attacks vs peach and u can literally just not die, ganon on the other hand has actual priority, everything is a kill move and can punish mistakes HARD. bottom line, both are free, just don't **** up vs ganon.

This is False. You can run and camp Ganon and he can't do anything about it. Falcon aleast has speed so he can get close to you to stop you from camping. Thenhe just have to worrky about Peach up close game. Which he would get ***** for. But Ganon can't even get in. Only we he does is if you approach him.