Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[Villi]

I agree with 50/50 for now. I'm no expert on the matchup for sure, but I'm often the one approaching him. Don't become predictable and don't spam your Dair approach because he can bair you pretty easily if he predicts you correctly. He can also grab you out of the air if you're in the wrong place after your fourth kick or utilt you out of a shield drop. When he finally adjusts to this approach, have a plan B along with other approaches.

 

[DrakeRowan]

DDD is not that simple to just go in and combo. He can space hella well and even camp to keep distance. Also hr can snip you out the air easy with his waddledees. When you play good DDD' and high levels of play you will see.

And yes you can upsmash or uptilt DDD UpB coming down.

I sae this fight is even 50-50

I agree with most if not all of what you say. Don't get the wrong idea. If you think a Peach player can just rush in and throw combos and fairs everywhere you may as well be setting yourself up for failure. Many people get the misconception of since he's big, he's going to be slow and easy, WRONG. He'll punish you HARD if you mess up. Against a REALLY Careful Dedede it is VERY hard to approach one. This is where Peach needs to CALM IT DOWN and take it SLOW. Once he's in lag Do as much damage as you can through combos and fairs w/e and QUICKLY back off. I will hold my opinion about him being easier for Peach to chain some attacks together since he IS a BIG target. But again this is just from my personal experience though.

Im going to change my view to 50/50 as well since it's basically a game on who is more careful AND who can punish just as well.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

The waddle dee's aren't a big problem. Smash DI out of their electricity. You shouldn't be getting stuck in these things for very long. So many times I got "stuck" in it but I smashed DI'd before King Alfred could reach me.

However I wouldn't advise that, I'm just mentioning it for advice. I always kill them with Peach bomber.

Personally I find that going too slow and careful in this matchup isn't the greatest idea either. Niether is rushing crazy becuase his attack space well and have huge hitboxes. Personally I pressure him with spaced and QUICK movements. The penguin's biggest weakness, IMO, is that if he reacts improperly he has plenty of openings. I like to move around quickly and in many tricky manners, jump, landing, running back to a jump, to a float to running at him then shielding. I basically switch up my movements as much as possible WHILE maintaining good spacing and I find that D3 KEEPS leaving himself open because he's not good at reacting to all those as a character.

Tip: If you want to edgeguard him and you have lower percent, ALWAYS throw a turnip first. This will prevent him from suicide killing you, because he'll just suck up the turnip instead.

 

[rm88]

I second Dedede, and I must say a good Peach can be really difficult for my giant penguin. You can really screw her, but it's not that much of a problem for Peach.

 

[hova]

DDD is hella hard. if u camp... 55-45 in peach's favor. if u rush him... 20-80 in DDD's favor

waddle dee's can easily knock u out of ur float, if u dair against his shield you have to back up because he's quick enough to nair or utilt before u can do anything else

fair to slap doesn't work because he has enough range to shield grab even if u space perfectly

the only good part is that u can out camp him and peach is the second hardest character to chaingrab along with pit (marth being the hardest). if u play a bad DDD, you can just jab out of the chaingrab if he isn't perfect

never land with an aerial in front or behind him; shield drop to turn around grab is almost as quick as a regular shield grab

your CG works extremely well at low percents and will lead into tilt combos

don't challenge his aerials because they have crazy range and hitboxes. always go high to recover when knocked off

he has quick attacks which makes him hard to punish, but at the same time he has slow movement so it's hard for him to approach

i really hate to camp and play slow, but it's pretty much ur only option if a DDD is playing smart and gay

it may sound ******** but i actually stopped trying to actively kill DDD. i kind of just do my best to not get hit and let him die at his own pace. don't take this to mean that you shouldn't take a wide open shot when you see it (like him upBing onto the stage) but don't let yourself get bothered by the fact he lives forever. just keep yourself safe and keep hitting him until he dies, it will happen(eventually)

combos are good/easy against DDD, but the approach is the hard/tedious part

i'd have to say i agree with drk pch for the most part and no one else. i've played some bad DDDs and they are nothing but punching bags, but good ones can eat ur *** if you're not at the top or your game.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Ok, first off Let me correct Hova on the chain grabbing, Pit is the hardest character to chain-grab because you have to shield cancel grab, then its Marth, then Peach however it's not THAT hard to chain-grab Peach considering I can do it online consistently.

Peach Attacking Dedede:
It's full of spamming turnips and well played Dairs and Fairs. It's always dangerous for peach to approach from the air because if your around 80%, an Up-Tilt from Dedede will kill peach, So I would suggest never trying to approach Dedede from directly above his head; However staying in the air with peach is always a good thing, fairing at Dedede from a decent range stops him from shield grabbing Peach. Remember, if peach is grabbed shes taking about 20-30%plus a possible tech chase off-stage to dying.

Dedede Attacking Peach:
Dedede relies heavy on his grab game, this is true and everybody knows and understands this, however Dedede also has his Bair and Up-Tilt which will make the match up much harder then any Peach would want it to be. I believe Dedede's Bair beats everything peach has besides her fair, but Dedede's Bair is much quicker then Peach's fair. A well placed Up-Tilt can end a Peach at 80% which is pretty good considering this is brawl and everybody lives long.

Pretty much its a tough match for Peach but I would actually think of it as an even match up considering Dedede's grab game is important and Peach is one of the ( If not ) hardest characters to grab, not to mention her overall movement can be too much for Dedede. I really think the only way to fight Dedede with Peach is to use lag canceled fairs into slaps and spamming turnips.

 

[hova]

marth is hands down hardest to CG; ask M2K or Chillin. but it really doesn't matter if the DDD is flawless, you will be screwed regardless.

just remember that slaps are probably ur best bet to get out. u can also like roll/airdodge or some ****, but DDD recovers pretty fast from a missed grab and ur lag might be enough to get u grabbed again

 

[Vex Kasrani]

marth is hands down hardest to CG

I think I was wrong for saying I was correcting you because if you think about it, this is based on opinion, because Pit takes slightly more tech skill to chain-grab but it's still not hard .

just remember that slaps are probably ur best bet to get out. u can also like roll/airdodge or some ****, but DDD recovers pretty fast from a missed grab and ur lag might be enough to get u grabbed again

I agree, and remember, Dedede's spot dodge is 1 frame so be careful when trying to strike him.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Also, to correct one lil thing on hova's Post.

Yo can Fair to jab him. If you space it right, DDD cant shield grab you. I am the type of Peach that spaces like hell, and when I do it right, no matter what, DDD ca't grab me after I Fair, right vex?

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Also, to correct one lil thing on hova's Post.

Yo can Fair to jab him. If you space it right, DDD cant shield grab you. I am the type of Peach that spaces like hell, and when I do it right, no matter what, DDD ca't grab me after I Fair, right vex?

Unless Dedede perfect shields the fair, however if you jab after the fair like you said, then Dedede can't grab you anyway. So yes, if you lag cancel fair Dedede at a good range he can't shield grab.

 

[Niko_K]

Er... if ANYONE perfect shields ANYTHING, you can be grabbed from it. The PS has a 1 frame cancel lag (which is like...non existant) and the grab has fake SA. So good luck

 

[deepseadiva]

Thanks for posting in here Vex! It's always good to have a different angled view-point on these things, helps better develop the community's perspective.

Anyways:

Dedede Attacking Peach:I believe Dedede's Bair beats everything peach has besides her fair, but Dedede's Bair is much quicker then Peach's fair.

Yes. Believe this person. This is true. ;_;

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Urgh. DeDeDe is a pain but he's a very big target...I'd put it at 50-50

Dairing is all well and good but if he U tilts you then you're gonna possibly get killed. A quick DeDeDE will, as soon as he sees you pluck up a Turnip, throw something at you to prevent you from throwing it at him straight away

As for that Bair thing...Could you possibly Toad/Nair it when he's trying to continually hit you with it? I have't had much experience with DeDeDe and the ones I have fought haven't done that.
And as for that chain grab thing...I've never been properly chaingrabbed but if I see it coming after they've grabbed me once I use my Up + B to get DeDeDe away...Dunno if that helps at all

 

[~Peachy~]

Are you sure about this? What'd he throw? I've never heard of this...

You can look here:


http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=154840


I really thought it was old news. Btw, he threw two bumpers in one game. One of them killed me.

As someone said before, we should start talking about good stages for Peach's matchups. In my opinion, Stages with platforms such as Yoshi's Island( Brawl), Battlefield, and Lylat Cruise brins the matchup to Peach's favor. Peach can go through the platforms via floating and wreck DDD from there.

@ DraikRoan I'm not the one who said that, that is a quote's from the DDD matchup thread which you can see here:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=182310

I'm really not sure about Peach's Ko percent's on DDD. He's way heavier than most of Peach's other match ups so its obvious that it will be harder to kill him. Maybe someone should do damage KO calculations to find out at what percent's DDD is KOed by each of Peach's Kill moves.

Also, I'm pretty sure DDD lags when he uses his Waddle Dee Throw. ( after lag?) So if he's camping, it is pretty simple as to just float up to him an dair + combo.( Just watch out for up tilt and bair at high percentages). They come out very quick for a big penguin.

My info may be wrong cause I need to fight better DDD's.I think I'll go look for some good DDD players later on their forums....

At this point, the matchup is AT LEAST 50-50 but it seems easier than that. =P

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Also, to correct one lil thing on hova's Post.

Yo can Fair to jab him. If you space it right, DDD cant shield grab you. I am the type of Peach that spaces like hell, and when I do it right, no matter what, DDD ca't grab me after I Fair, right vex?

Personally I like to space my forward air's into forward smashes. If he tries to grab you and you are spaced out of reach and forward smash, he'll eat the hit up.

 

[Peachkid]

my best way of combating a d3 is to float at a height where he thinks he can grab me but cant so i eat him up with dairs and nairs, i also think that turnips can help get the waddle dees away cause when he tosses them the turnip stops them and then u can possobly fair the d3 and the waddledee

but dark pch and others told me that its crucial to get rid of the WDs as quickly as possible because if one of them happens to be a waddle doo and it shocks u ur open for a free fsmash from d3.

ill post some more up later

 

[hova]

i don't wanna rush the topic, i would just like to request that we possibly talk about Marth next. this one marth in my area is currently just wrecking my **** and would love to read others input

but please continue with DDD

Thanks

 

[Niko_K]

Toad works amazingly well against Marth. Just mix it up. Since Marth has such long range the Toad stops him in his tracks. Space yourself with turnips and fair and Juggle with Uair.

 

[hova]

no dude, stay on DDD

i didn't want to get things sidetracked

 

[Dark.Pch]

Personally I like to space my forward air's into forward smashes. If he tries to grab you and you are spaced out of reach and forward smash, he'll eat the hit up.

Thats good but I dont risk that. The DDD heres are clever. And they will roll behind you. So if I Fsmash after, they will roll behind me and grab.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Thats good but I dont risk that. The DDD heres are clever. And they will roll behind you. So if I Fsmash after, they will roll behind me and grab.

This is Dedede making the adjustment to you. If he rolls behind you he's in a state of lag. You are not so you have the upper hand, and if you know he'll roll behind you you can hit him after his roll. If you re spaced where he can't grab you if you forward smash backwards instead it will hit him. I'm not saying this is an "always works trick" I'm saying I like to mix it in occasionally.

 

[hova]

DDD's roll has no lag

haha... i mean it does, but not really. ***** DDD

 

[EdreesesPieces]

The lag is the time while he is rolling he can't do an action so you can punish it. It's invincibility frames don't last the entire roll, just in a portion of it. Yeah it's hard to punish but if he KNOWS they will roll it's easy to punish.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I think Peach's downsmash will do the trick if Dedede decides to roll behind you. Not sure but I'm pretty sure

 

[Morrigan]

. Not sure but I'm pretty sure

That's ironic

 

[Vex Kasrani]

That's ironic

I lol'd

 

[BurtonEarny]

I dont have really any experiance playing a good dedede, because out of my group Im the only one who plays him. Anyway, couldnt you just float to avoid most of his quickest attacks. And if he bairs you cant you float away or toad it easily enough? d3's utilt is about the only move besides short hopped waddle tosses I can see being a problem, because you would have him juggled by the time he tries to shorthop any air. I really cant think of an excuse to lose to a d3, but like I said I dont really play them.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I agree with those that are saying 50-50 and it seems to be a general feeling among Peach players, it'd be nice to have a Dedede's input on that though. I'll check out their forums.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Bump. It's marth time

 

[deepseadiva]

I think we can all agree the thing about Marth is turnips, turnips, turnips! *throws turnip at dead Marth*

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

*Remembers the last time Marth was discussed in a Peach match up thread and starts to worry*

A clear advantage Peach has is that she has projectiles and Marth doesn't. On the other hand, Marth is quick and whilst some of his attacks lack power (untipped of course) he is good a juggling. He's also got his broken very good Up Smash which has crazy deceptive hitboxes.

The Marths I've fought seem to enjoy their new Side B combos (I don't blame them it's pretty nice now) If you see one coming, Toad it. Toad is very useful here because Marth doesn't have a very big grab range so he doesn't normally rely on grabs. Be wary of them none the less. And also be wary of the fact that he has a counter and it is good. If Marth keeps trying to counter you, grab him and punish him

Recovery wise, Marth's recovery has got better from his new Neutral B that sends him whizzing across the air when charged up. His Up + B will knock you off the ledge and make him cling onto it if your ledge grab invinciblity frames have run out. However, his recovery still isn't that good. Gimp him with Turnips. Perhaps even get the odd Foot Stool in to take him by surprise

I'd like to put this match up as 50-50 but I'm still unsure about that. I'd probably have to fight some more Marth players

 

[Morrigan]

I like to fool Marths and make them counter and then punish. I float to them as if I were gonna Fair them but instead of landing the hit I float backwards (while Fairing), they counter, then I punish. It only works a few times though, so don't overuse it.

 

[Morrigan]

What I took from the Marth forums (may be outdated)

Peach - Peach doesn't really have anything over Marth. All she has that's better is recovery and MAYBE edgeguarding. Turnips are nothing. Swat them with fairs. Half the time you will knock them away the other half you will just catch them. If you block her turnips they dissappear. When you get close zone her as usual. Her kill power sucks so just watch out for her fair and F-smash as kill moves. Her U-smash is a good one too, but she has to be right on top of her opponent to get the full power out of it, and Marth should NEVER be that close. She is hard to edgeguard thanks to her floating so don't worry about that too much. If she edgeguards with turnips you should just fair them or airdodge. If she goes out to hit you just fair her. She can combo with dair to w/e. If you get caught with the dair, DI each hit and then try to jump away or airdodge. She is light so all your kill moves work well. She has good range on the ground BTW so be aware of that. Her f-tilt has very good range. Still she can't do much about Marth's zoning. Also if she uses Peach Bomber just counter it.

Peach - 65:35 Marth

And here's a bit of information from the old thread:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=160100&highlight=marth
(pages 1 to 3 more or less)

 

[Dark.Pch]

Ok thats from a Marths point of biew. Now you gotta get some from a Peach point of view. This fight is 40-60 Marth?

Why? Oh boy do I have a book to right about this one. I have to go to a tourny now, when I get back I'll explain. I know this fight oh too well.

 

[BurtonEarny]

I like to fool Marths and make them counter and then punish. I float to them as if I were gonna Fair them but instead of landing the hit I float backwards (while Fairing), they counter, then I punish. It only works a few times though, so don't overuse it.

The turnips help in that respect as well so you can get in a grab and begin to juggle. Doesn't ftilt outreach most of his moves... jabs and toad ftilt and turnips. dair is always good, but watch out they dont try to counter it. the floating in then out and then in helps here some.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Yeah, that AiB discussion about Marth and Peach was pretty nuts. I'm going to say it's 50-50 now. I have a lot of reasons to this. Marth takes a certain playstyle for Peach. If you don't use this playstyle you are going to get "stuck" inside of Marth and his aerials. Here's how I treat the matchup:

-If he's not close, I always pull out a turnip

-If I notice that he likes to rush me when I crouch to pull out a turnip, I use this to mess with his head. I'll crouch to pretend to use a turnip, then forward smash him instead. It works and is a great mind game. Try it.

-I like to see what was stated earlier : jump, float in the air, float slightly backwards to evade his swipes, then punish. Yeah this quote:

I like to fool Marths and make them counter and then punish. I float to them as if I were gonna Fair them but instead of landing the hit I float backwards (while Fairing), they counter, then I punish. It only works a few times though, so don't overuse it.

-Love to back air against Marth. Short hopping them. If he's not used to the spacing it will mess up his usual spacing habits.

-If you want to avoid the UP B, after you down air, if he shields it, float forward slightly. You will evade his UP b and get a free hit.

-Also, when you land after he shields one of your aerials, roll immediately. this will also get you to evade his up b, and give you a free hit. Then he will grow much more weary of using it and you can instead follow up your aerials with a bit of pressure.

-Do not use airdodge against marth very much. He can punish it real easily, even if he didn't predict your airdodge, because his swipes come out fast, he can bust out another one pretty fast after your airdodge.

-Pupnish forward smash if you shield it by floating out of shield to forward air. If you master the timing, you are, I'm pretty sure, gauranteed to punish any shielded forward smashes.

-Bait marth into forward smashing by appearing to be in tipper range but being ready to evade it or shield it.

Absolutely critical technique to making this matchup one you beat:
-Edgeguard his recovery by floating next to the ledge. When you hear the sound of his UP b come out, let go of your float, you're invincibility frames you gain from grabbing the ledge will protect you from the UP B and he will be edgehogged

Those are some of the strategies I use. I just don't fear this matchup at all, perhaps its my playstyle, but I love to fight Marth.

 

[Praxis]

Edrees is right. I'm placing it 50-50 now that I know the matchup slightly better.

Glide tossing turnips into Marth's face gives you free slaps or grabs depending on spacing, and Dair combos well but don't try hard to land it. Bair outprioritizes his fairs and if you see them coming Fair outreaches it too. You have to play differently- RAR and Bair a lot for example- but it's a very even matchup IMHO.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Nope, i disagree about it being 50/50. Its in Marth favor. Its late so I'll give my input in this laters. But its not an even fight.

 

[Gea]

I don't fear the matchup either but... simply he has so many options to kill you and so many safety nets with certain moves. Certainly not a terrible matchup... but I wouldn't want to do it on FD against a really good one.

45-55 Marth's favor.

 

[hova]

i have honestly wrecked every Marth i've played except for two. I'm not going to base my judgement off of the ones I beat, but rather the ones that give me trouble because I do believe one is at and the other is near the top of the current Marth metagame

i really think this match up is 85-15... guess whose favor?

most of the things that made this match easy for Marth in melee are still there, but the things that made it bearable for Peach are gone

the only two Marths that beat me are Neo and Meep... 4th and 9th out of 110 respectively at Critical Hit3, the most competitive EC tourney to date

it's just so easy for Marth to pin you down if you go on defense and so easy to punish offensive attempts