Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[Niko_K]

Um, U-smashing out of running is by canceling your dash animation. Not jump canceling.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I dont agree with Peach having the advantage over MK at all.

If MK does his tornado up close while you toad, your still gonna get hit. And Meta's that spam tornado are annoying and will test peoples nerves. I played a spamming one yesterday in a rank match online. I was amazed at what this game comes down to win.First Match I beat him by a stock, then picked Luigi's mansion and spammed happy there. Took him to BF and stocked me again.

This guy did not really have any mindgames. But he just spammed happy. I clapped him out of the tornado with a Few Fsmashes but it was not that simple. As in he would attack then follow up with the move.

Aside from the tornado, The match is NOT in Peaches favor. You explain all the stuff Peach can do to him. But you also gotta look at what smart metas can do as well. and all the possibilities. I suggest you think this through dude. I beat metas But im not gonna go saying Peach has the advantage cause of that.

 

[Niko_K]

Completely agreed.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

The problem with the tornado is that there is very little you can do about it. Compared to Peach, it's super fast and unless Meta is stupid and standing in one place using the tornado (which they never do) Toad is pretty much useless because the spores miss, Toad ends and you get caught up in the tornado. I haven't yet found a good way to escape the tornado. Toad is only useful when you see the tornado coming from far away and even then it's difficult for the spores to connect

I'm no expert but the only advice I could offer is that you try and trick him every so often with a reversed Toad (B reversal). I imagine it'd get predictable though. I've never had any real experience vs a really good Meta...so yea

 

[Morrigan]

Also, I heard lots of Metaknights try to avoid Jungle Japes/Halberd/Lylat Cruise.

 

[Gea]

Wait what? Are you saying the ONLY way to Usmash out of a run is by cancelling a jump? Because that's not true.

Then they changed it. In melee the only way to *really* do an immediate usmash out of a run was to jump cancel it. The whole "hitting up" with the joystick is what initiates the jump... but before you leave the ground you upsmash.

That's why usmashing out of a run is faster than cancelling the dash animation otherwise and doing a dsmash/fsmash.

 

[Morrigan]

Oh yeah, now you can just Upsmash out of the run without jumping

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I dont agree with Peach having the advantage over MK at all.

If MK does his tornado up close while you toad, your still gonna get hit. And Meta's that spam tornado are annoying and will test peoples nerves. I played a spamming one yesterday in a rank match online. I was amazed at what this game comes down to win.First Match I beat him by a stock, then picked Luigi's mansion and spammed happy there. Took him to BF and stocked me again.

This guy did not really have any mindgames. But he just spammed happy. I clapped him out of the tornado with a Few Fsmashes but it was not that simple. As in he would attack then follow up with the move.

Aside from the tornado, The match is NOT in Peaches favor. You explain all the stuff Peach can do to him. But you also gotta look at what smart metas can do as well. and all the possibilities. I suggest you think this through dude. I beat metas But im not gonna go saying Peach has the advantage cause of that.

Yeah I thought through that actually and mended it to even matchup. I really feel this way now even taking into the account what he can do. How would you rate the matchup then? I'd like to know because it's getting time to move on to a different character. Seems like the trend is enough for me to put it at 40-60 Meta.

Oh yeah, now you can just Upsmash out of the run without jumping

Yeah and the tradeoff is that now you don't get extra momentum for jumping out of a dash. Not worth it.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I would say Its 40-60 meta

For one thing, His air air beats Peach. And its faster. Its hard to touch the floor against a good meta. And when Meta's follow up with the tornado after tier spaced attack, it can become hard to deal with. And edguarding him is not all that simple nether. They can sometimes glides to the stage then glide attack.

 

[PRINCESS PEACH777]

I would say Its 40-60 meta

For one thing, His air air beats Peach. And its faster. Its hard to touch the floor against a good meta. And when Meta's follow up with the tornado after tier spaced attack, it can become hard to deal with. And edguarding him is not all that simple nether. They can sometimes glides to the stage then glide attack.

So Metaknight is better?

 

[Morrigan]

Indeed he is

 

[PRINCESS PEACH777]

That little thing beats Peach oh no....
what happened to the world.

 

[Dark.Pch]

So Metaknight is better?

Yes Mother, he is.

 

[PRINCESS PEACH777]

How shocking....well fine us Peach players have our way.....

 

[Excel_Zero]

Metaknight... ugh. I'd say 30-70, in MK's favor.

I'll share what I know.

-Uptilt beats tornado when MK is above Peach, but a good MK player probably won't do that from above. =\
-MK's aerials beats Peach's aerials in speed and priority (disjointed), which is the most annoying thing about this matchup.
-Tornado can be shielded and punished, but if you don't have much shield left, Peach will get shield-stabbed.
-Using Up B above the stage means an easy Up B for MK. Avoid that. Always go for the ledge when recovering.
-Pluck turnips with a safe distance from MK, because if you are close enough, he will punish you since he is fast.
-Fsmash breaks tornado, but it's hard to do so because of the fsmash's startup lag. With some good predictions this can be useful.

Metaknight is a nightmare for me. Specially the ones that space themselves with aerials so I can't hit them. If Metaknight is above a platform though, he can't really do anything, so trying to keep him there with uptilts is a good way to rack up damage.

To edgeguard Meta... ugh... I usually don't. Most of the times I just throw some turnips and try to avoid following him outside the stage, since he can easily stagespike Peach, or even turn the tides and edgeguard her. I should try using Toad more in this situation...

To KO, usually a ftilt can do the job when he is high at damage. Since MK can't really be gimped, you need to go for straight kills most of the time, which Peach is not really that good at. Just the same old stuff... upsmash if the opportunity arises, a Fair near the edge, etc.

Metaknight counters Peach. Sad but true. I'd say it's Peach worst matchup overall.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Okay, I think i'm gonna set it at 40-60 through overall consensus and discussion here. Who to next? Hmm..I'll do Game and Watch cuz everyone thinks he's hard =/

 

[TechnoMonster]

I'd say its more like 30-70, Metabutt is mindgamable at a low level, but at a high level he outranges, outprioritizes and outpowers peach with all of his moves, and Toad is your only answer to tornado.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I"ll be more detailed later, but this matchup is hard..and annoying. You think you can punish his lag, then either his move wasn't actually done or he can pull out another one instantly. He can kill Peach so easily, that's my biggest problem. I don't have truoble racking up damage but I die at like 95% heh.

 

[hova]

i say 35-65 for MK. just crazy range and speed. you seriously have no options while he's in the air besides turnip. his air game destroys ur air and ground game. you have to wait for an opening and it's hard to create one urself

the only plus is that u can camp and destroy his ground game with a mix of aerial and ground attacks. he can edgeguard u, but u can't edgeguard him. both characters can kill at reasonable percents if they know what to go for.

it's an all around hard match up that requires a ton of patience and percision. my favorite part about this match up is that peach's dsmash is infinitely more useful than MK's dsmash. most MK will sidestep>dsmash or dropsheild>dsmash, but you can just float over this and punish with dair or fair. peach's dair to dsmash will eat thru MK's sheild unless it's near full strength and will set up for an easy attack


edit: G&W... grrrr

mad patience. you have to apply like campy pressure if that makes sense. *** his turtle, you can double jump back and come forward with a fair. you'll be above his hitbox and smack the crap out of him.

also a lot of dash>shield>grab. float over dtilt or dsmash. don't ever challenge a usmash, just throw a turnip to be safe. he's quick(little lag) and good range, which can make him hard to hit; but you can beat all his moves with one of ur own except for this fair, fsmash, and usmash

i'd say even until i learn more about the match up, but i've played a few different GW's

50-50

 

[deepseadiva]

Game & Watch? Who complains about Mr. Game & Watch? He's a push-over.

 

[hova]

i have trouble trusting the views of those that smash in Colorado

 

[Excel_Zero]

Peach vs G&W

I really don't know who has the advantage in this matchup since I haven't played a lot of good Game and Watch players. Until now I haven't had any trouble with them. But I can't say for sure.

Well here's my two cents about Peach vs G&W:

-G&W's dair can be stopped with Peach's uptilt, making it impossible for him to penetrate from above.
-If G&W is trying to approach using the bair, just use Toad. Once he hits Toad he can't evade the spores.

really don't know what else to say lol... ummm... turnips ftw?

 

[hova]

what is up with people and their spamming of toads?? the **** has slow start up so you have to know what ur opponent is going to do in order for it to be effective

it's good to pull out once in awhile when you have ur opponent pegged, but it's not something that should be a part of ur general strategy

fighting strategies should be formed assuming we'll be playing top level smashers. this isn't beat down scrubs 101...

disclaimer: yes i have killed skilled players with Toad during tourney, but it really shouldn't be a common tactic

 

[Niko_K]

I'm not really the greatest at writing character matchup reviews, though I can give you a few tips.

He has a very fast ground game, though you can pick it apart if you are quick enough. Spacing yourself well with turnips and floating is key in this matchup.

For your offensive game, of course D-Air combo's are great, though he can easily SDI out of them, leaving you punishable. Glide tossing turnips towards him is a terrible idea since he can Perfect Shield and Fsmash you before you can do anything else. You're tilts work wonders in this matchup, since they all have ridiculously long range and priority, you are pretty much guarenteed to hit with all three of them. And they all connect into eachother nicely (except utilt, usually finish with that)

After U-Tilts, I like to glide toss turnips upwards towards them or z drop them to where they are landing.

I'm obviously missing tons about the matchup, but I play more instinctively so it's hard to describe exactly what I would do.

I'm not going to cover all the moves but more or less the ones that GaW players depend on most.

Bair:

You have TONS of options here, though toad should not be one of them due to its slow start up lag. First of all if you do end up getting hit you can SDI up after each hit and escape before the attack ends, allowing a free bair or leaving him punishable. If you see it coming you can retreat double jump into fair, it will hit him right out of the bair allowing you to follow up. Sometimes GaW players like to fall in with bair, if this happens just Utilt and they will get knocked out of it. Shielding it all is a GREAT move, what I like to is once the last hit touches my shield I footstool OoS float into dair combo's.

F-Smash: It's quick, has barely any startup lag, and does killer knockback if you are close enough. Floating fair isn't a great option considering the matchstick is aimed diagonally. Though your dash attack outranges it and will hit him out of it if you space it properly, though it is risky because if you get to close...well yknow

Uair: This leaves you in a WTF frenzy, since you fall so slow you are very vulnerable while falling back. You pretty much have to air dodge safely back to the stage or if he tries to follow up with an attack, toad it. Though your safest option is to time a dair to eat away at his counter attack, maybe giving you time to nair. Get back to the stage and retreat.


I can expand more as more people post.

 

[Villi]

I haven't played a good G&W in a while. I would suggest going into the practice room and perfecting the timing of tech rolling his Dthrow -- it's practically a free kill on Peach if he manages to grab her at around 100%. Your best bet is to play very defensively and attack him out of his laggy moves when he approaches you and during turnip hitstun.

 

[Praxis]

I've been dealing with G&W a lot lately. My G&W opponent realized how good his Bair is on Peach.

If it lands squarely, Bair pierces the turtle. The early hitboxes block the spores and the last hitboxes hit Peach. It also eats shields, and his Dsmash makes it frustratingly hard to punish him.

 

[Peachkid]

man i wish i could contribute to this XD i dont know much about matchups nor am i good at writing up reviews but imo i can see alot of gaws moves comin so i can shield/toad most of his attacks and with the bair, i roll behind him and then eather fsmash grab or usmash (if i dont get hit by the landing attack)

 

[Praxis]

Also, I find Dair combos fairly ineffective against G&W. I try to use Dair as a punishment for the turtle by predicting when he's shorthopping into it and jumping higher while dairing as he passes under me, but he's too light to be held into combos and he'll punish you afterwards so it's best to use nair to get him away from you after a dair and just get out of the way.

First of all if you do end up getting hit you can SDI up after each hit and escape before the attack ends, allowing a free bair or leaving him punishable.

GENIUS I MUST TRY IT.

 

[Villi]

I would take hova's advice about double jumping backward and then coming down with a fair while he's still in his bair animation.

 

[deepseadiva]

i have trouble trusting the views of those that smash in Colorado

Por WHY? We love you long time.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I dont play to many of them. But I gonna base this due to how I think and the average game and watch Metagame I have seen.

If you think carefully, toad is a good move. Some Game and watches Space thier back airs and done right, toad can save you. I have done this before. Its not about being predictable. Its about saving your azz. And if you clap them with Toad, they will reduce the usage of the back airs. And thats about a good % of your game and watch problem gone. If your pin to a corner and you see him going for a Baick air, dont roll. Just toad him. People also forget that when en enemy hits toad, thier momentom slows down. And the spores have range. You gotta think of it this way. The most risky moves are the ones that can save you. They are risky for a reason. Lets see if you guys can get the meaning of that.

When you shield his back air, run out your shield to him to get close. Now if you expect another back air (which most G&W's do) Shield again. The back air would be inside your shield at this point since your closer to him than before. Now after the attack is done you can Ftilt out of your shield. Or Run out of your shield for a grab or Dash attack.

Now with all this in mind, you have cut down the Back air usage. Now as for Him in general, He can kill you quick with his smash attacks. So It be best to be on point when your at mid % and he goes for smash attacks. His moves comes out fast dude to his wierd 2D. He also Has Range with his Fair and Dtilt animation And its hard to hit him He has good range and spacing so I advice not to rush him. And his N-B can be a pain to get in or get a good hit off him. The up air can make it a pain to land since Peach is so light. And falls slow. (floaty for the lost).

Space your attacks like hell and bring your defensive game. Also make sure your ground game is on point. G&W can take you down easy with his Back air or N-B. Hell even his Fair. Use turnips to slow him down and screw up his spacing. And Limit the usage of your Glide tossing. Only Glide toss when he is in The middle of an attack. Once the turnip lands Jab or grab him. Try grabbing since the will be shielding the turnip upon landing. So an easy grab for you.

When G&W gets you in the up-air lock, DONT try to attack him while landing. Its very difficult and can result in you being open for a free hit or a finisher. Just work on landing safe and away from him. Worry about hitting him once you touch the floor. I think his Uair boost get s weaker after each use. So remember around 2 or 3 times of it being used G&W will come in to attack you. GET AWAY FROM HIM AND DON'T BOTHER ATTACKING.

If your under a platform and he is over it, crouch. Cause he may Dair you and it goes throw it. Thet from your crouch, Uptilt him or do a Nair/Uair. Gotta Be quick though. Se may also go for another Dair as a bluff to lure you and hit you with it.

When he Jabs you, DI up and away. Smash DI them if you can. It can avoid a grab to his lil chain grab of throw tatics.

Your gonna need a good mix of both air and ground game.If one is weak or you don't have nether, your in trouble. Your gonna have to rotate both of them. And also have your defense game up. He can But up your defense quick.

This is all I have. until I olay them more. Then look at more of thier strats. this is all based on what I see them do. And how I would deal with it.

 

[hova]

drk pch- that first bair strat is going to get ur shield destroyed. it's impossible to block two full turtles back to back. also if they retreat while bairing you won't be able to reach them for a grab because they'll have enough time to whip out a smash or tilt

also y toad when you can just punish with fair. it's much less risky

am i the only one who spams fair til no end. i really think that's her most useful move and just go to town on people with fair

 

[Dark.Pch]

spamming moves wont get you anywhere, and its gonna make it hard for you to K.O

Also its hard to get through his back air with your Fair. I done all this shizz before. Toad works against his Back air. If spaced your not beating his back air with your Fair. Since it comes out faster than your attack.

Now Im out of here, I have to head down to Mass for a tournament 2morrow. If anything I'll add more about this on sunday. And Im so ready for you to counter this with something Hova. Cause I have an Idea of what your gonna say next. Anyway I'll deal with it on sunday.

 

[Villi]

I know that using Toad has worked for me, but it's also failed when I've tried it at too close range. Double jumping backward to dodge the bulk of his bair and then fast falling a fair from above him has also worked in my experience.

Risk is offset by smart, careful spacing and safe movements as well as being unpredictable. I think that there's more exposure to error with Toad just because of the cooldown time and the prediction involved with using it. While the fair maneuver also requires prediction/committing, it's auto-cancelled so it's harder to punish.

You can tech roll G&W's dthrow visually -- the bottom of Peach's dress will be parallel with G&W's hand. Hold away from him and press L/R right at that moment and you should roll away as soon as you hit the ground. If he tries to tech chase you, you can most likely just shield grab him.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

That toad idea sounds great because usually when he back air's, he spaces himself so far away that if he misses he's not going to be able to punish your toad. I can see that this will be useful when you really get the spacing down.

I agree with Dark Peach that you should NOT try to attack him too much while in his up air floatsies. Just get back without falling for one of his setups on that move.

Hova - Yes, you have to predict your opponent to use toad, but that's where the benefits come in. If you can predict their strategy they are probably doing it a lot. Say, a bunch of back airs. If you toad his back air just once he's always gonna be slightly reserved with the back air to watch out if you use toad again (any smart player who can even slightly adjust) This is a little victory in itself IMO because now he's a little scared to use back air. That really is a huge benefactor of the move I personally feel, because suddenly you can be a little more aggressive again, and if they start being too aggressive you can bust out another toad. I Just think it stops people from playing over aggressive on Peach, and that includes G+W. And once you stop your opponent from being overly aggressive, you can get that speed and spacing Peach needs to operate at her best.

 

[Gea]

Yeah, and this is a match where getting rid of the frying pan and hoping for a golf club is a GOOD thing. I'm always cycling through the bad ones or resetting after getting a golf club in this match because the range is SO useful and it kills him so fast.

Here's the thing: Assuming you space really well, the ONLY move he has that can give you consistent trouble is bair. That's it. Everything else you shouldn't fear. Fair should NEVER get you with the strong part because you can just float back and airdodge and it nicks you at worst, uair is just mindgames really and you can get by it easy, dair gets eaten by your utilt and even if he spaces it to the side (or just up + Bs afterwards) it leaves ALOT of holes in his game. If he dairs its your chance for a grab/fair/utilt. Nair shouldn't mess with you because he should NEVER be allowed that close to you.

Dtilt? floats. ftilt can be annoying but most GWs underuse it, and utilt should never give you issues either. Jabs can mess with you so DI out and up and try to start floating. Most will either try to grab or fsmash out of jabs.

Take him to Lylat or Kanto 1. On lyat his bair is VERY effective but its a free usmash if he lands on one of the platforms whereas he can't use a killmove the same way. Kanto is the same thing.

Its a 60/40 match... But pretty much the smarter player wins. If you can predict the GW you should have 0 problems because toad > him so much. If he mixes it up well and can manage to bait you into an fsmash its over.

Getting grabbed... after one grab you should get used to what he tries to do. Immediately tech and if he follows it up immediately, start teching in place or getting up slow. MOST GWs either always expect you to tech away from him or expect you never to tech (and they dsmash).

Oh, and recover high, float above the stage, and get down how you can.

 

[hova]

spamming moves wont get you anywhere, and its gonna make it hard for you to K.O

Also its hard to get through his back air with your Fair. I done all this shizz before. Toad works against his Back air. If spaced your not beating his back air with your Fair. Since it comes out faster than your attack.

Now Im out of here, I have to head down to Mass for a tournament 2morrow. If anything I'll add more about this on sunday. And Im so ready for you to counter this with something Hova. Cause I have an Idea of what your gonna say next. Anyway I'll deal with it on sunday.

what am i supposed to be countering? you just said something that i know works

doesn't work...

u don't directly challenge his bair with ur fair. you let his bair come out, double jump back and then come back in with a fair. ur going over his hitbox, his move being faster has nothing to do with it

like i said before we shouldn't be basing this advice on beating randoms or ok players. we should worry about top level players and what they will do

Toad is a predicting game since u have to start it before the attack comes out if the GW spaces and times right and all that jazz. if you predict his bair you get free damage, make him look stupid, and possibly kill at high percents.

if he predicts ur toad... he's going to kill you with an usmash at 90%

toad is good and should be used, but it shouldn't be a main weapon that's used repeatedly during a match

y do something riskier if it doesn't yield a greater reward? anything u do to beat his bair will make him stop bairing. i'd rather react and punish than try to predict

 

[Gea]

If the GW is close you're forced to toad or get into your shield though. Double jump fairing only works if the GW turtledances from any sort of distance. Both have their uses.

 

[hova]

i can respect that, but I wanna learn how to shield grab him outta his bair if he's too close

i've done it before, but i haven't gotten the exact timing down. not sure if the grab armor frames come into play. definitely something i need to work on

anyone else have different strats for his bair? i guess we all pretty much agree how to handle the rest of his moveset

how does everyone edgeguard? i just try to get some free damage with turnips, but it seems like i can't really go after him because he can use his ranged aerials and pretty much live no problem

 

[EdreesesPieces]

We need a sticky for this thread Lots of strategies/discussion on G+W but I don't see much comment on the matchup faring. 60-40 GW? 55-45 GW?

BTW His air lock thing helps negate his other stale moves, so don't let him just juggle you with it thinking it's okay since you're not taking damage. I'd air dodge it when possible.