Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[Gea]

**** I did not know that.

In terms of edgeguarding, I just make him nervous and hope for the best. Most seem to either like to recover high and try to beat you back to the stage or get under you so their up + B hits you. Pretty much all I do is float out and try to trick him into using his up B asap, because the sooner he uses it the sooner you can punish him. The further out he does it, the better.

Also trying to let him fair you (and toading) can work pretty well.

Don't forget though that he's light. Really light. Ftilt should kill him ala Metaknight, correct?

I'd say 60-40 his favor. Kills Peach well and can wall *fairly* well with turtle. Peach has a harder time killing him and has to play careful with her aerials.

 

[hova]

i still say 50-50

he's like a lesser Metaknight in that you have to play a wait and react game since he can just constantly attack with almost no delay

playing patient and avoiding his smashes (which shouldn't be too hard) makes it hard for him to kill you

 

[Dark.Pch]

what am i supposed to be countering? you just said something that i know works

doesn't work...

What?

u don't directly challenge his bair with ur fair. you let his bair come out, double jump back and then come back in with a fair. ur going over his hitbox, his move being faster has nothing to do with it

That move has more range that your Fair. Ans spaced right, your Fair is not beating it. If you double jump back then go in, your actually helping his spaceing of his Bair and it comes out faster than your Fair. So yea, him having the faster move has plenty to do with it.

like i said before we shouldn't be basing this advice on beating randoms or ok players. we should worry about top level players and what they will do

Until someone plays a G&W at high level of skill. This is all we have to base it on. And as for me, I'm going by how I think and use my Peach and comparing it to the average G7W metagame.

Toad is a predicting game since u have to start it before the attack comes out if the GW spaces and times right and all that jazz. if you predict his bair you get free damage, make him look stupid, and possibly kill at high percents.


if he predicts ur toad... he's going to kill you with an usmash at 90%

toad is good and should be used, but it shouldn't be a main weapon that's used repeatedly during a match

y do something riskier if it doesn't yield a greater reward? anything u do to beat his bair will make him stop bairing. i'd rather react and punish than try to predict

I never said it had to be used as your main weapon. But it will reduce the risk of him using his Bair. since he may fear the toad. And this all depends on how fast you can react. Its not that hard To see a bair set up. You reduce the usage of his bair cause he is afraid of toad, then the fight is less stressful.

10 Peaches

 

[hova]

"Until someone plays a G&W at high level of skill" - Dark Pch

So you're basing your stuff off of theory? i will now completely disregard all of ur G&W posts.

i've played a ton of G&W's; good and bad. Velocity being the best one so far (according to my partner omegablackmage is a little better) and i'm letting you know that ur theories are not that easy to apply in practice.

i actually tried to toad it up against G-reg last night and it definitely is not worth the risk. it's a free grab or smash anytime you guess wrong and those are two very strong points for G&W

and yes the fair has worked against every G&W i have played

until you actually play some G&Ws, which i would like to reiterate that i have played several, please do not try to correct me with theories

the bair is easy to not get hit by, Toad is probably one of ur riskiest option with almost no reward

Theory is bullnoogies!!

 

[Dark.Pch]

So let me get this straight.......

My logic is BS cause I dont play him alot...........but you give situations and I think of ways out of them by using my head and how I would handle the problem?

I think Im done here then. Your the G&W expert then. I would give advice on this match up anymore. See you next week in here.

 

[hova]

when you say something doesn't work when I know that it does work; and then you base this on theory against my in game application

yes, at that point ur theory is bullnoogies

i'm all for thinking things thru and coming up with solid strategies, but i'm also for reworking the plan when said strategy has proven to be less effective than anticipated

u don't have to throw a hissy fit

 

[DrakeRowan]

Against GaWs bair I usually just run away and throw turnips. In my experience it's best to just avoid it period and just observe the GaW from the far end while chucking turnips. Most GaW I've played used it as an approach so I just run away and turnip.

 

[Villi]

I would make this matchup 55-45 in favor of G&W. They are both light characters, both hard to edge guard, both have good aerials that auto-cancel.

Peach can cause a lot of damage quickly with turnips and combos when she can get them in; and has good maneuverability and mind games with her float. Toad works well if you can anticipate G&W's bairs, but also works against poorly spaced Fsmashes since the matchstick stays out so long. Peach can space and sometimes kill with the ftilt, and utilt outprioritizes dair approaches. Fair, her safest kill move, will probably stay outside of full power for the majority of the match however.

G&W has much more numerous and reliable kill moves and a mean disjointed hitbox with his dtilt. For the most part, G&W will probably be doing most of the approaching partly because he can and partly because he can't outcamp her.

Peach can defend herself just fine and poke in some combo damage once in a while, but Peach overall has less priority and less opportunities for making mistakes before taking a critical hit.

 

[deepseadiva]

utilt outprioritizes dair approaches.

I'm not sure about this. I've tried this a number of times against the stupid key and it usually always goes though. Maybe I'm just timing it wrong - but might the key be one of the FEW dairs that can get past the heart zap?

 

[hova]

utilt beats key

it's more so range than priority, just have to whip it out early

 

[Gea]

I can settle for 55-45 GW, if only because of killing. Sure, its easy to avoid the smashes the majority of the time, but that just means they are fresh when you finally accidentally get hit by fsmash.

 

[Niko_K]

This REALLLY needs a sticky.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

i still say 50-50

he's like a lesser Metaknight in that you have to play a wait and react game since he can just constantly attack with almost no delay

playing patient and avoiding his smashes (which shouldn't be too hard) makes it hard for him to kill you

What if there's a smarter Game and Watch that doesn't just throw out attacks and spaces himself and tricks you instead? Honestly, I don't think "waiting for mistakes" is a good strategy against really good players - they will be going the same to you.

 

[deepseadiva]

It's not exactly waiting for the opponent to slip up, it's more like waiting for something you can respond to with a likely chance of scoring a hit.

 

[hova]

i never said wait for a mistake, just react well to what they are doing whether it's spamming attacks or standing still.

some characters you can pressure and force them into positions where you have the advantage. it's very difficult to do against MK and G&W

that's why I love peach so much, it's so easy to turtle and at the same time you can flip the switch and play complete rushdown

 

[Niko_K]

I have a semi recent video of me vs my friends GaW. I play badly in the beginning but oh well. You guys can review it for good points if you'd like.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xwckq_ZiZy8

 

[hova]

i like ur edgeguard shizz

i might have to steal that

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Yeah that's more effective than I realized!!

 

[Villi]

Wowee, nice edge play!

 

[EdreesesPieces]

So I think i'll be wrapping things up on Game and Watch here with a 55-45 advantage to Sir Watch from overall consensus and the points made about it. So who to for next week? Marth? Dedede? Falco?

 

[DrakeRowan]

My vote goes to Dedede

 

[Dark.Pch]

Yea DeDeDe. He is another over used character. So best to be ready for him.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I agree, okay Dedede it is then. Let the discussion begin. I'll add more later, all I gotta say is that down air is the staple to this matchup.

 

[Morrigan]

Chaingrabs, chaingrabs and more chaingrabs, avoid them by staying in the air as much as possible at lower %s?

 

[BoTastic!]

Dair rips him apart.

He takes forever to kill

chaingrabs...

 

[Gea]

Triple dair and dsmash work so well against him. Gotta avoid bair and utilt... and grabs.

 

[Villi]

I would watch out for his dair when you're chasing him -- if he likes to counter with it, you might be able to get him with a shield dash utilt, but I haven't tried it. Recover high from his fthrow 'cause he could be setting you up for a fair edge guard. Keep the pressure on, but don't stay in positions to be grabbed/utilted out of your float.

Hit and run him until he's dead, watch your spacing and I think the better player wins pretty much.

 

[Morrigan]

Make him swallow your turnips and punish? lol. I don't how many Dededes use the swallow though.

 

[deepseadiva]

My advice, avoid that bair with EVERYTHING. Stupid duck has one of more developed edge-guarding moves in the game and getting trapped against that little kick thing is not fun. He's pretty easy to kill via YOUR OWN edge-guarding ironically, but if he can get you off the stage - GET BACK ON! That would be your priority.

Otherwise I think this match is GREATLY in Peach's favor no? The Waddledees eliminate most of her ground game, but turnips from above paired with the dair and the rest of her aerials make this an easy one no?

 

[Airgemini]

I think that maybe we should also start adding which stages are in favor, not in favor, or are neutral with Peach when fighting whatever character we're discussing.

 

[Dark.Pch]

DDD Can chain grab Peach at any percent. Peach and Marth are the easiest characters for DDD to chaingrab. If DDD Does it right, your not getting out. Only way you are breaking free is if DDD messes up on it.

This fight is all about spacing. Space your moves as much as you can. His Range when he spaces can be a pain. If you miss space just for a sec, your gonna get grabbed. Space your moves and pressure his shield as much as possible. You can pressure him better than he can do you.

I dont care how big he is or his speed. DDD is not the character you wanna rush. Cause his grabs are insane. So you mess up once, even through jabs, your gonna get grabbed.

This can lead to a campfest so if you lose your cool easy in fights, your in trouble. Also due to the fact that he does not die so easy. So if your gonna go Fair happy, expect him to live no matter how many times you get him off the stage.

What you wanna do is just rack up damage. Then once he is at a good %, then get some kill moves off him. just do basic combos if you can get them in (yes now I recommend you go combo happy on him) to get some damage off. Since Nair cant really kill DDD that well, but had decent power, use it out the shield alot, or in general if you can. Get some jabs, Dairs, Nairs and grabs in there to start off when he is below 100% Just be quick and get him with those hits, and some turnips. Save your B/U/Nair for after or close to 100%. Also if you can get a pillar off him then go for it. also helps rack up damage and eats the shield (BUT SPACE IT CAUSE HE CAN GRAB YOU IF YOU SCREW IT UP)

When you grab him, dont throw him right away. Kick him a few good times then toss him. He is not gonna die so why not rack up some damage while he is in your grip. For throw options at mid % or higher, just throw him Up. Why? Cause for one thing, Fthrow won't kill him and he will also DI it so he will be at a point where turnips wont hit him, or you for that matter. Now if you throw him up, he is easier to hit with turnips cause he is above field range and you can hit him with turnips easy. And he is not all that fast while airborn. Its kinda slow. Your not gonna kill him off of throws so keep him at a range where you can attack him and get a finisher off. But you can sneak Fthrows in as well and it can screw up thier DI. And will get launched foward in stead of going high up off of the fthrow. And from there it wont be hard to snipe him with turnips or a finisher.

If there are waddledees while in your range, get rid of them. To leave them around the stage, you will regret it.

Don't be in the air too much. Cause it can be clearly seen what you are gonna do. And DDD will just be rolling away. Though making it hard to hit him, no matter how big he is. And you won't be getting anywhere. Mix both your air and ground game. (I recommend you get your ground game on point if you don't have a good one. or your gonna have some trouble. You cant always be in the air)

Get your grabs in there. you can do the most and the easiest damage off of him off your grabs. Mix them up. with your dash attacks. Actually, I limit my dash attacks here. Don't use them so much here.

 

[Morrigan]

I think that maybe we should also start adding which stages are in favor, not in favor, or are neutral with Peach when fighting whatever character we're discussing.

Then avoid FD against DDD, Jungle Japes and Lylat Cruise/Yoshi's Island is the way to go.
Also, since he has slow jumps and his UpB comes out with a little bit of lag he will mostly die if he gets in the water of JJ

 

[deepseadiva]

If there are waddledees while in your range, get rid of them. To leave them around the stage, you will regret it.

They aren't to big of a hassle are they? I mean the Waddledoos are annoying with their lasers, but otherwise the others are just punching-bags right?

 

[Dark.Pch]

They aren't to big of a hassle are they? I mean the Waddledoos are annoying with their lasers, but otherwise the others are just punching-bags right?

They are a pain. And that electric one...omg, how many times has that cause me to get *****. don't leave then on the field. They will attack you. Also if you crash into then, they will lag you if you have something going, slow you down, and easier for DeDeDe to get at you.

 

[~Peachy~]

Wow! Love the Mario Kart Wii pic! Anyways, I think DDD is pretty easy a pretty easy match-up for Peach. ( or maybe I just never fight good DDD's)

Dair is DDD's weakness. Just float over him while he camps with Waddle Dees, Dair, and follow up with more Dairs, a fair, or something else. He is comboed very easily, but the problem( as expected) is KOing DDD. And that's where it gets tricky if you have used Peach's Koing moves to rack up damage already.

Sometimes, I have to kill DDD at 200% IMO, edgeguarding him comes with mixed results. Sometimes, he is able to get passed my turnip throws and dodges my nairs/ bairs. But Peach's Forward aerial and U-air works wonders against DDD. ( for me at least)

The annoying things about Triple D...... the camping can get VERY annoying. Especially when an unexpected Gordo comes after you. They kill at pretty good percents if you're not careful. One time, the opponent didn't click "all items off" instead, he tried playing smart and switch items to "None" This can trigger DDD to throw ANY item with his Side B. Would that be considered breaking the rules? Just wondering....

Anyway..... the DDD's I've played are pretty predictable. Camp with Waddle Dee's and start breaking out the hammer once you're close. Just float over the incoming junk and dair DDD into a combo, simple as that. DDD's chain grab's are somewhat brutal so I cannot stress enough that each should Be midair for most of the battle.( but trying to stay unpredictable is important too!)

His Bair... and pretty much all of his aerials/tilts can either rack up damage or send you flying at nice percents. Peach can usually watch out for DDD's F smash, but it is still dangerous and can kill at very low percents so watch out for those...

Okay.. I think I'm done. To some up my useless info:

Peach matchup: 70-30 in Peach's favor( maybe the #'s are too high?)

Important things to know:

Combo's! Combo's! Combo's! They are important to actually get him to killing range.
Dodge those grabs! They can rack up damage quickly.

DDD player's underestimate Peach. Just look at this:

Difficulty: Easy

"She's light, she's not that good. Her approach is mostly through the air while floating, fair, dair and w/e else, use bair to stop this, it pretty much destroys all of her approaches. On the ground you are far superior to her. You way outrange her, and if she's close enough to fsmash you, then she should already be grabbed. Tech chase kills are nice against her cuz she's so light. She will have a real problem trying to KO you. Also, use her turnips against her if you can get them in the air. She can't kill you under like 130,140 w/ any of her moves. It's a pretty simple matchup, you outprioritize her in the air, you outrange her in the air, you outprioritize her on the ground, you outrange her on the ground. Nuff' said"

Although its true she can't kill until high percents, its fairly easy to rack the damage up there. TAKE ADVANTAGE WHEN HE CAMPS! He is wide open from above when throwing waddle Dees! Let's show those DDD mains that Peach should not be taken lightly!



*Ends Useless Speach*

 

[deepseadiva]

One time, the opponent didn't click "all items off" instead, he tried playing smart and switch items to "None" This can trigger DDD to throw ANY item with his Side B. Would that be considered breaking the rules? Just wondering....

Are you sure about this? What'd he throw? I've never heard of this...

 

[Zephramrill]

One time a D3 threw a smashball at me

 

[DrakeRowan]

As already mentioned, I find Dedede one of my easier opponents. Many of Peach's combos and strings can really dish it out to the poor penguin.

When Dedede is losing, you should be careful when approaching him while off the stage since he may try to suck you up and take you with him.

Dedede's real damage racker is that dang Waddle Doo. If you get caught in those zaps it will do some hefty damage and it'll be a perfect chance for Dedede to counter. Make sure to deal with them when you have the chance.

Be VERY evasive in this fight and space well since one grab and off the stage Peach goes via CG.

I'll give this match 55/45 in Peach's favor.

Does anyone know if Peach's USmash and/or Utilt out prioritize Dedede's UpB when he's coming down?

EDIT:

She can't kill you under like 130,140 w/ any of her moves.

I've killed a Dedede via Star KO with Peach's UpSmash at 96% on Halberd once before.

 

[Morrigan]

And what's with the Dededes putting her on "Easy" then?

 

[Dark.Pch]

As already mentioned, I find Dedede one of my easier opponents. Many of Peach's combos and strings can really dish it out to the poor penguin.

When Dedede is losing, you should be careful when approaching him while off the stage since he may try to suck you up and take you with him.

Dedede's real damage racker is that dang Waddle Doo. If you get caught in those zaps it will do some hefty damage and it'll be a perfect chance for Dedede to counter. Make sure to deal with them when you have the chance.

Be VERY evasive in this fight and space well since one grab and off the stage Peach goes via CG.

I'll give this match 55/45 in Peach's favor.

Does anyone know if Peach's USmash and/or Utilt out prioritize Dedede's UpB when he's coming down?

EDIT:



I've killed a Dedede via Star KO with Peach's UpSmash at 96% on Halberd once before.

DDD is not that simple to just go in and combo. He can space hella well and even camp to keep distance. Also hr can snip you out the air easy with his waddledees. When you play good DDD' and high levels of play you will see.

And yes you can upsmash or uptilt DDD UpB coming down.

I sae this fight is even 50-50