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Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

GodAtHand

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just throwing in my opinion.

I main Zelda but Peach is my secondary, so... yah.

I am saying 55-45 Peach. The main reason being that both characters have to punish the others mistakes to be most efficient. And I feel like Zelda's mistakes are more obvious and usually easily punished by Peach because of her float. Although this seems BIG Zelda still has the kill percentages on her side. If she hits Peach with an up air at like 50% Peach will probably die and etc...

That is all...
 

Morrigan

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55:45 / 60:40 Zelda
65:35 / 70:30 Sheik


I think we should move Olimar to 75:25, maybe 80:20. The time we start discussing the low tiers it'd be too off...there will be a couple of "****" matchups, but none of them match Olimar's.
 

gantrain05

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55:45 / 60:40 Zelda
65:35 / 70:30 Sheik


I think we should move Olimar to 75:25, maybe 80:20. The time we start discussing the low tiers it'd be too off...there will be a couple of "****" matchups, but none of them match Olimar's.
i was playing peach dittos yesterday at a tourny, the only good peach players i even know of in my area are me and this other guy, but anyways, i beat him in dittos, so i went thru my other characters while he played peach, and i got to olimar, he's my secondary, and honestly if olimar really knows the matchup it isn't so bad, i think because i main peach i know her tricks and how to avoid them, but the end result was that i did win with olimar 0% on my last stock. i don't know if its 80-20 im thinking maybe 70-30.
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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Not sure if it's been said (sorry I don't know a right lot on this match up) but when recovering with Floating, never ever ever drop your Float if you think Zelda will attempt to Din's Fire you - just use Nair. It will stop it in it's tracks and airdodging means giving up your Float and potentially getting hit by Din's anyway

I've found that if Zelda is repeatdly using SH'ed Fair/Bair as pressure to force Peach to approach/run into it, Dash attack works nicely (mainly the 2nd hit) to hit her when she is falling back to the ground
 

Charoo

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peach does great vs sheik. This is probably the second most knowledgeable match up I understand in this game after peach vs falcon.

First of all, you cannot tilt lock peach. She can nair out of it. This is gonig to surprise a lot of sheik players when you fight a peach the first time. It is also hard to not do it especially if you just fought like a fox or something. The finger memory can actually own sheik herself vs peach. Of course, you can forward tilt to nair or up tilt at certain percentages. Usually though, peach shouldn't be in that predicament anyway. It is very hard for me to land a tilt on edrees because he spaces so well. This can hurt sheik a lot because tilt is the fundamental of sheik's game play. It's like taking away fox's down air. Doesn't make them useless but forces them to fight a new style.

Also, peach can get out of sheik's continuous jab too so you can't even replace the jabs for tilt lock.

Now, besides that, peach rules the air vs sheik. You cannot go head to head vs peach in the air unless u force peach to be above you somehow and that's still risky. You still want to space ur moves but don't worry about being dominate in the air.

Ground game wise, this is where sheik have a chance vs peach. The needles and grabs is ur best bet vs peach which only really work on the ground. Peach can still float over them but it's kinda complicate to explain. You have to trick peach into staying on the ground which is hard to do. Like Edrees stated before too, I DACUS him when I know he's going to float. It's not that hard to condition people to jump/float in general when they r scare of needles hitting them.

When edgeguarding, Peach have nasty stuff vs sheik. The way the turnip is being place forces sheik to up b earlier or lower because sheik's up b have very limited control. Forward b doesn't work too if the turnip is drop right. You'll jsut get hit by it when you pull in the chain. Sheik can edge guard peach kinda but very tricky. You need to fully understand how peach's up b works if u ever want to hit her.

match up wise. Whoever gets the first kill USUALLY wins. When I fight Edrees or vs other peach players, it is always who get the first kill. They both die about 150% against each other since they both lack a strong killing move. Then, you just play really defensive and rack up % on their second stock and do it until it's over.

That's the stuff in my head right now. There's more little detail stuff but I don't really wanna go into it.

60-40 in peach's favor mainly because she can limit a lot of sheik's option and can combo her like no 2morrow. Take sheik to stages that are small. Force her to fight you and you'll win. Don't go to like a giant stage where she can needle camp you. Stages that are easy to edge guard are nice too.
 

Excel_Zero

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Zelda's upsmash>Peach's dair :(

lol I can't say much about this matchup. I play both Zelda and Sheik, but no one else does, so I don't have all that much experience. I know it's annoying and you have to play different than usual though.
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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-Pikachu- :pikachu2: 50-50

Discussion: Posts 1019 - 1199

What to Watch out For:
-Spammable projectile (thunder jolts)
-Up + B, Quick Attack. Good recovery and can used to perform the Quick Attack combo, leading to enhanced use of thunder jolts/aerial attacking
-Fast movement speed/attacks
-Thunder, a good edgeguarding move. Also a good finisher for when Peach is in the air
-Strong multi hit Down Smash
-Up Tilt/Uair for juggling
-Strong Up Smash/F Smash when sweetspotted

Matchup Mentality:
-Learn to Powersheild his thunder jolts. This is crucial if you want to win
-Nair will hit Pikachu out of his Quick Attack. Nair also outprioritzes all of Pikachu's aerials. Useful for breaking out of his juggling
-F Tilt/Up Tilt will hit Pikachu out of aerials provided you get the hit in first
-Toad works well vs Pikachu
-Use Turnips wisely. Thunder jolts and Turnips will cancel each other out if they connect
-Clever use of Floating, especially to avoid thunder jolts
-Watch how Pikachu uses Thunder. Don't let him trick and don't run into it
-Watch carefully how Pikachu uses the Quick Attack Combo. Nair/D Smash will knock Pikachu out of this

Did you know?
-If you hit Pikachu whilst he is using his Down Smash with an aerial you will always get hit. Wait until he has finished and punish it
-Turnips are bad for gimping Pikachu's recovery
-F Smash is an excellent punishing move after sheilding a D Smash
-If you get caught in Pikachu's D Smash, at higher percents you can Smash DI out of it. Be ready to tech against the floor when you do escape it

Quotes:


I have played anther (yes on wifi, may not mean much from both sides but the matches we had we went even. i won some and so did he) So I learned this match up pretty well. His jolts I just Powershield and run out of my shield too him. if I have a turnip, powershield to glide toss.

His Dsmash, one of the main problems People seem to have with him. I usually bait the move if I tend to know he will Dsmash. Then punish with at air attack, glide toss or grab. if I get caught in it. I smash DI out of it. its not that hard to do so that takes care of that problem.

If pika uses his Quick attack cancels on you, attack out of your shield if he lands near you. But expect follow ups after the quick attacks. i usually do an instand FC>Nair to shut that game down.

Pika does not really have a solid approach on you, nor many options for it. But you do so you beat him there. when Pika starts his combos, he is good at sticking to Peach due to her weight. This would be his air game mostly. But you also got the combos on him. So its 50/50 on this part. Though it is a lot harder for pika to keep it up.

Makes 2 main solid kills on Peach are his Upsmash and thunder. Don't get thunder while off the stage, you will die quickly. Anther once throw me off, than ran next to me and thundered. I was near his body i believe and I died on battle field around 52 or 62%. reason for this was it sent me side ways more than upward.

Dsmash wont kill you until you are at High %. unless the Dsmash sends you upward then he catches you with thunder. Fsmash you can live that pretty well if you DI up and to the stage.

His ground game is not all that. So if you can do damage with Peach on the ground then you are good. turnip follow ups work well against Pika cause not much he can do about it.

Edgeguarding him if not that much of a problem. Snip or Zdrop turnips. If you have quick reactions, you can tell where pika is gonna go when coming back to the stage. so it is not that hard to punish or even gimp him out of his recovery.

Pika is not that hard to kill. If you keep you kill moves fresh, pika wont be un the stage for long. And you have a few kill moves to Pika then he does on you.

I say this is ether 50-50 or sightly in Peach's favor. Me playing Anther made me realize just how tuff Pika is, but being on point, the match seems even for me and him.
i regularly play, what alot of people consider one of the best pika's in the midwest, although i don't know if he goes to any major tourneys, he's always at my monthley tourney tho, he goes by CBK, but i've played pika so many times, and i'd have to say its really close to 50-50 Dair cancels pika's projectiles, and combos really well, and if you can set up a good Fair you can kill pika at pretty low percents, but at the same time, its not easy to land those kill moves on pika, they are always moving and spend alot of the time in the air, and the pika i play uses alot of QAC, i've gotten used to it, and i can just Dsmash to cancel his QAC before it leads to anything, but really this matchup comes down to whoever has the better spacing imo, pikas Dsmash is very easy to DI out of with peach, but still watch for it, it wont kill you but if you keep getting caught in it thats alot of damage your taking, i think the main killer for pika against peach in this one is his Usmash, its comparable to fox's in both speed and power, and try not to give pika the chance to catch a turnip, his glide toss > Fsmash is a very nasty combo.
I personally believe the match up is 50-50. Pikachu has a better ground game but Peach has a better air game

Pikachu has a variety of ways to build up damage. He can Down Smash you, grab you ---> constant Up Tilt ---> various aerials or just spam you to death with Thunder Jolts combined with Quick Attack or just simply camping with them

It is essential you learn how to Perfect Sheild Pikachu's Thunder Jolts as it will make this match up much easier. Pikachu has reasonably significant lag after using them. By perfect sheilding T Jolts, you can punish a Pikachu who has poorly spaced his T Jolts. Floating works surprisingly well in this match up as it gives you the ease to move backwards and forwards in the air to avoid his T Jolts. Pikachus T Jolts are fired digonally down the way he is facing so if he's going to hit you in the air, he's going to have to get pretty close/slightly higher than you. Make good use of your 2nd jump in this match as a spacing/dodging tool and don't be afraid to get in close and take advantage of the vunerability Pikachu has after using his T Jolts.

Make use of Dairs in this match but be aware of Pikachus Up Tilt - it comes out fast and if you time your Dairs wrong, you'll get a face full of Up Tilt. If Pikachu attempts to continually Up Tilt you, try Floating out the way and if you think Pikachu will jump up to try and hit you with an aerial, get a Nair in there. Turnips are helpful in this match as well. Glide Tossing works but Turnips are cancelled out by Pikachu's T Jolts. Time your pulls well because Pikachu is quick and can punish you if he's close by with a Dash attack (or worse, an Up Smash). I personally like to save my Turnips and throw them in the air to counter a jumping T Jolt spamming Pikachu

Pikachu has decent aerials. Uair has low knockback and will mainly be used for juggling. Bair is a damage builder - if you get stuck in this, DI upwards out of it. Dair has a very very deceptive hitbox and as an additional hit when landing. If Pikachu uses this above you, get ready for on Up Tilt. If he SH's it, Sheild it/Float out of the way and be prepared to punish his landing lag. Pikachus Fair comes out fast, has reasonable range and has multi hits. If Pikachu SH spams this, counter it with by jumping back and coming down with your Fair which has more range (this is difficult as Pikachus Fair has more range than it would first appear). If Pikachu uses fast falled Fairs, depending on where he his, counter it with an Up/F Tilt. If that doesn't look like it'll work, sheild it and roll out the way (this is by far the safest option). Getting hit with Pikachus Fair can lead into some nasty moves such as following into an Up Tilt/Down Smash. You can punish poorly spaced Fairs by walking backwards and using F Smash as well. Remember, if you're close enough, Nair will outprioritze/trade hits with Pikachus aerials

Pikachu has a variety of kill methods and his killing power is better/more flexible than Peachs. His main ones are his F Smash, Up Smash, Down Smash and Thunder. If you get stuck in his Down Smash, Smash DI up out of it (be prepared to tech on the floor). Never EVER try to hit Pikachu out of his D Smash with an aerial until he's finished using it because you WILL get hit. If you sheild the D Smash, wait until you are out of hitting range and punish Pikachu with an F Smash. Be aware of clever Thunder use! If Pikachu knocks you up into the air and you're at a high percent, don't get tricked as this is a very easy kill for Pikachu. Pikachu can wait for you to airdodge and then punish or run over to where he thinks you'll move in the air and punish you that way. Or if he's feeling really technical, he can use QA to dart about/catch up with you and use Thunder. If you get hit by Pikachus F Smash, your best bet is to DI diagonally upwards as DI'ing straight up risks a ceiling kill

Watch out for Pikachus Quick Attack. Not only is this good recovery, Pikachu can use this to perform the QAC and zoom around the place to enhance Thunder Jolt spamming (jump up and B reversal), rack up damage and jump out with aerials. You can knock Pikachu out of this aerials/smashes with nearly anything in your moveset. Actually doing this though is difficult

Pikachu has a more versatile recovery than Peach and whilst it's difficult to gimp, it's not impossible. Turnips are useless for gimping unless you're trying to get some extra damage on Pikachu. Watch how your opponent recovers and take advantage of it. Nairing him out of the Quick Attack isn't easy but it can be done. Be ready to grab onto the ledge for an edgeguard if you think Pikachu is going for the ledge

Toad is very useful in this match up, paticularly against aggressive Thunder use (never use it high in the air though if Pikachu is trying to kill you off the top) and close T Jolt spamming. Make good use of him but don't spam him (as always)

So far, after taking everything into account, I think the match up is 50-50. Both characters can rack damage up against each other, both have a decent projectile (Peachs is argueably better in this match) and both have reasonable KO ability (Pikachus is better when he lands them correctly though. Peach's Fair isn't a very good damage builder in this match up so it will be kept fairly fresh which is a bonus)
Hope no one minds...you did need it doing right Edreese? Hope this helps. Sorry for quoting myself/it being so long :/
 

Morrigan

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You didn't specifically mention Pika's QAC. You do talk about his Quick Attack, but you should point out that his QAC can be dangerous;)
 

gantrain05

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so who's next after shiek/zelda? the fox boards are going to discuss the peach matchup soon, if we haven't done fox its probably a good idea to do it when they are doing the peach matchup.
 

Blistering Speed

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Peach : Shiek in my experience is 60:40/55:45. Shiek gets edgeguarded well by Peach, the match will go on A LONG time because of awkward kill moves on both sides, just make sure the Shiek doesn't bait a float and then DACUS. Peach takes away alot of Shiek's tilt game with her N Air too, so Shiek has to play differently to usual. Air games are for the most part even, but only if the Shiek knows to abuse B Air, otherwise Peach walks all over her. Ground game is for the most part Shiek's if she plays gay, with Needle camping and quick F Tilt to N Airs etc. though as previously stated Shiek can't tilt lock, something she thrives on.
 

gantrain05

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Fox boards are discussing peach!!! get in there and give em some input....they seem to only think peach has the CG on fox.....dark.pch....edrees we need you.
 

JigglyZelda003

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Fox boards are discussing peach!!! get in there and give em some input....they seem to only think peach has the CG on fox.....dark.pch....edrees we need you.
i put in the begining that its only a little bonus XD
but can you really blame us? (in Fox main mode) Fox gets CG all over the place like hes bowser.
 

kujibiki57

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ZSS next please, one of my friends play a good one, and I also want to get better with her
 

gantrain05

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well, i don't have literally ANY practice on good ZSS's there was one ZSS from minnesota that came down once and just wrecked alot of people, till he was beaten down by 2 snakes in a row lol. but from what i saw, a good ZSS is a beast with her spacing and makes it hell to get inside and actually hit her, but i imagine that floating at the right height could get through alot of the ZSS spam since she can only really hit straight in front or right above her it seems.
 

EdreesesPieces

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ZSS is next, and i'll get the main page updated with everything this sunday. IMO Zss has 55-45 advantage on peach, it's kind of tough if they play defensive. real reasons this sunday!
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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I've played a few good ZSS's and the more I play them, the more I think Peach is at a disadvantage here

First off AVOID PLATFORMS LIKE THE PLAGUE!!! I cannot stress how important this is. Places like Battlefield are a nightmare vs a ZSS who knows what they are doing

ZSS is fast. She's got quick and surprisingly good aerials. Her main sources of damage racking will be in the form of her Up + B to drag you up and down, her aerial juggling and her evil D Smash x 2 ---> something else (normally an aerial. This can also be used for setting up a kill :/)

Her Side B is freakin evil. Never EVER Toad it at the tip of it as the spores will miss. She can bounce back and forth using this as a silly wall of plasma. I'm still not eniterly sure how to deal with this despite doing it in my thread so...I'll see what's posted here

Do not be fooled into thinking ZSS has bad recovery simply because it's a tether one. A combination of her high jumps and Down + B (which is an evil spike) will see it so you might not even get a chance to edgeguard

I honestly don't think we have the advantage here
 

JigglyZelda003

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yes avoid platform stages lol. also floating height is very important cause if your even just a hair too low she can Dsmash us while floating. floating in general is kinda wierd when fighting her cause she has some good OoS or run in options. too high and theres a possiblility of Usmash or upB OoS/while running. just to low and she can Utilt OoS. and like edress said its tough to get at her if shes on the defensive.
 

kujibiki57

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Well, the problem with ZSS is that if you are floating above the range of her sideB and her B, she will probably short hop backwards and use her sideB to hit you.

Then, you should avoid edgehogging her, because she can stagespike you with many of her attacks, and if you try to float next to the ledge her sideB will probably reach the ledge.

And then there are the armor pieces, which shouldn't be way too tough to deal with, since most Peach players are used to glide tossing, but they are annoying anyway.

I think it may be a 55:45 or even 60:40 matchup for ZSS
 

Morrigan

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Are these values okay? 'Cause I'm updating the matchup chart

60:40 advantage on Sheik
55:45 slight advantage on Zelda

or are they both at 60:40 disadvantage vs. Peach?
 

ph00tbag

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I think Peach has the tools to edgehog ZSS, you just really have to know what you're doing, and be aware of all of ZSS's options.

Other than that, Plasma Whip is the answer to aerial approaches, so floating is kinda ruled out by default, unless you can airdodge into an attack, which would be useful to you. Paralyzer and dsmash will probably force you higher than you're comfortable with, too. Not to mention being above ZSS is definitely not a good thing in general.

You can probably outcamp ZSS with radishes, but be careful not to use them too much, or she'll probably turn them against you. ZSS has a very good glide toss, so be careful.

All in all, I think ZSS has better tools at her disposal than Peach in this match-up. It's not a big one, but I'd agree that ZSS has the advantage, although this is almost entirely theorycraft. 55/45 seems alright.
 

Morrigan

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Don't forget about the annoying armor parts...what do you normally do with them? 'Cuase I've seen Zamus' that just throw them away, or just leave them there...I don't know.

And doesn't Peach's Dair outprioritize Zamus' Paralyzer and Dmash?
 

Airgemini

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Don't forget about the annoying armor parts...what do you normally do with them? 'Cuase I've seen Zamus' that just throw them away, or just leave them there...I don't know.
I normally glide toss downwards because the armor gets a nice little bounce, and makes you slide pretty far. I sometimes like to glide toss them downwards and grab.
 
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