Official SWF Tier List v8

[BlueXenon]

Where would Diddy Kong be on the tier list if the top Diddy Kong players that are left learned how to do the banana infinite constantly?

 

[da K.I.D.]

same place he is now, because then every other character would learn to do THEIR banana infinites consistently.

 

[xDD-Master]

wolf and lucarios are the fastest but they do very little damage per hit, therefore, even though sonics and lucas' are slightly slower, they build damage faster due to doing way more damage per hit.

but faster can still be better, because of refreshing moves.

 

[infiniteV115]

Also Lucario's pummel % increases with aura.

 

[Espy Rose]

Your moves don't refresh if you're perfectly buffering pummels. They don't register as multiple hits.

 

[da K.I.D.]

also lucarios pummel starts off by doing about .5% per hit. but even at max aura it only does roughly 1.3% per hit, which still isnt enough to top the dps of lucas and sonics pummels.

 

[Seagull Joe]

has the best pummels. He doesn't even have hands to do pummels with. He uses vines.

 

[Player-1]

Then don't buffer pummels

 

[Espy Rose]

Then you're not optimizing damage.

Refusing to buffer pummels only works in specific scenarios were you've staled out your KO moves, and that really only heavily applies to characters who lack reliable KO moves to begin with, like Sonic or Lucas.

Wolf wouldn't need a general reason to unstale through pummels because he has a handful of varying KO options, and Lucario's aura makes pretty much anything he touches a kill.

 

[-LzR-]

Is doing 2% more damage really worth giving up 2-3 stale move slots though? I say no.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Is doing 2% more damage really worth giving up 2-3 stale move slots though? I say no.

I say yes.

 

[Dekillsage]

People will mash out. Take the damage as it comes

 

[Player-1]

unstaling moves> 2%

 

[infiniteV115]

unstaling moves> 2%

Depends on the situation but I think more often than not, this is true.

 

[Tesh]

for a fast weak pummel, i guess it just depends on how much u need to hesitate to get the stale moves refreshed. i wouldn't think its worth it to skip a pummel with sonic/lucas/olimar though

 

[Dekillsage]

If people mash out you might as well get fast pummels and a throw. Instead of like a few slow pummels and no throw

 

[Z'zgashi]

Well as a Yoshi/Bowser/Mario player, I personally refresh my moves since they all have badish pummels (especially Bowser, so god damned slow lol)

 

[BSP]

Your moves don't refresh if you're perfectly buffering pummels. They don't register as multiple hits.

How many characters does this apply to?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

How many characters does this apply to?

That was something I never had explained to me. I think you have to wait until the animation is complete and you cannot do it during the time when the flag could be activated and the end of the animation.

 

[Orion*]

same place he is now, because then every other character would learn to do THEIR banana infinites consistently.

Kinda disagree,
most of the community still suck with items, to expect them to learn anything past basic control is hilarious at this point to me

Even then, diddy start out with bananas, and has a character build simply designed to utilize bananas. I hate when people just simply post use diddys bananas against him as an argument against him being good because it simply ignores all of the real things that happen in a matchup.

Im waiting for diddys to find a way to do the infinite off of a double banana lock or some simple punish.... it just would be soooo obnoxious >_>
although ADHD is probably the only diddy with a consistent enough punish game despite being rusty to technically abuse that

 

[Tesh]

i thought you couldnt buffer pummels..

anyway only 1 character has such bad throws and kill power that you should go for as many pummels as possible...

Marth

 

[Orion*]

i thought you couldnt buffer pummels..

anyway only 1 character has such bad throws and kill power that you should go for as many pummels as possible...

Marth

If you're trolling it's not even entertaining

If you're serious then you're ridiculous, as many years as you've played this game (or who knows, maybe you just watch youtube vids now I really dont know) it's been a waste if you think marth has garbage options off of throws

 

[FourStar]

I just might, Joe. I'm not going to EVO, so that makes it a financial reality... I hope. ;-;

sorry but where have you been lately? :D good to see you are still active!

 

[Player-1]

Im waiting for diddys to find a way to do the infinite off of a double banana lock or some simple punish.... it just would be soooo obnoxious >_>
although ADHD is probably the only diddy with a consistent enough punish game despite being rusty to technically abuse that

we've been infiniting people out of double banana lock for like...a year now...

 

[Tesh]

i think he means the good diddy kong

 

[Sar]

If you're trolling it's not even entertaining

If you're serious then you're ridiculous, as many years as you've played this game (or who knows, maybe you just watch youtube vids now I really dont know) it's been a waste if you think marth has garbage options off of throws

Haha, you should read about a page back. There was quite the war about this.

 

[Player-1]

i think he means the good diddy kong

i'm the only one

 

[Espy Rose]

There are no Diddy Kongs.

 

[Orion*]

we've been infiniting people out of double banana lock for like...a year now...

I have yet to see in a high level video people convert a double banana lock to an infinite without a wall >_>

if something like a dumb tornado starts getting punished by something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7Yzu2j6aE4#t=3m45s

it would be hilarious
I'm not even sure if that's true or not if they buffer roll, I didn't bother to test that personally. but consist converts oos into stock punishes is not realistically happening at top level even if they are possible numerically.

Haha, you should read about a page back. There was quite the war about this.

that's so sad

 

[Player-1]

I have yet to see in a high level video people convert a double banana lock to an infinite without a wall >_>

if something like a dumb tornado starts getting punished by something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7Yzu2j6aE4#t=3m45s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SzAIFmA897E#t=27s


We can only convert it if the banana is in front of us also, if we start the double banana lock some times we have to turn around to grab the banana that just hit the opponent and if that happens then it takes too much time to turn around to grab it and run to the opponent to start it, only if the banana is in front of us after after glidetossing the other banana

 

[| Big D |]

In that scenario would Zinoto have enough time to instead go for a short hop and toss the banana downwards instead of going for the footstool setup?

Just wondering how much flexibility Diddy has when setting up the infinite from a double naner lock.

 

[Player-1]

I don't think so, what he could have done instead would be to run up at him and jump cancel a pivot down throw to start it but then he runs the risk of the other banana messing up the infinite, footstooling from a position like that is much better since it's faster than SH>dthrow banana

 

[Orion*]

^ you actually have me on the vid link. I forgot exactly how that set started XD
I remembered it was an infinite, but for reason I thought zinoto just ran up and dthrowed the banana lmfao.

I definitely know it's a situation that occurs infrequently spacing and setup wise, although I didnt know the specifics in regards to how you have to space yourself relative to the bananas.

If an easier way to convert it was found though, it would make the character verrrry silly.

 

[Player-1]

the double banana lock isn't that frequent of a situation at higher levels of play, usually a glidetoss down is the best way to punish someone for missing spacing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Hh1PZMMM_R4#t=229s

also people have to remember stages affect the infinite. Yoshi's Island platform gets in the way of starting the footstool one, the slopes can affect it too depending on the character, then the random shy guys that come and go can mess it up. Battlefield's platforms it becomes extremely hard to infinite under and it's not possible on some characters, we basically have to buffer almost everything to keep it going. Etc.

 

[TreK]

Dodge dropping as diddy.

Just how useful is it ?
It's worked a lot better than expected for me. It allowed me to make comebacks on players that are waaaaay better than I am. I use it as an anti juggle, and ledge trap, as you would expect. But just how good is it by today's standards ?

 

[Player-1]

I use it all the time :/

 

[Shaya]

Basically, everything a toon link does with bombs, you can do with bananas. And you should be doing it with bananas.

 

[Player-1]

TL's bombs still can hit you after it hits your shield :/

 

[Shaya]

Bombs > Bannanas
Diddy drops to 15th on the tier list.

 

[Player-1]

He's low tier