Official SWF Matchup Chart v3.0

[Rizen]

I'd like to see more discussions on MUs and stuff. As the OP says, there probably won't be anymore MU chart releases, and instead we'll just update it accordingly as time goes by.

'We' as in the BBR? I hope player input will be the driving factor?

 

[Flayl]

So it's happened, Bowser VS PT is called a -2

I guess it's a good thing I can't get myself to care anymore.

 

[8Bitman]

So I am $10 MMing every IC, Marth, Diddy, Wario and ZSS I find at WHOBO. R.O.B obv the worst.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

So I am $10 MMing every IC, Marth, Diddy, Wario and ZSS I find at WHOBO. R.O.B obv the worst.

Dude are you ****ing crazy?

 

[8Bitman]

Dude are you ****ing crazy?

I like how 1 person knows the infinite.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I like how 1 person knows the infinite.

1 Person? There are two ZSS's in my region that know the infinite!

 

[8Bitman]

And ill 3-0 them both.

 

[Player-1]

okay ROB is free

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

BAH BAH BAH BAH BAH

 

[Dekillsage]

I believe in 8bitman
rob4ever

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

i believe in 8bitman

 

[8Bitman]

Cool, I will make a list. Hopefully I can actually do all of them. P-1 first.

 

[Z'zgashi]

#8bitman2013

 

[Luigi player]

but with the definition of "who is winning how often in 10 matches"

That definition sucks anyway.

Just go with "has an advantage". 10-0: unbelieveable big advantage that makes it nearly impossible to win.
5-5: even
6:4: one has an advantage, but it's not too big

etc

If one character has an advantage, he should win that MU almost 100 % of the time. I could give it the rating 7:3, because it's a big advantage, but for you it would mean "could still lose the set, even though it's unlikely", even though it is very very much more unlikely than that (unless the player is just much more better).

This is what the -4 to +4 rating is trying to do. It wants to show that it's not a ratio, but imo there are too few options for them... but we all know it might not even help, because people have such big different opinions that some think a MU is +2 and others think it's -1 or w/e. This could make it even more difficult to come together to a ratio...

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

And ill 3-0 them both.

k, I'll convince V115 to go to Whobo

 

[8Bitman]

That's nice.

 

[Marcbri]

I disagree with marth vs falco, it should be +1 for marth IMO

This sooo much. Wish I could have been on the Falco panel to fight this one for years if needed lol.

 

[infiniteV115]

I could actually see myself losing to 8Bit, he probably has more NR exp than I do vs Holy's ROB. I'm actually pretty rusty at that MU

Regardless if I somehow managed to make it to WHOBO5 I'd gladly MM him

 

[8Bitman]

You're post is the reason I'm doing this. You're not the only one. But yeah, if you come, fun times.

 

[xDD-Master]

That definition sucks anyway.

Just go with "has an advantage". 10-0: unbelieveable big advantage that makes it nearly impossible to win.
5-5: even
6:4: one has an advantage, but it's not too big

etc

If one character has an advantage, he should win that MU almost 100 % of the time. I could give it the rating 7:3, because it's a big advantage, but for you it would mean "could still lose the set, even though it's unlikely", even though it is very very much more unlikely than that (unless the player is just much more better).

This is what the -4 to +4 rating is trying to do. It wants to show that it's not a ratio, but imo there are too few options for them... but we all know it might not even help, because people have such big different opinions that some think a MU is +2 and others think it's -1 or w/e. This could make it even more difficult to come together to a ratio...

The problem is, that its much harder to agree on what an advantage is (And how big), than on how often characterX is expected to win against charaY. IMO

Especially since advantage is such an inaccurate term. Advantage what?
The Match Up is easier to play? Easier to win? More/better Options? What exactly does Advantage mean here.
Some people might see something as an advantage, others dont.

I think its much easier to agree on the who-wins-X-games-out-of-10, not saying it there would still be people to disagree with someones opinion on that.


Maybe in the end, its just a personal preferation anyway ^^

 

[infiniteV115]

You're post is the reason I'm doing this. You're not the only one. But yeah, if you come, fun times.

My post? Which post? O.o

 

[8Bitman]

I could actually see myself losing to 8Bit, he probably has more NR exp than I do vs Holy's ROB. I'm actually pretty rusty at that MU

Regardless if I somehow managed to make it to WHOBO5 I'd gladly MM him

-_- Lmfao

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I could actually see myself losing to 8Bit, he probably has more NR exp than I do vs Holy's ROB. I'm actually pretty rusty at that MU

Regardless if I somehow managed to make it to WHOBO5 I'd gladly MM him

Don't worry V, Leafshadow and I will give you all the kinda not terrible ROB main experience you need

 

[8Bitman]

That's fine, no one really knows how to use R.O.B.

 

[Luco]

That's fine, no one really knows how to use R.O.B.

#shotsfired

Can someone please explain to me why DK - Ness is a -3 now?

 

[Seagull Joe]

So I am $10 MMing every IC, Marth, Diddy, Wario and ZSS I find at WHOBO. R.O.B obv the worst.

MM my ?

 

[Z'zgashi]

#shotsfired

Can someone please explain to me why DK - Ness is a -3 now?

Ness is butt

 

[Luco]

Ness is butt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTlBWa6hlEk&t=0m58s

Ummm.... but really? =C

 

[Z'zgashi]

I stand by my statement

 

[Luco]

I stand by my statement

Actually?

I don't think you really mean that though. It's so obviously not an argument for it...

 

[Z'zgashi]

What argument?

 

[Luco]

What argument?

That X character gets bodied by Y character because X character is bad.

 

[Z'zgashi]

K

 

[8Bitman]

MM my ?

Sure, $5?

 

[Nicholas1024]

Can we get a version of the Pikachu matchup chart for people who aren't Esam?

 

[8Bitman]

Can we get a version of the Pikachu matchup chart for people who aren't Esam?

That doesn't make sense. Being bad/good doesn't change a MU...







FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!

 

[Seagull Joe]

Sure, $5?

Fine with me.

 

[Kewkky]

That doesn't make sense. Being bad/good doesn't change a MU...

Yes it does. Me fighting newbies will make every MU against ZSS/Kirby seem like a +4 to the whole cast.

Also, a person who relies a lot on mindgames could be argued to be skewing the MU in his favor due to his player skill being greater than the opponents'. Kind of like ChuDat and Kirby's early days.

 

[Rizen]

Bad players do not represent MUs.
Mind games are required for some characters. It's not skewing a MU it's playing it well

 

[Shaya]

Are mindgames... really mindgames? (In smash)

At the highest level, players are going for guaranteed or near guaranteed "set ups", where any alteration or "mind game" comes from a player mixing up what option they choose for the given situation, although they may/probably had multiple options that would've been successful.

Like, is it really a mindgame where a player is facing backwards in the air and chooses to land into a turn around buffered jab instead of bairing? Nearly every top character is strong from a neutral situation but isn't once they expend their resource... And most top characters' resources are "safe" when used properly.

I don't really see mindgames as a player choosing to wait an extra few frames before doing something. You can "mind game" people by pretending you have a rolling habit or something, but the more reactionary the top brass get (i.e. getting close to super duper ******** 2 frame reaction speed [exaggeration]) the less stuff like that... really means anything at all and it just comes down to player's reaction speeds.