Official: SSBPD unsupported; source code released.

[The Good Doctor]

I think you should focus on actually adding the tournaments sent in. I believe we still have a bunch waiting on approval. (Midwest)

 

[Bones0]

Tournaments that have been sent in are of no consequence. They'll get done, it's just a matter of time. The difference between them being processed this week or next month doesn't really matter in the big picture. We will obviously catch up to old tournaments eventually. What matters is that we have them at all. I will be cranking out several a week once I get my new Xbox and I can just do them in the pre-game lobby for MW3. :D

 

[The Good Doctor]

Tournaments that have been sent in are of no consequence. They'll get done, it's just a matter of time. The difference between them being processed this week or next month doesn't really matter in the big picture. We will obviously catch up to old tournaments eventually. What matters is that we have them at all. I will be cranking out several a week once I get my new Xbox and I can just do them in the pre-game lobby for MW3. :D

Real men play on PC

 

[Bones0]

I hate the keyboard, plus I don't have a PC that can play games, plus people cheat like it's their job on PC, plus everyone on PC is horrible.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Or people are just so good on PC that you think they are cheating

 

[kd-]

^ happens in counter strike a lot.

Having the match linked or imbedded on the match page of the ssbpd site would be awesome, if not for a social aspect but for preserving history.

 

[The Good Doctor]

I hate the keyboard, plus I don't have a PC that can play games, plus people cheat like it's their job on PC, plus everyone on PC is horrible.

That statement is why FPS' on console are a joke.

 

[Bones0]

I've never played a single person cheating on MW3 on XBL. Mouse aiming is also way too easy. If you're playing CS or Quake or something, sure, a mouse is def better. But in MW3 it just makes it easy mode because you can't strafe for ****.

 

[Max?]

Niko's region is NY

 

[baka4moé]

just curious, what is considered a "good" or "above average" rating (and similarly, a bad or below average rating)? and what is considered "close", like 30 point difference, 10 point difference, etc.? i understand that ELO is used for other games as well, and I have no prior experience about how the system works, so i was wondering what a good gauge was.

 

[ThatGuy]

Any chance we could add video links to match histories? Preferably embedded

Also, stuff like this is always awesome to have.

 

[FoxLisk]

Am I wrong in thinking there should be more...pressing goals? The socialization aspect sounds great but there is so much more important things to do..

totally disagreed that socialization sounds great. i have no intention of making this a social site and i'm hesitant to introduce even small amounts of it because i feel it severely blunts the focus.

a) Tie user accounts to their ELO profile. Connect that profile to a smashboards account.
Allow some editable options on their player page.

i'm still not convinced this is a great idea

b) Default to the player's main when no other information is given, but allow for characters to be chosen on a set by set basis. e.g. Display whether M2K used Marth, Sheik, etc. I know this has been suggested before but I still think it is a point of priority

this is already the case

c) Link youtube videos to sets. This can be very, very, very hazardous and tedious so be careful and add safeguards. But it is TOO GOOD a feature to pass up. Its half the reason people got excited for the database in the first place; being able to search for videos of Marth/Sheik with ELOs above 1500 in the last 2 years...now thats an incredible resource.

ah yeah i forgot about this. i still havent come up with or heard a great idea for how to make it reasonably reliable though. any ideas?

d) Allow greater search options. The example search I said in c) should be made available.

hm. i'd be up for building better search features. let's get the discussion going on what filters people are interested in. Sets by character & elo is a good start, what else?

e) Split up the player list. The page is too long right now and is cumbersome to load/scroll through.

split it up how?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I would start from the various Select combinations you can make. tournament placements in X date range for player Y with character Z (any of which can be set to * ) Stuff like that

 

[ThatGuy]

ah yeah i forgot about this. i still havent come up with or heard a great idea for how to make it reasonably reliable though. any ideas?

Would having an 'add video' option (for users) to match history be considered unreliable?

split it up how?

Most intuitive solution is to filter player tags alphabetically: allow the user to select a letter from A-Z, default selection is A (or punctuation/number lol). Will also significantly reduce time spent loading the entire player list.

Loading time for 'Tournament' is also pretty brutal, I guess there's a lot of joins going on there or something. Introducing some filters (Static amount per page, show results from current month/year as opposed to from all time, 'What's New', etc) might help with that as well. Ofc as it stands now the page is a Ctrl-F wet dream, so it's not that bad lol.

 

[Geenareeno]

Yeah I think an 'add video' button would be great. This is going pretty far but if we could have some sort of voting system where if a video gets x amount of positive ratings after x amount of votes it will be linked. A report button would also be necessary.

 

[Gastogh]

An 'Add video' button would be nice. It's a handy thing that just about anyone could contribute to, so it could easily become comprehensive pretty quickly. The only risks, I suppose, are people setting up troll links or videos being taken off the web. Would it help if there were some script that compares the location of the video to a list of respected YT channels or suchlike? A lot of tournies end up being uploaded to the same channels, after all; ajpanton, MeleePacWest, TheWaffle77, etc. The list wouldn't be that huge, and it'd cut down on the potential goatse tomfoolery, if nothing else.

just curious, what is considered a "good" or "above average" rating (and similarly, a bad or below average rating)? and what is considered "close", like 30 point difference, 10 point difference, etc.? i understand that ELO is used for other games as well, and I have no prior experience about how the system works, so i was wondering what a good gauge was.

Right now the average rating is about 1176 (simply from eyeballing the middle of the Players-list when sorted by rating).

Saying what's "close" is harder, particularly since different regions don't play each other enough for the ratings to be 100% reliable (you must've seen Kels in the top 10, etc.). In general, though, the top level players travel more and play a lot, so you can look at the rating differences between them, observe how often they beat each other, form your own initial impression based on that, and then see whether they hold up as you go down the list. There's also the issue of individual matchups; Wobbles beats Axe pretty much every time they play while Axe doesn't do worse than him versus Hungrybox, etc. And what's more, 50 points means more for a 1000-rated player than a 2000-rated one. Elo measures relative dominance, not absolute skill.

Tl, dr: IMO, players within 50 points of each other are still pretty close to each other. Individual matchups aside, to me things stop feeling like coin flips when the rating difference is around 100.

 

[baka4moé]

^ ok thanks that makes sense. so is like 1200 "poor"ish, while 1600 is like "good"?

also another quick name change i noticed, "W.A.S.T.E." from GREV XIII is the same as "Jesse" from Winter Game Fest VI and "WASTED" in Winter Gamefest 2012

same with Sunny from GREV XIII, he's "Sunny Day" in WGF 2012 and WGF VI

 

[FoxLisk]

^ thanks dude, im glad someone thought it was a good idea.

I'm fairly sure my ideas fall on deaf ears tho, I PM'd or Skyped FoxLisk a few weeks ago saying that, as a user, the feature I want the most is an advanced search, and he didn't even respond. I'm really not sure what the problem is, I present my ideas in a fairly clear fashion, with a positive tone, thoroughly give examples and can show how it would work at every step. I'm starting to believe its not any fault of my own, but rather the creators feel threatened by my ideas (which I don't understand... aren't I a member of the project???)

hey, i don't really remember that, but i'm sorry that i didn't respond to the idea of advanced search. i know it's a good idea, i just haven't had time to figure out how to do it right and it slipped my mind the couple times ive had some free time to work on the site. as for the upload validation form, i remain totally opposed and i think youre just gonna have to deal with that one. When I think someone's proposition is a bad idea, it's just because I think it's a bad idea, by the way, not because I feel threatened.

About adding video links:

If I let just anyone add a video link to a set, then one set could have multiple links, which is confusing*. Or else I don't allow links past the first one, which doesn't really make sense because it just means the first person to add a wrong link (whether on purpose or simply by mistake) messes it up for everyone until we find it and clean it up. Adding a voting system for anything sounds horrible and out of place, especially since video links aren't a popularity contest.

My intuition last time I considered it was to allow anyone to add a link to a video, but only allow the first one, and then allow people to flag the link as wrong. videos are so much harder to inspect quickly than players, though, i wonder if that will end up getting enough eyes on it.

If anyone has a better idea, or a really convincing explanation of why allowing both positive and negative votes makes sense, i'd love to hear it.

*I understand that some sets would be nice to have both video capture & audience cams for. That's even harder to get right :\

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I'm fine with you thinking its a bad idea. I made that post and then you never responded so it was kinda in limbo...


i don't really care if you agree with my ideas or not, just as long as you let me know you're hearing me. I just brainstorm and throw out ideas; usually I think they are good at the time, but down the line I may disagree.


for the video thing, there should be multiple videos allowed: many sets are uploaded as individual games (especially old sets; new standard is together). To deal with wrongly added videos, a flag system can be added ("Does this video not match this set? Click here!") or make the videos go through admins before being seen on the page. (I see you suggested the flag system too )

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

Bug report coming up:

Epita Smash Arena 5's Bracket shows Armada and Ice playing 2 GF matches, eventhough Ice came from the Losers Bracket and Armada is listed as beating him bost times. Dont know if all brackets are like that or if that is the only one. (have checked 2 other tourneys and it seems like all brackets are like that (2 GF sets))
and haha, this one is just wrong: http://www.ssbpd.com/tournament/Do the Impossible
are brackets not yet fully functional? i thought they were

also: I still cannot view the Germany-Region, guess you didnt get around to fix it yet.

as always, love your work, keep it going!

 

[Bones0]

I don't see what's wrong with just allowing people to link videos to sets that are currently video-less (assuming they have registered an account). If it's just a matter of copying and pasting the URL of the video to an entry box on the site, it's fairly fool-proof, and I think the community is mature enough to be able to handle that. As long as users don't have the ability to overwrite previous URLs, nothing can really be lost. Worst case scenario an unrelated video gets linked. *shrug* Then you just have a flagging system the same as characters/regions to let mods know when they need to sort something out. If only linking to the first game seems insufficient, you could have a drop down when a user recommends a link. They choose from the drop down "Full Set", "Game 1", "Game 2"... "Game 7" etc. You could also include "Part 1", "Part 2", and "Part 3" for sets that are uploaded with multiple games on a single video, but the set is too long for one video. Depending on what drop down is selected, you could have the video links display differently. If they chose "Full Set" then the link will just display with the normal set name. If they selected Game 1, then below the set name it will display "Game 1" with the hyperlink. Same with "Part 1."

 

[FoxLisk]

Oh **** I forgot people used to upload sets as multiple vids haha. Okay. Definitely have to allow multiple links then, and since everyone seems to agree that letting anyone add links and just allowing flagging is good enough we can go with that.

@sveet sorry that I appear to miss your posts/not respond to them a lot. I promise it's not intentional.

 

[rokimomi]

Small idea to make video adding a tad more convenient on the user end.

How about when you log in, you see a video added button, and upon clicking it, you get transported to a page (or something can show up right there using some fancy ajax or something) that uses a youtube api search on the matchup you just clicked on. So say I clicked on Amsah, and I see:

"Win over Jeapie - 1716 at Ace Smash 3 (Match History) - 04/09/2011"

You use a mix of those search terms (Amsah+Jeapie+TourneyName+bracketRound) and you return a suggestions list of perhaps the top 5 videos from that search query with some checkboxes next to them. In this case, "amsah jeapie ace smash 3 grand finals" has the three vids of the set as the first three videos. So a user can then just click on the "suggest" checkboxes and click confirm to suggest those videos.

And then add basic flagging or w/e on top of all that.

Dunno how your user database looks, but perhaps to avoid some dude going in and adding rick roll to everything, you could have some count of how many flagged videos a user has suggested.

Seems decently time consuming but it might pay off quickly over time.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

I think allowing raw URLs is super dangerous but the best solution for now.

As the site gets bigger, and we start showing it to people outside the community, there will obviously have to be restrictions. But for now, that would probably only hamper efficacy; as we upload more and more old tournaments, we want to quickest and most painless way to update their youtube links. Once we move to the stage of having more new tournament uploads than old ones, then maybe having a more restricting linking system would be beneficial.

Small idea to make video adding a tad more convenient on the user end.

How about when you log in, you see a video added button, and upon clicking it, you get transported to a page (or something can show up right there using some fancy ajax or something) that uses a youtube api search on the matchup you just clicked on. So say I clicked on Amsah, and I see:

"Win over Jeapie - 1716 at Ace Smash 3 (Match History) - 04/09/2011"

You use a mix of those search terms (Amsah+Jeapie+TourneyName+bracketRound) and you return a suggestions list of perhaps the top 5 videos from that search query with some checkboxes next to them. In this case, "amsah jeapie ace smash 3 grand finals" has the three vids of the set as the first three videos. So a user can then just click on the "suggest" checkboxes and click confirm to suggest those videos.

And then add basic flagging or w/e on top of all that.

Dunno how your user database looks, but perhaps to avoid some dude going in and adding rick roll to everything, you could have some count of how many flagged videos a user has suggested.

Seems decently time consuming but it might pay off quickly over time.

This seems really hard to implement but an awesome suggestion nonetheless.

 

[LLDL]

Well a mod would have to approve the link before having it added right, so if it were malicious it wouldn't get approved

 

[Bones0]

There will be too many videos being added for us to be able to check all of them. It's also pointless because no one is going to bother linking "troll" vids on an obscure ranking website.

 

[Gastogh]

^ ok thanks that makes sense. so is like 1200 "poor"ish, while 1600 is like "good"?

Well, 1200 is still above average, so "poorish" might not be entirely fair. 1600 is definitely a cut above simply "good", though. Right now there are 3,5 pages of 1600+ players and the total list of players is 241 pages long, so 1600 gets you comfily into the top 2% in the world.

I noticed you at 1550 there, as it happens. Good ****.

 

[rokimomi]

There will be too many videos being added for us to be able to check all of them. It's also pointless because no one is going to bother linking "troll" vids on an obscure ranking website.

You underestimate the boredom of trolls

I agree that there will be too many vids to hand check though, which I why i think a reputation per user system would alleviate some of those problems. No Idea what metrics to use though.

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

I see it this way
1300-1399= You know what you're doing
1400-1499= Got potential
1500-1599= You are good, but could use a little more experience
1600-1699= Excellent player
1700+ Pro
1900+ Elite

This is assuming you have enough data to make your elo accurate. ~75 or more rated matches.

 

[Mahone]

I think you should just have VIDEO MASTERS that are in charge of adding links

I bet I could add every ****ing video to every set you have in like 1 weekend

Also, i could just make an email or people could pm me (or other VIDEO MASTERS) to help

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

It would take too much time and require permanent admins. Also, as the site grows, it would require require more admins to maintain. It would be better to use the community to put in information whenever possible, and also have the community mark whether the information is valid or not.

 

[The Star King]

It's also pointless because no one is going to bother linking "troll" vids on an obscure ranking website.

You must be new here.

 

[Bones0]

Obviously YOU haven't read through the thread in my sig.

 

[ThatGuy]

Oh **** I forgot people used to upload sets as multiple vids haha. Okay. Definitely have to allow multiple links then, and since everyone seems to agree that letting anyone add links and just allowing flagging is good enough we can go with that.

@sveet sorry that I appear to miss your posts/not respond to them a lot. I promise it's not intentional.

I just want to make 1 more suggestion related to this. When you are on a page that links to a 'Match History', display an image for whether there are videos within that match history. So for example:

On Hungrybox's page:
Win over Eggm - 1693 at No Johns 3/3/2012 (Match History) - 03/03/2012
Win over Hax - 1780 at No Johns 3/3/2012 (Match History) - 03/03/2012 :>:
Win over KevM - 1255 at No Johns 3/3/2012 (Match History) - 03/03/2012

Where :>: indicates that the set was recorded and that the videos are viewable within the Match History. I mean, it doesn't have to exactly be placed like that, but a heads up like that is a really convenient feature to have.

 

[The Star King]

Obviously YOU haven't read through the thread in my sig.

I have.

 

[FoxLisk]

hey guys. sets can now be given videos, and wrong characters on a per-set basis can finally be flagged.

Video links cannot be flagged yet but I'll probably make that possible today.

I was kinda drunk when I wrote most of this last night so let me know if any of it is totally ****ed.

 

[rokimomi]

Is it possible to see what place in bracket the match is when you view a person's match list, to suggest the right set for when players meet twice a tourney.

 

[LLDL]

Testing now.

 

[Bones0]

Good shiz, mayne.

 

[Gastogh]

There's some problem with video linking. I'm getting a "Please enter a complete url." even though the url of the video should've been just fine.