[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[kainsword]

Yeah, I thought the evolutions were pushing it somewhat. I would rather favor additional hats for those Pokemon instead.

 

[Spire]

I'd rather see alternate color skin for the Pokemon rather than accessories. They did so with Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon and Lucario, but Pikachu and Jiggs just get headgear, which I'm not a fan of.


Jack Burton for SSB4.

 

[SirKibble]

I agree with Spire on the Pokemon thing. Pika and Jiggs got the shaft. They could have recolored them like they did with the new additions. Most of the headgear things aren't that great anyway. The only good one, IMO, was in Melee, when Jiggs had the green headband o' awesomeness. Lol. Oh, and Pichu's boy scout outfit was pretty cool.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I think the headgear makes Pikachu and Jigglypuff rather special. They're supposed to be cute mascots. All of PT's weirdly-colored Pokemon look a little strange to me.

 

[GI Josh]

There should be more villians like King K Rool for example. Waluigi shoud be in it as well as Daisy. Knuclckes and Shadow ar ea obvious, and megaman would be epic.

The reason waluigi and daisy were not in brawl was because they don't have their own games, their just dumb extras that really only appear in party games.

 

[metaXzero]

I've already said it, but I'd love to have the ability to customize the appearances of the characters (like Virtual Fighter).

 

[Banjodorf]

Yeah! Love the "Unlockable Alternate Costume" idea.

King and Kaptain K. Rool ftw.

 

[OmegaXXII]

The reason waluigi and daisy were not in brawl was because they don't have their own games, their just dumb extras that really only appear in party games.

Exactly!, which is why we should NEVER, EVER have Waluigi as a playable character in SSB4

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

What worlds/areas would you all like to be visitable in a Smash Bros.-like game, with 3D 'adventurous' game play.?

of course mushroom kingdom in some form. mabye an inside peach's castle stage, that would be cool. Like mabye you go from peach's castle and move through mushroom kingdom, then go to bowsers castle.

 

[mantlecore77]

and mantlecore77, ok! also remember my idea for whisy woods I mentioned a few pages back/ Or was that someone else who commented on it..

Heh, I don't remember if I said something about your Whispy Woods. I remember reading it though.

Yeah! Love the "Unlockable Alternate Costume" idea.

King and Kaptain K. Rool ftw.

Same here. I believe that ultimately, if SSB4 does offer something like this, the Doc will return... hopefully it wouldn't disappoint should it happen that way.

Okay, Luvtoy, here goes.
3D field mode, where Smashers can walk around like an adventure game (like LOZ:OoT) and Smash other folks.

First Map: Princess Peach's Castle Courtyard
As seen in Super Mario 64 and Mario Kart 64, Mushroom Kingdom's castle has a very large and spacy field perfect for any sort of battle. Trees are random but somewhat few, and there are paths that twist and turn all over the place. The borderline would be the courtyard's exits. Also, instead of being limited to the tedious field, you could Smash your opponent into the Castle! (Similar to other fighting games where you can knock your opponent onto different stages, like ClayFighters 63 1/3)

Second Map: Death Mountain
Although Hyrule Field would probably be the most appropriate when it comes to a reprenting stage for a universe, I found that it would probably be a tad boring. So, Death Mountain, a lava-filled seemingly dormant volcano would be a better, more exciting adventure mode area.
But instead of being stuck in the midst of dozens of puzzles that Link would have to solve, you're simply in the "boss" room, the magnetic circular area. But surrounding this room are four exits: one to the small canyon with spring water under it, one a hot room full of little islands over a lava pond (which would really test aerial game), one to an extremely spacy stage with random fire geysers, and the last one would lead right outside to the canyon-side cliff of Death Mountain.
The cliff would be interesting. Instead of having to "kill" your opponent's HP, you could go Bond-Travelyn style by beating them off the edge to certain... KO.

Third Map: Jungle Japes!
Yes, the Kong stage. You would start off at the base of DK's treehouse as seen in Donkey Kong 64. The whole area would be a free-for-all battle to the death, with a small pond, Cranky's cabin (in 64, lab) and a few trees to hinder yourself from oncoming attacks.
The Banana Hoard would not be off limits, either. This map would probably be more of a wild goose chase scene...

Luvtoy, I'm getting a sudden feeling that these stages aren't what you asked for. Am I going in the right direction?
Like, the 3D adventure mode you suggested, are you talking about a "story" mode in which certain Smashers have to do their own little adventure, making each character unique, or are you talking about adventure stages that would be good for 3D Smash in general?

 

[mantlecore77]

of course mushroom kingdom in some form. mabye an inside peach's castle stage, that would be cool. Like mabye you go from peach's castle and move through mushroom kingdom, then go to bowsers castle.

Brilliant. I like the Bowser-Peach castle link idea!

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

yeah i figured mario does it so many times, so why not have it in smash.

Another idea for a 3-D level would be the inside of the Great Fox. I always wondered what was inside that thing. Mabye you start out as falco or Fox in the arwing hanger, and have to make it up to the bridge. Or something like that.

 

[Big-Cat]

The reason waluigi and daisy were not in brawl was because they don't have their own games, their just dumb extras that really only appear in party games.

Actually, Daisy has Super Mario Land to an extent so Waluigi is the only one. Anyway, Daisy and Rosalina should be playable alts (not like Daisy has been thouhgh) for Peach.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Exactly!, which is why we should NEVER, EVER have Waluigi as a playable character in SSB4

Thank you Gigakoopa! Waluigi is stupid! Daisy should stay an alternate to peach forever as well. I loved the idea of unlockable costumes. I vote Amaterasu, Megaman, Sothe, Soren, Knuckles, and some other people should be in.


And with the upcoming release of Sonic and the Black Knight in 2009, will sonic have a sword in Smash 4?

 

[SirKibble]

The Daisy alternate for Peach should actually be Daisy, though... Not just a cheap Peach makeover. Make her Daisy. I think she's deserving of that.

 

[mantlecore77]

Actually, Daisy has Super Mario Land to an extent so Waluigi is the only one. Anyway, Daisy and Rosalina should be playable alts (not like Daisy has been thouhgh) for Peach.

The Daisy alternate for Peach should actually be Daisy, though... Not just a cheap Peach makeover. Make her Daisy. I think she's deserving of that.

Combining your two ideas, I've come up with this idea...

Unlockable costumes. We've discussed this.
When you alternate the costume to the NEW unlocked costume, i.e. Peach's green dress to Daisy, the big man voice says "Daisy!" like he is introducing a new Smasher.
This could be applied to Rosalina, Dr. Mario, Pichu/Raichu I don't care, but it would be a swell idea to incorporate well-liked characters that are BOUND to be clones anyways.

 

[Big-Cat]

The Daisy alternate for Peach should actually be Daisy, though... Not just a cheap Peach makeover. Make her Daisy. I think she's deserving of that.

This is something that needs to be done not only for Peach but for other characters. By doing this, we can potentially double the roster and avoid the clone issue.

Here's an example on how this can work:

A lot of people have wanted Paula, Poo, Ninten, and Kumatora to be playable one day. By making the first three and Ana alt. models for Ness, and making Kumatora an alt. for Lucas, everyone wins and you don't increase the proportion that the MOTHER series gets on the roster (screen wise).

These characters need to have their own name, not saying the name of the character one is an alt. of. They also need their own cheers, voice, and maybe taunts and victories.

I'm not sure on this, but wouldn't these characters take a lot less time than making a clone? All you do is make a model that's proportional to the character it's alt. of (a height difference can affect the quality of the character) and copy+paste the coding of the original onto the alt. Of course, there are some minor cosmetic alterations (like Daisy has flowers, not hearts) that don't affect hitboxes, but there are no stats differences whatsoever.

 

[Steelia]

On the topic of alternate costumes and whatnot... In SSB4, the Pokemon being added as contenders should get their SHINY colorings. I don't know why Sakurai didn't do that in Brawl. Really, the only Pokemon to have a shiny costume was Mewtwo back in Melee (both the peach-colored and lime-colored skins; peach-colored for what he looked like in Pokemon Stadium/Colosseum; lime-colored from the handheld games and Pokemon Battle Revolution).

If Doctor Mario isn't put under his own faction or made playable in SSB4, he should definitely be an alternate costume for Mario. That could totally happen.
Luigi could pull off Mr. L, even if Mr. L is for Paper Luigi.
Bowser? Could try Dry Bowser.
Peach and Daisy... That's still ongoing, though it's just Peach with a tan wearing Daisy's clothing. She should at least have a facial overhaul... or something. Peach could even pull a Rosalina... or a Shadow Peach/Shadow Queen appearance.

Wario's fine. He got his alternate.

Yoshi should have his Paper Mario: Thousand-Year Door look as the baby Yoshi. Or even Boshi (if that's worth getting).

Donkey Kong... Eh. Perhaps wearing Funky Kong's shades?
Diddy Kong... I'm not too sure on him.
If King K. Rool makes it in, his Kaptain K. Rool outfit would be awesome. His Franken K. Roolenstein one... Optional.
If Dixie makes it... Not too sure about her. Perhaps a Tiny Kong kind of appearance?

Link should get either his old-school Link getup going (what Toon Link has for a skin) or his Ocarina of Time look, just as...
Zelda/Sheik get their Ocarina of Time looks in Brawl.
Ganondorf... Ocarina of Time look as well?
Toon Link... His old-school Link coloring was pretty clever. Perhaps his Outset Island clothing from the beginning of Wind Waker?
And if Midna were to somehow make it playable... I'm not too sure what she'd pull off, if anything.
Toon Zelda/Tetra... Perhaps Twilight Princess-themed looks, if these two made it in?

Samus... could easily have a Dark Samus-themed outfit.
Zero Suit Samus... I'm not too sure of.

Pit... is fine.

The Ice Climbers are fine, from what I see.

R.O.B.... Heh... Sure.

Kirby... Not sure about him. If one were to give him an alternate costume, it'd only be taken aback by a character's copied ability, so there's really no point. (Unless you give him Meta Knight's coloring.)
Meta Knight... What someone posted previously as a samurai look. That's pretty cool.
King Dedede... Same as Meta Knight. "Quick Draw" look'd be pretty neat.

Olimar... could pull a Louie. (Perhaps not in looks, but in overall costume and style.)

Fox could wear his dad's shades (James McCloud).
Falco... I'm not too sure of.
Wolf... Not too sure of, either. Perhaps his "upgraded" look from Star Fox 64 when you battle him on Venom-turned-modern?
If Krystal were to get in... Not sure on her.

Captain Falcon... has Blood Falcon.

I already mentioned the Pokemon. They'd have their shiny outfits.
Pikachu, shiny, with perhaps a bit more Pichu-related outfits?
Jigglypuff... Shiny.
Lucario... Shiny.
Mewtwo, if/when he makes it into SSB4... shiny, with his metal suit from the first movie as an alternate costume.
Pokemon Trainer... would have Pokemon Trainer Girl (AKA Green, or Blue if you prefer the Japanese). Her Pokemon would be as such: Squirtle could pull a Squirtle Squad appearance with the head leader Squirtle's shades, Ivysaur could have two heart-shaped things on its forehead (much how May from the Pokemon anime's Bulbasaur had heart-shaped figures on its forehead), and Charizard... could have a bow on the back of its head, like the one from Charicific Valley or wherever it was in the anime.

Marth... Not sure.
Ike... Not sure.
If Roy were to return... Not sure.
If someone like Lyn were to be added... Not sure.
Actually, Fire Emblem as a whole I'm clueless about.

Ness... could pull a Ninten, perhaps?
Lucas already has Claus. And even...
If Claus were to be playable, perhaps he could pull a Lucas as well?
A bit shaky on other EarthBound/MOTHER characters, though I am personally pulling for Giygas (from EarthBound Zero/MOTHER). Pipe dream, yes. Possible, yes.

Mr. Game & Watch... Not too sure on him. He COULD wear a chef hat or the like, though.

Snake... could pull an Old Snake (even if Old Snake did appear on a non-Nintendo-based-console game).

Sonic... could pull off Shadow, Silver, Metal Sonic, even Amy colors!

If someone like Mega Man were to be in... he could pull of being Mega Man X, or perhaps Mega Man Trigger.
And Geno... I wouldn't know what to do with him, either.

...That's all I've got here.

 

[ChronoBound]

Thank you Gigakoopa! Waluigi is stupid! Daisy should stay an alternate to peach forever as well. I loved the idea of unlockable costumes. I vote Amaterasu, Megaman, Sothe, Soren, Knuckles, and some other people should be in.


And with the upcoming release of Sonic and the Black Knight in 2009, will sonic have a sword in Smash 4?

No. Frankly, I would be more worried about Sonic being in Smash 4 at all considering how much the Japanese Smash community disliked him prior to release (they probably dislike him more that he is low tier and after discovering how uninspired his moveset is). Such is the tyranny of tiers...

 

[SmashChu]

This is something that needs to be done not only for Peach but for other characters. By doing this, we can potentially double the roster and avoid the clone issue.

Here's an example on how this can work:

A lot of people have wanted Paula, Poo, Ninten, and Kumatora to be playable one day. By making the first three and Ana alt. models for Ness, and making Kumatora an alt. for Lucas, everyone wins and you don't increase the proportion that the MOTHER series gets on the roster (screen wise).

These characters need to have their own name, not saying the name of the character one is an alt. of. They also need their own cheers, voice, and maybe taunts and victories.

I'm not sure on this, but wouldn't these characters take a lot less time than making a clone? All you do is make a model that's proportional to the character it's alt. of (a height difference can affect the quality of the character) and copy+paste the coding of the original onto the alt. Of course, there are some minor cosmetic alterations (like Daisy has flowers, not hearts) that don't affect hitboxes, but there are no stats differences whatsoever.

So many problems with that I don't know where to start

First, there is a time and a place. We don't need to have the costume change the character, that is ********. Tell me a fighting game where the characters absolutely changes with a costume swap. It just, changes the costume. Thus, the point of a costume switch. Smash has always been modest about this (which is another point I'm about to get to). If you change Lucas to Kamurota(think that's the spelling) then the characters changes, and not just the direct stats. Naturally, the characters size changes as well.

The other reason is the modestly of it. The player needs to be able to tell what character he/she is using, as well as who everyone else is using. If you start cramming every look a like into the game, then it gets confusing. Especially when the announcer is saying Daisy yet it's still Peach. This is a fatal flaw as it shows the player we have lots of characters but half of them are the same

Lastly, no one wants these characters. The majority of fans are much happier with Ness and Lucas then they are with Paula or Kamutora. These characters are not highly requested, thus why they are not in the game. Ness and Lucas are more important and more requested, thus having the moves of another character. The fans don't want these characters, and they will add nothing new, so why buff the roster with them?

 

[Steelia]

Lastly, no one wants these characters. The majority of fans are much happier with Ness and Lucas then they are with Paula or Kamutora. These characters are not highly requested, thus why they are not in the game. Ness and Lucas are more important and more requested, thus having the moves of another character. The fans don't want these characters, and they will add nothing new, so why buff the roster with them?

For the sake of Paula and Kumatora, and other EarthBound/MOTHER reps, I must do this...

But the Japanese character suggestions list would like to have a word with you.

Koopa Troopa (Super Mario Bros. - 1985)
Hammer Bros. (Super Mario Bros. - 1985)
Toad (Super Mario Bros. 2 - 1988)
Petey Piranha (Super Mario Sunshine - 2002)
Vivian (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door - 2005)
"Cel-Shaded" Link (The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker - 2002)
Tetra (The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker - 2002)
Link's Uncle (The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past - 1991)
Ganon/Ganondorf (The Legend of Zelda/The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - 1986/1998)
Bow Wow the Chain Chomp (The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening DX - 1998)
Ridley (Metroid - 1986)
Sylux (Metroid Prime: Hunters - 2006)
Noxus (Metroid Prime: Hunters - 2006)
Weavel (Metroid Prime: Hunters - 2006)
Peppy Hare (Star Fox - 1993)
Slippy Toad (Star Fox - 1993)
Krystal (Star Fox Adventures - 2002)
Wolf O'Donnell (Star Fox 64 - 1997)
Diddy Kong (solo) (Donkey Kong Country - 1994)
Diddy Kong & Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong Country/Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy Kong's Quest - 1994/1995)
King K. Rool (Donkey Kong Country - 1994)
Ninten (Mother - 1989)
Paula (Mother 2 [EarthBound in the U.S.] - 1994 [1995])
Jeff (Mother 2 [EarthBound in the U.S.] - 1994 [1995])
Poo (Mother 2 [EarthBound in the U.S.] - 1994 [1995])
Claus (Mother 3 - 2006)
Lucas (Mother 3 - 2006)
Princess Kumatora (Mother 3 - 2006)
King Dedede (Kirby's Dreamland - 1992)
Lololo & Lalala (Kirby's Dreamland - 1992)
Marx (Kirby Super Star - 1996)
Jeigan (Fire Emblem: Ankoku Ryuu to Hikari no Tsurugi - 1990)
Oguma (Fire Emblem: Ankoku Ryuu to Hikari no Tsurugi - 1990)
Nabarl (Fire Emblem: Ankoku Ryuu to Hikari no Tsurugi - 1990)
Sheeda (Fire Emblem: Ankoku Ryuu to Hikari no Tsurugi - 1990)
Maji (Fire Emblem: Ankoku Ryuu to Hikari no Tsurugi - 1990)
Saji (Fire Emblem: Ankoku Ryuu to Hikari no Tsurugi - 1990)
Sigurd (Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu - 1996)
Ike (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance - 2005)
Soren (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance - 2005)
Mia (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance - 2005)
The Black Knight (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance - 2005)
Gardevoir (Pokémon Ruby & Pokémon Sapphire - 2003)
Steven Stone (Pokémon Ruby & Pokémon Sapphire - 2003)
Black Shadow (F-Zero X - 1998)
Palutena (Kid Icarus - 1986)
Medusa (Kid Icarus - 1986)
Eggplant Wizard (Kid Icarus - 1986)
Isaac (Golden Sun - 2001)
Felix (Golden Sun - 2001)
Little Mac (Punch-Out!! Featuring Mr. Dream - 1990)
Dragon Chan (Super Punch-Out!! - 1994)
Banker (Mario Paint - 1992)
Ray 01 (Custom Robo - 2004)
Captain Olimar (Pikmin - 2001)
Human Main Character (Animal Forest - 2001)
Tom Nook (Animal Forest - 2001)
Chibi-Robo (Chibi-Robo! - 2005)
Harry the Robot (Teleroboxer - 1995)
Doctor Wright (SimCity - 1991)**
Muddy (Mole Mania - 1996)
The Blue Virus (Dr. Mario - 1990)
Urban Fighters (Urban Champion - 1984)
Lip (Panel de Pon - 1995)
Furil (Nintendo Puzzle Collection: Panel de Pon - 2003)
Takamaru (Nazo no Murasamejou - 1986)
Demiru (Tomato Adventure - 2002)
Tomato Robot (Tomato Adventure - 2002)
Sukapon (Joy Mech Fight - 1993)
Donbe (Shin Oni ga Shima - 1987)
Ayumi Tachibana (Famicom Tantei Club Part II: Ushiro ni Tatsu Shoujo - 1989)*
Jill (Screw Breaker [Drill Dozer in the U.S.] - 2005 [2006])
Ippongi Ryuta of Cheer Squad (Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan - 2005)
Hero/Heroine (Magical Vacation - 2001)
Professor Kawashima (Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day - 2006)
Master Hand (Super Smash Bros. - 1999)
Crazy Hand (Super Smash Bros. Melee - 2001)
#166 Golden Sun characters and/or Advance Wars infantrymen
#218 Famicom Tantei Club characters

Third Party Suggestions

Mega Man (Capcom) (Mega Man - 1987)
G-Red (Capcom) (Gotcha Force - 2003)
Simon Belmont (Konami) (Castlevania - 1986)
Power Pro-Kun (Konami) (Jikkyou Powerful Pro Yakyuu '94 - 1994)
Lupus (Rare) (Jet Force Gemini - 1999)
Geno (Square Enix, Inc.) (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars - 1996)
Mallow (Square Enix, Inc.) (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars - 1996)
Sora (Disney/Square Enix, Inc.) (Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories - 2004)
Magnus Gallant (Quest/Nintendo) (Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber - 2000)
Princess Katia (From Software) (Lost Kingdoms - 2002)
Kalas (tri-Crescendo/Monolith Soft) (Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean - 2003)
Thomas the Kung-Fu Master (Irem) (Spartan X [Kung-Fu in the U.S.] - 1985)

~Now, I don't know about you... but I see both Paula AND Princess Kumatora as wanted characters, even if they were only mentioned/voted for once or twice. That's still more than most characters people wanted to see that aren't on this listing.

Now, I agree that having them as alternate costumes wouldn't really work... but saying no one would want them... I wouldn't go so far.

Just had to defend those two. Please pardon the length of this.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Thank you Gigakoopa! Waluigi is stupid! Daisy should stay an alternate to peach forever as well. I loved the idea of unlockable costumes. I vote Amaterasu, Megaman, Sothe, Soren, Knuckles, and some other people should be in.


And with the upcoming release of Sonic and the Black Knight in 2009, will sonic have a sword in Smash 4?

well it's good to see another Waluigi hater, anyway I am thinking Sonic could indeed have a possible sword, but this would mean he'd have to get a new moveset which I doubt he will get, and since he's 3rd party his chances aren't looking so good, but we can only hope.

 

[Veggi]

No. Frankly, I would be more worried about Sonic being in Smash 4 at all considering how much the Japanese Smash community disliked him prior to release (they probably dislike him more that he is low tier and after discovering how uninspired his moveset is). Such is the tyranny of tiers...

I actually liked his moveset a lot, I don't like him much as a character, but he had one of my favorite movesets. The only thing I would change is make his side-b and down-b more different than eachother. Maybe get rid of his spring recovery and replace it with his homing attack, however he would be much better overall to make up for his worse recovery.

 

[ChronoBound]

So many problems with that I don't know where to start

First, there is a time and a place. We don't need to have the costume change the character, that is ********. Tell me a fighting game where the characters absolutely changes with a costume swap. It just, changes the costume. Thus, the point of a costume switch. Smash has always been modest about this (which is another point I'm about to get to). If you change Lucas to Kamurota(think that's the spelling) then the characters changes, and not just the direct stats. Naturally, the characters size changes as well.

The other reason is the modestly of it. The player needs to be able to tell what character he/she is using, as well as who everyone else is using. If you start cramming every look a like into the game, then it gets confusing. Especially when the announcer is saying Daisy yet it's still Peach. This is a fatal flaw as it shows the player we have lots of characters but half of them are the same

Lastly, no one wants these characters. The majority of fans are much happier with Ness and Lucas then they are with Paula or Kamutora. These characters are not highly requested, thus why they are not in the game. Ness and Lucas are more important and more requested, thus having the moves of another character. The fans don't want these characters, and they will add nothing new, so why buff the roster with them?

I agree SmashChu. I think only fairly important characters (with limited potential for a unique moveset) should become costumes. I think the amount should be 8 at most, not over 20 like a lot of people seem to be suggesting.

 

[SmashChu]

For the sake of Paula and Kumatora, and other EarthBound/MOTHER reps, I must do this...

But the Japanese character suggestions list would like to have a word with you.

~Now, I don't know about you... but I see both Paula AND Princess Kumatora as wanted characters, even if they were only mentioned/voted for once or twice. That's still more than most characters people wanted to see that aren't on this listing.

Now, I agree that having them as alternate costumes wouldn't really work... but saying no one would want them... I wouldn't go so far.

1)That only means they were requested at least once
2)Look how long the list is. It's another "face in the crowd" thing.

Not trying to crush your dreams or anything though. Just pointing it out.

I agree SmashChu. I think only fairly important characters (with limited potential for a unique moveset) should become costumes. I think the amount should be 8 at most, not over 20 like a lot of people seem to be suggesting.

Again, it falls into the same trap. For Wario, it made sence. You can tell the two characters apart, and it isn't another person. Just a different set of cloths (which is what a costume is). Krystal could have an Adventure and Assault becuase it two different outfits but makes sence. K Rool can become Kaptain K. Rool becuase it's the same person with no confusion. Heck, Mario could even be Dr. Mario as the characters are the same person (although the fireballs would have to stay the same).

See what I'm getting at? If the character is "important" enough to be a costume, then they could probably be playable.

 

[Big-Cat]

So many problems with that I don't know where to start

First, there is a time and a place. We don't need to have the costume change the character, that is ********. Tell me a fighting game where the characters absolutely changes with a costume swap. It just, changes the costume. Thus, the point of a costume switch. Smash has always been modest about this (which is another point I'm about to get to). If you change Lucas to Kamurota(think that's the spelling) then the characters changes, and not just the direct stats. Naturally, the characters size changes as well.

How the heck is the costume changing the character ********? Besides, if you've noticed, I call those kinds of costumes alt. models which is technically a different thing.

I can tell you right now, though, one series that does that: Tekken. In Tekken 4, for example, Eddy Gordo is an alt. model fot Christie and fights exactly like her. Also, Xiayou had a friend named Miharu who was an alt. for her.

For the most part, Smash hasn't been modest about it, just lazy. Also, it's Kumatora, and the point of alt. model is to have identical stats and size so that's a moot point.

The other reason is the modestly of it. The player needs to be able to tell what character he/she is using, as well as who everyone else is using. If you start cramming every look a like into the game, then it gets confusing. Especially when the announcer is saying Daisy yet it's still Peach. This is a fatal flaw as it shows the player we have lots of characters but half of them are the same

Are you saying that people are too stupid to realize what character they're using? Since lookalikes are would usually be an alt. for the original character, it's safe to assumethat people won't get that confused. Besides, like I said in my definition for alt. models, the characters look exactly like the character supposed to be. In other words, Daisy looks like Daisy, sounds like Daisy, talks like Daisy, but only fights like Peach.

I personally don't think it's a flaw since these character exist underneath the character they're an alt. of. In the end, the roster's appearance will still be diverse.

Lastly, no one wants these characters. The majority of fans are much happier with Ness and Lucas then they are with Paula or Kamutora. These characters are not highly requested, thus why they are not in the game. Ness and Lucas are more important and more requested, thus having the moves of another character. The fans don't want these characters, and they will add nothing new, so why buff the roster with them?

People do want these characters. Go to starmen.net and some other sites and you'll see that people have been wanting these characters in since it was possible. They're not in the game for two reasons:

1. The MOTHER series can really only have one more charcter that isn't an alt. added to the roster - Claus.
2. They're moves were taken by Ness and Lucas because the developers couldn't think of a faithful moveset (which is blatant BS).

Anyway, of course they won't add anything new, they're alt. characters, not clones.

 

[Pikaville]

I just wanna smash game that is like 70% melee and 30% brawl(it has some cool new stuff in it to be fair)

Melee just feels nicer to play all round.

Improved online

better stage builder

may be an RPG mode

as complicated/impossible as it might get a character creater

The black knight,Toad,Ridley,Deku,Zora and Goron link(would work like PT)Robotnik,Liquid snake and Shadow as alt costumes at least,Boo,Megaman,Kamek I could go on and on.

More inventive or unique characters(also just lots more characters)1 or 2 more 3rd partys couldnt hurt either.(As stated above)

DLC Im very surprized that there will be no DLC for brawl like new stages and characters.If there is a SSB4 it needs DLC.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The Daisy alternate for Peach should actually be Daisy, though... Not just a cheap Peach makeover. Make her Daisy. I think she's deserving of that.

Problem is, Daisy's moveset would probably be too similar to Peach's moveset. Personally, I find it best for her to be just a color swap instead of a separate character.

Combining your two ideas, I've come up with this idea...

Unlockable costumes. We've discussed this.
When you alternate the costume to the NEW unlocked costume, i.e. Peach's green dress to Daisy, the big man voice says "Daisy!" like he is introducing a new Smasher.
This could be applied to Rosalina, Dr. Mario, Pichu/Raichu I don't care, but it would be a swell idea to incorporate well-liked characters that are BOUND to be clones anyways.

Rosalina would easily have her own moveset when you think about it. In fact, I did do a moveset for her to prove my point.

 

[metaXzero]

^SirKibble was suggesting that when choosing that the Daisy swap would actually be Daisy cosmetically. In Melee and Brawl, its just Peach in with a dye job and Daisy's dress. Peach and Daisy aren't THAT similar.

 

[ChronoBound]

Both Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. are more of a priority than Rosalina. Also, "moveset potential" is an overused phrase. Nearly every character can have moveset potential if you have enough creativity. Look at Toon Link, he had lots of moveset potential but instead he became the most cloney clone of Brawl.

 

[Ilex]

Both Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. are more of a priority than Rosalina. Also, "moveset potential" is an overused phrase. Nearly every character can have moveset potential if you have enough creativity. Look at Toon Link, he had lots of moveset potential but instead he became the most cloney clone of Brawl.

Exactly. What annoys me about most Krystal supporters is that their argument consist of NOTHING but "she's a female can could have an original moveset with her staff". ANY character can have an original moveset if the team tries hard enough.

 

[ChronoBound]

Exactly. What annoys me about most Krystal supporters is that their argument consist of NOTHING but "she's a female can could have an original moveset with her staff". ANY character can have an original moveset if the team tries hard enough.

Yeah. I mention that in my Krystal analysis.

Seriously, Toon Link was a pile of wasted potential.

Up-B: Deku Leaf
Regular-B: Hurricane Spin
Side-B: Skull Hammer
Down-B: Bombchus

And this was just off the top of my head.

 

[Eldrake]

I've had a idea to a stage if Paper Mario doesn't turn out to be playable.

It's a Paper Mario stage, a simple stage where various characters from the Paper Mario series appears in the background. But it does something to the smashers... What is it to be exact?

Simple, the smashers gets a new look, they would look like as though they were in a Paper Mario game.

This is just a crazy idea I've had. I really doubt it would ever be done, mostly due to the difficulties.

 

[SmashChu]

How the heck is the costume changing the character ********? Besides, if you've noticed, I call those kinds of costumes alt. models which is technically a different thing.

I just explained it
1)Not needed
2)Detracts from the character
3)Is only wanted to add characters that a very few people want.

Basically, no reason to do it.

I can tell you right now, though, one series that does that: Tekken. In Tekken 4, for example, Eddy Gordo is an alt. model fot Christie and fights exactly like her. Also, Xiayou had a friend named Miharu who was an alt. for her.

I assumed there was on
I'd look more into it, but I'm too lazy right now.

For the most part, Smash hasn't been modest about it, just lazy. Also, it's Kumatora, and the point of alt. model is to have identical stats and size so that's a moot point.

How has it been lazy. A costume change is simply a color swap. It's just not as dramatic as say, Soul Caliber, where the costume is very different.

The problem is (and I am scared you didn't get this) YOU CAN'T CHANGE STATS AND SIZE. Size natually changes. Lucas is MUCH shorter then Kumatora, thus the character becomes radically different. Stats also need to change naturally. Even looking at the clones, their stats needed to change becuase the two characters were naturally different.

Are you saying that people are too stupid to realize what character they're using? Since lookalikes are would usually be an alt. for the original character, it's safe to assumethat people won't get that confused. Besides, like I said in my definition for alt. models, the characters look exactly like the character supposed to be. In other words, Daisy looks like Daisy, sounds like Daisy, talks like Daisy, but only fights like Peach.

In the midst of battle, yes. I refer you to the Developer Commentary for Team Fortress 2 as they refer to this exact problem. You seem, in the heat of battle, it would be hard to tell who was on what team, and to tell what class you are fighting. As such, it needs to be obvious to the player that you are playing as "X" you are fighting "Y" and you are both on different teams.

The other problem is what I have gone back to far too often. No one wants these characters. Why should they be in the game more then a trophy or a color swap.

I have done numerous polls, looked at numerous polls, and will continue to do more. From data collected from Sakurai's poll, my poll of Smashboards in 2006, the polls conducted here immediately after Brawl (you can still find it by searching SSB4) and my poll of 4chan's /v/, no one wants any of these characters. So, the first question to ask is why even go to any lengths to add this character in any form beyond the standard trophy or sticker. The character is basically Peach to a tee. Why should the developers go though the hassle of getting a voice actor, wasting the announcers time, making anything else to make the character unique and make all the colors, when they can just give Peach a yellow costume. Second, there are better characters to waste their time on, especially from the Mario franchise. Bowser Jr, Waluigi, and Geno come to mind immediately. Why should Daisy be added because a very small group wants her.

If we go back to other franchises, like with Paula, we can see similar, yet different, effects. Why does Earthbound need another character. Not to mention that Jeff is more popular anyway. Is it THAT much of a big deal that Ness uses her attacks? No to mention Paula is a little more then just a skin change. They use the same model, but need to still be designed from the ground up. If we are going this route, why don't we make it a clone so we at least have a new character to play with.

I personally don't think it's a flaw since these character exist underneath the character they're an alt. of. In the end, the roster's appearance will still be diverse.

"Hey billy, who is that?"
"That's Daisy"
"Cool. They seem kind of the same. What is different about them?"
"Nothing"

As you see, on top of everything else I've mentioned, it generally creates a mess with this idea. The characters become harder to identify, more work, better alternatives, and really does nothing for the game.

It would take the same amount of work to make the characters an alt. costume and the same as the copy, then to make the character a clone and at least have some variety.

People do want these characters. Go to starmen.net and some other sites and you'll see that people have been wanting these characters in since it was possible. They're not in the game for two reasons:

Firstly, that's kind of like selective listening. Your looking at a small group and assuming everyone wants this character. It's the same if I go to a Kirby board and seeing everyone wants Mark. Does everyone want Mark. No. But looking at this group, it may seem this way. You must differentiate what is a general consciouses and what is the general consciouses of a small group. (Hope you got that with my bad spelling)

Anyway, of course they won't add anything new, they're alt. characters, not clones.

If it wont add anything new, then why add it? Wouldn't it be better to add a clone. They take the same amount of work and make a character that is at least somewhat unique.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

Luvtoy, I'm getting a sudden feeling that these stages aren't what you asked for. Am I going in the right direction?
Like, the 3D adventure mode you suggested, are you talking about a "story" mode in which certain Smashers have to do their own little adventure, making each character unique, or are you talking about adventure stages that would be good for 3D Smash in general?

You've kinda got the right idea...

I'm thinking of an dventure like DK64 or Banjo-Kazooie/tooie/mario 64 style. Many different worlda re available, and certain things in each world must be accomplished... And you described Princess Peach's Castle just how I imagined it, and the inside being explorable as well, but some of the areas wuld be cut/locked, and the paintings wouldn't be portals....

So answering your question, a 'unique' adventure for each character is what I'm going for. Like when I mentioned Whispy Woods, you begin the world as Kirby, but you can exit it to go to the main world that connects them all or whatever. Each character will be required for at least one thing in each worlds, again with the whispy woods example, the cannon I mentioned in the middle of a clearing--a lot of characters are able to light the fuse at the other end of the forest--but none of them are fast enough to reach the cannon before it blows. Only Sonic is fast enough to get to the cannon after the fuse is lit. This is an example of neding all characters to preform different tasks in each level in order to fully complete it...

 

[Knyaguy]

The problem is (and I am scared you didn't get this) YOU CAN'T CHANGE STATS AND SIZE. Size natually changes. Lucas is MUCH shorter then Kumatora, thus the character becomes radically different. Stats also need to change naturally. Even looking at the clones, their stats needed to change becuase the two characters were naturally different.

What if the coustume was just as simple as Dry Bowser and regular bowser? Does that detract from the game, I think not!

 

[SmashChu]

Problem is, Daisy's moveset would probably be too similar to Peach's moveset. Personally, I find it best for her to be just a color swap instead of a separate character.

Rosalina would easily have her own moveset when you think about it. In fact, I did do a moveset for her to prove my point.

Agreed, on both fronts. I wouldn't mind seeing Roselina that much.

Yeah. I mention that in my Krystal analysis.

Seriously, Toon Link was a pile of wasted potential.

Up-B: Deku Leaf
Regular-B: Hurricane Spin
Side-B: Skull Hammer
Down-B: Bombchus

And this was just off the top of my head.

1)On the topic of Krystal, she is also one of the most popular US picks, alongside Ridley and Geno. She was in the top 5 in my 06 poll, right above Wolf.
2)Logically, Toon Link should have a lot of moves similar to Link. They are pretty much the same person (from different times). Part of his design was move the weapons into a Cel shade look. I would like to see the Spin Attack have a Hurrican Spin function.

I've had a idea to a stage if Paper Mario doesn't turn out to be playable.

It's a Paper Mario stage, a simple stage where various characters from the Paper Mario series appears in the background. But it does something to the smashers... What is it to be exact?

Simple, the smashers gets a new look, they would look like as though they were in a Paper Mario game.

This is just a crazy idea I've had. I really doubt it would ever be done, mostly due to the difficulties.

My idea was the stage from Paper Mario: TYD. Audience throwing things, backgrounds dropping, you know. I like the paper idea you have though.

What if the coustume was just as simple as Dry Bowser and regular bowser? Does that detract from the game, I think not!

Yeah, but my argument is more targeted to the extremest who want it as a means to add a lot of characters. Dry Bowser makes sence as he IS Bowser, just as Overall Wario is Wario in overalls, not a different person.

 

[The Pope Of Pie]

what i would like to see in the costume department would be like what Knyaguy has been saying about Dry Bowser/Bowser.

Things like:

Pokemon Trainer having Team Rocket and 4th of 5th gen costumes. (same Pokemon though, unless a way can be found to change them as well, but that would be fairly hard)
Samus and Fusion suit Samus
Olimar and Louie.

These sort if costumes that would function in the same way Peach and Daisy do, as an option for a colour swap.

 

[Ilex]

Who else would love the Animal Friends from Kirby's Dreamland 3? Each animal would be unique.
Nago- 3 jumps
Rick- Wall cling & jump
Pitch- 5 jumps, glide, fast air speed.
Coo- 4 Jumps, Glide. When he performs his upthrow he can fly while carrying the opponent like DK's Cargo carry.
Rine- Not a clue, he's kinda useless isn't he?
Chuchu- Crawl?

 

[flyinfilipino]

Exactly. What annoys me about most Krystal supporters is that their argument consist of NOTHING but "she's a female can could have an original moveset with her staff". ANY character can have an original moveset if the team tries hard enough.

Maybe it's not just that she has potential for a moveset, but one that looks rather unique. (If she gets her staff back) you don't see any other staff users in Smash right now, compared to sword users. And yes, staff hitboxes would be just like sword hitboxes, but there's nothing wrong with that.

Besides, she's still a popular choice (in the US at least). That's something, right?

ON ANOTHER NOTE:

Are there any new game mechanics that you people think would be good ideas to implement into the next Smash? I mean, buffing up the roster, new alternate costumes, and perhaps an altered adventure mode would be nice. But as far as gameplay goes, what could differentiate SSB4 from Brawl, Melee, and the rest?