[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[SkylerOcon]

I'm going to have fun with this.

As for the design of Lip, the character was never brought into 3-D. Lip’s design obviously will have a radical departure from original much like Pit’s (compare his trophy in Melee to his Brawl model).

Pit's melee trophy model was based off of the art from the Kid Icarus game. They decided that that didn't look very good (which it didn't) and made Pit's Brawl model which looked very good.

As mentioned in my reasoning for Lip, there are several problems with her current design (which is here only one). Lip looks to be only about 10-years old, and she also wears I a skirt that only goes down to her knees. There is a reason why Nintendo of America has gone out their way any game she has appeared in barring Brawl.

Actually, NOA bans most games because American gamers just won't pick them up. Puzzle games were never a major market in NA, while in Japan they have popularity.

Also, I highly expect a lot of Lip’s fans are into loli, something that is disgusting and even worse than furrie fandom. I was seriously having second thoughts about putting Lip onto my roster due to her design and what a sizable portion of her fanbase probably consists of.

Opinion without proof. Um... where is the proof that the people who want Lip (which, surprisingly, I'm not one! I was just saying that she isn't loli) in SSB4 are pedos?

As for Lip’s design, I suggest two things. One would be for her to be made older like perhaps a teen at the least (or maybe even an older teen like Zelda), and also given pants to wear underneath her skirt (like Zelda). I feel if these two changes are not implemented into her design she will never be made into a playable character in Smash Bros., and if she was, she would most certainly be removed outside Japan.

So, giving her breasts will totally get rid of the perversion, right? Keep in mind that even though some people may be pedophiles, there are a hell of a lot more people who like more matured women. Samus isn't exactly lacking in that department.

So fanboys who have an objection to these changes can shove it with their loli fetish.

Once again, opinion without proof.

Anyhow, although Lip would be made older, she would still retain the cuteness and innocence of her original design.

So... giving her breasts and keeping her cute is totally innocent, amirite?

 

[ChronoBound]

I am not even going to bother. I am determined in my mindset, and so are you. If you object with what I have to say, then simply ignore it.

Since it seems what I am proposing for Lip is not going over well with her fans, then I will remove her from my roster. Please don't view me as an antagonist for this reason.

 

[Chief Mendez]

The reason many people are against Lip is due to her design. It seems as though everyone is against me for this.

Okay--

1. I've never heard of anyone objecting to Lip, and if I have, it's usually because she's not well-known, or hasn't appeared in many games. I've never, until today, heard the complaint that she'd give pedos a rise.

2. We're (well, at least me) not against you for thinking that, it's just that you were so gosh-darned concrete about it, saying "it's this or nothing--there are no alternatives". You didn't even try to see it our way, or if you did, you didn't come off as having done so.

I know I sounded like a bit of a **** last post, so I apologize for that. It'd be nice if you didn't assume all your ideas are always right, though, is all I'm saying.

As for Lip’s design, I suggest two things. One would be for her to be made older like perhaps a teen at the least (or maybe even an older teen like Zelda), and also given pants to wear underneath her skirt (like Zelda).

Like bicycle shorts, right? I could maybe see that, so long as they didn't extend below her skirt length (because that's just bad fashion, don't'cha'know).

I'm against the age-change thing, though. Maybe a year or two, but a Zelda-aged (or even Peach-aged) Lip would be silly. She's supposed to be a little kid, not a late adolescent.

Also, extra note: I think from now on we should all just stay far, far, far away from sexual preferences. To each his own, of course, but there are other places to talk about that stuff.

Besides, it has nothing to do with any character getting into Smash Bros.

Spoiler

Except Krystal.

Chief Mendez is now the awesomest person on SmashBoards. All bow to him.

Awesome.

EDIT - WTF Smashboards. I can't write ****. It's a person's name, for ****'s sake.

 

[ChronoBound]

Okay--

1. I've never heard of anyone objecting to Lip, and if I have, it's usually because she's not well-known, or hasn't appeared in many games. I've never, until today, heard the complaint that she'd give pedos a rise.

2. We're (well, at least me) not against you for thinking that, it's just that you were so gosh-darned concrete about it, saying "it's this or nothing--there are no alternatives". You didn't even try to see it our way, or if you did, you didn't come off as having done so.

I know I sounded like a bit of a **** last post, so I apologize for that. It'd be nice if you didn't assume all your ideas are always right, though, is all I'm saying.

Like bicycle shorts, right? I could maybe see that, so long as they didn't extend below her skirt length (because that's just bad fashion, don't'cha'know).

I'm against the age-change thing, though. Maybe a year or two, but a Zelda-aged (or even Peach-aged) Lip would be silly. She's supposed to be a little kid, not a late adolescent.

Also, extra note: I think from now on we should all just stay far, far, far away from sexual preferences. To each his own, of course, but there are other places to talk about that stuff.

Besides, it has nothing to do with any character getting into Smash Bros.

Spoiler

Except Krystal.

Awesome.

I might consider removing Lip, but yeah I was referring to bicycle shorts. Will you still work with me, even if I decide to remove Lip?

 

[Chief Mendez]

I might consider removing Lip, but yeah I was referring to bicycle shorts. Will you still work with me, even if I decide to remove Lip?

With the assumption that you'll be a bit more accepting of the other SSB4 Discussion regulars' opinions on things, yeah totally.

I mean, you really don't have to remove Lip. Seriously, we can work on this, instead of just throwing her out because people don't agree with your reasoning.

 

[SkylerOcon]

It's fine if you want to remove her, it's your character list.

 

[metaXzero]

Chronobound
1. I'm pretty sure that they rebranded the two(?) Panel de Pon games just so the game would stick out more (anime style characters hadn't picked up yet and established character Yoshi would probably push more units then some no name little girl). I can't find anything suggesting that NOA thought Lip's design was to risque'.
2. Your statement about the Lip fans and loli fans reaks of personal hatred. You seem to not want Lip's older design just because you hate what the loli freaks might fap 2.

EDIT: DANG. This topic moves fast!

 

[ChronoBound]

Let's just drop the Lip discussion. I have a headache because of it. (seriously)

 

[SmashChu]

*sigh

I am seriously despressed right now. The reason many people are against Lip is due to her design. It seems as though everyone is against me for this.

Firstly, who exactly are these people? Is it people like NoA?

Next, it goes back to something I've said a lot on Nintendo Database: "If you hear hoofs, think horses, not zebras". Lip was removed for Yoshi and the game changed was not to pedophiles will like the character (which is more or less irrelevant as anyone with a creepy fetish WILL find an outlet whether we let them or not) but the fact the overly feminine style of the game would be off putting to the typical audience of the time: young boys. In typical American fashion, they'd claim the game was "uncool" or "for girls" as appose to having a character they knew well. In the states, Panel De Pon wouldn't have gotten anywhere. Not to mention, at the time of release, NoA did a lot more changing and blocking games then they do now. Consequently, she was also removed from Planet Puzzle League as it would seem out of place to western gamers. Also, she has yet to appear in Brawl at all, despite request and Sakurai liking the franchise, she wasn't added. You claim that it is becuase of her skirt, but the Japanese wouldn't care about the loli lurkers (stuff a lot worse is allowed to children) but she doesn't even appear in the Japanese version. Sakurai said that we wanted to limit Japanese only characters. The only one added was Lucas, who is also coupled with the Earthbound franchise. There were no other Japanese only characters. Not to mention she has never fought (or assume to fight) before. Much like Animal Crosser, Sakurai probably skipped over her.

Here's the thing: just becuase it makes sence, doesn't mean it's true. You have evidence to back your claim and there is reason, but it looks at a less likely situation rather then what is practical.

But remember to back your claim up. I didn't think you said a lot to support it, but rather claim it as fact (which obviously is very frustrating). If you want to give Lip a longer skirt, no one is stopping you. If you feel it would be for the best, then go ahead.

EDIT:Oh, didn't realize this discussion went on for so long. You guys are fast.
Also, looking though the post on this thread I have to say: You guys

 

[Chief Mendez]

EDIT:Oh, didn't realize this discussion went on for so long. You guys are fast.
Also, looking though the post on this thread I have to say: You guys

YA SRSLY

So anyways, when Lip first came up, Chrono mentioned Ray. Why one or the other? Why can't both characters be included?

Y'know...for that matter, Chrono, why don't you just post your wish roster? Normally I ignore them when posted in this topic, but you seem to always put about a billion times more thought and research into your picks than most people, so perhaps I'll make an exception?

 

[NinjaFoxX]

Let's just drop the Lip discussion. I have a headache because of it. (seriously)

i need to hit you head a little before we do,so lets start:

1.

Also, I highly expect a lot of Lip’s fans are into loli, something that is disgusting and even worse than furrie fandom. I was seriously having second thoughts about putting Lip onto my roster due to her design and what a sizable portion of her fanbase probably consists of.

although im not exactly a fan of either furry or loli,i know this is a very biased,close minded statment,not olny is there nothing wrong with either of these(why,its just personal prefrence and isint gonna hirt anyone) its not good to say things like that.

2.

As for Lip’s design, I suggest two things. One would be for her to be made older like perhaps a teen at the least (or maybe even an older teen like Zelda), and also given pants to wear underneath her skirt (like Zelda). I feel if these two changes are not implemented into her design she will never be made into a playable character in Smash Bros., and if she was, she would most certainly be removed outside Japan.

well, an older version or w/e could be an alternate costume(use both loli and highschool version of them)and removing a char. because how they look would cause some heavy problems.

3.

I am not even going to bother. I am determined in my mindset, and so are you. If you object with what I have to say, then simply ignore it.

Since it seems what I am proposing for Lip is not going over well with her fans, then I will remove her from my roster. Please don't view me as an antagonist for this reason.

you are open to your oponions,noones gonna complain if you speak your mind,but...expect you back up your oponions with non-baisaed facts,if you cant,it would be a good idea not to say anything and end up getting flamed

done,now we can drop it^.^

 

[SmashChu]

YA SRSLY

So anyways, when Lip first came up, Chrono mentioned Ray. Why one or the other? Why can't both characters be included?

The reason is becuase it's suppose to be a large project. I'm guessing it was between those two character as he was torn between which one should get the last spot.

Not everyone can be in a game. There has to be cuts somewhere. The Brawl disc even shows that.

 

[Chief Mendez]

The reason is becuase it's suppose to be a large project. I'm guessing it was between those two character as he was torn between which one should get the last spot.

Not everyone can be in a game. There has to be cuts somewhere. The Brawl disc even shows that.

Yeah, granted. I only say that as a guy who would really, really like to see those two characters in the game.

 

[ChronoBound]

YA SRSLY

So anyways, when Lip first came up, Chrono mentioned Ray. Why one or the other? Why can't both characters be included?

Y'know...for that matter, Chrono, why don't you just post your wish roster? Normally I ignore them when posted in this topic, but you seem to always put about a billion times more thought and research into your picks than most people, so perhaps I'll make an exception?

It was a bad idea for me to disclose my roster this early on. I am seriously contemplating dropping my roster count to 45, and I was seeing which character would be more wanted between Lip and Ray.

However, I did have a really detailed explanation for including Lip (it is three pages long) as well as every other character on my roster. Even if I decide to cut Lip, I will gladly give the three page essay to Lip fans (as well as the moveset) to use for their support topic for whenever Smash 4 is announced.

Also, while the actual typing for the project will be done by late August, I don't see myself posting it until probably October due to editting and running it by people for stuff that could offend people like that paragraph for Lip.

 

[Chief Mendez]

It was a bad idea for me to disclose my roster this early on. I am seriously contemplating dropping my roster count to 45, and I was seeing which character would be more wanted between Lip and Ray.

Dude...you've only mentioned like, two characters. You haven't disclosed your roster at all.

I mean, if we don't know who's on your wishlist, how are we supposed to help with it?

However, I did have a really detailed explanation for including Lip (it is three pages long) as well as every other character on my roster.

See, I'd love to read that stuff. Even if the thing isn't totally done, I'd still like to see what you have so far.

Personally, I think that if you wait until you have everything done, you'll end up having spent months on a huge project that only a handful of SmashBoarders will actually read. And in that scenario, it'll be more difficult to edit the projeckt based on the community's reception of it.

In short: it'd be really, really awesome of you to actually share some of this stuff, instead of just talking about it.

 

[ChronoBound]

Dude...you've only mentioned like, two characters. You haven't disclosed your roster at all.

I mean, if we don't know who's on your wishlist, how are we supposed to help with it?

See, I'd love to read that stuff. Even if the thing isn't totally done, I'd still like to see what you have so far.

Personally, I think that if you wait until you have everything done, you'll end up having spent months on a huge project that only a handful of SmashBoarders will actually read. And in that scenario, it'll be more difficult to edit the projeckt based on the community's reception of it.

In short: it'd be really, really awesome of you to actually share some of this stuff, instead of just talking about it.

I will think about it. My roster even used to be bigger (56 characters).

ChiefMendez, I heard you are a supporter of Simon Belmont. If Snake's moveset could be given to another character, would you mind Simon replacing Snake as the Konami rep? (note: Simon is not a character on my roster).

 

[metaXzero]

Chronobound. You never did explain (or I missed it) why you didn't want Snake in the SSB4 roster.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I will think about it. My roster even used to be bigger (56 characters).

Such a thing wouldn't be impossible, if you consent that the next game will have clones (which it will). Maybe not likely but...meh.

I heard you are a supporter of Simon Belmont. If Snake's moveset could be given to another character, would you mind Simon replacing Snake as the Konami rep? (note: Simon is not a character on my roster).

F*CK NO.

I love me some Snake, but I love Castlevania more than I love a good chicken dinner. It's probably my favorite series in all of gaming, at that. So yes, I would be totally, 100% fine and dandy with that, though I'm still wondering who Snake's going to be replaced by--O SNAP, is it anyone from Contra?

If you tell me Lance Bean or Bill Rizer (or, hell, both) would replace him, I think I'm going to esplode with awesome.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

replace snake?i say add vaati then,what do you think?

 

[ChronoBound]

Chronobound. You never did explain (or I missed it) why you didn't want Snake in the SSB4 roster.

Here is an excerpt from an essay I have relating to Snake:

Snake I feel is one of the most undeserving character to ever get in the Smash Bros. series as a playable character. Snake had his first game on the MSX and most of his games were on the PlayStation consoles (PS1, PS2, PSP, and PS3). Snake’s history on Nintendo consoles is trivial. In total, there have been four Metal Gear games on Nintendo consoles. Two of them were on the NES, one was on the Game Boy Color, and the last one was on the GameCube. However, only one is a canon game (Twin Snakes for the GameCube which is a remake of Metal Gear Solid 1, and was outsourced to Silicon Knights). The other three are not canon (though Ghost Babel for the GBC is debatable regarding whether its canon to the series). The two on the NES are hated by Kojima himself, and he was so embarrassed by the NES port of the first one, that he made Metal Gear 2 for the MSX. Even with the success of the Nintendo DS worldwide, Kojima decided not to give any Metal Gear games for the DS, but he did give the PSP three Metal Gear games (Acid 1, Acid 2, and Portable Ops). Heck, the Wii has been a major success, and Kojima has not announced any Metal Gear games for the Wii. However, there have been two Metal Gear games for the PlayStation 3 (Metal Gear Solid 4 and Metal Gear Online). Perhaps the most important instance as to how Snake is no longer welcome in Smash Bros. (or at least would be very nonsensical in Smash Bros. 4) is that Kojima has said that Snake’s role in the Metal Gear series is done, and if any more Metal Gear games are made that they will star a new protagonist

Spoiler

(Snake only has about a month or two left to live at the end of Metal Gear Solid 4).

Although Snake is one of the most memorable and popular video game protagonists, he simply does not belong in a series that is about the heritage and history of Nintendo. The fact that he will no longer be in his own series will make him even more out of place in Smash Bros. 4.

 

[ChronoBound]

Such a thing wouldn't be impossible, if you consent that the next game will have clones (which it will). Maybe not likely but...meh.

F*CK NO.

I love me some Snake, but I love Castlevania more than I love a good chicken dinner. It's probably my favorite series in all of gaming, at that. So yes, I would be totally, 100% fine and dandy with that, though I'm still wondering who Snake's going to be replaced by--O SNAP, is it anyone from Contra?

If you tell me Lance Bean or Bill Rizer (or, hell, both) would replace him, I think I'm going to esplode with awesome.

A Contra character could very well take Snake's moveset. However, I only think there should only be one character per third-party in Smash Bros.

As for who could take Snake's moveset in the Nintendo universe here is another excerpt from the same essay:

Snake’s moveset is highly original. Many people would mourn to lose an original moveset (which is among the many reasons why people were upset with Mewtwo being cut). However, fortunately his moveset is also generic. His moveset consists of modern military weapons (with the exception of Cypher, which is an original Metal Gear creation). However, there is a series within Nintendo that consists of modern military technology, which is Advance Wars. However, while I do have an original moveset for Andy for this project (which was made by SmashChu), Andy can very well be given most of Snake’s moveset , though it would be quite awkward with him considering he’s a kid. Its for this reason that I may opt for another Advance Wars character if I do decide to cut Snake (one that has a physique more similar to his). The only other Nintendo character that I can see taking Snake’s moveset is a minor one. Pico from the F-Zero series is a former member of a special forces unit, and outside of racing in F-Zero, he operates as an effective assassin. In his ending video in F-Zero GX, he can be seen operating realistic weapons (trust me, its perhaps the coolest of the ending videos in F-Zero GX). Pico’s ability to use real world weapons and his similar build as Snake makes him an ideal replacement. However, outside of being one of the four original pilots in F-Zero, Pico is not important to overall story in the F-Zero series. Still, an Advance Wars character could take most of Snake’s old moveset with the only parts of it being relinquished being his up-b (Cypher), his Final Smash, and possibly his stats (though it would serve to balance him out).

Edit: I also apologize to any Lip fans I offended in my posts. I will refrain from referencing my disdain for loli when I actually decide to post the topic. Please forgive me being a bit of a jerk, I just really don't like loli.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Here is an excerpt from an essay I have relating to Snake:

Snake I feel is one of the most undeserving character to ever get in the Smash Bros. series as a playable character. Snake had his first game on the MSX and most of his games were on the PlayStation consoles (PS1, PS2, PSP, and PS3). Snake’s history on Nintendo consoles is trivial. In total, there have been four Metal Gear games on Nintendo consoles. Two of them were on the NES, one was on the Game Boy Color, and the last one was on the GameCube. However, only one is a canon game (Twin Snakes for the GameCube which is a remake of Metal Gear Solid 1, and was outsourced to Silicon Knights). The other three are not canon (though Ghost Babel for the GBC is debatable regarding whether its canon to the series). The two on the NES are hated by Kojima himself, and he was so embarrassed by the NES port of the first one, that he made Metal Gear 2 for the MSX. Even with the success of the Nintendo DS worldwide, Kojima decided not to give any Metal Gear games for the DS, but he did give the PSP three Metal Gear games (Acid 1, Acid 2, and Portable Ops). Heck, the Wii has been a major success, and Kojima has not announced any Metal Gear games for the Wii. However, there have been two Metal Gear games for the PlayStation 3 (Metal Gear Solid 4 and Metal Gear Online). Perhaps the most important instance as to how Snake is no longer welcome in Smash Bros. (or at least would be very nonsensical in Smash Bros. 4) is that Kojima has said that Snake’s role in the Metal Gear series is done, and if any more Metal Gear games are made that they will star a new protagonist

Spoiler

(Snake only has about a month or two left to live at the end of Metal Gear Solid 4).

Although Snake is one of the most memorable and popular video game protagonists, he simply does not belong in a series that is about the heritage and history of Nintendo. The fact that he will no longer be in his own series will make him even more out of place in Smash Bros. 4.

A few things:

Metal Gear on the NES is definitely a canonical entry in the series. So is Metal Gear 2, despite how Kojima feels about it. I've never actually played Ghost Babel for more than like, five minutes, so I don't know about that one.

Kojima had nothing to do with either Ac!d game, nor Portable Ops,and frankly, it shows--none of them are real Metal Gear games, nor are the Ac!d games canon. Not that that makes much difference, as there still hasn't been a Metal Gear game on a Ninty console since TTS.

And he can still be in more Metal Gears. There's a huge gap between MGS3/PO and Metal Gear (I think PO takes place in the mid-seventies, and Metal Gear 1 goes down in '95). So as Portable Ops proves, Konami's definitely willing to go back and detail Snake's adventures.

Also, I hate you. Nobody else quote this passage, and definitely, under no circumstances should anybody else read that spoiler text, unless you want MGS4 ruined for you. Goddammit.

If you're going to throw around stuff that important, make note of it outside the spoilers, so I know

Spoiler

a joke

from *FFVII SPOILERS*

Spoiler

Aeris dies, Zack is Cloud/Cloud is Zack, "The planet's dyin', Cloud!"

.

EDIT - The problem with the Advance Wars characters using Snake's moves is that they don't use weapons either (besides Sami, I guess). They just command the action. Making a AW character with a moveset that doesn't revolve around commanding units would be a dishonor to the franchise.

Sure, Fire Emblem's like that too, but those characters actually do fight battles in the games.

Also that would mean no more awesome codec conversations.

 

[ChronoBound]

A few things:

Metal Gear on the NES is definitely a canonical entry in the series. So is Metal Gear 2, despite how Kojima feels about it. I've never actually played Ghost Babel for more than like, five minutes, so I don't know about that one.

Kojima had nothing to do with either Ac!d game, nor Portable Ops,and frankly, it shows--none of them are real Metal Gear games, nor are the Ac!d games canon. Not that that makes much difference, as there still hasn't been a Metal Gear game on a Ninty console since TTS.

And he can still be in more Metal Gears. There's a huge gap between MGS3/PO and Metal Gear (I think PO takes place in the mid-seventies, and Metal Gear 1 goes down in '95). So as Portable Ops proves, Konami's definitely willing to go back and detail Snake's adventures.

Also, I hate you. Nobody else quote this passage, and definitely, under no circumstances should anybody else read that spoiler text, unless you want MGS4 ruined for you. Goddammit.

If you're going to throw around stuff that important, make note of it outside the spoilers, so I know

Spoiler

a joke

from *FFVII SPOILERS*

Spoiler

Aeris dies, Zack is Cloud/Cloud is Zack, "The planet's dyin', Cloud!"

.

EDIT - The problem with the Advance Wars characters using Snake's moves is that they don't use weapons either (besides Sami, I guess). They just command the action. Making a AW character with a moveset that doesn't revolve around commanding units would be a dishonor to the franchise.

Sure, Fire Emblem's like that too, but those characters actually do fight battles in the games.

Also that would mean no more awesome codec conversations.

Paper Mario tattle conversations could easily replace codecs. Secondly, I am sure someone like Wil, Brenner, or Lin knows how to operate modern military weaponry.

Finally, there is a reason I put a spoiler tag.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Paper Mario tattle conversations could easily replace codecs. Secondly, I am sure someone like Wil, Brenner, or Lin knows how to operate modern military weaponry.

Well, I don't think any of those would be the AW rep, but that's still besides the point. They might know how to operate them, but they, being commanding officers, wouldn't carry around mortar/rocket/missile launchers. The grenades would still work, but not much else.

Also you've gotta remember that whoever theoretically takes Snake's moveset has to be physically similar, or most of his melee attacks wouldn't make sense/look right.

Finally, there is a reason I put a spoiler tag.

Yeah I know, but still.

Some of us

Spoiler

not naming any names

tend to overuse that feature in the pursuit of cheap laughs

Spoiler

wanna' hear a joke? women's rights

a bit too often, which sort of decreases the impact spoilers have for some of us.

Not to mention the whole stupid

Spoiler

10chars

thing.

EDIT - Also, tattling is nowhere near as awesome as codecs. They consist of one sentence (two if it's a boss) that's usually a bad pun. Codec > Tattle

 

[hippochinfat!!]

Here is an excerpt from an essay I have relating to Snake:

Snake I feel is one of the most undeserving character to ever get in the Smash Bros. series as a playable character. Snake had his first game on the MSX and most of his games were on the PlayStation consoles (PS1, PS2, PSP, and PS3). Snake’s history on Nintendo consoles is trivial. In total, there have been four Metal Gear games on Nintendo consoles. Two of them were on the NES, one was on the Game Boy Color, and the last one was on the GameCube. However, only one is a canon game (Twin Snakes for the GameCube which is a remake of Metal Gear Solid 1, and was outsourced to Silicon Knights). The other three are not canon (though Ghost Babel for the GBC is debatable regarding whether its canon to the series). The two on the NES are hated by Kojima himself, and he was so embarrassed by the NES port of the first one, that he made Metal Gear 2 for the MSX. Even with the success of the Nintendo DS worldwide, Kojima decided not to give any Metal Gear games for the DS, but he did give the PSP three Metal Gear games (Acid 1, Acid 2, and Portable Ops). Heck, the Wii has been a major success, and Kojima has not announced any Metal Gear games for the Wii. However, there have been two Metal Gear games for the PlayStation 3 (Metal Gear Solid 4 and Metal Gear Online). Perhaps the most important instance as to how Snake is no longer welcome in Smash Bros. (or at least would be very nonsensical in Smash Bros. 4) is that Kojima has said that Snake’s role in the Metal Gear series is done, and if any more Metal Gear games are made that they will star a new protagonist

Spoiler

(Snake only has about a month or two left to live at the end of Metal Gear Solid 4).

Although Snake is one of the most memorable and popular video game protagonists, he simply does not belong in a series that is about the heritage and history of Nintendo. The fact that he will no longer be in his own series will make him even more out of place in Smash Bros. 4.

I'm sorry but that's just stupid. Who cares if he only has 4 games on a Nintendo console, he's a gaming icon that most people love. You're looking to far into it. Metal Gear for NES IS canon, it's not like the story is set in an alternate universe from the MG series.

Look, Snake won't be in any future MGS games most likely (Unless it's a prequel/remake that includes him) but they aren't going to make another MGS game for a while and if they do, it will probaly center around Big Boss like Snake Eater and PO and some of Smash Snake's moves are taken from him.

How could Simon Belmont replace him? Holy water C4! WTF.

Also, Mendez that really isn't a spoiler. I mean in a very old MGS4 trailer Naomi tells Snake he has six months left to live.

 

[Chief Mendez]

How could Simon Belmont replace him? Holy water C4! WTF.

He's not suggesting Simon would take Snake's moveset--he's saying Simon's a better Konami rep (which is true), and that an Advance Wars character could take Snake's moveset.

Also, Mendez that really isn't a spoiler. I mean in a very old MGS4 trailer Naomi tells Snake he has six months left to live.

Hmm.

Uh...my bad? Truth be told, I had generally gotten the fact that Snake was on the way out just from all the media coverage, but, eh. It bugs me that I won't be playing the darn thing for another year or longer, and it's really getting tough to avoid spoilers.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

He's not suggesting Simon would take Snake's moveset--he's saying Simon's a better Konami rep (which is true), and that an Advance Wars character could take Snake's moveset.

Hmm.

Uh...my bad? Truth be told, I had generally gotten the fact that Snake was on the way out just from all the media coverage, but, eh. It bugs me that I won't be playing the darn thing for another year or longer, and it's really getting tough to avoid spoilers.

Advance Wars? Wow. Seems like it wouldn't fit right.

 

[SmashChu]

I'm sorry but that's just stupid. Who cares if he only has 4 games on a Nintendo console, he's a gaming icon that most people love. You're looking to far into it. Metal Gear for NES IS canon, it's not like the story is set in an alternate universe from the MG series.

I think it is very important. Smash is a compilation of Nintendo's history into a fighting/party game. It is out of place for a character who is more associated with the competitors unit. Although, 4 isn't a bad number compared to how few games there are.

It's also his feel. He is a very realistic character in what is essentially a very fantasy orientated game, so by that, he feels very out of place. Of course, some people place this as his charm. To each their own I guess.

How could Simon Belmont replace him? Holy water C4! WTF.

It's more of a matter of he takes the spot rather then the moveset. Of course, if that was the case, Megaman would be a better pick.

 

[Chief Mendez]

It's more of a matter of he takes the spot rather then the moveset. Of course, if that was the case, Megaman would be a better pick.

Yet Megaman isn't a Konami character, so that's a moot point.

 

[SmashChu]

Yet Megaman isn't a Konami character, so that's a moot point.

Well, I was saying if they were going to remove one 3rd party for another, Megaman would be a better fit.

 

[ChronoBound]

How about this, Snake will stay if a Metal Gear game starring Snake is made before Smash 4 is made. Sounds fair, since its more up to Kojima.

Anyway, if I were directing Smash 4, I would try my best to make sure no characters from Brawl are cut (however, I might cut Snake unless he gets a new game on a Nintendo console which is not up to me), and at try to bring back at least two of the cut Melee characters (Mewtwo and Roy are the most important of which).

So, if no characters were cut, and if Smash 4 was capped at 45 slots on the character select screen, here would be the newcomers I would pick:

1. Mewtwo
2. Roy (with a completely decloned moveset)
3. Ridley
4. K. Rool
5. Black Shadow (or Goroh)
6. Ray (the model will be the one from the most recent Custom Robo)
7. Little Mac
8. An Advance Wars character.
9. Paper Mario
10. Mega Man

Would you object if no characters were cut from Brawl and if these were the only newcomers?

 

[hippochinfat!!]

That's still very stupid. He's most likely still going to stay.

What if it stars Big Boss? Again, Smash Snake takes several things from him.

Also, I would hate that newcomer list. Roy I really don't care about I don't like Advance wars and Little Mac would not only have a bland moveset, he doesn't really deserve it. Paper Mario is stupid, we don't need 2 Marios, I really don't care about moveset potential. Ridley would look hilarious scaled down plus I don't really like him.

Megaman, Mewtwo and Roy I'm fine with and I'd love to see Ray (GC model!!!) and K. Rool. 10 newcomers seems to small as well. Brawl had 18 newcomers after all.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Well, I was saying if they were going to remove one 3rd party for another, Megaman would be a better fit.

HERESY!

I kid, I kid (not really though). Megaman's the best Capcom rep, but if Snake is taken out (which, for the record, I don't think will happen), then another Konami rep would be the way to go, and there' none better than Simon Belmont.

How about this, Snake will stay if a Metal Gear game starring Snake is made before Smash 4 is made. Sounds fair, since its more up to Kojima.

Uh, sure(?). I don't think the developers would actually think this way, but for our own purposes, we'll go with that.

So, if no characters were cut, and if Smash 4 was capped at 45 slots on the character select screen, here would be the newcomers I would pick:

1. Mewtwo
2. Roy (with a completely decloned moveset)
3. Ridley
4. K. Rool
5. Black Shadow (or Goroh)
6. Ray (the model will be the one from the most recent Custom Robo)
7. Little Mac
8. An Advance Wars character.
9. Paper Mario
10. Mega Man

Would you object if no characters were cut from Brawl and if these were the only newcomers?

Yes, I would. I would object indeed.

The big one that stands out is Roy. I question how well you know your Fire Emblem, as Roy is not a very standout figure in the Fire Emblem franchise as a whole.

Also I think there are some characters that can be cut from Brawl's roster. Toon Link (or Young Link) is a very superfluous addition. The concept has mystified me since Young Link showed up in Melee. So he can be cut.

Also if Mewtwo's coming back, I think that bodes ill for Lucario, from the developer's perspective at least.

Finally, there's no WTF character in that list. Melee had G&W, Brawl had R.O.B., but SSB4 (according to you), has...?

Also, I would hate that newcomer list. Roy I really don't care about I don't like Advance wars and Little Mac would not only have a bland moveset, he doesn't really deserve it. Paper Mario is stupid, we don't need 2 Marios, I really don't care about moveset potential. Ridley would look hilarious scaled down plus I don't really like him.

Megaman, Mewtwo and Roy I'm fine with and I'd love to see Ray (GC model!!!) and K. Rool. 10 newcomers seems to small as well. Brawl had 18 newcomers after all.

Frankly, nobody cares who you do or do not like. Don't go using that as a reason not to include a character.

I do agree though, that 10 newcomers seems a bit skimpy. Granted, as the roster grows, so do the newcomers, as the developers have to create a larger amount of updated character models/movesets for the veterans, but still...

P.S. Hold It!

 

[ChronoBound]

I have my reasoning for keeping Roy, and I am probably one of the biggest experts when it comes to Fire Emblem on this site.

Aonuma said that he would continue to make cell-shaded Zeldas for handhelds, so Toon Link could be still be important to his series by the time Smash 4 rolls around.

Third, Mewtwo and Lucario are nothing alike, aside from one special move and their forward and up A-smashes.

Finally, I do have a WTF character, however, for this hypothetical roster I did not include it.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I have my reasoning for keeping Roy, and I am probably one of the biggest experts when it comes to Fire Emblem on this site.

Well then? Out with it!

What makes the primary character from one of the worst games in the series so worthwhile?

Aonuma said that he would continue to make cell-shaded Zeldas for handhelds, so Toon Link could be still be important to his series by the time Smash 4 rolls around.

Well, if he has to stay, they should at least create a unique set of specials for him. Or change normal Link to suit it.

Either way, it still seems silly to me.

Third, Mewtwo and Lucario are nothing alike, aside from one special move and their forward and up A-smashes.

Not according to Sakurai, apparently. The two have the same physics, and share two specials (the animation's different for the recovery, but it's the same effect). The other two specials aren't really that complicated, either.

Anyway, Lucario's not going to be important at all after the fifth gen comes out, so there's also that to chew on.

 

[ChronoBound]

You are seriously like Godot. I am waiting for you to throw a coffee mug at me or something. No matter how detailed my reasoning you will just respond, "Evidence Trite, do you have it?!"

Also, the only people that think FE6 is one of the worst games are the Jugdral-ites. The games in the series that no one likes are FE2 and FE8.
I also have a six page reasoning for keeping Roy, however, I can't post it since I am using the Wii browser.

Lastly, Mewtwo and Lucario were planned to be in the game even late in Brawl's development. Mewtwo is one of two of the Forbidden 7 that was planned to have their own victory theme, and there is still a file for Mewtwo's classic mode image within Brawl's coding. As you can see, Sakurai was planning on having both in Brawl.

 

[capncone]

All I want is Melee 2.0.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

HERESY!

Frankly, nobody cares who you do or do not like. Don't go using that as a reason not to include a character.

I do agree though, that 10 newcomers seems a bit skimpy. Granted, as the roster grows, so do the newcomers, as the developers have to create a larger amount of updated character models/movesets for the veterans, but still...

P.S. Hold It!

He was telling me if I (keyword) would object. I said yes and I stated why. Of course it's my opinions. You don't have to be such a jerk.

I have reasons as to why some characters are probaly going to be removed but I don't really want anyone removed. I also have reasons as to why I don't want certain characters in.

Also, Chrono that WTF character better be a good one. Not just some random loser. ROB and G&W were both important to Nintendo history after all.

 

[Chief Mendez]

You are seriously like Godot. I am waiting for you to throw a coffee mug at me or something. No matter how detailed my reasoning you will just respond, "Evidence Trite, do you have it?!"

I'm going to call you 'Trite' from now on.

Also, the only people that think FE6 is one of the worst games are the Jugdral-ites. The games in the series that no one likes are FE2 and FE8.
I also have a six page reasoning for keeping Roy, however, I can't post it since I am using the Wii browser.

Is there an issue with being a Jugdralite? I didn't think so.

Yes, FE8 an FE2 are also bad. Probably worse than 6. Still though, the GBA games in general are vastly inferior to the Super Famicom games and the recent Tellius games. Roy was in Melee because of his status as the most recent Lord at the time, and even then, he was a shoddy clone of Marth.

Ike, I believe, should be kept--he's the harbinger of 3D Fire Emblem, as well as the series' return to consoles in general. Marth is the Original Ganster, so he's in as well. I think it's logical to then assume the third (and final) Fire Emblem rep should be the main character from FE12, or if that's not out before it needs to be, another character from FE DS (Sheeda, let's say).

Still though, I'll let this go until you can share that two billion page analysis, okay Trite?

Lastly, Mewtwo and Lucario were planned to be in the game even late in Brawl's development. Mewtwo is one of two of the Forbidden 7 that was planned to have their own victory theme, and there is still a file for Mewtwo's classic mode image within Brawl's coding. As you can see, Sakurai was planning on having both in Brawl.

Alright you got me on this.

I'm stupid and tired at 5AM.

...Speaking of the Forbidden 7 though...shouldn't they get some added priority in any wish roster? Off the top of my head, there's Toon Zelda/Toon Sheik, Mewtwo, Plusle & Minun, and Dixie Kong.

But like I said, I'm stupid and tired, so that's all I got.

He was telling me if I (keyword) would object. I said yes and I stated why. Of course it's my opinions. You don't have to be such a jerk.

I have reasons as to why some characters are probaly going to be removed but I don't really want anyone removed. I also have reasons as to why I don't want certain characters in.

Well then...use those reasons. Honestly, and no offense intended, but nobody who reads these posts will care if you list "I don't like X character" as a reason for inclusion/exclusion.

Sorry if I sounded overtly harsh or something. Really, I didn't mean to offend.

 

[ChronoBound]

The Forbidden 7 are:
- Mewtwo
- Roy
- Dr. Mario
- Dixie Kong
- Plusle & Minun
- Toon Zelda
- Toon Sheik

Roy was also one of two of the Forbidden 7 to have a unique victory theme planned, meaning he was probably among the last two to be dropped.

Also, there are a lot of people who hate the Tellius Fire Emblems (especially FE10). Heck, FE10 got lower reviews than even FE8. As for proof about lower reviews, GameRankings.