[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[darkserenade]

Since many people are talking about how"x character isn't gonna be in because x character isn't popular in x", what about this: Sonic isn't popular in Japan, so make him America only. Japan would get him as DLC, so those who like him buy him. This is a failure idea and would cause much uproar, but hey, I thought this in 30 seconds.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Since many people are talking about how"x character isn't gonna be in because x character isn't popular in x", what about this: Sonic isn't popular in Japan, so make him America only. Japan would get him as DLC, so those who like him buy him. This is a failure idea and would cause much uproar, but hey, I thought this in 30 seconds.

Smash is more than just about seeing or not seeing X or Y character in the game because they deserve it or aren't popular or whatever. Some people would just appreciate another character to fight against or to use or master. Not all of America likes Sonic and not all of Japan hates him, and same goes with other characters too.

It's kind of unrelated, but some people were making a big deal about not having both Darth Vader and Yoda on the same game disc (each was a PS3 and 360 version exclusive, respectively) and were a little pissed to find out that you had to download the other character and pay (as far as I know). So it's not really a good idea.

 

[Twilght Link]

They should give link his jump attack for b^ when he's in the air and great spin for b^ when he's on the ground. I'm suprised his jump attack hasn't been implemented in some way. Geat spin could never be used in the air in zelda games(they were never really jump orientated) jump attack just makes more sense imo (it even has the word jump). Also great spin should just be one very large spin slash, not a series of slashes. Only in windwaker when tlink learned the hurricane spin do i recall a link having multiple spins( tlink should keep his b^ but have its range increased)

 

[mantlecore77]

may be an RPG mode

THAT WOULD BE EPIC

You've kinda got the right idea...

I'm thinking of an dventure like DK64 or Banjo-Kazooie/tooie/mario 64 style. Many different worlda re available, and certain things in each world must be accomplished... And you described Princess Peach's Castle just how I imagined it, and the inside being explorable as well, but some of the areas wuld be cut/locked, and the paintings wouldn't be portals....

So answering your question, a 'unique' adventure for each character is what I'm going for. Like when I mentioned Whispy Woods, you begin the world as Kirby, but you can exit it to go to the main world that connects them all or whatever. Each character will be required for at least one thing in each worlds, again with the whispy woods example, the cannon I mentioned in the middle of a clearing--a lot of characters are able to light the fuse at the other end of the forest--but none of them are fast enough to reach the cannon before it blows. Only Sonic is fast enough to get to the cannon after the fuse is lit. This is an example of neding all characters to preform different tasks in each level in order to fully complete it...

Alright, I see what you're saying... you're looking for in-depth adventure modes, not just little side stories..? I think I'm gonna edit my past post and then when I'm done post my final ideas.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

ON ANOTHER NOTE:

Are there any new game mechanics that you people think would be good ideas to implement into the next Smash? I mean, buffing up the roster, new alternate costumes, and perhaps an altered adventure mode would be nice. But as far as gameplay goes, what could differentiate SSB4 from Brawl, Melee, and the rest?

I kinda like the floatyness of Brawl--at least, a little bit. I think that playin' melee over and over again throughout the years got a little old, and it's nice to play the same style of game but with a slightly differnt pitch. If you get what I mean. I, myself, have found the usefulness of dodging (air and spot) through Brawl, and if the gameplay was quickened just a little (taking away a bit of floatyness would probably do this), and it'd be perfect! I sometimes find myself a bit frustrated because when I want 2 spot-dodge or something, my character is a bit slow to respong, and gets punished for it. Am I just not doing something right, or are hte responses a bit slow at least sometimes??
anyway yea that's my two cents!

 

[flyinfilipino]

I kinda like the floatyness of Brawl--at least, a little bit. I think that playin' melee over and over again throughout the years got a little old, and it's nice to play the same style of game but with a slightly differnt pitch. If you get what I mean. I, myself, have found the usefulness of dodging (air and spot) through Brawl, and if the gameplay was quickened just a little (taking away a bit of floatyness would probably do this), and it'd be perfect! I sometimes find myself a bit frustrated because when I want 2 spot-dodge or something, my character is a bit slow to respong, and gets punished for it. Am I just not doing something right, or are hte responses a bit slow at least sometimes??
anyway yea that's my two cents!

I haven't really been able to play Brawl all that much, but how does multiple momentum-based air dodging compare to a single directional air dodge? (All the times I've played, it hasn't been necessary to dodge :/) Which would you keep for SSB4? And yeah, the floatiness is a little bothersome, it can be toned down.

Are there any more new game mechanics that could possibly make their way into Smash, or has the basic fighting formula reached its peak?

 

[Chief Mendez]

I agree with Spire on the Pokemon thing. Pika and Jiggs got the shaft. They could have recolored them like they did with the new additions. Most of the headgear things aren't that great anyway. The only good one, IMO, was in Melee, when Jiggs had the green headband o' awesomeness. Lol. Oh, and Pichu's boy scout outfit was pretty cool.

I'm actually a huge fan of the green "gangsta" Pikachu in Brawl.

Anyway, I actually prefer the accessories on the Pokemon. A blue or red Pikachu or Jigglypuff just wouldn't look right.

Also, if you want to complain about a character's color swaps, then complain about Sonic. I got the feeling that SEGA didn't want their baby's image ruined by having him anything but blue, so they just changed his bracelets and shoes.

Bah.

And with the upcoming release of Sonic and the Black Knight in 2009, will sonic have a sword in Smash 4?

anyway I am thinking Sonic could indeed have a possible sword, but this would mean he'd have to get a new moveset which I doubt he will get, and since he's 3rd party his chances aren't looking so good, but we can only hope.

This is a terrible idea. This line of "Sonic Worlds" games is a terrible idea (Secret Rings, Black Knight).

I actually really like Sonic as he is, except for a few small things. If he comes back in the next game, Ninty needs to keep SEGA's weird perversions of the franchise as far from the game as possible.

People do want these characters. Go to starmen.net and some other sites and you'll see that people have been wanting these characters in since it was possible.

The people at starmen.net would replace the entire roster with Mr. Saturns is they could.

My stance on this topic is pretty simple: if the developers could use the time and resources they'd spend on making identically-playing "alts" of every character making even one NEW character, I'd rather them do that.

But if all the new characters are set, and for whatever reason they can't add in any more actual characters, then alts are a good idea.

However it should be noted that the latter case is highly unlikely.

It's kind of unrelated, but some people were making a big deal about not having both Darth Vader and Yoda on the same game disc (each was a PS3 and 360 version exclusive, respectively) and were a little pissed to find out that you had to download the other character and pay (as far as I know). So it's not really a good idea.

No, you can't download them.

And the idea behind this (leaving Sonic out of the Japanese version, in DLC format) is just terrible. The devs would still spend time making the character, right? So by leaving him out, you'd just be angering the fans in Japan who do like Sonic.

And for those who dont--they can get over it. I know I personally couldn't care less if about half the Brawl roster was cut and replaced by other characters. But that's just a personal preference.

---

EDIT - Brawl's air dodge mechanic is better than Melee's. Certain people would have you believe otherwise, but they're just sore because they can't magically float across the stage on a wave of cocaine dash.

The only thing they could maybe change is--if you're falling straight down, and you tilt the control stick up and tap R, you stop falling as you air dodge. Your momentum would be stopped, then begin to build after the dodge ends.

You could do this as you're moving in any direction, but it'd be impossible to wavedash with it, as the "stall dodge" doesn't move you at all, it just stops you. So if Meta Dsmashes you straight out of the left of the arena, a skilled player could quickly tap > + R to stall their momentum and get back on the stage.

Or if you see Ike about to Aether your *** as you fall down to the level, you could stall yourself as he does it, letting him whiff right past you.

 

[F3ma Ch33f]

I'd like to see Django from the Boktai series in, but it'll never have a shot if Konami doesn't make another Boktai game.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I'd like to see Django from the Boktai series in, but it'll never have a shot if Konami doesn't make another Boktai game.

Lunar Knights?

I don't think it'd make a difference even if they did make a Boktai 4. Snake's in, and after him the next pick would be/should be Simon, so Django (awesome as he is) doesn't have much chance.

 

[Big-Cat]

My stance on this topic is pretty simple: if the developers could use the time and resources they'd spend on making identically-playing "alts" of every character making even one NEW character, I'd rather them do that.

But if all the new characters are set, and for whatever reason they can't add in any more actual characters, then alts are a good idea.

That sounds about right to me. Now that I think about it, it's best to make the actual roster first and then the alts.

 

[mantlecore77]

Okay, random, but I'm REALLY curious...

(And this was probably brought up before, but I'm really lazy and don't feel like searching all 250+ pages)

What do you folks think an appropriate way of declonificating Ganondorf would be?

 

[Chief Mendez]

Okay, random, but I'm REALLY curious...

(And this was probably brought up before, but I'm really lazy and don't feel like searching all 250+ pages)

What do you folks think an appropriate way of declonificating Ganondorf would be?

Three words: Trident of Power.

Almost everyone else will say "give him the Sage's Blade", but c'mon--he used it in one game, and it doesn't suit him--the King of Evil--anyway. Also SSB4 Ganon won't be TP Ganon, so he wouldn't be doing that anyways.

Really though, it depends on what he fights with in the next Zelda game. If it's a sword, then it'd probably be most appropriate for him to fight with that in SSB4...but in that case he'll clash with Ike for the position of "heavy sword user".

Anyway, Trident for the win. :embarrass

 

[mantlecore77]

Three words: Trident of Power.

Agreed.
But how would it be applied?
Special moves? Standard attacks? Smashes? What?

 

[Chief Mendez]

Agreed.
But how would it be applied?
Special moves? Standard attacks? Smashes? What?

Pretty much everything, really. It'd be his weapon that he'd use for most of his attacks, just like Ike and Marth, Meta and Link.

Unless you were asking for a specific moveset(?), which I could probably fashion, but don't really feel like doing right now.

 

[teen-robot]

i think he would mostly use magic for specials...
and just brute power for A-attacks

and btw don't you think ganon should just put of his armor ?
so he would be waaaaay faster!?!

and what about classic ganon? (http://www.zelda-gc.com/alttp/artworks/ganon.jpg )
he would be like ...great and wouldn't fit in there... so....8xD ignore me
he would have a great moveset
and he would use the great best power of the triforce XD
or just toon ganon woudl also be great
he would fight using 2 swordsand be fasterthen ganondorf

 

[mantlecore77]

Pretty much everything, really. It'd be his weapon that he'd use for most of his attacks, just like Ike and Marth, Meta and Link.

Unless you were asking for a specific moveset(?), which I could probably fashion, but don't really feel like doing right now.

No not really, I'm just looking for people with random suggestions/ideas.
The Trident would probably really make him an interesting fighter though, with his sheer power and newfound range.

The reason I asked such a random question is because I was overlooking this thread when the whole decloning of Wolf/Falco's special abilties came up and a lightbulb clicked, asking "Hey, why the hell is Ganondorf still reflecting Falcon's abilities? Must... discuss... ideas..."

 

[mantlecore77]

i think he would mostly use magic for specials...
and just brute power for A-attacks

and btw don't you think ganon should just put of his armor ?
so he would be waaaaay faster!?!

That really wouldn't make him GANONDORF though... the huge, hulking dark lord.
Unless you've seen Ganondorf without his armor, I don't see this working well without disappointing fans.

 

[Chief Mendez]

The reason I asked such a random question is because I was overlooking this thread when the whole decloning of Wolf/Falco's special abilties came up and a lightbulb clicked, asking "Hey, why the hell is Ganondorf still reflecting Falcon's abilities? Must... discuss... ideas..."

Well, we all expected him to get an original moveset in Brawl (really, there wasn't a single member on here that actually thought otherwise), and that didn't happen. So by now, the topic's generally been covered, but yeah, I know how you feel.

Also, the edit button's feelings have been hurt by your obvious neglect.

Spoiler

(Double-posting is bad/use the edit feature.)

 

[SmashChu]

Are there any new game mechanics that you people think would be good ideas to implement into the next Smash? I mean, buffing up the roster, new alternate costumes, and perhaps an altered adventure mode would be nice. But as far as gameplay goes, what could differentiate SSB4 from Brawl, Melee, and the rest?

A few small thoughts
-Critical Hits. I'm sure the "tourney guys" will hate it, but it would add to the chaoticness of Smash
-6 player battles
-Tag team of some kind. Like Soul Caliber having multiple characters on your line up.
-Air grabs. It's an odd idea, but simply put, you can grab people in the air and do air throws (only forward and back). Gives you more air options.

Since many people are talking about how"x character isn't gonna be in because x character isn't popular in x", what about this: Sonic isn't popular in Japan, so make him America only. Japan would get him as DLC, so those who like him buy him. This is a failure idea and would cause much uproar, but hey, I thought this in 30 seconds.

Not much point. He'd already be in the game, so why should people go online JUST to get him.

That sounds about right to me. Now that I think about it, it's best to make the actual roster first and then the alts.

Again, if they are going that root, why not add a clone. Same work for a bigger reward.

Okay, random, but I'm REALLY curious...
What do you folks think an appropriate way of declonificating Ganondorf would be?

OK, here's the truth. There are no clones in Brawl. "But Smashchu" you say "There clones in Brawl. There are characters who are almost exactly the same". But still, they are not clone, and I'll explain it. What a clone is a character who share a model of another character and the only difference between the two is the property of the moves. The only character with a different move in Melee (from the clone bracket of course) was Ganondorf's forward air.

In Brawl, the characters are all diverse enough to not be considered clones. The closest character is Toon Link, so let's look at him. His Forward, back, and standard air are all different, and so is his up smash and all his throws. As you can see, he is pretty much a different character. In Ganondorf case, he has a few similar moves, but a good number of moves are different.His forward and down tilt, his up smash are different (and his basic A) and his forward special is extremely different.He is a unique character, not to mention vastly different in his feel since Melee.

One of the reasons characters are similar to others is becuase it makes the most sence. Falco should, logically, fight like Fox. So they should have similar moves. Lucas and Ness are pretty much the same guy from their game. But why Ganondorf. Well, logically, Ganondorf would use the Triforce of power to, well, beef up his own strength rather then make him a better swordsmen. Heck, in OoT, he didn't even wield a sword.

However, if I were to suggest ways to make him more unique, it would be change some of the special moves. They fit the personality well, but they seem to similar to Capt. Falcon's.

 

[Chief Mendez]

A few small thoughts
-Critical Hits. I'm sure the "tourney guys" will hate it, but it would add to the chaoticness of Smash
-6 player battles
-Tag team of some kind. Like Soul Caliber having multiple characters on your line up.
-Air grabs. It's an odd idea, but simply put, you can grab people in the air and do air throws (only forward and back). Gives you more air options.

Critical Hits would be fine, so long as they're really low (like, 1/100 chance), and can be toggled on/off, and are always off in random online matches.

6 player battles would require at least two people to use Wiimotes, as there are only 4 GCN ports. It would also only really work on huge maps like New Pork or Hyrule Temple--otherwise it's just too much information to reasonably process. Also the camera would have to work a lot harder...

Tags have been covered a lot throughout this thread. Some searching would do you good.

Air grabs as well. Generally, I think the best idea that's been covered in here is that each character would have a specific air-grab and a single "air throw". For example, Ganondorf might reach up above him when in the air, and if he grabs you, he whips you downwards. Mario, however, grabs straight ahead, and tosses you upwards. Zamus would grapple with her whip at a diagonally-down angle, then spin you around her, creating a sort of "human shield", then release you once she hits the ground.

OK, here's the truth. There are no clones in Brawl. "But Smashchu" you say "There clones in Brawl. There are characters who are almost exactly the same". But still, they are not clone, and I'll explain it. What a clone is a character who share a model of another character and the only difference between the two is the property of the moves. The only character with a different move in Melee (from the clone bracket of course) was Ganondorf's forward air.

In Brawl, the characters are all diverse enough to not be considered clones. The closest character is Toon Link, so let's look at him. His Forward, back, and standard air are all different, and so is his up smash and all his throws. As you can see, he is pretty much a different character. In Ganondorf case, he has a few similar moves, but a good number of moves are different.His forward and down tilt, his up smash are different (and his basic A) and his forward special is extremely different.He is a unique character, not to mention vastly different in his feel since Melee.

One of the reasons characters are similar to others is becuase it makes the most sence. Falco should, logically, fight like Fox. So they should have similar moves. Lucas and Ness are pretty much the same guy from their game. But why Ganondorf. Well, logically, Ganondorf would use the Triforce of power to, well, beef up his own strength rather then make him a better swordsmen. Heck, in OoT, he didn't even wield a sword.

While I agree with your stance about clones, I take exception with Ganondorf.

Even if the moveset does sort of suit him, he's still the primary antagonist in Nintendo's second biggest series. It feels innately wrong for him to take his moves from the primary character in one of Nintendo's least-popular franchises.

Also, Ocarina of Time is one (old by now) game. And he did in fact use a sword in that, anyways.

Spoiler

Two when he transformed, and a trident as Phantom Ganon.

The guy's always fought with a weapon in his games of origin, which makes the pill even tougher to swallow.

 

[mantlecore77]

However, if I were to suggest ways to make him more unique, it would be change some of the special moves. They fit the personality well, but they seem to similar to Capt. Falcon's.

This is basically what I was getting at.
I agree with you he's not TOTALLY IDENTICAL. But the reference of a "clone" in SSB is not a specific clone, more of a vague description of someone who has very similar playstyle and moves to others.
Ganondorf is a unique character from the Legend of Zelda universe. Captain Falcon is a unique character from the F-Zero universe. However, Ganondorf's special moves were inevidably BASED on Captain Falcon's 3/4 special moves:

Captain Falcon...Ganondorf
Falcon Punch ...Warlock Punch
Falcon Kick ...Wizard's Foot
Falcon Dive ...Dark Dive

There are obvious parallels in the names of the moves themselves, but mostly in the IDEA of the moves... the punches are lag-filled extrodinarily powerful one-hit potential KO attacks, the kicks both cover a long area of ground and dive down in the air, and the Dive attacks both project Captain & Ganondorf higher into the air, where the grab their opponent and release them with powerful blasts.
You know all this, so I'm gonna let the facts go. And I know what you mean: all their attacks have different properties and power, but nevertheless, all I'm saying is that Ganondorf SHOULD have an almost... if not almost them completely... different moveset than Captain Falcon.

And about the sword, I'll let Chief Mendez enlighten you with his creative three word combo on what Ganon SHOULD hold as a weapon instead of his two-time appearance sword.
Or you could just look up at our previous discussion.
EDIT: Trident.

EDIT: I posted the same time as Chief, dammit. I hate myself.

 

[Chief Mendez]

EDIT: I posted the same time as Chief, dammit. I hate myself.

Hey, hey, don't beat yourself up. I was a full minute ahead of you--don't worry, I'm still waaay out of your league.

Spoiler

EDIT - No sarcasm was used in this post.

 

[darkserenade]

What about replacing Ganondorf with Manfred?http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711794

 

[darkserenade]

Sorry! I double posted by accident!

 

[teen-robot]

OMG LOLi am your father!

 

[Chief Mendez]

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711794

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711809

...Srsly tho.

 

[flyinfilipino]

How do we know that Captain Falcon's moves weren't based on Ganondorf's?

Spoiler

Yeah, Falcon came first.

 

[darkserenade]

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711809

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711818

...

 

[SmashChu]

Critical Hits would be fine, so long as they're really low (like, 1/100 chance), and can be toggled on/off, and are always off in random online matches.

Then what is the point of them. 1/100 is way to small and they should probably be on for online matches. The point of having them is so they get used. Turning them off would be ok, but there should also be a character based around critical hits.

6 player battles would require at least two people to use Wiimotes, as there are only 4 GCN ports. It would also only really work on huge maps like New Pork or Hyrule Temple--otherwise it's just too much information to reasonably process. Also the camera would have to work a lot harder...

1)Something wrong with the Wiimote (You can have Nunchucks or classic controllers)
2)The camera wouldn't be forced to the limits. The stage has a set size so the camera wont go beyond that, and it will usually stay where the fight is. It will only become problematic if people are flying left and right (which happens anyway).

Tags have been covered a lot throughout this thread. Some searching would do you good.

I know. Just an idea I want to see.

Air grabs as well. Generally, I think the best idea that's been covered in here is that each character would have a specific air-grab and a single "air throw". For example, Ganondorf might reach up above him when in the air, and if he grabs you, he whips you downwards. Mario, however, grabs straight ahead, and tosses you upwards. Zamus would grapple with her whip at a diagonally-down angle, then spin you around her, creating a sort of "human shield", then release you once she hits the ground.

Don't think those are as good for combat. The point is to have them work like throws, so the properties shouldn't change between chancters. That's not to say they can't be unique (i.e. ZSS does the whip thing).

While I agree with your stance about clones, I take exception with Ganondorf.

Even if the moveset does sort of suit him, he's still the primary antagonist in Nintendo's second biggest series. It feels innately wrong for him to take his moves from the primary character in one of Nintendo's least-popular franchises.

Isn't that kind of a double standard. If the moveset works, why should it be changed. (Also, F-Zero isn't "least popular" by far. It still ranks higher then Earthbound, Fire Emblem and a lot of the Minor Nintendo franchises). If it works, it works.

Also, Ocarina of Time is one (old by now) game. And he did in fact use a sword in that, anyways.

Spoiler

Two when he transformed, and a trident as Phantom Ganon.

The guy's always fought with a weapon in his games of origin, which makes the pill even tougher to swallow.

Well, he started in OoT. Also, Ganon used those weapons, not Ganondorf (as they are two very different forms).

Of course, him wielding a weapon isn't a necessity.

Spoiler

In Twilight Princess, a lot of his fighting was kicks and punches. He probably had just as many hand-to-hand attacks as he did sword.

Not to mention, the weapon needs to suit him. He's a brute, so a tiny little sword does not work as well as a broadsword would.

 

[Snowstalker]

My roster:

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Toad
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K. Rool
Yoshi
Wario
Captian Syrup
Link
Zelda/Shiek
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Toon Zelda/Tetra
New character from Wii exclusive Zelda
Samus
Ridley
Pit
Ice Climbers
R.O.B
Little Mac
Kirby
King Dedede
Meta Knight
Captian Olimar
Animal Crosser
Stafy
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Leon
Captian Falcon
Black Shadow
Pikachu
Mewtwo
Deoxys
5th gen Pokemon
Jigglypuff
Blastoise
Ness
Paula
Lucas
Marth
Ike or a new FE lord
Isaac
Mr. Game & Watch
Sukapon
Snake
Sonic
Megaman
Pacman

 

[mantlecore77]

Snow, you list is actually really good.
I'm gonna put a dream team list up here soon as soon as I can thnk of good arguements to back up the cheesy characters.

 

[Chief Mendez]

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711818

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711830

Then what is the point of them. 1/100 is way to small and they should probably be on for online matches. The point of having them is so they get used. Turning them off would be ok, but there should also be a character based around critical hits.

They can still be used in online matches, just not the random, anonymous ones. If it's your friends, it doesn't matter, but it's aggravating enough when random online matches are won or lost due to a random item spawn or some jackhole picking Skyworld.

And a character based around critical hits sounds...well, I don't think I'd be for it, anyway.

1)Something wrong with the Wiimote (You can have Nunchucks or classic controllers)
2)The camera wouldn't be forced to the limits. The stage has a set size so the camera wont go beyond that, and it will usually stay where the fight is. It will only become problematic if people are flying left and right (which happens anyway).

Speaking personally, I hate using the Wiimote, Nunchuk combo, or Classic for Brawl. But that's just me, and if I had to use them, I could get used to doing so.

The camera would be a problem. It gets tougher to play accurately on, say, Hyrule Temple, if two players are fighting on opposite sides of the level, as it's harder to see what's going on. Now imagine how far the camer would have to pan out if there are fights taking place on the extreme left, right, and bottom of the level. It would still work, and I am for the idea (sorry if it seemed like I wasn't), but it's not really an ideal situation, methinks (a DS version could do this way better, though).

Isn't that kind of a double standard. If the moveset works, why should it be changed. (Also, F-Zero isn't "least popular" by far. It still ranks higher then Earthbound, Fire Emblem and a lot of the Minor Nintendo franchises). If it works, it works.

No, because like you said: it makes sense for most "clones" to be like that: Falco Fox and Wolf are all very similar characters.

But a futuristic racer/bounty hunter and a medieval battle mage are not as similar.

Even if it "works", it's not ideal.

Well, he started in OoT. Also, Ganon used those weapons, not Ganondorf (as they are two very different forms).

I don't know what you mean by "started in OoT".

And the human Ganon didn't use a sword in OoT, that's true. But he had one in the Spaceworld 2000 trailer, as well as in one of Melee's victory poses it doesn't matter, because Ocarina is one example of him--the only one in which he doesn't fight with a sword.

Seriously, there are many many many more Zelda games than just OoT and TP. Ganondorf fights with weapons, not his hands in the vast majority of games he appears in.

 

[Knyaguy]

@ Snow

O I c what u did thar, Blastoise has no chance of being a PC! Even though he is my fav pokemon, he hasn't done anythning to be a PC in a smash game. Not to mention Leon before Krystal. Other than those I like the roster.

 

[darkserenade]

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711853

Seriously though... Damon Gant looks and acts exactly like Ganondorf! It freaks me out! ..Anyway, Snow, your roster was good. Toad and Blastoise don't seem very possible, though.

Edit:At the Chief:http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711864

 

[frdagaa]

Obviously the removal of random tripping. I also would like some more moves that have advantages beyond just their hitting. Reflectors are the classic example, though Brawl's added moves that auto-trip. There are a lot of possibilities with this; moves that prevent the opponent from shielding for a certain amount of time, something like that.

Also an improved stage builder would be great. It's possibly my favorite Brawl feature.

 

[Chief Mendez]

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711853

Seriously though... Damon Gant looks and acts exactly like Ganondorf! It freaks me out!

(Damon Gant is not amused.)​

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711864

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711872

I also would like some more moves that have advantages beyond just their hitting. Reflectors are the classic example, though Brawl's added moves that auto-trip. There are a lot of possibilities with this; moves that prevent the opponent from shielding for a certain amount of time, something like that.

Or moves (especially certain character's Dtilts) that do nothing but trip--no damage or knockback whatsoever.

Certain specials for certain characters *coughviewtifuljoecough* could also slow down time, which would be a very mult-purpose tool for spot-dodging and such.

 

[darkserenade]

(Damon Gant is not amused.)​

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711872

(Kristoph Gavin is not amused.)

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711888

 

[Chief Mendez]

(Kristoph Gavin is not amused.)

(Damon Gant is irritated to see an inferior character not being amused by his very presence.)​

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711886

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711887

 

[darkserenade]

(Damon Gant is irritated to see an inferior character not being amused by his very presence.)​

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711887

(Kristoph using the art of sarcasm.)

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711901

 

[Chief Mendez]

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711895

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2711899

Until somebody else brings something else, up, we have nothing to talk about--so this can in no way be interpreted as spam, amirite?