[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[AetherEch0s]

I wouldnt go as far as to say that Dark Dawn even has a story. Its like the first 5 minutes of the PROLOGUE of an rpg. It makes more plotholes and answers nothing. And some people call Brawl unfinished. If Goldensun was Book1 and Goldensun:TLA was Book2, Dark Dawn is like 4 pages of Chapter1 in book 3. It just seemed so short even though i know it took hours.

 

[•Col•]

maybe they should expand the number of players at any one time to 6 or 8.

3 on 3 and 4 on 4 would be interesting.

Since the Cafe is rumored to be able to stream games to the controllers... 6-8 player battles might actually be feasible... O.o

Not sure if want......

 

[AetherEch0s]

6-8 Players would be fine. The screen would be cluttered and it would be worse than Brawl's already horrendous 4 player free for all online, but thats just the gimmick that Sakurai would hop on board for. EXPECT IT. Plus, it wont affect any of the real players anyway, because we only do 1 vs 1 on a flat stage anyway.

 

[Steam]

6-8 Players would be fine. The screen would be cluttered and it would be worse than Brawl's already horrendous 4 player free for all online, but thats just the gimmick that Sakurai would hop on board for. EXPECT IT. Plus, it wont affect any of the real players anyway, because we only do 1 vs 1 on a flat stage anyway.

real players don't only do flat stages.

 

[AetherEch0s]

real players don't only do flat stages.

I was obviously being sarcastic. Thats not real players, its elitists.

 

[Arcadenik]

I wouldnt go as far as to say that Dark Dawn even has a story. Its like the first 5 minutes of the PROLOGUE of an rpg. It makes more plotholes and answers nothing. And some people call Brawl unfinished. If Goldensun was Book1 and Goldensun:TLA was Book2, Dark Dawn is like 4 pages of Chapter1 in book 3. It just seemed so short even though i know it took hours.

Umm... you know... the way those Sun Saga books laid out the whole story.

Basic plot of Golden Sun is this: Isaac's party trying to stop Felix's party from lighting Mercury/Venus lighthouses and failing.

Basic plot of Golden Sun is this: Felix's party successfully lighting Jupiter/Mars lighthouses with the help of Isaac's party.

Of course, they are going to beef up their stories with off-topic plot turns and twists along the way. Rose-tinted glasses off, please. They aren't so different from Dark Dawn.

 

[AetherEch0s]

Dark Dawn had no noticeable plot twists or interrelated scenarios. You could see from a mile away that the enemy was using you for their plots, because it happened it the other games. I actually expected Kraden to pop up being able to use Dark Psynergy and just pretend he never had the need to before, and in the end be the final boss, but no, nothing like that. His dialogue sure pointed toward something like that, even to the point that he could have passed for a different person. All in all it was fairly bland compared to the other 2 games, like i said, as though it was the prologue to a bigger game, which it technically is, but they could have held off on it for a few months to make it longer and atleast feel complete as a single game.

 

[Weyard]

Umm... you know... the way those Sun Saga books laid out the whole story.

Basic plot of Golden Sun is this: Isaac's party trying to stop Felix's party from lighting Mercury/Venus lighthouses and failing.

Basic plot of Golden Sun is this: Felix's party successfully lighting Jupiter/Mars lighthouses with the help of Isaac's party.

Of course, they are going to beef up their stories with off-topic plot turns and twists along the way. Rose-tinted glasses off, please. They aren't so different from Dark Dawn.

The amount and quality of the content varies heavily with each game.
Gs1's characters are generally more well recieved and although shorter than TLA, the gameplay seems to be more refined.
TLA is the longest game.
DD is the shortest with little to no story progression. They are merely going to get the feather and get caught up in a few things along the way. The entire game seemingly takes place over a few weeks, while TLA and GS1 are both over a year long.

In terms of scale, DD isn't really a full book.

 

[AetherEch0s]

like i said its like an unifinished prologue at best.

 

[Steam]

I was obviously being sarcastic. Thats not real players, its scrubs.

^that IMO^

 

[Arcadenik]

The amount and quality of the content varies heavily with each game.
Gs1's characters are generally more well recieved and although shorter than TLA, the gameplay seems to be more refined.
TLA is the longest game.
DD is the shortest with little to no story progression. They are merely going to get the feather and get caught up in a few things along the way. The entire game seemingly takes place over a few weeks, while TLA and GS1 are both over a year long.

In terms of scale, DD isn't really a full book.

A full book does not require a year-long journey. You make it sound like Isaac's and Felix's parties never got caught up in other things along the way, which is untrue.

It is so stupid to be using the "playtime-length" or "story-length" as a reason to support/oppose a character's inclusion. I mean, really?!?! Just because Matthew's game was short playtime-wise and/or story-wise does not make him any less deserving than Isaac or Felix.

 

[AetherEch0s]

^that IMO^

lol yeah thats better.

 

[AetherEch0s]

A full book does not require a year-long journey. You make it sound like Isaac's and Felix's parties never got caught up in other things along the way, which is untrue.

It is so stupid to be using the "playtime-length" or "story-length" as a reason to support/oppose a character's inclusion. I mean, really?!?! Just because Matthew's game was short playtime-wise and/or story-wise does not make him any less deserving than Isaac or Felix.

Still, Isaac completed his quest, Felix completed his quest, Matthew found the feather then got dragged along, never accomplishing his goal. It would be a more fitting plotline to some other series, it just seems short and lackluster compared to the other games in the series. I think it would have done better had they delayed it a while and finished up more the "sequel" and put them together in one game.

 

[AetherEch0s]

anyone seen this yet?
http://twitpic.com/55wqbk

Proof that Sakurai will atleast be there, he posted it on his twitter. Im not familiar with the terms, whether Exhibits Only means he has an exhibit there or if its just the first level walking around pass.

also, this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgjES1oOTlc

i found this on youtube lol

Apparently someone recorded during one of the dev conferences. As you can see, they are showcasing the Cafe (or atleast its dev model which may change) to a group of people. Its sitting there, and you can see it turned on, and there are images of it and the controller on the projection screen. It matches the black console on that one leaked dev advertisement a few weeks back.

 

[augustoflores]

what the heck are you people still doing awake!? it's 2 in the morn!
anyways, weyard... are you the same weyard from deviantart? just curious...

@Ech0... no, i haven't. i refuse to defect to twitter... it is evil time-killing demon birdy bird, that occasionally gives some cool info from cool people... but there are people like you who can give me that info... yea!

one reason these guys are crunching up numbers is because they don't know how to multi-quote.
also... occasionally, they sometimes forget that there is a edit button... not pointing fingers ^.^

 

[AetherEch0s]

i edit posts sometimes, but its usually a waste of time.

I dont use twitter either, i just found the image somewhere and after looking around for it, found it there.

and yeah, hes from DA, and so am i
aetherech0s.deviantart.com

 

[augustoflores]

left you a comment on yer page...

just saw that video... that recorder... was that a mole? that guy/girl should be banned from all nintendo activity. i don't care if we get a peek... we must wait like good little boys and girls. e3 is just around the corner... well... it is now.

watching konami pre e3... omg, i didn't even know konami has frogger... maybe i did one time but i didn't right now (i have memory problems)

 

[ChronoBound]

anyone seen this yet?

Proof that Sakurai will atleast be there, he posted it on his twitter. Im not familiar with the terms, whether Exhibits Only means he has an exhibit there or if its just the first level walking around pass.

also, this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgjES1oOTlc

i found this on youtube lol

Apparently someone recorded during one of the dev conferences. As you can see, they are showcasing the Cafe (or atleast its dev model which may change) to a group of people. Its sitting there, and you can see it turned on, and there are images of it and the controller on the projection screen. It matches the black console on that one leaked dev advertisement a few weeks back.

Fake leaked video is fake. We won't be seeing anything about the Cafe until Tuesday.

Also, IGN has said that they are going to have live blogs for the evenings on Tuesday and Wednesday. Hmmm, I guess Nintendo has more planned past their pre-E3 conference.

Sakurai is also going to E3. Hmmm. All aboard the hype train, next stop: broken hopes and dreams.

Seriously, if Smash 4 were to be unveiled in less than a week, I am probably not going to be posting here due the fact that anything I will type will probably be lost in the deluge of stupid posts.

Also, I think Sakurai feels the same way I do:

Sakurai
I felt that a large premise of the project was that this was not a series that would continue indefinitely. After all, it wasn’t possible to keep on increasing the characters that are entitled to take the field in Smash Bros. And even if you try to utilize new familiar characters that resonate with the fans, you can’t get each and every gamer to be happy. Just like its predecessor then, we decided to design the game as if it was the last one in the series.

 

[AetherEch0s]

How can you determine it is fake? It was supposedly from a 3rd party developers conference, NOT E3. It would have been recorded weeks ago, or possibly months ago when Nintendo showcased it to 3rd party developers.
UPDATE: Yeah its fake. http://wii2blog.com/project-cafe-footage-is-definitely-fake/
Sorry about that.

Yes, some may have had their dreams crushed, but other people will have their dream characters included. Sakurai knows what he did wrong last time, and will do what he can to make this one right.

Its been stupid, and will be stupid any where that SSB is discussed. It does get worse when a new title is on the way, but the discussions are usually fun none-the-less. Its fun to speculate and laugh at those wild expectations.

And yet he felt the same way with Melee, guess he changed his mind. Nintendo will eventually make another one, with or without Sakurai. Im sure he will find the same inspiration he found for Brawl and join in, but hopefully he will make the game for us, and make it how we want, and not himself and his vision of it.

 

[ChronoBound]

How can you determine it is fake? It was supposedly from a 3rd party developers conference, NOT E3. It would have been recorded weeks ago, or possibly months ago when Nintendo showcased it to 3rd party developers.

Yes, your dreams might have been crushed, but other people will have their dream characters included. Sakurai knows what he did wrong last time, and will do what he can to make this one right.

Its been stupid, and will be stupid any where that SSB is discussed. It does get worse when a new title is on the way, but the discussions are usually fun none-the-less. Its fun to speculate and laugh at those with wild dreams. Wasnt it fun last time? Or were you one of the people that expected Geno and Shadow to make it?

And yet he felt the same way with Melee, guess he changed his mind. Nintendo will eventually make another one, with or without Sakurai. Im sure he will find the same inspiration he found for Brawl, but will take more care in the fan service aspects of it.

I am not going to get into why its fake. My time is too precious for that. Just wait another four days to see the real deal.

As to dreams being crushed, I was not talking about my own, I was talking about people in general who want Smash 4 to be unveiled this year.

As to one of the people wanting Geno and Shadow, lol. I am actually the guy who rails on the people who want Geno and Shadow. If you have any knowledge of my history of posts, you would know that I have said that Brawl was a worthy follow-up to Melee.

The only thing that gets worse for Smash Bros. from installment to installment is the IQ and sanity of the fanbase. Seriously, it was a massive drop from the pre-Melee roster days of speculation to the pre-Brawl speculation days to the pre-Smash 4 days. This is part of the reason why I am bailing out of the Smash Bros. fandom after Smash 4. I am tired of all the exposure to idiots who burped out something on a keyboard and somehow think its brilliant. Heck, we now have a few regular posters for this thread who do not even have proper grammar let alone a non-terrible grasp on Smash Bros. discussion.

 

[AetherEch0s]

I am not going to get into why its fake. My time is too precious for that. Just wait another four days to see the real deal.

As to dreams being crushed, I was not talking about my own, I was talking about people in general who want Smash 4 to be unveiled this year.

As to one of the people wanting Geno and Shadow, lol. I am actually the guy who rails on the people who want Geno and Shadow. If you have any knowledge of my history of posts, you would know that I have said that Brawl was a worthy follow-up to Melee.

The only thing that gets worse for Smash Bros. from installment to installment is the IQ and sanity of the fanbase. Seriously, it was a massive drop from the pre-Melee roster days of speculation to the pre-Brawl speculation days to the pre-Smash 4 days. This is part of the reason why I am bailing out of the Smash Bros. fandom after Smash 4. I am tired of all the exposure to idiots who burped out something on a keyboard and somehow think its brilliant. Heck, we now have a few regular posters for this thread who do not even have proper grammar let alone a non-terrible grasp on Smash Bros. discussion.

i edited my post, check it. I found where it was fake, and changed my wording a little, i think i sounded a little rude for some reason xD

 

[Weyard]

what the heck are you people still doing awake!? it's 2 in the morn!
anyways, weyard... are you the same weyard from deviantart? just curious...

@Ech0... no, i haven't. i refuse to defect to twitter... it is evil time-killing demon birdy bird, that occasionally gives some cool info from cool people... but there are people like you who can give me that info... yea!

one reason these guys are crunching up numbers is because they don't know how to multi-quote.
also... occasionally, they sometimes forget that there is a edit button... not pointing fingers ^.^

My sleep schedule is messed up, so I'm up at this time. One major plus being that the 10 year old geno/toad fans have a bedtime, so they aren't here to ruin the conversation. The main difference being that the arguments occurring in this timeframe stem from opposing beliefs rather than sheer stupidity.

If you mean http://weyard.deviantart.com/, then yes, that is me. I think I've saw you on there now that I think about it lol.

I followed Pokexperto's twitter back when Pokemon Black/White was being leaked, but otherwise I avoid it if at all possible.

 

[Starphoenix]

I'm with Chronobound, after Smash 4 I'll be finished with the community. Although I enjoy the inclusion of Solid Snake and Sonic The Hedgehog, but after third party characters became a possibility it's as though people just lost all realism. Hate to break it to people, but only about 5-6 characters even have the potential to be included.

Anyways, not that I even make much of a contribution most of the time. So I'll just jet.

 

[Jaklub]

The funny thing is that I rarely see the people you guys complain about.

 

[Weyard]

The funny thing is that I rarely see the people you guys complain about.

The community here seems to be of a little higher quality than most sites where SSB4 discussion would occur. Gamefaqs and IGN are horrible for example.

 

[Jaklub]

The community here seems to be of a little higher quality than most sites where SSB4 discussion would occur. Gamefaqs and IGN are horrible for example.

Maybe I should be thankful that I don't go there. Disregard my previous post, then.

 

[AetherEch0s]

I plan to stay around until release, or at least until the full roster is known. I used GameSpot, GameFaqs, IGN and BrawlCentral last year, other than BC, the rest were horrible.
Children making 10 topics a day about Sonic, Cloud, or Masterchief. It was some of the stupidest people iv ever seen in one place. Then Sonic ended up being confirmed one night, and it really hit the fan. Hate topics filled the entire board and trolls were everywhere. Little kids then assumed that since he made it, SURELY Shadow would soon follow. Even now, GameSpot is good for a laugh every now and then, but its still pretty bad as far as decent conversation goes.

I did enjoy the wait for the dojo updates. Every update they had a new stupid Sakurai quote to throw around and create a fad. That, and laughing at the hoards of people expecting character updates, only to see some worthless extra content. But every update had a memorable quote. "theres no time to ponder such things, as Link has just grabbed a smash ball" "hrrrrnggg gotta heft this thing" "up until now". They still toss them around on GameSpot today as a fad of sorts. Hopefully, Sakurai continues on with the updates once it gets farther into development. I probably look forward to the updates more than the game itself lol.

I think ill stay here this time though. Seems like other than the irrational fanboys, most of you can have decent conversations/debates. Even if we disagree on things, at least its intelligent conversation for the most part.

@ Jaklub
Go to GameSpot/GameFaqs and read some posts. Its the worst around as far as i know. Although IGN has the most trolls. http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/supersmashbros/forum.html?board_id=m-1-928518&pid=928518

 

[ChronoBound]

The community here seems to be of a little higher quality than most sites where SSB4 discussion would occur. Gamefaqs and IGN are horrible for example.

On GameFAQs at least I have seen some intelligent conversations. On IGN, the average Smash poster thinks Jigglypuff should be cut and half the roster should be Sonic's crappy friends. Really, the only two sites I use to talk about Smash Bros. are SmashBoards and GameFAQs.

 

[AetherEch0s]

my favorite was BrawlCentral, but after the release, it was changed to broader Nintendo fan forum, and now its just a videogame fan forum. Too little centralized discussions pretty much killed it now. Hardly nobody uses it.

I wish Sakurai would just open up a forum on the dojo site.

 

[Weyard]

On GameFAQs at least I have seen some intelligent conversations. On IGN, the average Smash poster thinks Jigglypuff should be cut and half the roster should be Sonic's crappy friends. Really, the only two sites I use to talk about Smash Bros. are SmashBoards and GameFAQs.

A lot of people use Gamefaqs/spot for trolling because it's so simple to just make a new account and jump straight in. It also attracts a lot of children because Gamespot is one of the most common gaming news sites. Partly due to that, I can't recall a time that I've ever saw an intelligent discussion in the Brawl section. Although I rarely visit it now. It might have improved a bit. But the there are still joke topics everywhere from what I can tell. Their Monster Hunter game specific forums are generally pretty good though.

Everyone on IGN also use double/triple accounts to back themselves up. Leading to further trolling. It isn't so much children there, as it is people looking to fulfill their daily trolling quota. You can't disagree with anyone either. It's a constant stream of cursing and umads so it's pointless to even try.

Brawl Central used to be pretty good, but I left it a little while before Brawl was released.

Oh and BrawlVault is pretty good as well, but its focused on hacking rather than normal discussion. People still just talk about Brawl in the general section though.

We probably need to get back on topic----


Anyone got a subject?

 

[ChronoBound]

my favorite was BrawlCentral, but after the release, it was changed to broader Nintendo fan forum, and now its just a videogame fan forum. Too little centralized discussions pretty much killed it now. Hardly nobody uses it.

I wish Sakurai would just open up a forum on the dojo site.

If Sakurai did that then every Smash fan will burp out their dream roster on that forum in the pitiful hopes of Sakurai reading it and thinking its somehow genius and morphing the entire game around some 10 year old's idea.

I don't think that will be done simply considering that Nintendo even shut down their own forums because they were starting to become too unmanageable.

A Smash-forum made by Sakurai himself would pretty much bring out the worst of every Smash community everywhere, and all the sensible posts would be lost in a sea of stupid.

 

[AetherEch0s]

What do you think Ganon's new moveset will be like? Im expecting a warlock special moveset with sword attacks for the A button. You know, he he should have been since Melee?

 

[AetherEch0s]

If Sakurai did that then every Smash fan will burp out their dream roster on that forum in the pitiful hopes of Sakurai reading it and thinking its somehow genius and morphing the entire game around some 10 year old's idea.

I don't think that will be done simply considering that Nintendo even shut down their own forums because they were starting to become too unmanageable.

A Smash-forum made by Sakurai himself would pretty much bring out the worst of every Smash community everywhere, and all the sensible posts would be lost in a sea of stupid.

Thus allowing all the sensible discussions to take place elsewhere, while the children are distracted by the official site. Flawless plan.

 

[Weyard]

If Sakurai did that then every Smash fan will burp out their dream roster on that forum in the pitiful hopes of Sakurai reading it and thinking its somehow genius and morphing the entire game around some 10 year old's idea.

I don't think that will be done simply considering that Nintendo even shut down their own forums because they were starting to become too unmanageable.

A Smash-forum made by Sakurai himself would pretty much bring out the worst of every Smash community everywhere, and all the sensible posts would be lost in a sea of stupid.

It would have to be constantly and heavily moderated for that to work. If it even did then.

 

[Weyard]

Thus allowing all the sensible discussions to take place elsewhere, while the children are distracted by the official site. Flawless plan.

That plan is just so crazy....it might just work

btw, how do you delete posts? Is it even possible?

 

[AetherEch0s]

As far as i know you cant. Its not like it matters. Theres already 2000+ pages here, and the pages go by so fast anyway nobody cares if you double post.

 

[refugee]

Well, the venue we use for our tournaments in my region doesn't have wifi; we try to get someone to bring a router but afaik we usually end up without one. I also wouldn't like the idea of going to a tournament with all your practice, and then setting up the game for there to be a patch that was implemented that changes some bugs and gameplay elements. Then you have no practice with a new patch you're forced to download on the spot. A tourney may even get interrupted by a patch that gets released.

I don't know, I just don't see smash as the kind of series that patches itself....

Well if patches happen you better get a router then. It works for every other fighter out there. If it's not going to work out for your group, well sucks to be in your group then.

 

[Barbasol]

I'd imagine tourneys would run on a defined patch so no one gets an advantage by a surprise update. You can usually decline a patch if the tourney is local so you dont need to update online.

EDIT:

But yeah, props to DLC. Every Smash so far has been short on time, can't imagine 4 will be any different. Everytime characters were cut.

 

[Gallowglass]

What do you think Ganon's new moveset will be like? Im expecting a warlock special moveset with sword attacks for the A button. You know, he he should have been since Melee?

I think Sakurai likes showing him with a sword but not using it. It's like, "I don't need a weapon to beat you." He has quite a bit of potential in moves looking through the series of games.

From OOT
Yellow energy ball
Reflecting arm swing
Dark cloud attack
Levitation (could be modified into a recovery)

In Wind Waker
He was very fast and agile with dual wield swords

In Twilight Princess
He could make barriers
He also uses a sword a lot
Possesion of people (e.g. Zelda)

As Ganon
In Zelda 1
He could shoot energy balls
Turn Invisible
Teleport

In Link to the Past
He had a Trident which could be thrown like a boomerang
call a ring of fire
Phase in and travel
Flaming Bats
Ground Stomp

 

[Thomas.]

Though I believe that adding more Sonic or Sega characters could turn out diasatrous, I do believe a good character would be a Sonic and Tails combo, much like Ice Climbers. The only reason I say this is because due to Sonic and Tails' teamwork in the genesis games and stuff like Sonic Heroes, I believe they could make a pretty nifty moveset for 'em. Plus I love Ice Climbers, and I don't think Sonic measures up as a standalone in Brawl. In my opinion of course. I'm sure he's great but I don't like hm all that much.