[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Kantrip]

By command grab, do you just mean a non grab attack grab, like Bowser's side b and others like that? I like the idea, and Kirby using it would be funny

 

[Big-Cat]

Yeah, that's what a command grab is. Basically, think of stuff like Zangief's SPD attacks and that's what a command grab is.

 

[Kantrip]

Alright, makes sense.

I was also thinking a character from the smash franchise should be included in the smash franchise, seeing as how it has unique characters to itself now that are of humanoid figure. Namely Tabuu.

 

[Shorts]

Has anyone ever thought of adding a character who's game is best played in the air? Some character with incredible glide abilities and is a beast in arial combat? I'm being vague to exactly what this person's moves would look like becuase I don't even really know. Or what about a character who's main stratagey is trap laying/"stat damaging" (like poisoning ect) I would really enjoy seeing someonem who plays entirely different. Like Olimar. He felt new.

 

[Dynamo68]

No AT is as far as I would care to see Knuckle Joe implemented in a Smash game. Why? Because he is just a random minor enemy in the Kirby games that happens to look cool. If he is a playable character they might as well make a goomba a playable character next. Also, what the heck are you talking about he is the only other character liked by fans? I seriously doubt that's true. For example, I like Gooey.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071211231353/kirby/en/images/d/d1/Trophy239.PNG

Ahem, dude. He's very popular among Kirby fans and that's a fact. A lot of people have even voted for him on a poll for who should be in SSB4.

Here's the results from the site regarding this:

11% (16) Gooey
52% (70) Knuckle Joe
10% (14) Adeleine
8% (12) Rick the Hamster
17% (23) Other
36% (49) None of the above

 

[Norm]

Tuesday *****es!!!!!!! think about it 4 days and we might have a new Smash Bros announced Ooooh So exciting.

 

[refugee]

Has anyone ever thought of adding a character who's game is best played in the air? Some character with incredible glide abilities and is a beast in arial combat? I'm being vague to exactly what this person's moves would look like becuase I don't even really know. Or what about a character who's main stratagey is trap laying/"stat damaging" (like poisoning ect) I would really enjoy seeing someonem who plays entirely different. Like Olimar. He felt new.

I think you're talking about Pit. Another character could be Balloon Fighter. Someone who could play entirely different would be Starfy since his games are mostly underwater.

 

[refugee]

Ahem, dude. He's very popular among Kirby fans and that's a fact. A lot of people have even voted for him on a poll for who should be in SSB4.

Here's the results from the site regarding this:

11% (16) Gooey
52% (70) Knuckle Joe
10% (14) Adeleine
8% (12) Rick the Hamster
17% (23) Other
36% (49) None of the above

You mean which Kirby character? Also, link? Still doesn't change the fact that his roles in the Kirby games are minor at best and therefore his appearance in Brawl should be like that. Have him as an enemy in adventure mode or return him as an AT. He shouldn't be a playable character though.

 

[augustoflores]

regarding playable characters:
the Kirby series is complete. the Pikmin series is complete. the Nintendo's Robot (Gyromite + Stack-Up) series is complete. the Ice Climbers series is complete. the Animal Crossing series is complete. the Yoshi series is complete. the Game & Watch series is complete.

there is to be no more characters added to these franchises as playable fighters. Are we done here?

 

[refugee]

regarding playable characters:
the Kirby series is complete. the Pikmin series is complete. the Nintendo's Robot (Gyromite + Stack-Up) series is complete. the Ice Climbers series is complete. the Animal Crossing series is complete. the Yoshi series is complete. the Game & Watch series is complete.

there is to be no more characters added to these franchises as playable fighters. Are we done here?

First off, who died and made you the director of the next SSB? Second, AC has no fighters, there is still a chance of a change of heart taking place and allowing the series to have a representative. Other then that, yeah I agree with you.

 

[Shorts]

Yeah well I too have a poll but that doesn't make what my results are concrete or even really important. My poll only reflects the opinions of SSSB4 thread goers on this website. virtually no one else has taken it. Prince fluff gets most votes on my 2011 poll.

 

[augustoflores]

that Animal Crossing bit was more of a haha moment for me. otherwise i would have said:

The Electroplankton series is complete. the Chibi-Robo series is complete. the Brain Age series is complete. the Excite Bike series is complete. the Art Style series is complete. the Nintendogs (+Cats) series is complete. the Pilot Wings series is complete. the steel diver series is complete. the Wii series is complete.

im kinda half hoping that Nintendo would use Lip to represent Puzzle League. they can completely oust the lip stick and integrate it into her moves... with tetris blocks falling at extreme speeds as her final smash.
but just my luck... hardly anyone even recognizes her.

 

[refugee]

that Animal Crossing bit was more of a haha moment for me. otherwise i would have said:

The Electroplankton series is complete. the Chibi-Robo series is complete. the Brain Age series is complete. the Excite Bike series is complete. the Art Style series is complete. the Nintendogs (+Cats) series is complete. the Pilot Wings series is complete. the steel diver series is complete. the Wii series is complete.

im kinda half hoping that Nintendo would use Lip to represent Puzzle League. they can completely oust the lip stick and integrate it into her moves... with tetris blocks falling at extreme speeds as her final smash.
but just my luck... hardly anyone even recognizes her.

I actually remember discussion about her before Brawl was released. Her flower is actually in the game if I'm not mistaken. She would be a unique addition if they did add her. The series is more accurately called Panel De Pon and is made by the same studio who made Fire emblem! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panel_de_Pon

And speaking of Chibi Robo, I for one would love if he was added. I can imagine him using a giant tooth brush to attack foes and swinging his plug. I am sure I can find a moveset for him. Also, a better reason would be to represent Skip http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_Ltd. However, Captain Rainbow would be a umm.. interesting character as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Rainbow

 

[augustoflores]

chibi-robo.... i'd prefer that they just pull an Animal Crossing and give us a cool Kitchen Island top for us to play on... i haven't played any chibi but i'd be a cool gimmick to have these massive humans using the kitchen island the way a normal family conducts their activity around the kitchen area.

 

[refugee]

chibi-robo.... i'd prefer that they just pull an Animal Crossing and give us a cool Kitchen Island top for us to play on... i haven't played any chibi but i'd be a cool gimmick to have these massive humans using the kitchen island the way a normal family conducts their activity around the kitchen area.

But Chibi Robo is such an awesome character. The closet thing to an actual ronbot in SSB is Samus and that's just when she is in her suit. Chibi Robo actually does a lot of stuff that could easily give him a unique moveset. Here is a gameplay video. I should note he does get a blaster later on in the game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i4YCupUEVk

 

[augustoflores]

yea... i would just pull an AC.

also, i know it's called panel de pon. but the link you provided me states:

Panel de Pon is the first game in the long-running Puzzle League series, and has seen numerous sequels for most of Nintendo's game consoles in markets worldwide.

 

[refugee]

yea... i would just pull an AC.

also, i know it's called panel de pon. but the link you provided me states:

Any reasons?

And you're right about that. My bad.

 

[augustoflores]

i don't know anything about chibi-robo... basically, i'm scared. i'm surprised at the minimal amount of information i have on the guy. me, a guy who researches numerous things game related for no true particular reason whatsoever... im practically a fractured data bank as my mid-term memory has it's fallacies.
(i made up the term mid-term memory to describe my dilemma)

 

[refugee]

i don't know anything about chibi-robo... basically, i'm scared. i'm surprised at the minimal amount of information i have on the guy. me, a guy who researches numerous things game related for no true particular reason whatsoever... im practically a fractured data bank as my mid-term memory has it's fallacies.
(i made up the term mid-term memory to describe my dilemma)

Read the wikipedia page on him. He has had 3 games so far with the first two games even being released (GCN and Nintendo DS) in the U.S despite how wacky the game is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chibi-Robo!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chibi-Robo:_Park_Patrol
And here is the game that is Japan only unfortunately http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okaeri!_Chibi-Robo!_Happy_Richie_Dai_Souji!
While the games are noted for the fact that you spend a lot of time cleaning there are some parts of the game where you actually have to fight.

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4sps4oBFRA Note the title.

EDIT: I guess if you post enough links you can kill a discussion with ease.

 

[AetherEch0s]

Sakurai mentioned his criteria not long after the last game came out. The three requirements are as follows:

1. The character must be someone people want to play. I think this means that it must be someone not hated and must not be bland in playstyle.
2. The character must have something only they can do. Pretty much means that a character must feature some kind of playstyle not previously available.
3. Must originate as a video game character and must have appeared on a Nintendo platform at some point.

Well obviously Sakurai doesnt follow his own guidelines, as Ridley clearly fits those. As does Geno and all the others on the top of the poll. The truth is, his own personal bias should be a #4 on that list. He only puts in characters that he likes.

--------------------------------

I think Chibi-Robo would fit in pretty nicely with the other characters. He would have to be resized like Olimar, but would still fit in. His moveset could be based on the random household items he uses, or Sakurai could just make up an electrical/robot moveset that would work.

 

[refugee]

Well obviously Sakurai doesnt follow his own guidelines, as Ridley clearly fits those. As does Geno and all the others on the top of the poll. The truth is, his own personal bias should be a #4 on that list. He only puts in characters that he likes.

It should be noted that there is always going to be characters left out that fit those guidelines due to space and time. And I think Geno more has to do with SquareEnix then Sakurai not liking him.

 

[AetherEch0s]

It should be noted that there is always going to be characters left out that fit those guidelines due to space and time. And I think Geno more has to do with SquareEnix then Sakurai not liking him.

yeah Geno is a different example. SquareEnix would just have been too difficult to negotiate with. But Ridley, K.Rool and a few others, were most likely just not in his taste. He saw Ridley and assumed he was a generic mindless boss instead of the intelligent being that he is. It didnt even cross his mind that we wanted him playable. He also refuses to learn about a series to represent it better. I mean, Isaac's trophy details are wayyyy off. I think he also seems to prefer "cute" looking characters over "cool" looking characters.

 

[refugee]

yeah Geno is a different example. SquareEnix would just have been too difficult to negotiate with. But Ridley, K.Rool and a few others, were most likely just not in his taste. He saw Ridley and assumed he was a generic mindless boss instead of the intelligent being that he is. It didnt even cross his mind that we wanted him playable. He also refuses to learn about a series to represent it better. I mean, Isaac's trophy details are wayyyy off. I think he also seems to prefer "cute" looking characters over "cool" looking characters.

Speaking of characters "we" like I think that's the reason why Sonic got in. He had the most votes on that poll that Nintendo had. I believe it was only for Japan which makes me wonder why they couldn't do one for America and Europe as well.

 

[refugee]

Sorry double post

 

[Weyard]

Speaking of characters "we" like I think that's the reason why Sonic got in. He had the most votes on that poll that Nintendo had. I believe it was only for Japan which makes me wonder why they couldn't do one for America and Europe as well.

I find that odd too. They have to know that Americans and Europeans like SSB just as much as the Japanese. It's not right to only poll his home country when the results are going to affect all of us.

 

[AetherEch0s]

But if SSB4 is really on the way, the characters would already have to be determined. Though i wouldn't mind an English audience poll for DLC characters once the game has been released.

 

[Steam]

What exactly is the issue here? Are people saying that Mewtwo will come back in SSB4 to replace Lucario? To be honest, I figured they'd keep Lucario and add Zoroark for 5 Pokemon reps. I mean, as much as I love the first gen over the others, it already has 3 reps besides Mewtwo. Why not keep Lucario who is fresher in mind from Brawl and add a cool new moveset for Zoroark?

someone suggested to have lucario as an alt costume for mewtwo. and was showing how that couldn't work.

I will say that mewtwo will be second to lucario in priority for the next smash. Zoroark kinda falls under a different catagory IMO.

 

[Browny]

Even though I used mewtwo in melee and switched to luc, I could never use zoroark.

Primarily because zoroark doesnt have a tail.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Well obviously Sakurai doesnt follow his own guidelines, as Ridley clearly fits those. As does Geno and all the others on the top of the poll. The truth is, his own personal bias should be a #4 on that list. He only puts in characters that he likes.

I'm guessing you're referring to this as the Brawl poll.

Here's the best explanation of that particular thing:

There’s a list of the “top characters”, along with data on “how many times Sakurai mentioned each character” or “how many votes they got”. None of those are really true. Like I said, the suggestions that were posted on the Brawl site were only a small selection. If you went through the posted Melee suggestions and counted up all the appearances of the name of any character from the poll, it probably wouldn’t be the same as the actual poll results. And on top of that, the number of mentions isn’t even accurate – the list was created by people who went through those pages with an online translator and counted up the number of times they saw a character’s name, whether or not it was an actual “vote” for the character.

The annoying thing about this is that the posted Brawl suggestions no longer exist – they were on the old Brawl site, which was replaced by the current one (even though the other suggestions are still intact). They can be accessed with the Wayback Machine, though.

There’s only one detail we know about the Brawl polls – Sonic was number one. That’s all. I’m just bringing this up because there are still some people who bring up that list above in arguments and say “Geno was one of the most requested characters on Sakurai’s poll, he should have gotten in!”

There's a lot of great stuff in this, so take a gander if you get the chance.

The only other things I'd add are:

- Sakurai has gone on record to say that he picks all the characters himself (or approves them in the case of 3rd parties)
- Sakurai isn't 100% familiar with every series, so he's bound to have some misconceptions about various characters (I personally believe that in Ridley's case he was an AT first, then later bumped up to two bosses)
- Every game so far has had characters Sakurai couldn't include specifically because of time (he refuses to say who specifically for Brawl, but we can guess quite a bit)

I will say that mewtwo will be second to lucario in priority for the next smash. Zoroark kinda falls under a different catagory IMO.

Not responding to this in particular, but it's kinda hard to take some of the stuff you've been saying about Lucario's popularity seriously with that avatar.

 

[Steam]

I don't want lucario in the the next smash even though I think he's awesome. But you really don't have to look to hard to see how popular and well known he is... he's a love/hate character. though the love is all that matters when it comes to being wanted to be played.

but he'd be in ahead of mewtwo simply because mewtwo is just like lucario in many ways... except older and with a more diminished fanbase.

 

[AetherEch0s]

I'm guessing you're referring to this as the Brawl poll.

Here's the best explanation of that particular thing:



There's a lot of great stuff in this, so take a gander if you get the chance.

The only other things I'd add are:

- Sakurai has gone on record to say that he picks all the characters himself (or approves them in the case of 3rd parties)
- Sakurai isn't 100% familiar with every series, so he's bound to have some misconceptions about various characters (I personally believe that in Ridley's case he was an AT first, then later bumped up to two bosses)
- Every game so far has had characters Sakurai couldn't include specifically because of time (he refuses to say who specifically for Brawl, but we can guess quite a bit)





Not responding to this in particular, but it's kinda hard to take some of the stuff you've been saying about Lucario's popularity seriously with that avatar.

Yeah, that was the poll i was referring to. Im not really using that as an argument as to why certain characters were in, only to show that "votes" hardly mattered in Sonic's case. Since he picks them, the ultimate requirement is whether or not Sakurai likes them. No matter how much the public wants that certain character included, if Sakurai doesn't like that character, it most likely wont be included. However, it could be different this time, since fans world-wide have voiced their opinion on the matter, even in interviews with Sakurai, people have brought up Isaac and Ridley specifically. Whether Ridley was to be an AT or a boss, Sakurai has already stated that he didnt try to make him playable, which was a mistake.

And http://forum.starmen.net/forum/Stor...ing-a-comprehensive-list-of-unused-characters was very interesting. Thanks for posting it. I recommend everyone read it.

And id love to see where all this Lucario love is coming from. From what i can tell he isnt nearly as popular as some of the other 4th gen Pokemon, and not nearly as loved as Mewtwo. It was lack of time alone that prevented Mewtwo from being included, not dwindling popularity. Zoroark is a different story altogether. 5th gen hasnt been around long enough to determine anything, but his inclusion is likely, being one of the most well known and recent Pokemon. That, and being one of the first "mascots" of the 5th gen as Lucario was for 4th.

 

[Hoots]

That's why I honestly hope Sakurai doesn't do the next Smash. He just hasn't done the necessary research. Most specifically, his portrayal of the DK franchise in Brawl besides Diddy's inclusion was atrocious. Also, for some reason the Japanese hate Kremlings so I think this stupid bias will prevent K Rool from being included which is ridiulous.

 

[Kantrip]

It's because of Godzilla.

EDIT: Then again, my bias for the Donkey Kong franchise is great

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

but he'd be in ahead of mewtwo simply because mewtwo is just like lucario in many ways... except older and with a more diminished fanbase.

Anytime I google Pokemon popularity, Lucario is treated about the same as the Gen 4 legendaries (which isn't particularly amazing across all generations). Mewtwo is among the most popular. Also the majority of contests between Mewtwo and Lucario tend to favor Mewtwo, with the single exception being polls about which one plays better in Smash.

Personally, I don't see the problem with both, especially when Zoroark isn't making much of an impression.

Since he picks them, the ultimate requirement is whether or not Sakurai likes them. No matter how much the public wants that certain character included, if Sakurai doesn't like that character, it most likely wont be included.

Ehh, I wouldn't say it's a matter of Sakurai "liking" the character, just a matter of awareness. After all, this is a guy who deliberately avoids making games for himself (compare classic Kirby to this, or look at pretty much any other designer). Aside from really awkward suggestions like Link's Uncle or whatever, he's very open.

At least in Ridley and Isaac's case, I don't think there's anything to worry about this time.
That's just me though.

That's why I honestly hope Sakurai doesn't do the next Smash. He just hasn't done the necessary research. Most specifically, his portrayal of the DK franchise in Brawl besides Diddy's inclusion was atrocious. Also, for some reason the Japanese hate Kremlings so I think this stupid bias will prevent K Rool from being included which is ridiulous.

"Necessary research" is a nice way of saying "he didn't add stuff that I wanted, **** him." Not that DK didn't get the shaft twice in a row, but it's a little much to claim that he's particularly ignorant. I can't find them right now, but there are instances where he mentions characters having lots of foreign (NA/EU) demand.

Also that's the first I've ever heard about Japan hating the Kremlings, and I've heard lots.

Spoiler

I keep thinking your avatar is Tom Selleck

 

[Dynamo68]

You mean which Kirby character? Also, link? Still doesn't change the fact that his roles in the Kirby games are minor at best and therefore his appearance in Brawl should be like that. Have him as an enemy in adventure mode or return him as an AT. He shouldn't be a playable character though.

Why not we just drop this subject for now and we'll see whether or not he's playable. DLC would be great.

 

[AetherEch0s]

Anytime I google Pokemon popularity, Lucario is treated about the same as the Gen 4 legendaries (which isn't particularly amazing across all generations). Mewtwo is among the most popular. Also the majority of contests between Mewtwo and Lucario tend to favor Mewtwo, with the single exception being polls about which one plays better in Smash.

Personally, I don't see the problem with both, especially when Zoroark isn't making much of an impression.




Ehh, I wouldn't say it's a matter of Sakurai "liking" the character, just a matter of awareness. After all, this is a guy who deliberately avoids making games for himself (compare classic Kirby to this, or look at pretty much any other designer). Aside from really awkward suggestions like Link's Uncle or whatever, he's very open.

At least in Ridley and Isaac's case, I don't think there's anything to worry about this time.
That's just me though.




"Necessary research" is a nice way of saying "he didn't add stuff that I wanted, **** him." Not that DK didn't get the shaft twice in a row, but it's a little much to claim that he's particularly ignorant. I can't find them right now, but there are instances where he mentions characters having lots of foreign (NA/EU) demand.

Also that's the first I've ever heard about Japan hating the Kremlings, and I've heard lots.

Spoiler

I keep thinking your avatar is Tom Selleck

Zoroark is like #17? Wow. But who was polled for that list? From the looks of it, with Chandelure and Whimsicott being the top, the people that voted had competitive play in mind. Although if that were the case Ferrothorn and Excadrill would be there.

Im not worried about Ridley making it this time. But Isaac could easily lose to Matthew or even Felix, who knows what Sakurai is thinking

New subject
Lets talk about the dojo. When do you think the updates will start? Within months of its announcement or do you think it will be a while?

 

[Dynamo68]

stupid double post : /
Why isnt there a delete button?

Don't worry, its okay. We all make mistakes.

 

[refugee]

I don't want lucario in the the next smash even though I think he's awesome. But you really don't have to look to hard to see how popular and well known he is... he's a love/hate character. though the love is all that matters when it comes to being wanted to be played.

but he'd be in ahead of mewtwo simply because mewtwo is just like lucario in many ways... except older and with a more diminished fanbase.

Can you please stop arguing about this. You don't have any facts to back up your claims. You refuse to find any. You supposively don't care if he gets in or not but you're the only one who keeps bringing him up. Really it's getting annoying now. If he was so popular, there would be more people then just you arguing for his case right now. I don't mind that you want and think Lucario is going to return but stop mentioning him every time someone mentions a roster (or anything else character related) and state things like "HEZ ZEH FIRST PRIORTY OVR EVRBODY!!!!!!" and "HE IZ ZEH MOST POPULAR POKEMON EVAR!" (Yes I know that's an exaggeration) when those are subjective statements that you have not proven and seem to actually of been disproven numerous times in this thread. So please, please just chill out with the Lucario topic, give it a rest, and actually post stuff that can be proven.

Why not we just drop this subject for now and we'll see whether or not he's playable. DLC would be great.

Sure.

 

[Gallowglass]

Well since we are on the subject of changing subjects what do you guys think about elaborating costume changes? Just like Wario's outfit could change you could modify other characters to add even more. Also you could have outfits of different games (e.g. OOT Link and TP Link). They would have to have the same size, build, and movesets though graphics could change. This is what was thinking.

Mario
-Dr. Mario
-Evil Mario (Sunshine, Galaxy)
-Paper Mario

Link
-Twilight Princess
-Skyward Sword
-OOT Link
-Dark Link
-Fierce Diety (Modified one handed oni blade)

Peach
- Daisy
- Sport Outfits (Soccer, Golf, etc)
- Princess Shroob

Ganondorf
- TP
- OOT
- Wind Waker
- Pig Form (From Link to the Past and NES)
- Black Shadow

Yoshi
- Boshi

Luigi
- Waluigi

Toon Link
- OOT Link
- NES Link (Not just a color swap and not 2D)
- Link to the Past

Pikachu
- Pichu
- Raichu

Pit
- Reaper outfit
- Solider outfit
- Captain Outfit

Captain Olimar
- Louie
- President

Samus
- Dark Samus
- Various outfits

Marth
- Roy

Bowser
- Possibly Blastoise (Fire breath turns into water)

This is just a few ideas I had. You could even make the name change when you select certain costumes (e.g. black shadow).

 

[refugee]

Well since we are on the subject of changing subjects what do you guys think about elaborating costume changes? Just like Wario's outfit could change you could modify other characters to add even more. Also you could have outfits of different games (e.g. OOT Link and TP Link). They would have to have the same size, build, and movesets though graphics could change. This is what was thinking.

Mario
-Dr. Mario
-Evil Mario (Sunshine, Galaxy)
-Paper Mario

Link
-Twilight Princess
-Skyward Sword
-OOT Link
-Dark Link
-Fierce Diety (Modified one handed oni blade)

Peach
- Daisy
- Sport Outfits (Soccer, Golf, etc)
- Princess Shroob

Ganondorf
- TP
- OOT
- Wind Waker
- Pig Form (From Link to the Past and NES)
- Black Shadow

Yoshi
- Boshi

Luigi
- Waluigi

Toon Link
- OOT Link
- NES Link (Not just a color swap and not 2D)
- Link to the Past

Pikachu
- Pichu
- Raichu

Pit
- Reaper outfit
- Solider outfit
- Captain Outfit

Captain Olimar
- Louie
- President

Samus
- Dark Samus
- Various outfits

Marth
- Roy

Bowser
- Possibly Blastoise (Fire breath turns into water)

This is just a few ideas I had. You could even make the name change when you select certain costumes (e.g. black shadow).

I think this should just be limited to outfit changes and not actual character changes. For example, Dr. Mario and Mario. Same character except for different outfits. I don't think it would work out with Blastoise considering how different he is from Bowser along with. I also don't see Paper Mario working out well since he is suppose to be 2D unlike Mario who is 3D (compare Mario to Mr. G&W). For a lot of the other choices there are height/size differences that would also mess it up. I like the idea for the sports outfit for Peach. The same could be implemented for other characters.