[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Llumys]

Well, the random spot could just be like it was in Melee, 'cept it'd only choose the character once the game started.

And I think ZSS should be readily accessible to the people who don't know about holding buttons before the game starts.

 

[augustoflores]

exactly why i suggest that if you press the left and/or right shoulder buttons, it changes the sub-categorical character within the slot. this way you can choose sheik on the selection screen and the announcer actually says sheik at the selection screen with her image on the player screen. the X and Y buttons would still change the color schemes; this way you don't have to continually cycle Wario's vast array of colors as wario had his wario ware costume and his plumber costume.

here's my proposition:
Left shoulder buttons changes the alternative characters
Right shoulder buttons changes the costumes of the characters
X and Y buttons cycle the color palette.

there is a difference between costumes and color palettes.

the random button that i mentioned is a button you find on the player screen. when i say player screen, i refer to the rectangle on the screen that shows what character you chose and what your username is.

i seriously doubt that anyone in all of Smash Boards has thought of putting the random button on the player screen. if the people who respond to this post dislike my idea, then they are merely scared.

and, i don't like the way it was in melee... once i chose to place it in one of the corners, and i got a character i didn't like, i immediately did it again. having it random until the game starts will keep me from doing that. doing that is not a good thing in my eyes and I'm the one doing it!

 

[refugee]

not good: Kamek, Skull Kid, Hilda, Tom Nook, Balloon Fighter, Mach Rider, Tails... why did you use up space for Zero Suit Samus? just put a 3 point asterisk and mention Zero suit samus is a sub character of Samus.
there, i just cleared up 8 spots on your roster... i would remove the random button and move it somewhere not on the roster... someplace only i seem to know about or has even thought about.

try to come up with 8 other characters for your now refined roster.

Tom Nook isn't such a bad character choice...

 

[Deleted member]

I know my third party additions are unlikely, but I'm hopeful enough to include them in my roster.

Row 1: I don't think Toad is a good choice for a new playable character. Beside, Toad is already a special move for Peach, that should be enough. For a sixth Mario representative, not sure if it needs one or not, thought I guess Paper Mario would do, although to be fair, I'm starting to doubt that we need a sixth Mario representative.

Row 2: Dixie Kong would be okay, but I would prefer King K. Rool over Dixie Kong since he has more potential for being unique and Dixie Kong would work better as a pair team with Diddy Kong. Still, she is better then Kamek, who is not a good choice at all and not a character I would use. So if we have six on this side, it should be Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong, King K. Rool, Yoshi, and Wario.

Row 3: Eh, not really a fan of the two newcomers choice. I guess the fifth one should be Vaati, but I'm not incredibly familiar with The Legend of Zelda, so I'm not sure who should represent it.

Row 4: As much as I would love for Mewtwo and Lucario to come back, I doubt both of them will return for then next game. Of those, if one of them return, I lean towards Mewtwo, since his first appearance was in a video game. There should not be two Pokemon Trainers as playable character, that would be a waste of space. Ditch Hilda and replace it with a 5th gen Pokemon character.

Row 5: Perfect.

Row 6: Is it seriously necessary to have Samus and Zero Suit Samus as separate characters? I like them as they are, together, accessed by a Final Smash. I like the other choices, thought.

Row 7: Perfect.

Row 8: I'd be okay with Tom Nook, but I don't know what Andy would do to represent the series as a playable characters. Then again, I'm not familiar with the Advance Wars series.

Row 9: Balloon Fighter is not going to happen, although it would be neat if it did. The rest are good choices, thought.

Row 10: Tails is not a good choice for a 4th third-party character. Bomberman or Pacman are far superior as they have much more potential to be unique.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Hey whats with all the Tails hate here? If Sonic got in the next smash bros I'm sure we'd see an increase in the number of characters representing his series and Tails would be a good candidate. The part that's unlikely is Sonic returning since he was already in Brawl, and without Sonic, there'd be no other Sonic characters.

 

[refugee]

Hey whats with all the Tails hate here? If Sonic got in the next smash bros I'm sure we'd see an increase in the number of characters representing his series and Tails would be a good candidate. The part that's unlikely is Sonic returning since he was already in Brawl, and without Sonic, there'd be no other Sonic characters.

No because he is a 3rd party character. There should only be one character per a 3rd party franchise or even a 3rd party company. This is because there a numerous amount of 3rd party companies and limited amount of space for 3rd party characters, most likely 3-5. So why waste a spot on some side character like Tails when it can be the main character of a game like Megaman?

 

[Dynamo68]

i don't think it's knuckle joe per sie, it's kinda more of the integrity of Smash.

knuckle joe is a basic enemy... sure he's got potential, but then again, any fighter would, knuckle joe is that fighter.
it's just unlucky that he isn't a single character in the game the way Kirby, King Dedede, and Meta-Knight are. no one else are as important to the series as these three characters. Gooey, Rick, Prince Fluff, etc... these are friends of Kirby but are they important to the series as a whole? No.

When you said this reply, did you mean that you agree that KJ has more potential than any other Kirby character like Gooey, Rick, Prince Fluff, etc?

 

[augustoflores]

unfortunately, practically the entire fanbase of super smash brothers dislike the dropping of characters. they are scared that if a character gets dropped, they will never see that character in any smash bros. in the future installments. dropping snake and sonic is something only the brave of heart are capable of doing to their own fan rosters.
the word Guest doesn't faze them much and they usually use an excuse like "smash is not soul calibur", which is blasphemous considering all games are basically products and art.

i myself fear that sonic won't return and i half want him to GTFO as he is a guest... basically, it's like a guest who just happens to be a squatter. refusing to leave your house after he was invited for one night of party.
in a universe where he does return, i'd prefer Knuckles over Tails and Sonic's moves not to center spinning... he has a perfect moveset on Sonic Battle. why not use that.

seriously, Hal Laboratory (or whoever) needs to hire 3 user extremists that know what's what with the characters that they selected and what they should have done to this n' that. like that sonic battle thing that i mentioned. then the dev team gets to work on fixing. i seriously doubt the dev team knows certain important things about the characters they work with.

well, this is my research.

(@Dynamo... unfortunately.... yes, but that does not mean i like it... Kirby Series is complete and KJ is a peon. lol i just thought of the prince and the pauper. *new thought, new thought!*)

 

[Zap tackle]

Row 1: I don't think Toad is a good choice for a new playable character. Beside, Toad is already a special move for Peach, that should be enough. For a sixth Mario representative, not sure if it needs one or not, thought I guess Paper Mario would do, although to be fair, I'm starting to doubt that we need a sixth Mario representative.

So just because he's an attack, Toad shouldn't be playable? We have assist trophies who could become viable characters (eg Little Mac, Issac), so since they're in Brawl already in some form, they should not be playable either. -_-

 

[refugee]

When you said this reply, did you mean that you agree that KJ has more potential than any other Kirby character like Gooey, Rick, Prince Fluff, etc?

Are you on drugs? He's saying that despite all those characters he listed being more worthy then knuckle joe that none of them should be playable either because the kirby series already has enough reps.

 

[augustoflores]

calm down ref... read the last line of my last post. and you're right too but it's just that my answer to his question really only focused on the potential.

sure prince fluff has potential too but the mechanics required to have him even available is hair-pullingly difficult to implement.

 

[Dynamo68]

Are you on drugs? He's saying that despite all those characters he listed being more worthy then knuckle joe that none of them should be playable either because the kirby series already has enough reps.

Reply fixing......

Are you on drugs? He's saying that despite all those characters he listed being more worthy then knuckle joe that none of them should be playable either because the kirby series already has enough reps.


I don't like your attitude! You need to be taught some manners, fagrid. HAHAHAHAHA!!

 

[refugee]

calm down ref... read the last line of my last post. and you're right too but it's just that my answer to his question really only focused on the potential.

sure prince fluff has potential too but the mechanics required to have him even available is hair-pullingly difficult to implement.

My bad. It's just when it comes to 10 year old fanboys who keep going on and on about their character even after saying they would drop it that I lose my patience.

 

[Dynamo68]

calm down ref... read the last line of my last post. and you're right too but it's just that my answer to his question really only focused on the potential.

sure prince fluff has potential too but the mechanics required to have him even available is hair-pullingly difficult to implement.

Sorry if this seems too awkward, but it feels like you're supporting me. I just hate it when other people of this forum (like refugee for example) have a snobbish attitude.

(@Dynamo... unfortunately.... yes, but that does not mean i like it... Kirby Series is complete and KJ is a peon. lol i just thought of the prince and the pauper. *new thought, new thought!*)[/QUOTE]

Whaddya mean?

 

[refugee]

I don't like your attitude! You need to be taught some manners, fagrid. HAHAHAHAHA!!

That's cute, do you even know what that word means kid?

 

[Dynamo68]

That's cute, do you even know what that word means kid?

It's a word I made up. It's a combination between ****** and ******.

 

[refugee]

It's a word I made up. It's a combination between ****** and ******.

Wow you're so creative! Does your mom know of this writting skill you posses?

 

[Dynamo68]

Wow you're so creative! Does your mom know of this writting skill you posses?

Why yes. Yes she does. Now how about we get back to the whole SSB4 subject before things get off topic, shall we?

 

[refugee]

Why yes. Yes she does. Now how about we get back to the whole SSB4 subject before things get off topic, shall we?

Sure if you stick to what you just said this time around.

 

[Dynamo68]

Sure if you stick to what you just said this time around.

It'd be a pleasure. Because I don't like cyber-bullying, and I would just like to have a peaceful time giving opinions. Sounds Fair.

 

[augustoflores]

man i feel like the adult here... and im not even allowed to drink yet... im shy one more year... i need a drink for this.
*glug**glug*
where the hell are you kuma? shortie? toise? spydr? majora? birthnote? Pieman? Fatman? Chrono? Shino/Pandero? Star? Arc? Chu? BBQ? UberMario? Koopa? Deku? getocoolaid? vaati? jaklub? ryuu? Warlord? did i forget any one? where the hell are you whoeveryouare!?

by the way, these guys are your superiors... and me. they may all have differing views (especially Kuma/Chu and Pieman/Warlord) but they are more or less qualified to post a good post. when they aren't seeing the color red.

... *hic*

 

[refugee]

man i feel like the adult here... and im not even allowed to drink yet... im shy one more year... i need a drink for this.
*glug**glug*
where the hell are you kuma? shortie? toise? spydr? majora? birthnote? Pieman? Fatman? Chrono? Shino/Pandero? Star? Arc? Chu? BBQ? UberMario? Koopa? Deku? getocoolaid? vaati? jaklub? ryuu? Warlord? did i forget any one? where the hell are you whoeveryouare!?

by the way, these guys are your superiors... and me. they may all have differing views (especially Kuma/Chu and Pieman/Warlord) but they are more or less qualified to post a good post. when they aren't seeing the color red.

... *hic*

Well me and the other guy are done fighting now so you can sober up now. I'm sorry to all for my behavior tonight (including you knuckle joe dude) I should of calmed down and not be a sarcastic jerk. I'll calm down now and actually try to make suggesstions rather then shoot them down.

 

[Deleted member]

So just because he's an attack, Toad shouldn't be playable? We have assist trophies who could become viable characters (eg Little Mac, Issac), so since they're in Brawl already in some form, they should not be playable either. -_-

There's a huge difference between Toad being a special attack for Peach and Assist Trophies. Toad doesn't have much potential for a fighter in comparison to other highly requested characters, so this is the most I can see Toad being involved in a fight. Assist Trophies have much more fighting potential and are much more likely to be upgraded. When all said and done, I believe that at least five Assist Trophies in Brawl stands a decent chance be upgraded to playable characters; Samurai Gorah, Ray MK III, Saki, Issac, and Little Mac. Even those unlikely to be in the next game (Knuckle Joe, Shadow) have more potential for a moveset then a common Toad. They will put in obscure Nintendo characters before they think about a common enemy.

 

[refugee]

Hey does anyone here know why the invisiability cloak from Melee did not appear in brawl. I think it would cool to see in another smash game.

 

[augustoflores]

good to know... thoughts on this?

... i suggest that if you press the left and/or right shoulder buttons, it changes the sub-categorical character within the slot. this way you can choose sheik on the selection screen and the announcer actually says sheik at the selection screen with her image on the player screen. the X and Y buttons would still change the color schemes; this way you don't have to continually cycle Wario's vast array of colors as wario had his wario ware costume and his plumber costume.

here's my proposition:
Left shoulder buttons changes the alternative characters
Right shoulder buttons changes the costumes of the characters
X and Y buttons cycle the color palette.

there is a difference between costumes and color palettes.

the random button that i mentioned is a button you find on the player screen. when i say player screen, i refer to the rectangle on the screen that shows what character you chose and what your username is.

i seriously doubt that anyone in all of Smash Boards has thought of putting the random button on the player screen. if the people who respond to this post dislike my idea, then they are merely scared.

and, i don't like the way it was in melee... once i chose to place it in one of the corners, and i got a character i didn't like, i immediately did it again. having it random until the game starts will keep me from doing that. doing that is not a good thing in my eyes and I'm the one doing it!

unfortunately, practically the entire fanbase of super smash brothers dislike the dropping of characters. they are scared that if a character gets dropped, they will never see that character in any smash bros. in the future installments. dropping snake and sonic is something only the brave of heart are capable of doing to their own fan rosters.
the word Guest doesn't faze them much and they usually use an excuse like "smash is not soul calibur", which is blasphemous considering all games are basically products and art.

i myself fear that sonic won't return and i half want him to GTFO as he is a guest... basically, it's like a guest who just happens to be a squatter. refusing to leave your house after he was invited for one night of party.
in a universe where he does return, i'd prefer Knuckles over Tails and Sonic's moves not to center spinning... he has a perfect moveset on Sonic Battle. why not use that.

seriously, Hal Laboratory (or whoever) needs to hire 3 user extremists that know what's what with the characters that they selected and what they should have done to this n' that. like that sonic battle thing that i mentioned. then the dev team gets to work on fixing. i seriously doubt the dev team knows certain important things about the characters they work with.

well, this is my research.

want to make sure these were not forgotten as they are some of the best things i have written as of late.

 

[refugee]

I'll respond in depth when I get to a computer.

 

[Deleted member]

@augustoflores: I think the main reason why people threw such a fit (Myself admittedly back in the day, I'm over that thought) over losing characters has to do with Mewtwo. Mewtwo, while considered a bad character in comparison to other Melee characters, had a unique moveset and unlike Pichu (Not sure about the other two), was popular with gamers. Nintendo only promised to drop clone character. By dropping an unique character, they contradicted this rule big time, although to be fair, Lucario was done better with similar moveset.

If any characters that was dropped from Melee returns, it will be Mewtwo because he had a unique set of moves and that he's a popular request. I'm not saying he will come back, just that he actually stands a chance in doing so, unlike the three clones that were rightfully dropped to make move for more unique and better characters.

As for characters removal, quite honestly, I'm not going to ***** about it vigorously if it's a clone like Toon Link or Lucas since I can't really see them with a unique moveset, but if they end up dropping someone with one of the following:

- Unique moveset
- Popular character that not many people want to leave behind
- Clone that can be worked as an original character and has only been in one game so far

That is where I draw the line. Considering that all three games have great rosters for their time, I expect the fourth one to be as good if not better then the previous games and dropping characters, while not something I'm 100% against, should be thought of extremely carefully.

An extreme example of dropping characters done wrong is when Capcom dropped Mega Man for Marvel Vs. Capcom 3. That move, combined with a poor explanation of why they did it, enraged many fans and for good reasons.

 

[augustoflores]

my research is conducted based on the transition to SSB4 from brawl... not referring with melee.
this research is greatly shown in fan rosters with snake and sonic still there. and sure, yea, mewtwo returning for whatever. comparing mewtwo with lucario usually and taking out lucario when they can easily coexist within a slot for what ever strange reason i can think of.

 

[BlueSuperSonic1]

How the hell is Lucas a clone? Apart from his specials, practically all of his moves are different than Ness'.

 

[augustoflores]

also, it should be noted that Ness was intended to have been replaced by Lucas. time extensions allowed Ness and Jigglypuff to survive the melee/brawl transition. unfortunately, mewtwo and roy were not so lucky as they were planned to be in but cut short due to time restraints.

 

[BlueSuperSonic1]

Ness was supposed to be cut for Lucas in Melee, not Brawl. Mother 3's delay, however, allowed Ness to stay.

 

[refugee]

good to know... thoughts on this?






want to make sure these were not forgotten as they are some of the best things i have written as of late.

I find your idea to be very well thought out. I'll be disappointed if they don't implement something like this in the next game because as you said, this would make changing the costume/color of a character easier. However, how do you think this would work if they decide to implement multiple controller options again like with the wiimote?

I agree with Super Smash Bros. Fan. Characters that have unique movesets, have the potential not to be clones, and/or very popular with fans shouldn't be removed from the game. As for the user extremist idea, I'm not sure if they would know how to find them.

Ness was supposed to be cut for Lucas in Melee, not Brawl. Mother 3's delay, however, allowed Ness to stay.

I think there was a link posted like 5 pages earlier that he was almost cut from Brawl too.

 

[AetherEch0s]

why complain about Lucas, when neither of them even learn those moves in-game to begin with?

 

[Spydr Enzo]

also, it should be noted that Ness was intended to have been replaced by Lucas. time extensions allowed Ness and Jigglypuff to survive the melee/brawl transition. unfortunately, mewtwo and roy were not so lucky as they were planned to be in but cut short due to time restraints.

Not exactly, Ness was only supposed to be replaced by Lucas in the transition from SSB64 to Melee, but the Mother 3 delay changed that. I think Ness is cemented into the series now, and if either of them get the boot, it's going to be Lucas.

Also, where is the evidence that Jigglypuff "barely made it into the game" as many people like to say? Even if Jigglypuff "barely made it," then don't forget that it was still obviously higher priority than Mewtwo, Dr. Mario, and Roy and other characters like Dixie Kong and Toon Zelda. The only character you can really say this about is Wolf, but then again that's just a theory with no viable evidence and we really don't know enough about Brawl's development stages to back any of that up.

 

[Deleted member]

why complain about Lucas, when neither of them even learn those moves in-game to begin with?

I'm not complaining about Lucas being a clone (Although I do wish he wasn't), I'm just saying that I wouldn't be as bothered with his removal as I would with Ness or other characters with a unique moveset.

And has anyone heard of any beta elements regarding potential playable characters in Melee but didn't make it? I tried to find some, but found nothing.

 

[refugee]

Here's the link that talks about Ness almost being removed from Brawl.

http://forum.starmen.net/forum/Stor...ing-a-comprehensive-list-of-unused-characters

EDIT: Hmmm, I can't seem to find it...

Well it's a good link overall anyways. Take a look at it if you haven't already.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Here's the link that talks about Ness almost being removed from Brawl.

http://forum.starmen.net/forum/Stor...ing-a-comprehensive-list-of-unused-characters

..Did you read it? Look again:

People here would likely know this one, but Lucas was intended to be in (well, actually Sakurai just says “the protagonist of Mother 3” but it’s clear that that was always Lucas), and that he would replace Ness. However, Mother 3 was in development hell during Melee’s development (or had it already been canceled?), so the team just stuck with Ness.

It says nothing about Brawl. I don't need to read that post anyway, I've used it as a source so many times since the day it was first posted in 2009 (or pretty close to that day) I know it like the back of my hand.

 

[refugee]

..Did you read it? Look again:




It says nothing about Brawl. I don't need to read that post anyway, I've used it as a source so many times I know it like the back of my hand.

Yeah I did that's why I made my edit.

 

[augustoflores]

spydr's right... sorry bout that piderman, im allittle light headed.

now that you're here... hold the fort. i'm out!

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Yeah I did that's why I made my edit.

You didn't say anything about that in your edit, you only mentioned that you couldn't find the spot where the OP mentioned Ness and Lucas.

But yeah, it's a brilliant post and should be edited into the first page of this thread.