[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Weyard]

Thats why its a gimmick. It would help in some situations, and hurt in others. Imagine the mind games in a 4 player online match for those who arent expecting it or paying much attention.

Considering that 99% of online matches in Brawl include items ( being thrown all about making it impossible to avoid damage for that long of a period of time), it wouldn't be that useful then either, unless the general mindset changes and more people neglect items. You might trick someone for 2-3 seconds until someone massacres you in the face with a thrown beam sword or something. It would be rather pointless really.

For it to work, Zoroark would need a special move that allows him to take the opponents form and use it's a/b moves until hit or until a certain period of time passes.

 

[Steam]

Forgot about that. Still, i doubt Sakurai would care enough to know that, what with the other glaring canonological problems. Although, it would still have the same effect even if he keeps his own attacks. Like if he appeared as Ganon, they would see him use what appears to be a slow Warlock Punch only to be hit by a fast Night Burst.

true... but at the same time Aura doesn't make lucario stronger canonically so yeh

you could make him use his opponent's moves by using downB until he gets hit once. having it at the beginning of a match would just help him land some insignificant hits.

 

[Kantrip]

Well whoever is hosting that tournament better be able to go online then so it can be up to date. That's how the competitive scene goes in any other game.

The host isn't the one bringing all the setups, he may bring one or two, but that doesn't mean a thing for those who voluntarily bring their console over. I know quite a few people who bring setups consistently and don't have wi-fi or network cables for their wii at their house. This would cause complications if they don't have the latest patch.

 

[Arcadenik]

Yes I agree with this except for not bringing back old stages. I don't see the problem with that and especially if they update them a bit like making certain parts destructible and change the layout a bit.

Well, if you mean like revamping Sector Z into Corneria and Kongo Jungle (SSB) into Kongo Jungle (Melee), then I agree about keeping past stages. They just got to feel new while retaining their unique elements.

 

[Steam]

The host isn't the one bringing all the setups, he may bring one or two, but that doesn't mean a thing for those who voluntarily bring their console over. I know quite a few people who bring setups consistently and don't have wi-fi or network cables for their wii at their house. This would cause complications if they don't have the latest patch.

other fighting games have this issue. and it's not an issue

 

[refugee]

The host isn't the one bringing all the setups, he may bring one or two, but that doesn't mean a thing for those who voluntarily bring their console over. I know quite a few people who bring setups consistently and don't have wi-fi or network cables for their wii at their house. This would cause complications if they don't have the latest patch.

Then they can get it updated at the hosts place where there is online then? Really don't see where you are trying to get at here.

 

[refugee]

other fighting games have this issue. and it's not an issue

You mean other fighting games have to deal with this.

 

[refugee]

Well, if you mean like revamping Sector Z into Corneria and Kongo Jungle (SSB) into Kongo Jungle (Melee), then I agree about keeping past stages. They just got to feel new while retaining their unique elements.

Yeah something like that pretty much.

EDIT: Alright folks I'm getting off. Have a good night and please keep this discussion intelligent.

 

[Weyard]

New subject- What do you all expect graphics-wise??

Do you think that SSB4 would end up being extremely graphically superior to Brawl or just have a few graphical touchups?
I don't think they could make Mario look much more "realistic" without making him utterly disgusting and deformed.

 

[Kantrip]

Well, the venue we use for our tournaments in my region doesn't have wifi; we try to get someone to bring a router but afaik we usually end up without one. I also wouldn't like the idea of going to a tournament with all your practice, and then setting up the game for there to be a patch that was implemented that changes some bugs and gameplay elements. Then you have no practice with a new patch you're forced to download on the spot. A tourney may even get interrupted by a patch that gets released.

I don't know, I just don't see smash as the kind of series that patches itself....

 

[AetherEch0s]

I think its pretty much finished graphics-wise. Maybe a framerate increase and some particle updates. It only needs a few detail updates like Kirby's face being painted on and such. A few more moving things like wind blown scarfs, capes and clothing. Other than that, theres not much you can do without making it have ultra disgusting realism. Just google for some of the realistic Marios and stuff and you'll see what i mean.

 

[Chidosengan]

New subject- What do you all expect graphics-wise??

Do you think that SSB4 would end up being extremely graphically superior to Brawl or just have a few graphical touchups?
I don't think they could make Mario look much more "realistic" without making him utterly disgusting and deformed.

Honestly, I really hope they go with a Cel shaded approach. It really goes with the colorful nature of the characters and the game itself. I don't know, I want it to be more cartoony than realistic (example, I liked the "bowling pin" sound effects that 64 had over the realistic "smacks" of Melee/Brawl). It brings more style in my opinion.

 

[Arcadenik]

I would like to see a gimmicky stage based on the rotation motion control. Like have a stage that tilts as you tilt your controllers (obviously it wouldnt apply to GCcontroller). That way, if the other player were to forget, you could tilt the stage and get an advantage on preventing their recovery or dodging an attack. Although if they payed attention the whole time and tried the same against you, the stage would constantly leave back and forth.

That's terrible. You will just confuse the game when two or more players are using motion controls. It would feel uncomfortable to twist your wrists around while playing Smash (it is nothing like Wii Sports).

 

[Weyard]

That's terrible. You will just confuse the game when two or more players are using motion controls. It would feel uncomfortable to twist your wrists around while playing Smash (it is nothing like Wii Sports).

I don't know. That really sounds like something Sakurai would come up with honestly lol. He has shown in the past that he doesn't care if a "new feature" interrupts and ruins gameplay coughtrippingcough.

 

[AetherEch0s]

Cell shaded would work like like in Skyward Sword and Other M. The filter over it all is what makes it look good. I think both look better than their graphically superior counterparts.

 

[Steam]

That's terrible. You will just confuse the game when two or more players are using motion controls. It would feel uncomfortable to twist your wrists around while playing Smash (it is nothing like Wii Sports).

not to mention the motion sickness.

 

[Weyard]

I would prefer an overly Bright or weird cellshading like Skyward sword over normal stuff like ZeldaWW though.

 

[Chidosengan]

I would prefer a stylized graphic cellshading style like Twilight Princess (dark) or Skyward sword (bright) over normal WW-style cellshading any day.

Maybe something like Street Fighter 4 or MvC3.

 

[AetherEch0s]

That's terrible. You will just confuse the game when two or more players are using motion controls. It would feel uncomfortable to twist your wrists around while playing Smash (it is nothing like Wii Sports).

Like i said, its just a gimmick. Why would you play on the stage if you were using GCN Controller anyway. It would probably work better with a tug of war like system where you fight over the rotation, making it wobble back and forth until one of you pulls harder, thus rotating it. On team matches it could add add up the motions of both team mates. It wouldnt make much difference, but it would be interesting to fall off the ledge and be just out of reach of the edge, with no hopes of recovery, when your partner pulls hard enough to rotate it further into your reach and you recover. It would be hectic to do this while fighting, and would undeniably be fun.

The seizure prone and motion sick people shouldnt be playing it to begin with xD. Look at Luigi's final smash. Thats just a seizure waiting to happen, as are the smoke balls.

 

[Arcadenik]

I have another stage idea... this time, from The Legendary Starfy.

Pufftop
It is a castle in the sky as seen here. I have actually played the game (who else here played it?) so I think I have a good idea of how a Starfy stage might be like. Pufftop is Starfy's castle and parts of it are flooded. I was thinking that the stage might be big like Hyrule Castle with exterior and interior parts.

The exterior would feature solid clouds to walk on. Bridging the clouds together are rainbows like in Skydye Heights. Characters can swim across the rainbows (no, really!) but for the sake of Smash gameplay, the rainbows may occasionally disappear (removing the safety net from the bottom side of the stage, so to speak).

The interior would feature water currents that push characters out of the castle and down the waterfall. The waterfall pools into a large cloud where characters can swim in. Inside the castle are some breakable floors like in Skyworld (referencing the breakable walls you find in the game). Characters may fall into the aforementioned water currents when the floors are temporarily gone.

 

[AetherEch0s]

I dont think swimming should come back. Its pointless really. The only stage it even helps on is the WW stage, and it would work basically the same with fall-through water like termina bay.

 

[Steam]

I dont think swimming should come back. Its pointless really. The only stage it even helps on is the WW stage, and it would work basically the same with fall-through water like termina bay.

swimming is good. keep it. characters falling like stones is kinda... strange. also jungle japes would become obnoxiously lame again. (even moreso than it is already)

 

[Llumys]

You know what, you're all so conservative. For all we know, they could be very generous when it comes to how many characters they're going to make playable. Here's my list:


Super Smash Bros. Veterans : (all 12; 12 total)
- Captain Falcon
- Donkey Kong
- Fox
- Jigglypuff
- Kirby
- Link
- Luigi
- Mario
- Ness
- Pikachu
- Samus
- Yoshi

Super Smash Bros. Melee Veterans : (all excluding Pichu, Dr. Mario and Roy; 22 total)
- Bowser
- Falco
- Ganondorf
- Ice Climbers
- Marth
- Mewtwo
- Mr. Game & Watch
- Peach
- Zelda/Sheik

Super Smash Bros. Brawl Veterans : (all excluding Toon Link and Snake; 36 total)
- Diddy Kong
- Ike
- King Dedede
- Lucario
- Lucas
- Meta Knight
- Captain Olimar
- Pit
- Red
- R.O.B.
- Sonic the Hedgehog
- Wario
- Wolf
- Zero Suit Samus

Super Smash Bros. Four Newcomers : (~60 total)
- Toad
- Junior
- Kamek
- Dixie Kong
- King K. Krool
- Tingle
- Skull Kid
- Zoroark
- Ridley
- Krystal
- Samurai Goroh
- Micaiah
- Tom Nook
- Little Mac
- Balloon Fighter
- Mach Rider
- Isaac
- Mega Man
- A couple other obscure unexpected additions

Too much?

 

[Weyard]

You know what, you're all so conservative. For all we know, they could be very generous when it comes to how many characters they're going to make playable. Here's my list:

deleted list for space reasons :/

Too much?

That's pretty much my list from the pre-brawl days when I was expecting well over 50 characters. It covers everything that I would want/like. Needs layton though

 

[Steam]

too many newcomers that don't fit... if you're going to add in LOL balloon fighter you can probably put in like... bowser jr first. or make more stages or something.

 

[Chidosengan]

You know what, you're all so conservative. For all we know, they could be very generous when it comes to how many characters they're going to make playable. Here's my list:


Super Smash Bros. Veterans : (all 12; 12 total)
- Captain Falcon
- Donkey Kong
- Fox
- Jigglypuff
- Kirby
- Link
- Luigi
- Mario
- Ness
- Pikachu
- Samus
- Yoshi

Super Smash Bros. Melee Veterans : (all excluding Pichu, Dr. Mario and Roy; 22 total)
- Bowser
- Falco
- Ganondorf
- Ice Climbers
- Marth
- Mewtwo
- Mr. Game & Watch
- Peach
- Zelda/Sheik

Super Smash Bros. Brawl Veterans : (all excluding Toon Link and Snake; 36 total)
- Diddy Kong
- Ike
- King Dedede
- Lucario
- Lucas
- Meta Knight
- Captain Olimar
- Pit
- Red
- R.O.B.
- Sonic the Hedgehog
- Wario
- Wolf
- Zero Suit Samus

Super Smash Bros. Four Newcomers : (~60 total)
- Toad
- Junior
- Kamek
- Dixie Kong
- King K. Krool
- Tingle
- Skull Kid
- Zoroark
- Ridley
- Krystal
- Samurai Goroh
- Micaiah
- Tom Nook
- Little Mac
- Balloon Fighter
- Mach Rider
- Isaac
- Mega Man
- A couple other obscure unexpected additions

Too much?

You expect all of the veterans to comeback, which imo is kinda unrealistic. Also some of your newcomers are outdated, like Isaac should probably be replaced with Mathew, and save your breath on Micaiah.

On a side not, the words "Tom Nook" brings baaaaaaaadddd memories.....

 

[AetherEch0s]

Im sure he intended Bowser JR. to be on that list. He is the only reasonable character missing. I would call that list perfect if it had Layton, whether hes third party or second.

 

[Llumys]

too many newcomers that don't fit... if you're going to add in LOL balloon fighter you can probably put in like... bowser jr first. or make more stages or something.

...
Super Smash Bros. Four Newcomers : (~60 total)
- Toad
- Junior
- Kamek
- Dixie Kong
- King K. Krool
- Tingle
- Skull Kid
- Zoroark
- Ridley
- Krystal
- Samurai Goroh
- Micaiah
- Tom Nook
- Little Mac
- Balloon Fighter
- Mach Rider
- Isaac
- Mega Man
- A couple other obscure unexpected additions
...

I did include him.

Edit: Matthew does seem like a better addition than Isaac, actually. As for Micaiah, ablI really don't care; I think a third slot would be more fitting to a character appearing in an upcoming title or even Eliwood. Hell, thanks to Melee, I wouldn't be surprised if they included Roy as the slower swordsman and sped Ike up.

 

[Arcadenik]

In Brawl, we had Pirate Ship, Summit, Delfino Plaza, and Jungle Japes (though it wasn't a good idea to swim there, LOL).

In SSB4, there could be some new stages where swimming would be put to a good use.

- a Starfy stage (kinda obvious)
- an Ice Climber stage with elements from Balloon Fight and Clu Clu Land thrown into the mix
- Lake Hylia for the Zelda series
- Lake of Rage for the Pokemon series
- Nep-Enut's Domain for the Yoshi series
- Gangplank Galleon for the Donkey Kong series
- Wuhu Island for the Wii Sports series
- Float Islands for the Kirby series

 

[Weyard]

You expect all of the veterans to comeback, which imo is kinda unrealistic. Also some of your newcomers are outdated, like Isaac should probably be replaced with Mathew, and save your breath on Micaiah.

On a side not, the words "Tom Nook" brings baaaaaaaadddd memories.....

By that logic we shouldn't have gotten Marth period amirite?

Isaac is the Main character of the series. He is still present as an npc in Dark Dawn and will be present as an npc in the 3ds Golden Sun game announced at e3.

 

[Chidosengan]

Also.... Megaman? While I would really love to see him, I wouldn't count 3rd parties in just yet. Remember: Snake was only in cause Sakurai and Kojima are buddies. Sonic kinda got in by luck and resistance at the last minute.

 

[Chidosengan]

By that logic we shouldn't have gotten Marth period amirite?

Isaac is the Main character of the series. He is still present as an npc in Dark Dawn and will be present as an npc in the 3ds Golden Sun game announced at e3.

But we got Ike, who's game was the latest one at the time. Right now the newest game is FE12, a remake of FE2, which features Marth. Not only that, Marth is a fan favorite.

On the Isaac one, you got Dark Dawn, which is readily available on shelves and features Mathew, and GS1/2, which you would have to dig online to get. Which would Nintendo see more profitable to advertise?

Besides, the two dudes are identical.

 

[AetherEch0s]

Marth should be the only FE rep for that reason. The other 2 were just for advertisement purposes. Marths game got remade, so he should be the only remaining rep.

 

[Llumys]

Matthew does seem like a better addition than Isaac, actually. As for Micaiah, ablI really don't care; I think a third slot would be more fitting to a character appearing in an upcoming title or even Eliwood. Hell, thanks to Melee, I wouldn't be surprised if they included Roy as the slower swordsman and sped Ike up.

Just making that's seen.

Anyway, since I just found out that Isaac is returning in the 3DS installment and that there is no new original Fire Emblem games to be released anytime soon, I think Isaac, Marth and Ike would suffice.

 

[Weyard]

But we got Ike, who's game was the latest one at the time. Right now the newest game is FE12, a remake of FE2, which features Marth. Not only that, Marth is a fan favorite.

Isaac is a fan favorite as well? Pitiful argument. No chance of Matthew getting in before Isaac. If Isaac had joined us in Brawl, then it would make sense to add Matthew now, but for first character status, Isaac is the only choice for GS rep.

 

[Arcadenik]

@ "Marth/Isaac are the first protagonists of their respective series so they should get in first"

Ness says hi.

Ninten was the first hero of Mother 1. By that logic, Ninten should have gotten in before Ness.

 

[Weyard]

@ "Marth/Isaac are the first protagonists of their respective series so they should get in first"

Ness says hi.

Ninten was the first hero of Mother 1. By that logic, Ninten should have gotten in before Ness.

Other than the fact that Ninten had no personality and Mother 2/Earthbound was far more popular than Mother1.

Dark Dawn was terrible compared to TBS and TLA so I don't think Matthew will win against Isaac in a popularity vote.

 

[Llumys]

I imagine they included Ness over Ninten because they're so damn similar.

... wouldn't that apply to Issac and Matthew, as well?

 

[Chidosengan]

Isaac is a fan favorite as well? Pitiful argument. No chance of Matthew getting in before Isaac. If Isaac had joined us in Brawl, then it would make sense to add Matthew now, but for first character status, Isaac is the only choice for GS rep.

You still got to look at the marketing point of view. DD will still be available when SSB4 comes out, and ninty can still make some profit from the potential new fans. While only used copies of GS1 and 2 exists only on ebay, which Ninty doesn't get any money from.

 

[Weyard]

I imagine they included Ness over Ninten because they're so damn similar.

... wouldn't that apply to Issac and Matthew, as well?

The main difference being that Isaac has had 2 speaking roles out of his 3 games, while Matthew has yet to speak. History shows that if Matthew appears in DD's sequel, he should speak and reveal his personality as was done for Isaac in TLA. At this point, Isaac is a much more interesting due to having an actual personality and nature. Otherwise they are basically clones.