[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Steam]

Charizard was missized in the anime. just look at the original intro... charizard was like 40 feet tall

 

[Arcadenik]

Ridley cannot be just be "a little bit larger" than Samus in Smash if he is resized. He has to be "a little bit larger" than Bowser, the largest playable character we have in Brawl, in Smash if we have to maintain the "Ridley is much bigger than Samus" scenario that has been drilled into our heads since Super Metroid (1994) or since Metroid Prime (2002). If Ridley is in, I expect him to be able to grasp around Samus's body with just one hand like he did in all Metroid games, especially Other M (which was inspired by Brawl).

 

[vVv Rapture]

Ridley cannot be just be "a little bit larger" than Samus in Smash if he is resized. He has to be "a little bit larger" than Bowser, the largest playable character we have in Brawl, in Smash if we have to maintain the "Ridley is much bigger than Samus" scenario that has been drilled into our heads since Super Metroid (1994) or since Metroid Prime (2002). If Ridley is in, I expect him to be able to grasp around Samus's body with just one hand like he did in all Metroid games, especially Other M (which was inspired by Brawl).

I meant in terms of height, but even still, he doesn't have to be immense, and obviously they wouldn't do that if he was added. They'd scale him to what works. They already did it for the Melee trailer.

 

[Starphoenix]

I wish they'd announce a new Smash so I could foresee an end to all of these pointless arguments...

 

[Arcadenik]

Charizard was missized in the anime. just look at the original intro... charizard was like 40 feet tall

No. Charizard was not 40 feet tall in the intro. That wasn't even Charizard. That was a clip from that old episode where Ash, Misty, Brock, and Team Rocket got stranded on an island full of giant Pokemon... and in the end, it turned out those giant Pokemon are really robots for a theme park featuring giant Pokemon.

 

[Arcadenik]

I wish they'd announce a new Smash so I could foresee an end to all of these pointless arguments...

And I foresee more pointless arguments for SSB5.

 

[vVv Rapture]

I thought that was the giant Dragonite episode.

 

[Fawfulcopter]

No. Charizard was not 40 feet tall in the intro. That wasn't even Charizard. That was a clip from that old episode where Ash, Misty, Brock, and Team Rocket got stranded on an island full of giant Pokemon... and in the end, it turned out those giant Pokemon are really robots for a theme park featuring giant Pokemon.

Also, every pokemon is missized in the anime. Take Dragonite.
It's 7'3" in the games; larger than the average human male, for sure, but...here's a picture of dragonite from the anime.

Yeaaaaaah.
That's not a perspective trick, BTW. Here's a smallish pic from the same episode.

 

[Gallowglass]

This is rather pointless arguement on the sizing of Ridley. If they want to put him in then they would resize him like they did with Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Kirby. Also to note in the original NES Metroid he wasn't that big. This is most likely the size they would make him for SSB4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S3xMS8J3wE
Personally I would rather see him as a boss and he was my favorite boss in brawl to fight.

 

[Arcadenik]

That was only one Dragonite. That one was an anomaly, not the norm among the Dragonite species. We even had a giant Gengar battling a giant Alakazam before they were put to sleep by a giant Jigglypuff. That doesn't mean all of these Pokemon are giants, just those three individual Pokemon are giants. We even had a giant Bulbasaur in one of those Orange Islands episodes. It was just that one individual Pokemon, too.

People need to stop using the NES Metroid to justify Ridley's size. Kraid was small in the NES Metroid, too.

 

[Starphoenix]

And I foresee more pointless arguments for SSB5.

No, because then we won't have as many characters or series to bicker over. :\

 

[Gallowglass]

Why can't we use that in the arguement? It shows that the character's size isn't a factor in the games. It's just like Bowser's size isn't consistant in Mario games. Since Bowser is huge in games like Mario 64 does that mean he shouldn't be playable in Smash?

 

[Arcadenik]

No, because then we won't have as many characters or series to bicker over. :\

Nah... we will just discuss about how X replaced Y, how X should have gotten in over Y, how X should have never been cut, how Y should have never gotten in, how Y is a clone of X, how Series A is unfairly over/under represented compared to Series B, why Series C deserves a character, why Series D doesn't deserve a character, and how we need more females/villains/categories, and how we... *continues rambling*

 

[Barbasol]

I just want to post something here I noticed. All the character with more than one sticker to their name in Brawl:

Baby Bowser
Chibi-Robo
Jill (Drill Dozer)
Kamek
Krystal
Leon (Star Fox)
Panther
Peppy
Ridley
Samurai Goroh
Skull Kid
Slippy
Stafy
Tingle
Toad
Toadsworth
Waluigi

Its interesting to me that a lot of those (save for Toadsworth, and the majority of listed SF characters) are actually quite viable roster choices. Is it a teaser? I doubt it. But it's something to think about. Obviously these are characters held in higher regard.

 

[Arcadenik]

Why can't we use that in the arguement? It shows that the character's size isn't a factor in the games. It's just like Bowser's size isn't consistant in Mario games. Since Bowser is huge in games like Mario 64 does that mean he shouldn't be playable in Smash?

Bowser usually have good reasons for his inconsistent size like Power Stars (64/Galaxy), Shine Sprites (Sunshine), Vibe Scepter (Super Princess Peach), Kamek's magic (Yoshi's Island), even his own hormones (Bowser's Inside Story). While Bowser is usually depicted as a huge monster of varying sizes in the main games, he has a consistent size in the spin-off games and RPG games. Smash can be seen as a Mario spin-off game (as well as a Nintendo crossover fighting game) since it has the most Mario content.

What's a good reason for Ridley's inconsistent size in the Metroid games? And no, technical limitations on the NES doesn't count. And even with his inconsistent size, he was still depicted as a huge dragon who towers over Samus every time they meet since Super Metroid.

 

[augustoflores]

NES Metroid is the first metroid ever. it is also 8 bit. it being the first, it can also be retconned. it being 8 bit means it isn't refined in graphics.
the ridley in NES does not look like any other ridley based on the official artworks... i mean have you seen that art? ridley looks horrid!!

 

[Arcadenik]

NES Metroid is the first metroid ever. it is also 8 bit. it being the first, it can also be retconned. it being 8 bit means it isn't refined in graphics.
the ridley in NES does not look like any other ridley based on the official artworks... i mean have you seen that art? ridley looks horrid!!

Metroid: Zero Mission says hi. Oh, and look here! Ridley has been retconned from a tiny dragon into a H-U-G-E dragon.

 

[augustoflores]

Metroid: Zero Mission says hi. Oh, and look here! Ridley has been retconned from a tiny dragon into a H-U-G-E dragon.

exactly. just like this guy said.

 

[Arcadenik]

exactly. just like this guy said.

So that means Ridley was never intended to be a small dragon. The only reason it was small in the NES game was because of technical limitations but the story dictated that Ridley is a huge dragon. So, if Ridley was never intended to be a small dragon in the first place, why should he be a small dragon in Smash? Especially with Zero Mission establishing that Ridley has always been a giant dragon in the beginning and how Metroid Prime/Other M keeps reinforcing that?

 

[•Col•]

About Olimar... not really. While he is the size of a quarter in the Pikmin universe... he is not small in the other Nintendo universes. When you stop and think about it, everyone from all Nintendo universes are the size of quarters in the Pikmin universe, namely the Distant Planet stage.

Stupid argument.

Charizard is supposed to be 5 times taller than Pikachu. Squirtle is supposed to be a little taller than Pikachu... I'm sure if you compare all of the Pokemon to eachother in Brawl and in the original game, you'll find a lot of discrepancies.

Ridley could be resized.

 

[Ecks]

Smash isn't even canon to anything. Who cares if he gets resized? Why is this so important?

 

[Arcadenik]

Stupid argument.

Charizard is supposed to be 5 times taller than Pikachu. Squirtle is supposed to be a little taller than Pikachu... I'm sure if you compare all of the Pokemon to eachother in Brawl and in the original game, you'll find a lot of discrepancies.

Ridley could be resized.

Pokemon have a lot of size discrepancies in the games. It is canon.

Ridley being a small dragon... is not canon. I don't want a Charizard-sized Ridley like that hack I saw on YouTube. I want Ridley to be the size of a giant Charizard under the Super Mushroom effect... and that is his normal size. I am not asking for a Giga Bowser-sized Ridley either.... -_-

 

[Gallowglass]

My point being is that if the makers of Smash want him then I see no reason why they wouldn't resize him, just like they do with other characters. You guys keep arguing about this and that but with characters like ROB, Olimar, Snake, and Sonic you can't say with 100% confidence that they won't be in. Well, unless it's someone like Missingno or t-shirt guy from No More Heroes.

I would rather talk about possible boss and assist trophies characters.

 

[•Col•]

Pokemon have a lot of size discrepancies in the games. It is canon.

Wat.

By that logic... Wouldn't Ridley having size discrepancies be canon as well then?

 

[Arcadenik]

Wat.

By that logic... Wouldn't Ridley having size discrepancies be canon as well then?

Even with those size discrepancies, Ridley STILL towers over Samus and STILL grabs Samus's whole body with just one hand.

 

[•Col•]

Even with those size discrepancies, Ridley STILL towers over Samus and STILL grabs Samus's whole body with just one hand.

Oh, we're talking about just the games then.

In that case then, as far as I know, the heights of Pokemon have never changed throughout the series. So Charizard should be WAAAAAAY bigger than Pikachu in Brawl, but he isn't. Because they resized him. Because that's what they do.

 

[vVv Rapture]

The reason they'd make him a small dragon is so that he can be playable. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. He obviously can't be a fair character if he's a humongous fighter that takes a bazillion years to take enough damage to die. It needs to be fairly balanced.

 

[Arcadenik]

Oh, we're talking about just the games then.

In that case then, as far as I know, the heights of Pokemon have never changed throughout the series. So Charizard should be WAAAAAAY bigger than Pikachu in Brawl, but he isn't. Because they resized him. Because that's what they do.

There are some examples of Pokemon having different sizes other than their official Pokedex sizes in the games. In Pokemon FireRed/LeafGreen, there is a Magikarp fishing contest where they give prizes to you for catching bigger Magikarp even though the Pokedex officially says they are 2'11" and 22 lbs. In Pokemon Ranger: Guardian Signs, one of the ranger attacks you with a giant Crobat in the Sky Fortress. I also read that in Hey You, Pikachu!, there is a fishing mini-game where Pikachu could occasionally catch larger versions of Pokemon. Have you thought that maybe the official Pokedex stats could be the average stats of these Pokemon? I find it hard to believe all Pokemon species are identical while the humans are not.

 

[Arcadenik]

The reason they'd make him a small dragon is so that he can be playable. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. He obviously can't be a fair character if he's a humongous fighter that takes a bazillion years to take enough damage to die. It needs to be fairly balanced.

How about this... he can be very big but also very light? Not all large characters have to be heavyweights. He could be a very large target who can easily get knocked off the stage because he is very light BUT he can use his wings to fly back to the stage. A glass cannon. Ergo, we can still have a giant Ridley who still towers over Samus without sarcificing his size, strength, and balancing his speed (running speed are fast but attacking speed are slow yet powerful).

 

[vVv Rapture]

How about this... he can be very big but also very light? Not all large characters have to be heavyweights. He could be a very large target who can easily get knocked off the stage because he is very light BUT he can use his wings to fly back to the stage. A glass cannon. Ergo, we can still have a giant Ridley who still towers over Samus without sarcificing his size, strength, and balancing his speed (running speed are fast but attacking speed are slow yet powerful).

To be honest, I think it'd be better if he was weaker and fast, since that would make more sense. Ridley is actually really fast, so if we just toned down his power and made him focus on agility and speed, that'd probably work better. Big and light just doesn't make much sense...or just scale him entirely.

 

[BirthNote]

Hang on, I just read on the last page that Smash is canon. Since when was that true? We could make threads on inconsistencies like Mario shooting fire without a flower, Olimar running around with ONLY 6 Pikmin and hundreds more. Smash has definitely blurred the lines of certain things for the sake of gameplay, so do people honestly think that Ridley would be as big as a giant-Giant Charizard if he was playable?

Someone provided a link about 3 weeks back in which Sakurai spoke of characters being resized for the sake of gameplay. Even if Bowser's size changes and individual Pokemon height can be...rationalized to some, a massive Ridley would be the most obvious flaw of the game. What happens if he's on moving stages like Falcon's? How could he dodge Final smashes? Pokeballs? Assist Trophies? Boss attacks? With the humongous size, he's GUARANTEED to be hit--constantly and effortlessly.

If Ridley makes it in, its very unlikely that he'd have such a size. They'd probably scale him down for the sake of gameplay.

 

[Steam]

yo guys, in brawl ivysaur is exactly as heavy as lucario. Ivysaur weighs 22 pounds. Lucario weighs like 120.

also ivysaur (at a whopping 22 pounds) is a mid heavyweight and is heavier than characters like Mario, Luigi, Peach, Pit, Marth, Zero suit samus, etc.

bulemia FTW?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Ridley cannot be just be "a little bit larger" than Samus in Smash if he is resized.

He sure can.

 

[Kantrip]

Do people forget this or are they just feigning ignorance?

This Bowser could pick you up in one hand if he wanted to. He has been resized. Ridley can do likewise. Sure, he could be the largest character in the game, but by very little if so.

 

[Arcadenik]

He sure can.

Yes, I am aware that they can rescale him down to just a head taller than Samus but that doesn't mean they should do it like that. I don't want Ridley to be that small when he has always towered over Samus and can grab her whole body with just one hand.

Do people forget this or are they just feigning ignorance?

This Bowser could pick you up in one hand if he wanted to. He has been resized. Ridley can do likewise. Sure, he could be the largest character in the game, but by very little if so.

Well, then I guess people just forget or feigning ignorance when it comes to Super Mario Sunshine or Super Mario Galaxy. Do you remember how big Bowser was in Sunshine?

During the boss fight in Sunshine, Bowser was so big he covered almost the whole screen. After the boss fight, Bowser shrunk! And he was back to his normal size. He was about twice the size of Bowser Jr.

During the boss fights in Galaxy, Bowser was so big he covered nearly half of a small planetoid. After the boss fight, Bowser shrunk after he lost the Grand Star! And he was back to his normal size!

In Bowser's Inside Story, he was always in his normal true size but he sometimes grew so big he towered even his own castle and Peach's castle. How did that happen? Because of his hormones being activated by Mario and Luigi inside his body.

Just because Bowser is so big in all those games does not mean they are his true size!!! He was only enhanced by various methods (Power Stars, Vibe Scepter, Kamek's magic, hormones, etc.). And he ALWAYS shrunk to his normal true size after he was defeated!

I am sorry, guys. But Bowser's giant size is NOT his true size. He was only enhanced. Giga Bowser shows that! Ridley's giant size IS his true size. He should not be just one head taller than Samus. He should be at least three to four heads taller than Samus to maintance the "Ridley towers over Samus" perspective.

 

[Sonic Poke]

Why on Earth would you ever consider Adam over Ridley or even Dark Samus? Yeah, he's important, but he's not a primary candidate. That's like making the Lakitu from Super Mario 64 or Rosalina from Galaxy playable because they were important, too.

A) Terrible argument. Every character needs to be resized a least a bit for it to work. Olimar is like 2 centimeters tall, but you don't seem to have a problem with that. Kirby is over half the size of Bowser in Brawl, but if they went with their game appearances, Bowser's foot would be bigger than Kirby's entire body two times over. People seriously need to stop with this argument, it's stupid, illogical, and disproven (Charizard was in Brawl and the thing is ****ing huge in game).

B) So?

C) I'm pretty sure that you've never played a Metroid game then, because Ridley does not fly the entire time in all of his boss battles, nor is he required to. That's like saying no Pokemon should be legal because they are in turn-based games and would take too long to attack or move with time allotted.

EDIT: Ridley and Dark Samus > Manthony > Tom Nook > Adam. Adam's a good character in Metroid, but not in Smash.

It is Good! It is Good! You won! I was wrong about Ridley ... but what do you think of this:

Characters:

-12 Veterans 64
-11 Veterans Melee
-14 Veterans Brawl (Less Toon Link and Lucario)
-Daisy (Peach different movements, not Necessarily inspired by Mario sports, your Final Smash Could Be a sandstorm)
-Waluigi (Mario Tennis Movements based on, ITS Final Smash would be "playing tennis alone," where he Plays characters on one side of the arena to another in sequence, Providing a series of combos)
-Rockets (main villains of the Pokemon series, with an updated form of triple coating the Final Smash)
-Megaman (original third character That I think has a realistic chance of appearing, not yet thought of destroying any final)
-Bonk (The Child of the basement smoke here eat large chunks of his flesh, to reach a wide, and destroying all before it. It's your Final Smash)
-Vaati (He Could Become a giant eye and shoot fire at the enemy)
-Meowth (the mascot PKMN smoke here else use your payday harder to predict the final smash combos)
-Isaac (his current bout assist trophy would b his Final Smash)
-Samurai Goroh (Fire Stingray b would his Final Smash)
-Lyn (Final Smash: The screen darkens, the Focus and then teleported Tues Lyn, she Delivers a single powerful attack focused on the next opponent)
-Ninten (PK Techno)
-Dixie Kong (not thought of a Final Smash)
-K. King Roll (Something like that only much shorter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41J02KoKEVE)
-Bowser Jr. (though I do not agree with him previously, I started to play New Super Mario Bros.., And saw That he posses a big role in the game, Sue Could Be Final Smash like: this video go to http:// www.youtube.com / watch? v = 2VIuctmMCI0 3:35)
-Adam Malkovich (thought nothing for his final smash)
-Ridley (thought nothing for his final smash)
-Knukle Joe (Something similar to his current role to assist trophy)
-Prince Fluff (Kirby's friend instead of absorbing the Standard Special Move, He Could absorb the Side Special Move, the still not think of a final smash)
-Medusa (a huge eye would applaud at the bottom of the screen and would turn on all trophy for 15 seconds, so We Could Catch Them and Throw Them Into the Abyss)
-Zoroark (thought nothing for his final smash)

Assist Trophies:
-All in Brawl than those noted above as playable
-Rosalina
-Tails
-Midna
-Ghost from Luigi's Mansion
-Tikis
-Kraid

Pokeballs:

-Chikorita
-Mew
-Celebi
-Bellossom
-Bonsly
-Eletrodo
-Entei
-Deoxys
-Gardevoir
-Goldeen
-Groudon
-Gulpin
-Ho-Oh
-Jirachi
-Lugia
-Piplup
-Moltres
-Zapados
-Lapras
-Onix
-Snorlax
-Starmie
-Munchlax
-Togepi
-Wobbuffet
-Torterra
-Rapidash
-Taurus
-Suicune
-Weezing

Items:

-Gooey Bomb
-Cracker Launcher
-Crates and Barrels
-Banana Peel
-Bumper
-PitFall
-Franklin Badge
-Smoke Ball
-Superspicy Curry
-Goldem Hammer
-Beam Sword
-Fire Flower
-Ice Flower
-Freezie
-Home-Run Bat
-Party Ball
-Super Mushroom
-Poison Mushroom
-Metal Box
-Smart Bomb
-Dragoon
-Team Healer
-Capsule
-Sandbag
-Food
-Maxim Tomato
-Starman
-Warp Star
-Timer
-Lightning
-Lip’s Stick
-Fan
-Star Rod
-Hammer
-Bob-omb
-Ray Gun
-Super Scope
-Motion-Sensor Bomb
-Deku Nut
-Hothead
-Mr. Saturn
-Green Shell
-Red Shell
-Blue Shell
-Spring
-Unira
-Soccer Ball
-Screw Attack
-Ocarina of time
-Spring Mushroom
-Vanish Box
-Mega Mushroom

 

[Big-Cat]

You know, maybe Ridley being big isn't that bad of an idea to begin with. He'd be tough as hell to balance, especially if he's Sentinel-size, but a big Ridley would be unprecedented for Smash. I mean really, you have a highly requested character with plenty of potential to truly stand out from the rest. What's not to like?

 

[augustoflores]

that is one of the worst lists i have ever seen...

alright, now that i regained my composure,........ why are there zero pokemon from generation V in the pokeballs list? you know what? i don't want to know.
there's so many things to say... i'd rather just leave it at that.

 

[refugee]

Just read and I agree with the majority of it. The article does raise an interesting question though. Do we change up the roster to the point that we change up who's in the game in the name of diversity?

That was one of the main things behind MvC3's roster (and Megaman's exclusion). Could we see a repeat with Smash. If so, who would be considered the "staples" of the Smash series?

Off the top of my head; the original 12, Marth, Bowser, Peach, Zelda, and characters that are the only representation of their franchise.

 

[Steam]

you're willing to put characters like prince fluff in ahead of tink and lucario? that's not going to happen lmao. even if they're lower on the priority list, they won't add in 20 new characters and cut lucario and tink. if the only added like 5? maybe.