[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Dynamo68]

My pick for a new character would be none other than(drum roll please).............

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll164/gamefreak16236/KnuckleJoe.jpg

KNUCKLE JOE FROM KIRBY!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Dynamo68]

Oh, and by the way, I'm saying this on behalf of Gatlin (who is offline for the moment). I sincerely apologize for making a separate thread related to this. Now I'm part of the whole rumor-mongering, and I'm sure glad to join the whole forum.

 

[ToddCam]

Some observations.

One thing I have observed in these discussions (having been around for the full pre-Brawl experience) is that people seem to have forgotten the flaws from Melee. Melee did not have a balanced roster. Captain Falcon, Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik... and yet so many seem to think that Brawl is unbelievably unbalanced.

How do you achieve balance anyway? What is balance? I obviously am aware that some characters are inherently better than others, but can you even get a true definition of balance when you have a very specific version of your game in mind? No items, flat stage, etc. Fans are too self-centered, and think their approach to the game is the only one that should be considered. The creators should strive for balance, obviously, but there will never be a way to be truly balanced, especially if each player's subjective view is taken into account.

With the fan rosters, I applaud those trying to appeal beyond their desires, and to try to use reason. There's too much "this character sucks" or "this character is awesome" for most fan rosters. I think the most obvious example of these are the Star Fox and Jigglypuff debates. Jigglypuff is unique, yet people who hate it think, of course it's going to be cut. And those reasonable enough to think Krystal isn't the embodiment of all that's unholy almost always look to Wolf to be cut first, even though Falco is so much more obviously a "clone." (Some even say he's not a clone... this is not a defensible statement.)

 

[majora_787]

I liked your list, but was missing Jigglypuff, who will hardly go out, Wolf, who will be missed, Dixie, who has a lot of fans, and why add Mewtwo and Lucario take? not fair! Ridley is too big, why not Adam Malkovich? Ray is very small. And sorry if I seem noob but who is Andy?

... YOu don't appear to hear the words coming out of your mouth. Let me assist you with this.

1. Lucario was added and Mewtwo was taken out. That wasn't fair. If anything, this is fixing that problem.

2. You clearly were talking entirely out your *** on the Ridley comment. Because you essentially went, "let's add a 'major' character who was minor in one game and sort of major in another, has little to no potential, and in general isn't that popular... instead of the main recurring antagonist who could easily be resized and rescaled like every other character in the Super Smash Bros. franchise.

 

[Beninator]

Well I guess I might as well make a list, considering that's the cool thing to do as of late:

Rapture's Roster 5/30/11 – Total 48 characters

Super Mario
-Mario
-Luigi
-Peach
-Bowser
-Bowser Jr.

The Legend of Zelda
-Link
-Ganondorf (de-clone)
-Zelda/Sheik
-Toon Link
-Majora (Skull Kid)

Donkey Kong
-Donkey Kong
-Diddy Kong
-King K. Rool

Metroid
-Samus/ZSS
-Ridley
-Dark Samus

Star Fox
-Fox
-Falco
-Wolf (de-clone)
-Krystal

Kirby
-Kirby
-King Dedede
-Metaknight

Pokemon
-Pikachu
-Mewtwo
-Pokemon Trainer (2nd Gen)
-Zoroark
-Deoxys

Fire Emblem
-Marth
-Ike
-Hector

Other Series
-Captain Falcon
-Samurai Goroh
-Captain Olimar
-Wario
-Ness
-Yoshi

Retro
-Ice Climbers
-ROB
-Little Mac
-Pit
-Mr. Game & Watch

New Franchises
-Isaac
-Ray MK II

Third Party
-Snake
-Sonic
-Megaman
-Phoenix Wright

This looks great to me, but you left out Roy, Dr. Mario (two of my favorites from Melee), and I want Sly Cooper, Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, and maybe Silver under Third Party.

I really want to have Dr. Octogonapus. He is awesome. Unfortunately, it's not going to happen.

 

[vVv Rapture]

This looks great to me, but you left out Roy, Dr. Mario (two of my favorites from Melee), and I want Sly Cooper, Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, and maybe Silver under Third Party.

I really want to have Dr. Octogonapus. He is awesome. Unfortunately, it's not going to happen.

I was never a fan of Roy, and Dr. Mario is just a clone. If they want, they can just give Mario some of Dr. Mario's abilities or stats or something, and then give him a costume change.

And I'd never, ever, ever, ever, ever add Sly, Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, Silver, and the other guy.

 

[ryuu seika]

Yeah, those are the sort of third party characters several fans want but nobody would ever believe would actually make it in. I mean, Eggman, really?

 

[User33]

-Wolf (de-clone)

He would have to be a clone in the first place for him to be de-cloned.

 

[Jaklub]

Yeah, those are the sort of third party characters several fans want but nobody would ever believe would actually make it in. I mean, Eggman, really?

lol Eggman is the main villain of the Sonic franchise and appeared before any furry in the series different than Sonic.
I can name dozens of characters who would fit the "I mean, really" reaction better.

However, the most ridiculous thing from Beninator's post is Sly. He never appeared outside of PlayStation consoles.

Oh, and I agree with ToddCam in 100%.

 

[vVv Rapture]

He would have to be a clone in the first place for him to be de-cloned.

Sorry, that was meant for Falco, not Wolf.

@Jaklub: Regardless, Sonic himself is fine. We don't need more than Sonic, and we definitely don't need Eggman of all characters.

 

[Jaklub]

@Jaklub: Regardless, Sonic himself is fine. We don't need more than Sonic, and we definitely don't need Eggman of all characters.

I'm not saying that Sonic will get more reps. Personally, I would like it, but I'm aware that it won't happen. What I was responding to is "I mean, Eggman, really?", which is weird, because the mustached man is the very second recurring character in Sonic series.

 

[vVv Rapture]

I'm not saying that Sonic will get more reps. Personally, I would like it, but I'm aware that it won't happen. What I was responding to is "I mean, Eggman, really?", which is weird, because the mustached man is the very second recurring character in Sonic series.

I guess, but overall he still seems like an odd choice. And I'd honestly have that "wtf eggman" reaction if he was in Brawl with Sonic.

 

[Steam]

Ah, damn, I should've seen that. Oh well.

Also, I don't think having a large fan base greatly affects a character's chance of inclusion.

it's a fanservice game so that's pretty much the biggest factor. it's why the mario and pokemon series have so many and Fzero has one in brawl

edit- and lucario replacing mewtwo wasn't much a of a crime... he was a much more popular character then. there is 0 chance mewtwo will be in ahead of lucario at this point now that mewtwo is losing even more fanboys to adulthood.

 

[Big-Cat]

He would have to be a clone in the first place for him to be de-cloned.

But really, what's so unique about him that sets him from other characters? He doesn't play like Fox and Falco, but what gives him that edge in appeal over other characters.

And I don't know why, but Wolf with MvC3 Jill's moveset would be awesome. He already has a feral crouch. The only problem is that he'd pretty much be not all that faithful to the games, but idk.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

i think Layton is pretty much guaranteed. His series is more than popular enough now, even more so than Fire Emblem was at the time of Melee's release. Most of the people that will play SSB4 have played or heard of a Professor Layton game, and if nothing more, im sure they have seen the a picture of him to the point that he is familiar.
The whole lack of moveset argument doesn't apply, as he has used many contraptions and even a sword in-game. Theres plenty of potential.

I like you, kid. You got moxie.

Layton is 3rd party, but he's still my #1 dark horse character.

 

[smash64]

i hope some info for ssb4 comes out soon..

 

[augustoflores]

apparently, Retro Studios is working on a project "everyone wants them to do."
http://paulgalenetwork.com/home/201...n-a-project-everyone-wants-us-to-do-on-wii-2/

personally, i would have wanted them to revive FZero buut,
http://www.zeldainformer.com/2011/0...project-cafe-title-is-eternal-darkness-2.html
zeldainformer states that it is fact by word of mouth (lol word of mouth does not make facts) that they are working on Eternal Darkness 2

also, a year ago, http://kotaku.com/5473079/a-new-eternal-darkness-trademark-whats-that-about
kotaku confirmed nintendo renewed the eternal darkness trademark.

... thoughts?

 

[Gallowglass]

Wow I haven’t been here in awhile. I thought I would return with some new ideas about SSB4. I want to talk about other aspects other then character roosters. I’ll post them separately so that it won’t create a gigantic post.

First up

Stage Builder
I believe the stage builder has much more potential then shown in brawl. There are a lot of aspects that could be added to allow you to have really cool custom levels. It wouldn’t take as much space if they reuse the items in Adventure mode. Here are some things that can be done.

- Map Sizing: Able to pick the exact height and width of the arena
- Overlapping parts: This works with the online editor and gives a lot more options
- Moving parts in the cell: So small items don’t have to be center and can be adjusted
- Rotating Items
- Choose water/lava floors
- NPC enemies can appear

Object List
You should have various items from different games that allow you to mix and match them. They should have scenery items and backgrounds of all games. This is some action items that could be added

Mario
- Invisible Blocks
- Pow Blocks
- Bullet Bill Cannons
- Piranha plants
- Breakable blocks
- Thwomps
Zelda
- Whirlwinds
- Cuttable grass
- Beambos
Starfox
- Arwing platforms
- Gun torrets
Metroid
- The aliens that looks like a croissant and if you freeze them they can be used as a platform
-
Kid Icarus
- Healing Pool
- Tentacle claws
Generic
- Fire/ lava blocks
- Bumpers

I would like to know what other options can be added.

 

[Beninator]

lol Eggman is the main villain of the Sonic franchise and appeared before any furry in the series different than Sonic.
I can name dozens of characters who would fit the "I mean, really" reaction better.

However, the most ridiculous thing from Beninator's post is Sly. He never appeared outside of PlayStation consoles.

Oh, and I agree with ToddCam in 100%.

Hey! These were dreams. I know they have no chance of happening.

 

[mystery_dungeon]

apparently, Retro Studios is working on a project "everyone wants them to do."
http://paulgalenetwork.com/home/201...n-a-project-everyone-wants-us-to-do-on-wii-2/

personally, i would have wanted them to revive FZero buut,
http://www.zeldainformer.com/2011/0...project-cafe-title-is-eternal-darkness-2.html
zeldainformer states that it is fact by word of mouth (lol word of mouth does not make facts) that they are working on Eternal Darkness 2

also, a year ago, http://kotaku.com/5473079/a-new-eternal-darkness-trademark-whats-that-about
kotaku confirmed nintendo renewed the eternal darkness trademark.

... thoughts?

While Retro may be working on something everyone wants, Eternal Darkness 2 isn't one of them.

 

[augustoflores]

While Retro may be working on something everyone wants, Eternal Darkness 2 isn't one of them.

oh thanks for that myst! i knew word of mouth was not fact!! lol

that shines the way for FZERO, Mother, and Smash!

 

[Big-Cat]

I can see F-Zero happening and maybe Smash if Nintendo has that much confidence in them and no one else is worthy of the task, but MOTHER? That would definitely be quite the challenge. Especially if it goes back to how the first two games were romanticized America from a Japanese perspective.

 

[augustoflores]

im playing mother 3 right now! i wish this song was in brawl http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPvuoI672IU
im at the part where the Mr. Saturn cleans your courage badge and gives you a franklin badge... tried to kill claus... i wound up getting killed... gonna try again after leveling up.

i really want to see earthbound's world in a non pixel environment... too bad itoi doesn't want to do any more.

 

[Big-Cat]

At the same time, he has said a number of times that he wouldn't mind if someone else did it. IIRC, he said he wanted to be the player the next time around.

 

[augustoflores]

lol... just checked... anthem of destruction and wasteful anthem are pretty much the same thing... it is in unfounded revenge/ smashing song of praise....... guess i never noticed since i didn't play mother 3 at the time of my training of brawl...

 

[ryuu seika]

Donkey Kong Racing.

I know it won't be and chances are microsoft would throw a fit if it was but I just thought I'd suggest the idea.

 

[brawler123]

I would like to see Mewtwo and Roy back, Geno playable and a new subspace emissary.

 

[Barbasol]

Oh that'd be quite nice, Retro Studios is a fantastic developer. Also nice to consider a western company in development, it might be easier to get our voices heard.

 

[BlueSuperSonic1]

Just because a lot of people have been posting their ideas for rosters recently, I'm going to post my ideas. My roster is pretty conservative though, so tell me what you guys think.
Super Mario
Mario (have Dr.Mario as a set of alternate costumes)
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr. (not too sure about him)
Legend of Zelda
Link
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf
Toon/Young Link (Toon Link's more recent, but Young Link's getting his game remade, so I'm not sure in regards to who is more likely)
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K.Rool (Main antagonist of Donkey Kong series; popular)
Dixie Kong (Very popular and intended to be in Brawl)
Mario Sub-series
Yoshi
Wario
Metroid
Samus/Zero Suit Samus
Ridley (Main antagonist and popular)
Pokemon
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer Red
Mewtwo (Was unique in Melee and intended to be in Brawl)
Lucario (He's pretty popular and unique so I think he should stay)
Zoroark/Victini (They seem to be the most popular 5th gen representatives so far)
Kirby
Kirby
King Dedede
Meta Knight
Mother/Earthbound
Ness
Lucas
Star Fox
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal (I don't like her, but she seems popular)
F-Zero
Captain Falcon
Fire Emblem
Marth
Roy (Was in Melee and intended to be in Brawl, also pretty popular)
Ike
Retro
Ice Climbers
R.O.B.
Mr. Game and Watch
Kid Icarus
Pit
Pikmin
Olimar
Third Party
Solid Snake
Sonic the Hedgehog
Megaman (He's very popular and has had a lot of games on Nintendo consoles.)

Well, there's my idea for a roster. Tell me what you guys think.

 

[DarkShadow20]

Really, SSB would be the only game that "everyone wants them to do".

 

[Sonic Poke]

... YOu don't appear to hear the words coming out of your mouth. Let me assist you with this.

1. Lucario was added and Mewtwo was taken out. That wasn't fair. If anything, this is fixing that problem.

2. You clearly were talking entirely out your *** on the Ridley comment. Because you essentially went, "let's add a 'major' character who was minor in one game and sort of major in another, has little to no potential, and in general isn't that popular... instead of the main recurring antagonist who could easily be resized and rescaled like every other character in the Super Smash Bros. franchise.

Excuse me, I will defend:

1. I mentioned that back Mewtwo and Lucario would eliminate unfair because Mewtwo already has been replaced by Lucario, and it was not fair. So to complete our staff of injustice, I would not see either of them in the next smash, but Zoroark for outwitting the two (I forgot to quote it in the list)

2. Adam Malkovich was my choice playable of Metroid, just do not like to see Ridley for a few basic reasons: a) it is too large, b) he is one of my favorite bosses, c) would not want to control a character who is almost fly every time, it would be very unfair.

 

[vVv Rapture]

2. Adam Malkovich was my choice playable of Metroid, just do not like to see Ridley for a few basic reasons: a) it is too large, b) he is one of my favorite bosses, c) would not want to control a character who is almost fly every time, it would be very unfair.

Why on Earth would you ever consider Adam over Ridley or even Dark Samus? Yeah, he's important, but he's not a primary candidate. That's like making the Lakitu from Super Mario 64 or Rosalina from Galaxy playable because they were important, too.

A) Terrible argument. Every character needs to be resized a least a bit for it to work. Olimar is like 2 centimeters tall, but you don't seem to have a problem with that. Kirby is over half the size of Bowser in Brawl, but if they went with their game appearances, Bowser's foot would be bigger than Kirby's entire body two times over. People seriously need to stop with this argument, it's stupid, illogical, and disproven (Charizard was in Brawl and the thing is ****ing huge in game).

B) So?

C) I'm pretty sure that you've never played a Metroid game then, because Ridley does not fly the entire time in all of his boss battles, nor is he required to. That's like saying no Pokemon should be legal because they are in turn-based games and would take too long to attack or move with time allotted.

EDIT: Ridley and Dark Samus > Manthony > Tom Nook > Adam. Adam's a good character in Metroid, but not in Smash.

 

[Barbasol]

^ QFT

The Ridley size argument... ugh... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1b3WTeosOI

Look at his size in Melee. It's workable.

 

[Arcadenik]

@ Rapture

For your information, Charizard is 5 feet 7 inches tall and weighs at 199.5 pounds. Really, that is not ****ing huge. He isn't any bigger than me. Does anyone here really play the Pokemon games or at least visit either Bulbapedia or Serebii? There is absolutely no comparison in size between Charizard and Ridley.

 

[Arcadenik]

Really, SSB would be the only game that "everyone wants them to do".

Quote for truth. This is the only thing that makes the most sense. Really? Let's be honest... not everyone cares about Star Fox, F-Zero, or even MOTHER/EarthBound.

 

[Steam]

mewtwo wasn't replaced directly... they just ran out of time on him lmao... he was intended to be in...

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Really, SSB would be the only game that "everyone wants them to do".

The actual answer would be an original IP.

Unless by "everyone" they just mean "a bunch of people," in which case it could be a bunch of things.

 

[vVv Rapture]

@ Rapture

For your information, Charizard is 5 feet 7 inches tall and weighs at 199.5 pounds. Really, that is not ****ing huge. He isn't any bigger than me. Does anyone here really play the Pokemon games or at least visit either Bulbapedia or Serebii? There is absolutely no comparison in size between Charizard and Ridley.

He's still a big *** ****ing dragon. I guess I figured he's bigger than he is because of how big Ash is in the anime, and Ash isn't very tall which I forget.

Either way, the size argument is still stupid. Olimar already destroys it.

 

[Arcadenik]

Well, Ash is a little boy. Of course, a 5'7" dragon is gonna look much bigger when standing next to a 10-year-old child. Hell, even a 5'7" adult human is gonna look much bigger when standing next to a 10-year-old child.

About Olimar... not really. While he is the size of a quarter in the Pikmin universe... he is not small in the other Nintendo universes. When you stop and think about it, everyone from all Nintendo universes are the size of quarters in the Pikmin universe, namely the Distant Planet stage.

It is gonna look weird seeing how small Ridley is when standing next to Samus or how big Samus is when standing next to Ridley if Ridley is playable in Smash, given how it is always depicted in this scenario in all the Metroid games (except the NES one but that's retconned in the remake): a giant Ridley looming over a tiny Samus. LOL

 

[vVv Rapture]

Well, Ash is a little boy. Of course, a 5'7" dragon is gonna look much bigger when standing next to a 10-year-old child. Hell, even a 5'7" adult human is gonna look much bigger when standing next to a 10-year-old child.

About Olimar... not really. While he is the size of a quarter in the Pikmin universe... he is not small in the other Nintendo universes. When you stop and think about it, everyone from all Nintendo universes are the size of quarters in the Pikmin universe, namely the Distant Planet stage.

It is gonna look weird seeing how small Ridley is when standing next to Samus or how big Samus is when standing next to Ridley if Ridley is playable in Smash, given how it is always depicted in this scenario in all the Metroid games (except the NES one but that's retconned in the remake): a giant Ridley looming over a tiny Samus. LOL

That still avoids the point that they are all different sizes from their individual franchises and have to be resized to fit the Brawl roster. Olimar is very small. Mario is not as small. Bowser is not as small. No one else is that small. Resizing has to happen.

And, well, that's what has to happen to make it work. Ridley is big, but we've had instances, like you've said, when Samus and Ridley aren't completely different in size. Ridley is clearly larger, but he can be resized a bit. In Metroid Prime, when he fights on the ground, yeah he's much larger, but if he was just scaled down a bit, he could easily be just a bit larger than Samus like he was in the Melee opening.

The fact remains that anybody can be resized, and the fact that they need to be to be playable shouldn't make them any less deserving of a spot. Plus, it's subjective to say it'd be weird, as I still find Pikachu being not that much smaller than DK a bit weird sometimes. Hell, just Olimar being as big as he is is rather awkward to begin with.